70 ms·
iPhone X
- pluma 9y agoInteresting how they decided to already publish the article although they have nothing more than the teaser but no actual content. > So what does a decade of iPhone innovation look like? > Developing… Please refresh for updates.
- potrebitel 9y agoDeveloping… Please refresh for updates. Obviously the "hype" for a new iphone is still up & running since there is a thread for not yet officially announced device...
- thsowers 9y ago> Obviously the "hype" for a new iphone is still up & running since there is a thread for not yet officially announced device... Doesn't Apple announcing it at their "Special Event" count as an officially announced device?
- potrebitel 9y agoIt does, but at the moment the post was put online, there is nothing official, except the name. Hence "this is iphone X" looks like a placeholder for a future event. "Please refresh for updates" Besides there is a new thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229902 ) for the same subject - nothing offcially started, yet several threads for it. Anyway, it will be fun to see if this one will hit 1000+ comments :)
- JBReefer 9y agoEvery refresh is an additional set of ad impressions
- pound 9y agoDevice itself is announced, that news is exactly only that. Right now on apple stream you can see them going through specs
- capkutay 9y agoI have a suspicion that removing the home button and relying on swipe-interactions might be a step back in usability for the non-tech savvy people who have made up a large share of iPhone users.
- thsowers 9y agoThe presenter claims that once you've tried it for the first time you will realize that it was the best way. I agree with you and think that it's quite an assumption. Sure the homebutton may of created problems when it needed repair etc, but I really love having actual hardware buttons on a phone.
- sosborn 9y agoiPhone 7 solved the broken home button and to me it is perfect.
- izacus 9y agoI had to disable double-tap for multitasking (and bunch of other gestures) on my family iPads because they caused a lot of issues with older users. I wonder if there's going to be an accessibility feature to make it more friendly to people who have issues differentiating between "swipe up", "swipe up from bottom", "swipe up from bottom and pause" and other overloaded gestures.
- addicted 9y agoUnder accessibility iOS already has a floating menu button, that a lot of people, especially outside the US, enable. It actually works very well, and I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing iPhones sold with it enabled.
- simonklitj 9y agoAny idea why people outside the US use this feature more often?
- rukittenme 9y agoThey put that stupid black thing at the top of the phone...
- balls187 9y agoUnsure why this was downvoted, but that black bar at the top really ruins the "full screen" effect.
- seanalltogether 9y agoThey just showed a full screen video and the black bar was blocking part of the video. This looks really bad while demoing with views animated in real time.
- Grazester 9y agoThe Essential phone has a dot in the middle but The Verge review said that you get used to it and it becomes invisible essentially.
- r3bl 9y agoWhy would you want to get used to missing a part of the content displayed in full screen?
- Grazester 9y agoContent doesn't go missing that's why. When you are watching a video that part of the screen is not used on Android. The area would be a black bar at the top/side and Android doesn't put anything in that part of the screen(middle) when in an app or homescreen
- r3bl 9y agoI would have nothing against it if that's the case, but that's not what they showed in the demo.
- 9y ago
- Tomte 9y agoFirst thought: how well can they discern in the mail app whether I wanted to scroll down or go to the home screen? I probably have to swipe carefully from the very bottom or stay away from the bottom?
- hbosch 9y agoThe bar is as low as today's iPhone home button. I have a strong feeling you will hardly ever reach it by accident, considering scrolling from a point that low is unnatural and uncomfortable. Also, there is always a big obvious bar down there.
- pfisch 9y agoThis is what it looks like when people game HN. An article with no content submitted 3 minutes ago has 24 Upvotes. Seems legit... Now it has 32 upvotes in the last 30 seconds... 38 now. 41... 44. These are less than 30 second intervals. 48 55
- aetherson 9y agoPeople want to discuss the phone here on HN, and we need some article to do that with.
- weirdstuff 9y agoNeither one of you can know for sure. Could be a bit of both.
- pfisch 9y agoYeah I'm sure techcrunch has nothing to do with this...
- aphextron 9y agoIts not really about the article. We’re all watching the live event and wanting to talk about it.
- bspn 9y agoFace ID. I'd swear this was satire if I wasn't watching it with my own eyes.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoCCC hack of face id arriving in 5..4..3...
- sloreti 9y agoFace data is never sent to server, stored on device.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoTrue, but your face data is also saved on any photo anybody might have of you. It's not that hard to generate a 3d model from that.
- theshrike79 9y ago"not that hard" to whom? A state operator doing a targeted attack, most likely not. Local police? No fucking way. Random phone thief? Don't make me laugh. And people seem to actively "forget" that this is a learning model, getting better with every unlock. Just like TouchID, but better.
- saagarjha 9y agoThey talked about how masks can't fool it, so I'd expect that a 3D model won't either.
- davrosthedalek 9y agoThey (ok, a different they) also said that the iris scan can not be fooled, and how long did that last?
- jojoo 9y ago
- sccxy 9y agoKeynote is quite boring after so many leaks.
- chris_7 9y agoI unlock my phone in my pocket with Touch ID all the time - ready to go and on the home screen by the time I've flipped it around in my hand. Feels like a straight downgrade in usability. also, some engineer at apple had to continuously grow a beard to test this
- dan1234 9y agoI think speed of the facial recognition will make or break this. If it takes less than 500ms of me staring at it to unlock it could feel fluid enough. Any longer and it'll be annoying every time.
- davrosthedalek 9y ago500ms is a LOOONG time. That's about how long my S8 needs, and I always question whether it works this time. 100ms or so would be great.
- kfriede 9y agoI may be wrong, but I remember reading something that most humans can't notice any lag below 200ms.
- aetherson 9y agoYou can notice sub-200ms lag, but for when you aren't specifically watching for lag or firing a series of rapid events one-after-another, sub-200ms seems to be roughly the point where it "feels instantaneous."
- Splines 9y agoIn my experience a little under 100ms "feels" instantaneous.
- coolsunglasses 9y agoThat's absolutely not true. I can tell the difference between 60 hz (16ms) and my 144 hz monitor. I can tell when my 144 hz monitor is accidentally running at a lower refresh rate, including 120, 100, 75, and 60. 200 ms is like a full react/response time for a human to take action in response to input, our actual sense of time is much finer than what our nervous system can make our muscles do.
- gshakir 9y agoFace ID = Where the camera watches you all the time.
- bennettfeely 9y agoHow does Face ID work with identical twins?
- gshakir 9y agoSchiller admits that 'evil twins' is a weak point.
- jasonmaydie 9y agoIf evil twins are a weak point how came facemasks don't work?
- gshakir 9y agoor plastic surgery for that matter?
- janfoeh 9y agoOh come on. I say if you're willing to undergo major reconstructive surgery just to read my emails, go ahead, you've earned it.
- Gaelan 9y agoThis is, of course, a threat model issue. If you're Assange/Snowden, you might want to shy away from Face ID, but you probably didn't have Touch ID on anyway.
- ianferrel 9y agoEvil twins have faces made out of skin, not rubber.
- jpalomaki 9y agoI would imagine the facemasks where not accurate enough when it comes to the the 3d structure. Could be a different thing when somebody uses a quality 3d printer to print image that is based on detailed laser scan.
- grenoire 9y agoWoah, they skipped 9 just like Windows!
- datalus 9y agoBetter coverage: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage-iphone-x-event/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage-iphone-x-...
- danijelb 9y agoFaceID shows the difference between Apple and other smartphone manufacturers. Apple doesn't release features until they are absolutely sure they can engineer them to work perfectly.
- raesene9 9y agoHow do you know it'll work perfectly? No-one actually has one of these to test it yet.
- danijelb 9y agoOf course I don't. But the presentation gives enough information to be able to assume it is secure. Some other manufacturers' solutions can be tricked with photos. Since Apple mentioned dot projector, you can assume they are tracking the 3D model of your face which by itself should be much more secure. And it works with Apple Pay, the banks wouldn't allow it if it wasn't equivalent to Touch ID.
- raesene9 9y agoSo windows Hello, which also uses 3D models, has been available for years. As to banks, I'm fairly sure (although I have no inside knowledge) that the banks won't have been allowed to review this technology in advance of the release, so they have no real assurance here. You can of course assume it's secure and as usuable as TouchID, but I'm guessing the devil will be in the detail on this one.
- bspn 9y agoLol, just as it fails in the live onstage demo ...
- theshrike79 9y agoIt didn't fail, the phone had rebooted, forcing passcode entry.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- marcell 9y agoFaceID seems pretty impressive, if it works as advertised, and it sounds like they've thought of a lot of edge cases. I can't get over the black bar at the top of iPhone X though. It looks like it has devil horns...
- jordache 9y agoYou got all of that from a press event? reallY?
- saagarjha 9y agoYes…they mentioned the tests they put it through. Different hairstyles, facial hair, etc. and it worked; they tried pictures and masks and made sure it didn't.
- aluhut 9y agoI'm looking forward for the CCC hack of this. Maybe you can now tape the picture around your face.
- theshrike79 9y agoIt's a bit more complicated than that. But yea, seeing how much effort it takes to hack this will be interesting.
- captainmuon 9y ago...and all I wonder is why they are skipping number 9? Are the negative connotations some culture? iPhone NEIN? With Windows 9, there was at least the explanation that software might confuse it with Windows 9x (which I didn't buy, since there is view api returning the version as a string, and Windows shims GetVersion if you don't declare compatibility anyway). More on topic, this looks nice, I think people will not be disappointed like they were with the MBPs. Can't wait to try it in a store (and probably can't afford it either...). Edit: no touch ID?? Might have spoken too quickly...
- oculusthrift 9y agoI think its because this is the 10th anniversary of the iphone. And they want to have it seen as a major step forward.
- egypturnash 9y agoProbably because it's been ten years since the original iPhone, and they feel this one's far enough from the original to merit the version bump. They may also be trying to indicate that they feel this iPhone is on a par with OSX for productivity or something.
- Apocryphon 9y agoIt's more succinct than Tenth Anniversary iPhone Edition, I suppose.
- linguae 9y agoDuring WWDC 1998, Steve Jobs announced Mac OS X (as a change from the original Rhapsody strategy) while Mac OS 8.1 was still current. There is precedent by Apple to announce version X before version 9 is released.
- raesene9 9y agoI do hope Apple have got this facial recognition stuff right, but personally I'm skeptical that it'll be better than TouchID. For me, from reading previously leaks, this feels like a compromise where design (we want a phone that's all screen) wins out over usuability (TouchID is great for usuable security)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- dopamean 9y agoI turned off the stream because I needed to get back to work. Did they say anything about security for FaceID? Such as where the data about your face is stored. Or what about just holding up a photo of someone?
- acomjean 9y agohttps://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage-iphone-x-event/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/12/live-coverage-iphone-x-... "Face data protected by A11 chip's secure enclave. On-device processing." Looks like its using a dot projector for the depth sensing (similar to the xbox kinect).
- kevingrahl 9y agoIt’s stored in the secure enclave locally on the device. They said it can’t be fooled by photographs and they tested it with “Hollywood mask makers”. It’s “one in a million”.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 9y agoIt's all stored locally on the phone. I don't think they mentioned whether there will still be a "panic" button which forces passcode unlock.
- theshrike79 9y agoThe "panic" is an iOS 11 feature, not phone specific in any way.
- S_A_P 9y agoThey did mention that they tested against photos, and worked with hollywood makeup artists to make masks to test the phone as well. The number they mention for the odds that someone elses face will match yours is 1 in 1,000,000. They also said that touch id has a 1 in 50,000 chance, so it is 20x more secure.(I say that a bit tongue in cheek) I would like to know how they crunched these numbers though.
- goeric 9y agoFace ID just failed in the on-stage demo. Oops :(.
- theshrike79 9y agoNo it didn't the phone was already in the "please enter a passcode" phase, most likely due to a reboot.
- saagarjha 9y agoThe phone had just been rebooted. That's why it asked for a passcode.
- aeleos 9y agoLol the first Face ID demo had some issues
- saagarjha 9y agoThe phone had been rebooted and thus required a passcode to unlock.
- mtgx 9y agoDid the FaceID just fail on stage for Craig Federighi?
- justusthane 9y agoNo, it didn't. The screen said "Enter PIN to enable Face ID." The phone had been rebooted, and a password is required first. Same as TouchID. He failed, FaceID did not.
- sidcool 9y agoYep, but he had a back up phone right there.
- mholt 9y agoI approve of Face ID more than Windows Hello, but I'm not convinced that neural networks are ready for security prime-time. Have we solved adversarial attacks yet? Were any of the masks they used in training painted with adversarial patterns? (The tech is cool, though. Actually amazing, that it fits on a phone.)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- kevingrahl 9y agoIt was said Face ID is one in a million so that means ~7500 people can unlock my phone..
- function_seven 9y agoMy current PIN is 6 digits, so ~7500 can also unlock my phone on a random guess. Chances are the first five people to try will trigger the passcode though.
- kevingrahl 9y agoHaven't checked your math but that's random guesses on an insecure password and prevented by rate limiting, you can't just enter 7.5 billion passwords. Face recognition (other than Face ID I mean) is fairly advanced. Let's say a government wanted to unlock my phone they could search for similiar faces and just pay the person. Sure a lot of trouble for unlocking a phone and it's theoretical but it's still a flawed system in my opinion.
- jpalomaki 9y agoThere's no perfect solution to this problem. Secure password is too clumsy to enter on phone many times per hour. Passcodes are easy to catch via shoulder surfing.
- kevingrahl 9y agoSure, I see that but different users - different habits. I manage just fine with a 25+ character random alphanumerical password that I change at least every six months. I only use Touch ID when I'm home and am very aware when entering my password. In the end it's just a phone but I like to have it at somewhat secure.
- bpicolo 9y ago6 * 10 = 1,000,000
- 9y ago
- humbleMouse 9y agoAnother reason to keep using my iphone-5s. New phones are way too big, and I love the home button. If I was forced to upgrade I'd get the iphone 7 se (the mini one)
- listic 9y agoIt's rather the 6s one. Still, I hope they will upgrade it in future. Also, I'm sure they will release scaled-down version of the X in time; it's just easier/cheaper for them to release a bigger iPhone first.
- saagarjha 9y agoiPhone SE, you mean. It's the same on that came out alongside iPhone 6S.
- iClaudiusX 9y agoProbably not a good sign that FaceID failed on stage for Craig on his first try (had to use a passcode to log in) during the demo.
- gre 9y agoNah, he used his backup iPhone and it worked!
- shard 9y agoI hope they include a backup iPhone with every purchase.
- S_A_P 9y agoI saw that- I am very curious how this will pan out as its released. I am wondering how well it will really adjust to your face changing(for instance a significant weight loss/gain, or injury)
- mlpinit 9y agoIt looked like he had a backup phone for that. For the fingertip version every once in a while you have to put in the passcode. I assume that's what happened in his case as well...
- mikestew 9y agoMe (as he gets ready to unlock): "Well, it's Apple, so it's got to work better than that horrendous alpha version of facial recognition on that POS Samsung Note...oops, guess not."
- xtracerx 9y agoI don't think it failed, it just said you had to use passcode on first login after restart, just like the touchID
- basch 9y agowhat does your touch id do if you have doritos on your thumb, or your phone in the shower too long? (it asks for your pin)
- mementomori 9y agoSomeone can drug me and hold the phone in front of my unconscious face to access all my data?
- artursapek 9y agoSame goes for your fingerprint, surely?
- subhero 9y agoor for for anything, really? (mandatory https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/)
- dmix 9y agoThere is far worse they could do to you in that state that open your iPhone... Biometric has the same issues regardless of touch or facial recognition.
- mmanfrin 9y agoNo, eyes need to be open, the user has to be "paying attention".
- UncleMeat 9y agoIf your threat model includes being abducted and drugged, basically nothing will save you.
- lagadu 9y agoIf someone is willing to do that to you, odds are that they're also willing to apply a crowbar to your limbs should you fail to comply with unlocking the phone.
- protomyth 9y agoI fail to see how this Face ID will work in a North Dakota winter or on the ski slope. // And they had a demo failure on their new unlock and swipe up for home.
- ianferrel 9y agoNot like touchid worked through gloves either. Passcode.
- protomyth 9y agoremoving my glove for a second is a lot easier than undoing the clothing covering my head
- ninkendo 9y agoWhat ianferrel is saying, that in all the scenarios you could use TouchID on previous phones, you can use your passcode on the iPhone X. I think it's totally fine actually... I'm sure there are several strange scenarios where FaceID is cumbersome because you can't point your phone straight at your face, but in those scenarios you can always just type your passcode. That in combination with scenarios where FaceID is more available than TouchID (wet hands, for instance), I think it probably evens out.
- mitchty 9y agoI always found it easier to just pulling up headwear than pulling off crazy gauntlet gloves at -30.
- arrrg 9y agoThe passcode is the sensible fallback then.
- dkrich 9y agoYou're right, why didn't Apple product designers consider the massive segment of the population attempting to unlock their devices via facial recognition in the midst of a blizzard?
- adamb_ 9y agoInitial demo for Face ID failed -- Obviously less than ideal when trying to convince your audience that "it just works".
- nixy 9y agoIt was because the phone had been rebooted, and iOS requires a passcode after a reboot.
- tabeth 9y agoI wonder how well Face ID works with dark skinned people. Dead serious. Historically facial recognition has had a tough time with dark skinned folks. The inclusion of an IR camera should mitigate, if not solve this, but I'm curious to the accuracy in practice.
- kanwisher 9y agoIt uses an IR camera, so it wouldn't matter the skin color. Also people's skin color changes over time so that wouldn't be a reliable system anyways
- tabeth 9y agoI'm aware that it uses an IR camera. What I'm curious about is what the accuracy rates are in practice for light vs dark skinned people for Face ID in general. There's more to Face ID than just the type of camera they're using, I imagine. Also, what do you mean by that wouldn't be.... What is "that?"
- indemnity 9y agoThey have 2D faces?
- scarlac 9y agoGiven that they say it works in the dark, I'd guess dark skin works equally well. They also use a black guy in their marketing material, where he's wearing a winter hat, scarf, and grows a beard
- scarlac 9y agoNot sure why I'm getting down voted. Here's a link to the marketing material where a dark-skinned guy is wearing a hat, scarf, and grows a beard: https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/#face-id https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/#face-id
- kelnos 9y agoMy understanding is that the issue with people with dark skin is that the camera has less to go off of because there's less light reflection. Face ID shouldn't suffer from that problem since it uses an IR camera.
- Jyaif 9y agoI love how for their demo they selected videos where it was dark where the screen bump is.
- matthberg 9y agoIt's interesting how Apple is moving away from being the first phone with a feature (face id, Samsung did that before, or oled displays that are edge to edge). I think the shift from that innovation is a maturing step, but also a sign that the company is aging poorly. They can no longer claim to be leading with creation, just with quality. More and more the focus in smartphone development, not just Apple, is on being the best of what currently exists instead of actually bringing groundbreaking technology to the table.
- dopamean 9y agoHasn't this been true for a while?
- jgh 9y agoIt's almost always been true. Think back to the early iPhone days when they didn't even have cut & paste! Apple has always done a good job of really refining features, but I'm not certain I can think of one that they were first on.
- oneeyedpigeon 9y agoFirst keyboard-less tablet?
- redial 9y agoThere were many before. There was even a mac keyboard-less tablet years before the iPhone, just not made by Apple.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoFirst use of capacitive touch on a smart phone (or anything consumer for that matter), the original iPhone really was a big deal with lots of firsts.
- redial 9y ago
- deedubaya 9y agoSay what you want about practicality, the facial tracking on this is pretty impressive..... aaannnd Apple uses it to give us the Poop Animoji.
- fokinsean 9y agoBut where's iphone 9
- dade_ 9y ago10 years. C'mon people...
- nevi-me 9y agoFailed like Windows 9. I wonder if the plan is to keep refreshing the iPhone X into the future, like all other X/10 versions seem to do.
- quake 9y agoiPhone X One X
- matthberg 9y agoLooks like a Windows 8.1 -> 10 naming change, it must be in style to be inconsistent :)
- russellbeattie 9y agoI had read part of the decision was based on minimizing confusion with 95/98 versions of Windows. Who knows?
- excalibur 9y agoThere isn't one. After 30 years of trying to distance themselves from Redmond, Apple has subscribed to the Microsoft School of Counting.
- kfriede 9y agoThis happened with the 3GS (which should have been 4), and has continued since then.
- 9y ago
- snowpanda 9y agoFace ID seems like a great way to build a global database of people's faces. Not saying they will, but if they wanted to, that would be the way to do it.
- empath75 9y agonever leaves the phone.
- theshrike79 9y agoApple isn't Google, they have no interest in having a global fingerprint or face database. Everything is done on device and the device is sealed tight enough to make hacking impractical for everyone except for state level actors.
- aeturnum 9y agoCould we have a modicum of skepticism in repeating press releases? >Thanks to this new design, the iPhone X is sealed for water and dust resistance. So the iPhone 7, which does not use this design, was not water and dust resistant? I know this is a meta point, but it's annoying. Apple can say whatever they like in their releases, but it would be nice to have people familiar with the domain do a smell test on the content.
- vlunkr 9y agoI don't think they said that it wasn't.
- AsyncAwait 9y agoI think he's saying that because the iPhone 7 was also water resistant, it cannot be that the new one is so due to the new design, given the old one allowed for it too.
- runesoerensen 9y agoAlso https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15229900
- TekMol 9y agoThat AI chip that runs 600 billion instructions per second - is that just for FaceID or can it be programmed?
- fivesigma 9y ago600 billion instructions per second to show a poop emoji.
- artursapek 9y agoThe world's brightest minds are working on this stuff
- subie 9y agoIncredible, just imagine what 2018 brings us.
- keketi 9y agoFrom the company with the largest market capitalization in the world.
- evanriley 9y agoI believe they said it was also used with their CoreML library and ARKit.
- singularity2001 9y agoIt can be programmed.
- revelation 9y ago
- drakenot 9y agoI can't believe that video plays "under" the notch. I would have bet money that they would have blacked out the status bar during video playback.
- ihuman 9y agoI wouldn't be surprised if you could double-tap to zoom out, like when watching 4:3 videos on the current iPhone.
- __david__ 9y agoThey do that—there's a video in this thread somewhere that shows it.
- endemic 9y agoYeah, some bizarre asymmetry there. I'd have preferred they just shrink the top/bottom bezels, similar to the Galaxy S8 or LG's V30. I can't see "the cutout" aging gracefully.
- heartbreak 9y agoCharitably, I assume if you’re holding the phone with no bezel, your thumb has to cover up part of the screen anyway. So it’ll cover that space. Otherwise that’s the dumbest design decision I’ve ever seen them make on the iPhone hardware. It’s worse than the protruding camera that they STILL have.
- saurik 9y agoI never hold my phone with my thumb on the top... I have it cupped into my palm and if I really need to "hold" it I grasp the sides. Why is your thumb on the front?
- excalibur 9y agoWatch for the inevitable explosion of videos with important content (like "Apple sucks") placed in such a way that it will be hidden behind the notch.
- Animistic 9y agoTo me, it honestly looks and seems like an Android phone with IoS. Which I guess isn't such a bad thing.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y agoAll this time I'm wondering... Why should I buy this phone? Honestly, there's noting convincing in it.
- theshrike79 9y agoYou shouldn't. But millions and millions will.
- MBCook 9y agoIt's all about your priorities. For me? Having a phone is basically the same size but with a bigger screen is a great win, as is the improved contrast and visual quality. I can tell you TrueTone fantastic from using it on my iPad. I've wanted the camera system from the plus size phones but again I didn't want to phone that large. So to be able to get an improved version of that in a phone that's almost the same size? That's another big win. The rest is just bonus.
- aphextron 9y agoBack glass...
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoThe Animoji thing is surprisingly neat. I was all prepped to make fun of it when they put the name on the screen, but that's just... really really neat.
- sprite 9y agoSeems completely useless to me. Apple has lost it's focus. I'm thinking of switching to Android for the first time since iPhone 3G. The only reason I'm still on iOS is for iMessage/Facetime.
- bpicolo 9y agoIt's entertainment. People enjoy entertainment. Why not?
- CodeCube 9y agoit may be useless to you ... but like, do you know any "regular" people? do you know how popular things like bitmoji are? and snapchat face 'filters'? This is gonna kill ;)
- alkonaut 9y agoWill it kill in the first iteration though? I know tons of people who have snapchat and speak in emoji, but they are all using 5 year old iPhones or budget androids. Because they are 10-25.
- osxrand 9y agoI feel that Apple knows exactly what it's doing with this feature. There is a strong pull with iMessage for 15-25 year olds in schools, the kind of market something like this will go over pretty well with and potentially create more lock in to their message platform. Along with all the other photo apps that will take advantage of this tech. You could even just look at the Animoji as a tech preview for all the other devs.
- christoph 9y ago
- sarang23592 9y agoWill iphone X have passcode along with FaceId
- singularity2001 9y agoyes
- runesoerensen 9y agoProduct page now up: https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/ Press release: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-iphone-x/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-ip...
- miguelrochefort 9y ago- Ugly notch - No USB-C - Gimmicky features - Protruding camera - $999
- gerry_shaw 9y agoYou forgot to add "lame" /s
- LoSboccacc 9y agoI really don't get the notches. They're extra ugly, they put the sensor in a vulnerable position and are basically there so that they can claim a thinner phone forcing user to fatten it again with ugly plastic cases just to have the phone rest flat
- Karunamon 9y ago- No wireless - Less space than a Nomad - Lame. Let's not mince words here, this thing is gonna print money.
- tinus_hn 9y agoPlease don't buy it. It is not a phone for you.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoExactly! and add this: - to access Ctrl Center, every time you have to swipe from the top right corner of the screen, on a 5.8" screen for God's sake...
- the_duke 9y agoIs it just me or does the big fat shiny frame on the iPhone 10 completely destroy it's aesthetic appeal and kills the 'infinity' effect? It looks really clunky to me.
- theshrike79 9y ago"Looks clunky" and you've only seen some rendered images of it on screen :D
- pcurve 9y agoit has pretty thick bezel. I think the overall design is evocative of the original iphone with metal wraparound molding, but I think Apple compromised aesthetics in exchange for better drop test durability. From head one, it's definitely not an attractive phone, far from it.
- dade_ 9y agoFinally, wireless charging, they even support standard Qi, but how are they making Qi work like a power mat?
- bdcravens 9y agoI thought they said it wasn't a standard, but they are working to eventually add it to Qi
- theshrike79 9y agoThey're "Working with the Qi standards body" to improve it.
- perseusprime11 9y agoHow many folks thought the bezel up top is weird? They should have captured the screen space for something else.
- AaronFriel 9y agoI wonder if the tech team involved with Face ID factored the birthday paradox into their security factor. They touted a "1 in 1,000,000" chance that someone else's face unlocks one's iPhone X. Well, with the birthday paradox, let's say there were, say, exactly 1179 people in the Steve Jobs Auditorium and they all had iPhone Xs. That's 694,431 unique pairs of people, and there would be roughly a 50% chance of two of the attendees faces unlocking the same phone. That's not helpful for brute forcing a single phone, but it is mildly disconcerting that a security factor of only 1 in 1,000,000 is considered a "wow" factor. Edit: Some people are asking, "But isn't that equivalent to a six digit pin?" Yes, of course. I am just opining on the marketing spiel for security not being nearly as impressive as it sounds. More boring features like the secure enclave play a much larger role in the security of the iPhone than the "1 in X" chance of a successful unlock.
- r3bl 9y ago...or, you know, if you steal someone's phone, you might as well flash it over the victim's eyes.
- stretchwithme 9y agoIf they remember to look away, it won't unlock. Seems very unlikely to me.
- FLGMwt 9y agoor if it's confiscated and you're compelled to unlock it.
- heliumcraft 9y agoWhat's the point of the iPhone 8? It's essentially an upgrade to the iphone 7S and that's all.
- xxkylexx 9y agoIt's Apple's way of transitioning to a higher price point on their phones. Now they have the iPhone X at $1000 but oh, there's still have this iPhone 8 at the lower price point... I'm betting next year there is no more lower price point and the new standard is $1000 phones.
- srdev 9y agoThat's a pretty big point by itself. Lots of people with pre-7 phones looking for an upgrade that don't need or want all the X features.
- sigjuice 9y agoThere is no iPhone 7S. Only 6, 6S, 7 and now 8.
- balls187 9y ago$1000 for higher fidelity snapchat features. I love my iphone camera, and if the upgrade program isn't too terrible, I will get the iPhoneX, but call me underwhelmed. The implementation of faceID seems really poorly thought out. I can unlock my phone, and navigate it before focusing my attention on it. I feel like "attention to unlock" is going to cause an increase in distracted driver related incidents.
- LoSboccacc 9y agoBet the chip that allow those snapchat feautures could be used for on-device machine learning, that'll open up really interesting app.
- FireBeyond 9y ago"This is an image straight out of the camera, with no post processing. All we've done is apply a Portrait Filter to fade out the background." Uhhh, I guess that doesn't count as post processing, then.
- balls187 9y agoThese days, after the rise of dSLRs, post-processing is something that occurs after the image is saved to memory. Raw sensor data to JPEG undergoes incamera processing. Cameras typically only allow small oversight of that process, so many photographers prefer to shoot RAW, and do 100% of the processing via post-processing.
- FireBeyond 9y agoThat's apologist at best. I'm not disputing the feature is cool, or whatever. But what they're doing is unabashedly post processing. Come on, in most of the examples there were sliders to choose the effect, the intensity thereof. To claim "well, it's not really post processing because you're doing it before 'saving'" (also doubtful because if it's an extension of what is currently possible with editing on the iPhone, it's an edit to a saved original) is grasping at a straws, as is comparing it to "raw-to-JPEG". This is 'straight out of Aperture/Lightroom' style editing, aka post processing.
- Accacin 9y agoSo, I guess I'm the only one who thinks the notch looks great? Gives it a bit of character! I won't be buying one though, I'm hoping my iPhone 7 lasts at least another 2 or 3 years.
- provemewrong 9y agoYes, you must be the only one.
- bvy 9y agoI'm reminded of the spectrum of reactions to the new Prius design by the comments on the notch
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- goberoi 9y agoCan the new camera technology be used to map spaces as big as rooms? If so, this could be game changing for allowing the creation of VR spaces quickly and inexpensively. E.g., play a VR game in your real house after mapping it with your iPhone X. Or better, do a detailed remodel in VR before doing it in real life. A lot of commercial uses of VR technology (e.g., construction, industrial design, etc.) can benefit from inexpensive, and accurate mapping. Today, the alternative is to get an architect to build a model of your house, to build a crude version yourself, have a Hololens/Tango phone/or other nascent and expensive technology. If not, what truly is the game changing aspect of these cameras + specialized compute for machine learning/neural nets? They have to have thought through dozens of use cases beyond photos, animated emojis, and other trivial entertainment... right?
- guelo 9y agoI doubt they expose an API since it's part of the security feature.
- DonHopkins 9y agohttps://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/arpointcloud https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/arpointcloud
- goberoi 9y agoThey are going to expose some of this functionality as part of their AR libraries. We know this from their Snapchat demo, as well as the gaming demo (though that used the rear camera, not front one). So... yes, developers will be able to get their hands on some of this tech, but how much can we do with it? If room mapping was truly possible, I would imagine they would have done more in their demo with this, e.g. see the Hololens game where robots come flying out of walls, and hide behind your couch. That demo was more substantial than seeing a flat tabletop with a projected 3d game, or a projected 3d robots standing on a flat basketball court.
- MBCook 9y agoI think you guys are talking about two different sensors. The 3-D sensor (the one that works like Kinect) is only on the front of the phone and I assume only for short range. That's the one the Snapchat demo used in the one that Face ID uses. The AR demos of games use the normal cameras on the back of the device. That stuff will be available to any device 6S and up.
- hungerstrike 9y agoHow do you get to the home screen? For instance if I'm using an app right now I hit the home button and it take me to my home screen with all of my app icons. How do I do this on the iPhone X?
- duckarmada 9y agoYou swipe up from the bottom.
- samstr 9y agoSwipe up quickly like you used to with Control Center to return to the home screen. Control Center is now swipe down from the top.
- alkonaut 9y agoCan't help wondering what the next model will be called given what a dead end "X" is. After OS X they never went to 11. They codenamed the 10.N versions but it doesn't seem likely with a "iPhone X 10.2 mushroom badger"-type name. Best guess: they'll just call it the iPhone next year. Like some other products they'll just use the model year to distinguish. Guessing we won't even see the "iPhone XS", it'll just be "iPhone (2018)".
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoMy question is: What are they going to call the normal iPhone after iPhone 9? iPhone 10?
- MBCook 9y agoMy guess is that next year they drop the numbers and it just becomes the iPhone, the iPhone plus, and the iPhone X (or something similar).
- valine 9y agoWe have iOS 11 which I think is a good indication that Apple isn’t avoiding the number 11. They’ve officially broken the ‘s’ pattern by skipping the 7s and going right to 8, so I’d say the most likely name for the next iPhone is iPhone 11.
- amrrs 9y agoGuess, With Face ID, Apple making Fbi or any govt authority's 'Hey can you open this iPhone' case much much harder. Like iPad replaced a log of information display in Public places like airports, Face ID could one day become our entry pass in many places. But in the age of Trump, what if Equifax fate to apple?
- dmayle 9y agoWith Face ID, all the government has to do is detain you. Apple warned against evil twins, but they should have warned against anyone living with you. Family members, kids, roommates. Face ID: Don't go to sleep ever again
- osxrand 9y agoOn stage it was stated you needed to be alert and looking at the device, as in eyes open. Sleeping is fine I'd guess :) If you're worried about people living with you, I'd guess TouchID is already a huge issue.
- anonred 9y agoI don't sleep with my eyes open, do you?
- theshrike79 9y agoThe same people can just slip your TouchID device under your finger and unlock it.
- tarcon 9y agoDoes the iPhone X Super Retina Display lack the 120hz refresh rate of the iPad Pro ProMotion Display? I hoped that 120hz would be the future because I really enjoy it and feel that animations on my iPhone 6 feel a bit jerky.
- ProfessorLayton 9y agoI've accepted that the headphone jack is never coming back no matter how much I'd like it to. I still can't accept that a company that is so focused on design has accepted the ever-growing camera protrusion in order to make the phone "thinner". My 6s has a scuffed camera ring, and rattles when used on a table, due to its inability to lay flat.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoI guess they've also have accepted that people are going to use a cover anyway, so they don't bother. > My 6s has a scuffed camera ring, and rattles when used on a table, due to its inability to lay flat. Exactly. This was my first impression when I saw that protruded camera on iPhone 6.
- oneeyedpigeon 9y agoI don't know if this differs from country to country, but the vast majority of iPhones I observe are not in a case — probably at least 90%. The design is a major selling point, so I'm not surprised most people don't want to use a case.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoMost iPhones I see around are in a case. I personally don't like that, but if you're going to type on a flat table, you'd better use a case to flatten the back of the iPhone, avoiding those rattlings.
- intrasight 9y agoI observe the reverse - 90% in a case. But then again, I'm in an older, wiser demographic.
- thrav 9y agoThe phone before that, where the camera was flat, is the one where everyone's pictures got foggy after a while. It's because the little lens cover would get scratched over time, since it sat flush. The protrusion is intentional to ensure the outer ring is scratched, instead of the lens cover. That's a feature.
- darrmit 9y agoEven prior to the leak it seemed (to me) like it would be hard to improve on the 6s/7, and the keynote confirmed it. From wireless charging to FaceID it just feels like a bunch of incremental, gimmick-y changes.
- alkonaut 9y agoThe screen is the big deal. It's quite a lot better. Oled. Ridiculous dpi. But the problem with that is that the regular iPhone screen is unbelievably good already. Why would people pay so much for the improvement?
- crsmithdev 9y agoSo...wait, wasn't one of the biggest selling points of the (awful) Touch Bar on the latest MBP that it could use Touch ID? And a few months later they are moving away from that entirely?
- smileysteve 9y agoReportedly, they couldn't get it to work through the display (bezel-less) (and they didn't put it on the back)
- cm2187 9y agoIt's interesting that they are not retiring the 6s, which is now 3 generations behind. I am not the only one refusing to buy a smartphone which requires some dongle to listen to my music.
- Karunamon 9y agoI really don't see the extra $300 justification between this and the regular iPhone 8. A slightly better screen and better camera with otherwise similar specs. Edge to edge and face scanning emojis are neat, but I just can't justify that kind of spend for it. That, and I'm not all that jazzed about Face ID. Seems less secure than touch.
- jamesrcole 9y ago> between this and the regular iPhone 8. A slightly better screen ... with otherwise similar specs The screen is a fair bit larger
- Karunamon 9y agoNot appreciably more than the 7+ https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/06/iphone-8-compared-to-iphone-7-plus/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/09/06/iphone-8-compared-to-iphone-7... More PPI sure, but I think we reached the point of diminishing returns a while ago. (Ignore the headline - the opening image is an X set next to a 7+)
- jamesrcole 9y agoI was responding to someone comparing it to the standard model, not the plus models. See the text I quoted, and see their original comment.
- alkonaut 9y agoI'd have to see the oled next to the current screen to judge it. That said: I go through at least a screen repair, maybe two, for a phone. If I calculate the price of phone + 1 extra screen, it's probably looks even worse for the X.
- tapatio 9y agoThe $300 gets you status in a restaurant/bar/club, that's all.
- yladiz 9y agoI'm impressed with the presentation and looking forward to the iPhone X. Some features are gimmicky like the Animoji, but a lot of the new features and upgrades are really nice. That being said I have two main gripes. I know it kind of goes against how their Camera app and system works, but I really wish that Apple would (or will) enable RAW shooting from within the default Camera app. I use a separate app, besides for the special features like level and white balance adjustment, for the RAW shooting. I feel that it's kind of put there because it's available but they don't really care about it -- you can tell from the fact that the Photos app doesn't properly show RAW photos. It would be great if you could seamlessly take a photo and be able to take and export the RAW if you enabled a flag in the settings, just like how 4K was/is hidden behind a flag. The other gripe is now the control center is from the top, rather than the bottom. I use the control center often when controlling music and the flashlight and it makes it less usable for one hand. In fact, I'm wondering how the "swipe from the bottom" will work with apps that take over that gesture, because I run into a lot of issues with trying to open the control center but being annoyingly overridden by the current app. I'm hopeful but hesitant that Apple thought of this and worked out kinks regarding this.
- RayVR 9y agoI can't wait for someone to pick up my phone, point it at my face and have it unlock. Hope it has a "User sleeping, can't unlock" feature.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y agoI am not interested in the X model without TouchID. FaceID provides a less secure authentication method than TouchID. * Sleeping victims * Attacker holds the phone to your face Its not as simple as using the 'wrong finger'. You only have one face. This is awful, Apple. What were you thinking?
- Flockster 9y agoYou have to actively look at the display to unlock it. So sleeping wouldn't work.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y agoJust wait. Id rather not even deal with these scenarios at all. Where is touchID?!? Why did they ship this without it!?
- josefresco 9y agoWhat about if you're dead? Would law enforcement, medics and/or family be able to use your (recently) deceased face to unlock? Would that be legal?
- X86BSD 9y agoClearly you have no understanding how it works and did not watch the keynote.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y agoI did. I guess you have more info as you are an apple engineer and are breaking NDA?
- ben174 9y agoThe keynote mentioned multiple times that the face must be actively engaged. Passers by or sleeping faces won't work. Maybe watch it again.
- 9y ago
- RayVR 9y agoGiven how painfully slow wireless charging is, I'd prefer they go for the rapid charging feature. May not be as sexy but it's way more useful.
- dolguldur 9y agoFast charging was listed as a feature
- ianburrell 9y agoFrom the footnote, fast charging works with the USB-C chargers. That means it is possible it supports USB-PD like the iPad Pro. It does mean that fast charging requires the Apple 29W charger. But should also work with any USB-C charger.
- miguelrochefort 9y agoiPhone X starts at $1,516.85 in Canada (after taxes)...
- xvolter 9y agoAre they aware that "Surgical‑grade stainless steel" means extremely cheap? Surgical‑grade stainless steel is designed to be single-use. They advertise their phone as having steel that is good enough to use once?
- burger_moon 9y agoI mean if they want to use a corrosion resistant metal that sounds fancy they should have gone with Monel. It's very hard and tough, corrosion resistant, and the name even sounds fancy and expensive. It also has a nice look when machined.
- talklittle 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel > There is no formal definition on what constitutes a "surgical stainless steel", so product manufacturers and distributors apply the term to refer to any grade of corrosion resistant steel.
- tener 9y agoAren't surgery tools supposed to last years of use?
- kuschku 9y agoSterilizing surgical tools is extremely expensive, and not good enough. You can sterilize some tools, for some purposes, but usually that doesn’t remove all contaminants. So surgical tools are instead produced for single time use, and after that recycled, to ensure they’re always sterile. EDIT: For example, with scalpels, you can remove and replace the blade, and do exactly that after every use. Removing and replacing the blade looks like this: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc86caa627022bbfb7e6b4a356ccba18-c https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-dc86caa627022bbfb7e6b4...
- monocasa 9y agoWhat? Can't you just throw them in an autoclave?
- pier25 9y agoI think those screen rounded corners and the cameras space at the top is one of the worst ideas Apple has ever had. When they showed a video playing in landscape I could only facepalm.
- gbrown_ 9y agoIt seems like iPhone X would have been the perfect candidate to switch to USB-C. I had thought this would have been a long time coming given the USB-C only approach on MacBooks, yet it remains curiously absent. I really don't understand the fracture in the Apple ecosystem in regards to connectivity here. Can anyone enlighten me as to why Apple are still using the Lightening connector here?
- sorenjan 9y agoThey make money on every product that wants to connect to Lightning.
- gbrown_ 9y agoAh I hadn't thought about inoperability with peripherals from other manufacturers. I was focused on the need for adapters within the apple ecosystem (e.g. charging an iPhone from a MacBook). This still seems very inelegant but perhaps the Apple we have today has a beauty that is only surface deep.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoHonestly, when Tim said "one more thing", I thought they're going to introduce a whole new line of products, like the Surface Phone we've heard rumors of. A device that only looks like a phone, but is in fact, a whole PC. iPhone X proved to be just another iPhone, nothing more.
- theshrike79 9y agoThere's a surprising amount of people who don't own a computer and use their phone as their only device.
- pier25 9y agoYeah me too. He raised his voice and I was really expecting something significant. Some AR glasses? Self driving car? Oh, another iPhone.
- efficax 9y ago
- bluetomcat 9y agoInfrared rays striking your eyes and face each time you look at your phone? Health implications?
- nardi 9y agoInfrared light is all around you all the time. I'd assume the intensity levels here are extremely safe.
- theshrike79 9y agoInfrared rays strike your eyes and face EVERY TIME YOU GO OUTSIDE.
- widowlark 9y agoThis just in: Apple releases the Samsung Galaxy S8, calls it an iPhone
- lcfcjs2 9y agoAn Apple version of the Galaxy S8 that can't be hacked?
- Jeremy1026 9y agoWould you say the same thing in reverse if Apple's event was a month earlier? These things have been in work for more than the past month.
- zuminator 9y agoWhat difference does a month make? The S8's been out since April.
- Jeremy1026 9y agoApologies, did a quick google for Galaxy S8 Announcement and saw August 7th, didn't realize that was for the S8 Active.
- glogla 9y agoS8 has a headphone jack.
- kasabali 9y agoand a fingerprint scanner
- ctdonath 9y agoProjector-based 3D face recognition. Nifty. Shines an IR dot pattern onto the face, recognizes with that, works in the dark. Seems on continuously, wonder how much power draw.
- sunsetMurk 9y agoI'd bet ~30 days with this in the public's hands we will see headlines like "How to beat iPhone's facial recognition with X". There are some crafty folks out there--
- simonh 9y agoThey look like they worked hard to cover that, even training the network to reject 3D face models done up by Hollywood makeup artists. It's hard to see how you'd spoof it better than that.
- sgarman 9y agoThis is a fundamental issue with developing secure software/tech in a private. You have to hope you are the smartest team in the world and that you thought of everything. It's you vs everyone else.
- pi-rat 9y agoDoesn't really have to look like a hollywood mask though, fooling neural networks is a growing area of research these days: http://www.evolvingai.org/fooling http://www.evolvingai.org/fooling There are probably many redundancies in face ID, but I wouldn't be surprised if some interesting techniques for fooling it show up.
- dgreensp 9y agoThese approaches assume you have access to the trained neural network weights, i.e. that it's a "white box".
- manmal 9y ago
- jnwatson 9y agoWouldn't Face ID allow a stolen phone to be easily unlocked? Just put the stolen phone in a different container (with a hole for the camera/sensors) and point it at the victim. My daughter likes to "steal" my phone to play games on it. With touch ID, she can't. She wouldn't have a problem if the phone has Face ID.
- nardi 9y agoThey said during the announcement that you have to be looking at the phone for it to unlock.
- dullgiulio 9y agoThen you put in a container with something small written on it ;)
- briankirby 9y agoWhat about just printing out a photo and placing it in front of the camera? Does it have some way of understanding depth?
- theshrike79 9y agoYes. Please bother to even read the linked article before commenting.
- thegayngler 9y agoI wasn't really excited about AI and ML until I saw this iPhone X and the stuff they were doing with the Animojis and the Facial Recognition Tech. Whew! I may have to study AI/ML
- kolbe 9y agoYou say that, but when WW3 is prevented by Xi Jinping using a russian model Animoji to negotiate a peace treaty with Trump, you'll be less sarcastic
- Eric_WVGG 9y agoI think we're going to look back on that "animoji" bit as a turning point in modern entertainment. It's a silly, even dumb little feature, but look at what's really going on there: realtime near-Pixar-grade facial expressions. Someone's going to build a toolkit that lets kids make their own CG movies with friends acting out all the roles. That's gonna be nuts and is just the start.
- Splines 9y agoIt's a great achievement, and from the demo it looks like they're almost there (the framerate looked a little low and the characters were missing some subtleties of facial expression). I'll make a wild guess and say that in three years it's going to be nearly seamless.
- orteam 9y agoI just thought what could be done with animojies + ar... my head started spinning :) role-playing, avatars, you name it
- thegayngler 9y agoBitmoji is about to get a major boost. I love that app. Imagine what you could do with that using the AI/AR/ML stuff...
- SadWebDeveloper 9y ago> Implying all those things need AI/ML Sometimes i wonder if the people in the valley are so dumb or just so far ahead of the pack that foresaw a future were you can make a beautiful lie just to the take money from the big fish on the pond. // offtopic
- samrohn778 9y agoiPhone X has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained. What does this in disclaimer section means?
- johnl1479 9y agoIt hasn't been approved by the FCC for sale in the United States.
- jgh 9y agoMy guess is they didn't want to tell anyone at the FCC about it fearing leaks?
- saurik 9y agoIt means that they purposefully did not file with the FCC before presenting this so they would minimize leak opportunities, and did not care as their timeline is sufficiently padded forward that they will do that this month; but they also can't pretend it is already sellable: the FCC technically could say "no" (though it doesn't seem sufficiently crazy different from the iPhone 8 that I would imagine anyone expects any chance of that happening).
- sunsetMurk 9y agoProbably hasn't certified by FCC yet [1], for sale. The FCC process has been subject to leaks in the past, so they've probably waited until after main announcement. Didn't help too much though re: leaks. 1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Declaration_of_Conformity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Declaration_of_Conformity
- parthdesai 9y ago$1320 CAD + tax for a phone. MacBook Air is cheaper than this. edit: meant CAD.
- lcfcjs2 9y agoIt was $999.
- ihuman 9y agoWhere do you see $1320 + tax? The highest I can get it is $1,149.00 + tax for the 256GB version.
- parthdesai 9y agoi'm in Canada, should edit my comment.
- scarlac 9y agoTo be fair, the MB Air is fairly old in comparison. Also, the display is far better on the iPhone X and last time iPhone 7 was compared, it faired better than many notebooks in CPU tests as well. It only got better since then.
- parthdesai 9y agoA macbook also lasts much much longer than an iPhone
- Matthias247 9y agoAs usual it's even worse in europe. In germany it's 1149EUR for the 64gb model, 1319 for the 256gb one (all including taxes). The latter one is pretty close to what I paid for my 256gb macbook pro 13" 2 years ago (the newer pros are however also more expensive).
- wu_tang_chris 9y agoisn't that about right given a 19% sales tax? if not, what would be an identical EUR price for the $999 phone (tax not included)?
- noncoml 9y agoI don’t see anything justifying the price bump.
- briandear 9y agoDid you not see the array of cameras and sensors in the front? Or the longer battery life? Or the 4+2 core chip? Or the reengineered OLED? Were you actually sleeping during the announcement? Serious question.
- mynegation 9y agoYou both can be right: you are talking about costs and noncoml is talking about perceived value to hirself.
- noncoml 9y ago>Did you not see the array of cameras and sensors in the front? If they don't add any value to me, I don't really care. > Or the longer battery life? Doesn't justify $300+ price bump > Or the 4+2 core chip? New chips come out every day and they are priced at the same price or lower than the older generation at the day it was introduced. > Or the reengineered OLED? You mean the one similar to Samsung S8? > Were you actually sleeping during the announcement? Serious question. Why do you have to be offensive?
- omg_ketchup 9y agoYou asked what justified the price bump, and he told you. Whether you care/will use the things that are raising the price is irrelevant. If you have no need for those features, then buy the cheaper version.
- noncoml 9y agoThe price of products is more a function of the perceived value for the consumer, than a sum of the cost of the components. Adding more expensive components to a phone, doesn't make its value go up if it doesn't add some extra functionality or durability or something. The array of components for FaceID are just replacing TouchID, so for the consumer the net value is 0. I don't care what they have to add to make it work, what matters to me as a consumer, is what value I get out of it. And at the moment it looks like a net of 0. You see why I say "I don't care"?
- fuzzythinker 9y agoFun fact. The iPhone 7 "Overview" link[1] on their iPhone 7 page redirects to the iPhone X. Bug? Or a bit over pushing the new product? [1] https://www.apple.com/iphone-7 https://www.apple.com/iphone-7
- tkxxx7 9y agoit redirects to /iphone, where the X is featured prominently, but you can reach them all. edit: so does /iphone-6, but not /iphone-6s..
- einrealist 9y agoI cannot get around the missing headphone jack. My headphones cost more than this new iPhone :(
- sunsetMurk 9y agoditto - I'm fearing dongles in all of our futures.
- fnordsensei 9y agoThey're clearly banking on wireless chargers becoming mainstream and ubiquitous, leaving the lightning connector for headphones. The dongle madness seems less mad if you can charge all your doodads with the one watchacallit.
- mcphage 9y ago> They're clearly banking on wireless chargers becoming mainstream and ubiquitous, leaving the lightning connector for headphones. Well, true, but they're also banking on wireless headphones.
- MBCook 9y agoHave you tried AirPods? Or the Beats headphones that have the same wireless chip? I think they might be right. I never cared about wireless headphones until I tried AirPods and there're so incredibly convenient that I use them all the time now. Now I understand why so many people said wireless headphones were amazing.
- mcphage 9y ago> Have you tried AirPods? Or the Beats headphones that have the same wireless chip? I have not. I like the design, and hate cables, they're just a bit more money than I'd like to spend on headphones right now. When the price drops, I'll check them out.
- 9y ago
- KZeillmann 9y agoHow does the "Home" gesture work with games that require gestures? If someone has a game that requires flicking items upward from the bottom of the screen, will that now be impossible? I don't have an iPhone, but I'm assuming that games like Flippy Knife and Flip Master, currently #1 and #2 on the Play store, could run into issues.
- joeld42 9y agoA swipe up that starts past the edge of the screen is already a different gesture than a regular swipe. It works the same way as the current phone (swipe up from bottom brings up the "control center").
- sailfast 9y agoYes, but I've seen this control center option get buggy when apps require similar low-swipe gestures. It would be quite frustrating to deal with this without a home button option. Nevermind how annoying it would be if (god forbid) your screen cracked a bit and lowered the touch fidelity slightly.
- bhnmmhmd 9y agoYes, but you could disable Ctrl Center in Apps.
- maratd 9y agoOk, so how do you bring up the control center now?
- pritambarhate 9y agoDo you think phones are a "done" thing? I mean what we are seeing these days is more of an evolution than revolution. With iPhone X I think we know what the phone industry will move towards for next 4 years. All these features are cool and somewhat exciting but nothing groundbreaking that will change computing/communications forever. VR was supposed to be the game changer but it appears that it will also take around 4-5 years at least to be mainstream. What do you think will bring the next revolution in personal computing and communications?
- TekMol 9y agoGlasses that make you see the interface as good as a monitor would be a huge step forward. It's awesome that now we have a supercomputer in our pocket that is stuffed with sensors, needs no cables and is always connected to the internet. But looking at it is still cumbersome.
- hfourm 9y agoI really wish a phone company would just make a "macbook pro" of the phone world. Something where the hardware and battery can keep up with the OS for the next 4 years. Something where every new OS release isn't destroying my performance, and maybe even MAKING my performance better. We are getting all this new tech in the phone space, faster processors, more ram, etc. But prices keep going up for "premium" experiences. Seems backwards to me
- hellofunk 9y ago> Something where the hardware and battery can keep up with the OS for the next 4 years. I'm still using a 6 year old iPhone on the current OS without problems. And battery is working fine too.
- saagarjha 9y ago> 6 year old iPhone on the current OS You might be stretching it a bit there, but otherwise this point stands.
- singularity2001 9y ago"Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen." so they failed thus far
- singularity2001 9y agoIt looks ok on the homescreen but they should disable the corners for videos.
- Shivetya 9y agojust looking at their own website it becomes so glaring on any screen where the background isn't black. for me it actually looks worse than keeping a border area.
- theluketaylor 9y agoI agree; the cutout steals my attention each time I see it since it's so stark when the background isn't black. I would have rather it just have a small forehead.
- gordon_freeman 9y agoNo. What Ive means by that is they were bound by the constraints in technology so far so they could not achieve this vision so far. This is similar to what James Cameron said after filming 'Avatar' that his vision was to create such a film for more than a decade but slow technology advancement was the reason he could not make this film sooner.
- colordrops 9y agoYes, they have failed so far. It's not all screen. It's got a small bezel and the sensor notch at the top. They will need to develop different materials to support a strong bezel-free phone and sensors that sit inside/behind the screen. They are not there yet.
- 9y ago
- HugoDaniel 9y agoDoes it mean that the next version will be called Iphony ?
- alfonsodev 9y agothey can also go XL, XXL, XXXL and so on :p
- HugoDaniel 9y agoor even XI XII XII. Hail caesar or something.
- SadWebDeveloper 9y agoiPhone X "Pro"
- simonh 9y agoiPhone X Cheetah.
- jaxondu 9y agoMy guess is it will be called iPhone X Series 2. Also iPhone 8/8 Plus next year will change to "iPhone" and "iPhone Plus". All follow the same Apple Watch naming as they can't have iPhone 10/iPhone 10 Plus. They keep the "8" this year probably for the hope to gain market share in China as people there like the number "8".
- iamwil 9y agoJust checking, this isn't with a see-through glass, right? The phone isn't translucent.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nnd 9y agoWith all that hype building up, I was hoping they would introduce something less underwhelming than an iPhone without a home button like you know... a new wearable.
- Tempest1981 9y agoNew watch with cellular: https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-series-3/ https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-series-3/
- acconrad 9y agoMy god that is the longest product advertising page I have ever seen, and that includes those long form ads selling those gimmicky products.
- EasyTiger_ 9y agoI usually enjoy scrolling through Apple's product pages, they're often quite interesting design-wise. This one is way overdone.
- cpeterso 9y agoThe page is so long that I didn't realize it existed. I saw the big "X" logo and assumed the page was still a "coming soon" teaser, so I closed the tab. Only after reading your comment did I realize I needed to scroll to see the content below the fold. :)
- samrohn778 9y ago~15mb !
- foepys 9y agoAnd about 50% of that is just about the camera. Do phone manufacturers still see the camera as the most important thing in their phone? I'd have thought that years of over-promising lowered the customers expectations anyways.
- edflsafoiewq 9y agoIts detection of how far I'd scrolled down was also off; the images kept "popping in" at higher and higher levels on the screen until by half-way down the page they were presumably entirely off-screen because I couldn't see anything else at all. Extremely unpleasant reading experience.
- nunez 9y agoThese keynotes were magical before leakers leaked everything. I'm wondering if Apple should scrap these and aim for smaller, unplanned releases instead. As far as this phone goes, I am really excited to see how it stacks up to the Galaxy S8. Face ID is incredibly enticing, but Samsung Pay is much more universal. The only thing that is making me want to retreat back to an iPhone is its inferior Bluetooth audio quality.
- godzillabrennus 9y agoYeah the leaks gave this entire presentation away. We are at peak Apple. If I may borrow a similar peak story I'd look at Microsoft and the release of Windows XP. Balmer banked on that cash cow for far too long. Tim Cook is doing the same thing here. They need to buy Tesla and put Musk in charge of Apple. Everything they do these days is just another way to milk the money machine for them. They need a world class micromanaging innovator at the helm.
- artursapek 9y agoI don't think Musk would be enticed by the prospect of heading up a company that's focused on animating poop emojis. He's busy saving our species.
- briandear 9y agoReally? Armageddon has been coming for centuries. There is not evidence that humanity is about to be wiped out. Solar panels and electric cars are saving our species? From what? Musk is certainly an inportant innovator, but he’s not a Messiah.
- rootlocus 9y ago> Solar panels and electric cars are saving our species? From what? Global warming
- baby 9y agoThe problem is that a bad release of a novel product will make them uncool and will crash them on the market.
- tcfunk 9y agoSuddenly a 128gb iPhone 6s for $549 sounds like a heck of a deal...
- Kevin_S 9y agoI actually think I might pick one up. In fact I may look for a 2 for 1 deal on the 6s. I'm headed back to Apple after having an Android ever since my IPhone 4, I'm just done with Android. I love my 6s work phone. I think I'll just be choosing between the 6s and a 7.
- tcfunk 9y agoCan I ask what your frustrations are with Android? I was actually thinking about going to the Google Pixel, but it's been a while since I've used an Android phone as my day-to-day device.
- jaytaylor 9y agoI just switched from an iPhone 6 to a Nexus 6P earlier this year and am extremely happy to be free of Apple and onto an OS which is far less hostile to users, imho. Also, another nice thing is that the Android app sizes seem to be about 1/10th the size of comparable iPhone apps.
- justajot 9y agoI'll toss in my experience: Started with the original iPhone, to iPhone 3, to iPhone 4, switched to Android for a few years and the last one I had was the LG G5. The customizability is awesome in Android and I made use of 3rd party launchers to great effect. To me, Android's strength is the ability to get the information you want fast. I'm still frustrated by this aspect with iOS (I have an iPhone 7 Plus now). Android OS UX is streamlined -- I feel like I have to fumble a bit to get to the app / information that I want in iOS. But I went back to iPhone because the interop is better (I use an MBP daily for work/personal), apps are better, battery life is better, camera is better, phone is better, etc. It's just better hardware ... at least compared to my experience with HTC and LG phones.
- 9y ago
- dangjc 9y agoWhy are people comfortable carrying a $1000 piece of equipment that can be dropped or stolen in an instant in their pocket? My Nexus6p takes great pictures, runs everything smoothly, and I don't have to freak out as much if the $350 suddenly vanishes.
- Uhhrrr 9y agoNot thinking about it, or status seeking, or a weighted combination of both.
- dewey 9y agoPeople also drive around in expensive cars on open roads with a lot distracted drivers. You an also get hit in an instant by one person not paying attention. You just have insurance for that, just like you have Apple Care or a similar insurance in case it happens.
- komali2 9y agoI also wonder about, for example, the Maserati I sometime see parked just on the street in Daly City. I have a shitty car and a relatively cheap motorcycle exactly so I can confidently leave them in the city without worrying too much.
- funnelsgun 9y agoApple Care doesn't help if the phone is lost or stolen. However, I'm quite sure that the risk of damaging or losing a phone is much greater than the risk of crashing a car (at least in the UK and Western Europe). Hence, the price of phone insurance against the price of the phone is so much worse than the price of car insurance against the price of the car. Then, does someone become lower risk the more time and experience with a phone, like no claims, age and sex profiling on car insurance, or is the price of insurance the same whether the customer is a 25 or 50 adult male.
- flachsechs 9y agowell, i'm a successful professional that's been working nearly every day for over 20 years, so... if i lost my phone i would simply buy another one. is this a trick question or something? i'm not going to jump into a swimming pool on purpose, but losing my phone isn't something that concerns me.
- jorgemf 9y agowhen the iPhone X SE?
- skc 9y agoI'm wondering if it's easier or harder for cops to forcefully unlock your phone using faceID or touchID
- rosser 9y agoCuff someone, pull their phone out of their pocket, hold it in front of their face. "Is this your phone? Oh, it looks like it is..." How's that Fifth Amendment thing working out for you? EDIT: There's legal precedent that specifically says you can be compelled to unlock your phone with your fingerprint, and that's not "testimonial" (that is, your right against self-incrimination isn't in play). There is zero reason to think FaceID will be treated any differently.
- gist 9y agoThis actually raises an interesting question. I say it's easier to do it since there appears on the surface to be less opportunity to mess up as with touch. Sure you could make a face etc but that just seems easier to do in stealth (not seen by cops as doing so) with a finger. [1] Edit: As only one example you could in theory program a finger that wouldn't typically be used with touch id.
- garethsprice 9y agohttps://www.theverge.com/2017/8/17/16161758/ios-11-touch-id-disable-emergency-services-lock https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/17/16161758/ios-11-touch-id-... Interesting twist. There was advice going around for protestors to disable Touch ID as cops need a warrant for a keycode, but don't for a touch ID. Not sure how accurate that is, but presumably you can disable Face ID if you think you're at risk of being shaken down by the police.
- forgot-my-pw 9y agoWhat exactly is a bionic chip? Is it just the codename?
- gshakir 9y agoApple Watch is the new iPhone. The iPhone is becoming a home computer. Watch it.
- saagarjha 9y agoI'd say iPad is Apple's vision for the home computer.
- mads 9y ago..
- hellofunk 9y ago> I think Apple needs to position themselves as a privacy concerned company They have already been doing this for quite awhile. With their practices on device encryption, public stance on cooperating with police for unlocking devices, etc, they have made it a key differentiating factor between them an Android in many ways. And when it comes to security and privacy, you are incorrect when you say that all phones today are the same. Throughout HN comments for the last couple years, it seems to be widely acknowledged that Apple offers the best privacy of the current mobile industry.
- saagarjha 9y agoI'd say that they already do. Most data is kept on device and whatever is sent to the cloud is end-to-end encrypted.
- mike-cardwell 9y agoIf you want a phone that respects your privacy, take a look at https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
- scarlac 9y agoFellow Scandinavian here. Apple has talked a lot about privacy and security in last couple of years, both on stage and off stage. I'd even go as far ans say it's probably one of the topics they've been most vocal about off-stage. What's your specific privacy concern in relation to the presentation given?
- mortenjorck 9y agoI can understand the compromise of the "notch" for the sensor bar in portrait-oriented UIs. Some thoughtful juggling of the status bar, some added interaction, and you're all set. A reasonable trade-off. What I cannot understand at all is the compromise in landscape mode, for games and video. Rather than just black out the uneven area and limit the drawable area to the largest unbroken rectangle, everything Apple shows appears partially obscured by the notch. The AR game example literally has the notch starting to eat into the UI. In my book, this leaps from "acceptable trade-off" to "bizarre sacrifice." It's like living with a cracked corner of the screen, right out of the box.
- mesozoic 9y agoProbably that's marketing I would expect game developers to rationally use the unobscured portion
- mypalmike 9y agoBut they will use the obscured portion irrationally.
- jmull 9y agoI think it's good to leave that up to the app developer. They can choose to use the space around the notch or crop it.
- dperfect 9y agoIt's not as significant as the notch, but the corners of the display area are also rounded off, so the screen has some fairly interesting effective geometry in terms of viewable pixels. I wonder if the graphics and UI SDKs will have built-in functions to determine where these boundaries are (as they're likely to change in future models), or if developers will just be expected to work around them as best they can.
- ricketycricket 9y ago
- Multicomp 9y agoI can't wait to see the Youtube videos of people 'taking a selfie' just to unlock their iPhones
- pow_pp_-1_v 9y agoBeing that it is the 10th anniversary, I was hoping they will come out with something ground-breaking. iPhone X seems like a good phone. But it's just a better iPhone 7.
- SadWebDeveloper 9y agoFace ID bypass will sure be available Nov 4-5 Also wonder if this "security feature" is NSA-approved, m pretty sure it is.
- Viper007Bond 9y agoBummer about the size. The Plus is a monster to me and I prefer the pocket-happy size of my regular 6.
- TekMol 9y agoBoth the 8 and the X have the pressure sensitivity "3D Touch". Is that actually useful? To the HN users with iPhones: Do you use it?
- suchanl 9y agoHaving used an iPhone with pressure sensitive screen the past year, it remains unused for me, partly because the gesture feels unnatural and partly since most apps don't support it, I dont expect it to do anything.
- scarlac 9y agoYes, I use it all the time. Mainly app-switching and text navigation (3d-touch/force-press on keyboard to enable floating cursor mode). It initially came off as a gimmicky way of 'right clicking' but has evolved into more than that. Software has also been refined since first release.
- jitl 9y ago3D Touch (before called Force Touch) has been in Apple products since 2014. I use it all the time on iPhone 7S, it's a regular part of interacting with the operating system: - force touch an image to view fullscreen - force touch app icons to open a quick menu - force touch buttons in Control Center to open a menu It's like a quicker touch-and-hold action in other operating systems, although sometimes there's also a touch-and-hold action in iOS which can be annoying.
- limeblack 9y agoFeatures I'm curious how they work on the new iPhone. 1) Touch status bar to scroll to the top of the page(my favorite iPhone feature). 2) Locking the screen. I'm assuming the double tap and Siri don't interfere with this.
- tinhangliu 9y agoAm I the only person not excited about the iPhone since the release of the 4s?
- randomfinn 9y agoConsidering their market share, a lot of people have never been excited about them. I think the iPhone excitement is mostly a US thing. For a lot of people here, it was the first smartphone they saw - or even their first mobile device. It's hard to get excited about iPhones when you're used to more modern technology.
- traviswingo 9y agoOff topic. I posted this same link right when the page was live and it got flagged. This seems to be the only iPhone X link on HN now, but was posted 20 mins after mine. What caused mine to be flagged? Not mad, just curious :)
- simantel 9y agoThe TechCrunch/Verge links were on the home page already, so it seems they decided to consolidate into one thread and change the link to the product page.
- lightedman 9y agoGoodbye privacy? A phone that can be unlocked with your face = easy enough for cops to snoop on you. No need for a password, just taking your phone and pointing it at your face unlocks it.
- theshrike79 9y agoOr just pointing your finger at the sensor unlocks it. Same difference. Or you can use the "panic" mode on iOS11 and force it to ask for a passcode.
- lightedman 9y agoMost regular users of iOS products know very little about these kinds of features, they just enable these things without thinking, then I have to explain why its bad. I have this exact kind of talk every other day on a regular basis.
- lightedman 9y agoLooks like the truth hurt the majority of you too much. This is fact in the life of an electronics repair tech, so much so that it should be written as a law. Most users have ZERO CLUE. They don't read a manual. They piddle around until they get what they want working and tend to stop there, and go no further. Oh, and panic mode? Cop sees you doing that, you've obviously got something to hide and they can act then and there. Not a very smart move. This is reality. You may not like it, but you're part of the reason it is what it is.
- krishicks 9y agoHas anyone seen anything about how to get it not to unlock automatically with your face when you look at it? I have bus times on my lock screen, one swipe to the left away. That seems to become obsolete if the phone automatically unlocks when I look at it. Additionally, swiping up from the bottom is the single least effective swipe for me. Pulling up Control Center fails for me more often than not, with the little "looking for me?" rectangular handle popping up on the bottom, and still it doesn't work well. I wonder also what this means for screenshots; with no Home Button to push along with the power button, what do you do? And what do those screenshots even look like, given the ears at the top of the display?
- DennisAleynikov 9y agoIt actually only unlocks but does not go home until you do the new home button gesture which is swiping from the bottom. Nothing to be worried about
- partiallypro 9y agoIt, like Windows Hello, doesn't "unlock" until you swipe up. You can still do things from the lock screen without unlocking it.
- boobsbr 9y agoSeems like all these features were previously available on Android phone for (quite) some time: - "bezel-less" display - wireless charging - no hardware buttons on the front - facial recognition - dual cameras Not to downplay the quality engineering of Apple, but this seems like a big "meh..." to me. A lot of hype for stuff that is commonplace.
- masklinn 9y agoI… don't disagree with the "meh" though software buttons and no buttons on the face are pretty different results. And dual camera was added on the 7+ last year (though it was hardly a first back then, IIRC LG and Huawei had dual-camera models in early '16).
- boobsbr 9y agoWasn't there a phone with dual cameras for capturing stereographic pictures?
- riazrizvi 9y agoIt would be awesome if they could use the facial recognition feature to eliminate the problem with spurious landscape/portrait mode switches when you are lying in bed, reading the phone at an angle.
- amluto 9y agoThe dimensions seem much more focused on aesthetics than functionality to me. Being mostly thin doesn't seem to buy much when the camera sticks out. Why not make it uniformly thick and increase the battery capacity? For those of us who enjoy one handed use, the SE still seems unmatched.
- patzol 9y agoAlthough iPhone X is a beautiful device and depth camera will have many innovative applications, I'm so disappointed with iPhone 8(plus). There is barely any difference with iPhone 7(plus). As for wireless charging - seems like charging pad will be available only next year and you will have to spend extra money. Considering rumored problems with iPhone X production and starting shipping it beginning november I would expect their year to year sales go down.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- syntaxing 9y agoI'm pretty curious about the new AI chip that Apple might put in their phone. If the integration with Core ML works well, it might lead to a series of new interesting apps.
- myrandomcomment 9y agoMeh. I still have a 6P. I will pick up used 7 now (as there is always a ton for sale after a new iPhone) so I can use the NFC for the Tokyo subway. The face thing to unlock to pay is a non-starter for me.
- wiz21c 9y ago>>> Reveal your inner panda, pig, or robot. Ok, I stopped there. Now let's talk about the sociological impact of Apple.
- floatboth 9y ago"The Waldo Moment" (Black Mirror) comes to mind. Also speaking of Black Mirror, the first episode specifically, and the real world news story that reminded everyone of that episode… I'm sure David Cameron would love to unleash his inner pig :D
- mrfusion 9y agoHow do you check notifications with your face? Or switch songs while jogging? Seems like it would unlock as soon as you look at it?
- theshrike79 9y agoJust like with TouchID, it _unlocks_, but actually going to the home screen requires a press of the button.
- ppeetteerr 9y agoYou can lift it or tap the screen to show the locked screen. Your face will only unlock the device, it will not bring up the home screen.
- callesgg 9y agoThat is some extraordinary marketing. I just want it. But i know i have absolutely no need for it.
- nickpp 9y agoIs it Pentile?!
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoI really wanted to see this turn the iPhone X into the primary computer for all things - replace the MBP and the iPad line. Dock to screen/keyboard etc... so that everything is just running off of the phone. That would be a perfect jump off point to AR glasses with the phone as the computing engine in 2020. It would let Apple re-focus, kill a bunch of product lines and swallow the market with a singular device + robust peripheral market.
- mrfusion 9y agoIf it's using steel does that mean it will be magnetnetic? That would be neat to attach it to my wall. And it would open up a lot of options for car holders.
- komali2 9y agoI grew up in a time when "Magnets + Screens = NO! BAD!" Is this not the case anymore? Like, I get freaked out when my girlfriend attaches her magnetized Surface Pro pen to her SP4. Even the macbook magnetized chargers freak me out. Is this just poorly learned behavior that's no longer relevant?
- tgb 9y agoOnly if they wanted it to be: stainless steel is not significantly ferromagnetic. My guess is they don't want it to be magnetic but I can't think of a good reason other than "that's not what phones are like".
- chorsestudios 9y agoI am surprised they didn't change the included lighting <-> USB cable to USB C. Out of the box still incompatible with the MacBook Pro, and forced to use dongles/adapters.
- sneak 9y agoWhy do you ever need to plug your iPhone into your mac?
- chorsestudios 9y agoTo program iPhone apps. AFAIK, Until the recent Xcode beta you couldn't push code wirelessly to your iPhone, and even now the feature in the Xcode beta is pretty slow. Also I enjoy charging my iPhone with my macs. For a company that takes pride in seamless connectivity within their ecosystem I find it surprising that you cannot buy an iPhone + MacBook Pro and connect them without adapters.
- sneak 9y agoYou absolutely can; just not with the cables they ship with. There are lightning to usb-c cables available from both Apple and others now.
- jgeerts 9y agoTake a backup or charge it for example.
- ianburrell 9y agoI am surprised that they still only include a 5W charger. Especially when they advertise fast charging with the 29W charger. Would have been good time to include 15W USB-C charger and USB-C to Lightning cable.
- B1FF_PSUVM 9y agoI'm still sorry for the things we'll be missing with the loss of Metro Design, now lying in its deathbed in Windows 10 Mobile. Wish Apple had the balls to just plain steal it, the iPhone home screen nowadays seems from last century.
- trhway 9y agoI think Jobs would be throwing it into aquarium until the black notch bar is removed. After looking at those photos the notch is pain in the eyes and pure abomination.
- gigatexal 9y agowhat a whole lot of meh regarding the Iphone X. The watch series 3 though, that I am getting.
- leeoniya 9y ago> Your face is now your password no, it isnt. and neither are your fingerprints. none of this publicly available data is a password. a password is something i can change if it gets compromised. a password is secure from others. biometric data is a username/id. why do companies insist on getting this shit backwards?
- pwython 9y ago"My v̶o̶i̶c̶e̶ face is my passport. Verify me." 'Sneakers' had it right. Consider it more of a "passport."
- sjwright 9y ago> biometric data is a username/id. Which is why it's called "Touch ID" and "Face ID".
- eCa 9y ago> Your face is now your password. That's a direct quote from the product page.
- jasonkostempski 9y agoYet they behave like a password.
- dkonofalski 9y agoNo they don't. They behave like a username/password combination. A username is an individual identifier and a password is a confirmation that the identifier is valid for the person it's identifying. TouchID and FaceID confirm both - that it's the correct user that has access and that the user is who they say they are.
- haswell 9y agoIt's important to note that in the context of these Apple features, "ID" is for "Identification", not some kind of "User ID" used as a Username. Username != ID.
- pilom 9y agoI'm bothered by the move to TouchID and now FaceID from a "the government can make you unlock your phone" standpoint. Legally, the precedent is that the government can force you to use "something you are" like your face or fingerprint to unlock your phone. Currently there is at least some ambiguity to the precedents that say they can't require you to unlock your phone with "something you know" like a pin or password because of that could be construed as self-incrimination and forbidden by the bill of rights. If you're worried about law enforcement requiring you to unlock your phone DO NOT USE TOUCHID OR FACEID.
- Y7ZCQtNo39 9y agoI'm pretty sure turning the device off and on requires a passcode.
- mixmastamyk 9y agoNot always possible if law enforcement is breathing down your neck.
- MBCook 9y agoNew iOS feature: tap the side button 5 times to disable biometrics until a passcode is entered again.
- mixmastamyk 9y agoI saw that. Could still imagine not being able to do it in time.
- MBCook 9y agoTrue but at that point I think you'd have the same problems with touch ID. This really seems like the argument to not use biometrics at all, not a specific issue with Face ID.
- veeragoni 9y agoThe phone is definitely 2017. But I would like to condemn those who say its futuristic. Whats so futuristic about it?! is it foldable? Is it wearable? Does it generate holographic images, Does it at least project to wall for larger display? Does the battery lasts a week? They could have placed a touchID on the back(well, may be next iPhone). You might say, I am asking way too much in 2017. Yes I am! Thats why its not futuristic.
- mrsmee89 9y agoPerhaps the UX needs to be felt in person but it feels like a way worse UX than before. It seems Apple is losing sight of the question which IMO should define the choices we make when it comes to technology. Does it make peoples lives better? I don't see how this phone does. It feels like apple made something for the purpose of making people want it. It's un-apple like.
- pi-rat 9y agoSo, how do you snap a screenshot without the home button?
- Tempest1981 9y agohttps://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/298203/how-to-take-a-screenshot-on-iphone-x https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/298203/how-to-take...
- hysan 9y agoSo a lot of times I show my phone to my friends when they ask about the time or if I get a quick message I want to show them on the notifications screen. With Face ID, would this trigger a wrong face recognition? If so, I can see this potentially locking me out as I rarely use my phone when I'm out with groups of people. Touch ID worked a lot better in terms of fine grain control, so this move to Face ID makes me wonder how many different edge cases were considered in this design decision.
- hatcherdogg 9y agoGreat concept. I'll take the revised XS later, and an 8 now.
- oliv__ 9y agoSo with FaceId being able to unlock my phone at any time, does that mean it will be filming everything, all the time, waiting to detect a face?
- brailsafe 9y agoAnyone else experience major issues with the website? It's inscrutable to me with the scroll based parallax nonsense breaking horribly.
- kristjankalm 9y ago> The most powerful and smartest chip ever in a smartphone, with a neural engine that’s capable of up to 600 billion operations per second. sorry but "neural engine" is just too funny. i mean there's normal levels of bullshit bingo and then there's branding your chip "neural engine".
- drcongo 9y agoCan we call that notch what it is please, a monobrow.
- jasonjayr 9y agoIn the disclaimer: > iPhone X is splash, water, and dust resistant and was tested under controlled laboratory conditions with a rating of IP67 under IEC standard 60529. Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Do not attempt to charge a wet iPhone; refer to the user guide for cleaning and drying instructions. Liquid damage not covered under warranty. I wish they had enough confidence in their water resistance that they would cover water damage to some degree in the warranty ...
- wffurr 9y agoSeems crazy that they have no less than eight models of iPhone available at once: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ Why are the 6S and 6S Plus still there? Why no love for the iPhone SE? It's now two entire generations of processor behind.
- sealthedeal 9y agoIs it just me, or did the main speaker talking about the products just kind of kill the buzz. I think they need to have Tim Cook do the walkthroughs. These "other guys" made it seem like they didnt even believe what they were saying. Like they were saying it off a prompt, not because they actually felt it...
- LeicaLatte 9y agoThe only way to stop someone from unlocking your device by just pointing it at your face is to close your eyes. Dealbreaker.
- oregondan 9y agoThat's funny, Apple pulled a Microsoft and skipped 9 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- blaincate 9y agoJust Realized : Face recognition unlock : Biggest Security Scare - Case 1 : Imagine crossing security check or border crossing. Guards just take your phone and point it to you : UNLOCKED . No need to resis to give passwd - Case 2 : drug the activist and point unconscious victim ! Voila ! - Case 3 : Steal the phone, and change the cover and flash it in front of the real owner ! could go on and on ...
- kevinchen 9y agoAll these problems exist with fingerprints too. At least Face ID requires you to look at the phone before it unlocks.
- masterleep 9y agoI'd pay $200 to get rid of the haptic home button. Always hated the feel of that thing.
- LeicaLatte 9y agoExpecting the iPhone X to be delayed beyond November. The phone isn't cooked enough yet and I think they have announced it prematurely.
- Mikho 9y agoThe notch is really not that good UX. All that elaborations and tricks to show it or hide, to fit in there notifications. If you go bezel-less, one of the best options now is Xiaomi Mi Mix 2. There are already reviews on YouTube. I'd say it is the best configuration yet for that type of a phone. Also, it's worth to consider that it is already the second iteration after the first Mi Mix. http://www.mi.com/mix2/ http://www.mi.com/mix2/
- Exuma 9y agoWhat do you do if you want to go to a costume party? Lol
- thomastjeffery 9y agoSo a neutered 2K screen, and an x% faster APU... How is this worth over $999?
- Illniyar 9y agoI know that a ton of people swear by the iPhone, and it will probably be a hit no matter what, but every new one that comes up all I can think of is how much good UX they sacrificed for the shake of having a better looking product. One button without an always on back button was already a turnoff for me, but no button at all? at least android has swipe from the bottom. FaceID instead of TouchId will remove a lot of use cases people got used to - no longer answering texts in meetings anyone?
- gallerdude 9y agoYou can just type in your passcode, no?
- johnward 9y agoAs an Android user I'm still kind of interested in this phone. One thing that bothers me on most phones is the camera sticking out the back. It ends up being the point of contact to every surface you sit it on and sometimes the camera glass breaks.
- mrmondo 9y agoI very much appreciate the OLED high contrast, wide colour display. I have yet not watched the release and read the technical details but I am more than slightly concerned about “Your face becomes your password”, while it’s obviously optional so security conscious people by no means have to use it, I’m not confident that it’s a sensible idea to promote the widespread use of what is known not to be a secure, private piece of information that you can change or choose not to use. However, in my opinion Apple is by far one of, it not the most security conscious large corporate manufacturer of hardware and software and generally tries to know as little about your personal data and promote encryption (FileVault, forced phone encryption etc) as much as possible while maintaining practical use for general public. So I am very interested to see what makes this so different from Samsung/Google’s failed and easily bypassed face unlocking they were very vocal about but ultimately was an embarrassing security and PR failure.
- amelius 9y ago> Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen. (...) Say hello to the future. Haven't we seen such phones from other companies already a thousand times over?
- VeejayRampay 9y agoI don't understand why the website keeps repeating "it's all screen" even though the phone is not all screen. I own a entry-level Motorola G5S, never owned a Samsung before so not fanboying here, but their phones strike me more as "all screen" than this iPhone X. Am I missing something?
- perseusprime11 9y agoThey should rename this to iPhone N (N for Notch).
- rpowers 9y agoSo many people pre-complaining about some actually neat stuff. The screen looks fine, stoked about the HDR10. Portraits will looks really nice. Wireless charging is a big plus. I think this will be a great phone.
- amelius 9y agoIt seems the camera sticks out at the back. This would mean it's not possible to put the phone stably on a flat surface. Is this true?
- jimbert 9y agoHow do Muslim women that cover their faces use this phone?
- umanwizard 9y agoYou don't have to turn FaceID on -- you can continue using a normal passcode.
- nadim 9y agoHuge shout out to RZA, for making it into that Keynote.
- d--b 9y agoEverybody is discussing the features like they've already bought it. But I find that literally none of the features of the X make sense over the 7, or the 6 even. Maybe a lot of people said this before but to me that's it. The iPhone X event should be remembered as the event when Apple jumped the shark.
- valine 9y agoThe A11 is a massive leap forward over the 6 and 7, that alone is a pretty big reason to upgrade.
- jlarocco 9y agoMeh. I'm surprised they bumped the version to "X" for this. Not every release can be amazing, but this is just an incremental hardware upgrade with some features taken out. Meanwhile, they haven't fixed any of the most infuriating and annoying iOS bugs, and don't seem to have any plans to do so...
- swsh 9y agoBy not marketing it as a replacement for the 7, Apple has managed to significantly bump the price of the device with barely anyone the wiser. Anyone hazard a guess at the increase in apples profit margin on the X. The price appears to have gone up significantly, for a comparatively small increase in BOM cost. Even if you question their design decisions, it's hard to fault their product strategy
- limaoscarjuliet 9y agoDoes face recognition mean my twin brother can use my phone to pay for his beer? BTW, wondering how fast until there is "3D print you GF face so you can unlock her phone" service. I see Ali Express business booming.
- ericlewis 9y agothey explicitly talk about how they worked with extremely detailed mask makers to ensure that sort of thing doesn't happen.
- sigjuice 9y agoThey already butchered the MacBook Pro with the TouchBar last year. And all for a 30 second demo during the keynote. Here's hoping that FaceID actually works and isn't FacePalmID :/
- nunez 9y agoRe: black bar. For what it's worth, folks that reviewed the Essential Phone said that the notch on the top does "go away" after using it for a few days. What I am more disappointed about is Apple not going with a curved display. It looks amazing on the S8 and taking it edge to edge would have made for an incredible bezel-less illusion.
- mzzter 9y agoWow, it's not aluminum..
- alexnewman 9y agoWelp staying with my SE
- elorant 9y agoIt's funny how the thread has three times more comments that votes. It's like everyone is in a rush to say something but they forget to upvote the story. Shouldn't upvoting be automatic when you comment in a thread?
- larodi 9y agoNo, it shouldn't. Because you may still want to comment on a story, so to say a part of it stinks in a very bad way. Something that IMHO is what most commentators are doing here, and for reason. By no means am I going to up-vote the latest apple bullsh*t, but will happily take time to read through the stuff and even drop a line.
- danielrmay 9y agoI don't think posting a comment necessarily means you value it as a submission
- nom 9y agoSo how secure is FaceID actually? It does a 3d scan like the Microsoft Kinect and maybe gathers some more light information in the infrared sprectrum, but that can easily be circumvented with advanced 3D printing. They even demonstrate that it recognizes you with facial modification like a new beard, a new haircut or a new pair of glasses. By bet it that this technology is totally overblown and circumvented quickly.
- vernie 9y agoIt's likely exactly like a Kinect since they acquired PrimeSense in 2013.
- MBCook 9y agoThey said it's 20 times more secure than touch ID, which since it uses more data I could believe. They also said that they got special-effects artists and other things to work on it and try and make it hard to track. I imagine it's going to take a lot more than a simple 3D printed head to trick. We all knew as soon as this phone is released people are going to start trying to break this, it should be fun to see what people find.
- cududa 9y agoWith the Kinect "sign in to profile with your face" we made sure the person had a heartbeat - there's minute color fluctuations in your face that actually allow you to discern heart rate/ BPMs. That was using primesense. Apple bought primesense. I'm sure they're doing something similar
- zaroth 9y agoThey make is so easy to login to the phone -- I'm still waiting for the ability to add multiple users. When I hand my phone to my daughter she should see her apps, my son, his. And when I hand my phone to my wife, she should unlock it and see.... her phone. If 256GB local storage and 11ac WiFi isn't enough storage and bandwidth to make this easy, I would be OK if it only kept the last GB of the camera roll. Of course this sync should happen directly between our devices when they are on the same network. No need to go through the cloud. By default if her phone rings it should only alert on her primary device. Unless she authenticates to my device at which point everything is there waiting. If her phone was ringing and she picks up my device and authenticates it should answer the call. Ideally this is all smooth enough that we have matching devices and don't care which one either of us walks out of the house with. The end game is that when networks are fast enough, the cloud mature enough, and homomorphic encryption performant, we get to the point where the phone basically lives in the cloud and anyone can pick up any iDevice, authenticate, and be looking at effectively their own device.
- zaroth 9y agoI mean, just to expand on this.... there's no explicit sync, and no explicit backup. It's always synced. It's always backed up. Imagine you walk into an Apple Store and pick up the latest iPhone XV. And there you are looking at your phone, your contacts, your apps, everything. Underneath, it's a virtual shim. In the first instant it's merely grabbing thumbnails of all your apps and notification metadata so it can "look right". As you click in, scroll around, you polyfill data as you need it. Obviously in some cases a more substantial download would be needed, so you may not be able to pop into an AR game with 1GB of assets within the first 10 seconds of picking up the device, but if your primary is on the LAN you could bring the necessary data locally in ~5 seconds from tapping the icon. Underneath it's doing something analogous to "docker run" on that apps image. In some cases this would lock the image from running concurrently on another device, in other cases multi-master could be fully supported with live sync of the backing stream, e.g. for Apple Mail.
- sanbor 9y agoBu you would have 1:1000000 chances to get into someone elses phone. With 7 billion people in the world it's not so crazy.
- liberte82 9y agoI can already tell I'm soon going to be very tired of the word notch. It's starting to feel like the tartlets from Seinfeld.
- billconan 9y agoDoes anybody know if there is an api to access the raw depth data of the truedepth camera?
- Taniwha 9y agoI'm going to train future face recognition phone to only work if I close one eye and stick my tongue out ... the border guards will never guess
- drama-queen 9y agoTelescreen X! Now with an improved backdoor!! Buy now!!!
- jtl999 9y agoI hope the OLED display used in the iPhone X doesn't use PWM, unlike Samsung. LG OLED TV's seem nice as well, although I haven't looked at them for a long period of time.
- kasabali 9y agoGood luck with that considering they're using Samsung panels.
- IgorPartola 9y agoUgh. So wireless charging is great. I really wanted that because having tried some Qi cases and charging gear, it is pretty magical. And the decision to use a glass back makes sense there. However, Apple seems to just forget that people use their damn phones in cars. Waze is my GPS because no matter how much my car's built in GPS tries, it's not going to be as good as a thing connected to the internet. And in the car I hate to use the damn charger, so yay wireless charging right? Not so fast. Your choices are limited to a big clunky clamp style holder, or a little tiny magnetic holder that usually goes over one of the vents. Guess what? Magnetic holders don't work with wireless charging. Or rather they could, but the ones I've tried (available on Amazon) were complete shit that broke almost immediately. There are several options to fix this problem: a. Car manufacturers could include some kind of standard solution to this. At the least they could make a spot to easily mount a phone and make sure it doesn't obscure the driver's view too much while still being visible. Instead they keep insisting on adding bigger and bigger screens. Sometimes they'll go as far as adding a touch screen (looking at you Tesla) for no goddamn reason. Just give me a nice place to put an aftermarket phone cradle. Or at least don't add a 22" monitor where I want to put one. b. Apple and/or Samsung could lead the industry in making wirelessly charging magnetic car mounts. It's not impossible to do, and magnets would actually help align the phone so charging is efficient wrt the induction coil used. Sure it has a nice glass back, but who gives a crap if I now need to add an ugly rubber case with a 2.5" steel washer to it just to get it mounted? I get that Apple thinks CarPlay is their long term solution to this. But I think universal adoption by car manufacturers on that one is probably at least 5 years away. And even so, lifetime of older cars is like what 15-20 years? This is why we can't have nice things.
- wrboyce 9y agoBMW (at least, I can't speak for other car manufacturers) do have a wireless charging pad type thing inside the centre console. You do realise the phone can still be charged with a cable, right?
- IgorPartola 9y agoI know BMW has that. The point of their thing is that you can't use the phone while it's in there. They have "apps" that connect to their display. It's complete crap. Of course you can charge with a cable. But you shouldn't. Wireless only charging would be fantastic. They already got rid of the headphone jack. Why do we need a data port? Also, having a dedicated spot on the dashboard would mean not having to run dangling cables all over the place.
- ransom1538 9y agoHey question. Currently, if an officer has you under arrest they go through your phone. With a strong password, they tend to give up. With FaceID wont they just put it to your face and unlock it?
- rezashirazian 9y agoI think it won't unlock if you close your eyes.
- romanovcode 9y agoThey can always beat you until you give your password.
- pducks32 9y agoI thought Tim and the whole team did a great job presenting. And the whole company on every team did a fantastic job making every single piece easy to use. The iPhone X seems like a step forward in phones. I’ve used a number of androids and can say that the usability just isn’t there.
- dylan-m 9y agoSo does it bug anyone else that the status bar around the notch looks misaligned? The rounded corners make me feel think it's sticking out past the bottom of the notch, and there's this huge empty space above it. Especially weird with the clock. Maybe it's one of those things that looks better in person.
- sengork 9y agoI find it fascinating how hard Apple make it to find the battery capacity (mAh or Wh) for iPhones. My understanding is that they do not want people to make a direct mAh capacity comparison to competing phones on the basis that iPhone can "squeeze out" more out of the smaller battery thanks to optimisations.
- pcurve 9y agoYeah I noticed that... But I don't think that worked out too well for the new mac book with much smaller battery.
- maruhan2 9y agoRather off-topic question. How do you make an animation via scrolling like their "X"?
- syspec 9y agoScale an element up (the X), while scaling another down (the device). Place both inside a position fixed/sticky container and interpolate between scaleStart scaleEnd as a ratio of how much has scrolled. More to it than that from what I see here, but that will get you started
- nodesocket 9y agoDo we have any idea what carriers like Verizon will charge to lease the X? I am currently paying $109 all in for 4GB of data and unlimited calls and txt. Phone is iPhone 7 128GB.
- retox 9y agoNo information about RAM or CPU speed/cores?
- LouisSayers 9y agoAnd in future news: "Celebrity gets iPhone stolen. Naked photos unlocked at wax museum." :D
- zeep 9y ago"Our vision has always been to create an iPhone that is entirely screen" so the iPhone 2x will have no speaker or camera in the front... or they will be behind the screen.
- aphextron 9y agoI'm pretty impressed and blown away honestly that Apple chose to support Qi wireless charging over coming up with some proprietary nonsense. This might be the killer feature that finally gets me to upgrade.
- sengork 9y agoI am guessing this had something to do with Steve Jobs no longer being there. More freedom for choosing technologies.
- sengork 9y agoWould genuinely love to know the reasoning behind the negative votes. Steve's departure has certainly changed the company in the past.
- grzm 9y agoI suspect only because speculation alone is getting to be tiresome at this point. There are so many comments that say this or that about how Apple isn't the same because Steve Jobs isn't there. What would be interesting is someone really digging into this, looking many different aspects of Apple since it's inception. Otherwise it's just not substantive and can come off as lazy at this point. Like I said, that's all speculation. From what I can tell based on the shade of gray of your comment, you received at most a couple of down votes. It's really hard to distinguish between something meaningful and noise here, particularly in a hot-topic thread like this one. At the end of the day, I think I'd just make a small mental note but otherwise just chalk it up as collateral damage in a heated thread.
- sengork 9y agoInteresting nevertheless, appreciate your reply. This is the first time Apple have given in to OLED displays and wireless charging (and a standardised one even) - both relatively old technologies [1] which were at their disposal during Steve's time. From what I've seen the corporate secrecy at Apple will make such conclusive investigation next to impossible. What I often think of is NeXT and Steve's return that saved Apple in the 1990s. [1] http://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_taunts_apple_list_android_firsts-news-27223.php http://www.gsmarena.com/qualcomm_taunts_apple_list_android_f...
- Dravidian 9y agoPeople who use 1000$ iPhoneX on office desk need another 400$ apple Watch to check for notifications.
- tanilama 9y agoNo desire to buy one. Even it is well within my range of purchase power, this shit is expensive as hell.
- ricokatayama 9y agoRounded Corners, Rounded Corners Everywhere! Let's watch Spider-Man with a rounded screen
- banach 9y agoI was surprised not to see a reconstruction of your own face as one of the animoji options. More than a novelty, it could be very valuable possession to a family member, after someone passes away.
- asafira 9y agoOne of the most distinguishing features of the phone is the vertical orientation of the backside cameras --- anyone else realize this is likely because their forward facing sensor bar is likely in the way if the backside cameras were horizontal? A few other quick notes: 1) Those short x-ray shots of the iPhone camera assembly look impressive. I wonder how many components and extremely-fine-scale positioning have to go into the lens system (especially since they have to move! =) ) 2) The lack of TouchID seems like a hardware regression to me, but I'd feel more or less confident in that based on the actual experience of FaceID vs TouchID. On a separate note: the engineers working on that must be paid boatloads given how valuable they must be to the company, combining both machine learning + security knowledge. (Not easy to find people like that.) 3) The screen is nice. I don't understand why people are complaining about the screen extending "behind" the front-facing sensorbar, to be honest --- seems like a tiny, fixable detail in the scheme of things 4) I really think people will buy this phone for the camera, and not for many of the other features that were advertised. (not AR, not awesome graphics, not amazing aluminum and glass, etc.) 5) Anyone know what usage has been like for Force Touch? I always was under the impression that it wasn't that popular, but kudos to Apple for not dropping it and still believing in it.
- wrboyce 9y agoI can only speak of my own usage, but I use Force Touch a fair bit. The first use case that comes to mind (and one I use fairly often) is changing the torch brightness but the app shortcuts are handy too (also force push on a folder with notifications for quick access to the apps with notifications within it).
- ratsz 9y agogeometric data is a username, not a password
- rurban 9y agoDid they botch the Mac Air upgrade similar to the Pro now? Or is it still usable?
- makecheck 9y agoI kind of wish the "home screen line" at the bottom was a big long thick rounded line to mirror the notch on top. That would make the notch a lot less jarring. In the screenshots the "normal" UI seems to never use the bottom space anyway.
- bsenftner 9y agoCouple of issues here, speaking as a facial recognition developer, of arguably one of the leaders in the industry. 1) The use of 3D data is a step in the right direction, but to use it reliably it has to constantly re-calibrate to the individual(s) it is supposed to pass. This is very important and a constant issue if using a person's 3D depth data as their face for authentication. My employer pioneered the use of 3D data for facial recognition, via 3D reconstruction, before scanning and depth cameras were feasible. In doing so, we became aware of the significant variation an individual's 3D facial form undergoes during any time period: different times of the day, yes, significant 3D facial form transformation; different days, definitely. Females significantly more, as they experience 3D form transformations simply from their menstrual cycle. Men who drink, less so than women, also gain significant facial form transformations on a weekly basis. Over the course of a season, everyone undergoes significant 3D form transitions, to the degree authentication is not reliable unless constant re-calibration occurs. Which introduces issues of system failure after indeterminate lapses of use, or sudden physical transformation - such as an accident, where your face is swollen. A person could be attacked, and their face altered to the degree their phone no longer authenticates. A person could fast for 2 days, not use their phone, and it will no longer pass. 2) They should be using multiple biometrics for authentication. The facial image in combination with the depth information, if treated separately with completely separate verification trained algorithms, only counts as two biometrics. Reliable authentication of a device attached to one's credit cards and finances requires a MINIMUM of 3 biometrics. They could solve that with the addition of Touch-ID or the addition of a pass code in addition to the face image and the face 3D depth data. But that borders on 'inconvenience', and I feel consumer pleasing stupidity. Sometimes being safe should require an extra step, simply so the consumer has the assurance their data is safe. It's like hearing the click as the lock on your door seals. Too automatic, and it's insecure because one never knows if it is active. However, ignoring the face as authentication, the iPhone just became a very slick 3D avatar creator.
- mstolpm 9y agoAd 1): They briefly mentioned in the keynote that Face ID does indeed adapts to gradual changes like growing a beard. So, that form of recalibration seems to be part of the concept.
- yellowapple 9y agoDidn't we already learn 20 years ago that if an Apple product ends in an X, virtually nobody will actually say it like the X is a Roman numeral? Or am I a transplant from that weird parallel universe with "Mack Oh Ess Ecks" and the Berenstein Bears?
- halfnibble 9y agoSwipe gestures, a steel frame, and a higher ppi screen. It sounds like the iPhone may have finally caught up with my BlackBerry Passport SE. Maybe I'll give the iPhoneX a try.
- kk_cz 9y agoWho knows, maybe in few years we'll have the "first ever" smartphone with physical keyboard
- madshiva 9y ago$ 1200 for a brick and people still buy this crap phone. All people who buy this phone should be ashamed. Stop wasting the earth. Thanks.
- CreMindES 9y agoFor me, the tweet of the day https://twitter.com/moia/status/907706685266915328 https://twitter.com/moia/status/907706685266915328 :)
- martijn_himself 9y agoI'm more than happy to pay £1k for the iPhone X if it docks and I'm able to use it as a Mac Mini running MacOS. It should be powerful enough.
- Bogi30 9y agoPrice of this phone wtf is this in my country cost 1200 euro this cheaper version :/ http://blendberg.com/pl/oferta-bazy-danych-gotowe-bazy-danych-baza-firm-europejskich-dania http://blendberg.com/pl/oferta-bazy-danych-gotowe-bazy-danyc...
- amelius 9y agoWhy don't we have unlock you phone with your watch? Or unlock a desktop with your watch? Or enter a password on a website with your watch? Sounds more useful and secure to me than any fingerprint/facial scanner. And it allows Apple to sell more watches.
- wrboyce 9y ago> Or unlock a desktop with your watch? This is a thing, has been for a while.
- mattacular 9y agoWouldn't that involve implementing some sort of remote unlocking scheme which is basically what Apple publicly fought/denied the FBI?
- alex_duf 9y agoThe OLED screen and the gesture based UI makes me think about the Nokia N9. Loved that phone.
- rebootthesystem 9y agoYet another iPhone design that offers no real value to consumers. Apple design has gone off the rails. I've been running an iPhone 4S, yes, the 2011 iPhone version, precisely for this reason. I don't care about thinner, so I didn't jump on the 5,6,7,8. I want a user replaceable battery. I want a drop-it-in-the-pool waterproof design. I could not care less about display pixel count. In six years I have never looked at my 4S and said "Wow, this thing needs more pixels". Along the same lines, I never said "I wish the display wrapped around the edges". Talk about a non-value feature. Home button? I can find it without having to look at the display. These phones need more buttons, not less. I want the camera to be in the damn middle of the phone, not the edges which forces you to grab it in really weird and uncomfortable ways. And add a dedicated camera shutter button! I want a designed-from-the-factory solution to multiple lenses on the camera. Now the TSA can just point the phone at my face to unlock it. Thanks for actually reducing the security of my device. No thank you. I want a device I can hand to my kids, a friend or colleague and not have to be concerned with any of them accessing apps and data they shouldn't. A programmable "Private Mode" button on the side, like the mute button would be a fantastic way to do this without having to navigate menus on the touch screen. Press and hold (or something like that) and it presents you with your programmed mode (Kid, Friend, Stranger) on the screen, tap, done. Password required to get out of this mode. Press and hold private mode button, enter password, done. I want a device with a real fucking USB port that I can connect to any computer and fully interact with it. That means transfer files back and forth, copy-and-past bidirectionally, fully remote control with the mouse and type with my computer keyboard. I want a device that becomes an extension of my computer. It should feel as natural as possible without adding cognitive load to the interaction. I want a device with an open non-sandboxed interface (USB or RS-232) that can become a controller for other devices. I should not have to buy custom chips from Apple to use it. I want to be able to plug it into a bunch of things and use the phone as a terminal or controller. I want to be able to write my own software without having to seek approval from an overlord. It's OK if this software is sandboxed. Let people decide, as the phone users, what privileges and access they wish to grant uncured software. I want a damn standard audio interface. Yes, that means a headphone jack. There's more but I'll stop there. iPhone X, as far as I am concerned, is a result of mental masturbation on the part of the designers rather than a true attempt to add value for end users. Not going there unless I absolutely must. And given that I no-longer develop iPhone apps it looks like I can skip this model as well. Let's see how long the 4S lasts. So far, so good.
- nojvek 9y agoI'm just excited the GPU'S are getting faster in a mobile device. I really wanted Apple to have more pixel density in their iPhone X. 2000+ do would mean that we can wear an iPhone as a head set and have a descent VR experience.