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16-inch MacBook Pro
- romanovcode 7y ago$2,399 For escape key - Not bad. Maybe next year we'll get full keyboard for $3,399!
- 8draco8 7y agoTo be fair it's a bit more than just ESC key.
- Clubber 7y agoI ordered one. It will be replacing my 2017 with a swollen battery and messed up keyboard. I'm worried I'm throwing good money after bad, but hopefully the MacBook Pro is back on it's game. I'll be taking the 2017 to the Apple store and get them to fix it up under their keyboard (and hopefully battery) replacement program.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- chinhodado 7y ago> Featuring a new Magic Keyboard with a redesigned scissor mechanism and 1mm travel for a more satisfying key feel, the 16-inch MacBook Pro delivers the best typing experience ever in a Mac notebook. Feels like they claim "best typing experience" every time they release a new laptop.
- JoeAltmaier 7y agoMaybe because they started out so low, and there was a long way to go with improvements.
- nailer 7y agoMy 2015 era MBA was great. They just screwed up, and told us they fixed it so many times it doesn't matter if they've actually fixed it this time (which they may have - https://marco.org/media/2019/11/mbp16-graph.png https://marco.org/media/2019/11/mbp16-graph.png - we'll see in a few months) because we don't believe them. Typing this on a Surface with WSL2.
- CydeWeys 7y agoAnd it's never true (or hasn't been for awhile at least). It's clear they're engineering for thinness above all else, usability be damned. I'm typing on a 2014-era Macbook Pro right now and I doubt any new scissor keys are gonna feel better than this. All of the newer Macbook Pros I've typed on have been terrible.
- bluedino 7y agoMany people find the old keyboard to be mushy after using the butterfly for a while
- schuke 7y agoI bought my 2019 mbp specifically for the keyboard. It’s like a very shallow mechanical keyboard.
- pdimitar 7y agoI've been interested in thin mechanical keyboards on laptops for a while now. Do all 2019 models have it?
- AaronFriel 7y agoIf my peers experience is any indication, they all have the switches that break spontaneously and keys that start double-entering, stop working, or even detach from the keyboard. I expect that their laptops won't have any working keys at 1 year of use.
- jeremymcanally 7y agoThis one is 2% thicker to accommodate the mechanism changes and a bigger battery. But, sure, let's kneejerk yell about their engineering decisions.
- swebs 7y agoScissor keys are the old ones that everyone likes. It was butterfly keys that people have the problem with. Apple is going back to the good ones.
- Waterluvian 7y agoThey're running out of ways to word their puffery.
- electrograv 7y agoYeah... at this point I half expect to read from Apple: “When we changed the key travel from 1.0mm to 0.5mm, it was so much better that it became the best keyboard in the world. And now, with the change from 0.5mm to 1.0mm, we’ve made it even better than ever: Welcome to the world’s best typing experience.”
- ngcc_hk 7y agoCommunist piggie joke of the Soviet Union era.
- andrepd 7y agoDon't the claim the best everything everytime they release a new anything?
- raverbashing 7y agoAnd for a good while they could actually have made a believable claim for it Now, it's just pure marketing speak
- sdan 7y agoYes. Because logically you improve everytime, primarily why Cook comes onto stage every year saying: "This is our best iPhone yet" or insert whatever apple product you want.
- weka 7y agoWhich is pretty redundant to say. No one would say the opposite and everyone expects an improved version. It's just fancy PR talking points.
- sdan 7y agoBut it makes consumers feel better about their decision. Imagine you're a techie and wondering if this very minimal refresh to the iPhone is worth buying? "It's our best yet" or "It's made for pros" I mean, as you pointed out, it's fancy PR/textbook examples of good PR.
- jacques_chester 7y ago
- willis936 7y agoIt feels like a single child is in charge of directing, writing, editing these marketing materials. It’s the “best”? Surely that alone will convince your customers who saw how you made the worst laptop keyboard ever when you shrank the depth. Surely you want to convince them you fixed that issue. Oh? You’re just going to ignore it and say its the best? The baseline price is $2400? In the highly competitive $1500+ laptop space? Bold move, Cotton.
- i_am_proteus 7y agoThey used the phrase "world's best pro notebook" three times in the first 200 words! How could they be wrong?
- trevyn 7y agoKatie Cotton retired in 2014! Now they have nobody to make new words.
- Zenbit_UX 7y agoPretty sure that was a dodge all quote.
- journalctl 7y agoDefinitely a DodgeBall quote.
- chrisseaton 7y agoIf you didn't think you had improved on the last version why would you release it? When you write software presumably you think each release is the best experience each time?
- notacoward 7y agoThe standard for releasing new software is that it should be better than its own previous self, in some way. It doesn't have to be better in all ways, or best in the world in any way, so long as the overall value proposition has improved. What rubs many people the wrong way about Apple is that they always claim to be the absolute best in all dimensions, as though engineering tradeoffs or accommodation to users' priorities and preferences are only for lesser companies. "Our car is the fastest and the most comfortable and the most fuel efficient, so you'd have to be an idiot to want anything else." It's the computing equivalent of snake oil, and people react to that.
- Keats 7y agoTheir 2018 MacBook is by far the best typing experience I had on a laptop. Other laptop keyboards would be happy with just writing down what I just typed, the MacBook goes one step further and doubles many letters. That's after 6 months of use and 95% of the time using an external keyboard. Meanwhile, every time I take out my 6 years old Thinkpad T440s the keyboard feels nice instantly.
- criddell 7y ago> they claim "best typing experience" every time they release a new laptop What do you expect them to say?
- Exuma 7y agoHow does 1mm travel distance compare to the external magic keyboard for iMac? I REALLY loved the short travel distance of .55mm :( I could type so much faster, bordering on 160wpm
- tyingq 7y agoLooks like you get your escape key back, that's nice.
- carbocation 7y agoI have a Pro at work and dislike its keyboard so much that I still have a 2013 Air at home. This is the first Pro I’ll consider in a long time because of the Esc key.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ossworkerrights 7y agoToo little, too late. If it weren't for the OS, which they are also butchering, I would've moved away from Apple sooner.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bluedino 7y agoMarco posted an update earlier - https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16 https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16
- Ecco 7y agoI was so hoping for a constant bezel width. Unfortunately the top bezel is still a lot larger than the side ones. I know it's because of the camera, but that makes for an awkward looking device…
- 8draco8 7y agoCan you elaborate on why constant bezel width is so important? Most devices (phones, tablets, TVs, laptops) don't have constant bezel width.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoMost devices look terrible as a result.
- 8draco8 7y agoThat's your personal opinion. I don't like thinning of the machines (and that's a opinion) but I have actual reasons for it (overheating, battery size, upgradebility). Saying that uneven bezels are bad because you don't like them is like saying that recycling is bad because I don't like multiple bins in front of my house.
- Ecco 7y agoI just find uneven bezels ugly. And I think symmetry as a beauty factor is quite widespread :)
- bhauer 7y ago> Most devices (phones, tablets, TVs, laptops) don't have constant bezel width. Some phones and tablets have varied bezel width because they are touch-screen devices that need to be held by their screens. In my experience, most TVs and laptops have uniform bezel widths. Especially TVs since they are so commonly treated as furniture, and therefore receive a great deal of design attention. On laptops, an exception is often the bottom bezel, where you often will see some additional surface material. I agree with GP that laptops should have uniform bezel widths to look their best. It's not a must-have, but a uniform narrow bezel is optimal for laptop aesthetics.
- kevingadd 7y agoIt's really something that one of the first promotional photos on the page is a macbook hooked up to audio gear through daisy-chained dongles and adapters instead of just a regular USB or ethernet cable like it would've been in the old days. The price of thin.
- nishanmiranda 7y agoHope the keyboard in this one is a lot better
- mcculley 7y agoStill no LTE modem?
- nottorp 7y agoYou like paying for one extra mobile subscription?
- mcculley 7y agoAll of my other devices have LTE modems. That mobile carriers have not caught up with a better pricing model is not as important to me as having fewer failure points when traveling.
- 8draco8 7y agoTo be fair in some countries providers give data SIM pretty much for free. Here where I am, my provider gives one SIM with data plan for free every other normal SIM, so in my mini company I have 2 company phone numbers and I got SIM card with data plan for free and there was literally no way to opt out of that SIM without paying more.
- 8draco8 7y agoI feel like LTE modems in laptops are pointless since virtually every smartphone is capable of creating private hotspot to share LTE connection.
- mcculley 7y agoIt wouldn't be pointless for me. I quite often use my iPhone to provide an Internet connection for my MacBook Pro. I wish it were more reliable and didn't consume so much battery. Dell and other laptop vendors have been embedding cellular modems in laptops for a long time. Apple manages to put one in a watch and every other device. It appears that the Qualcomm license problems are the only impediment to Apple putting an LTE modem into a bigger device.
- jryan49 7y agoWhat if you want to save battery life on your phone while you're on the go? I imagine having LTE modem in the machine must be a less laggy experience as well.
- throwanem 7y agoI'm astonished and pleased to see they walked back the two worst things about the original Touch Bar MBPs - the lack of a physical Escape key, and the full-size left and right arrow keys. The lack of physical function keys remains regrettable, and the Touch Bar is still no worthy substitute, but perhaps this is a sign that Apple is finally interested in listening to feedback from its long-term customer base, even if that feedback conflicts with the design team's desires.
- htk 7y agoI feel the same. The stubbornness of Apple that was so frustrating is a bit more flexible now, paying attention to "subtle" feedback like the arrow key's sizes.
- gigatexal 7y agoWe devs are so conservative. It's ridiculous. Nobody allows Apple to innovate.
- Someone1234 7y agoApple can innovate as much as they wish. For example put the touchbar above the keyboard or below the LCD. Nobody is complaining about the TouchID on the power button for example, since that maintains its core purpose. People are complaining because 30+ year old keys they rely on to do their professional work were removed to add arguably a gimmick with a worse user experience/no touch feedback.
- theklr 7y agoJust like people complained when they dropped floppy and and PS/2 for CDs and USB? Or when they introduced a smartphone with no physical keyboard? Anecdotes don't make it fact.
- llampx 7y agoYou can see the difference in reactions to know that it wasn't wanted or desired by the target market. Its not anecdotes anymore, its data which we've had 3 years to accumulate.
- karpodiem 7y agoWould it materially harm a company with a trillion dollar market cap to offer a version of this without the touchbar (thus yielding a lower price), so people can afford to upgrade the soldered memory and NVMe drive? Would it also harm them to make a version that didn't have soldered memory/NVMe drive? Ultimately, this is why I switched to a Dell Latitude. Being user hostile to basic memory/disk replacement doesn't fly with me when spending $1500+ on a machine. And if replacing either breaks the crypto chain - I don't need a black box T2 chip, I'll do my own disk encryption.
- peeters 7y agoI'm pretty sure at this point if they make a version without the touchbar, they'll market it as a premium feature and charge more. Now with 100% physical function keys!
- rock_artist 7y ago"The best keyboard experience just got better."
- chrisBob 7y agoIf they care at all about making the touchbar a thing then the best way to do that is make every mac developer get one on their daily-use laptop. I still think of it as a novelty more than a functional feature, but I don't think any third party apps would support it if it didn't come on every MBP.
- mmmBacon 7y agoOne way Apple has become a trillion dollar company is by minimizing skus. Options mean inventory, development and test costs etc... and can be sources of quality problems triggering warranty repairs or replacements. Doing few things allows one to streamline both product development and manufacturing.
- karpodiem 7y agoRemoving the touchbar has a material financial impact to Apple? We're talking about a CNC machine here, that's how they carve out the aluminum chassis. It would literally involve them carving out less aluminum from the block, because the touchbar would no longer be needed. Quality problems? You mean like the over-engineered keyboard they've had issues with for three years? Some decades longer design patterns are battle tested/aren't broken, yet Apple continually tries to break them - thinness to the extent that they now solder memory/disk to the board, putting out a keyboard design that isn't sufficiently tested, and all sorts of Catalina issues that people have documented online.
- snowwrestler 7y ago11 years ago I bought a 15” MacBook Pro, the first model year with the unibody design. I’m still using it almost every day for web browsing, watching videos, editing documents, etc. In 2008, it cost $2,400. The new 16” released today costs... $2,400.
- tristor 7y agoWhich means they took a reduction in margin to keep the price the same. Prices otherwise have risen, because of inflation. Check an inflation calculator and then you’ll be overjoyed Apple has a commitment to maintaining pricing standards for its products.
- lm28469 7y agoMeh, it's just a matter of efficiency, the bulk prices they get from manufacturers, the fact that they're basically using the same assembly lines for 10 years, with the same suppliers &. TV got much much cheaper in the last 10 years too and that's not because manufacturer cut their margins, mass production + mature tech + price/perf going down = price stagnates or drops.
- vuln 7y agoTV's became a lot cheaper because they are 'Smart" all these companies are now subsidizing the TV cost because they are data mining and selling off your information.
- lm28469 7y agoOk, then let's say, GPUs, CPUs, screen panels, hdd/ssd &c. I mean, does anyone believe apple is giving up margin to absorb inflation ?
- tristor 7y agoYes, I stated as such. I don’t work at Apple, but I am a Product Manager. Pricing is a critical part of product market segmentation. Apple’s pricing is a deliberate choice, not an accident, and they absolutely give up margin for volume.
- djaychela 7y agoAfter much deliberation, I bought a 2017 13" MBP, upspecced to 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM. While I've not had a complete failure from the keyboard, it did need looking at at the Apple Store when it also had the entire display assembly replaced because the keyboard had damaged the screen - despite me looking after it well, always putting it in a soft slip case and then a laptop bag. While I've liked some elements of the design, it's not (to me) a Pro piece of kit, and I've sine replaced it with a 2016 15" MBP which is much better built and doesn't need extra dongles to connect to everyday devices (and has magsafe, which is the best piece of design I've seen in many years). Given this performance, I'll never buy a new Macbook again - particularly given all the issues about thermal throttling, battery life and indeed the way that macOS seems now to be going. Don't get me wrong, there are elements of the 2017 MBP that I love - it looks amazing, the screen is fantastic and it's just so precisely made. But the lack of ports, the lack of ruggedness, the keyboard and the performance outweigh any 'look, shiny!' feeling I have about it - so much so that I've not sold it because I feel like I'm stitching the buyer up - even though they've not held their price compared to previous models, which shows that people know this to be the case, and the keyboard still has the 4 year warranty in place.
- Flockster 7y ago> Mac Pro starts at $5,999 and Pro Display XDR starts at $4,999. Is this the first time we got a starting price on the Mac Pro?
- sdan 7y agoWas in certain parts of the Apple website before.
- filleokus 7y agoNo, it was mentioned during the WWDC introduction.
- 8draco8 7y agoNo, I'm pretty sure the starting price for Mac Pro was announced when the machine was revealed.
- bloopernova 7y ago6016 x 3384 @ 32" for that screen, pretty nice. I'll take 4! (if I won the lottery)
- sdan 7y agoSo basically they made what the 2016 lineup should've been. In November 2019. OK.
- Someone1234 7y agoHoly heck, they re-added a physical escape key. That's a huge improvement. a slight shame they didn't just move the touchbar up and re-add the F key row too, but it is a good compromise and improvement regardless. This could be the one a lot of people have been waiting for if the new switches/design pans out. PS - Although I might be an unusual demographic as I touch type and wouldn't use the touchbar regardless (since I look at the screen, not the backs of my hands while I interact with a Mac).
- 1_player 7y ago> physical escape key I'm happy we VIM users have been loud enough to get the most important key back. :-) I know there's Ctrl-[ but it's 20 years of muscle memory to retrain, and I don't want to do that.
- Tankenstein 7y agoI really recommend rebinding caps lock to escape. macOS lets you do that natively in keyboard setting nowadays. Still muscle memory to relearn, of course.
- 1_player 7y agoCaps Lock is already my Ctrl key, I don't want to get cramps everytime I press Ctrl-C.
- mooncake 7y agoI got used to capslock in less than a day when I got MBP. I recommend BetterTouchTool to remove the faux escape key and replace it with something as annoying as "Previous track". After listening to the same track for a few hours it really stuck.
- nothrabannosir 7y agoBut you can't rebind esc to anything (natively), so you lose caps lock. Am I the only one who declares constants and envvars in capitals? And how do people write SQL? With their elbow on the shift key?
- rmsaksida 7y agoGreat, now I hope they make a 13-inch version. There's no reason to sacrifice mobility in a pro laptop.
- WildGreenLeave 7y agoAgreed! I'm waiting for the rumours for the 13" now.
- davidgl 7y agohttps://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/ https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/ - 13 and 16 inch available
- WildGreenLeave 7y agoThe 13" is still the old model with the butterfly switched, full size arrow keys, no physical esc and many more irritations.
- bob1122 7y agoUnfortunately, I think this model is still the older model without the new exclusive ESC key and the 9th gen CPUs
- kayoone 7y agothats the old model with the flawed keyboard, no ESC key etc.
- pow_ext 7y agothe 13-inch models are from 2017
- WanderPanda 7y agoWhat a race conflict ^
- allworknoplay 7y agoCouldn’t agree more! It’s so frustrating how the 13” is treated like it doesn’t have to perform.
- iagovar 7y agoWill the fan make something this time or will it be a placebo again?
- spyspy 7y agoMade a special point to request an Air instead of a Pro when I started my new job recently. Office manager was confused and insisted everyone else was using Pros but I stayed strong. No regrets.
- byte1918 7y agoIn the UK and the `Buy` button redirects to a not found page. https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/go/macbook_pro/select https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/go/macbook_pro/select this 404s for me.
- codnee 7y agoIt seems to be a global issue. Edit: Replaced the _ with a - and it works
- m00dy 7y agoAnyone has price prediction for this beast ?
- 8draco8 7y agoIt's starting at the same price as the previous one, $2399
- spurgu 7y agoFor those of you mentioning the esc key, I suggest mapping capslock to esc, I've been doing that for years now (both Linux and Mac) and it's awesome. Except when you're using someone else's computer and constantly turn capslock on and off... Edit: You can do this natively since Mojave(?) in the keyboard settings without having to resort to something like Karabiner.
- wiredfool 7y agoUnless that’s where you’ve already remapped ctrl.
- cmaggard 7y agoWhy not both? My QMK mechanical keyboards (and, I just noticed, Karabiner Elements) can support turning Caps Lock into Ctrl+KEY if pressed with something else, and ESC if pressed by itself. Best of all possible worlds.
- cheschire 7y agoFound the SunOS refugee!
- tayhobbs 7y agoI have both using Karabiner-Elements. Escape when pressed alone, ctrl if pressed with something else.
- 1_player 7y agoI had that setup, then I noticed something didn't feel quite right on some apps: apparently sometimes I tend to press Ctrl to enter some key combination, depress it immediately after and it fires the ESC key, which might have unintended consequences (i.e. closing a window I was reading)
- jamesfmilne 7y agoI do that on my Macbook Pro. The only drawback is when I go to any other machine that doesn't have Caps Lock remapped and I'm toggling caps lock on/off all the time. Particularly annoying when you're a vim user :D
- noncoml 7y ago> The new Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key Thank god for the return to sanity
- KenanSulayman 7y agoI'm sure they're still rolling this out.. the "buy" button on the MacBook page leads to "Page Not Found".[0] Unfortunate, because I've been waiting for the 16-inch ever since the first rumor came up.. [0] https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select https://www.apple.com/us/shop/go/macbook_pro/select
- Someone1234 7y agoDoes this work? https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MVVK2LL/A&step=config https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MVVK2... https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MVVJ2LL/A&step=config https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MVVJ2...
- Klonoar 7y agoIf this holds up, then man... am I happy. I ran the gamut looking for comparable laptops recently in an effort to figure out what I'd do if they didn't get it together, and the options really vary and nothing feels as nice.
- objektif 7y agoI can't see myself spending this much for a laptop but I guess there is a market for it.
- nakodari 7y agoIs the form factor the same as 15" Macbook Pro or is this bigger? Did Apple simply reduce bezels on the sides of the screen to fit 16" display instead of the standard 15"?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ai_ja_nai 7y agoFor less money something more open and more powerful? https://system76.com/laptops/galago https://system76.com/laptops/galago Here is a nickel kid: buy yourself a real computer -Dilbert
- 8draco8 7y agoCan I use on it my company provided Adobe suit to create images, sprites and mockups and then use them to create iOS apps?
- thebigspacefuck 7y agoSure, just install OSX-KVM and run macOS as a VM
- 8draco8 7y agoAnd it's all perfectly legal and as user friendly as picking up brand, spanky new MBP from Apple Store?
- diffeomorphism 7y agoWell, you also get $1550 in cash when buying the base model. I am sure that this is more than enough to pay someone to make it just as user friendly.
- baybal2 7y agoI'm amazed how accurate the rumour mill is in Shenzhen. First heard about it back in March, when all OEMs were scrambling to make lookalike products before Apple's release. Would be interesting to know if they went back to Samsung panels from LG. I remember Samsung salesmen were pushing hard their new 500 and 600 nit panels a year ago.
- alvern 7y agoSo the top of the line specs get you: * 2.4GHz 8‑core 9th‑generation Intel Core i9 processor, Turbo Boost up to 5.0GHz * 64GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory * AMD Radeon Pro 5500M with 8GB of GDDR6 memory * 8TB SSD storage for $6099USD. I wonder how it will handle the thermals.
- corrigible 7y agoI have a similarly-spec'd System76 Oryx Pro that cost less than half. No soldered DIMM's either :)
- aroch 7y agoYou really don't though? The top of the line comprable configuration has a significantly worse display, 75% of the SSD storage (that's also significantly slower), a worse graphics card and costs ~$4700.
- mdemare 7y agoAccording to the System76 site, they charge $1798 just for the SSD.
- joshuakarjala 7y agoNot saying it completely makes up for difference in price - but there is no way I'm buying a new laptop with 1080p screen
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- faizshah 7y agoHow is the trackpad on there? I bought a thinkpad since at least the keyboard is as good as my mbp 2012 but the trackpad is horrible.
- alecco 7y agoFor reference, a Dell Inspiron (~$400) can have a Intel Core 10th gen (+50% L1/L2 and AVX512).
- jron 7y agoApple must have sunk some serious cash into the touch bar. I can't believe it is still a thing.
- wolph 7y agoThey're just notoriously bad at admitting being wrong. Just look at how many keyboard iterations it took to get back to the old working keyboards. For me personally think this could work, not having an esc button was a deal breaker for me but this might just convince me to finally upgrade my old mbp retina
- seanwilson 7y agoI'm not against spending money on essential tools of the trade that you keep for years but carrying around a super expensive laptop makes me feel really nervous e.g. it could get stolen, dropped, get wet in the rain, drinks spilt on it. When I don't need the extra power, I think I'd rather travel with an easy to replace $900 laptop than a $3,000 one for ease of mind.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- systemtest 7y agoIt's the opposite for me. I would use the €4000 HP ZBook from work on the subway or on the street. But I wouldn't use my €1000 mid-2015 MacBook Pro because I know I wouldn't be able to buy a new one if it got stolen or would break.
- andbberger 7y agoThat makes no sense.
- bhelkey 7y agoI believe the point is who pays if it breaks.
- yedpodtrzitko 7y agoMoney can't buy everything - if they don't make the 2015 chassis anymore (ie. no Touchbar, which some people still very much prefer), then you cant really get a replacement for it, no matter the price.
- andbberger 7y agoDon't they still sell refurbs? I bought a refurbed 2015 model like last year
- lgats 7y ago
- baybal2 7y agoLook at the battery, 100Wh!
- deaps 7y agoDo I see an actual, physical escape key? That's probably my only gripe with my 2019 macbook pro 13"
- nottorp 7y agoAs a person burned by the "improved" 2018 keyboard, I'd wait a couple months to see how sensitive to dust this one is. It's not the typing experience that was the main problem with the previous keyboard, it was that you couldn't use the laptop outdoors...
- barrowclift 7y agoGenuinely curious, why did so many developers ask for the return of the physical Escape key when you could easily re-map it to caps lock? Before this was an officially supported option, I always hated having to do big hand-shimmies every time I needed to press the escape key, which is quite often for programs like vim!
- schuke 7y agoCan only speak for myself but here in China we need Caps Lock to switch between languages which is used very very often.
- barrowclift 7y agoThat's fascinating, I didn't realize that key serves multilingual support in some countries. Is that the standard configuration in China or a common setting for that key there?
- schuke 7y agoIt's been the macOS default for a few yeas. Before that, we usually assign Cmd+Space for this (in Windows it was Ctrl+Space for switching language and Shift for toggling between English and Chinese). Then Siri came so the combo stopped working. Possibly it was then when Caps Locks became the default.
- oddthink 7y agoBecause caps lock is already control. :-)
- barrowclift 7y agoThat makes sense, I didn't even consider that some folks already have the key bound to something else.
- pault 7y agoHold for control, tap for escape. You'll never go back. :)
- vesinisa 7y agoCould @mods please editorialize the title. "The world's best pro notebook" is marketing speech and not a fact.
- shawxe 7y agoSeconded. The current title is misleading and not fact based.
- Wheaties466 7y agoTIL there are mods here.
- rootusrootus 7y agoAFAIK, basically there are two: dang and sctb. That may have changed, but this topic is not routinely discussed and I have not heard otherwise. Cultivating HN seems to be their full time job.
- Ambroos 7y agoFor others who might be wondering, this replaces the 15-inch MacBook Pro. There's a small increase in size (15 vs 16): - Thickness: 1.55cm to 1.62cm (+0.7mm, +4.5%) - Width: 34.93cm to 35.79cm (+0.86cm, +2.5%) - Depth: 24.07cm to 24.59cm (+0.52cm, +2.2%) - Weight: 1.83kg to 2.0kg (+170gr, +9.3%) The display alone is ~1.3cm wider (and ~0.7cm higher), so there was a small reduction in bezel sizes, allowing the screen to grow more than the rest of the hardware.
- spuz 7y agoThanks, I was actually wondering about this.
- retromario 7y agoThat's actually a thickness increase of 0.7mm.
- Ambroos 7y agoWoops! Thanks!
- theandrewbailey 7y ago0/10 Too thick, will not buy. Jony Ive wouldn't do this. \s
- rco8786 7y agoDang. My 15” is already a hit too big for airplane work and this won’t help. 13 is too small as a daily driver. Can a guy get a 14”??
- zackkatz 7y agoI’m frustrated by the 720p camera. That is not good enough quantity.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoWould you prefer it had 2 cameras?
- ses1984 7y ago"I'm so glad this model has a touchbar" "I would buy a dell xps but only if it had a touchbar" things no one ever said.
- Twisell 7y agoWell having a Gen1 2016 MBP I feel quite reassured that they didn't drop the concept altogether, because that mean better support for my current machine. Yes it's a little gimmicky, main feature being that you can swap between customized buttons and ad-hoc sliders when adjusting things. But still nice that they didn't throw everything aboard and manage to compromise between reintroducing ESC and keeping innovation.
- sdan 7y agoOne of the reasons I'm keeping my MBP w/o touchbar. Although initially I thought I was missing out, I found that by discontinuing this model, they're only proving how great it is.
- thisisnico 7y agoAgreed. They look/feel so gimmicky IMO.
- aequitas 7y agoWhen I was in the market for the 2019 model (bought a second hand 2015 instead) I tried the touchbar and really liked what it offered in terms of context aware controls. But I quickly realised I could never incorporate it into my workflow since I use my laptop docked most of the time. Meaning I have an external keyboard, without a touchbar. So all productivity gained by a touchbar would only work when I'm not behind a desk. Making investing into the touchbar useless and leaving it as just a gimmick indeed.
- OkGoDoIt 7y agoMight a desktop computer be a better purchase in that case?
- eitland 7y ago
- crusso 7y agoI have a TouchBar MacBook and I was pretty peeved about the escape key at first, but once I remapped the caps lock key to escape I never looked back. The caps lock key is worthless anyway. That said, the only cool use for the TouchBar that I've noted is with iTerm2. Changing terminal colors on the fly from the TouchBar is actually kinda nifty.
- fulafel 7y agoThe Caps Lock key is reserved to be remapped as Ctrl in many people's setups.
- twic 7y agoBUT DOESN'T THAT MAKE POSTING ON FORUMS HARD?!!
- spurgu 7y agoFOR THAT YOU JUST TYPE WHILE YOUR LEFT HAND PINKY IS RESTING ON SHIFT!
- 8draco8 7y agoI am actually using CapsLock for typing capital letters. I learned it that way when I first got computer and it stick with me. Plus it's much easier to write capital, accent letters from my language because I don't have to hold two modifiers (Shift+Alt), just one.
- geophile 7y agoStill has the touchbar. “Hey Siri, wake me up next year.”
- peeters 7y agoI didn't have a touchbar but wouldn't the escape key have been the easiest non-physical key to reach without looking, due to its indexed location? Or was the problem that it wasn't always exposed by the software?
- zelos 7y agoI was constantly bringing up the help view in Vim by hitting F1 instead of Esc. Decades of muscle memory wouldn't allow me to actually use Caps Lock remapped as ecape.
- pcr910303 7y agoOMG, I'm very depressed as a user who loves the butterfly mechanism. I hate the wobbly feeling that the scissor mechanism produces. Apple didn't need to return to the scissor mechanism, it should have reiterated the design. I'm very disappointed that Apple just gave up & used the safe way of regressing back. It feels like Apple is losing the spirit of doing things itself, whether other people dislikes it. Apple is more and more becoming a usual company that just does what consumers demands. And I'm sad with that.
- zellyn 7y ago“And they didn’t throw away the good parts of the butterfly keyboard — including excellent backlighting and especially the increased stability, where keys go down flat even when pressed off-center. The keys on this keyboard don’t wobble like the keys on pre-2016 MacBook Pro keyboards do.” — https://daringfireball.net/2019/11/16-inch_macbook_pro_first_impressions https://daringfireball.net/2019/11/16-inch_macbook_pro_first...
- pcr910303 7y agoWow, that's pretty great! I'm not sure I'll change my mind until I actually touch them, but that's pretty great, kind of removes my stereotypes of scissor keyboards.
- jasonsync 7y agoThe Butterfly mechanism was tainted by a number of design flaws that forced Apple to provide a soft recall: https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-n... I'm literally getting my new Macbook serviced today due to sticky butterfly keys.
- themagician 7y agoAll they really had to do was find a way to make the keys more easily removable. The butterfly mechanism is really nice when it works, but when a single key can stick and there is no easy way to clean / replace it so you have to replace the entire cop case which is insane.
- NoblePublius 7y agoI would pay $1000 extra for no Touch Bar.
- melling 7y agoGo from 16GB to 32GB of RAM and 1TB to 2TB and you have over $800 in upgrades. I put 16GB in my 2013 Mac Book Pro. The extra RAM is key to getting a few more years of use. An external SSD would be fine but Mac laptops never have enough ports.
- mcv 7y agoA co-worker is really impressed with all the improvements, but they seem to mostly be improvements over previous poor ideas from Apple, that other brands already had or never abandoned. I admit, a 16" screen in a 15" body sounds really nice. But most of this is stuff other brands already had.
- Klonoar 7y agoThe other brands don't have macOS. Running a Mac isn't just hardware. People were annoyed because they don't want to run a different OS. Yes, you could get cheaper/powerful hardware somewhere else... but it's not macOS. Hackintoshes need not apply here.
- canuckintime 7y ago> Yes, you could get cheaper/powerful hardware somewhere else... would you agree with this change to your description?: "Yes, you could get [better] hardware somewhere else..."
- Klonoar 7y agoNot really, "better" hardware is subjective in a laptop. For all the complaining people do, Apple is very good about ensuring that the hardware in their machines works as expected and hits a solid baseline performance level for given tasks.
- wlesieutre 7y agoExcept for the keyboard fiasco, obviously
- theklr 7y agoAnecdotes ≠ fact
- 7y ago
- bithavoc 7y ago16 matches for the word “ever” in that page. I love the Esc key is back though and hopefully it doesn’t throttle as much as my current 2017 MBP.
- choward 7y ago10 for "world's" which includes "world's best" "world's most". A very cringey read if you ask me yet people eat this stuff up.
- juskrey 7y agoWhy wouldn't we say firm no, until the classic keys are fully back.
- Miltnoid 7y agoThis is a little tangential, but does anybody find it weird that, even on desktop, the article seems hyperoptimized for mobile? The huge margins made it feel like I was reading on a phone emulator instead of on a desktop.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoI did glance up and the address bar to double check that I hadn't ended up on their mobile site. Very odd design.
- manaskarekar 7y agoOnly a few more iterations before we have the complete row of Fn Keys! That said, I'm glad they bumped up the base to 512GB and the keyboard is improved.
- Traster 7y agoIt's amazing to see such a positive response to such weak sauce with the touchbar. Our expectations really have fallen through the floor. There is no reason the escape key needs to be physical that doesn't also apply to the function keys. So why has Apple admitted the touchbar doesn't work, but still forces you to use it for F keys. With this form factor it wouldn't have been difficult to have function keys as well as a touchbar- but Apple don't seem interested in actually solving this problem. I'm very tired of having to settle for serious shortcomings in what used to be such a great product.
- jmull 7y ago> There is no reason the escape key needs to be physical that doesn't also apply to the function keys. IMO, those are completely different. The sscape key provides access to a fundamental concept, "go back, undo, I didn't mean it, no!". This even goes beyond humans. E.g, my dogs have the same concept. Function keys are abstract in a distended way... they mean, generally, some function specific to a certain context that doesn't fit into the general patterns, but is maybe pretty commonly needed in that context. IMO, the Touch Bar, with text and graphical cues, is better suited. Of course, various software has been written to the F1-12 abstraction, and physical keys are nicer to type on, so it's not all good. But I think this is a case of one step back, two steps forward.
- ngcc_hk 7y agoGot my 2019 top spec but then revert to get a macbook old stock for daily use. The macbook 12 inch is great. Work nicely with my ipad. Can’t do two screen even the 2nd screen did show. But all is fine. The 15 cold feet.
- sigzero 7y agoCan't wait for a review of how the thermals work.
- purple_ducks 7y agoI find it bizarre that Apple hasn't cottoned on to the market for 14" laptops yet. Easily the best tradeoff for me between screensize and carry-ability.
- bsaul 7y agoI wonder how many developers purchase MBP that don't require to build iOS apps or install xcode. I realize i don't even look at other laptop makers just because i need to build iOS apps (which in theory shouldn't have any kind of relation) That's probably the textbook definition of monopolistic abuse.
- jdgiese 7y agoOut of myself and my nine coworkers (all developers) I believe that 6 of the 10 use MPBs. We don’t build iOS apps or use Xcode. I should also note that we have a BYOD policy so.
- propter_hoc 7y agoI am still pretty astonished at the strict lack of the ports you would expect on a typical pro laptop: Ethernet, HDMI and at least one USB-A in particular. As someone who occasionally forgets to bring dongles with me, it's a bit of a shame.
- 6ue7nNMEEbHcM 7y agoMKBHD already has an overview video on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAv4qOU_04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAv4qOU_04 (with apparently real hardware).
- j45 7y agoWith the 15" MBP being EOLed into a 16", it's hard not to wonder if the 13.3" displays might become 14". Makes a big difference at the size, as the X1 Carbon is able to prove.
- easytiger 7y agoDo advertising exaggerations belong in a post title?
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoIt feels as though Apple looked at the two biggest complaints, and gave the smallest concessions they possibly could. • The keyboard uses scissor switches (and thus hopefully won't completely die), but still only has 1mm of key travel. • They added back an escape key to the top row, but the touch bar is still there—and there's still no function keys as a result. The keyboard, okay, maybe Apple really needs those thinness metrics for marketing purposes—but would it really have killed them to up the travel to 2mm? And, why the heck are they so dug in on the touchbar? While I admittedly only have anecdotal evidence, I think it's relatively clear at this point that neither users nor developers have taken to it in any significant way. Just kill it already. It's been three years—if people haven't discovered how amazing it is by now, they aren't going to have a sudden awakening.
- have_faith 7y ago> maybe Apple really needs those thinness metrics for marketing purposes Surely the thinness of the keyboards hasn't been relevant in marketing in a while? what kind of consumer does this excite? Surprised Apple are still shouting about it.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoI don't know! I would think so, but then why do they keep doing it? I legitimately don't understand why you wouldn't add just a tiny bit more key travel. Typing is one of the primary functions of a laptop.
- hambos22 7y agoI was thinking to buy that line of MB, but since September I fully switched to Linux after being OSX user for the last 14 years. I ditched my mbp for a Dell XPS 7390 (latest model, 16GB RAM, i7 10th). Me and my girl couldn't be happier. Me, because I ditched that monopolistic machine, which you can't fully enjoy if you are not in Apple's ecosystem. The only Apple machine I have is macbook. Even my desktop was a hackintosh. As a developer Linux gave me extreme freedom. The only thing I miss, is the touchpad but I learned to live without it. My girl because I gave her my Macbook Pro 2015 and moved away from windows, win-win situation, the machine will just "work"
- torstenvl 7y agoI am very happy about this and the Mac Pro -- it seems like Apple is finally admitting where it has room for improvement in hardware. Which, of course, makes me wonder whether they will ever abandon their hubris with software. There really ought to be a Rosetta-style compatibility layer for 32-bit and GC apps in macOS. Sadly, I don't think that will ever happen. Anyone know whether it's possible to install Mojave on one of these? I've been a Mac user for thirteen years this month. I'm not sure I can buy another one.
- 8draco8 7y agoIf your workflow allows for switch then just pull the trigger and buy cheaper and faster Windows or Linux machine. IMHO Macs are extremely overpriced and should be bought only by people who are tied to MacOS ecosystem (iOS development, Final Cut Pro etc.)
- faramarz 7y agoa couple of months ago I bought a fully decked out 15" for $6k CAD; for the same amount, I can now get a 16", and double the storage and slightly better graphics. What the hell! I'm going to try getting a replacement from Apple. The 15" upgrade that I got was just announced too when I got it.
- 293984j29384 7y agoMy first laptop was an Apple PowerBook 140 and I've owned a succession of Mac laptops since then (Wallstreet, G4 Aluminum, 2012 & 2017 Macbook Pro) and yet I'm typing this on a Surface Pro because I had such a poor experience with the 2017 Macbook Pro that I'll probably never go back. That keyboard was such junk that I literally feel like Apple robbed me. I really regret not returning the computer within the two week window for a full refund. I realize this rant isn't very productive but I still hope the ghost of Steve Jobs reads it.
- social_quotient 7y agoWhy do they get away with saying the world’s best pro notebook“ when I don’t see anything materially better than the dell precision 55xx and 75xx line? More pixels in the 15.6 Xeon chip 5ghz 128GB ECC memory I guess I’m wondering what metric singles this one out as being best?
- aembleton 7y ago> I guess I’m wondering what metric singles this one out as being best? Apple have probably decided that it is the best because it has the best hardware that is running OSX. I think they consider any other OS inferior, no matter what hardware it is running on.
- cltsang 7y agoA bit disappointed it still sports an LCD screen, although expected. I guess LED screen is left for the next iteration of innovation.
- AtlasLion 7y agoIs it innovation if others already have it?
- thierryzoller 7y ago"the worlds best pro notebook" ? According to whom ?
- simonklitj 7y agoProbably Apple.
- AtlasLion 7y agoThe circlejerk is strong in here.
- charleshan 7y agoDon't forget that the Touch Bar costs an additional $400 for consumers. The 2015 model was the best MacBook Pro. Perhaps the best laptop yet.
- merb 7y agobtw. the 16" model is cheaper than the 15" from the year before (in the base configuration they are equal, if you add additional ssd space or so, the 16" model comes out cheaper). not that it matters much, since the 15" pro late 2013 model was cheaper than both.
- lowercased 7y agoI just got a 2019 at end of May - earlier 2015 broke, needed one ASAP. Didn't want a Touch Bar (had returned a 2016 model I got on release - didn't like it). Now... same price, this has physical escape key and 1TB out of the box. Slightly annoyed...
- merb 7y agoyeah I would be annoyed also. I knew that my late 2013 has his issues after hard usage (battery swelled, etc) so I need one really soon, but I knew that the 2019/2020 will have a new model so I waited exactly for that.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- lowercased 7y agowish I could have waited these 6 months.
- mrep 7y agoHave you gone to apple for the battery swelling issue? I took mine in after part of the trackpad stopped working and a fan starting whining non-stop. They ended up replacing the case, battery, fan, and potentially even the keyboard and screen (looked like it from what I could tell) for only $300. It felt brand new when I got it back.
- benologist 7y agoAs the keyboard replacement program starts ending next year for the earliest lemons it will be interesting to see if Apple voluntarily recalls and replaces anything with these.
- maz1b 7y agoI'm pleasantly surprised that Apple decided to implement a physical escape key, the inverted "T" arrangement along with redoing the keyboard. While I don't know if we should be applauding Apple so heavily, it's good to see that they "listened" to customer feedback and made these changes. I know that I'll be looking forward to getting one after my 2015 MBP gives out.
- mister_hn 7y agoIt makes me always hard laugh when they do claims like "The world's best pro notebook", "the most performant notebook", etc.
- journalctl 7y agoThe hyperbole really isn’t cute anymore after all of the fuckups. Like, some humility this time would be great. “We listened. We made some mistakes, but we want to fix them.” Don’t come out guns blazing like “this is the BEST laptop EVAR!” You don’t get to claim the world’s best anything when some people have been waiting the length of an entire presidential administration just to buy a usable laptop from you.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 7y agoThis marketing wank actually makes my blood pressure rise.
- alt_f4 7y agoI think this is the first Apple laptop in 4-5 years that I feel like I can buy.
- thrower123 7y agoThe 17" Pro from around 2011 was the world's best pro notebook. The things are still pretty capable beasts, even today. Apple could do well to dust off that design, toss in an updated processor, and put whatever price tag they wanted on it.
- StreamBright 7y agoNow we need the the 13" version as well and we are back in 2015 (with slight improvements).
- insta_anon 7y agoCan someone explain to me how Apple can justify only including a 720p FaceTime HD camera into the "the world’s best pro notebook"? The last iPhone that had this FaceTime camera was the 6S, released in 2015. Since the iPhone 7 (2016) the phones have had at least a 1080p FaceTime camera. Given that FaceTime / Skype calls are such a common use case and rarely anyones uses external webcams anymore, why doesn't Apple use the existing camera system of the iPhone 11 for the MacBook? Seriously, if I pay north of $4000 dollars for a laptop, why do I get an obsolete camera?
- macintux 7y agoA phone camera is used to capture moments you want to preserve for posterity. A laptop camera is used for conference calls and no one needs to see all my facial flaws in 4K detail. So, no, I don’t consider this in any way to be a dealbreaker.
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago'Posterity' is a stretch? Snapchat would dispute that. In fact, if a phone really wanted to take good pictures (and not just market 'megapixels') they'd have focus, light balance, shutter speed controls. About all they can do is take still portraits.
- tantalor 7y agoSnapchat is a terrible example; they don't actually use the camera to take pictures, they just take a screenshot of the camera on-screen view. https://www.techjunkie.com/snapchat-compress-photo-quality/ https://www.techjunkie.com/snapchat-compress-photo-quality/
- JoeAltmaier 7y ago...and that's how people use their phone cameras. Very low-quality; very temporary.
- radres 7y ago"The new Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key..." well that's what I call a feat.
- robert_foss 7y agoTruly an innovation.
- fxleach 7y agoI got to the 3rd "the world’s best pro notebook" before I even finished the first sentence and gave up.
- GiorgioG 7y agoWhere are my damn F-Keys?
- mratsim 7y agoOpenCL? Cuda? Please tell me how I do proper GPU compute on a Mac.
- heipei 7y agoAm I the only one that is scared at the prospect of losing physical keys for changing volume and brightness? I do this all the time, changing volume up/down during conference calls, adjusting the brightness when working late at night. Can you even map the Touch-bar to have "keys" for these instead of the slider which seems way less precise and direct? Genuinely asking since I'm still on 2014 MBP.
- benjymo 7y agoYes you can have buttons to change volume and brightness. In fact the icons next to the slider are buttons you can tap to lower/increase volume/brightness. Or you can configure them to always show up as buttons without slider.
- yusefnapora 7y agoIf you don't mind spending a few bucks on a third-party tool, Better Touch Tool (https://folivora.ai/ https://folivora.ai/) will let you map two or three finger swipe gestures to control volume and brightness. This lets you adjust either without having to look at the touch bar and find the virtual button. It's still a slide instead of a press though, which takes a little getting used to.
- insta_anon 7y agoI'm completely with you. I have the older TouchBar model and every time I use the external Apple keyboard I am so much happier with the physical brightness, music controls and changing volume keys. For me I'd actually pay to have a model without TouchBar (but with TouchID, which actually is really useful).
- jeswin 7y ago> Inverted-T arrow keys! A millimeter of key travel! Which is still quite poor - Thinkpads offer between 1.3 to 1.9mm of travel depending on the model. It is surprising that a $1Trillion computer hardware company cannot design the best keyboard in the world while tiny Lenovo seems to have done much better. Why would a "pro" user care more thinness and form than the usability of the primary input mechanism? Add: It's not merely the travel. Lenovo keyboards are so slightly concave which offer perceivably better support for finger tips. The key surface also has a rougher texture instead of being flat, smooth and glossy, which I hope more manufacturers will emulate.
- jmull 7y agoWell, from someone who's had to rely on his work-issued Thinkpad a lot over the last week... Thinkpad keyboard are complete crap. Those keys can travel all the way into a garbage can for all I care. I have no idea if this new laptop's keyboard is any good, but it would have to take several steps back before you get to lenovo. One arrow key pops on and off as I use it. (This lappy is 4 months old and I've rarely done anything but remote into it so the keyboard should be pristine.) The escape key needs to be pressed extra hard -- beyond the "click" -- to register sometimes. Also, the right-click area on the trackpad expands and contracts mysteriously (best just to turn that off.)
- hombre_fatal 7y agoI like the macbook pro's keyboard out of the box. The low-travel clicking feels ideal to me, for maybe that first week. Of course, my issue is that they have some sort of internal catastrophic process failure if they were able to release a keyboard that fails so consistently. It wasn't just bad design, it was a process that seemingly did zero testing behind some Apple employees typing "hello world" on a ground floor clean room and going "yep, seems good." I look forward to see how the 16" MBP shakes out. I can believe that they redesigned the keys, but not that they fixed a gaping hole in their fundamental processes responsible for a dud keyboard that they had no idea how to fix.
- dharma1 7y agoLooks pretty good, I think I'll wait until the new microled displays though. The thermal design updates are welcome, that was seriously crippling previous Macbook Pros. I'd love to know how long and what clock rate the 8-core 16" MBP can sustain multi-core workloads running at 100% core utilisation. My guess is for a minute or so at 3.5ghz+.
- Slippery_John 7y agoMan I really want to upgrade for that keyboard, but they don't have the early 2019 models on their trade in :(
- electricslpnsld 7y agoIs there any hope of Apple including an Nvidia card in a future laptop or has that ship completely sailed?
- travisgriggs 7y agoFor years, I have bemoaned the demise of the 17" MBP. 16" with small bezels is a worthy compromise. Thank you Apple.
- jmull 7y agoI loved the marketing copy in the "New Magic Keyboard" section... Wow! A physical escape key?!? A scissor mechanism?!? Will the innovation ever cease?!!?! But more seriously, kudos to them for the full 180 fix. (Well, I know some hate the existence of the Touch Bar, but I think it has very interesting potential which perhaps could be realized with its major fatal flaw finally fixed.)
- DennisP 7y agoI wish it had one USB-A. I plug in a mechanical keyboard, and when a job provided the previous macbook pro, I managed to lose or break a dongle about once a month.
- bxparks 7y agoYup, the lack of USB-A (and the removal of the ESC key) is the reason I stopped buying MacBooks after many enjoyable years of using the MBA11, 2 x MBA13, and the 2015 MBP13 (arguably the best laptop ever made). Every peripheral that I own is on USB-A. Adding USB-C is great, but why remove USB-A? I just don't get it.
- theklr 7y agoWhy remove the CD drive? Why remove the floppy disk? They did a cost benefit analysis and made that risk. There's usb-C to usb-A converters. It's not that big of a deal as it seems.
- antonyh 7y agoI have one device which is USB-C - a mouse. In what world is a mouse better with USB-C? As for CD drives, the world moved on to bluray and that has a licensing cost as well as not fitting with the iTunes strategy of rent-and-never-own. Apple led, others followed. I'd still use it if it was built-in but not as an external: too much hassle to balance it on my lap and not drop the drive ruining the disk.
- asciident 7y agoWell for one the connector is better. It's quicker to plug it in if you know you aren't going to plug it in the wrong way the first time. Second, for my wireless mouse the charging is faster. Third, the cable itself is slightly smaller and you don't need to carry around an old USB-A to USB-C cable.
- DennisP 7y agoIt didn't seem like a big deal to me before I tried it, but it was since I couldn't keep from losing/breaking connectors. It gets annoying buying new ones all the time. I don't want to spend $2500 for a machine that annoys me.
- dpicco 7y agoIt's a small detail, but I'm disappointed that they didn't make the screen edges curved as they have done with iPhone, Watch, etc. That little touch made it so much more organic/human - the square screen edges just look dated in comparison to that design improvement in their other devices.
- saintx 7y agoPeople make a lot of noise about the missing function keys. But the keys that I miss the most on my 2018 Macbook Pro are the "E" and "SHIFT" keys.
- geekrax 7y agoFor m, it's "" ad "" kys.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Communitivity 7y agoI once saw a heat map of the Macbook Pro keyboard after a while in use. Heat spiked around WEASD location. Maybe it's where the CPU is located, but the extra heat could be why those keys always seem to be the ones that go (mine were s and d, and e sometimes). But you never know..this other Macbook Pro is from Mid-2014, and keys work fine.
- zelos 7y agoOr lots of people playing FPSs on their MBPs?
- pdpi 7y agoI think the OP meant literal heat, as generated by the CPU or other internals.
- askmike 7y agoYes, but zelos suggests that the reason these keys are problematic might not be related to heat but due to them being used more.
- Communitivity 7y ago
- moron4hire 7y agoWish they wouldn't call the display "immersive", especially with the knowledge that they're working on AR glasses.
- scarface74 7y agoJohn Gruber’s review https://daringfireball.net/ https://daringfireball.net/ And before everyone accuses him of being an Apple fanboy and biased, there is no disputing that he is very much a keyboard snob. He hated the last generation keyboard and he called it out during his initial review. He also famously still prefers an old ADB Apple Keyboard and he never bought a laptop with the old one. He’s also linked to a lot of articles criticizing it. If he praises it, I think you can trust him. Edit: And Marco Arment’s review. He’s never pulled punches when it comes to Apple’s hardware, their development tools, or the quality of the OS frameworks. He’s gushing over the review unit. https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16 https://marco.org/2019/11/13/mbp16
- AgloeDreams 7y agoAlso, the dude loves keyboards, he hated text editor controls so much he freaking invented Markdown.
- hombre_fatal 7y agoThe issue with the keyboard is whether it's good after a month or more of use, not how good it is fresh out of the box. I thought the previous macbook pro felt great for a week out of the box. Then switches started breaking and keycaps started coming off within the first three months. In fact, the issue seemed to be that it feeling good out of the box was the only testing Apple did on it.
- scarface74 7y agoTrue. But neither Gruber nor Marco Arment [1] liked it out of the box. Marco did buy one - he buys everything. You can listen to his review on the latest Accidental Tech Podcast. [1] just for those who don’t know, Arment is probably one of the best known indie IOS developers and the creator of Instapaper and the first developer for Tumblr.
- ihuman 7y agoThat Daring Fireball link just goes to the main page. Here's a permalink to Gruber's first impressions: https://daringfireball.net/2019/11/16-inch_macbook_pro_first_impressions https://daringfireball.net/2019/11/16-inch_macbook_pro_first...
- iddan 7y agoI've waited for this for so long
- nkkollaw 7y agoIs there any way to know if this will support a 5K monitor at dot-by-dot resolution..?
- calimac 7y agoIt’s amazing! They take away the 2011 17” and com back with the worlds best 16”. Apple marketing may be responsible for a dumber consumer Signed, Me (the guy who runs out and buys every amazing apple product)
- calimac 7y agoIt’s amazing! They take away the 2011 17” and com back with the worlds best 16”. Apple marketing may be responsible for a dumber consumer. What am I going to do with my 2019 15” i9? Signed, Me (the guy who runs out and buys every amazing apple product)
- gardnr 7y agoThe photos in the article do show the physical escape key but do not show the sides of the laptop where the ports would be. I hope that it has a MagSafe charge adapter and an HDMI port.
- rc_kas 7y ago> MagSafe charge adapter we all want that, but apparently its not coming back
- make3 7y agono, just usb-c
- serg_chernata 7y agoThen you'll be just as disappointed as I am. This thing comes with 4 USB-C ports and an audio jack. That's it.
- jmull 7y agoI'm guessing you're trolling, but just in case not, or for anyone else who doesn't want to look at Apple's web page: It's four USB-C/thunderbolt ports, two on each side, and a head-phone jack. BTW, magsafe is an optimization from a bygone era when you had to keep your laptop plugged in while using it. You can now (generally) leave your laptop unplugged as you use it and stow it somewhere out-of-the way to charge when you aren't. Like your phone or tablet. Magsafe is nice, but probably not worth it now that you don't need to routinely charge your laptop in a vulnerable position. And, of course, USB-C is very easy to plug in.
- orky56 7y agoIt would be ideal if Apple could figure out a way to make a magnetic USB-C port. At the end of the day, the USB-C cable brings much convenience but it is loose and constantly comes out, just slightly to lose the charge.
- fourseventy 7y agoAround the world thousands of vim users rejoice over the physical esc key.
- mozey 7y agoIs it just me, or does the touch bar remind anyone else of the MS Word Ribbon?
- usaphp 7y agoThose full sized arrows on current 15” MacBooks were driving me crazy! It’s great to see them put half sized left and right arrows back! I’ll Definitely b buying it
- hosh 7y agoIt's about time. Looks like they incorporated a lot of feedback.
- rcardo11 7y agoStill buying refurbrished 2015 model.
- dasKrokodil 7y agoThe best escape key ever!
- Reason077 7y agoWhy has Apple gone with Touch ID on Macs, while moving to Face ID on iOS devices? Is there some technical reason why Face ID isn't a good fit? I can't see cost being an issue, nor physical space for the sensor.
- abledon 7y agoCan't wait for the 2021 MBP where the keys are even higher in action akin to the 2011 MBPs, and the full Function Key row is restored.
- MaddAgent 7y agoI've been holding onto my 2015 MacBook pro now for ages, waiting and waiting. I'd like to see the touchbar disappear completely, and the function keys return - but the real escape key and no butterfly keyboard is enough of a change that I think I can finally buy another MacBook!! It was definitely off the cards for a few years there, and I was starting to wonder what I was going to do!
- 1024core 7y ago> The new Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key Hallelujah!!
- alexeiz 7y agoWow! The "New Magic Keyboard." I wonder what it is. Oh, wait, it's the old scissor keyboard. "Largest Retina display ever." With 226ppi... But the Esc key is back! I'm so excited! /s
- blhack 7y agoIt's hilarious to me that their own marketing image has two dongles plugged into the laptop so that the user can still use USB. Apple please for the love of usability: please give me back USB. I AM the pro that you want to feature in every one of your marketing videos. I have a music studio in my house, I build interactive lighting installations for the biggest music festivals in the world, I build custom hardware controllers for fire effects that travel all over the country, I travel around the world teaching people how to build hardware devices, and when home I spend the majority of my time teaching and building software that people love; I use my laptop for over 10 hours a day. All of this stuff uses USB. ALL OF IT. Having to carry around stupid dongles all the time is the biggest pain in my ass when I'm trying to do all of this stuff. PLEASE give me back USB, you can even call it the "stupid loser old crappy loser lame macbook for loser non pros". I don't care. This nonsense minimalist sleek design stuff is actually harming my productivity.
- rootusrootus 7y agoI take it you mean specifically USB-A? I can understand that, but I think I'd be satisfied if they would just put more than four USB-C ports on the thing. That should be the upside of a smaller USB connector, give me a dozen ports since dang near everything uses USB these days.
- alluro2 7y agoI think it is to be expected by Apple to remove 2 of those 4 in the next generation, or one afterwards. It's a logical (to them) step towards cable-free computing, which is great and all, but is the only way towards it forcing it through the customers?
- rgovostes 7y agoiPhones 8, X, XR, XS, 11 and 11 Pro have all supported wireless charging but retain the wired charging capability. I don’t think they are incredibly eager to eliminate ports if they don’t gain something from it (thinness, battery life, space for something else, or water resistance for example).
- braum 7y agoright... a "Pro" computer with only USB-C ports, no HDMI out, no SD card reader, soldered memory.... dongle dongle dongle. no thanks. (before i'm accused of being a troll. I have a MBP with all those things circa 2005 or so, it's old and slow AF now. But still works for what I use it for and I have quite a few PC laptops as well.
- loriverkutya 7y agoStill no MagSafe charger. Instant skip.
- dcchambers 7y agoNice. Hope these changes make it down to the 13" (or new 14") model.
- 013a 7y agoPrediction: These comments will be obscenely hostile toward the new device, yet the new device will rank among Apple's best selling computers to-date.
- i4t 7y agoPeople pay a lot of money for what is in reality an abridged notebook. "Look, we give you your Esc and arrow keys back" it's a scam.
- sub7 7y agoAnyone know why they didn't use the latest 10th gen processors?
- godson_drafty 7y agoFriendly reminder: it's == (it is | it has) It's my responsibility to correct grammar. it's been tough for the Lions this year. its == (the thing belonging to it) You should always judge a book by its cover.
- IridiumFX 7y agoWhen I clicked the link, I was full of hopes. My retina MacBook Pro is starting to feel tired. Then the bad news started flowing. Technology-wise we are really not there. Where’s my 4K/UHD screen, for instance ? 16 inch and not enough space for the numpad? I am, still an Apple fan, but i’s summarise this new machine as “Inching forward, still a massive failure” pun intended. I wish they could do a Sonic movie-alike U turn.
- DeusExMachina 7y ago> The 16-inch MacBook Pro features a new Magic Keyboard with a refined scissor mechanism Probably one of the most important features, even if mentioned in passing, given the problems of the butterfly mechanism.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ryanmccullagh 7y agoI checked my trade in value for my 2018 MBP. $1130. Come to think of it, my 15 inch is actually pretty big, so I'll wait to get the next generation.
- sidcool 7y agoThis is quite amazing...Wish I could afford it.
- chx 7y ago> 96W USB‑C Power Adapter That's a big deal for everyone. I do not know why it's not 100W but I will take what I can get. You see, Apple landing on 87W for their USB C adapter led to a lot of third party chargers also being 87W (or if multiple ports then one maxing out there) which is very frustrating to those who need more oomph. There's something to be said about education in the US when you need to explain to people a higher wattage charger doesn't damage their equipment...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nyxtom 7y agoApple: `git revert keyboard`
- tandr 7y agomore like "git cherry-pick esc"
- arshbot 7y agoThe lack of a larger screen size coupled with the keyboard deficiencies are what drove me away from macOS to various linux distros. While I'm immensely happy with my new OS - a lot more could be said about the hardware ( especially when running larger screens on pc that just can't keep up battery wise ). This is a phenomenal step in the right direction, but one that comes too late for me. At this point I can't begin to consider jumping back until macOS sees some substantial improvements.
- eloff 7y agoNow if they would just support the new 7nm AMD mobile processors, I'd buy one of these without question. But I have a feeling that next spring I'll have to choose between this Mac and lower compute performance or a half price Linux model from some Asian company with ~50% more oomph. Tough call. If you're a developer, which would you pick?
- themantra514 7y agoHello, 2019! Real talk, if I could easily do my own repairs, and HW replacements on it, I would get it. Typed on the flawless keyboard of my insanely awesome, truly immersive, MBP 17" Mid 2010.
- ChrisKor 7y agoLet's hope this gets other manufacturers to also release some 16" laptops.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bogomipz 7y agoI'm curious why the memory controller in that supports 64 Gigs would not have made it into the recent refresh of 15" MBP. Is this related to the new thermal design they mentioned maybe?
- honest_tovarich 7y agoJust bought the 15" 10 days ago... Hating myself already... :(
- jborichevskiy 7y agoI believe Apple lets you return for up to 14 days last time I checked. I assume you’d just have to wait a while for actual availability.
- honest_tovarich 7y agowill do that , thanks!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kondro 7y agoYou can still return it. Apple has a 14 day return policy, no questions asked.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bogomipz 7y agoI'm curious why this memory controller that supports 64 Gigs would not have made it into the recent refresh of the 15" MBP. Is this related to the new thermal design they mentioned maybe?
- murgindrag 7y agoI think my question will be ports. The article didn't say what they broke there. Will it only support Bluetooth headphones? Bluetooth monitors? No USB? No SD card slot? Especially for a 16" laptop, I'd like something without a mess of dongles and adapters. The 2015 15" Macbook was pretty good in this department, but Apple is on a port-cutting rampage.
- eugeniub 7y agoWell the tech specs page is up: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ 4 USB-C ports and a headphone jack. Same as before.
- Tehchops 7y agoKeyboard re-design and bringing back the ESC key will be huge. 64GB of RAM in a laptop... yowza.
- AtlasLion 7y agoTyping this from my two year old thinkpad with 64GB.
- Clubber 7y agoEven though I dislike their now standard 16:9 ratio, Thinkpads are top tier. I've been using them since the late 90s. I think the 770ED was my first one. I still have a W500 that's in use from time to time.
- AtlasLion 7y agoSame here, I still own many generations I now use a P50, almost went for the p52 with 128GB.
- css 7y agoBuried in this press release: > Today, Apple also announced that the all-new Mac Pro... will be available in December
- rb2k_ 7y ago"Today, Apple also announced that the all-new Mac Pro" "Mac Pro starts at $5,999 and Pro Display XDR starts at $4,999. Both will be available to order in December through apple.com." They keep announcing it, yet you still can't buy it. I wonder why.
- DonaldPShimoda 7y ago> They keep announcing it, yet you still can't buy it. I wonder why. There's some custom parts involved, so maybe it just required getting new manufacturing processes up to speed and it took longer than expected? I think the Mac Pro is not manufactured or assembled in China, which might be part of that additional time, too.
- ihuman 7y agoIs this the first time they said what month it was coming out? I thought until now they just said, "2019".
- rb2k_ 7y agoFair point. I guess there were only 2 months left in 2019 :D
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- blt 7y agoI guess the return of HDMI and MagSafe was too much to hope for :(
- cracker_jacks 7y agoI agree that the improvements like the ESC key and 16" screen are good things. But is it strange to anyone else that a company that prides itself on being innovative and motto is "think different" is parading around a screen size change and a keyboard regression as the biggest selling points for a product launch?
- peruvian 7y agoThis release is essentially a "we messed up, this is what you wanted all long", but they can't say that so they're using the regular MBP marketing talk. Not hating - I am getting this laptop.
- dasloop 7y agoPlus the updated CPU, RAM and GPU associated with a hardware refresh. They can be seen also as good selling points :)
- hu3 7y agoIntel processor riddled with vulnerabilities over AMD's 7nm state of the art processors which are cooler and more energy efficient? Overpriced soldered RAM? AMD GPU that's basicaly useless for ML instead of NVidia? None of these are good selling points.
- izacus 7y agoNo it's not strange. The MBPs are (were?) great, reliable tools on which thousands of professionals rely on every day. They also rely on being able to replace them with equivalent or better replacements when they break. They work. There's no need for needless new gimmicks. It's fine to have a reliable, consistent tool available for purchase. Just like Thinkpads, hammers and multimeters. It's ok to be conservative on new things in some market segments.
- jjoonathan 7y agoTrying, failing, and backtracking is an inherent part of innovation. It's not as sexy as trying and succeeding, but even Apple can't win them all, so the alternative is never trying. That would be the real stagnation.
- chx 7y agoIs anyone else wondering about that 8TB SSD bit? Unless they have four M.2 slots which I doubt they must use 4TB SSDs and that'd be QLC which sucks.
- dijit 7y agoThey don’t do slots. They’ll be soldered onto the board directly, straight into the T2 chip via PCI-E. Doesnt speak to the quality of the NAND, probably 3D/QLC though. For density.
- chx 7y agoYeah, I forgot, of course. In that case, who knows, there are 22110 enterprise 4TB SSDs using MLC even -- maybe they have enough space on the board for MLC or TLC. We will know when iFixit tears one down :)
- ben7799 7y ago64GB RAM is like "hallelujah". Doing enterprise dev with Docker + Java is pretty horrible with 16GB on my 2017 MBP. The fact that this review didn't even once mention the fact that this machine is now thicker & bigger and yet they didn't add any useful ports back in is amazing. I still hate that the 2017 one I have has only USB-C + Headphone jack. I appreciate that it still has the headphone jack. But at our office we all got OWC Thunderbolt 3 Docks @ $300/desk and the whole experience sucks.
- pwthornton 7y agoI'd get an external display with a dock built-in. I have the new 4k LG one at my desk, and I love needing only one cable to connect to my MBP when I'm at my desk. It even handles power.
- whalesalad 7y agoMy 15” has 32gb of memory and 4 usb-c ports. I’m excited too, but you could have alleviated your problems a year ago.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jeffshek 7y agoI was pleasantly surprised about the 64gb also. Same issue with Docker making me want to upgrade. This has the largest battery possible under TSA regulations.
- fjp 7y agoI have the 15" with 32gb and I thought docker was making my laptop shit the bed - screens flickering all the time, mouse barely moving, etc. It turned out to be docker plus Firefox (current version/Quantum yada yada) that was too much - I can't stop using all this docker stuff but I switched to Safari and haven't had any problems at all
- kitsunesoba 7y agoBoth Chrome and Firefox are much more demanding than many realize. It’s gotten to the point that they should consider a feature freeze and focus on nothing but efficiency and performance for the next few years.
- kls 7y agoFunny enough I just replaced my MBP 15 with a Sager notebook due to two of the issues they seem to have addressed with this release. First and foremost was lack of ram I have to virtualize a lot of specialty hardware for one of my clients so that I can simulate a total environment on a single machine. There can literally be 1000's of nodes running custom embedded systems. 16GB was stretching it on my last MBP and 32 just got me back in the game with my 15. I really needed 64GB and my new Sager has the ability to go to 128GB. The second was the move away from the 17 MBP I know they are not popular and I know the reasons for killing it, but I develop on the road a lot and the extra screen space helps when a second monitor is not practical. Had this been out 6 months ago I may have reconsidered my switch to a PC. That being said I am happy with my switch.
- xylophoner 7y agoStill with the annoying and disruptive touch bar.
- theklr 7y agoWhy does everyone seem grateful that they kept the headphone jack? Where did Apple give the impression that they would remove it from a more stationary device?
- w-m 7y agoThe headphone jack was removed from iPad Pros.
- theklr 7y agoIpad pro is marketed as a mobile device.
- frandroid 7y agoBecause removing ports and peripherals is a thing that Apple keeps doing.
- jeffshek 7y agoApple sent a survey asking once how macbook owners would feel if they removed it. They believe the answer is going to be Bluetooth.
- frisco 7y agoMusic production is usually Mac at this point, and that requires wired headphones/speakers. Not sure it’s big enough of a market that Apple wouldn’t drop it anyway, but Bluetooth latencies are too high to be a substitute there.
- TillE 7y agoAnyone doing pro music work will have a USB interface anyway. But, like, people listen to music and watch videos on their laptops, and it would be absurd to force them to use bluetooth headphones for no good reason.
- mhandley 7y ago
- Tepix 7y agoThe screen resolution of 3072x1920 (224.6ppi) is triple 1024x640. Apple states that it also scales to • 1920x1200 (3:5) • 1680x1050 (48:25) • 1280x800 (12:5) which obviously are all fractions. With the small pixel size (0.1122mm) it probably doesn't matter that much. The 16" display has a 16:10 aspect ratio.
- pwthornton 7y agoThis is Apple going all in on pro for this laptop. The display is fantastic all around, 64 GB of ram, 8 GB of DDR6 VRAM, 8 cores, biggest battery FAA will allow on planes, 8 TB SSD, etc. This will also be able to connect to Apple's upcoming 6K 32-inch display. This is a very impressive update all around and it shows Apple putting a lot of space between their pro laptops and the MBA and iPad Pro now. The lineup is starting to make a lot of sense again.
- w-m 7y agoWhen people cite the great feat of putting in a 100Wh battery into this laptop they seem to keep forgetting that the 2012-2014 models had a 95Wh battery and the 2015 model had a 99.5Wh battery. Only when flattening the design for the 2016 year did they reduce it to 76Wh.
- weego 7y agoWe're hoping undoing mistakes is a good step towards actual progress
- CiPHPerCoder 7y agoAs long as consumers are willing to shell out several thousand dollars per iteration of mistake-undoing then it's likely that some day you'll see actual progress.
- opencl 7y agoIn the specific case of the battery it's unlikely to get any bigger than 100Wh as that would make it illegal to take on planes in the US.
- nickflood 7y agoSome ruggedized laptops have two separate batteries for hot-swapping while keeping the PC on, and this way you can take a laptop with more than 100 Wh on a plane. The same way I take a 95 Wh laptop with a 75 Wh power bank. So never say never :)
- burtonator 7y agoWould it KILL them to build a regular keyboard with function keys? It's a $100 part... I can't be the only software engineer who refuses to buy it on this one major issue.
- ngcazz 7y agoI’m totally not regretting upgrading to this year’s 15 inch model. Just a huge bit. Apple do take your current model back for credit but given I’ll only get 900 pounds for it (presumably much more in the USA!) I guess I’ll stick to it for now. I’d be happy to pay a few hundreds for the upgrade; it’s unjustifiable to upgrade for full price minus a 900 pound discount.
- jonplackett 7y agoFinally a 1TB SSD is not eye-wateringly expensive. Even the base model is 512.
- peruvian 7y agoKinda wish it was $200 more for 32GB of RAM instead of $400 - my only complaint.
- jonplackett 7y agoYeah agreed. I have 16GB in the MacBook Pro I bought back in 2013. Surely in 6 years a doubling of ram should not be too much to ask without breaking the bank.
- modzu 7y agodongles. pros want dongles!
- jpalomaki 7y ago"Built‑in 100‑watt‑hour lithium‑polymer battery" That is quite respectable! As large battery as possible, instead of saving the few grams or cubic millimeters. I'm comparing this to for example Lenovo, which seems to like coming up with imaginary battery life promises ("The T490 delivers up to 16.1 hours of battery life") and then cutting the actual battery to minimum.
- AtlasLion 7y agoMy p50 has 70 whatt/h and as the battery is removable, I have 2 of them.
- rootusrootus 7y agoSweet, a MBP that lives up to the name again. Congrats on listening to your customers, Apple. Too bad for me, I gave in and 'upgraded' my 2011 to a top of the line used 2015 MBP about six months ago, now I kinda want this new one. Ah well
- EnderMB 7y agoWhile it's nice to see an opinionated company like Apple admit fault and revert to what people want, I wonder if this move is too late for many of those that decided to move away from Apple? Years ago, I switched to a Surface Book, and while I'm tempted to go back for this MBP I reckon that a Surface Book update would be enough to kill any desire for the Mac range. While Apple stagnated, many of the high-end manufacturers caught up.
- spiderfarmer 7y agoI waited a couple of years to replace my MBP. I will never switch back to Windows. I hate Windows more than I hate the butterfly keyboard and I knew Apple would have to come up with a better MBP at some point.
- whalesalad 7y agoOf course not. The people who complain on HN and switch to the “windows subsystem for linux” are a fringe minority. The rest of the industry is still jamming on a Mac.
- EnderMB 7y agoI'm not necessarily talking about developers. The biggest group that I've seen move away from the MBP range aren't developers, but are creatives - either in design or in sound/music. I know a few DJ's in my local area that have largely switched to Windows laptops because they feel tools like Ableton work better, and because they feel that for the price they're paying they're not getting value for money from the MBP range.
- AtlasLion 7y agoYou seem to be living in an all apple bubble. MBP share is tiny when compared to windows laptops.
- whalesalad 7y agoFor what industry? You're on HN not SAP daily. The rest of the world definitely runs on Windows but if you’re building software and reading HN you’re probably on macOS.
- burntwater 7y agoI don't believe this press release indicates which ports the laptop has. I assumed that meant it had a crappy selection, and further googling proves correct - 4 Thunderbolts and a headphone jack. In my eyes, that makes it a non-starter for an alleged "Pro" laptop. For the professional work I do, an SD card reader (for photos and video), HDMI/DisplayPort (for presentations, either in the boardroom or better viewing of photos and videos), USB A (because thumb drives), and for my specific work, an ethernet jack, are all required to do my job. Also magsafe power is a lifesaver. I'll be holding onto my 2014 15" until it's cold and dead. And if Apple still doesn't have a suitable replacement, Lenovo likely will still have great pro laptops.
- tracer4201 7y agoPlease give the same keyboard at the less than $1500 price point on the regular MacBook models. Also, give us ports and please stop with the thinner == better. This is a great step but I’m not spending $2600 on a new machine.
- pwthornton 7y agoA good guess would be that all laptops will get this new keyboard over the next year. There is no benefit to Apple shipping a keyboard that is in a repair program day one (which all of the butterflies are). This new keyboard is not part of the repair program because apparently Apple thinks it will be reliable.
- robertoandred 7y agoThis is thicker than the previous MBP and it starts at $2400, not $2600.
- briantmaurer 7y ago"The escape key is back, which is great." 2 minutes into the video.
- mrfinks 7y agoWhy is the touchbar still a thing. I hit the speaker button inadvertently at least once a day. "Pop!"
- angrygoat 7y agoDid you know you can rearrange the buttons for the touchbar? System Preferences -> Keyboard -> Customise Control Strip. My bugbear was hitting the siri button by mistake, I swapped that for a 'do not disturb' button which is harmless when pressed.
- lostgame 7y agoThe point is we shouldn’t have to be reconfiguring our laptops to make them usable. :/ I’m so over Apple hardware. Just let me hackintosh it.
- manaskarekar 7y agoThis is very close in dimensions to the 2015 15" rMBP. The thermals should be much improved.
- npongratz 7y agoThanks for pointing this out! In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to find this 16-inch model is very slightly smaller in each dimension than the 2015 15-inch rMBP. 2019 16-inch, per https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/ : Height: 0.64 inch (1.62 cm), Width: 14.09 inches (35.79 cm), Depth: 9.68 inches (24.59 cm), Weight: 4.3 pounds (2.0 kg) 2015 15-inch, per https://support.apple.com/kb/SP719?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/SP719?locale=en_US : Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm), Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm), Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm), Weight: 4.49 pounds (2.04 kg)
- andy_ppp 7y agoThicker, Escape Key, larger battery, better keyboard... it's almost as if Jonny Ive has left Apple!
- fhood 7y agoApple should just release a really really expensive version of the air. That way people looking for a designer laptop have something they can throw too much money at, and the rest of us can have a mbp that makes some allowances for performance. Edit: I may be overly snarky, but I find it hard to imagine that recent mbp models were not influenced by the social clout that the iphone brought to the apple brand.
- wil421 7y agoApple had social clout way before the iPhone. Macs were always expensive. Apple created a twentieth anniversary Mac (TAM) that cost $7,500 in 1998 and was delivered to your house by a Limo. The driver wore white gloves and hand delivered the TAM.
- aerotwelve 7y agoI'm thrilled that they've rolled back some of the worst post-2015 MBP changes. I'm a vim user, so I was never going to switch to something without a physical escape key. The key travel on the new machines were terrible; it's like typing on a piece of glass. Most importantly -- regardless of whether or not I have an external keyboard plugged in (sometimes I do, right now I don't) -- an internal keyboard needs to be reliable! I'm really glad Apple has seen the light and returned to the reliable scissor switched keys that I'm currently typing on. My Late 2013 MBP has been serving me well for the last 5 or so years, but I've been wanting to upgrade it ever since 2016 (the battery life is quite poor & the GPU is showing its age). I refused once I saw the changes in the 2016 MBP, and was glad I never bought in after seeing more and more complaints about the machines roll in every subsequent year. I spent the next two years hoping for a redesign & started to give up. As much as I didn't want to, I've been spending the past few months looking at ThinkPads and Dells and mapping out my transition from OS X to Linux. As much as I love OS X (and I do -- I've been dreading having to leave it), I just could not spend $2000+ dollars on a computer that I was going to have to fight with to make it work like my old one. This is going to be a daily driver, not a novelty or a toy. Yes, I could've remapped my escape key to caps lock. Yes, I could've bought a bigger laptop bag that could fit a small external keyboard. Yes, I could have learned to live with the new key travel. This is all beside the point if you ask me: I shouldn't have to do that. Frankly, I'd be okay if Apple kept the old model around, as some people (including many commenters above me) have grown to prefer the butterfly keyboard. Maybe some people prefer the extra touch bar space? (I don't see why it has to be one or the other; I remember how many MBP variations/SKUs Apple carried when I started buying MBPs back in 2010.) Just give me the option to opt out of these things -- even most of these things -- and I'll keep writing you checks. I'm looking forward to doing this in a couple months assuming the reviews on this machine are good.
- cactus2093 7y agoAs a fellow vim user, I highly recommend mapping caps lock to escape anyway. It's a huge game changer whether you have a physical escape key or not.
- whalesalad 7y agoI have a one year old 15” that I’m super bummed about now. It’s a pretty powerful machine w/ 32gb of ram but I wish I could have waited for this. Problems I currently have that are annoying: - I miss the 13” air form factor a lot. I knew it would be a trade off for the performance, but using this beast anywhere but on a desk is pretty tough. On a plane you need a first class seat to open it. It gets super super hot with most workloads. - there is an obnoxious electrical whine coming from the mainboard and it might be the SSD. Lots of videos on YouTube show that the ssd actually makes a lot of noise and almost sounds like it’s a physical disk. Poor manufacturing from Toshiba. I guess that’s really it. I just wish I could use it on the couch without burning my thighs. I don’t have any qualms with the keyboard or touchbar. I have caps lock remapped to escape so that doesn’t bug me. Also the touchbar is in “old school mode” or whatever so it looks like a regular function key bar on a non touchbar Mac.
- greggman2 7y agofor whatever reason wishing for anything different always gets downvotes for Apple. I like the changes. I wish they would target weight next. 2kg is nearly twice as heavy as the same size LG Gram and 33% heavier than then 17" LG Geam. No, I don't want an LG Gram but I would love a lighter 16" MacBook Pro.
- cpr 7y agoBoy, every new Apple laptop release people harp endlessly about the cost. Look, people, Apple high-end laptops generally cost $3-4K. And if you think that's high, you're forgetting that (in many of our cases) you're running your whole business on that. $3-4K every couple of years should be in the noise. Cost relative to other laptops has little meaning, if you want high-end Apple gear.
- blevin 7y agoThe line about the “Apple-designed rubber dome” sticks out. Why even say that? Did Apple not design the other bits? My sympathy for whomever over there is trying to navigate the whole keyboard situation and messaging.
- legohead 7y agoWhy does it still have an aux port? I thought Apple had courage.
- JshWright 7y agoIt doesn't cost anything in this form factor, and laptop users are more likely to use corded headphones, rather than earbuds.
- ActorNightly 7y agoIts really weird that removing basic functionality is seen as courageous.
- psim1 7y agoWhy does every Apple promo read like a Trump speech or propaganda out of North Korea? "Most superlatives ever!" Am I being facetious? This kind of excessive language - every single time - is actually a big turnoff to trusting Apple's product announcements. With such excessive adjectives, I can't take it seriously.
- mikestew 7y agoWith such excessive adjectives, I can't take it seriously. Oh, but you trust every word of the press releases issued by other companies? C'mon, it's a press release, not a canonical religious document.
- shadykiller 7y agoWell at least it's not 3000USD as was rumored :)
- docmars 7y agoFin-all-y, Apple. Took you 4 years to release a notebook with a sensible keyboard. Sass aside, thank you. I'm very pleased!
- noarchy 7y agoIt is unfortunate to see the jump from 16 GB to 32 GB of ram cost so much. I realize this isn't anything new for Apple, but I would have hoped for the base 16-inch model to have 32 GB at this point.
- imagetic 7y agoBut can you buy it WITHOUT a touch bar?
- fakename 7y agoWhat's the best option for getting rid of a 2016-18 mbp? Do you think they'll do direct swaps when our keyboards fail?
- dblooman 7y agoMy only hope now is that my current MBP fails and i can get a new one under apple care.
- ogre_codes 7y agoThe big problem with the Touch Bar for me is the difficulty building muscle memory because it's only used part of the time. I have to learn 2 workflows "Docked" and roving. Since for me I spend so much more time docked, the Touch Bar patterns never get added to my muscle memory. If there was a Touch Bar based external keyboard I would at least have the chance to try it full time.
- fhood 7y agoNot a ton of new information presented here, but it is nice to hear that the reviewer quite likes the new keyboard.
- Simulacra 7y agoI've been scared away from Apple for some time. It started with the touch function keys, then the butterfly keyboard, reducing ports, reducing the machine to near throw-away status when the warranty is up, while remaining very expensive. Never say never but I don't see anything here worth pulling me back, when their are PC laptops that could do the job just as good, perhaps better.
- gfiorav 7y agoWindows development -- specially if you develop with a terminal editor -- has become very feasible with WSL. I was scared away from Apple by the keyboards and found a new dev home in Windows. I've tried to go back for personal projects, but it's just too much conversion for very little compensation. I think I'm done with Apple macs
- pmontra 7y agoI'm not a fan of Apple but there are a few things I like of this laptop. Starting with the most important: - It's got no number pad, so the screen, the keyboard and the touch pad are aligned with the nose of the user, which doesn't have to shift the laptop to the right to work and have 2/3 of the screen to his/her right. - It's got a slightly larger screen than my HP ZBook but it's narrower and lighter: 14.09 inches (35.79 cm) and 4.3 pounds (2.0 kg) - It can go up to 8 TB of storage and 64 GB of RAM (but there are laptops with 128 GB in 2019). I didn't investigate if it can be upgraded (RAM and SSD) or if everything is soldered.
- jordache 7y ago"The 16-inch MacBook Pro features a new Magic Keyboard with a refined scissor mechanism that delivers 1mm of key travel and a stable key feel, as well as an Apple-designed rubber dome that stores more potential energy for a responsive key press" Wow..
- jimnotgym 7y agoI had the displeasure to have a quick go on a new Macbook Air. I decided after some testing that I prefer the keyboard on my calculator. Then I had to ask what the point was of making a laptop so thin that it can't have any real ports, then having to carry a bag full of adapters? I'll stick with my Thinkpad T480
- hcurtiss 7y agoTotally agreed. My T480s is an amazing machine. High performance, great keyboard, every imaginable port (RJ45!), excellent battery life. I can't believe it doesn't get more love.
- megablast 7y ago> You can spec this machine up to 64GB of RAM and 8TB (not a typo) of storage on the SSD. That’s just a massive amount of storage — and it will cost $6,099 to get a fully loaded 16-inch MacBook Pro. Wow, that is a lot of computer. Even the base model is 16gb and 512gb.
- ActorNightly 7y agoI urge everyone to remember Apples actions regarding HK protests,specifically how they are able to remove an app from the store, without any easy way to side load it on devices. Also keep in mind that warranty and repairs on Mac products are a complete ripoff.
- vkaku 7y agoLooks like an upgrade, for sure. I'd look at it if they did a few more things: 1) Ryzen Options; Icelake Options 2) Regular USB 3 Ports and 3.5mm Jack 3) Make the Touchbar Optional. 4) Do not solder stuff to the Board.
- csomar 7y agoThis is too irresistible not to upgrade. I'm more interested in CPU/Memory and the Graphic card bump is only $100. In total, it should cost $3.900 excluding taxes (or $2.500 if I "trade in" my current machine). Looking at the competition, a ThinkPad P53 Mobile Workstation with the 2.3Ghz processor / 32GB of RAM will cost $3.759. I think the pricing is very competitive, given that the ThinkPad is a giant box. So even if Lenovo lowers its price in the next iteration of its ThinkPad, the MacbookPro will quite match up. Kudos for Apple for doing this!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kraig911 7y agoStill wish it had a touch screen. The physical escape key is nice. The fact I can hackintosh a touch screen dell xps to see if my app's gestures work etc is just so crazy why they won't give in.
- dang 7y agoRelated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21523736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21526058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21526058 has few comments but points to a long interview with Phil Schiller that has some interesting things but (brace yourself) says basically nothing about the touch bar.
- bearsnowstorm 7y agoI’m going to wait on this until at least a few months have elapsed and the reviews / forums indicate the keyboard is fine.
- jasoneckert 7y agoIt's nice to see Apple fixing their keyboard issues (they don't normally bow to customer pressure). I just wish they would allow Linux to be installed natively on it (with supported touchbar drivers, etc.). And a small part of me secretly wants Apple to release a MBP with a TrackPoint, just to see people's reactions ;-)
- wcfields 7y agoAll those specs and yet only has 802.11ac, and not 802.11ax?
- EricE 7y agoAbout time!
- GordonS 7y agoSomething I found hilarious: I just clicked through to the purchasing page, and at the top there is this: "Get a refund of up to $2530 when you trade in an eligible computer, or recycle it for free.*" If you click it, it asks you to choose if your trade in was made by Apple, or "Other" - if you select "Other", it says: "Based on what you’ve told us, your computer is ready to recycle" Beneath, not so hilariously, there was: "It’s a big win for the planet. Recycling your device helps replenish resources and drive innovation." Come on, this is marketing spin at it's worst, and not the kind of thing I'd expect a "hipster" company like Apple to say!
- EugeneOZ 7y ago$2800 in USA and $3600 (€3200) in Europe. "Inspiring" difference... Maybe it will be less expensive to order from the USA...
- tobyhinloopen 7y agoUS prices don’t include tax, EU prices do. Compare the ex vat price to the US price.
- RenRav 7y agoWhat the heck is that thing above the number keys? It looks like a strip of a touchscreen.
- dafman 7y agoIt is, that’s the Touch Bar that has replaced the function keys on MacBook Pros. Not a fan at all as I use the fn keys a lot on a MacBook but I can’t see them getting rid of it for a while
- locusofself 7y agoThis looks really nice and I want one, but 1mm of key travel doesn't seem like something to brag about. I know it's a personal preference thing, but 1mm ?
- pkamb 7y agoThe "Inverted-T" arrow keys here are way better than the previous version with full-height Left/Right but half-height Up/Down. But I've always preferred the "6-key" layout, as seen on ThinkPads. Half-height arrow keys, but then an additional key on top of both Left and Right. Commonly marked as Page Up / Page Down, but easily reconfigurable to 2 additional arbitrary hotkeys. Looks nice and symmetrical enough for Apple. Wish they would use it.
- dreamcompiler 7y agoRAM and HD are still soldered down, which means you have to decide up front how much you want and you have to pay the 3x-4x Apple markup on both. These are both dealbreakers for me, and the continuing inadequate port situation just seals the deal. It's a no.
- HugoDaniel 7y agoStill using Intel though.
- eecc 7y agoI like it, finally Apple although I’ll still wait for the 13” to downsize (the touchbar is still just an excuse to drive the price up.) The real issue here is the intel chip. New vulnerabilities have just been found and the company isn’t addressing them so I’m starting to question the platform. What about an AMD machine. It would be cooler, slower yet un-throttled so about the same performance. But it wouldn’t be a sitting duck.
- cfitz 7y ago"Bigger, better, and more broken than ever before." (Disclosure: My 2017 MBP has been repaired 8x and replaced 1x. My iPhone repaired 1x and replaced 1x.)
- msvan 7y agoSo Apple made a decent MacBook Pro again. Good. But they still haven't made things right for the lemon they sold me. My keyboard is still not working, even after I handed it in for repair twice. Now I'm expected to shell out a few more grand just to have a working f key, and Apple is not even willing to acknowledge that they for years sold faulty products to gullible idiots like me. Would it really hurt their octibajillion dollar valuation too much to just make things right for the customers who got shafted by their broken keyboard design?
- notadoc 7y agoBig plus to regain the Escape key. Hopefully the new keyboard is reliable. The Touch Bar is forgettable and a row of physical function keys would be an improvement. I don't know any "pro" user who likes the Touch Bar or who wants to look down at the keys when typing or interact with a microscopic touch screen. Still puzzled by the lack of ports for a pro laptop. It's 16" with a huge body, not particularly thin or light, and they couldn't add two USB-A, SD slot, HDMI? The age of a dozen dongles continues. 64GB RAM option is a big plus, though the prices are 2x-3x market. Presumably the SSD is still soldered onboard, which basically makes these unrepairable and disposable premium priced laptops. Overall far better than what it replaced, but still missing some key features from the 2015 MBP line which remains the best Mac laptop ever made. Will be interesting to see if they ditch the 13" and move to a 14" with similar specs.
- alexashka 7y agoI'm a bit surprised no one has talked about the price. Starting at 2400$US? That's... a lot. For anyone who is going to use this as their primary computer, the real price is 2800$. That's a lot... Who is the end consumer here? Folks who are computer illiterate and want 'the best' laptop apple has to offer? Laptops promote poor posture, can't match desktop speeds and are expensive! Their use-case to me is limited to business people who hop from meeting to meeting all day, but then you don't need the horsepower and will be fine with a 500$ option.
- shadykiller 7y agoI love the USB C/Thunderbolt 3 connector on my Macbook. I just have a single cable going into my mac from the display which also has the keyboard and mouse connected to it. The single cable does charging, display and peripherals. For work, I have this display: LG 5K2k (https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-34WK95U-W-ultrawide-monitor https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-34WK95U-W-ultrawide-monito...) For a cheaper setup at home: LG 27inch USB C Monitor(https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-27UK850-W-4k-uhd-led-monit...)
- aecorredor 7y agoI’m kind of amazed that people want a better laptop speaker. I feel that’s like the one thing that could be just decent and nobody would complain. Everybody I see either uses headphones or a bluetooth speaker.
- z3t4 7y agoHow can one use a laptop for several hours every day without developing neck pain!?
- voldacar 7y agoAh yes, nothing says satisfying like 1mm of key travel
- drno_ 7y agoImagine being excited for this...
- insta_anon 7y agoImagine they offered the same configuration with and without TouchBar, with the model with TouchBar costing $400 more - how many people would choose the model with? I bet less than 5%. Is Apple afraid to offer this because it clearly would show that almost no one is ready to pay for it? Even from this audience, who of you would be willing to pay the premium for the TouchBar?
- btian 7y agoWhere did you get the $400 number from? That feels ridiculous (50% the cost of a new Macbook Air).
- eberkund 7y agoBack when they first introduced the Touchbar they offered MBPs in both configurations and the price difference was $400 for the same model with and w/o the Touchbar.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Grustaf 7y agoDidn't the non-touchbar version have lower specs? I'm pretty sure I tried speccing the other one to the same level and the price difference was very small.
- cedivad 7y agoPeople in here would probably pay not to have to deal with the TouchBar at all.
- esolyt 7y agoI would pay a premium for NOT having a touch bar. I want physical keys for brightness/volume etc.
- insta_anon 7y ago
- CM30 7y agoHmm, so they improved the keyboard? Kinda makes me wish I'd waited a bit longer to buy a MacBook Pro, since I think I would have preferred this version of the keyboard to the one on the version I'm using right now. Still, the important thing is that Apple seemingly listened to feedback. Too many double down on bad decisions regardless of feedback.
- luckydata 7y agoIs it me or this laptop is eye-wateringly expensive? I'm no Mac noob but it's getting a little hard to justify the expense to stay in the ecosystem.
- yreg 7y agoIt costs the same as the 15" did while starting at a much better base configuration, so if anything it's nice that they didn't felt like increasing the price.
- aylmao 7y agoI do wonder how the prices stalk up historically, adjusted for inflation. Flagship iPhones apparently are getting more expensive[1]. [1]: https://digg.com/2018/iphone-prices https://digg.com/2018/iphone-prices
- kylec 7y agoThe stock configurations are exactly the same price as the 15" used to be, but now with double the storage. So it's actually better value now than it was.
- lowercased 7y agoand... I'm feeling it because I just bought the 15" $2799 model 5 months ago, couldn't justify the extra $ on a 1TB model, and now it's built in. :/
- suyash 7y agoNo NVIDIA GPU means No CUDA :(
- m0zg 7y agoPricing is shot across the bow to Lenovo: higher end configs of Carbon X1 Extreme have similar prices, even though they aren't really comparable in terms of brand recognition and in some aspects of hardware quality. Good. Then there's also the fact that X1 Extreme is troublesome when it comes to Linux compatibility, so if you want a proper Unix-like experience, Mac is still one of the best options, although Microsoft is really trying nowadays. If someone from Lenovo is reading this: I like Carbon X1. I'd buy X1 Extreme if it ran Linux as well as plain X1 does. I'm not price sensitive. But Windows is not really viable for me when it comes to professional use. Looks like Apple will be getting another $3K or so of my money 6 months from now after other people beta test the new MBP for bugs.
- temptemptemp111 7y agoYes, and Lenovo should have a better screen and non-soldered memory... I'd go that route too.
- ilaksh 7y agoIt just seems like, for people who aren't wealthy, it might make more sense to buy a gaming laptop and get very close to or better specs/performance and save $500 or maybe even $1000. Although I guess the reason people waste money like that is partly just to prove they can waste money.
- jbverschoor 7y agoStill waiting for the 14”
- nvr219 7y agoAwesome, can I get this but 12" and without the touchbar? In fact can I just get a 12" powerbook with new guts?
- musicale 7y agoI wonder if they fixed the trackpad? The previous trackpad's palm rejection never worked properly. It always surprised me how broken the palm rejection was on the recent MacBook Pro since previous models (2012-2015) running the same macOS version had no such issues; moreover, palm rejection also works fine on the iPad and iPhone.
- IgorPartola 7y agoOff topic, but can someone explain to my why their releases start this way: > Cupertino, California — Apple today unveiled an all-new 16-inch MacBook Pro — the world’s best pro notebook It’s on apple.com for fuck’s sake and if you don’t know that Apple is based in California, do you really care? Why do they write this stuff as if it’s some other entity writing about Apple as opposed to “today we are pleased to announce...”?
- pram 7y agoIt's a press release.
- qz_ 7y agoThe idea is that press releases that look like articles make lazy journalists less critical. Because the phrasing is already very similar to the end result the journalist has to produce, the path of least resistance is to simply copy as much as possible. Lots of big comapanies do this nowadays.
- ngrilly 7y agoExactly.
- ngrilly 7y agoIt's a press release. These are conventions used in press releases: mentioning the location, using the third person, etc.
- abvdasker 7y agoWhen they get rid of the touchbar that's when I'll upgrade from my 2013 MBP and not a day sooner.
- meed 7y agoAs much as I appreciate Apple's U turn on the idiotic design of the butterfly keyboard switches, I still: - cannot even begin to understand why these things lack an important usability feature like MegSafe: there is really absolutely no reason why it cannot coexist with the ThunderBolt I/O (4 TB ports, one MegSafe: charge it however the heck you want). - find the presence of the castrated TouchBar an offense to users. It seems they just want to shove it down our throats whether we want it or not. Just make it optional: I'm sure that there are certain users out there that love it but every single peer of mine [1] hates the sole idea of something like that. [1] I'm a software guy in the Valley
- andrei_says_ 7y agoThis would be amazing.
- unethical_ban 7y agoFWIW I just came up with the idea of a magsafe adapter for male and female USB-C, and it turns out it already exists for $23 on Amazon. I ordered one. https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Charge/dp/B07MMKZ8XD/ref=sr_1_3 https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Quick-Char...
- slics 7y ago“ The new Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key” - really? It was there as a physical escape key, Apple removed it, put it back in and called it, wait for it ... a physical Escape Key.
- jmspring 7y agoThe Touch Bar is still there and horrible. The price on the 16" model is downright insane. Add some customizations past the bare bottom and you are up in the stratosphere. I'll be sticking with my 13" 2015 MBP for the foreseeable future. I'll just build up a home machine that I can log into and do some heavier workloads on.
- overgard 7y agoHow long until they walk back the touchbar though? I figure if it was useful to anyone it would be cloned by now. I cant imagine they're holding onto that feature for any other reason than to save face.
- mikewhy 7y agoThere have been multiple variations in other laptops. How successful they are, I can't comment on. Screen in touchpad: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/asus-zenbook-14-ux434fl-ub76t-laptop/92QGN1B30DBF/9X2V https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/asus-zenbook-14-ux434fl-ub... Screen above keyboard: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/asus-zenbook-pro-duo-laptop/8S9CL2FTP7RV/4L5T https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/p/asus-zenbook-pro-duo-lapto...
- whalabi 7y agoThe current MacBook pros are a menace for the sounds those keyboards make alone. I was stunned that no one at Apple heard that ridiculously obnoxious CLACK CLACK CLACKING and didn't think we would do something about that. Does anyone inside Apple know how that disaster of a keyboard came to be? How did logic and rationality not see it turfed the moment it was trialled? (This new keyboard claims to be quieter. Although calling it "magic" is just so pretentious and so.. Apple)
- royalghost 7y agoI paid $4k for a 2017 Macbook Pro and if I want to trade-in this device to get a new one, I am getting only $1k. This is bullshit.
- devin 7y agoI bought one. If they hadn’t produced this I would have walked on Apple hardware. The only thing that is jaw dropping to me: the price tag. I’m surprised to not see people talking about it in the comments. 3900 US without Apple care? Holy god. I bought the max spec or close to it in 2015 for 800+$ less. The differences are negligible, and then I spent an additional 200$ on dongles I don’t want. I’m probably not done. When all was said and done I spent 4600$ on this machine. I make my living on a computer and I need the pro part of the MacBook Pro, but it is still a really jaw dropping price for what it is.
- devin 7y agoTotal difference in cost? ~1500$. That seems a ridiculous difference for modest hardware improvement and the requisite gaggle of adapters. I’m happy with the machine, but it’s probably 500$ more than what I would have been comfortable paying for the hardware. In the past I remember feeling like what I was getting was worth it. In this case I feel price gouged.
- mensetmanusman 7y agoConfigured with 8 TB? That is more than they allow you to purchase with iCloud... wonder how that will break things
- gradstudent 7y agoAbout bloody time, Apple. Too bad I bought a ThinkPad back in June after THREE YEARS of ESC'less computing. This after almost two decades of not even looking at non-Mac machines.
- tmaly 7y agoI am really stoked about this. I am typing this on a 15 inch MB Pro. I survived the keyboard issues by not buying a new MB Pro. There is always this lurking sense that if my existing MB Pro dies, that I would have to transition to something with a defect. This new model has piqued my interest. I am excited to see that it has a bump in memory. That has always been something that has not sat well with me. Newer software demanding more and more memory while models of the MB Pro has been released with no increases in RAM.
- w1nst0nsm1th 7y agoI simply don't get it. NH reader base are usually well versed in technology and as such we should expect them to get some attitude towards their computer. We have basically a computer which will never allow you to install what you want except if that software is signed by apple in a process taking 1 minute and said to garantee an extra level of security (how this process is able to check on any security issue in 1 minute is beyond my understanding) to user. So they simply lose the ability to install anhthing not signed by apple. Old programs, a ton of open source programs. If Apple decide tomorrow to stop its signin program (and it will happen soon or later), user will be basically stuck with a computer limited to install Mac Appstore Software. This is as significant as the fact there was a nodejs issue regarding the inability of the team behind it to distribute new release of nodejs because apple server simply refused to sign the package that contained the binary. Apple computers are destined to become giant iPhone once apple decide to ditch apple notarization program, and the user will be leftwith absolutelly no control of what's happen in their computer like what is the case in ios device. How someone with technical education can be satisfied with such scenario is beyond me. AApple computer are simply becoming Grandma computer.
- raskalnikov81 7y agoSorry, that keyboard has screwed me too many times.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jbverschoor 7y agoWhen does a 14" mbp come out?
- WA 7y agoWow, there's only one kind of sleeve: Made of leather (non-vegan) and quite expensive. Bummer!
- deepaksurti 7y ago``` def test_apple_is_back_for_pros(): 16_mbp = 16MBP() 16_mbp_specs = 16_mbp.specs self.assertTrue(16_mbp_specs.thicker) self.assertTrue(16_mbp_specs.escape_key) self.assertTrue(16_mbp_specs.larger_battery) self.assertTrue(16_mbp_specs.better_kb) ```
- JohnGB 7y agoI'm still using the last Macbook Pro without a touchbar, and plan on not upgrading until either this dies, or Apple decide to make a laptop with a full keyboard. If it dies before that, it's Hackintosh or Linux time. It honestly astounds me that the device that has traditionally been adopted most by developers has lost so much of what developers need in favour of gimmicks.
- BigJ1211 7y agoAs a developer I rarely use the function keys, I only need it for debugging purposes. I much prefer ergonmic keyboards, so I rarely use the one on my laptops. But whether it's Windows/Linux/MacOS I rarely require the function keys. As a mechanical keyboard enthusiast I have them in a different layer for the rare occasion that I actually "need" them. I have far less gripe with having my mousehand of the keyboard when debugging than I do when typing regularly. You can easily use a tool like https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/ or `brew cask install karabiner-elements` to remap fn + number keyrow to be the function keys. Offtopic: Typing this on a Redox Wireless keyboard, it's great for developing on. It's a split ergonomic columnly staggered ortholinear keyboard, the [] keys are in the middle of the split parts. And you have thumb clusters.
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- classified 7y agoToo little too late. By now, Apple has lost me. The only Apple HW I might (theoretically) still buy is a Mac Pro, but not in practice, since you can't get it with a 32-bit capable OS any more. So fuck Apple. I'll have to get Windoze hardware and put a BSD Unix on it.
- iceporter 7y agoI don't get it why they remove the full size left and right arrow key?
- jordache 7y agogood thing that john ivey has left apple.. this is a good direction change.
- bori5 7y agoOver 1500 comments and not a single word that MATLAB runs 2x faster on this new Mac than before.
- mxxx 7y agoInteresting that the tag line is "world's best". I feel as though they usually go with something more quantitative like "fastest" or "most powerful", etc. "Best" obviously being completely subjective.
- mikorym 7y agoI think the next logical step for Apple is to use textual analysis on this HN thread to optimise for what the following change should be...
- mrankin 7y agoI’m so happy about all the keyboard changes.
- spoown 7y agoWouah , what a nice price! How do thzy people buying at such jigh price tage? Always amazed... even if the software and hardware are really great!