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Facebook account now required to login to Oculus devices

• k__ 6y ago
  "If you are an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can continue using your Oculus account for two years." Phew
  • bussierem 6y ago
    As someone noted above -- that 2 years is the statutory warranty period for the EU. They are setting that time limit so existing users can't call to return Oculus saying "I don't agree to these terms" because _they aren't terms yet_ for that user. But by the time they finally require you to log in with the account, it will be impossible to refund because you are outside the legal warranty period for both US and EU. It's planned exactly to trap people who already bought so that some percentage will "give in" and just log into Facebook so that they don't suddenly have a VR device (and VR library) that's not worth anything to them anymore. There are far more people who will do this than those that won't, and that's a portion that COULD have returned it if Facebook was allowing them to.
    • robert_tweed 6y ago
      It's worth noting that the statutory warranty period in the UK is 5-6 years (depending on which country), not 2 years as is the minimum required by the EU. So it might be interesting to see how this plays out here, although I'm not holding out a lot of hope for a positive result.
• Aardwolf 6y ago
  My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?), why does a device with two monitors and motion sensors require it?
  • throwaway2048 6y ago
    If those devices were invented in 2020 you can be certain they would all be "platforms" with monthly subscriptions. They would also have nonstop rabid defenders on social media.
  • willcipriano 6y ago
    >My monitor, mouse and keyboard don't require any accounts (yet?) I take it you don't have any Razer devices.
    • georgeecollins 6y ago
      The Razer accounts are in no way mandatory. They just have an app that auto-updates drivers (and probably does a lot of data mining) but you don't need to use it to use the device. It is a funny comment though, I laughed when I read it.
      • Lammy 6y ago
        And the Facebook account was in no way mandatory for Oculus until today's announcement we're commenting on. What's your point?
      • mschuster91 6y ago
        > They just have an app that auto-updates drivers (and probably does a lot of data mining) but you don't need to use it to use the device Uh, yeah, updating drivers for mice. Just WTF? I get that it makes sense to have a capability of correcting bugs, but that should not require an app.
      • TillE 6y ago
        My Razer mouse is basically broken (it's not that the sensitivity is too high, it's just...completely off) until you install and log in with their app. Only after you log in is the mouse movement fixed. I would never buy another Razer product, specifically because of this.
        • 6y ago
• AlexandrB 6y ago
  > Giving people a single way to log into Oculus — using their Facebook account and password — will make it easier to find, connect, and play with friends in VR. Ugh. I guess Facebook is making a play to become the Steam/XBox Live of VR. Why can't we just have gaming peripherals anymore without some kind of platform tie-in?
  • bitwize 6y ago
    Because this is how the industry works now. Investors want to see the consistent revenue of XaaS platforms, so XaaS platforms are what you get -- and if you want hardware, it will be platform-tied.
  • phone8675309 6y ago
    Because the companies make a large amount of money on the platform. Look at Apple/Google/MS/Sony/Nintendo charging for access to the platform - either explicitly for online play, by taking a cut of sales on the platform, or in the case of the console makers - both. As someone who prefers to play games alone, it's frustrating. The first five minutes after installing Steam is a constantly stream of "stfu and stop shoving game release/update/sale announcements in my face", "gtfo with the popup messages that a friend is playing a game", "wtf? why are you auto-logging me into the messenger", "no, I don't consent to you building a hardware inventory of my machine and using it for internal stats", and "jfc, please just leave me alone and let me play some games". It's almost enough to make me buy a shack in Montana and support the post office.
    • _trampeltier 6y ago
      For me it's the reason, why I never started gaming again. I just wanna buy a game and play. I don't wanna have any spyware on my PC.
      • phone8675309 6y ago
        GOG is good if the game you want to play is on there - if you don't install GOG Galaxy. You can download an executable installer from their website that is DRM free, can be installed offline, and you can keep a copy of forever.
• mortenjorck 6y ago
  So if I don't have a Facebook account and I buy an Oculus Quest after October, does this mean I may have to submit a copy of my driver's license just to set up a piece of consumer electronics?
  • fullshark 6y ago
    You need to submit a copy of your driver's license for a FB account these days??
    • rement 6y ago
      If that is the case it would be harder to get a FB account than to vote in some states...
      • malcolmgreaves 6y ago
        What do you mean? Are you aware of a long history, and continued attempts today, of voter disenfranchisement in the US?
        • rement 6y ago
          I am but I am also aware that a functioning democracy requires that the people trust the polls. And one piece of that is verifying that those who vote are who they say they are (and are citizens of the country they are voting in).
          • malcolmgreaves 6y ago
            So you're in favor of zero cost licenses and zero cost delivery of said licenses. If your means of identification or authorization to vote aren't free, then you're advocating for a pool tax, which is illegal. I'm not sure if you realize that there's only a handful of confirmed cases of voter fraud in the US in decades. The current system, based upon an address registration and someone confirming their information at the polling place, has achieved this result.
• entropea 6y ago
  >If you’re an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can continue using your Oculus account for two years. At least this gives me enough time to sell my Oculus and buy from another company.
  • WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    Yeah, they just lowered the resale value of your hardware... HTC Vive it is then.
    • mrguyorama 6y ago
      Better throw my "old" vive on Ebay. Some people are going to need some headsets!
  • ljm 6y ago
    Yeah 2 years is enough for me to enjoy the Quest and then move on. I deleted FB for a reason and it will stay that way. A shame that their shitty growth hacking position will contribute more e-waste to the environment unless the headset can be fully jailbroken.
  • grumple 6y ago
    Exactly. I deleted my Facebook account years ago. I have an oculus account. Really disappointing though, it means I either have to link that to my girlfriend’s account or sell the oculus within two years. Realistically I’ll probably sell the quest, stick to buying steam games from now on, and buy a headset from a different company as soon as they get a wireless headset.
    • shigawire 6y ago
      Is there anything to stop you from making a fake Facebook with a throwaway email and use that? Or do they verify accounts in some way now?
      • shadowgovt 6y ago
• DonHopkins 6y ago
  They should shape the Oculus Quest like an Alien Facehugger. https://www.getdigital.eu/Alien-Facehugger-Plush.html https://www.getdigital.eu/Alien-Facehugger-Plush.html
  • brian_herman__ 6y ago
    This TBH
• riskyfive 6y ago
  I guess there are still other brands who sell headsets :/
• tantalor 6y ago
  I made an FB account just for Oculus apps that need it. It has no personal information about me except email address.
  • johannes1234321 6y ago
    ... and the personal data on how much time you spend in which game, whether those are day times or night, whether it's regualr or irregular etc. from which different information on your situation an be derived. If it's connected to your desktop, it can also use all the dark patterns Facebook knows to tie it to your other activities ...
  • hammock 6y ago
    Isn't it against Facebook TOS to have more than one Facebook account, or to open a Facebook account for someone/thing that isn't a real person?
    • speedgoose 6y ago
      Worst case they delete his Facebook account and he can create a new one.
      • ericd 6y ago
        Are his game purchases tied to the deleted FB account?
      • hammock 6y ago
        Try to say that about Google
  • Zenst 6y ago
    Put in a data information request and see what they do actually know about you. May well be insightful. Friends who have your email and phone number in a contact entry who also have FB and synced contacts - etc etc etc. May well have more information than just an email address and way to look at it is - would you bet a large sum of money that is all they have? Always a good way of putting perspective upon things I find.
• georgeecollins 6y ago
  This is sad to me. I would like hardware to be hardware and services to be services and I don't want a piece of hardware to require a particular service, particularly when the hardware is of general purpose. I can accept that an XBox wants an XBox live account because an XBox is for one thing, playing games. An Oculus device really ought to just be a display peripheral that is used for communications, for content creation, and yes games. I want something like that to be as open as possible.
• atarian 6y ago
  Palmer Luckey, the original creator had this to say over on /r/oculus: I am already getting heat from users and media outlets who say this policy change proves I was lying when I consistently said this wouldn't happen, or at least that it was a guarantee I wasn't in a position to make. I want to make clear that those promises were approved by Facebook in that moment and on an ongoing basis, and I really believed it would continue to be the case for a variety of reasons. In hindsight, the downvotes from people with more real-world experience than me were definitely justified. A few examples below so people won't make up their own version of what I actually said: - I guarantee that you won't need to log into your Facebook account every time you wanna use the Oculus Rift. - You will not need a Facebook account to use or develop for the Rift - Nope. That would be lame. - I promise. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_users_required_to_use_a_facebook/g20dysu/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/ic4ye1/new_oculus_u...
  • daenz 6y ago
    >In hindsight, the downvotes from people with more real-world experience than me were definitely justified. I don't want to assume bad intent, but I find it hard to believe that someone could be so naive about the project and the organization controlling it.
    • ocdtrekkie 6y ago
      Without assuming bad intent, I think it's safe to say people will tend to think in line with what makes them comfortable with the massive amount of money they are about to get.
    • exolymph 6y ago
      Why do you find it hard to believe that someone could be so naive?
      • daenz 6y ago
        A combination of his past successes with Oculus, Facebook's track record, and his extraordinarily high confidence that the thing lots of people were afraid would happen, wouldn't happen
• Baeocystin 6y ago
  Pretty much exactly what I was afraid of when they were first acquired, and what they initially promised they wouldn't do. Looks like the success of the Quest has emboldened the reinholders. That as of this posting, 100% of the comments are a variation of 'WTF', it's pretty telling they felt they could get away with it regardless.
• zelphirkalt 6y ago
  How to immediately lose a segment of your customers? Hmmm ah yes, require FB for login! Way to go!
  • rapnie 6y ago
    Guess the extra PII + the ad space are more valuable to them than a slight decrease in hardware sales.
  • baby 6y ago
    Serious question: do you really think that someone who is enthusiastic about VR would refuse to get the best headset out there because they would have to create an account on some service online? I can’t fathom how that would stop anyone who is truly interested about playing VR. It’s like telling someone they will need a PS account to play the playstation or a Xbox account to play the xbox, they’d probably be fine with that.
    • techer 6y ago
      I wouldn’t have bought one. At least I get two years use.
    • thecatspaw 6y ago
      Is the Quest really better than the Vive pro? or the Valve index?
      • Tijdreiziger 6y ago
        It's certainly a lot more affordable.
    • Tepix 6y ago
      I currently own a HTC Vive (+wireless) and the Oculus Go. I was planning to sell both and buy the new Oculus Quest 2. I will not do this now. Bummer.
    • zelphirkalt 6y ago
      So, just to understand what you say correctly, I will ask: Do you think it is ethically tenable to require these VR interested, enthusiastic people to sign up to FB (known to be privacy nightmare), so that they are able to use the product they spent lots of money on? Is it acceptable to force them to do this, just because they are sufficiently interested in VR? Is it in general OK to force people to connect with a third party, which has nothing to do with the actual product? I am not sure whether you are trying to justify this move, or whether you are questioning that it will have an economic impact or really what the point is.
• yial 6y ago
  Well, as someone who has been social media free since 2015 this really just encourages my feeling that I must not need one. (Even though I want some VR setup )
  • grillvogel 6y ago
    you are literally posting on social media right now
• slenk 6y ago
  Welp...I now have an Oculus Rift S for sale.
• eugeniub 6y ago
  Well this is horrifying. I bought a Quest for a relative. He loves it, but he doesn't have a Facebook account, and has no interest in signing up. I have a Facebook account, but I don't use it, and I certainly don't want to connect my Oculus account. I guess we'll both have to sell our Quests. That means we'll lose all of our game purchases. I came to Oculus with eyes wide open knowing it was a Facebook company, but this news still sucks.
  • rolph 6y ago
    so here i am wondering if facebook would be challenged by a constant flood of anonymous [off graph] accounts constantly flooding in. how many 3card monte accounts per second would be required to keep the account verifier demon flooded
  • tobrien6 6y ago
    Just make a burner Facebook account. You can do so with a burner email. Annoying, but not horrifying.
    • deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    • Alupis 6y ago
      Sometimes Facebook requires a photo ID to be submitted before "approving" a new account. Seems to happen when they suspect the person isn't real (fake name, or whatever).
      • emerongi 6y ago
        My grandpa accidentally used a phone number to register when he was trying to log in. His original account got promptly locked and for months they would periodically lock it. He had to provide ID proof every time. I don't use Facebook, but I totally recognize how valuable it is for my grandpa. Sadly, Facebook does not allow any mistakes to be made on its site, which is what older people tend to do when faced with new tech.
      • 6y ago
• jugg1es 6y ago
  The comments on the original article seem to indicate that only facebook thought this was a good change haha.
• apazzolini 6y ago
  I'm tired of saying fuck Facebook on HN threads, but man, fuck Facebook. If I ever move my racing sim rig to VR, it's definitely not going to be an Oculus.
  • halfFact 6y ago
    This really is no surprise. So many threads on the front page shocked at the evils of Facebook and Apple. All were predicted given their past record. Don't buy from bad companies and this isn't an issue.
    • Ace17 6y ago
      ... except when the non-bad company you bought your DK-1 from gets bought by a bad company.
      • ahartmetz 6y ago
        Non-bad companies could set up "will not get bought by Facebook" poison pills. Say they will release all IP to the public domain when acquired by Facebook. Enforceable contract with a third party.
        • goodluckchuck 6y ago
          That's exactly what happened here. The question is whether Oculus's customers will enforce the promises of never requiring a Facebook login.
  • ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
    I'm tired of reading these type of comments. Do you enjoy VR? Just create a facebook account, that's not a big deal. There's nothing evil there, people are just grasping for straws.
    • apazzolini 6y ago
      I deleted my FB account over 5 years ago. A few years after that, I tried creating a new one to sell something on Marketplace, and they closed my account, saying I needed to provide a driver's license due to fraud. I'm not giving FB my driver's license to sell something online, and I'm certainly not going to do it to play a video game in VR.
• commandertso 6y ago
  I -just- decoupled Facebook from my Oculus account in preparation for deleting Facebook. I guess in two years I make a throw-away account, or better yet, move to Valve's current offering. I'm super done with this company.
  • tasssko 6y ago
    Valves VR looks awesome!
  • sharken 6y ago
    Good move, Valve are gamers at heart while Facebook is out to get your data and make as much money possible from it.
    • AlexandrB 6y ago
      Valve is also private. Theoretically they have more leeway to make short-term unprofitable decisions without having to answer to public shareholders.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        Theoretically, but their history suggests they won't. This is the company that made gaming on Linux viable, has a platform open to all VR hardware, and lets people sell keys on alternative stores without even taking a cut even though they are clearly in a very dominant market position. They have their faults, but acting like a modern big tech company isn't one of them.
  • olex 6y ago
    Same plan here. The Quest I got earlier this year is my first and will be my last Oculus device. Hopefully someone else makes a comparable headset soon (comparable = full wireless PCVR capability, like what the Quest + Virtual Desktop offers), ideally at a comparable price point as well... how hard can it be, the Quest is 1.5 years old by now, there's gotta be something at least similar in the works somewhere.
  • 6y ago
• KingOfCoders 6y ago
  Have a Rift S, left FB several years ago, now forced to go back in the future. I hate you FB. Will not buy Oculus again.
• kostadin 6y ago
  Great, I can now attempt to sell my Vive Pro because this will surely drive up demand for it.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• phone8675309 6y ago
  I guess I know what company to not buy any VR hardware from.
• Keverw 6y ago
  What happens if you were banned from Facebook (for example political censorship or other possible reasons I can't think of off the top of my head)? Is your Oculus device bricked and useless? I'm a fan of Oculus, but this is a bit of a turn off. But I guess if Apple makes their own VR headset, they probably require an Apple account but Apple isn't really a social network so feel less of a risk, same for Microsoft's Mixed Reality headsets too I'd imagine. Then your purchases and stuff are lost too, I guess as WebXR matures though maybe there will be some great apps you can just pay directly for on the web, but I feel like if rumors of Apple making a headset they'll just skip WebXR and force the app store... I know other headsets including the Oculus supports WebXR but sorta feels like it's a conflict of interest to their own stores to me so wonder how much more advanced it'll get.
  • cma 6y ago
    Apple is now using the notarization system on desktop to ban apps from companies that broke iOS App Store rules, so you could for instance get your drone strike death toll app that was making a political statement taken down and lose your desktop notarization (which was supposed to be about security only) on a totally unrelated app in retaliation.
    • Keverw 6y ago
      Yeah seen that Apple is doing that for Epic's Fortnight. Won't be able to sign for Mac, but people could still install it if they turn off gatekeeper which I doubt many people would mess with, been a while since I've done that myself since I use dev tools. I think now on Catalina and newer Mac versions even more steps. Used to be a checkbox, but I think you have to use the terminal now? Never really worked with Unreal but wonder if this will affect other games using their engine, not sure if there's like signed dylibs and stuff. All this security stuff is cool but in a way more control. It's like you paid all this money for something but in a way you don't really own it. Like some graphic card company sells graphic cards including server graphic cards, but their driver's EULA doesn't allow you to use your desktop cards for server use. I guess the hardware being used 24/7 wasn't designed for that, but sounds like they should deny your warranty then instead of turning it into a copyright issue. Some game streaming company ran into this problem.
• xwdv 6y ago
  People will bitch and complain, but at the end of the day, there’s no better device for untethered VR that you can take and setup anywhere.
  • Aerroon 6y ago
    That just means there is no device for untethered VR. I think this is more likely to just limit VR adoption more than anything else.
    • shadowgovt 6y ago
      I don't think it'll have a meaningful adoption-limiting effect, and honestly, this is the most interesting dynamic of technology right now. Voice recognition is an extremely solved problem. A lot of the hard part of the AI---the stuff that appeared impossible in the '80s---works consistently on Google, Alexa, and Siri. It just needs to know enough about you to make intelligent guesses at your intent. ... which means it needs access to all that big data the big company collected on you and users like you. There are technologies that are owned by big companies that will leverage them for ecosystem lock-in. Want a neat personal assistant? Sure; just use your Google account. Want some untethered VR? No problem; just login via Facebook. And that's generally how things will be; you don't have to use it, but you'll be off the cutting edge if you don't. Because ecosystems are where the money is, and cutting-edge tech costs money. That's the iron law of capitalism and technological progress. (I'm still waiting for my Linux phone. Thought it might be shipped to me in 2020, but with COVID slowing down production, 2021 looks more likely. But at least I'll feel some moral superiority once I have the thing in my hands that other people already have if they just give up and buy into a big-data vendor's ecosystem. ;) )
    • mynameisvlad 6y ago
      The general public doesn't give two shits about privacy and the amount of data that Facebook collects. They'll gladly go along with this to continue playing their games. What this really means is that there is no untethered VR device for privacy-minded folks which make up a tiny portion of the overall VR users.
• ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  Honestly, the number of times an acquiring company has promised "we'll never do this" and then "done this" is so staggering, I think any acquisition promises should be codified with the FTC during the acquisition process as consent decrees or the like, and it should require regulatory permission to roll back. And then anything claimed not listed as such should just be assumed to be a lie.
  • ahartmetz 6y ago
    Yeah, like the last time Facebook "did that"! Merging data from WhatsApp and Facebook in that case. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_1369 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_17_...
• Santosh83 6y ago
  The larger point here is that there needs to be sensible limits on how many markets or products a single company or group can operate in (among many other regulations). Otherwise the endless acquisitions by the global behemoths will continue right into techno-fascism of one kind or another.
• DannyB2 6y ago
  I never have nor never will have a Facebook or Twitter account. Probably not other social media either. It's bad enough having a Google account and all that encompasses. It is astonishing that another company would require an account on some other system. Now I don't have a problem with allowing using your Google, Facebook, etc. account as a convenience to authenticate your account on some other service.
  • delecti 6y ago
    HN is social media.
    • DannyB2 6y ago
      I suppose you could say that about any online forum. There is a qualitative difference between HN and Facebook or Twitter. One of these doesn't try to pry its tentacles into every aspect of your life while trying to capture every possible scrap of information about you known and unknown.
• peanut_worm 6y ago
  How much longer until we need to login to use create-react-app
  • shadowgovt 6y ago
    That would be difficult to enforce, since React is open-source. It'd take ten seconds for someone to fork it.
• atoav 6y ago
  I recently gave a seminar about how to use Oculus devices in combination with Unity at university. Oculus produces great devices, but man is the software a convoluted nightmare. A (very patient) student of mine tried to install the oculsu software on a current thinkpad for 4 days in a row. It always failed for various reasons. She used a current Windows 10 and her computer definitly has the specs. She even reinstalled windows. In the end there was an electron error, which we sent to the support - we never got a reply. If you can avoid Oculus, do so at all cost.
  • apta 6y ago
    What are viable alternatives?
    • britmob 6y ago
      The entire SteamVR ecosystem or WMR.
    • mlindner 6y ago
      Vive would be the immediate thought. There's also the pretty expensive Valve Index which is pretty much the best VR system you can buy right now.
    • q3k 6y ago
      SteamVR/OpenVR. It's fantastic.
    • GloriousKoji 6y ago
      Valve, HTC and HP.
    • forcedsignup 6y ago
      HP Reverb G2 seems the be the most competitive so far. It's still in pre-order so its not battle-tested yet, but its 600$ and has comparable hardware to the valve index ($1000). Still 200$ more than oculus headsets, but that gap is much better than the 600$ from oculus to valve headset
    • ogurechny 6y ago
• nbrempel 6y ago
  I've been really interested in purchasing a VR platform but Oculus' Facebook integration has always been a dealbreaker for me. What are the alternatives for a self-contained VR system? I don't want to have to plug into a PC.
• twox2 6y ago
  I just changed my mind about getting an Oculus.
• dreen 6y ago
  I already had to tie it to a Facebook account in order to record video on Quest, unfortunately. Quest is a great device, but I don't think my next VR headset will be an Oculus.
  • techer 6y ago
    It’s a super device but I’ll never recommend it again.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• mabbo 6y ago
  I just bought a new gaming PC powerful to be usable with an Oculus. I have some cash handy from a stock sale as well. I was really considering one. That's never going to happen now.
• oxymoran 6y ago
  Death to Facebook
• Shorel 6y ago
  When will Carmack jump ships and go to join Valve?
  • sharken 6y ago
    It seems he will not if this article from 2018 is to be believed. But he is also a Gamer and a reasonable guy, so he might have a change heart. Link: https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-i-intend-to-stay-at-facebook-after-oculus-quest-launch/ https://uploadvr.com/john-carmack-i-intend-to-stay-at-facebo...
    • criddell 6y ago
      I thought he was working on AI now?
      • sharken 6y ago
        Indeed: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/john-carmack-steps-down-at-oculus-to-pursue-ai-passion-project-before-i-get-too-old https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/13/john-carmack-steps-down-at... https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2547632585471243&id=100006735798590 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2547632585...
  • soulofmischief 6y ago
    https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-13-john-carmack-agi.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-11-13-john-carmack-agi.html he's just a consultant now but you can bet he's been disillusioned by all of this.
• evo_9 6y ago
  This was the reason I bought an HTC Vive instead of a Rift; I never trusted that this would hold. I recently considered buying a Quest. I won't ever consider that again. Don't support Facebook ever, they don't deserve it. Incidentally here is a comment I made recently about the bullshit they pulled on my wife and I relating to creating a business listing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959088 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959088
  • ehsankia 6y ago
    The SteamVR ecosystem is just so much nicer. I trust them far more than any of the alternatives. OpenVR for example has lead to many fantastic tools.
    • evo_9 6y ago
      I didn't know much about Steam before I bought the VIVE and yes, it's actually a very nice platform. One thing that isn't apparent - you can return any game for a full refund within a certain (fair) amount of time owned and/ or you don't exceed some (also fair) time-of-play amount. It makes me more likely to try a game on a whim knowing and if it's not for me I can refund it without hassle. Great way to handle it, I currently own close to 100 VR titles and have refunded at least 20+ that just weren't for me.
      • Lycake 6y ago
        There are a lot of things that could cause you to not being able to enjoy the game, that you can't see in screenshots or videos. Issues with movement, room scale or motion sickness. Compared to 2D games, it can be the case of "I can't play the game" rather than "I don't want to / don't like the game". So the refund system is especially great for VR.
      • darrenf 6y ago
        FWIW, Oculus has the same system - IIRC, you can return for a full refund if you haven't played more than 2 hours in 14 days since purchase. I've used it, and IME it was seamless.
• saos 6y ago
  Talking of login. I’ve just tried to login to EBay app using Google authentication. I have 2 step verification turned on. It now specifically requires gmail app to access the verification code. It no longer supports Apple mail app. Is this a sick joke? The only way around it was to send the verification code via tex. I'm so concerned now that Google will only send verification codes to Android device in the future.
  • mlindner 6y ago
    I recently switched from using Chrome to Firefox. Next on my list is probably to try to wean myself off of using Google search. Getting my email off gmail is going to be harder and not sure what the best way to do that is.
    • kube-system 6y ago
      Get a second email -- potentially at your own domain so you are never again locked to any particular service -- and use it in conjunction with gmail. Sign up any new accounts to your new email, and slowly migrate others as you see fit. After a year or two, your gmail will only receive spam, and anything important will be in your new account.
      • mlindner 6y ago
        The "own domain" is the hard part here. I've never owned one and figuring that all out takes time. Even more so getting all the email server configuration figured out.
        • kube-system 6y ago
          It's super easy. Pick a registrar, find a name that exists, and pay the ~$15/yr. If you pick a mail service that lets you bring your own domain, they almost all have step-by-step guides to configure it. It's a half-dozen settings to copy/paste. Using your own domain certainly isn't a requirement, but it lets you easily get out of this situation without any trouble if your next provider decides to do something you don't like.
• electrondood 6y ago
  Making a lot of expensive bricks just like that.
• electrondood 6y ago
  Cool, so your existing Oculus device is guaranteed to be an expensive brick 2 years from now if you value privacy in any way.
• danShumway 6y ago
  A very brief history of Facebook's involvement with Oculus and how this has shaped up, just from quickly searching HN previous posts: - (2014) Facebook acquires Oculus: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469115, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7469237 - (2016) Oculus's privacy policy sparks concern: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11410809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11410809 Oculus responds to privacy concerns about user tracking (https://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-privacy/ https://uploadvr.com/facebook-oculus-privacy/) saying > Facebook owns Oculus and helps run some Oculus services, such as elements of our infrastructure, but we’re not sharing information with Facebook at this time. We don’t have advertising yet and Facebook is not using Oculus data for advertising – though these are things we may consider in the future. - (2019) If logged into Facebook, Oculus data may be used for ads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21770752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21770752 From their official statement: > If you choose not to log into Facebook on Oculus, we won’t share data with Facebook to allow third parties to target advertisements to you based on your use of the Oculus Platform. - (2020): Facebook accounts are now required. None of this is particularly surprising, lots of people (even in the press) were calling out how this was going to evolve. But it's still interesting to look back 6 years and see what the initial reactions were and what people were most concerned about. The takeaways: - data silos are always temporary - companies think on a larger timeline than just 2 years in advance - this kind of thing nearly always gets executed as a slow boil. Facebook didn't buy Oculus and immediately require an account and start advertising to users. But I don't believe for one second that Mark wasn't thinking it at the time.
  • umvi 6y ago
    But did Facebook add any value (i.e. engineering money/hours) to improve the device? What you've listed are all negatives, but there have to be at least a few positives to come out of it.
    • nerdponx 6y ago
      there have to be at least a few positives to come out of it. Why does this have to be true at all? Let bad things be bad, and deal with them. Don't try to rationalize away problems.
• martindale 6y ago
  Why do I need to log in to my display device?
  • laichzeit0 6y ago
    You made the mistake of thinking it's your device. It's Facebook's device, you just payed to use it.
• azifalix 6y ago
  No Facebook, and therefore no oculus needed..
• koalaman 6y ago
  Don't you need to be at least 13 years of age to register a Facebook account?
  • soulofmischief 6y ago
    I believe Oculus' TOS also "requires" you to be 13 or older. Stares at VR Chat
• kmfrk 6y ago
  What a trip this has been from the Kickstarter to its acquisition to this situation.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• Bhilai 6y ago
  I think there is a lot of benefit from unifying various identities and identity stacks. You can put all the investment in improving one identity platform instead of trying to maintain a user identity for every acquisition you make.
• mensetmanusman 6y ago
  ‘ Please log in to your national ID account before turning on your vehicle. ‘
  • mensetmanusman 6y ago
    This is in jest, but we all know this is what the future holds. Isn’t it interesting how inevitable this all is/seems?
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  • Yhippa 6y ago
    More like "please drink a verification can".
    • genpfault 6y ago
      Classic![1] [1]: https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png
• mensetmanusman 6y ago
  Because there are multiple VR headsets, the only charitable argument for doing this is to market: ‘the occulus is for jumping in a facebook world to visit your family’ I can buy that, if they refund current owners who don’t want that...
• freejak 6y ago
  Here comes the walled garden. I don't have an Oculus HMD but took the risk of purchasing exclusives from their store and running it via Revive. Looks like those days may be over soon.
• shoulderfake 6y ago
  I was considering buying a VR headset,Oculus just dropped their name out of the hat
  • 52-6F-62 6y ago
    I've owned the first Rift kit for a couple of years. I'll either stop using it by the time 2023 rolls around or be looking for new offerings. One of the things that pleased me about it is that it hasn't already been rendered obsolete. Well I guess FB has set a date on that now for no good reason on the user end. I'm curious to see what might be coming around hardware-wise in that time.
  • pornel 6y ago
    HP Reverb G2 is coming out next month, and reviews are amazing.
• soulofmischief 6y ago
  So how do I get my money back, since my Oculus Rift is now completely useless to me unless I allow myself to be spied on? I purchased these devices with the promise that I would not need a Facebook account, and I do not have one..
  • tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
    You can't, because you can continue to use your device without a Facebook account for two years... which just so happens to be the statutory warranty period in the EU.
    • soulofmischief 6y ago
      How convenient... At least I made it a point to only purchase VR games from Steam.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
        I'm in the same position as you, and from what I can tell we should be fine, though we may have to put up with some nagging from the damned Oculus store. > [Re: 20203] If you choose not to merge your accounts at that time, you can continue using your device, but full functionality will require a Facebook account. Which I read as "you won't be able to use the store anymore or receive driver/software updates for Oculus". I'm ok with that. By 2025 I'll either not be doing any VR or will want a new rig anyway.
• bane 6y ago
  I'm reminded of this blog post from 2014. The predictions made here so far have basically all held true 6 years later. http://assayviaessay.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-spaces-real-data.html http://assayviaessay.blogspot.com/2014/03/virtual-spaces-rea... This action feels really connected to the coming Horizon virtual world thing -- which coincidentally is also predicted in the blog post linked above. https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/25/facebook-horizon/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/25/facebook-horizon/
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• antonf 6y ago
  Just ordered my Oculus Quest from Costco a week ago, and it's scheduled for delivery today. And I have no problem using Facebook account. Yeah, my data will be used for ads, so what? How is that such a big deal for some people to sell the device they otherwise enjoy?
• Kapura 6y ago
  Incredible. I deleted my facebook account earlier this year, and I've been looking to get a VR headset. This sort of forces me into the Vive camp, I suppose.
• jandrese 6y ago
  The most annoying part to me is that the only reason Facebook should have had any interest in Oculus (apart from the money of course) is to create a VR/AR social network. Yet here we are 6 years later and no Metaverse.
• wnevets 6y ago
  So glad I never bought an oculus. Is anyone really suprised?
• LeicaLatte 6y ago
  I assumed Facebook had already done this. Users are so naive for assuming it would never happen.
• surfsvammel 6y ago
  I don’t have a Facebook account. My birthday wishlist just got one item shorter :(
• OkGoDoIt 6y ago
  I’ve been wanting to buy an Oculus Quest since lockdown started, but I’ve been having trouble finding one in stock for a reasonable price. I guess I’m glad I didn’t succeed in purchasing one, and now I won’t be buying one at all.
  • baby 6y ago
    I’m moving out and selling mine if you’re in the bay
• ipsin 6y ago
  I'm curious -- I have a Facebook account, but I have the app platform disabled. It seems that the app platform may be used for managing logins on third party sites. Are they likely to require it for Oculus devices?
• rcarmo 6y ago
  OK. I had planned to get an Oculus Quest for Christmas (since it is reasonably accessible, flexible and probably the best all-around headset out there right now), and how my gut feeling is... No. Just no. I don't want to have Facebook on anything. I might consider creating a brand new, singleton account to use it, but to be honest my gut reaction is that if they do not have a non-Facebook login, I will just _not_ use it.
• silentsea90 6y ago
  I don't get what people over here expected when Facebook acquired Oculus, and also don't get why it is so hard to create a throwaway facebook account. No condescension. Just not sure what I am missing in the extreme positions here
  • baby 6y ago
    Same here. It feels like an overreaction.
    • techer 6y ago
      I will use mine for 2 years but I have zero need for social.
  • cranium 6y ago
    I think this is due to Facebook stance to disallow these kind of accounts without a real name. They can block your account if they think you aren't using your real name and have you submit an official ID card or driving license to unlock, process that may take weeks. Also, forcing people for no real reason to create (or use) an account on a platform they hate is revolting. No everybody wants to use a social network to share with "friends" their gaming habits, or to play local games.
• monadic2 6y ago
  Are the devices any good?
  • PostThisTooFast 6y ago
    No. They look like something you saw at SIGGRAPH in the '90s.
• john4534243 6y ago
  I have invested heavily learning react and react native and i don't have(or want) facebook account. I will remind this incident in the future before investing time in any thing related to facebook.
  • stjohnswarts 6y ago
    Isn't react open source though? Why would you care about the source of it if it serves your purpose? Facebook doesn't make any money off react or as far as I know use it for political leverage. Can you point out why you'd quit using a technology because the person/company behind it is "bad" ? The Nazis improved rocket technology tremendously during WW2 and we didn't toss that knowledge because the Nazis invented it.
    • dTal 6y ago
      The analogy would work better if the Nazis were still around and handing out rockets for free, to make it easier for them to hire engineers who know about rockets, so that they can launch better rockets at people.
    • john4534243 6y ago
      Its not just about the react being opensource. Its the philosophy that drives the ecosystem. Facebook can come up with a react component for VR on the browser which work's really well only with facebook account.
• benbristow 6y ago
  I'm amazed so many people care. Not having a Facebook account for me is social suicide. Helps that Messenger is a very good messaging app and Facebook the main site is a good timewaster. Make a throwaway one if you really despise Facebook so much.
  • C19is20 6y ago
    No.
  • hans_castorp 6y ago
    Absolutely not.
• asldkjaslkdj 6y ago
  I was starting to look into VR and I guess this crosses Oculus off the list. I don't intend to ever have a Facebook account.
• djsumdog 6y ago
  I have an Oculus Go and pretty much only use it for Skybox and nothing else. I hope I can just disable all updates and keep using it without connecting it to a FB account. I haven't even bought anything on the store. I guess it might be time to look at FOSS alternatives for these devices, just to keep basic functionality. I wonder if the bootloaders are locked.
• downshun 6y ago
  Well. Another lost customer here.
• james_s_tayler 6y ago
  Need to log in to Facebook to use VR. It just doesn't even make sense. FB is too entrenched in our lives. And for what?
• droopyEyelids 6y ago
  Anyone remember the site https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ - it records all the startup acquisition letters. There should be a sister site that records all the post-acquisition promises that get nuked
• redbeed 6y ago
  Good that i bought a index.
• cosmojg 6y ago
  Fortunately, OpenHMD exists: http://www.openhmd.net/ http://www.openhmd.net/
• ozten 6y ago
  This looks like a great opportunity for pine64 to make a wireless 6DOF headset (Quest clone) They already ship a mobile phone. https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
  • neonhat 6y ago
    LOL good luck with that.
• croes 6y ago
  That kills the possibility of selling your account.
• outworlder 6y ago
  > We will take steps to allow you to keep using content you have purchased, though we expect some games and apps may no longer work. Complain as much as you want about Steam, at least they are a games store and store only. I don't know why anyone would buy games from the Oculus store.
• wpdev_63 6y ago
  They probably want to cut down on people reselling their accounts with the games in them. That's what I did when I sold my oculus during the quarantine. Why shouldn't I be able to resell my games just because they're digital now?
• xg15 6y ago
  This is something that still completely baffles me about the "IoT"/"smart devices"/"connected devices"/"whatever you want to call it" space. If someone advertised a device as capable of doing X without it in fact being able to do X, they'd be liable for false advertising. If someone sold you a device, then took it back or destroyed it, they'd be liable for theft or destruction of property. Nevertheless, if someone sells you a connected device and then completely alters the rules by which the device operates at an arbitrary point in time after the sell, that's perfectly fine. Have we really given up basic consumer rights that easily?
  • ccktlmazeltov 6y ago
    You need internet to download games to your oculus quest, so it makes sense to have an account to keep track of what games you own no? I still don't understand what people have against this change. You needed an oculus account prior to this, now it's a facebook account, what's the big deal?
    • achr2 6y ago
      Really? I have never and will never have a facebook account, so this expensive device is now a paper weight..
      • jjaredsimpson 6y ago
        Kinda absurd. You can setup a one time email, and one time facebook if you really want to segregate. Sure you win on principle, but that's just the same as losing.
        • TT3351 6y ago
          Actually you can't, because Facebook will lock your account for inauthentic behavior. Try making a fake account, and see how long you can hold on to it without being extorted for personal, identifiable information.
          • 6y ago
• whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  Genuinely think VR would be dead by now and considered a flash in the pan fad if it wasn't for the software and hardware Oculus has done. Valve and HTC just really didn't invest the time and money seriously in the platform and think HL:Alyx only shipped because Oculus dragged the format forward and showed the potential. Just don't get why they're doing this at this point, I'd understand if they had iPhone level sales but although the Quest is selling great it's not there yet and it seems a misstep to push everyone into FB from it so soon lots of people will be turned off by the idea. Forcing the tens of thousand Oculus holdouts and saving a handful of engineering salaries surely can 't be worth the bad press and harm to the growing platform Hope the 4 people who bought Quests after playing mine don’t whinge to me about this.
  • CobrastanJorji 6y ago
    When the actor seems irrational, you should step back and ask "who is the actor and what are their motivations?" This doesn't feel like an act of Facebook as a whole. They should be thinking long term, big picture. Zuckerberg seems to have an image of Neuromancer's Matrix in his head, and we ain't there yet. He'd definitely take this step but I wouldn't think he'd do it until he more solidly owns VR. What I see here is a senior manager type, maybe a VP or a bit below it, who needs numbers that go dramatically up and to the right in the short term and is thinking about their own personal success. They'd be the ones to say "how do we turn this acquisition into Facebook-measurable success metrics so we can prove that we're worth all this spending? Ah, yes, mandate Facebook logins, great idea, do it."
    • whywhywhywhy 6y ago
      Think you're spot on, makes a lot of sense of this move that doesn't really make sense.
    • md5person 6y ago
      > "What I see here is a senior manager type, maybe a VP or a bit below it, who needs numbers that go dramatically up and to the right in the short term and is thinking about their own personal success." I mean, there are plenty of other ways to demonstrate value without forcing people to login with a Facebook account to use their Oculus devices. In-fact, I'm not sure what added value this requirement demonstrates in the first place? People already pay for the hardware, servicing, apps/games, and upgrades.
• Cynosaur 6y ago
  What makes me angry is that people won't learn anything from this. The next time something like this happens, people will defend it to the end and call people who warn about it "paranoid" or "cynical". Corporations are not your friends. Unless it is set in legal writing you can't take their promises at heart value. Even if they set it in legal writing it might mean nothing since they always find a way to worm around it. Their ultimate goal is to fuck you over. Their pricing and profit margin are "take as much as possible without them complaining". Games will get more expensive and it has nothing to do with development costs, it has everything to do "because they can so why wouldn't they". Corporations are not idiots and they know how to do something subversively and over a long period of time so people don't notice the changes. Look at how microtransactions in games became almost a norm nowadays and future generations won't even see anything wrong with it. Look at how using FOMO and other psychological tricks are actually a "good retention method" now instead of being unethical, people don't even complain against it any more, they complain if it is badly implemented and they don't get enough of it. Companies selling your data are getting less and less backlash over it with people using arguments as "oh well they know everything already, I don't care". I really hate all of this.
• coldwaraaron 6y ago
  Alright, then I’ll be selling this Rift S and getting an Index after all. Fuck Facebook.
• carabiner 6y ago
  @dang, fix typo in headline? Faceboook.
  • dang 6y ago
    Whoa, how'd we miss that? Fixed noow.
• pratio 6y ago
  Sometimes I wish Facebook should at-least try to prove us wrong. These are trying times with everyone being paranoid about how their data is mishandled, shared, used and for good reason. What is so difficult in giving users the option to connect their Facebook accounts if they wish because lets be honest so users might just want to but making it mandatory is only going to hurt the gaming community.
• ravroid 6y ago
  Saw that coming. As a user of the original Oculus Rift headset, I will definitely be upgrading to a non-Oculus headset within the next 2 years (before Facebook accounts become mandatory).
• romille 6y ago
  Software is soft
• mark_l_watson 6y ago
  I have a different opinion than most comments here. I love the Oculus Quest. I don’t suggest that anyone waste their time in FB, but needing a FB account to buy VR experiences for the Quest us all right with me. Off topic, but my favorites are the Star Wars Vader Immortal Trilogy, Racket Ball, and Ping Pong.
• pugworthy 6y ago
  Some shade from HP's Joanna Popper on r/HPReverb... "The HP Reverb G2 does not require a Facebook account today or in 2023." https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/ic93cn/for_anyone_just_joining_the_conversation/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/ic93cn/for_anyone...
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• antihero 6y ago
  Amazing, so if you get banned from Facebook due to one of their dumb rules or algorithms, I'm assuming you can sue them for the value of the device they've just taken from you?
• 2fast4you 6y ago
  As soon as I needed a Facebook account to use the social features, I bailed. Thankfully I was fortunate enough to buy a Valve Index. SteamVR is a much nicer platform anyways
• ylee 6y ago
  I would appreciate suggestions on how to regain my Facebook account, shut down without explanation a year ago. Despite its age (15 years) I barely used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did regularly log into it. I have repeatedly tried to verify my identity by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any response. I don't want to create a fake Facebook account. I want my own back.
• dilly_bar 6y ago
  Zero chance I'd buy an Oculus now.
• detaro 6y ago
  Not going to repeat the general criticism covered in other comments, but how is that going to work with professional users? Using employees private Facebook accounts in a work setting is somewhere between a really bad idea and impossible.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• dathinab 6y ago
  Hy if someone from Oculus reads this requiring a Facebook (or Google) account for login means I will never buy your products. I also now many other people who think the same. Goodby, I'm happy I hadn't yet time to but an Oculus product.
• hardsoftnfloppy 6y ago
  Lol fuck this shit I’m out
• yalogin 6y ago
  Ha this is inevitable. Facebook would not leave the device alone obviously. Oculus opens ups brand new data set and user base to sell ads. Not just that facebook has done something that google couldn't do, they created another successful product beyond their cash cow.
• ccvannorman 6y ago
  Any news on jailbreaking Oculus devices so that I don't have to play this silly game with hardware I own?
• tiagobraw 6y ago
  yeap, there goes my changes of having an Oculus (never had a facebook account and won't)... Guess one less option then...
• 0xBeefFed 6y ago
  I guess now is the time to look into how to root the console and install a custom ROM in a similar fashion to de-Googling your android phone. There is already enough support in the community for side-loading APKs and the like. Does anyone know of any ways to achieve this?
• ohyes 6y ago
  Quelle surprise, a big tech company making a big tech company move to drive users into their embattled flagship. I take this as a negative indicator of how things are going for Facebook. I don’t see any synergy with oculus other than that both products have users. Maybe that is enough from a business standpoint, but I feel forcing login to Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption, it isn’t like 6 years ago, there are viable alternatives if you want a VR rig. It just looks and feels desperate to me.
  • Lycake 6y ago
    > I feel forcing login to Facebook is going to kill oculus adoption I'm hoping you are right, but I feel like the average consumer is not so privacy aware and wouldn't mind using Facebook as their login. It's probably even more convenient since they already have a Facebook account and don't need to create an additional account for Oculus.
• Carmack77 6y ago
  Andrew Reisse is rolling in his grave right now. This is disgusting and not what he wanted and disrespectful to everything he worked toward. I am ashamed of Oculus.
• donohoe 6y ago
  TLDR; Facebook to Oculus Users: Go f* yourself.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• jiofih 6y ago
  Good thing the Reverb G2 is right around the corner!
• UMetaGOMS 6y ago
  I very nearly bought an Oculus Quest recently due to some glowing reviews, despite my strong anti-FB feelings. So very glad I hesitated.
• zmmmmm 6y ago
  This is very saddening. The fact that Facebook had not made this move actually had a significant impact on me in assessing their overall "evil" factor for other services. Now that they have, I'm left owning a Quest and looking for another platform to move to over the next few years. I hope the competition steps up because the Quest has really nailed everything important about VR.
• joshspankit 6y ago
  Facebook is dangerously close to collapsing the whole VR industry with this.
• eggy 6y ago
  Glad I bought my HTC Vive Cosmos. I was going to wait for the Oculus to be back in stock, but I didn't. I gave up FB 6 years ago.
• mazatta 6y ago
  I knew this was coming eventually, but I am definitely selling my Rift after this announcement.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• troydavis 6y ago
  This seems to mean that Facebook's account review/policy process and lack of customer service - basically, that you're the product - now decides who can use Oculus. A week ago, I tried to sign up for Facebook in order to buy some ads[1]. With nothing remarkable about the account or metadata[2], the first page I saw after the signup form was > Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account, or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards. That page was shown immediately after the signup form. I jumped through their hoops of providing an SMS-able phone number, then a photo, and a few days later got this final result: > Your Account Has Been Disabled. You can't use Facebook because your account, or activity on it, didn't follow our Community Standards. We have already reviewed this decision and it can't be reversed." Again, there's no activity on the account because I never saw any FB pages, let alone used it. I'm not concerned - I cancelled my personal account back in 2013 and never looked back, and other than wanting to buy some public-service ads, I still have no interest in it. I sure would care if I had an Oculus, though. [1]: Because Twitter prohibits or applies extra terms to many types of issue/advocacy ads, and while I applaud their approach, those of us running public-service campaigns get stuck in unpredictable policy enforcement. [2]: Signing up from a residential Comcast US IP that I'm the only user/client on, using an email address at a domain I own, am the only user on, has been registered for 10+ years, etc.
  • acp2020 6y ago
    I had the same experience yesterday. Tried to setup a personal account to access a group and next time I logged in I got the same message about not following their "Community Standards". How is that possible? I didn't even do anything yet! Continued for them to review the ban but I had to stop on the very first step where they asked my phone number since I'll never give them such an information. Now the whole shit is stuck and I cannot even remove my account without giving them my number. Isn't this just a phishing scam? This should be illegal.
• stuartd 6y ago
  Please excuse my lame pun: > foc-u-lus
• a_zaydak 6y ago
  This will probably be when I stop using my Oculus. When I first got my Rift I was super excited about the technology and it generally did not disappoint! I have never been much of a gamer but love the idea of VR. I, however, deleted my facebook account back in 2012 when I realized that it did not contribute anything to my life. Over the years I have had to make the decision between not being able to use a product or creating a facebook account just to use them. Most of those products were mobile apps that required facebook logins. I have always chosen to not use the products and will do so again.
• troydavis 6y ago
  Anyone care to guess how long before this happens to Instagram and/or Whatsapp accounts? Could be a year or could be 5 years -- it's not if, just when.
• barnabee 6y ago
  Cool, this makes choosing my next VR headset upgrade easier: not Oculus.
• broknbottle 6y ago
  Welp I won’t be buying any future Oculus devices. I’ve got a Rift and enjoy it but I have no intentions of creating a Facebook account. I deleted mine back in like 2010-2011 and haven’t looked back.
• laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
  Honest question: you bought a device that depends on an "app store" to work. What exactly did you expect? -- from someone waiting for VR to become a commodity hardware, like a monitor.
• fomine3 6y ago
  It's completely expected since acquisition but FUCK. The problem is that there's little competitor for standalone VR and platform's openess.
• 3pt14159 6y ago
  If you want to make promises to a community about what will happen to your company after its acquired, tie them to a contract. "If you make Facebook login required for Oculus within the next 20 years you owe me personally an additional $10B." Then you can tell everyone about the line item in the contract and vow to donate half of it to the EFF or rescue.org or whatever floats your boat. Don't make promises your ass can't cash.
• CarbyAu 6y ago
  Kid who didn't know better changes mind when new information is realised. Not worth vilifying. Not worth accolades for basic rational thought. Palmer is meh. As other comments have pointed out, don't waste energy on the scapegoat. Complain about the people in control - Facebook.
• superkuh 6y ago
  I'm shocked that anyone is surprised by this. It was immediately obvious that this move was the only reason for Facebook to buy Oculus in 2014. If you fell for promises, well, hopefully this has been a learning experience.
• StillBored 6y ago
  Yah, guess i'm going to be selling my rift, or at least re-purposing it. Not that it matters much, i'm already unsupported as I refused to upgrade to win10 on the machine it was attached to. PS, oculus has been the only piece of hardware I've purchased in the past few years where the drivers caused a blue screen. Thats ignoring all the other bullshit problems with the driver stack they have that can't even consistently enable a pile of USB devices.
• Razengan 6y ago
  Why? Even Apple doesn't require an Apple ID to use their devices.
• ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  I'm actually surprised this wasn't a requirement before now. I'd always assumed that Oculus was really just a new way to "onboard users."
  • techer 6y ago
    Required for arena before - I would not buy one if this was mandatory to turn it on.
• arbirk 6y ago
  Damn. Best alternative to the Rift S?
• fizzled 6y ago
  This is my biggest fear: no longer being able to create individual accounts that are not Oauth'd through social media. I don't think my bank will require facebook any time soon, but I hope laws are in place to prevent it when the time comes. Sen. Wyden, I hope you're listening.
  • jojobas 6y ago
    Why do you even need an account? It's a display after all, I don't need an account to use my external monitor, keyboard or anything else.
    • pornel 6y ago
      Oculus has an app store, and Quest is a standalone device (mobile phone hardware on your face). It's understandable to need an account for these things, but of course this being an FB account is creepy.
      • Lycake 6y ago
        I can understand the store aspect (even though in a perfect world you could buy apps and games without DRM and having to log in), but why would you need an account because something is a standalone device? What's the difference if there is a cable attached?
        • pornel 6y ago
          Quest is not a screen. It's a computer with a built-in screen. iMac for your face. Quest with a link cable is still not a screen, but a computer running a kind of "remote desktop" software. The computer part needs an account. Virtually all software for it is paid, and it is genuinely helpful for non-technical users to have a "cloud" account that ensures they won't lose their games even if they sell or break the device.
          • jojobas 6y ago
            If IBM was able to pull this off with their PC/AT/PS/2 family, we'd still be in stone age. Anybody with more than 2 brain cells should demand open standard hardware to be used with software of choice.
• tacotacotaco 6y ago
  This is effectively ransomware. If you do not agree with the new eula Facebook will deactivate your otherwise working hardware.
• techer 6y ago
  I have been recommending the Quest but that’s all over.
• Animats 6y ago
  I was expecting Facebook to sell off their VR operations, since they're not scaling up much. Zuckerberg says he's not interested in any business with less than a billion users. Facebook Spaces was a bust. Facebook Horizon didn't even launch. John Carmack went off to work on AI. If anything, Facebook's VR effort is just there in case someone else comes up with a VR or AR threat to Facebook.
  • baby 6y ago
    Who says horizon won’t get released? Also Carmack is one person. You’re judging a product due to one person leaving?
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
• IAmGraydon 6y ago
  I was looking forward to purchasing the next generation of Oculus gear. Oh well.
• joenathanone 6y ago
  I am going to sell my Rift and buy a Vive, HTC from here out!
• Mandatum 6y ago
  If you're in Australia: Refund your Oculus. If you aren't able to use the product without agreeing to new terms, conditions of licensing agreements - you are within your rights to return your product. Sorry to those who already invested in developing for this platform. Amazon is the main supplier, and they're usually very good for returns.
• dannykwells 6y ago
  Everyone, I think it's time that we acknowledge that Facebook may have a slight tendency to deceptively invade users privacy and never ever keep any promise it makes. Nothing to worry about but just ya know, good to be aware of. /s
• asiachick 6y ago
  This is a been a problem with Rift from the start. Of course it's 100x worse to require an FB account but regardless, a record is kept of everything you do with the device. VR-Chat 2 hrs day? Virt-A-Mate every night? Using that video app from pornhub? All recorded and sent to facebook.
• butterisgood 6y ago
  And? Did you think Facebook bought them cuz they thought VR was cool.
• dschuetz 6y ago
  Was there any doubt that this would happen? I mean, it's always the same game: naïve developers with an outstanding product, huge company willing to buy-out technology while lying through their teeth making promises. It's Edison scams Nikola Tesla all over again. I'm baffled that technology pioneers and makers make the same naïve mistakes again and again for over 2 centuries now. I'm sorry for the following statement. Deal with it. You want shiny new products and technology. You develop new magical technology. You write insightful and groundbreaking scientific papers. Why are you dependent on investors, publishers and giant tech-firms? They exist because of you, because you need them. And they know that. So, please, rid yourself of the illusion that your product/paper can only survive if you give it away to someone with power and influence. You give away power, for money, that's why Facebook, Apple, Google got so powerful in the first place. It's your fault. Deal with it, you can do better than that.
• jerianasmith01 6y ago
  Nice information
• hans_castorp 6y ago
  I wonder if this is even legal in the EU, given the GDPR laws that prohibit sending customer data to the USA.
• shmerl 6y ago
  Hardware tied to some account is ridiculous. Good thing there are projects like OpenHMD and Monado, that aim to implement open runtime for VR and AR devices. * http://www.openhmd.net/index.php/devices/ http://www.openhmd.net/index.php/devices/ * https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/lighthouse-positional-tracking-in-monado-with-libsurvive.html https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/ligh...
• monadic2 6y ago
  Is this a surprise to literally anyone? If you buy into a corporate platform you get a corporate platform.
• leafboi 6y ago
  Make fake facebook account. All problems solved.
• perlgeek 6y ago
  The notion that you need a cloud login for a piece of computer periphery to work is just unacceptable to me. "Want to print a page on your locally, USB-Connected printer? Log in at hp.com".
• numlock86 6y ago
  I just bought an Oculus Quest and now feel bad about it. Sadly there are no real alternatives.
• craftoman 6y ago
  Last time I created a fresh account I got banned. Didn't use any VPN, my email was a fresh Gmail address and I didn't use any fake picture or send any friend request.
• benecollyridam 6y ago
  I don't know if I think it will work, but it is at least worth it to vote here to remove the FB login: https://oculus.uservoice.com/forums/921937-oculus-quest/suggestions/39317167-remove-mandatory-facebook-login https://oculus.uservoice.com/forums/921937-oculus-quest/sugg...
  • ninkendo 6y ago
    I don't know anything about uservoice.com, but are they even affiliated with facebook in any way? Why would facebook even care what happens on that site?
    • daveoc64 6y ago
      UserVoice is basically just a platform that companies (like Oculus) can use to manage customer requests. If Oculus didn't want UserVoice, they wouldn't have signed up for it.
• Nginx487 6y ago
  Fun fact: most of the people need neither Facebook nor Oculus.
  • fsflover 6y ago
    Also, most of the people do not need freedom of speech directly, but rely on it without knowing. Similar story here. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...
    • Nginx487 6y ago
      Sure we need. That's why boycotting products of the violator, nevermind Facebook or China, is one of the easiest and efficient forms of protesting and opposing violations.
• Rounin 6y ago
  Call me old-fashioned, but does anyone else find it a bit strange that one needs to log in in order to use a display device? That Oculus had better have some pretty special pixels, if they need a network connection to even be visible.
  • marcan_42 6y ago
    This is largely about the Oculus Quest, which is a self contained device (i.e. a smartphone in a VR headset) I'm assume their tethered display devices will still work without an account, assuming you don't want to use their store/apps.
    • Rounin 6y ago
      Your assumption would certainly be a reasonable one, though in today's world, who knows? Many mobile phones, for instance, now try to introduce additional "terms and conditions" before they're willing to work. Who wants to buy a whole Oculus in order to find out whether it feels like working or not?
    • gfxgirl 6y ago
      Why would you assume that? The Oculus system software requires you to login. Without it running no apps run, even 3rd party apps.
• sharpneli 6y ago
  The FAQ had nothing about developing for the device. Facebook TOS prohibits making multiple personal accounts. So one might assume company one works for then provides a company account as using the civilian account is not really a good thing. If they mandate using the real civilian one then it’s maybe a good reason to finally ”close” it by removing all friends and photos. It’s just a dev account for oculus then.
• PostThisTooFast 6y ago
  That's like requiring an AOL account. Talk about fucking clueless.
• zmmmmm 6y ago
  A lot of justified outrage here but I would make a separate point: I think Facebook has made a terrible decision here in terms of their platform play. They legitimately had a chance here to own the future of not just consumer but business computing. The apps now coming on the scene for virtual workspaces still have limitations but it is utterly clear to me that this will become a major mode of work and collaboration in the business world at some point in the future. But requiring facebook logins just threw a huge hurdle in front of that. There is no way I am going to suggest our workplace purchase these and then have everybody logging in with personal facebook accounts. And I can't imagine workplaces mandating people have or use facebook accounts. I guess we will wait to see what Apple and Microsoft now do in the space since Facebook and Google both seem to have (inexplicably) bowed out of the race.
  • jobigoud 6y ago
    It's also a terrible decision for the other uses of VR, escapism, porn, games… For escapism, you don't want to be constantly reminded of the real world. For the other uses you don't want your real life friends and family to know how much time you spend on that…
• knolax 6y ago
  A little misleading since apparently the Facebook account is only acting as a replacement for an Oculus account. It's not like they're forcing Facebook logins on a device that required no logins.
• ihadtosayit 6y ago
  I knew it! Anyone who didn't see this comming needs to stop posting and commenting online.
• leshenka 6y ago
  That's wonderful. I tried to create an account on FB last week. I don't know why, but it got suspended immediately. Tried again with different info - suspended. I didn't even wanted a FB account in the first place, but now I wonder why I can't do that
• jokoon 6y ago
  I still have a hard time understanding what kind of value can be extracted from user data. Who uses this data? For what purpose? How can this data give an edge to make money elsewhere? Is there a real relationship between data collection and ability to sell more things and increase profits? I'm not seeing it.
• throwaway287391 6y ago
  I haven't used FB in a while, but are there any real barriers stopping people from making fake/alt FB accounts for this purpose? If not, that seems like a pretty easy way to just not care about any of this to me. (Or was there a theory that FB wasn't already logging everything you did on an Oculus before they started making logins mandatory?)
• jansan 6y ago
  This was not required before? When I got my Oculus Quest a at the end of June I found no other way to log in but create a facebook account. This account is now only used for the Oculus Quest.
• zajio1am 6y ago
  What this even mean? Oculus device is a hardware, has some drivers, supporting software, and applications. What exactly requires user to login in order to work? Drivers?
• ulzeraj 6y ago
  What do they mean by this? > Using a VR profile that is backed by a Facebook account and authentic identity helps us protect our community and makes it possible to offer additional integrity tools. For example, instead of having a separate Oculus Code of Conduct, we will adopt Facebook’s Community Standards as well as a new additional VR-focused policy. This will allow us to continue to take the unique considerations of VR into account while offering a more consistent way to report bad behavior, hold people accountable, and help create a more welcoming environment across our platforms. And as Facebook adds new privacy and safety tools, Oculus can adopt and benefit from them too. Isn't oculus just some kind of display device? Last time I've checked LG and Samsung doesn't really policy what kind of content I'm using their monitors for.
  • sigwinch28 6y ago
    They're trying to retcon something that sounds ever-so-slightly reasonable into a slimy business decision.
• bookofjoe 6y ago
  We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Palmer Luckey hadn't persevered and created the Oculus.
• gd2 6y ago
  Don't like
• ninkendo 6y ago
  Why do I need to "Log in" to a VR headset? The tech industry has gotten rather silly.
• tracker1 6y ago
  I know this is a little off... but what would happen if say Alex Jones bought an Oculus device? I mean, they've banned a number of people from the platform.. and if the devices won't work without it, would that be breach of contract/sale?
• AltruisticGap2 6y ago
  It's good to know before the updated Oculus Quest comes out. Personally it doesn't bother me immensely... however it's annoying that I'd have to review, check and double check all the privacy settings before using the device as I don't expect any of the defaults to keep my activity private. I'll probably opt for using my Oculus account another 2 years, at which point I'll likely have bought another headset.
• xadhominemx 6y ago
  Who cares?
• neycoda 6y ago
  Sounds like Facebook doesn't know how to make money with Oculus unless they require people to log into Facebook to use it.
• danboarder 6y ago
  I see a VR headset is primarily a piece of hardware. Think of it as a next-gen computer monitor. Users like me expect it to work with any computer or ecosystem (Steam, Windows, Mac, Linux, etc). Thus the outrage..
• libraryatnight 6y ago
  I was waffling between VR setups, looks like I can take Oculus off the list.
• makecheck 6y ago
  I’m not sure how we’ve learned to accept “I am altering the deal” from tech companies just because they have the ability to change things remotely. I mean, what if a furniture company just decided to break into your house, reupholster your couch and remove some of the pillows? (Or I suppose, install a recording device on the bottom?)
• realistcake 6y ago
  I don't see what the fuss is about. Why shouldn't Facebook try to provide the best user experience possible? We live in an increasingly connected world, so this tight integration between different products is absolutely critical to a positive user experience. Would people complain if any other company added Facebook login to their product? No!
• makach 6y ago
  Wait.. Some games are rated 7 years, my kid is old enough to play the games and currently has his own account but he is not allowed to be on Facebook. How will this work? Next VR headset will not be Oculus.
  • daveoc64 6y ago
    Most of the major VR headset companies (Oculus, HTC, Sony) do not advise that children under 13 use VR. You have to be 13 to sign up for a Facebook account - although I'm not sure if you meant "not allowed" in the sense that you won't let him sign up for an account. A game's age rating only covers the suitability of the content in the game in terms of things like violence, strong language etc. It does not imply that the game is aimed at or would be enjoyed by a particular age range. There is no special consideration for VR in terms of age ratings.
• lbj 6y ago
  Guess I have 2 years until my Rift goes in the bin. Hopefully there'll be something even nicer out by then.
• phendrenad2 6y ago
  As companies grow, they lose touch with smaller market segments. I see that Facebook has grown to the point that it has lost touch with it's ENTIRE oculus market. (Who buys Oculus? Cutting-edge techheads, who often don't like social media). I expect that Oculus will die a slow death unless some exec sees some important metric going down and tries to save it. But Facebook is huge, so saving Oculus is unlikely to make a dent in financials.