22 ms·

My second year without a job

• dyauspitr 2y ago
  I was unemployed for a year at a point and honestly it was the best year of my life in a long time. Yes I went through about $50K but I was able to pursue hobbies, play sports, weightlift, hike, travel, write, play music, spend a lot of time with my wife and daughter and I built an entire second home on my property (all by myself)! That’s honestly how life is meant to be lived but it’s too bad we’re not at UBI levels in society yet.
  • dingnuts 2y ago
    Yes, that sounds very nice and you are very privileged and lucky. Leisure is definitely a lot nicer than work, but there's a lot of work someone has to do. You can choose to pay people to work, or not, but if you pay people to not work you have to figure out some other incentive for workers or the necessary work won't get done at all. I do prefer living in industrialized society to subsistence farming and slavery, personally, so maybe let's try to keep the incentives in place and NOT copy the Soviets, yeah? And implying that there's a way we're "meant" to live implies we were created by a conscious being with intent, and I think you'll find that's a controversial view
    • dinkumthinkum 2y ago
      A controversial view is a view that has been held by a majority of humans that have lived in the last few thousand years? Ok, I guess that checks out.
    • dyauspitr 2y ago
      I get it, to have a functioning society we need people to work. There is some paradigm in the future where a lot of the labor can be automated, we’re just not there yet.
  • kbutler 2y ago
    I appreciate that you used that time to build that second home. Any estimate on the value creation from building that home vs the $50k consumed?
    • dyauspitr 2y ago
      It’s a full fledged home with 2 bedrooms. I spent ~$75k on materials (outside of the $50k I spent on living expenses). It probably added atleast $100k of value if not more.
      • kbutler 2y ago
        Sounds like time well-spent (with all the other activities as well).
        • dyauspitr 2y ago
          Thank you, I appreciate it. I thought so too.
  • billy99k 2y ago
    "That’s honestly how life is meant to be lived but it’s too bad we’re not at UBI levels in society yet" This sounds great. My question is why should I have to work and pay for you to do what you want all day?
    • dyauspitr 2y ago
      With UBI you would receive it too. I presume the person that pays the cost is large industrialists with automated factories with billions in profits.
• overcast 2y ago
  Welcome to the club!
  • Findecanor 2y ago
    Two years is nothing ... Gold membership card holder here.
• processing 2y ago
  Exact same situation - 2 years deep here but at a breaking point cannot continue this trajectory.
  • to-too-two 2y ago
    I'm depressed studying computer science. Been thinking about quitting seeing how people with years of experience can't even find work.
    • unsupp0rted 2y ago
      What’s a better alternative?
    • shreddit 2y ago
      “Can’t find work” can have different meanings for different people. Maybe they just haven’t found a job with the pay grade they want.
    • processing 2y ago
      if you love computer science don't quit - I'd definitely triple down on real world projects/output rather than just studying though. I intentionally left to work on projects I wanted to pursue, built a startup that isn't currently covering costs (1 customer on an annual plan), lived in Thailand for 6 months (with kids going to to school there), the burn rate on return has taken it's toll (California)...but yeah recently put feelers out for potential work and see it's going to be quite the mission to find work (personally).
      • niij 2y ago
        Didn't see an email in profile, so I'll ask here. What was your experience with schooling in Thailand? Public or international school?
    • coldpie 2y ago
      There's jobs out there. My company has turnover, which means people are going somewhere, and we're hiring, too. Make Connections!! Any kind of foot in the door is leagues better than cold-applying.
• skwee357 2y ago
  I had a period of 6 months when I was unemployed burning through my savings. It was one of the best times of my life. Like the author, I focused a lot of entrepreneurship, my mental and physical health, and traveled a lot. But unlike the author, I came back to the workforce. I don’t know what’s the end game for the author, but I kind of feel torn here. On one side, I’d say that it’s way easier to focus on building a business when you don’t have a job. On the other side, not having money to live on would stress me so much that I’m not sure I’d be able to do sport or engage in hobbies, let alone build a business.
  • true_pk 2y ago
    Hi! Author here. You are very much on point. I only recently started looking for part-time jobs, and perhaps I should have mentioned it in the post. It's precisely what you said -- financial stress started impacting my hobbies and sports, and that's where I don't feel as comfortable anymore.
    • skwee357 2y ago
      Wishing you the best! I think if you will be able to find a part time job that will cover your lifestyle financially, while dedicating the other half to entrepreneurship and hobbies/sport, it’s the best
    • chr15m 2y ago
      Good luck man, glad you had a great two years, thanks for sharing! Also, keep operating costs super cheap so you can keep the side hustle going and watch it grow over years. Don't shut it down unless you have to. To make $600/m you would have to invest $180k at 5%, so from that perspective you have created something valuable already.
  • black_13 2y ago
    [dead]
  • chasd00 2y ago
    > unemployed burning through my savings. did that include retirement savings? Are you behind or on track for when you're inevitably too old to work?
• itake 2y ago
  I've taken a similar path: I probably will continue bouncing back and forth for the rest of my career.
• declan_roberts 2y ago
  If anyone else finds themself in this position, I highly recommend you sell what you can, pack the rest up into a storage unit, and travel, 4 or 6 months in each location. $80k can easily last you 4+ years of very comfortable living in much of the world. Enjoy the food, really try and learn some of the local language, and enjoy yourself. You can do it, and there won't be another window.
  • skwee357 2y ago
    Not only you suddenly will get the entire week for yourself, to do whatever you want, and you will be able to travel, but the other benefit is reviewing your relationship with material possessions. I did that (sold everything, and went traveling), and now I own very little stuff. Apart from the mandatory laptop I need for work, and clothes, I couldn’t care less about everything else. Before selling everything, I had a sick setup of dual monitors, and external DAC, speakers, headphones, keyboards, etc. Today, I need only laptop. I was considering getting one monitor, but can’t seem to justify the need. It really teaches you how little material crap you need.
    • deadbabe 2y ago
      You listed a bunch of crap most people wouldn’t buy anyways. The bulk of what people own are things like furniture, artworks, plants, appliances, cookware… etc. Not particularly sexy, but essential for making a cozy place to live in the world.
      • skwee357 2y ago
        What I failed to mention is not only about the stuff you own, but in general your relationship with material possessions. Before selling everything, I’d constantly worry about whether I should get a third monitor, maybe try a curved one, get a new keyboard, upgrade the TV, get a new kitchen appliance, replace the sofa, etc. There’s always “newer and better” for everything. Nowadays, I don’t care anymore. I bought a TV because we like watching movies, but I don’t care about the technology or the next shiny thing. Same with my computer, I work on a 14” laptop for the past two years, and I no longer feel like I should chase a better or newer setup.
• insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I recommend this to anyone who has not yet had kids (unless you don't plan to). It's the only opportunity you'll get (well until your kids are finished college)
• zb3 2y ago
  Amateur... It's the 7th year of NEET for me :)
• system2 2y ago
  Is it better to be unemployed rather than to find a crappy job that pays the bills? (AKA sucking it up while paying bills and looking for a real career job.) I was in a similar situation and I worked at a warehouse as a loader, then at a kiosk to sell toys, and then sold necklaces at a mall (none of them were my businesses, just worked.) And I worked as a mover. Many odd jobs but I never accepted being unemployed for 2 years while depleting my savings. Whether it is a matter of being homeless or not, I can find 1000+ odd jobs that pay for something + food from Craigslist right now. This is the reason why you will rarely see an immigrant being homeless or being picky about the jobs they find. Staying unemployed for years until finding the "best job" is a very privileged mindset. 3 months in no job? Find something to float, don't wait until your dream job appears out of nowhere. I survived with $1000 a month for a very long time (in America, the money I earned from my jobs) while paying for a room, eating + transportation. If I had 80k, I'd buy a cheap van, live in it for free, and eat the bare minimum nutrition I need ($150 a month). I can survive with 80 for over a decade easily. God knows what this person is doing with his money. I am certain he has parents that he can count on. These posts are extremely bizarre. Now, downvote me to hell.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    it depends, you still need time and energy to apply for jobs, keep your skills sharp, etc. not every job allows you to do that. and in some countries doing jobs like that looks worse on your resume than a gap.
    • system2 2y ago
      None of the resumes are real anyway. You can type garbage online projects to close the gaps. After work, you can still go home and study for 3-5 hours per day. That's what I did and I know it is possible. Whatever you do though, it is better than wasting time with friends and going out for adventures for 2 years while wasting your money and time.
      • hotpocket777 2y ago
        I don’t know if I follow. So starving yourself alone in a van is a better use of time and money than going on adventures with friends? To what end?
• UncleOxidant 2y ago
  December 2022 was not a great time to quit a tech job. I too have been unemployed during the same period (except for a 3 month part-time gig last summer) after the startup I was working for lost it's funding in December '22. Fortunately, I've got a paid-off house and a good amount of savings (plus I'm old enough to start withdrawing from my retirement accounts and since our income is pretty low the ACA subsidies are working out great for being able to afford health insurance. At this point I consider myself semi-retired as I'm not interested in playing the tech interviewing game anymore, but if someone comes to me and wants me to work on an interesting project then I'll give it serious consideration (as was the case last summer).
• ryandrake 2y ago
  Whenever I read articles like this and the ensuing "just relax and go have fun/travel" comment chains, I think to myself I'm living in an alien universe. Not having a job is a pants-on-fire emergency, and I would be interviewing 24/7 until I corrected it, even if the hiring market meant that was hopeless. I'd be a nervous wreck until I found a job, any job. It's absolutely wild to see people 1. with the privilege of having $80K in liquid savings to just... chill while unemployed, and 2. with the willingness and mindset that allows them to do that chilling without freaking out. Total Zen Masters you all are. I couldn't do it. Every $10K I blew through while unemployed, I'd be thinking to myself: Accounting for time value of money, that's just pushed out my retirement date by 3 more months. EDIT: I guess I should add that I'm married with a kid, since that obviously does affect the math on this one. Still, I don't think I'd change my opinion if I was single.
  • cryptozeus 2y ago
    100% agree with this. Whoever said take a break and go traveling either have money saved up or have no idea what they are doing. Take a break from what ? Most of these people have not even worked for 5 years.
    • grepfru_it 2y ago
      Burnout happens before you even realize it. By prioritizing regular breaks, you can avoid burnout altogether
      • cryptozeus 2y ago
        No time for burnout, he has no money in the account. I would start driving uber then join climbing clubs
        • FactKnower69 2y ago
          [flagged]
          • 2y ago
• cryptozeus 2y ago
  Wow 80k in 2 years is not that much. I am in my 3rd year in bay area. Luckily I had invested and have zero debt so able to survive. Honestly op may not want to hear this but “music, sports” and this line “Once a week, we play board games, cook food, or do coworking sessions. Living with others is not always easy, but it is fun.“ does not tell me you have any focus on getting job. You need to be too busy to even worry about food. What is all this ? You joined a climbing club ? How do you have time ?
• huqedato 2y ago
  A very valuable lesson for me. So, I'll venture into entrepreneurship once I’ve saved a million dollars in cash—though, realistically, that might never happen.
• cahoot_bird 2y ago
  Problem is lack of money catches up eventually. If you can't figure out some way to get it, and the longer without a job, the harder it is to get one. I think a lot of people struggled because the economy and job numbers. Supply and demand.. I had contract work, then couldn't get a tech job a couple years ago after a lot of applications. Completely broke. Drove down the road and felt kinda foolish seeing people paying less but decent money for non-tech. got fast food / hospitality worker. Low stress, physical work. Can't imagine where I'd be if I didn't. I kind of get it though, you start doing something else then you don't have much time and energy to improve on what you want to do (such as tech) for a while, a recipe for people to get trapped, unless you can save money and reclaim time somehow to improve, or the supply/demand shifts.. anyone could fail at anything, all I know for certain is the worst thing a person can do is nothing.
  • insane_dreamer 2y ago
    One solution, if you can, is to take part-time work. Then you can reduce your expenses to that level, take time off for living, without having to spend down your savings (or only very very slowly). Then it's sustainable.
• kelvinjps10 2y ago
  I wonder how much it would last in a 3rd word country, I live in Colombia with 800$ quite comfortably.
• spondylosaurus 2y ago
  OP, idk if you'll see this, but the part about GI issues after being on Accutane concerned me a bit. There's some evidence that Accutane can cause short-term symptoms that mimic autoimmune disorders and long-term symptoms that are bona fide autoimmune disorders. If you only feel "normal" while sticking to a restrictive diet, especially in the absence of confirmed celiac disease (which would otherwise explain issues with gluten), you might be suffering from a more serious problem without realizing it. Signed, someone who only feels "normal" while sticking to a restrictive diet... and therefore is seeing their gastro next week to discuss switching to a different Crohn's treatment :P
  • svnt 2y ago
    A similar but underreported possibility here is gastric ulcers which correlate extremely well with cortisol/stress. You can attempt to fix it by taking NAC which is an amino acid with no side effects for $20 a month or so. Usually you don’t need to take it continuously, just in regressions. It is frequently misdiagnosed as the other more serious/intractable things you’ve mentioned.
    • spondylosaurus 2y ago
      Oh yeah, I forgot about ulcers. Non-ulcerative gastritis is on the table too, which can mimic some of the same symptoms and is absolutely triggered by stress. And both ulcers and gastritis can be a smaller part of a bigger serious issue! Which is all to say... there are so many ways your gut can make you miserable, and they rarely get better on their own. Absolutely worth checking out if you can.
  • kaiwenwang 2y ago
    Isotretinoin is poison, here's my article about it: https://www.kaiwenwang.me/writing/effects-and-detoxification-from-isotretinoin https://www.kaiwenwang.me/writing/effects-and-detoxification... In some parts of the internet, Vitamin A is theorized to not be a vitamin but a poison. Auto-immunity is likely related to biofilms in the intestines and plant defense chemicals such as lectins in combination with leaky gut. Try looking @ cabbage juice for your Crohn's. There are YT videos about it.
• mancerayder 2y ago
  The problem in the US is healthcare. In my state the health insurance marketplace only has 'bronze' plans that are in-network only (with mediocre options) and high deductibles, it costs 6-800 for individual and close to 1500-2k for a family. The United States has rigged the employment market to forever keep you dependent on a corporate employer until retirement. Now these same companies are taking away remote work, forcing people close to expensive and increasingly annoying cities like New York City, where the median one bedroom is one million to buy. So, for giving your time to a company, your reward is never being able to be fully independent without huge risk. Healthcare is the Company Store Voucher of the modern era. Has anyone else considered leaving the United States long before retirement age?
  • adastra22 2y ago
    ACA plans would be free / fully subsidized in that circumstance.
    • anotheracc88 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • DiscourseFan 2y ago
        They are not going to gut the ACA, that would not only be extremely unpopular but also impossible in the current congress with only a 2 seat majority in the house for the Republicans.
        • EasyMark 2y ago
          They have to get it past the filibuster. Dems will not back down from that one, a lot of people don’t seem to realize what a slim margin the MAGAs have in Congress, it won’t take much to topple it. And their “Mandate” is more like a “Meh-ndate”
  • maximinus_thrax 2y ago
    > Has anyone else considered leaving the United States long before retirement age? Yes. I'm American but was born in a small country in Eastern Europe. I was planning on moving back during the pandemic, however I was presented with some job prospects I couldn't reject and my move was delayed. But I do plan on retiring in my hometown within two years. There is universal healthcare which sucks for the most part, but private insurance is extremely cheap (compared to the US) and I could retire more than comfortably with my current nw. And by 'retire' I don't mean stop working, I mean I'm going to work on whatever I want. And to your original point about healthcare, it is the absolute single reason for why I did not take any sabbaticals or long term leave even while burned out, for my insomnia during layoff seasons and generally for my job related stress.
• CharlieDigital 2y ago
  Over the last 4 years, I've gone through a similar "speed run" of startups after quitting my job of 10 years during COVID. First startup went nowhere and took on a contract role after 9 months. Then tried another startup with a co-founder I met at one of the startups where I worked in the interim. About 6 months building something awesome, but no commercial path. Spent 1 month with him and another co-founder on a fintech product but realized much faster that once again that there was no viable go-to-market strategy. Started another company and built a product that seemed like it had legs. We had one early user that absolutely loved the product and we thought all we needed was to find more users like her. Turns out that she was a false signal because we never found another user like her and I'm about to shut that one down after almost a year to avoid DE franchise fee next year. If anyone is in a situation like this/thinking about doing something like this, I've gathered some of my lessons learned: https://chrlschn.dev/blog/2024/12/lessons-learned-from-working-at-startups/ https://chrlschn.dev/blog/2024/12/lessons-learned-from-worki... If I had to sum it up: always build the minimal thing that can be "sold". Use AI to build the dirtiest MVP as fast as possible. Even better if your "MVP" is a deck and you can get people to put money down to wait. Figure out your GTM and messaging with that deck. If you are an engineer, you must resist that urge to build until you're sure you can find enough people that have this problem and want to pay you to solve it. Don't work with a non-technical co-founder if they claim if you build it, customers will come. Don't work with a non-technical co-founder that can't demonstrate an ability to sell. If the vibes feel off, get out fast. Don't form a company with a co-founder until you absolutely have to (like your personal life, don't get married until you're absolutely sure). Lots of mistakes and lessons learned during that time having founded startups that went nowhere, been an employee in startups that went nowhere, and left startups that are actually crushing it. I have seen a big swath of the gamut at this point with some regrets in retrospect.
  • tailspin2019 2y ago
    Given the dense amount of wisdom packed into this comment I checked out your profile. Both your current projects look extremely impressive and polished. And viable! Keep up the good work! It’s inspiring to see that in light of the obvious difficult lessons you’ve had to learn along the way. Having learned many of the same lessons as you I can 100% backup everything you said in your “sum it up” paragraph! The only caveat I would add is to the “make an MVP with AI”. I think MVPs generated directly out of ChatGPT/Claude are so easy now (or at least it can appear so on the face of it) that many people are just barely going beyond that - but to any experienced eye, that approach is quite transparent and can look very low-value (even if the idea is actually a good one). Now if that person is a skilled salesperson then that might work. But, for most people, I think it’s still very important to demonstrate good instincts, taste and strategic/commercial understanding when building such an MVP. And that means editing and shaping the output just enough to meet your vision for the product. So to agree with you - definitely, 100%, use AI as much as possible - but don’t assume that you can put zero work in on top and have that MVP be effective. Because the 10 year old down the street has the exact same tool as you - so if you are just relying verbatim on that tool’s output- it’s going to be hard to stand out. I’d still definitely agree to spend as little time as physically possible on the MVP - with the above caveat. Having said all that… a lot of historical wisdom on the topic of MVPs has been turned upside down since gen AI became mainstream, so on the flip side you could argue: create 1000 MVPs in an hour, publish them all, see what generates interest…* Hmm.. I think I just argued against my own point. * (I’m not really seriously suggesting anyone do this, but I’m also not entirely discounting this as an approach either…)
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• ipnon 2y ago
  The stark transition from employment to unemployment can be very painful in our industry, because it is a boom-bust industry, and it's not uncommon to go from making half a million dollars a year to having the most expensive cities in the world vacuuming money out of your bank account as fast as economically possible. When the money is coming in you feel like a rockstar-ninja-hacker genius. When the money dries up you start to wonder why you didn't just go into accounting.
  • anotheracc88 2y ago
    I have not been out of work since 2002 but same time... I earned nothing close to 500k or even 250k.
  • tasuki 2y ago
    If you make half a million dollars a year, it's really easy to save lots of it. I didn't make that much (but also don't live in the US). For some time I was living on about 5% of my income and saving the remaining 95%.
    • liontwist 2y ago
      > but also don't live in the US There is your answer. The cities where you can make 400-500k are at least 2x the cost of other US cities.
      • tasuki 2y ago
        I was not asking a question. Half a million dollars a year is a lot of money even in the expensive cities. If you make that much and don't save a significant part of it, you're rather lacking in foresight. Go talk to the people earning five times less who live in the same city!
        • liontwist 2y ago
          > Half a million dollars a year is a lot of money even in the expensive cities. Absolutely. But depending on your perspective it may seem like an unfathomable amount of money where you start to drive lambos and have a private chef. It's not. > If you make that much and don't save a significant part of it, you're rather lacking in foresight. Agreed. I expect them to max their tax advantaged accounts, have significant equity in their house > 1.2 M house. Maybe have a rental property. > Go talk to the people earning five times less who live in the same city 100k in SF or Manhattan? Sure that exists. But in some ways nothing lower than that exists. Anything lower is likely: - an immigrant living a similar life style as their home country, which would not be accepted by the native population. (Many tenants in one apartment, possibly not legal housing, etc). - workers who commute from a neighboring city. - Students who are poor on paper, but have a financial safety net through parents.
• hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Am I missing something about where this guy is getting money? He posted his bank account, which is essentially empty, and it seems his only current income is $600/mo, which is less than half of his rent. So how is this guy surviving currently? I don't mean to be one of those people that shout "privilege" at every turn on the Internet, but most people with no savings and barely any income would be freaking out unless they had some family or support network to lean on, which I noticed any discussion of is suspiciously absent.
  • MarcelOlsz 2y ago
    I'm in a similar boat. -$800 in my checking and about ~$1000 left on my CC. Also from Canada. Morgage payment coming up in 5 days will put me in the negative, and another one in January as well. Should not have bought a house. I'm basically screwed, but I figure the wheels of the system or whatever will move slower than me finding work.
    • m00x 2y ago
      Overspent on the house? Not uncommon in Canada tbh. The country is in a really bad state real-estate wise.
      • MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        A little bit. It was a great idea at the time when I had work. It's been listed for sale for 2 months now which is to be expected with the rate frenzy.
    • stocknoob 2y ago
      Rent out/airbnb a room in your house?
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    • Zambyte 2y ago
• StressedDev 2y ago
  This is a good example of why entrepreneurs, founders, and investors should make a lot of money. Frequently, they fail, or go for years making very little. Starting a successful business is incredibly hard and I wish shilin (the person who wrote the article) the best.
  • blharr 2y ago
    I mean, or it heavily restricts the pool of founders to mostly those who already have enough wealth such that they won't be homeless. I don't see why a safety net wouldn't mitigate this risk in the first place, which would then allow for more people to take these risks and come up with great ideas as well
• robofanatic 2y ago
  How can someone with $68 in bank so articulate.
  • selimthegrim 2y ago
    You must be fun at parties.
• motohagiography 2y ago
  Similar story for me in 2017-19 era. Ran out of money never thought I would work again, picked up a consulting contract, parlayed it into more, have since succeeded to the point of being discreet about it. I've come to believe opportunity finds us. If you can be fit and pursue arts or hobbies, you're already doing what people think they need to be wealthy to do, and most wealthy people are boring anyway. Run a CRM pipeline to get a job and you will have one in a couple of months, then use the stability as a way to find customers for your next thing. If you can't run a pipeline for yourself, you won't be able to do it for a startup anyway. You're fine. Good luck.
  • jumparoundwords 2y ago
    Highly agree with your comment, just wondering what you mean with "CRM pipeline to get a job"?
    • motohagiography 2y ago
      it's the way to get a job, i didn't think there was another way. the way a sales funnel works is you start with a pile of company names as "leads" you have or want to work for. they are in a spreadsheet that has the columns "company"," applied", "contacted", "responded" "interview1" "interviewN" "offer" "closed" "declined" sort the companies in order of preference and approach them in that order giving the ones you really want to work for a small head start over the others. you figure out how to contact each one of them and spend your days moving each one through the stages in the spreadsheet and adding to the companies column until your situation changes. that's how people who get multiple offers get them. they use this to make them happen. if you have 10-20+ companies, there's always something you can be doing to get one of them over the line. I used the streak crm as a gmail plugin, but you can just use a spreadsheet.
• anotheracc88 2y ago
  Ooh. Lesson: if you are out of work go bare bones. You don't need a entrepenerial flat in the city. You need a shitty room in the suburbs where you can commute to the city by train or bus ideally (dont have a car). Call it runway and it sounds better. If you spent 20k/y then the 60k becones 75k in the market and you are doing better.
  • sahmeepee 2y ago
    Yes, I'm not sure how helpful it is in TFA to compare living costs against average living costs in the area and then call it a win if you're anywhere below. If I was unemployed my living costs would be far, far below average, even allowing for the "it's expensive being poor" factors. Even when I've been in low pay jobs I've lived on very little and definitely didn't feel like I had budget for "travel" or other non-essentials. As an employable person without work, before I reached negative bank balance I'm pretty certain I would have found a crappy job to at least slow the decline and buy more time. I can't see from this story why that hasn't been deemed necessary here.
    • jlarocco 2y ago
      I was thinking the same thing. The average person has a job and income. What's the average for a person taking extended time off?
      • anotheracc88 2y ago
        The median would be zero or close.
• gexla 2y ago
  Nobody is jobless. You either have a job or you don't need a job. If you need a job, then finding a job is your full time job. Do your marketing. Build your offerings (skills.) Slam your offerings against the market as much as possible to get feedback. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting a job not finding one. At least in the US, there's industries hurting for skills shortages. We're also on the edge of a cliff of baby boomers retiring.
  • denysvitali 2y ago
    Getting a good job is hard - especially today. Getting a low-salary one, unrelated to your skills, is fairly easy (e.g: waiter).
  • selimthegrim 2y ago
    May I introduce you to the New Orleans metropolitan area.
• paxys 2y ago
  2 years living in a big city enjoying entrepreneurship, hacking, socializing, music, sports, climbing, triathlons – all without the shackles of a 9-5 office job – sounds like a dream. Resourceful people find ways to pay their bills, and I'm sure you will as well. Best of luck!
• Topgamer7 2y ago
  For the author, you probably have IBS. I have similar symptoms, and basically I can't eat anything with Peppers or Chilies. The whole fruiting family. So no paprika. You would be absolutely floored to find out how many things paprika is in. Basically every flavour of chip you like. Curries often have them too.
  • cowsandmilk 2y ago
    Expanding on this, OP, please see a GI doctor. These could also be signs of much worse things you want to catch early.
• graycat 2y ago
  Check it out, but ~2020 saw where in the US could BUY a nice manufactured house, with a mortgage, for ~$300/month. Land? Some small rural communities have been falling in population and are eager for new people -- sooooo, land for the house might not be too much. Be sure to have cell phone and Internet access and be not too far from a Walmart, a hospital, and, maybe, auto repair. In the US can get nice weather, usually not too hot or cold or too wet or dry, in the East at the latitude of, say, Kentucky. In Maryland, Virginia, and DC, there is lots of Federal Civil Service employment, and the hiring is not based much on "who you know" but what you can do, education, experience.
  • selimthegrim 2y ago
    Let’s see if that last bit lasts after Jan 20
• nikolay 2y ago
  The new generation thinks your job should be fun and interesting, but that's rare and a luxury. I see young coworkers leave an excellent job after months, often less than 6 months even. It used to be that I would not even interview candidates who had less than 2 years in any job on their resume - it was the industry's standard. Now it's rare to find somebody who has had 2 years in any job - this is beyond pathetic! Entrepreneurship is different than self-experimentation. If you have a killer idea, if you've done the market analysis, and the business plan - ok, great - quit your job! But to leave a decent job to play entrepreneur - that's pretty irresponsible! Stoicism is extinct!
• unethical_ban 2y ago
  I'm in network security and I want to quit so badly. I feel trapped in a job and team dynamic I don't like. I own my truck and have $275k in liquid assets. I've been thinking of quitting with the assumption that my job skills will still be relevant in two or three years and that I have strong social skills that help stand out and a crowded worker field. I just want to take care of some long-standing tasks, clean out my house, and enjoy waking up each day.
  • Schiendelman 2y ago
    I would recommend going and interviewing and changing companies. Get anyone else to hire you, it's better than zero income, and then you can figure out if it's the culture of your company bothering you.
• fafhnir 2y ago
  Here is a good example of someone who shies away from responsibility for himself and others. 2 years time for what? To build something with other people? A partner, family, children? Nope, just doing what brings him fun or fulfillment or whatnot... I'm not saying it's bad to take care of yourself from time to time. But as a father of 5, I can definitely say that the best and most instructive moments in my life were definitely the ones where it wasn't about me but about people who were important to me. And the money issue that most people seem to be talking about here: Go to work and earn money. That's life. It always has been. If people would only do what fulfills them, there would be no sewer workers or garbage collectors. Whenever you take advantage of a developed society, you always have a duty to give something back to it. If there is not Time enough after a 8 hour shift to to what you want, you have a serious Problem.
  • justmedep 2y ago
    I totally disagree and don’t even know where to begin… People are different. Some are just not “as resilient” as others. Some have mental issues. Some have other priorities in life. Some people are just overwhelmed when they have to focus on more than one thing (their own wellbeing) - which should and cannot be confused with selflessness. Not everyone wants to accept the common conceptions of life. And that’s ok.
  • spacecadet 2y ago
    Some people might consider a family of 5 in the current climate to be a gross level of over consumption... Do you take responsibly for your actions here?
• delitrem 2y ago
  I'm a kind of political fugitive (probably will go into the prison for the beliefs if return to the country of origin), living in one of EU countries, married, having a little child and two dogs, owning apartament, have no significant health issues, also having second year without income at all, having some money on banking account, full-time working for the own startup on open source project. And I do not feel very disappointed.
• jstanley 2y ago
  > I used to think that I overspent. That my groceries could have been cheaper. That I could have eaten out or traveled less. Then a few months ago, I went on NomadList and found out that the average living cost in Montreal is $3,750/mo. Considering that I spent the first year in Ottawa/Toronto, where the cost of living is even higher, my spending habits turned out not that bad after all. I’m not just average — I’m slightly better! This philosophy may not be ideal for your circumstances. You already knew you had limited funds and no income. "Slightly better than average" is overspending.
• _rrnv 2y ago
  There’s a moral in this story but the HN crowd ain’t gonna like it: money is capital. Two years ago the author had no job and 80k in the bank. At least half was disposable. Had he invested that 40k or more in a risk-averse fashion (20% s&p/btc; 80% t-bills) his position today would be much better. Instead he ate through his capital. Always invest your disposable savings or income. Hate me now. Thank me later.
  • BugsBunny1991 2y ago
    What's the difference in risk between the S&P and BTC? I'm all in on S&P and it feels as if BTC is an even bigger gamble.
    • greenie_beans 2y ago
      oh that's funny, somebody saying they should buy bitcoin with part of their money rather than blow it in 2 years trying to pursue their entrepreneur dreams.
      • _rrnv 2y ago
        It still boggles the mind that everyone had 3 chances (cycles) so far to 5-10x their capital with btc but they still think it’s funny. Hfsp ;)
    • _rrnv 2y ago
      The difference is volatility. S&P and BTC hit their bottoms around Nov 2022. Since then the former is almost 2x up, the latter almost 7x. Similarly once they hit their tops, S&P will go down 15-20% but BTC more like 50-70% down.
  • Vinnl 2y ago
    Depends on when that money is going to result in the most valuable experiences, of course.
  • nitwit005 2y ago
    He was investing it, in starting new businesses. He has revenue from one. The return just wasn't what he wanted.
• byyoung3 2y ago
  Try carnivore bro. Read the mind body prescription by John Sarno. Meditate 20 mins per day
• acd10j 2y ago
  Not sure, If he has option OP can ask his parents to help or live with them. Having zero balance in account is not a very good situation to be in.
• p00dles 2y ago
  Well I’ll be damned if it didn’t make my day to read somebody talking so honestly about their life. Thanks for the being relatable, and for putting yourself out there.
• ChiMan 2y ago
  The moral of the story: Don’t quit your job unless you have an employment contract for another one or if you have a reliable, growing side hustle that generates enough income to live on. Real life bites hard, and $80k is peanuts.
  • titanomachy 2y ago
    Did we read the same article? This guy is spending his time learning music, mastering a sport, spending time with close friends, and your takeaway is “he should be grinding away at a corporate like everyone else”? There’s a lot of different ways to live. Personally I like taking periods of voluntary unemployment to explore other interests. Finding a job after has never been a problem. A large percentage of the population has at least some safety net. Probably the average 25 year old could move back in with their parents for a year if things got really bad.
    • mplewis 2y ago
      This guy is spending more than he makes. Who is bankrolling him?
      • titanomachy 2y ago
        It sounds like he is bankrolling himself, by working and saving up money.
        • baobabKoodaa 2y ago
          According to the article, no he isn't
    • ChiMan 2y ago
      In other words, the parents protect the kid from real life. No thanks.
      • titanomachy 2y ago
• javiramos 2y ago
  Accutane killed my stomach for a good while
• Jabbs 2y ago
  Are you looking for a job now? It seems the market is even tougher than it was a few years ago. I have built an app to scrape job listings directly from company websites if you're interested
  • jjordan 2y ago
    I'm interested, how can I check it out?
    • Jabbs 2y ago
      https://www.unlistedjobs.com/ https://www.unlistedjobs.com/ If you signup and want it free please just email me (listed on my profile). Currently asking $15/mo for the app
• the__alchemist 2y ago
  I wonder how the dating world would go, given he's divorced, even before running out of money. I.e.: I think most women would immediately reject someone unemployed. (Even if he had money) Taking a risk like this while in a relationship is probably fine, but trying to start one with a stranger is likely to be significantly more difficult than while employed.
  • Aeolun 2y ago
    Just have to find someone else that’s unemployed? Or someone that doesn’t care? If there’s men that don’t care a woman is unemployed the reverse must be true too.
    • mettamage 2y ago
      The way I see it, the more disadvantages you have the more you need to make up for it with charisma. That's how I do it anyway. Charisma is trainable. It's not easy to train, but it ultimately is trainable.
      • Aeolun 2y ago
        Only if your standards are high. Instead of training charisma, you can lower your standards.
        • mettamage 2y ago
          If one can live with that, then that's a legit option as well
  • titanomachy 2y ago
    Being single for a couple years isn’t the end of the world. Besides, he’s in the climbing community, which (at least from the outside) appears to be chock full of barely-employed attractive men and women who all sleep with each other.
  • bradlys 2y ago
• cynicalpeace 2y ago
  Don't quit your job to start something. Start something on the side. Spending down $80,000 in savings is a massive L.
  • Alifatisk 2y ago
    Yeah, I don't get why people are praising this idea, it's a huge risk to take. If you don't have a safety net to catch yourself, don't do this!
    • kbr- 2y ago
      What if your job sucks so much energy out of you, it's even hard to imagine to do something on the side?
      • em-bee 2y ago
        job, family and more. i hire a helper for the housework so that i can get more time for myself. but i live in a country where such helpers are cheap. couldn't do that in europe.
      • cynicalpeace 2y ago
        Get a new job. Someone else in this thread said it well. If you're unable to pipeline for a new job, you'll definitely be unable to pipeline to get sales.
    • cynicalpeace 2y ago
      I mean, he did have a safety net and he squandered it. $80,000 is a great down payment in most places of the USA. You could buy a large country home with a pool and a view in most places of the world with that money. I like risk takers, but quitting your job and spending all that money isn't actually a risk, it's just kinda lazy. I'm not trying to be mean. This guy's obviously doing a lot right. He has friends, he's physically active, he has hobbies. But none of these things requires spending down $80k with effectively $0 in income. Maybe he reads this comment and it lights a fire under his ass. 2 years is too long to get going, bro. You gotta dial in, move faster, and make money in a few weeks tops, or just get a job and slow burn on the side.
• gorfian_robot 2y ago
  Eric Bachman, this is your mom, and you, you are not my baby.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• nell 2y ago
  Did he try to get a job at all? Being from Canada and technical, I will say OP isn't trying enough. https://digitalcareers.infosys.com/infosys/global-careers?location=Canada https://digitalcareers.infosys.com/infosys/global-careers?lo... https://ibegin.tcs.com/iBegin/jobs/search https://ibegin.tcs.com/iBegin/jobs/search https://www.epam.com/careers/job-listings?recruitingUrl=%2Fcontent%2Fepam%2Fen%2Fcareers%2Fjob-listings%2Fjob&country=Canada&sort=relevance&searchType=placeOfWorkFilter https://www.epam.com/careers/job-listings?recruitingUrl=%2Fc...
• mekoka 2y ago
  I've been there. Some advice. So you found yourself with some safety net and are contemplating reinventing yourself in some way. Maybe working on a side project, or supplementing your skillset by learning something new. My first and top advice is to move to a place where just breathing and thinking is cheap. Travel if you can (i.e. you're young, have no kids, no relationships, no obligations). The slow burn will alleviate the stress and the need to precipitate a decision. Nomadlist, Numbeo, and the numerous nomad blogs are your friends. Start working on your projects from there. Come back home when you have some feelers moving. Second. If your runway is only a year or two, prioritize acquiring a skill that'll make it easy to find work by the end of the run. Take a course on something trendy or valuable. If you choose to work on a project, also consider it the demo you'll eventually present to companies you'll interview at if things don't pan out. If you have 3 or 4 years, consider that you actually only have 1 to get something up and running. Third. Don't be too ambitious with your first project. Aim to build something that can sustain living in a place where it's cheap to just breathe and think. Good luck.
  • cwalv 2y ago
    Also, carefully consider the costs. It's usually pretty hard to get the first 80-100k; burning your principal to 0 probably doesn't make sense. If it wasn't hard for you, that income stream is worth a lot, so you should carefully consider whether you're burning any bridges. If you're not burning bridges or burning principal to 0, that's a complete reframing of the situation.
• ezekiel68 2y ago
  Other considerations aside -- Given the difficulties in the tech job market over the past couple of years, I highly doubt most people who click through this headline will relate to the story of a guy who _decided_ to quit with 2+ years of living expenses saved up.
• d_burfoot 2y ago
  The problem with the "try a lot of projects, see what works" is that you lose out on exponential growth every time a project fails. A lot of people would be better off doing "intra-preneurship", meaning trying to innovate and strategize within their current company to make the job more fun, gain more autonomy, and advance their career prospects.
  • FredPret 2y ago
    You only need exponential growth to work once
    • aorloff 2y ago
      But you have to be able to execute when it arrives
  • ghaff 2y ago
    At the end of the day, it's a bet. You'll probably make zero (or negative after expenses). You may make some passable income. You might make a lot. Whereas working for a big company, you have a fairly reliable shot at bringing in a decent income with some stability. Nothing is guaranteed of course.
  • fellowmartian 2y ago
    I’m sorry, but what exponential growth are you talking about? No company will ever pay you that much as a regular salaried employee.
    • itake 2y ago
      Career growth. This includes job title, responsibilities, and compensation. Companies can promote you every 1-2 years, but you need to start that clock.
      • fellowmartian 2y ago
        It’s not exponential though, at most you’re looking at 2-3 orders of magnitude growth unless you’re a founder.
• boiler_up800 2y ago
  This is the tech equivalent of ‘my year of rest and relaxation’, enjoyable to read with talk of sports and projects. I think I will try this after my current job runs its course.
• jumparoundwords 2y ago
  Crazy to me that some people in the comments believe that 80k$ dollar is peanuts. Even in Germany I could easily live with that for more than 5 years. If I had that kind of money lying around I would move to another country, pay for my whole education, learn a new language and still have enough money for multiple full-time start-up attempts.
  • bradlys 2y ago
    Cost of living in the US is very high. HN skews towards the SV crowd. $80k isn't even a year of rent for many here. If you instead bought a home recently in SV, $80k wouldn't even get you halfway through the year. There's a reason people get paid $400k+/yr in SV. The place is expensive and you need to keep people there somehow.
    • dragonwriter 2y ago
      > $80k isn’t even a year of rent for many here. $80k is more than the median annual rent on a three-bedroom house in San Francisco; if its "not even a year of rent", even in the "SV crowd", that's because of lavish personal choices, not location-based necessity. > There’s a reason people get paid $400k+/yr in SV. Yes, because the jobs paying that are highly selective and there is lots of competition for talent. The cost of living in SV is a consequence of the concentration of high-paying jobs, not its cause.
    • jumparoundwords 2y ago
      I do wonder what's keeping people there long term. With that amount of money you can have an amazing life in so many places on this earth, and these people definitely have the resources to do that. Have these people never experienced life abroad? Quality of life is much higher elsewhere.
• khushy 2y ago
  How about that guy who wrote graphing calculator? Or the guy who put zip in windows explorer?
• consf 2y ago
  [dead]
• shoulderfake 2y ago
  [dead]
• zynlo 2y ago
  To the author: Thank you for this blogpost. I'm in a difficult situation myself and your writeup helped me reflect. I wish you all the best.
• hoherd 2y ago
  Shout out to the low-FODMAP diet. I did that last year after having several months of abdominal pain and discomfort, and was stunned at how quickly a change in diet could solve these seemingly chronic symptoms. At the end of the second day I told my wife I couldn't remember the last time I felt so good. I'd recommend trying it for a few days to pretty much anybody, because doing it can't hurt, and who knows? It might make you feel better. It's not intended to be a long-term thing anyway, more of a diagnostic tool to help you learn about your body.
  • aaronblohowiak 2y ago
    I was low-fodmap for YEARS (a little onion on something would trigger an emergency bathroom situation for me...) . but now FODZYME means I even make onion jelly for my burgers with zero discomfort. it costs about a dollar per serving and you have to put it on after cooking (heat denatures it or something) but it is truly a game-changer. im not affiliated in any way except I just ordered another bottle.
• Nimishg14 2y ago
  Thanks for the honesty dude. I got fired earlier this year. I have been working on personal projects since. I have personal savings to last for around 3-4 years. Lately I have been stressing a lot, thinking about what would happen if I fail to make a single penny in upcoming years. Reading your post was a breath of fresh air.
  • purplethinking 2y ago
    I took over a year off working on a project before I joined another company. Never made any money, but in retrospect I see that I could have made it work in 2-3 years, but the stress would have interfered. Wish I could be more chill, but money stresses me out. Getting close to do it again, but this time I'm fairly close to being financially independent at a barebones lifestyle. I mean, with 22 years of living expenses saved I should be fine right? Right? I should be able to make some money at SOME point. But the reason I have 22 years of expenses is because I'm neurotic about money...
  • crtified 2y ago
    (I'll nest my thought here, as there's some relevance to your position) I'm looking a long way back to when I was in your position : I got fired about 10 years ago, after unrealistic expectations and mental health burnout led to me making regrettable statements to executives. The entire experience and time since is far too large to encompass in a post. But perhaps my biggest takeaway after all this time is that most people waste a great, great deal of money frivolously. Having even an average income, more often than not, leads to a lifestyle where it's standard to buy a $50 version of an everyday item because it has a certain stamp and shiny packaging, instead of the $10 one that frugal people use. Going to the food markets with a comfortable income is a thoughtless experience of filling bags with items you like the look of, regardless of price or purpose. Tens of thousands are dropped on a whim for a change of travel-box (car). An executive spends more on daily coffee than I do on my total coffee+breakfast+lunch. The income finds a way to be spent, but the experience isn't necessarily that different. I'll indulge in another edit-in point. Home economics. It used to be a school subject. People thought it was about cooking, and sewing. Millions of mothers and grandmothers from past generations know that basic cooking skills actually = a lot of money in the bank. The best food you ever ate, at half the cost, in perpetuity. Concepts like these, where you trade a % of your time for directly applicable, $-winning skills (as opposed to using salary to pay others) is a key necessity of living sustainably outside the traditional 40-hour-week employment system. The best part is when you realise it's all the same. You'll job Here, or you'll job There. Everybody does 24hrs of something per day, and if you're smart, you WILL find your way to comfort. Perhaps on surprisingly less money than you thought. It will just take time and persistence. And if not, well, the traditional job market always wants smart people too, sooner or later.
• mlboss 2y ago
  Everybody's life is different but if I have to do something similar this will be my strategy: - Move to a low cost place where other indiehackers go: thailand, bali. - Start living in a cheap hostel with other indiehackers - Copy an existing app with lot of users and something that interest me - Start with the lowest price possible. Keep on adding features and introducing expensive plans - Non stop marketing on X, FB, Insta, reddit etc As soon as you leave your job it is a ticking clock. Every minute is important. I know mental sanity is important but life of entrepreneur is not best one if you want one. It is risky. It is a grind.
  • theteapot 2y ago
    Is Bali still cheap? I heard is was a mess now.
• kachurovskiy 2y ago
  I wonder if a part-time remote job coupled with full time traveling on a budget would have been a more sustainable, enjoyable and productive approach. Hanging with pals in Montreal is cool but it's expensive and not very productive.
  • em-bee 2y ago
    the challenge is finding such a job.
  • senko 2y ago
    > a part-time remote job coupled with full time traveling on a budget a.k.a. Digital Nomad
• theLegionWithin 2y ago
  I did that, sort of, pre-pandemic. IBM did a restructuring of my division in mid-2018 and I got RIFed. I pulled UI for 6 months and then lived off of my savings for a while - I looked at it as a mini-retirement. it was really nice, and made me appreciate work more (I'd been getting burnout from the IBM job). when it was time to look for work again, the pandemic hit and I had a few tough months. I onboarded at a place mid-2020 and am still employed at the same place to this day. cant say I feel valued by the employer but I enjoy my job, it's a bit less stressful than my previous job.
• djeastm 2y ago
  Folks, just live your life how it fits you. We're all born into a different set of circumstances that dictate many of the choices we make. We all have different ideas about what life means to us and what levels of risk we're comfortable taking. Listen to your gut and focus on what you'll be smiling about as you lie on your deathbed.
  • Apofis 2y ago
    These past three year's markets have been super tough. It's the hardest I've worked in my life to be employed in the field I was interested in actually working in, which is building software. I've had to get two new roles in that time due to layoffs. 1000's of applications, and all that entails. I was ready to be a farmhand this summer before things actually worked out, figured I would get to work a farm on a lake, and fish on my time off, it's pretty much what I want to do when I retire, shouldn't be so bad. Just be flexible. Work as hard as you can to get what you want, but remember McDonalds pays nearly $20 an hour these days, if it keeps the lights on, don't be above it. Better than being homeless.
    • oblio 2y ago
      I fear that we might be in the twilight of the software development job market: https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/ https://www.hnhiringtrends.com/ Everybody got used to continuous growth, but I fear that for most people the music has stopped.
      • Tade0 2y ago
        I think this chart would have been greatly enhanced by adding Fed interest rates. The way things were during the previous decade was not sustainable. The current situation too shall pass and hopefully evolve into something more sustainable. I for one don't miss the churn fuelled by easy VC money.
        • gedy 2y ago
          https://imgur.com/a/hfc2wq2 https://imgur.com/a/hfc2wq2
• ge96 2y ago
  I was/am paycheck to paycheck, if I didn't have so much debt I could get by. I was working at AmazonFC, then driving uber eats (Uber makes more) and donating plasma. I was able to make $5-6K/mo granted I was working a lot eg. up to 80 hrs, at least 1 job everyday and I was not paying taxes yet on the side income. I do pay taxes by year. Edit: thankfully after a year I got a new job, contract role. I have experience but no degree so harder for me.
• Fokamul 2y ago
  OP, imagine you live in EU. You could get unemployment support payments + rent payment from social security, for a year at minimum. I thought you have somewhat similar social security in Canada, no?
  • ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
    There's unemployment insurance but only if you're laid off.
• blobbers 2y ago
  What's your plan to make food/rent money for the next year? Sounds like you currently have $68 and need to pay rent/eat?
• Fr0styMatt88 2y ago
  A few years back I got a nice severance and took some time off, but looking back on it now I do regret not trying to get a job sooner. It would have been so nice just to have that money behind me in the bank while still bringing more in.
• uhtred 2y ago
  Product launch when will you launch demo startup VC! VC! Demo product launch eat sleep code repeat cringe what's your stack hacker congrats on the launch website just a website not working at NASA just crud crud crud standup grooming review retro LinkedIn engineering@fuckly so excited to share! Occam's razor
• _giorgio_ 2y ago
  This post makes no sense. You're making fun of your readers. Somewhere you have hidden money or people that will help you. The end.
• betimsl 2y ago
  I'm going through a very similar thing for 2 years now. All I can say is that I don't wanna work for a company anymore, specially a FANG like setup. I have some friends who work, sometimes they work remotely from my studio and when they do zoom meetings, oh man, ugh...
• xkbarkar 2y ago
  Some clarification on the comments on unemployment in the Nordics . The nordics arent really as inviting, socialist and helpful as many US interweebs might think. Sweden and Denmark will only pay unemployment if you have unemployment insurance. Called A-kassa. It is very expensive and you have to have paid it for a year to be able to claim benefits. If you don´t pay A-kassa you will have the pleasure of having them spam you to reel you on 3-4 times a week. The Swedes and Danes have the highest taxes in the world but are using the US medical insurace as a model for unemployment. Really not the welfare system these two countries claim they have. The benefits you get from the A-kassa are extremly low. Less than average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment. You can buy another really expensive insurance to get a little higher amount. And even if it's an insurance you have paid for you will get hounded to get any job, the Danish authorities may send you to do pretty much menial job they demand to get you off the benefits. The Swedish are not as bad as the Danish in that regard. The way to live unemployed in Denmark and Sweden is to get into the medical system. Get a doctor to sign you have some illness. Stress is probably 90% of the cases in Denmark. Then you get a small amount montly, it has been pre covered by your tax money so you dont need to pay the extortionate A-kassa (unemployment insurance) and no one will hound you to take some excruciating job no one wants to do. This setup btw benefits the ruling parties in Sweden and Denmark as they can claim unenployment is at an historic low. No one counts the people on, I suppose it could be called, disability. Iceland is a little different. Unemployment is covered in your tax payments, it's not a private (it's not supposed to be profitable, but trust me, for the A-kassa it truly is ) insurance like Denmark and Sweden. In Iceland you have to show proof that you are actively looking for work and you will be cut off from benefits for an x number of months after an x amount of time. Do not remember the exact setup. Bizarrely the Icelandic system is a lot more fair and less cruel than the Swedish and Danish. All three pay out a very very very low amount of money though. Now, coming from a point of bitterness. This medical loop is exploited as you wouldnt beleive in Sweden and Denmark. I have people in my vicinty proudly admitting they are on "stress" leave because some employer said something mean to them they didnt want to hear. So the working dane and swede has to pay minimum 44% taxes of their salary to keep this sham going. I pay an exruciating amount of taxes in the Nordic countries. Sweden and Denmark are the highest. Iceland a little less. It pisses me off royally to see the tax money gamed in this way and this has turned me to voting for parties I never thought I would. Social democrats are a poision, maybe they were useful 50 years ago but today they do enourmous damage to countries that offer tax payed welfare. tldr; You need savings in the Nordics too if you are going to quit your job. If you can get a doctor to sign a medical paper that claims you had to leave work because of stress, you can game the system and let the taxpayers pay for your hobbies for a few years.
• octopusRex 2y ago
  Reading through comments on living paycheck to paycheck was brutal as it sounds like many people here have no clue what really living paycheck to paycheck is like. No, it doesn't mean you can still go out to eat and have a club membership. If you save nothing after you use up your entire paycheck going out to eat and paying for a gym membership , that means you aren't handling money well. Sorry folks, but many of us here sound entitled. Having been poor and scrambled my way up, it was depressing reading.
• strzibny 2y ago
  Nice write up. Don't listen to folks at jobs that will never "get it". I wish you good luck, left my last full-time job mid last year.
• anonymous344 2y ago
  why isnt the WonderBook - Stories for Kids avaible for my device in google play?
• mv4 2y ago
  Anxiety hits different when you have responsibilities (family, kids, dependents).
• Unbeliever69 2y ago
  I voluntarily left the workforce a few years ago, and I'm fortunate that my wife, a teacher, has a solid job earning over $100k a year. While that’s not a huge amount, it’s enough for us to live comfortably. What we discovered during this transition was eye-opening: most of my income had been going toward discretionary spending, much of it wasteful. Now, even though I only generate $200–$500 a month in passive income from a few books I sell on Amazon (gotta love passive income), we’re actually living better than before. This is thanks to paying off debt, living more within our means, and both of us feeling more personally fulfilled. So, what do I do now? * Household management: I handle cooking (about half), cleaning, shopping, finances, repairs—basically all the day-to-day stuff. * Supporting my wife: I act as her personal assistant. I write emails, grants, and curriculum; create her presentations and visuals; and handle whatever else she needs so she can focus on teaching. With my help, she’s raised over $100k in two years to support her program—not too shabby! * Pet parent: I’m a proud cat and dog dad. Side projects: I’m working on a web app that I hope will generate income someday. * Writing a novel: For the first time, I’ve moved past the endless planning stage and am actually writing! I’ve also got more ideas in the works. * Tabletop game design: I have about ten tabletop games in various stages of development, and a few are done. I’d love to get at least one published. A friend and I even created a tabletop game that teaches condensed matter physics (CMP 101 level) with funding from an NSF grant. It’s more of a euro-game than an edu-game, and we’re looking to publish it and maybe turn it into an app. * Self-care: Decades of work, especially in startups, took a toll on me emotionally and physically. Today, I'm more organized, more productive, more focused, and more motivated than ever. I have a lot of work to do to repair my health, but I'm working on it. What I’m finally able to do: * Engage in emotionally rewarding activities instead of draining ones. * Pursue personal goals and dreams I’ve always put on hold. * Channel my energy into supporting my wife, which has made her happier and more fulfilled in her career—a first for her. * Be the master of my own destiny rather than living on someone else’s terms. I do feel some anxiety about putting the financial burden on my wife. She understands and values the contributions I make to our household and her career, so there’s no resentment on her part. Still, I worry about what would happen if she lost her job or couldn’t work. I cope by focusing on the fact that the things I’m pursuing can generate income. If I channel my energy positively and healthily into these pursuits, I believe they eventually will.
• yapyap 2y ago
  cool
• yibbix 2y ago
  It’s been almost two years since I was layed off. Unlike him though, I have not been working on side projects. This time has actually made me realize that I do not enjoy software, even working on projects for myself and as a hobby. I’ve slowly spent all my savings, moved back in with my folks, and still don’t have a job. It’s rough. I have no idea what I wanna do in life. So I decided to join the navy recently, to give me the next 4 years to figure it out.
  • Muskyinhere 2y ago
    You are on hn so let me ask you this: Are/were you a nerd? Did you play around with systems, use linux for fun etc.? If yes, you just might be depressed or haven't realized that a job might be shit anyway. If no, interesting though that you are aware of hn (i have to assume a certain interest because i know plenty of software people avg ones, not being aware of hn at all). But hf at the navy.
    • oooyay 2y ago
      That's not really the qualifier you think it is. I've been coding and hacking stuff up since I was nine. Corporate programming is a great perversion of the kind of stuff I find fun to do in my spare time. In order to be successful you not only need to be a good programmer and curious person but you also need to know how to navigate corporate power structures (explicit and implicit), you need to be somewhat of a therapist helping people tap into their true problems, and above all else you need to be excellent at compartmentalization.
  • hudon 2y ago
    similar boat. Been doing software for 15 years and I used to love it. Learning new languages, side projects, contributing to open source, you name it. At every job I became less enthusiastic, like the technical problems all became the same. The actual problems became ones of people, management, customer, product, etc., and I had no interest in solving those. So this year I decided to not code... and I don't miss it at all. However I have no idea what I will work on next. I was in the army before uni - it was grueling but awesome. You'll find your way fren
• meonkeys 2y ago
  Good read, thank you Sergei. Refreshingly honest and surprisingly inspiring. Good luck!
• enjoyitasus 2y ago
  keep it up
• zer8k 2y ago
  I'd love to do this - I have had so many ideas and just wanted to take a sabbatical to refocus after the corporate grind. Unfortunately I need healthcare. An ACA plan cost me $1200/mo. over COVID when I was out of work for two months. It was a complete panic. Just mortgage, utilities, food, and healthcare was almost $3,500 a month. Throw in car insurance (because I'm American) and it was unsustainable. If there's one thing the ACA is - it's not affordable. A complete garbage program that has enabled health insurance companies to take our money by force. I've realized there's no way I can do this. I missed my window when I was in college (because I was working - for healthcare). Now I'm condemned to suffer until I retire or die. A consummate worker drone shackled by literal bureaucratic bullshit.