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Samsung TV owners complain about increasingly obtrusive ads

• mtgx 6y ago
  > Panasonic has been experimenting with showing ads when you adjust audio volume and European broadcasters have started using HbbTV to serve targeted ads. Who ever thought that would be a good idea? Do these people have no common sense whatsoever? People will dump TVs and TV watching and switch to PC set top boxes, internet streaming, large monitors before they accept this sort of nonsense.
• bleepblorp 6y ago
  Just as the 's' in 'IoT' stands for 'security', the 'f' in 'IoT' stands for 'fairness to users.' Never buy a consumer product that expects an Internet connection.
  • Shivetya 6y ago
    Well that does get very difficult with TV since a large number of people stream, the app on my LG is actually better than my Apple TV but it is toss up with the Roku on the other TV. So I am going to say, for the technically inclined its time to chase down your router firewall logs and find where the TV is going to for ads and block the IP or port range. Would be curious what the TV does, properly engineered it should just act as if its not connected at all.
    • Gravityloss 6y ago
      One could use a separate box for all the smarts. Integration brings unneeded obsolescence and reduces choice and control. May be hard to avoid in space constrained phones but should not be needed on tvs.
    • nonninz 6y ago
      I have also a LG TV, and I used to keep it disconnected at all times as all my streaming comes from the nVidia Shield anyway. However recently I wanted to setup my home automation system to automatically turn the TV off when I go to bed or outside, and for that I needed to connect it to the home network. I solved this by confguring the router firewall to drop any package from the TV to the internet. It works!
      • ahelwer 6y ago
        Sadly google has started serving ads on the android TV home screen, which will presumably affect the shield.
        • Kipters 6y ago
          Mine doesn't show ads (yet?). I hope that means pihole is effective enough in blocking them.
    • bleepblorp 6y ago
      It's just a matter of time until Smart TVs deactivate themselves if they can't connect to their telemetry and ad servers -- or the manufacturers enter into agreements with streaming services to proxy ads through the same IPs used to stream video. This would not be without precedent. Some Samsung TVs already refuse to exit setup mode if they can't connect to the Internet after initial power-on to geo-lookup their IP to make sure that they're being used in the country they're sold for. The best solution for streaming is a low-end PC with hardware video decoding and the ability to run Ublock Origin. . . . Edit: I see from other comments that Samsung TVs already go into degraded functionality mode if they can't connect to their ad servers, and already serve some ads from endpoints used for necessary functionality.
      • mongol 6y ago
        What gets lost in degraded mode?
        • vetinari 6y ago
          Anything that requires Internet connection (i.e. Youtube, including casting from mobile device). I just found out this weekend; with an older, cca 2013-ish samsung tv, connected to a network that has OpenWRT router with Adblock, and forced redirect of all port 53, 853 traffic to the local resolver. It cannot resolve its mothership (the rules were already in the Adblock list, I didn't add anything). The TV shows up a messagebox that it cannot to the Internet and asking the user to check the connection. The local DLNA sources work.
      • Steko 6y ago
        WE NOTICED YOU'VE BLOCKED OUR AD SERVER - covers entire screen
      • mcv 6y ago
        I haven't seen any of this behaviour on my Samsung TV yet, but I'm going to pay more attention to it now. And definitely avoid Samsung in the future.
      • KozmoNau7 6y ago
    • matt-attack 6y ago
      I’m shocked to hear you say that the smart TVs ui is better than an AppleTV. Would love to know more.
  • sschueller 6y ago
    I had to blacklist my wifi controlled air purifier on my router as it was sending data every few seconds to Amazon's DCs. If they want to collect air quality stats from my location they should pay me for that data.
    • DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      I'm guessing that in addition to them pushing their data stats to AWS they don't make that data available to you for free or indefinitely? (kinda like how Nest only lets you see 10 days' worth of thermostat data via their own service with absolutely no option or ability to download a CSV of all data since day 1 even though they have that data in a SpannerDB somewhere in a Google datacenter)
      • sdfqasdghj 6y ago
        It is not the company's data. It is the users' data.
        • texasbigdata 6y ago
          So you’re positive after 7 days it all gets purged?
    • tadzik_ 6y ago
      > If they want to collect air quality stats from my location they should pay me for that data From their perspective, they probably gave you a discount for your data. See also https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-advertising-2019-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-adv...
      • reallydontask 6y ago
        it's an interesting point you make, but perhaps companies should make these trade offs transparent. You can get the version that phones home or you can pay extra for the version that doesn't. I suppose the problem is that they'd make this transparent and there would likely be a bit of backlash ... thank goodness that regulatory agencies have our best interests at heart /s
  • izacus 6y ago
    > Never buy a consumer product that expects an Internet connection. This is a nice trite trope, but getting an affordable TV without these features might be nearly impossible for most people these days.
    • vanderZwan 6y ago
      How ridiculous is it that it's harder to get a product without extra nonsense added?
      • MaxikCZ 6y ago
        That extra nonsense is generating revenue to the manufacturer of the product
        • contravariant 6y ago
          At this point we might as well cut out the middleman and pay people to connect a black box to all their devices.
      • tzs 6y ago
        In the case of TVs I think it also has to do with there being no real hardware difference between a fancy Smart TV and a dumb TV. A dumb TV nowadays is going to be implemented as essentially a computer and monitor running a set of TV applications, just like a Smart TV. The only difference will be that fewer programs will be loaded onto the dumb TV.
    • MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      True, but even if you're paying for a network-capable device, you still have the option of not plugging it in.
      • mulmen 6y ago
        Do you? Manufacturers can easily require an Internet connection to make the device work. They can also include their own radios and modems. All in the name of being user friendly!
  • save_ferris 6y ago
    It's impossible to find a new TV these days that doesn't have an internet connection out of the box.
    • RandomBacon 6y ago
      Sceptre 4K dumb TVs
    • aembleton 6y ago
      Argos have 14 different ones for sale, largest being 43" https://www.argos.co.uk/browse/technology/televisions-and-accessories/televisions/c:30106/smart-tv:no/ https://www.argos.co.uk/browse/technology/televisions-and-ac...
    • dspillett 6y ago
      My TV can connect, but is happy to live without. Though I've never used the smart features, just terrestrial digital TV, a PC over HDMI, a Pi running Kodi over HDMI, and an old DVD player via SCART. The TV doesn't enforce an interactive menu to pick those sources from, it is a simple selection on the remote, so it doesn't have anywhere to force ads. If it becomes impossible to buy a TV that doesn't just display what I chose by the time this one is due for replacement, I'll take a device sold as a computer monitor instead. Or a projector. Maybe I'll pay extra, but I'll be fine with that.
    • nfoz 6y ago
      LG still makes them, if you carefully navigate to their Business "Commercial Lite" or digital-signage options. I love my 55" 4k dumb TV. But you might not get some high-end features like HDR.
• cageface 6y ago
  Expect more of this as users hold onto their devices for longer and services become increasingly important as a source of recurring revenue. Apple is uniquely positioned to weather this transition. The best way I can see forward for Samsung here is profit sharing with Google and Microsoft.
• retSava 6y ago
  Do they wait with showing ads, say a month or so, until after the common return policy for most stores have expired? That would be a really evil thing to do, just struck my mind. Also, sounds like a case of optimization creep - "I know a way to get even more revenue, we just sign up with this $more_shady_ad_network!". Displaying more and more creepy ads, no-one decreasing ads since they don't want to be the one decreasing ad revenue.
  • mnw21cam 6y ago
    > Do they wait with showing ads, say a month or so, until after the common return policy for most stores have expired? What? A month? Sale of goods act.
    • retSava 6y ago
      Sorry, don't where you're at. Over here, it's commonly a month return policy of most stores (no law setting this, it's a voluntary thing). Then there's quite generous warranty for 2 years, up to 3 years, but that's when things break. In addition, I think this also includes if a sold item is unfit for advertised use, or perhaps even if substantially changed during ownership (eg Samsung mandatorily introducing ads), but I've never had to use that so don't know).
      • oarsinsync 6y ago
        > Then there's quite generous warranty for 2 years, up to 3 years, but that's when things break. I disagree with describing this as 'generous'. A TV manufacturer should guarantee that the TV will not develop a manufacturing defect for a minimum of 3 years, if not longer. I have CRTs that lasted decades (plural) without issue, while I've had multiple LCDs fail in under a decade. There's nothing generous going on here, they're systematically making inferior products in order to drive an increase in sales.
  • adamparsons 6y ago
    They retrospectively updated panels going back to 2016 to "improve" the experience. Truly evil shit.
• rini17 6y ago
  When I wrote about phones "Mass market is demanding products nonsensically thin to the detriment of other properties, because it was told to. It could be told otherwise." I got laughed off. That the market isn't going to serve my fancy preferences. But this is the same thing, the market is repeatedly told to ask for smart devices, even when dumb TV is all the users need.
  • okr 6y ago
    Seems like, there are a lot of opinions out there. I often hear, what i can do on my phone i also want to see on tv. May it be playing music, movies, series, etc.. So a seamless integration from the start without another device like apple tv is a plus. Same happens to screen in cars.
    • fxtentacle 6y ago
      In cars, you usually just connect your phone with a cable. I would be happy to connect my phone to a TV and then just have it mirror the screen.
      • jpindar 6y ago
        Some phones have HDMI out.
  • kmlx 6y ago
    i disagree. i think that age has passed and tvs without the netflix app will simply not be bought. for myself, having no 4k hdr, no netflix, apple tv, youtube, bbc, and many others is a deal breaker when it comes to buying a new tv.
    • JohnBooty 6y ago
      You're being downvoted, but I think you're right. Personally, I would pay more for a TV without this functionality. I'm running one of the last "dumb" consumer TVs, from 2015. But the overwhelming majority of consumers just want smart TV stuff built right into their TVs. It's like power windows and air conditioning in cars. They used to be premium features. Now, you really can't buy a car without them, at least in the USA. (Pedantry note: As late as ~2014, you could still buy a Nissan Versa with manual windows; perhaps it's still possible)
• pfundstein 6y ago
  Here's wondering if these ads can be blocked simply with a DNS based blocker like PiHole.
  • cnasc 6y ago
    Roku’s ads (and intensive logging) can be blocked this way. I’d expect it to work that same for Samsung TVs
    • MaxBarraclough 6y ago
      How much does Roku log?
      • flatiron 6y ago
        It’s TLS so I don’t know what it’s attempting to log but the highest blocked device in my house is the roku. I even have a Samsung TV (which I’ve never seen an ad on btw but I set it to boot directly to the HDMI port with the roku)
        • JohnBooty 6y ago
          Is there any degraded functionality on the Roku if you block the logging?
          • flatiron 6y ago
            Only thing I’ve noticed is the Home Screen ad location is a big grey box as opposed to an ad. I only use it for Plex and PBS Kids. Both apps work perfectly.
  • foepys 6y ago
    As far as I know, not everything can be blocked. You were able to block everything in the past but no longer. Samsung catched on and now serves some ads over the same domains they distribute their firmware updates, install apps, get the program guide, and check the online status. If you block those domains the Samsung TV loses most of its internet features and also seems to go crazy and requests all domains multiple times per second, defeating deep sleep of the TV.
• tjungblut 6y ago
  It's even worse when the ad server is down: it will completely lock-up your TV and you can't even watch it anymore. In the best case it makes it excruciatingly slow. That's why I turned off networking on my SmartTV already a year or two ago. No ads, works as a TV should.
  • ComodoHacker 6y ago
    I hope someone will figure out how to serve them fake 1-second black screen ads from your Pi-hole.
  • silon42 6y ago
    +1 have Samsung TV(s), never connected to internet, never will.
    • silon42 6y ago
      I just fear they will start doing Internet via TV box via HDMI... it will be time to cancel that too, or use it via VGA converter.
      • walrus01 6y ago
        a lot of people don't know that HDMI can carry the equivalent of 100BaseTX Ethernet, which is definitely a threat in this scenario.
        • kavi87 6y ago
          That's another design flaw of this terrible mess that is "Ethernet" and these horrible protocols that we cannot change ever
        • mercora 6y ago
          AFAICT this works over the same pin that could carry ARC which is arguably more useful to most people and usually available at least on one port. However, devices could also communicate via DDC or CEC too although rather low bandwidth is available it could be enough for some telemetry. Its probably possible to do this via HDMI info frames too somehow... or via direct wireless connections between these devices or infrared or.... the point is there are quite some ways to achieve communication between connected devices already without it.
• olorton 6y ago
  I've had my Samsung TV for 3-4 years, it works just as well as well today as the first day that I bought it. I've never connected it to the internet and get streaming capabilities using 3rd party devices. Dumb TVs are much better than shit ones.
  • Kelteseth 6y ago
    This. Just buy an NVidia shield and use your TV as a monitor. The UI and the fact that it uses AndroidTV and not some shitty Samsung OS is reason alone to buy it. Also my Samsung TV gets a start signal from my NVidida Shield so I do not even have to bother with using 2 remotes :)
    • Kipters 6y ago
      That's exactly what I've been doing with my 2019 Samsung TV and and a Shield Pro. The TV is unplugged from the internet and all my streaming is done from the Shield, which is even better because: 1. The Netflix/Prime Video etc apps are snappier because of the beefier SoC 2. Content looks better, because DLSS does a better job at upscaling than the TV's native upscaler 3. I can use it to stream games from my PC, which is making me reconsider buying one of the new consoles just for couch gaming since I could spend the money on a new GPU to upgrade my rig an just stream from there. And as you mentioned, the presence of HDMI CEC makes remotes rather interchangeable I also didn't connect the antenna cable and didn't even notice during the entirety of the (Italian) lockdown since I never watch "normal" TV. At this point I wish it could be possible to get TVs without a tuner, I could stop paying the TV taxes!
      • pixxel 6y ago
        Re. point 3. Have you streamed yet or it’s just an option right now? Something I’m considering but I’ve not looked into. Wondering about lag, and if I have to run upstairs to my pc to start games etc.
        • Kipters 6y ago
• nicolas_t 6y ago
  Can those "smart" TV do ACR on content provided via HDMI? i.e. if I connect my apple TV to my intrusive smart TV, does it do ACR on the signal it receives via HDMI? At home I don't have a smart TV (I use a JVC video projector and they've resisted adding those kind of useless feature so far) but my parents use a smart TV connected to an apple TV and so I'm curious what happens there.
  • fsaintjacques 6y ago
    It sure does.
  • solarkraft 6y ago
    Yep, they can. AFAIK it's some real processing on the signal. I do wonder what kind of content it can detect and in which modes.
• jmull3n 6y ago
  Curious to see what HN users believe is the best smart TV to buy in terms of OS functionality, privacy and user experience?
  • asutekku 6y ago
    Any tv, but you do not connect it to an internet and get an apple tv to do it instead.
  • FooHentai 6y ago
    Whatever has the best panel for the best price, then strap an apple TV (or your choice of NUC) onto it and completely ignore whatever on-board smarts exist.
    • covercash 6y ago
      The biggest drawback to this is the lack of support for 4K in the YouTube app on Apple TV.
      • antsar 6y ago
        And that the YouTube app forces its ads and shitty recommendations down your throat. A NUC running Kodi sounds nicer. (Yeah, yeah, pi-hole. It’s a bandaid, IMHO) Also, Apple‘s streaming services being ever more annoyingly shoved in your face on menu screens.
        • kmlx 6y ago
          it doesn't have any ads if you buy Youtube Premium
          • Nextgrid 6y ago
            This requires accepting their ToS & "privacy" policy and providing validated billing data to Google, an advertising company already stalking everything you do on the web. Some people might not be comfortable with this, or not even trust them to begin with. I personally don't mind paying but there's no way in hell I am providing any personal information to Google.
• chris_wot 6y ago
  Far better to purchase a large screen, then get a TV capture card, and just use a media player platform.
• 7leafer 6y ago
  Mice cried prickling themselves, but kept eating the cactus.
• walrus01 6y ago
  You should absolutely never give your 'smart' television the wifi password or plug it into a cable that will give it a DHCP lease. Use the things as dumb displays driven by an xbox or PS4 or a home theater PC. Yes, the xbox and PS4 home screens have 'ads' (promoted games and stuff mostly), but they're not 1/10th as annoying in my opinion. And Microsoft and Sony have a much higher likelihood of keeping the operating systems properly patched and up to date on a 5, 10 year time scale.
  • felipelemos 6y ago
    Or just use a chromecast
    • chadlavi 6y ago
      Yeah let google serve you ads and sell your info, not Samsung or LG or Sony
      • m45t3r 6y ago
        I never saw an ad with Chromecast, and I use it basically since it's inception.
        • dastx 6y ago
          Sure no ads, except they're still tracking you to display ads on their other platforms. YouTube included.
          • m45t3r 6y ago
            This maybe true, but Google Ads even on YouTube is way less invasive than Samsung ones. And BTW, YouTube Premium disable all ads, while there is no way to have a ad-free experience on Samsung.
  • kmlx 6y ago
    > You should absolutely never give your 'smart' television the wifi password or plug it into a cable that will give it a DHCP lease. Use the things as dumb displays driven by an xbox or PS4 or a home theater PC. 1. why? 2. the ps4/xbox pale in comparison to my lg's apps. functionalities, quality of streams, the voice search. they're all much better on the lg apps.
• neya 6y ago
  Fuck the guy who wanted to suck up to the management in some stupid meeting projecting estimated revenue out of this to ask for a raise later because he "contributed to a revenue increase" to the company. There's absolutely no after thought to this decision - If I paid 1000s of dollars for an "idiot box" that's supposed to reproduce faithfully the signal that I pass it, showing ads is unacceptable, no matter what the context or reasoning is. This is one of the reasons I paid the premium and went for a Sony instead. They haven't done anything stupid like this yet, and I don't use smart features on the TV anyway, so I don't plan on updating the software either. Hopefully they face backlash over this stupidity and this doesn't go on to become a norm. That would be really, really terrible.
  • foepys 6y ago
    I also bought a Sony Android TV for this reason. Then last month Google pushed an update for the "Android TV Home" app and now there are many people complaining about ads on the home screen [1]. This is not really Sony's fault but rather Google's but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth… https://9to5google.com/2020/08/18/android-tv-homescreen-ads-turn-off-staff-picks/ https://9to5google.com/2020/08/18/android-tv-homescreen-ads-...
    • auggierose 6y ago
      Just buy an Apple TV, and then whatever TV you like.
      • nicolas_t 6y ago
        Apparently according to other comments a lot of TVs still do ACR on content received by the apple TV (or any hdmi signal) so we still need dumb tvs...
        • ah88 6y ago
          That's my current setup. TV with the network connection disabled running Apple TV.
        • 6y ago
• adwww 6y ago
  I walk into a department store or electronic shop, will I see these adverts demoed on the menus there? It would only be fair to let people know what to expect!
  • martin_a 6y ago
    Nah, those devices most likely run in "demo mode" which will obviously have ads disabled but is not suitable for home use... ;-)
• gowthamgts12 6y ago
  when i was looking to buy an oled tv, i never even considered samsung because of this problem. I went with lg c9. ads are there but very very minimal compared to samsung tvs. you'll be thrilled how much data these "smart" tvs collect when you plug it to your local DNS server.
• obscura 6y ago
  Yet another example of the customer coming last. Are TV's that force ads on customers heavily discounted? If not, the manufacturers are earning extra revenue while the customer loses their privacy and gets nothing in return other than annoyance. It's a good illustration of why privacy is so complicated: most people wouldn't think that in buying a TV they're compromising their privacy because they don't know about ACR and such. The manufacturers, of course, know all about it, but it's not in their interest to share the information - specifically, to do so in a way that empowers the consumer to make an educated decision at purchase time. (Or am I wrong and they do in fact explain everything "on the box"? I haven't had to buy a TV in a long time.)
  • traveler01 6y ago
    This is so stupid. When I bought my TV it didn't behave like this, but now for some stupid reason I need to get ads on it? I mean, normal TV it's 90% ads 10% content, do we need to watch even more ads? Anyone has any idea on how adding a filter like AdBlocker to your router? Never thought about this but it's getting useful af.
    • UncleSlacky 6y ago
      Pi-Hole would probably do the trick: https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/
      • rvwaveren 6y ago
        Yes, that works! I have a Samsung Frame + PiHole. Incredible amount of network requests are blocked now.
        • mercora 6y ago
          i tried blocking DNS or whitelisting and you probably see that large amount of blocked requests because it tries like every second if you refuse the response.
      • kxrm 6y ago
• izacus 6y ago
  One tip I've found useful - most TVs have a so-called "Hotel mode" (or a Service mode) where they can have most of their smart features disabled and can be locked to a single HDMI input (e.g. AppleTV / ShieldTV / Chromecast). That makes them into rather dumb panels that usually also disable those ads. At least I know it's possible on all Sony AndroidTV models and most Samsung models (not sure about their latest Tizen).
  • joking 6y ago
    samsung (and most brands) sell specific model for hospitality, those have hotel mode, so i doubt you can configure it on domestic ones.
    • ice3 6y ago
      Hotel mode can be activated on most (all?) Samsung TVs. You just have to access the hidden services menu.
      • joking 6y ago
        well, people cant test easily, just press mute + 1 + 1 + 9 + enter and you are in the service menu. I have only hospitality tvs, so can't test that on the domestic ones, hospitality tvs are charged a premium, so if the hotel menu is present on all tvs, i don't know what are they charging for.
        • starik36 6y ago
          So how do you do this again? My remote: https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/b5d22f5b6a1429e62f63b08acc6184d8227d7f3b/NEW-OEM-Samsung-Remote-Control-Specifically-For-UN60KU6300FXZA%2C-UN50KU6300F.jpg https://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/is/images/direct/b5d...
          • izacus 6y ago
            Well, Google it, it's not like we know which model TV with which software you have.
• xenadu02 6y ago
  Obviously you can buy "commercial signage" displays which are panels without the crapware. Anyone have recommendations for units they've bought this way? I've avoided upgrading my super old LCD because at least my current one is somewhat stupid and so long as I don't connect it to the network it mostly does what I bought it for: display the pixels.
  • conradfr 6y ago
    Do they have sound?
    • CamperBob2 6y ago
      Who uses their TV for sound? I don't even know if mine has a built-in speaker.
      • marakv2 6y ago
        I do. It's quite common in Japan to not have a surround sound etc. Our neighbours are quite close lol
    • newhotelowner 6y ago
      They have sound.
  • saiya-jin 6y ago
    Unnecessarily expensive. Just use any TV without allowing internet. Not connecting some (maybe not newest) TV vs not connecting commercial panel should be about same amount of work. I use few year old Sony like that, couldn't care less about any of these complaints. It requires trips to PC to manage content, which I think is the biggest hurdle of this approach for lazy couch potatoes.
  • newhotelowner 6y ago
    I am thinking about upgrading TVs at my hotel and 49 inch low to medium quality is between $440-600. These are designed for hotel/hospitals.
• sha5Eife 6y ago
  Slightly off topic : the message displayed when visiting that page with javascript turned off is hilarious : > Your browser is not Javascript enable or you have turn it off. We recommend you to activate for better security reason@SYSLOG: INTERNAL ERROR[2] Oh well, if it's for better security reason, then… /s
• tannhaeuser 6y ago
  It's not just ads. "Smart" TVs can also capture what you see and send that information home.
  • fxtentacle 6y ago
    Yes, and based on my research, Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic all connect to NetEase servers in China, if you grant them internet access.
    • cambalache 6y ago
      It does not matter if it's China, Hawaii or Timbuktu, it's wrong in any case. I can understand somehow western people sinophobia as they will be displaced as "owners of the world" in the next 50-100 years but if I were a "western" citizen now and were given a forced choice between China or my government having my digital data I would choose China every single time. Same reason for a Chinese citizen to choose Germany and not China for example.
      • fxtentacle 6y ago
        While I agree with you, the traffic to China did stand out in my router log enough for me to notice this. Had they used Amazon Aws, I might have never investigated. Plus, this is how I learned that Phillips is just a brand of a Chinese company now. And where the regions do get relevant again is for the legality of it. If it's an EU company doing such data extraction, they would be swiftly punished for it. Same I presume for the US. So I would assume that they are using a Chinese intermediary for the data to avoid / delay the legal consequences from it.
        • cambalache 6y ago
          > If it's an EU company doing such data extraction, they would be swiftly punished for it. Same I presume for the US. I love your optimism. Will a random company be punished? Probably, will a powerful company or more importantly a government agency be meaningfully punished and forced to desist? Never in a million years.
• sorwin 6y ago
  Why are actual privacy issues like this not covered by any media outlets? I'm tired of hearing about Trump all day.
• signal11 6y ago
  A reminder that increasingly intrusive ads are one part of the problem. The other, and potentially bigger, part is automatic content recognition (ACR), which has been covered on HN before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21899491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21899491 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21657930
  • Sjonny 6y ago
    Exactly this. I was surprised by the ads that they apparently shove down your throat but outraged by the fact that samsung knows what you watch. Most people that have a new TV will probably not even know this, only mentioned in some small letters in an eula that nobody reads. How is that even legal?
• matsemann 6y ago
  In EU I think a "consumer complaint/guarantee" would work (the law, not a warranty given by the producer). As in: the product is no longer working as advertised/expected, so I want my money back. For instance, when an older PlayStation (3?) in an update made it so that one could no longer run Linux (which was advertised as possible), I know of people that got to return it and get their money back after the Norwegian Consumer Council ruled against Sony.
  • fxtentacle 6y ago
    I concur. This is also likely the reason why Oculus stopped selling the Quest in some EU countries. Their planned EULA update will make it impossible to use the device without a Facebook account, which might make them legally liable to provide a refund in case anyone complains about it.
    • kalleboo 6y ago
      Also most likely violates the GDPR
  • kingbirdy 6y ago
    It would be nice if there was a right to get back the product you paid for (i.e. revert the adware update), rather than being forced to either accept the ads or return the product.
• pabs3 6y ago
  There used to be open source firmware for Samsung TVs called SamyGo, it would be great if it were ported to newer ones so the ads could be replaced with Kodi or similar. https://www.samygo.tv/ https://www.samygo.tv/
  • mercora 6y ago
    this is merely a modification of the original software on the TV which is achieved by gaining root access on it which is currently not easily possible on more recent models.
    • pabs3 6y ago
      I don't see any recent TV-specific CVEs for Samsung but it would be surprising if none exist. https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Samsung https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=Samsung
• kavi87 6y ago
  I am actively preventing anyone from buying from Samsung
• fxtentacle 6y ago
  ... and that's exactly why my TV will never have an internet connection. By now, it doesn't really matter which brand you use. I have analyzed Samsung, Sony, LG and Philips and ALL of them send data about your usage to NetEase in China and ALL of them have ToS that say that they might record your voice and store it for improving their AI or whatever. Plus all of them shove suggested apps in your face, so I'd say it is only a matter of time until all of them show more aggressive ads. But if you fully wipe it and then keep it fully offline, most TVs have a great screen and they can be configured with "gaming mode" to work like a low-latency HDMI / DisplayPort display. And without internet, there are not ads :) and no forced (useless) updates. BTW, my LG OLED is completely ad-free, defaults to using HDMI port 1 and even has GSYNC. Just connect any barebone with an NVIDIA card and you have 100% control over what you see.
  • fyfy18 6y ago
    How do you force WebOS to default to HDMI? I replaced my parents TV with a LG LED last year, and it defaults to showing "No signal found" when turned on, then you have to switch to HDMI.
    • m_eiman 6y ago
      If possible, make the device connected to HDMI turn on the TV via CEC, that should switch it to the correct input automatically.
      • fxtentacle 6y ago
        I believe this is what also happens for me. When I turn on the pc, the TV automatically switches to it.
    • wycy 6y ago
      I dealt with getting blasted with the "No signal" thing on my LG webOS TV for several months before finally figuring it out. I wish I could remember how and tell you, but I can't recall. But don't give up! It is possible. EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure if I got it to default to HDMI but I did definitely get it to show something other than no signal. Try using the picture frame feature (where it shows art in a picture frame). After so doing, I think it at least defaults to the picture frame. I also have a Roku connected that seems to be capable of telling the TV "hey switch to me", so sometimes I get the Roku HDMI and sometimes I get picture frame, but at least I never get No Signal anymore.
• daveKoala 6y ago
  We could invoice Samsung for our attention. It must have value as they are making money from it and it has value to me too
• impartial-word 6y ago
  I have a Samsung TV and the best decision I made was buying the Apple TV; right now I don’t care about the applications it has, the fact that Netflix has been removed for my model as it’s already 4 years old, etc. My next TV will be as dumb as possible as Smart-TVs are a pain in the ass and never as intelligent as an Apple TV or similar.
  • EtienneK 6y ago
    If you are able to find a good "dumb" TV, please let us know.
  • deergomoo 6y ago
    Unfortunately you will likely find that if you want anything towards the high-end, a dumb TV just won't be an option.
• aaron695 6y ago
  HN: Loves AR Every SciFi movie: The only use they can think of for AR is Ads
• mercora 6y ago
  i declined any agreement i could on a Samsung TV and it does not show those large banner ads to me but sometimes it shows some smaller ad near the source selection area. It looks like if you are paying enough you still get a spot there. Whats more it constantly installs some partner apps and puts them for quick start into the menu sometimes removing the applications i actually use from there in the process. I prefer using these apps for Netflix and co but every time i plugged it into the ether i feel like i should not and a fear of it getting even worse somehow.
  • deergomoo 6y ago
    Block samsungads.com and config.samsungads.com on your router, if you can. That will get rid of the small ad near the source list. Then, for the "Samsung Home" app that you can't move from spot number 1 that shows "Featured content" when you cursor over it, set up parental controls and lock access to that app. It will still be there, but it won't show anything when you navigate past it.
    • mercora 6y ago
      thanks for the tip but i will probably re-investigate using dnsmasq for whitelisting netflix and co using ipsets and nftables. it bothers me a bit having to set this up specifically for the TV but its probably worth it.
• solarkraft 6y ago
  I have a 7 series TV and it came with some arguably bloatware apps but I could remove them (from the menu, not uninstall them, which leaves me with not even a few mb to install Spotify). The one thing I can't get rid of is a stupid program guide I have to go over when going from sources to settings. That's it so far. I'm in Europe and disagreed with any data collection they asked about. Does it now even still do the ACR? Are they going to retroactively install me ads? Are there specific domain names one should block? Alternative firmwares?
• pm24601 6y ago
  makes me want to give up TV
  • martin_a 6y ago
    Thought about this, too. I only use my TV to watch YouTube or Amazon Prime through the PS4. But as I'm burning enough time on that (the first one) already on my phone, maybe I should buy/build in aquarium in that place, once the TV dies. Probably more relaxing in the end. And ads-free for sure!
• trulyrandom 6y ago
  This is an article from March. Has Samsung responded? Are ads still being shown?
• yholio 6y ago
  The life time of TVs is simply on a different time scale than most smart thingies you connect to them. It's an appliance like the air conditioner or dishwasher, not a gadget you throw into the bin and replace. The intelligence of your media center should be elsewhere, in a dedicated gadget that you can easily replace and upgrade, connected via a standard, dumb interface like HDMI. I own a 2012, 60" Sony Bravia and the picture quality is stil superb compared to recent models (except OLED). Its HD and not 4K, but it makes no difference, my eyesight is not getting any better and I might use it for the next 5 to 10 years probably. It's internet capabilities are laughable, pre-smart TV. Picked it up for 100 quid second hand, no doubt some idiot replaced it with a "smart" piece of junk with thinner frame, less durable LEDs, and now, good God, mandatory advertising.
  • tzs 6y ago
    I really wish the whole home theater was way more modular. I'd like separate boxes for video display, video signal switching, audio signal switching, stereo and surround sound decoding, speaker driving, OTA TV tuning, AM radio, FM radio. I want these boxes to all support a common control protocol, with another box or boxes handling controlling the system. My current system with a receiver that is 8 years old and a TV that is around 3 or 4 years old is fine, except for three things: (1) the receiver cannot handle 4K video, (2) the receiver does not work with any voice assistants, and (3) the TV does not work with any voice assistants. With a modular system, I'd just replace the video switching with a 4K switching box, and replace the control box with one that supports a voice assistant (or add another control box...no reason a module system has to have only one such box). With the current approach, I'd have to replace the receiver and the TV for that.
  • chadlavi 6y ago
    I've got a similarly aged pre-smart Samsung, sounds like it'll be with us for a while.
  • city41 6y ago
    I have a 1080p Vizio from about 2013 or so. It's "smart", but doesn't phone home or anything. I use a Roku to get more modern apps for it (I block Roku's phoning home in my pihole). I've considered upgrading to 4K many times. But I take comfort in knowing the TV I have now is not screwing me over. The thought of having to thoroughly research the TVs of today is enough for me to stick with it. Heck, my eyes probably can't see the 4K improvements from across the room anyway.
• thom 6y ago
  If I'm reasonably happy with Chromecast (not interested in litigating who spies on me most here), is there some setup I can achieve with just a large PC monitor and some HDMI jiggery pokery to hook up a sound system? I hate the thought of paying for all this gunk I never use, I really just need the panel.
  • mercora 6y ago
    this is probably a good use case for an AVR (audio video receiver). you can plug the chromecast and your monitor directly to the amp and let the AVR route signals appropriately.
• deleted 6y ago
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• donatj 6y ago
  I don't understand destroying your brand like this. Samsung from the early 2000s to ~2015 meant quality. Is it worth the short term gains from ad revenue over long term customer loyalty? I myself was a pretty loyal customer up until very recently when it came time to buy a TV and I specifically wanted one without ads ruining the experience. I'm reasonably certain this will make this many peoples last Samsung TV.
  • jiggawatts 6y ago
    It's absolutely certain. I'm in the market for new, high-end OLED or equivalent TV. There is no way in hell I'm ever buying a Samsung, under any circumstances, ever. Their corporate executives clearly have no ethics whatsoever. But that's not the only problem. My coworkers have been to Samsung's headquarters and worked on their core IT infrastructure. They both rattled off an endless horror show of security lapses and outright violations of common sense that would make your eyes pop out of your head. There is zero chance that your data is "safe" with Samsung. None. They will get hacked. They're almost certainly hacked already, and don't know it. Or they know it and simply don't care.
    • NationalPark 6y ago
      You're safe, Samsung doesn't even make OLED televisions! However all OLED TVs on the market do come with smart features and adware, so maybe not so safe after all.
      • jiggawatts 6y ago
        Hilariously, Samsung Display has just invested over $10B in new plants to make next-generation RGB OLED displays, but Samsung Vision -- the subsidiary that makes the actual televisions -- has spent so much money touting their QLED technology as superior to OLED that they don't want to use the panels made by Samsung Display. So I might end up buying a Samsung OLED panel, but not in the form of a Samsung Television.
  • thekyle 6y ago
    I bought a Samsung Galaxy phone and one thing I've noticed is that almost all the stock apps (Samsung Health, Samsung Music, Galaxy Store, etc.) have ads. Their apps are actually kinda nice, but the ads are a huge turn off.
• deleted 6y ago
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• teekert 6y ago
  Ok, bye bye Samsung!
• _br80_ 6y ago
  Is there any way to flash a Samsung TV with a custom firmware similar to RockBox? I hope it's only a matter of time.
• MisterTea 6y ago
  Sometimes I wish there was a suckless for everything. Gimme a boring TV with open firmware so I can flash it with Linux or better yet, no need for firmware, just a few video ports and a power switch. I'll feed it with my video signal of choice. Then a phone with stock android or ability to flash Linux or whatever with hardware kill switches because you cant trust anything electronic these days. Then I'll take a car with a steering wheel, two pedals and a double din opening on the dash and some HVAC topped off with a downloadable service manual right from the manufactures website please. I'm tired of feeling this technology anxiety where I'm supposed to just give up my rights and dignity and capitulate to the corporate gods. Go away already.
  • dastx 6y ago
    This is what I'm hoping for. All I want is a TV running Kodi. Combined with Plex and a freeview/freesat TV card and I'd be all set.
• thecopy 6y ago
  I bought a 4K Samsung The Frame. When i turned it on it requested that I agree to several agreements and it wanted me to connect it to the internet. I declined everything and hooked it up to my Apple TV. Super happy.
• nabla9 6y ago
  Common reaction for this is that Samsung made a stupid decision and they are losing money because of this. Supporting evidence is anecdotal, personal experience. I seriously doubt this is true. It's probably rational behaviour for Samsung to push this trend as far as it goes and then retreat a little if negative reaction shows in the bottom line. Or maybe limit the offending products to lower price category.
• rishabhd 6y ago
  That's why I opt for "non smart" TV's and then connect them with either a PS3/ PS4 to make them smart my own way. I get all the goodness of netflix and am not bothered by ads. Not to mention pihole is also configured as a local ad blocker in my network to keep those pesky ads out.
• plesiv 6y ago
  I "solved" this problem by having an Amazon Fire stick plugged in all the time and selecting it as the default input. Samsung's own menu shows in the tray at the bottom and Fire Stick's menu fills the rest of the screen. It's also super convenient because the selection of apps on Samsung's store is very limited.
• NietTim 6y ago
  I've wondered for a bit now: Why isn't jailbreaking TV's a bigger thing? I know there are a few projects, but it isn't nearly as widespread as XBMC was back in the day, for example. Then again, I don't have a TV for the exact reason listed in this article, I use a big monitor.
• deleted 6y ago
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• OnACoffeeBreak 6y ago
  I didn't see this mentioned, and some of the posts imply that there are not smart TVs without ads, but my TCL TV running Roku TV bought last year and connected to the Internet does not have any ads.
  • senorjazz 6y ago
    same, I have a samsung tv and use the smart features all the time (youtube) and have never seen an ad. :-s
• aronpye 6y ago
  I built my own router with a raspberry pi. I installed pi-hole and use that as a dns resolver. I then use an iptables rule to NAT / forward all dns traffic on port 53 to the pi-hole resolver, similar to how ISPs often intercept dns requests. This prevents IOT devices from bypassing the dns server configured via my DHCP. Letting pi-hole block the requests helps prevent errors from dns request timeouts. An additional benefit is that you get to log internet traffic and get shocked as you find out what your devices are really up to. To block ads that are served over whitelisted / not blocked domains I’d need some kind of deep packet inspection. I’m not sure this kind of filtering even exists / would work as a lot of the ad traffic I see is served over https.
  • chrisjc 6y ago
    Is there anything to stop devices from establishing a VPN connection? I imagine that would be the next logical step that device manufactures will go to to combat consumers setting up pi-holes.
    • aronpye 6y ago
      No, something that uses an encrypted tunnelling protocol like IPsec would hide its communications. You wouldn’t be able to spoof the server either due to IPsec’s authentication capabilities. You could stop the device from initiating a tunnel by blocking the appropriate ports and protocols. Although if I found out a device was going to these lengths and wasn’t open source, I don’t think I’d want it on my network.
• AznHisoka 6y ago
  Almost all Smart TVs have this type of ad in the home screen but the obtrusiveness varies. For my Roku Tv, it is a small banner on the left side that you can ignore easily and isn’t a huge deal. I bet it contributes very little revenue. For all of them, their main money maker is ads on free video content. Most of them have a channel/section filled with free tv shows/movies (usuaully b level content) and they make the majority of their revenue showing ads on this content.
• martin-adams 6y ago
  I won't be buying a Samsung TV again. I have tried so hard to disable any autoplaying TV channels/adverts when you turn the TV on as they have been inappropriate for my kids. I went as far as pin locking every single channel. But give it a few weeks and it'll start auto playing content when you turn it on.
• ptersilie 6y ago
  When I bought my LG TV a few years back it did the same. The ads were mostly for apps you can download on the LG app store (so no yoghurts or anything). But they were still annoying enough for me to look into the DNS queries the TV does and block some of them. In case it's useful for some of you, here's what I found out and ended up blocking: - vcfd1.giraffic.net, vcfd2.giraffic.net: adaptive Video acceleration (seems to be used for internet TV) - GB.lgtvsdp.com, ngfts.lge.com: don't know what this does. - GB.ibs.lgappstv.com: needed to download apps and updates - snu.lge.com: used to check for software updates? - lgtvonline.lge.com: likely for the TV recommendations feature that remembers what you watch and gives you recommendations based on it - GB.info.lgsmartad.com: ads - yahoo.com: no idea why the TV needs to talk to yahoo. Blocked. - facebook.com: why!? Blocked.
  • noisy_boy 6y ago
    > facebook.com: why!? Blocked. I'm shocked that you don't want facebook to know your viewing habits to show you more relevant ads. Its a feature to improve the ad experience for the users.
• TooCreative 6y ago
  Why still buy a "TV"? Why not just a monitor and attach some device to it that receives the TV signal and lets you switch channels etc?
  • patchtopic 6y ago
    find me a 55 inch monitor for $1000 AUD to use as my TV (with dedicated HTPC) and I'll be all over it..
• tyingq 6y ago
  Wow, and it seems it's built into flows like changing input. I happen to only use my tv as a single input HDMI display, using my Roku for everything. I suppose they could still force ads in that situation, but I assume they haven't yet.
• switch007 6y ago
  My friend's Samsung TV has Bluetooth permanently enabled, so every time a neighbour turns on a Bluetooth device, the TV asks if she'd like to connect to it. I'll never buy a Samsung device.
• torgian 6y ago
  What the fuck. You can't even get away from ads after _paying_ for a product.
• acvny 6y ago
  Wait for the ads in your dreams just like depicted in Futurama. Go ads go. But seriously as a solution try pihole.
• torgian 6y ago
  What happened to just buying a "normal" TV? No internet needed or anything? Seems dumb. Seeing this link has already made me to decide I actually won't buy a Samsung tv. I'll just get something else. If we truly go the road of the dodo, I'll just make a side business rewiring "smart" tvs.
  • vin047 6y ago
    Two issues, one is cost – TV's are expensive as is, so consumers don't want to spend extra to purchase a standalone set-top box right after spending a large amount. Second issue is that the average consumer wants smart TV's – they like that everything is integrated in the TV. Less remotes, less cabling etc. As someone who doesn't really use the "smarts" on my smart TV, I'd quite like a well engineered (hardware + software), privacy preserving, smart TV. I see the appeal of an all-integrated solution. But none exists; most of the time the software is either garbage, or runs as if it was meant to run on hardware a few generations in the future. And as for privacy... sadly, few on both sides of the market prioritise it :(
  • RandomBacon 6y ago
    Sceptre TVs are "normal" (aka "dumb") and even do 4K. Unfortunately they probably don't get the extra revenue from ads to be able to get placement in stores like Best Buy.
• paulus_magnus2 6y ago
  Can someone with 1st hand experience reassure me I would be able to use a commercial digital signage as a TV?? From what I learned so far the difficulties are: [please also correct me on these] - stand is not included (need to buy that separately / do a wall mount) - hard to find a seller - prices are higher than for equivalent consumer TVs - brightness is higher -> more power consumption - there is no antenna (terrestial DVB-T/T2, satellite input) so you have to drive content from USB or PC / Raspberry / xxxCast dongle The benefit is that you get a "dumb" panel with no spying, ads, software taking snapshots of what you watch. The TV is then also designed to last more hours - commercial panels are on 20h/day.
  • Kipters 6y ago
    This is rather interesting. My biggest doubt is how many HDMI inputs they have and if it's possible to easily switch between them. But I'll definitely look into this kind of devices when it's time for me to update my current TV. (And no antenna input means the Italian law doesn't consider it a TV, so I can avoid the TV tax)
    • joking 6y ago
      3 hdmi and a 1 displayport the one I have in front of me. It uses the same remote than the cheap domestic and hospitality ones.
  • troydavis 6y ago
    I looked in to this about a year ago and found that many digital sign models either (a) omitted relatively basic features like HDR, HDMI ARC, or CEC or (b) weren’t 10% or even 50% higher priced, but 200-300% more (compared to fairly high-end consumer models, not to the cheapest consumer model). Make sure they actually do what you want, even things that every consumer model has had for years. The situation may have improved in the last year. Also, I only looked at 82-85” models, so the situation may be better on smaller models.
    • paulus_magnus2 6y ago
• noisy_boy 6y ago
  Whats next? LineageOS for TVs? PineTV? There is a pattern emerging if its not clear by now - open software on open hardware is the only long term solution.
  • shellfishgene 6y ago
    Well there is SamyGO which let's you root and patch your Samsung TV, for SSH and other access, at least in older models. Not a firmware replacement but a step in the right direction ;)
• TheHypnotist 6y ago
  Are non-smart TV's still a thing? Smart TV's aren't necessary from a consumer standpoint.
  • ta8964586 6y ago
    Lots of companies have "digital signage" TVs built for business that don't have the consumer software. They are typically more expensive and optimized more for continuous usage (16hr/day 7days/week for samsung), but as of now I don't believe they get ads pushed to them. https://www.samsung.com/us/business/products/displays/4k-uhd/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/products/displays/4k-uhd...
• mark_l_watson 6y ago
  Our Samsung TV in our living room has been unplugged for about three months. I wanted to give it to charity and have new “plant friendly” shelves installed instead of the TV nook, still need to talk my wife into that. Before the great unplugging, I set the Internet connection on the TV to be to my iPhone. I almost never have my iPhone hotspot turned on, so I could do TV updates when needed, otherwise starve it for an Internet connection. BTW, no TV works for us because we stream to my wife’s large iPad Pro and she bought a fancy stand that can position the iPad anywhere in space. We site next to each other and place the iPad just under three feet away. We like this setup.
• logicOnly 6y ago
  Samsung has crappy products? I'm shocked /s Samsung is cut from the same cloth as Apple. Huge advertising budgets to get the sale. Abuse of customers after purchase.
• sasaf5 6y ago
  Don't buy a TV, buy a screen and connect it to your own media source. Preferably offline media. You can be a lot more deliberate about the content you consume and there won't be tracking (though there might still be ads in the media).
  • logicOnly 6y ago
    I read about these problems and they really only effect low information consumers. Anyone that researches can get a TV without ads for hundreds of dollars. I don't buy anything from Samsung, it sounds like a user issue. Samsung is notorious for being awful.
    • defnotashton2 6y ago
      Top panels all have these "features" honey.. You can get a shit panel without ads or smarts...
      • logicOnly 6y ago
        "Top" seems pretty arbitrary it seems. Reminds me of people who call iPhone a Top phone despite lacking features and quality. Price != performance
    • RandomBacon 6y ago
      > they really only effect low information consumers. I have a feeling that's about 95+% of consumers.
• loughnane 6y ago
  I switched over my router the other day and while I was debugging some minor issues I briefly had internet without Pi-Hole. I was stunned by the prominence and intrusiveness by the ads on my Roku, even with already knowing it calls home several times a minute. Once everything was back up and running things were back to normal. My setup is a dumb Spectre with a great screen with a Roku connected for Netflix and Plex/Jellyfin. Combined with a pi-hole it makes for a pretty clean experience.
• petargyurov 6y ago
  TVs have gone completely the opposite direction of what I dreamed of. On top of all these ads and snooping, there are so few TVs with a smooth, responsive UI. Seriously, even in top brands the UI chugs along at a snail's pace. And most of the time the UI design itself is terrible. Who cares about 8K if the UI takes 8 seconds to load.
  • BLKNSLVR 6y ago
    My "smart" TV takes a good seven or eight seconds to recognise that I'm madly trying to turn the volume down after turning the TV on because the last thing the kids watched was so quiet they had to turn the volume way up. Volume controls used to be instantaneous. Why the degradation of user experience alongside incredible progress in technology?
• seddin 6y ago
  This is why I've bought a TV with no internet access, when I want to watch something I just plug a Chromebook or whatever laptop I have via HDMI and watch whatever I want without no ads (thank you so much uBlock Origin devs).
• swypych 6y ago
  The problem I see with these companies, where HW is the focus and not SW, is that their tech stack is a joke. I have no faith in their security models, or their ability to protect my privacy. These features always feel like they have been just added on with little thought of the surrounding environment. Anyone who has developed a Tizen, LG webOS, Visio app, will understand what I am mean. The platforms have significant variations between model years, and developers are flat out told that features will not be fixed on 2-3 year old TVs. This seems insane considering the level of trust they ask from their customer. Buyer BEWARE!
• csilverman 6y ago
  I wonder how many people who buy TVs read reviews on them beforehand. I always do, and I wouldn’t consider any device that came with this garbage. I have a feeling this will last about as long as it takes for consumers to get a sense for what models come with ads. No one wants this on a device they already paid for.
  • p49k 6y ago
    These ads starting appearing on my TV two years after I bought it. There were no ads before that. No reviews mentioned ads. There is no way to disable them in settings. Yes I could disconnect it from the network but that would defeat one of the reasons I did buy it and which was mentioned in reviews: high-quality built in apps for Netflix and other services.
    • csilverman 6y ago
      That is insane. Obviously there’s nothing you can do to avoid something like that. I guess most of us were under the naive impression that, having paid for our televisions, we were entitled to use them in peace. I might still be naive, but my point was more that I’m having trouble imagining how the reputational damage to Samsung here wouldn’t, ultimately, impact sales. If I was thinking of buying a Samsung TV and my neighbor told me that his suddenly started throwing ads in his face, I’d never consider anything from Samsung. It might take a little time for the word to spread, but am I wrong in assuming this tactic will turn out to be disastrously unpopular with consumers?
• chadlavi 6y ago
  Who could have predicted that putting an android OS and an internet connection in a device that should only function as a display would have negative consequences? At this point, is it even possible to buy a high quality tv that isn't a smart tv? And will these smart TVs work properly if you keep them disconnected from the internet? (Side note: this is why TVs are so much cheaper now, isn't it?)
• everdrive 6y ago
  Definitely don't buy smart TVs. Is it still possible to buy a dumb TV these days? Who cares, Don't buy a smart TV. TV isn't all that great anyhow, it's mostly a bunch moralizing hidden behind a plot and some sarcasm. Leave it behind.
• cm2187 6y ago
  I am assuming that all TV reviews will assign 1 start to Samsung devices from now on. I wouldn't touch that shit.
• qwertox 6y ago
  I'm glad my TV isn't smart enough to display ads. Should I ever decide to buy a new TV (my current one is an old 32"), it should be as dumb as possible. Smart enough to react to a WOL packet, be remote-controllable via TCP and be happy to live blocked behind a firewall. I leave the intelligence to other devices which I connect to the TV.
• flerchin 6y ago
  Like probably most folks here, I block ads at the pihole, and rarely ever see them. I actually pay for YouTube so that they don't show my kids any ads when they're not on my network. I don't think I'm buying things based on ads, at all, but the adtech guys would surely disagree. I also find it hard to square the near universal loathing of ads with the draw of Times Square. I too enjoyed the lights of the ads.
  • beervirus 6y ago
    The ones in Times Square (probably) don’t spy on you (yet).
• bathtub365 6y ago
  I love my Samsung TV, I just don't let it connect to the Internet
• araker 6y ago
  This is exactly the reason why I keep my smart tv dumb. Never connected it to the internet, all playback is being done with a chromecast or mediaplayer.
• jwineinger 6y ago
  I recently purchased a Samsung Smart TV. I pretty much just plugged in our 4k Fire Stick TV and we use that, bypassing all of the built in stuff which was a bit confusing to navigate and had significant lag between button press and UI reaction.
• f6v 6y ago
  I wish there was an Apple TV, which is, you know, a TV.
• mensetmanusman 6y ago
  As much as Apple can be annoying for developers, at least they have been pro consumer in certain areas: -AppleTV will not do this, and likely never will -iPhones do not have ads all over them put in place by the carriers (I still can’t believe this happened)
• yummypaint 6y ago
  There really needs to be open source tv firmware
• 3guk 6y ago
  For those who use piHole or other network wide ad blocking, I've compiled a list of servers to block: https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Samsung_Telemetry_Servers https://factory-reset.com/wiki/Samsung_Telemetry_Servers
• nelaboras 6y ago
  New Sony Xperia 10 ii phone came for us with ads in the notification area, stemming from some pre-installed news app. Not to mention Spotify, Facebook, etc being preinstalled. Easy fux but really disappointing, next phone will be Fairphone or Swift phone so I don't support these big corps anymore.
• program 6y ago
  You can disable ads but the checkbox is deeply buried in the support menu page. Also the preference is reset every time Samsung update the T&C (more or less once a month). I added 6 Samsung domains to my Pi-Hole blacklist [1], domains that are queried dozens of times a day. [1] https://gist.github.com/zaerl/e3c24a9c21e5c15138e92a43ccd534da https://gist.github.com/zaerl/e3c24a9c21e5c15138e92a43ccd534...
  • leokennis 6y ago
    For lazier or less technically inclined people: https://NextDNS.io https://NextDNS.io. One click and no more ads: https://kennis.cc/public_uploads/d22bcaaf.jpeg https://kennis.cc/public_uploads/d22bcaaf.jpeg
    • deanclatworthy 6y ago
      Where exactly can you choose this through the desktop ui?
      • leokennis 6y ago
        It’s in the Privacy tab below the blacklists.
• rmtech 6y ago
  The core problem is that the companies that make these things are not being controlled by good regulation. 200 years ago it was probably legal for a food company to put a bit of cocaine in the food to make it more addictive. Nowadays I think you would go to jail for that. Similarly, if we ever make it to the year 2220, the act of making a product that forces users to view certain content or that spies on users will be something you go to jail for, not something that gets you a promotion. All the technical fixes that people are proposing (disconnect internet, pi hole, etc) are bandaid solutions and eventually the companies will bother to break those fixes. The company is a million times more powerful than any given individual and individuals are uncoordinated, so absent regulation the individuals will maximally lose the game - Black-Mirror-esque
• pmoriarty 6y ago
  Unsolicited advertising should be banned.
  • RandomBacon 6y ago
    Don't worry, they'll make sure you agreed to it on page 193 of the 365 page ToS that you didn't read but agreed to anyway when you turned the TV on the first time.
• kraig911 6y ago
  I'm one of the owners. I'm never buying a samsung anything again.
• CivBase 6y ago
  There are huge communities of awesome hackers who support build and support operating systems and firmware for phones and routers. Does anything like that exist for so-called "smart" TVs?
  • LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    There have been around 2010, Samygo and OpenLGtv have been mentioned elsewhere. But they are all bitrotten now, and not applicable to current models anyways.
• echelon 6y ago
  We can kill advertising. It may not work for the smart tv case, but I imagine a device or filter program that I can plug in that detects ads with a neutral network. It wouldn't turn off the ads, but instead transform them into unpleasant imagery that creates incredibly negative brand images. It would be designed to permanently subconsciously tarnish a brand. McDonald's human trafficking Nike genocide Spouse-beating Walmart Coca-cola rotten corpse I want to deploy this widely to destroy advertising. If ads got detected and replaced with images designed to embed and evoke negative reactions, advertisers would stop. We need something this drastic to fight back.
• FpUser 6y ago
  I can't even remember when was the last time I've used the actual TV. Whatever TV's I have all act as a monitors hooked up to computers and I do not let those "smart" things connect to the network at all.
• Kaze404 6y ago
  I've only ever bought one Samsung product. It's a smart TV presumably meant to be used for Steam Link purposes. When it arrived and I turned it on, I found out that not only the Steam Link app was not available for my model, but it also had no Bluetooth support for controllers (only for audio devices???). I double checked the product page and it very clearly shows, to this date, steam Link and controller support. Obviously their customer support team didn't care.
• tmaly 6y ago
  If I start seeing ads on my Samsung TV, I will donate the tv and never buy another Samsung product.
• jlj 6y ago
  I am looking for a small non-smart TV for a workout area in my home. My last TV purchase was around 2010. The options seem very limited. I may end up using a computer monitor with a streaming box and or a tv tumer card on an old computer. I already have a good OTA signal from an outdoor antenna that is used by the main TV in the house and can easily run a splitter. Any low cost recommendations?
  • jhloa2 6y ago
    Craigslist usually has a bunch of dumb TVs for dirt cheap or free
• joshuaheard 6y ago
  Tivo started running a commercial before watching a recorded show. Ads in the Comcast menu was one reason I switched to Tivo.
• DrJaws 6y ago
  they already put ads on their 1400€ phones, so this is not surprising. hopefully it ends badly for them on the long term
• nobodyandproud 6y ago
  Internet of things is a huge antipattern. I don’t remember where I read this, but a United Labs for information security is overdue. It won’t directly help with ad injection, but I think the security implications will put a damper on some of this (the cost of maintaining their firmware which Samsung barely does).
• JauntyHatAngle 6y ago
  This is why I continue to use a Chromecast rather than using the native smart tv functionality. Ill let my TV be a dumb TV that I can simply send a signal to.
• DLA 6y ago
  This is why I will never buy another Samsung. The stupid TV keeps pushing Facebook and CBS apps in the "most recently used" apps; mind you I've NEVER used either. I delete them from the list and within a day they are back. Samsung = screw the user.
  • deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
• umvi 6y ago
  Couldn't you just buy the TV but not let it connect to your WiFi? Then just use Chromecast/Roku/AppleTV/etc. to get internet to your TV.
• whalesalad 6y ago
  Turn off their onboard ethernet/wifi devices (delete your WPA key info etc...). My Samsung TV's are dumb as hell now <3
• blacklight 6y ago
  I've got a Samsung TV in a network with PiHole and the strictest blacklist rules. And I watch YouTube over Kodi. I've never seen a single ad on my smart TV.
• hevelvarik 6y ago
  I’ll hazard that this class of decision is entirely because enterprise success is determined by movement of the share price which requires continuous growth. It’s not enough to have a wildly successful product and a wildly successful company but constant growth is required to be seen as a success. That’s the only way I see a golden goose killing ux change making into one of the industry leading products in a cut throat ever changing sector. I’ll now browse the comments to see if any other plausible explanations have been presented.
• paulie_a 6y ago
  Samsung makes great hardware but shit software. From TV to tablets to laptops If it involves code it is going to be terrible for the customer.
• cbanek 6y ago
  First off, I hate ads, and I think hardware shouldn't have ads in it. But on the other hand, the argument "I paid all this money and I still get ads" is honestly something I've been hearing about cable companies for decades. In the end, if something can make money (as in, people will pay) that's sadly the way it will go.
• oWIJRwlirj 6y ago
  I'm quite happy not owning a TV
• jonny_eh 6y ago
  And TV reviewers will continue to gloss over this and focus on pointless test patterns.
• otcalex 6y ago
  I had to add ads.samsung.com to my block list on my router but it's made using the TV way nicer and a little faster
• akerro 6y ago
  Do you guys connect your TVs to internet? I know my TV has WiFi and Eth port, but I never thought about connecting it online, it's as useless as Euro Scart.
  • qppo 6y ago
    Yes. It would be highly inconvenient for me to connect it to my home PC which is in a different room, I don't want to buy or build a HTPC just to connect to Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime, I use my phone as a remote most of the time, and the tv wasn't too expensive. Not to mention, the ads on the home screen are less intrusive and far less numerous than on Comcast's cable box.
    • akerro 6y ago
      > Comcast's cable box. Isn't Comcast also a paid service? You (US) get ads in tv broadcast you pay for? I haven't seen any TV broadcast for over 10 years now, my TV has only chromecast and it only plays what I stream to it.
      • qppo 6y ago
        Yes, most cable television has ads. It's also more expensive than streaming services. But I'm talking about is in the menus for navigating the service with the remote. I tried cutting the cable two years ago and went back last year. Live sports isn't there yet.
• alienfilesystem 6y ago
  While it shouldn't even be a thing on a TV (ads) since I've paid for the TV, but Pi-hole kills this dead in its tracks.
• matty22 6y ago
  "I bought an internet-enabled ad delivery platform and put it in my living room. Why is it showing me advertising?!" Of course, it's showing you advertising, that's what the internet is for according to the advertising scum of the world. Maybe don't buy a 'smart' TV next time?
• qppo 6y ago
  I don't mind ads so much on my tv (it's a tv after all) as the notion that they will substantively change the quality and behavior of a device after point of sale with no means to revert or refund the purchase. At least when I subscribe to a SaaS and they roll out changes I dislike, I can choose to stop paying them and move to a competitor. Non security updates should always be opt-in.
• NewOrderNow 6y ago
  This is why I try to find dumb TVs though it is getting harder and harder to do that
• comeonseriously 6y ago
  As the article points out, Google is doing similar with Android TV. I'm not happy. I bought a Shield TV for a higher-end experience. I don't want ads on my home screen. I know, ToS, etc.. Bah! No excuse!
• youjustwait2030 6y ago
  You just wait a few year for ATSC 3.0(https://www.atsc.org/nextgen-tv/ https://www.atsc.org/nextgen-tv/) to get adopted and then you will see way more ads. The content you will see on the TV will be rendered like a webpage. Enter more data collection and more ads. Enjoy. :)
• neycoda 6y ago
  Maximizing profit is all about stretching people's tolerances up to the breaking point, making everything miserable for everyone except the few knucklehead's raking in the extra profits.
• j45 6y ago
  Ideally it should be better to hook up your own smart device to smart TVs because the smarts are always evolving, and TVs are generally behind anyways. Building apps into a TV is a really nice idea, but there has to be a better way.
• sanderjd 6y ago
  Was this straightforwardly disclosed to people before they bought these TVs? If not, a regulatory punishment and/or class action suit is in order.
• refracture 6y ago
  Bought a new Samsung TV. Connect ethernet cable. Update firmware. Disconnect ethernet cable. Connect Apple TV. The end. Smart TVs can go to hell. Arguably updating the firmware wasn't even worth doing but whatever.
• squarefoot 6y ago
  Simple slution: don't buy "Smart" TVs, And the day all TVs will be "Smart" just don't connect them to the Internet (and don't leave open hotspots nearby or they'll do by themselves). They're becoming business platforms rather than devices the user can control, just like "Smart" phones and computers with non free operating systems. Anyone remembers that TV screen in the wonderful Idiocracy docu... er.. movie? That is going to happen, soon or later. https://i2.wp.com/scifiinterfaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/IDIOCRACY-TV.png https://i2.wp.com/scifiinterfaces.com/wp-content/uploads/201...
  • LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Prrrrhhhhrrrrpft (splatter...) Excellent capture! Personally I'd wish for a "fan-edit" of that, melded with Wall-E :)
• aloer 6y ago
  I have recently bought my first ever TV. A samsung The Serif 2019. Last years model because cheap. Amazing picture. Nice design. Absolutely shitty software - This thing has an anti virus scanner installed - There is a task manager that shows you the current cpu and memory consumption - Disabling automatic brightness adaption requires you to enter the debug menu which you can only enter via a normal remote and not the included smart remote (which costs 50 to replace and does not have any number keys!). So I had to buy one off amazon. If you don’t do that you _will_ notice annoying brightness changes. - Oh and also disable everything with auto or smart in the picture settings I bought an AppleTV even before the Samsung arrived. Worth it. And friends don’t let friends connect their TVs to WiFi Pro tip: if your work uses TVs in meeting rooms and the font looks weird, adjust the sharpness. After I found that out everything in previous meeting rooms made sense. When you unbox a normal TV for computer use you gotta turn down the sharpness and nobody does
• deleted 6y ago
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• failuser 6y ago
  I wish that it’s just a step in the master plan to market plain old dumb TVs. Too bad it won’t really happen, the best outcome would be a few more pi-holes or similar devices installed.
• Phillips126 6y ago
  I purchased a Samsung TV about two years ago for $1,200. It was my first 4K TV and I loved it. I made the purchase around the same time I dropped my cable subscription, I just couldn't stand the advertisements anymore. The panel was thin (with almost no bezels), the picture quality was superb and I was sold on the "Smart TV" features like having built in access to Netflix, etc. For a while it was great, then I noticed the ads showing up on the bottom left of the bottom menu. Now my TV is as slow as molasses and I hate it. Picture quality is still good, but Samsung ruined it with their software. I refuse to purchase another Samsung TV which really frustrates me because I love their panels. I'm currently looking to disable the internet on it and use a Fire Stick, Roku, or other. Anyone have any suggestions?
  • victor9000 6y ago
    You could try using a pi-hole as your DNS server on your local network to block ads across all connected devices. https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/
    • lhenk 6y ago
      reminds me of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23074827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23074827
    • lightswitch05 6y ago
      The pihole is nice, but isn’t a silver bullet. I have a roku tv, I hate it, but I think I hate it less then I would hate another smart tv like Samsung or LG. No cameras or built in microphone- although the remote does have a microphone, but I imagine it would kill the batteries quickly if it was listening when it’s not supposed to. Anyways, to add some context, the roku has ads too, the external roku devices do too. The fire sticks also have ads. I run a little hosts blocklist project [0] and recently had a interesting ticket about blocking the roku ads [1]. What it boiled down to is blocking a couple more domains and setting up your home firewall to prevent the TV from bypassing your pihole and talking directly with 8.8.8.8. Given DoH, who knows how long this option will be viable. I don’t watch TV, but my next big Entertainment purchase will probably be an Apple TV and I’ll remove the TV from the network completely. There are no open wifi connections in my area, so not too worried about it connecting to another network. [0] https://www.github.developerdan.com/hosts/ https://www.github.developerdan.com/hosts/ [1] https://github.com/lightswitch05/hosts/issues/230 https://github.com/lightswitch05/hosts/issues/230
• mancerayder 6y ago
  My Samsung is getting long in the tooth. What's a good competitor that doesn't do this? Sony?
• projektfu 6y ago
  Weird. I've got a Samsung QLED 4k TV (Q60) and I've never seen an ad. I suppose I'll keep my eyes open.
• subsubzero 6y ago
  And this is why I will never get a samsung TV again. When in the market for a new TV, I wanted a OLED and the salesperson kept pointing me towards samsung and its offerings saying they are superior to everyone else. As I had come from a Samsung and started to get ads popping up that I could not disable I realized this was a brand I needed to avoid like the plague. I ended up with a LG and have been enjoying the TV with no pop ups. As a side note, they do not make a "dumb" TV anymore. I feel like this is a huge market opportunity for a manufacturer to make one as I and many others would be very interested in one. I don't want google play or any tracking crapware on my TV and can gate these things with either apple TV or Roku/media server.
• lykr0n 6y ago
  Samsung is forever on my Shit list. They inject ads into their computers, tablets, smartphones, and TVs. I'm happy with my LG TV, which the only "ads" they have are: - Highlighting new "TV Channels" which is ... acceptable. I don't know why anyone would want/care about the Hyundai TV channel - installing Disney+ automatically
• partiallypro 6y ago
  One of the reasons I avoided as hard as I could getting a "SmartTV" and went for a standard LED display. Those are getting harder and harder to come by though.
• cs702 6y ago
  Without harsh government rules to prevent this kind of insidious behavior, this sort of thing is... inevitable.
• deadgrey19 6y ago
  Exactly this happened to me. We bought the TV and for years things were great. Really loved the functionality of the smart TV. Being able to stream YouTube at a moments notice was great. But then the adverts started. We paid $3000 for this TV. Not a low end “ad-supported tv” The only way to “opt out” is to disable the “smart” TV function which I have done. Any smarts now comes from my Apple TV which does not thrust averts in my face. Needless to say, my last Samsung purchase ever.
• sbmthakur 6y ago
  Has anyone tried to block these with PiHole? I have a PiHole running but I don't own a Smart TV, so not sure how it will work out.
• ksec 6y ago
  This is the Best opportunity to gather support to push Apple to make a proper TV set. One that value privacy, and something I have been advocating for years. ( And hopefully a return of Airport Express as well )
• Animats 6y ago
  Do they use facial recognition yet? Recognizing who's seen which ad, what they watch, and their age and gender should be useful.
• karmakaze 6y ago
  I've found that I prefer LG products over Samsung. I've had a number of LG phones and monitors that get down to business without too many bells, whistles, and other extras of questionable value. Samsung phones tend to be more 'customized'. I don't have specific/recent experience with either brands' TVs but seems to be in line with expectations.
• markbnj 6y ago
  None of our monitors are connected to the Internet. We use them as dumb hdmi displays and that's it, for this and a lot of other reasons. On a side note, I'm just generally growing very dissatisfied with Samsung's business practices, and we've been pretty good customers of theirs. We have a Samsung fridge, and Samsung washer/dryer combo (all three of which are excellent products tbh). I'm on my fourth or fifth Samsung phone, but after several years of them trying to shove Bixby down my gullet along with a bunch of other stuff I don't want I think it will be my last.
• mbrumlow 6y ago
  Side note. I own a fairly recent Samsung TV. I pay for Google Priemium so I can let my kid watch some shows from time to time. Pepa pig and what not. The issue is the built in youtube app constantly had to be logged out and back in. Otherwise advertisements start to show. Sometimes as often as wcey 4 minutes. And they are the worst sorts of advertisements geared to kids to ask parents to buy pointless plastic shit. I am failey sure this bug is not being fixed because it would lower somebodiws revenue, or metric.
• donor20 6y ago
  I know folks will totally TRASH apple if they did a walled garden TV - but for some of us we'd probably pay the extra just not to have to deal with / worry about the random scammers doing things like this. And I call this a scam when you spend this amount of money and the box doesn't have in bold letters (popover ads!).
• dmos62 6y ago
  With small HDMI capable media boxes (e.g. rpi, chromecast) becoming increasingly available, it's time for TVs to die and dumb monitors to take their place. Like PC monitors, but not designed for the desk.
• lumberingjack 6y ago
  My Samsung phone has been doing stuff like this lately too accidentally hit the bixby button all the sudden you're in and dated with Samsung store apps asking you to rate them like use the calculator that's built in "please rate this on the Samsung store"
• anon776 6y ago
  I setup a pi-hole on a pi4 a few months ago, then made my router announce it as the primary DNS server for my house. So far, my samsung TV and peloton bike are the most blocked clients in the house.
• throw03172019 6y ago
  Here is how to fix it: disable wifi on your Samsung “Smart” TV and buy an Apple TV, etc. no more ads. No more laggy Samsung UI.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• beloch 6y ago
  I bought one of these TV's without realizing it would serve ads. It was a high end model that cost enough that I had no reasonable expectation that Samsung would try to make an additional 10 bucks off of me by showing me ads, but here we are. The good news is you can block the ads. Here are some domains I've blocked in my router. They might not all be necessary to block, but they don't seem to break anything else (except perhaps Disney+) and they do stop the ads from appearing. (Note: The only ad I was seeing was an additional ad box that was inserted as one of the sources on the source selector. It was only an issue if you were going from display to the TV's settings because it had inserted itself in between the two, and you could accidentally click on it. Blocking the following domains got rid of This.) samsungads.com ads.samsung.com www.samsungotn.net www.samsungrm.net gpm.samsungqbe.com samsungacr.com samsungcloudsolution.com samsungcloudsolution.net samsungotn.net The bad news is that the Disney+ app may not function properly if you block these domains. The obvious workaround is to use Disney+ from a browser, but that produces surprising results with this TV. Certain video sources, such as Disney+ or the trailers on IMDB, cause my Samsung TV to flash the following message: "We are adjusting the picture quality for you to experience a better uhd screen. You can change the settings in Settings > General > External Device Manager > HDMI UHD color" The screen then goes black and the only way to restore function is to unplug the HDMI cable and plug it back in. Very annoying. The message describes settings that exist in the TV's configuration exactly as described, so it's definitely an error message produced by the TV set. Unfortunately, the settings referenced do nothing to eliminate this bug. I've contacted Samsung's tech support a couple of times and they're utterly clueless about this issue. (Note: Not many people may report this error message because if flashes so fast that you need to photograph the screen in order to read it, and you have to have fast reflexes to do even that!) All in all, despite the quality of the screen, these unresolved issues mean I will probably not buy another Samsung TV and recommend that others avoid this brand as well.
• dawnerd 6y ago
  This is also why I refuse to use any Samsung product if I can avoid it. I was an early adopter of 4K and their tvs at the time were very expensive. Those tvs ended up getting ads patched in - and even if you "opted out" of the yahoo agreement they still found ways to advertise by using the system notifications to push gamespot. Of course Samsung denied it which was the final straw for me. Plus all of their fridges have a known issue they refuse to fix (there's a class action lawsuit over it). It's kinda sad that people are just now noticing how bad the ads are. They were bad back 6+ years ago - especially when they tried to sneak ads into videos played back from plex.
• blahyawnblah 6y ago
  Block your TV's mac address in your router
• termau 6y ago
  Find IP address is connecting to for the ad server, and block it at the router? Its a sad fucking world when I have to suggest this - I flat out wouldn't buy a tv with adware but yeah should work.
• wooptoo 6y ago
  One way to handle this is to get a privacy-oriented DNS service like NextDNS[1] which can block ads and trackers. Then put that in your TV's networks settings. My Samsung smart TV tries to send out a lot of these requests back to the mothership: https://i.imgur.com/wCMrI3B.png https://i.imgur.com/wCMrI3B.png but the service blocks them. [1]NextDNS https://nextdns.io/?from=rj4b2nfn https://nextdns.io/?from=rj4b2nfn
• systemBuilder 6y ago
  20 years ago I predicted that advertisers would get a lot passed that made your front door a billboard owned by the city so they could put all the ads they wanted on your front door. I was just a few years too early!
• werber 6y ago
  I couldn’t even tell you what brand my dumb 4k TV is, but i have it hooked up to my old Mac with a wireless keyboard and I’m very happy. I do not understand the appeal of a television who also controls content. Maybe I’m old school but this article confirmed my gut reaction to the concept
• sizzle 6y ago
  This is why I'll never use another Samsung product again after putting up the their antics on their galaxy line of phones.
• xtat 6y ago
  class action pls
• unfocused 6y ago
  At my work, I'm responsible for the procurement of IT equipment, and for our boardrooms, we only buy "digital signage" televisions. Essentially, dumb TVs because we don't want any of our data to leave our building. https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/professional-displays/ https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/profession... It's pricier, e.g. 55" 4k is $3000 CAD, but worth the privacy. We actually got some large ones at a discount because they were all 1080p, and for meeting rooms, nobody needs Powerpoint or Word in 4K, so it was perfect. Just a thought if anyone is looking for good quality TV sets. I also think the limited warranty starts at 3 years.
• pnw_hazor 6y ago
  Keeping my dumb 1080p 60" plasma LG forever. Basic cable box (used rarely), roku, and PS4 provide plenty of "smarts" for me.
• cabalamat 6y ago
  I've never bought a "smart" TV, and i never will. It's not smart to buy "smart" appliances, since any intelligence they have will work towards the interests of the companies that made them, not the purchasor.