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Tesla Model Y overtakes Corolla to be world’s best-selling car in 2023
- sublinear 3y agoI'd still much more gladly prefer the Toyota.
- diebeforei485 3y agoCongratulations to the Tesla team!
- givemeethekeys 3y ago[flagged]
- giraffe_lady 3y agolooks like a 15 year old boy designed it in 2006
- Analemma_ 3y agoI mean, I think the Model Y is ugly, but I don't think this is anything specific to Tesla. All crossover SUVs are ass-ugly and I don't think it's possible to make one which isn't, but that hasn't stopped them from selling like hotcakes.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nickthegreek 3y agoI don’t know, I really enjoy the body style on my 2017 Tiguan.
- DANmode 3y agoThe exact same thing that brought Prius to popularity.
- givemeethekeys 3y agoThe more popular 2nd gen Priuses aren't THAT ugly :). Alright, thats a fair point.
- vkou 3y agoThey were very intentionally weird, not ugly.
- DANmode 3y agoThey were intentionally brutally economic, aero over design where design would have cut into functionality. This translated into a car with the aesthetics of a pregnant whale that someone smashed into the ground. In fairness.
- m463 3y agoI think the true "intentionally weird" design crowns go to the "compliance cars" that automakers came out with. I think of the honda insight and all fuel-cell cars. My theory is that it was to limit sales. Also it was so that any sales go to "true believers" with breathless enthusiasm for the tech.
- DANmode 3y agoChevy Volt v1
- m463 3y agoThe only glaringly ugly tesla thing I've seen are the plastic wheel covers on the base model 3. I think the y base wheels are better, and the 20" wheels are nice.
- basisword 3y agoI don’t get this to be honest. Had a couple of experiences as a passenger and now I actively avoid them (on Uber). The ride is absolutely awful. So rigid. Every bump on the road is felt, to the point I felt nauseated. They’re spacious, and maybe they’re nice to drive? But if I bought this without test driving it first, I would return it.
- ajross 3y agoI bought one and it's the most fun I've had in a vehicle in my almost four decades of driving. Not going to tell you what to like, but your opinions are definitely an outlier.
- globular-toast 3y agoPeople buy stuff because of the brand. Literally nothing else matters for a large section of the market.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoLatest suspension is really good. We have one, would never sell it. Upgraded the suspension myself from 2021 build to the latest rev for $600. Edit: Ref: https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/12c49ir/_/jf2kqd6 https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/12c49ir/_/jf2k... Have Tesla Service confirm parts to your VIN/vehicle model (LR vs Performance).
- cco 3y agoHow'd you do that if you don't mind me asking? Is there a kit?
- xenadu02 3y agoSome people (like myself) prefer a sporty ride. They're really fun to drive. I own one and don't regret it. Obviously no car will appeal to everyone but clearly Tesla has a market despite the nay-sayers. edit: The purchase experience beats traditional car makers hands down. No high pressure sales tactics or scams like rust preventer. Nay-sayers also under-rate Tesla's mobile service. Go into the app, create a ticket, attach pictures. Get an estimate within hours (sometimes minutes). Accept, schedule. Tech comes to your house with all the parts and tools. Super easy. Not much to maintain... motor coolant (ATF), coolant system, etc are lifetime sealed. Brakes last forever thanks to regen. Basically replace air filters every 3-4 years and tires per normal... which can also be done by mobile service.
- jacurtis 3y agoI've heard some auto analysts suggesting that Tesla's trick to drop their car prices was not necessarily an act of desperation, as much as an action of opportunity. While all other car manufacturers are upping prices and increasing lead times, Tesla is taking advantage of this by having vehicles available and lowering prices in order to gain market-share in a time when other manufacturers are expecting and preparing for slower sales. If that was the strategy, then it looks like it is working exactly as planned.
- miohtama 3y agoAlso Ford, And likely others, are selling their EVs for loss https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000-for-every-electric-vehicle-sold https://www.thestreet.com/technology/ford-loses-nearly-60000... Of course this may change with the economics of scale, but looks like the scale is not there yet.
- gnicholas 3y agoTo the extent that EVs last longer with very low maintenance costs, people will likely keep them even longer than they would keep other cars. And if Tesla can accelerate purchases of people who are considering getting an EV, they can drain the pool of potential EV buyers before other manufacturers are fully up and running. As a result, other manufacturers will have to anticipate lower sales numbers, which means they would set higher prices (because much of the cost is in tooling and other fixed costs of production). It could create a nasty situation for other manufacturers, especially those that are not large enough spread the costs of EV manufacturing across other successful product lines.
- k8sToGo 3y agoI am not considering them because they keep taking away more and more (hardware) features over the years. No parking sensors is an instant no buy for me. Already had horrible experiences with their vision based wiper automation.
- kbos87 3y agoAgree that vision based wipers are meh. I think it has something to do with the position of the front facing cameras behind the windshield; water seems to just hit that spot differently vs where you look out. My experience with the vision based parking system so far has been great though. The experience is pretty much the same in the vehicle as it was with ultrasonic sensors. There is also a pile of YouTube videos where you can see people testing weird scenarios and checking the on-screen distance from objects with a tape measure. It’s pretty solid.
- atleastoptimal 3y ago[flagged]
- addisonl 3y agoYes, as everyone knows only the CEO contributes to a company's success!
- tempfortwitt90 3y agoNo shortage of companies with terrible employees that do well via a good executive team (Walmart?). Very few companies with good employees could survive terrible direction from leadership.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jacurtis 3y agoEspecially interesting that the company started succeeding during the time period that he was off playing with Twitter and running that toy into the ground.
- redox99 3y agoThat's obviously not true if you look at the deliveries per quarter chart.
- xnx 3y agoSeems a big part of this is Tesla's minimal and globally available product line (which I commend them for). Other automakers produce a huge number of variants within and between markets. That dilutes the sales of any single model.
- somethoughts 3y agoYes this I think is the key difference - perhaps its a strategic move or perhaps some other reason (i.e. low relative volume) but the fact that most other automakers have upwards of 25+ SKUs versus 4 SKUs for Tesla. In fact for Toyota there are some 15+ Toyota SKUs and 15+ Lexus SKUs - ranging in price from the Corolla (compact) to the Sienna (minivan) to the BRZ (youth sports car) to the BZ4X (CUV EV) to the LS500 (executive sedan) to the Landcruiser (guerrilla infantry vehicle).
- bryanlarsen 3y agoFor other car-makers they are bundling multiple SKU's. For example, the second place finisher is the Toyota Corolla/Levin/Allion/Lingshang which are all basically but not quite the same car.
- terminatornet 3y ago> There were 400 NTHSA recalls issued in 2022, impacting more than 25 million vehicles. Of those vehicles, Teslas scored four of the top five spots on the list, according to the price-tracking car search engine iSeeCars.com teslas are also expected to have the highest number of recalls over a 30 year lifetime https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/ https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-...
- sowbug 3y agoMost Tesla recalls are applied in owner driveways, while the owners are asleep, because they're software.
- synaesthesisx 3y agoI bought one of these and love it - it’s the best vehicle I have ever owned. The supercharger network eliminates any range anxiety or dealing with slow or barely functional chargers. Yes, the spartan interior leaves a bit to be desired, but where it lacks in physical qualities it makes up for in continuously improving software & UX. The experience of using it is a joy daily, simply put (and I’ve owned other EV’s previously). I will be getting a Model X next.
- tptacek 3y agoThis is largely due to China, right? It doesn't appear that Tesla is even close to this title in the US market.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoProbably Norway and other places where government subsidies make it an easy decision to get a Tesla because it's affordable. The majority of US automotive buyers can't afford a basic model 3.
- cloudwalking 3y agoModel 3 is available new for less than the average US vehicle price https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/tesla-model-3-sells-5000-less-average-us-new-car-price-cuts/ https://fortune.com/2023/02/21/tesla-model-3-sells-5000-less...
- kcb 3y ago> The majority of US automotive buyers can't afford a basic model 3. You say that in a country where three at least $40k+ full size pickups are the best selling models.
- 1letterunixname 3y agoI'm not a fan of the S because it's too big. The gull doors on the X are awkward. The 3 is quite nice. The problem I have with Teslas is R2R DRM. They're also still unaffordable in the US, which doesn't advance the elimination of ICEs.
- wisnoskij 3y agoWhat is this article even talking about. I don't have to know a single thing about cars or their economics to know clearly some Chinese or Indian brand I have never heard of and could not pronounce if I had is outselling the Tesla by 1000 fold. I cannot even imagine how cheap you could make a car without all of our regulations, its probably like $250.
- woooooo 3y agoI think your cheapo Chinese/Indian EV is most likely classed as motorcycle.
- wisnoskij 3y agoWhile the motorcycle brand probably outsells the car brand by 1000x, the Indian/chineses market is big enough to also have a car model that sells millions upon millions of units.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoThe Wuling Mini is the best selling car in China in 2022, selling a half million cars to the model Y's 300,000. In Q1 2023, the model Y outsold the Wuling Mini. BYD handily outsells Tesla in China, but it is split among something like 40 different models vs Tesla's 4.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoWhoa. The Wuling mini is like 4,800 USD to 4,400 USD, while the Model Y is $48,447. That Tesla is selling only 300k Model Y's vs 500k Wuling Minis is actually pretty good. I've ridden in a BYD EV taxi before back in 2016, I haven't lived in China since then. It was OK. BYD should have a larger market share than Tesla in China, it would be weird otherwise.
- dingusdew 3y ago[dead]
- cheeze 3y agoAs a cyclist, there isn't any car on the road that scares me more than these. The drivers are worse than aggressive truck drivers. Given that it's the best selling car, maybe it's just that people are generally horrible at driving? At least in my area the drivers of these seem an order of magnitude more clueless than any others.
- artursapek 3y agoit’s because Tesla drivers know the AI will save them from making any mistakes /s
- anonporridge 3y agoI have heard second hand accounts from friends who have been hit by Teslas whose drivers tried to claim innocence because they were convinced their car would definitely have told them if they hit something and it didn't.
- jdminhbg 3y agoI have also heard urban legends.
- jackmott42 3y agoAs a cyclist, I haven't noticed anything like that. I suspect some internal bias towards EVs or against Elon or something is making you notice a pattern that isn't there.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- skellington 3y agoTesla drivers statistically have significantly less accidents than other vehicles. So, by the data, they can't be worse than other drivers.
- bradknowles 3y agoThe more drivers you get in a particular model, the more clueless drivers you'll see in that model. It's a form of survivor bias.
- georgeburdell 3y agoNo, white Tesla Model Y/3 (the paint color that doesn’t cost extra) seem to occupy the same jerk driver niche that the BMW 3-series used to own. Lots of young, single men stretching their wallets for one.
- drc500free 3y agoTotally agreed, in the last 5 years or so it feels like mediocre drivers have switched from white entry-level BMW drivers to white Teslas. It's definitely hit the mass market of somewhat-well-off people rather than just tech bros who like the technology.
- dazc 3y agoWe must be a few years behind you in the UK since the white Audi reigns supreme with these kind of people.
- wilg 3y agoI’m here to point out white is the safest color for a car.
- llsf 3y agoI own a white model 3, I am not young or single, but I see how it could be judged that way. Well, I wish you could try one and enjoy the ride, because it is a well made vehicle, regardless of the clichés attached to the car.
- georgeburdell 3y agoI didn’t drive a 3, but I have done so for a Y. Didn’t like the lack of buttons that’s dressed up as futuristic but is really a UX hostile cost savings choice. Ended up buying a new CRV hybrid for 2/3 of the price, with actual AC and radio buttons (this year is redesigned and is a bit larger than the previous generation)
- andrewmcwatters 3y agoFor people buying new cars, yeah I guess I understand that being true. America prefers SUVs, but it's an interesting statistic. The Corolla is purchased by those who want an affordable sedan, as well as the affluent who don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla and are putting their money in other things like their home and marketable securities. The Ford F-150 is a vehicle used widely by commercial organizations as well as American retail consumers who can afford one. All of this leads me to think if you want to know what popular vehicle sales really are, I suspect you have to look at the used car market and normalize by model, removing years or generations to understand what the average consumer is really buying.
- justrealist 3y ago> don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions. EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car. If you hate Tesla that's a completely valid opinion, but don't pretend that people are buying Teslas just to spite themselves... the user experience is, for the vast majority of people, simply great.
- jerrysievert 3y agohuh, I read that in a completely different way than you. my brain inserted an Oxford comma: > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla became > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car, or a Tesla since the addition of the article "a" seemed to change the meaning. had it been > don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or Tesla it would have conveyed even different meaning to me. I'm kind of curious what the GP's post actually meant at this point.
- cshimmin 3y agoThat's not what an Oxford comma is, FYI. I think GGPs interpretation is grammatically correct but I agree that the phrasing is ambiguous. But given Tesla's documented unreliability one can assume what they meant...
- ChatGTP 3y agoImagine if Toyota would've just made a simple, but nicely build electric car 3-5 years ago. Pretty foolish mistake.
- anonporridge 3y agoBut hydrogen cars are the future! /s
- _hypx 3y agoHydrogen cars are the future. This is just another fad green movement in the car industry.
- umeshunni 3y agoThey had a 10 year head start on EVs (well, Hybrids), with the Prius and blew it. Worse: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/toyota-bet-wrong-on-evs-so-now-its-lobbying-to-slow-the-transition/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/07/toyota-bet-wrong-on-evs...
- adgjlsfhk1 3y agothe Prius prime is a legitimately pretty great hybrid, but it took them a shocking long time to get there.
- _hypx 3y agoThe ability to go fast does not make it a good cars. In fact, this is mistake that many US carmakers made. As Toyota focused on reliability, their faster competitors ultimately ended up being abandoned since nothing turns away customers like a dead car.
- borissk 3y agoA hybrid car is a very complicated machine - more so than an EV, a turbo petrol or a diesel.
- newaccount74 3y agoSince other car makers are trying to cover the market by diversifying their model lineup, this is hardly surprising. I mean, just take BMW, despite seemingly not taking EVs seriously at first, they already have more different EV models to choose from than Tesla. So even if BMW would overtake Tesla in total EV sales, the Model Y would probably still get to keep the "best selling car" title...
- sixQuarks 3y agoI was wondering how HN was going to spin this. The problem with this argument is that the Model Y by itself outsold the entire BMW electric lineup combined. In fact, 4 times the entire combined amount.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y agoThis is goalpost-shifting from the title, which doesn’t limit the comparison to electric cars.
- croes 3y agoMaybe because the typical BMW customer prefers combustion engines. Look at the overall sales not just EV
- vardump 3y agoTesla sold 1,247,146 cars in 2022. This year somewhere between 1.6M - 2.0M. Last year BMW sold about 2.4M cars, so Tesla is quickly catching up in terms of numbers.
- fomine3 3y agoIt's better to just compare brand-to-brand EV sales, rather than per model. Only Tesla can sell same model so much. I wonder will people finally bored with too many same Tesla running on the road, and Tesla start expanding their lineup like Volkswagen, or people accept it like iPhone (have a dressing case like iPhone?).
- danielmarkbruce 3y agoHalf of it is the buying process.
- mikeryan 3y agoYou're being downvoted but I'm not sure you're entirely wrong. I'm currently buying a Rivian Truck, pricing is straightforward and I could be buying a T-Shirt on a Shopify site. Simple, I know the price and the experience, while not always easy, has been straightforward. My wife has suddenly needed a new car and leans towards a Mercedes or Audi EV and we're suddenly slammed back into going onto a lot and dealing with the normal car sales bullshit and it's a nuisance. Just test driving a car (which is a fairly significant thing for someone who's not driven an EV) is a high pressure situation.
- colordrops 3y agoCar dealers really have no leverage. You can walk out at any time up until signing the paperwork, and just go to another dealer.
- xputer 3y agoYes but their job is literally to manipulate you into buying a car then and there. They play all sorts of dirty tricks to get there.
- colordrops 3y agoFor sure, so you just gotta be that tree that bends but doesn't break with the wind. Always keep a mental and emotional distance and be ready to walk at any moment.
- jmcphers 3y agoI was in the EV market recently and managed to test drive an Audi E-Tron. I'll probably never forget how casually the salesman told me that they were marking them up $5K over MRSP and still had a 10 month waitlist. I walked out of there pretty quick. Who's putting up with this?!
- mikeryan 3y agoOne thing that EV's have an advantage of is the reduced footprint of their drivetrain. The primary bulk of an EV is the massive battery that usually spans the bottom of the car opening up space in the interior or the ubiquitous EV "frunk" this makes for a more spacious interior and the Y takes advantage of this well. That being said it seems that 2023 is the year of the EV, my family is currently in the market for a new car and have been pleasantly surprised at the breadth of offerings. I can't really make up my mind on whether the fact that the model Y is the "best selling model of car" is something to hang your hat on these days. It's a great metric, sure, but it's been in a somewhat limited market. On it's face I can see it's appeal - size, space, EV, extra seating - its NOT A MINIVAN. But it seems like a fairly easy moat to breach. One thing about the Corolla was it's build quality was top notch it was a solid, reliable car and it seems more and more lately this isn't a hallmark of Tesla. I wouldn't be surprised for the model Y to keep the mantle of "best selling model" - particularly because of Tesla's lead in its ability to manufacture electric cars and the surface appeal of the model Y - but I wouldn't be surprised if it lost this lead as well.
- nine_k 3y agoThis is reasonable. OTOH a really mass-produced car means that its production becomes optimized, quirks eventually fixed, rough edges polished, etc. With model Y, Tesla has a chance to polish the design and the production process and make the car reliable and of stable quality. They of course can squander that chance, but they never had such a chance before at all, to my mind.
- viraptor 3y agoIt's not a huge difference to other manufacturers - the idea of putting different things on a common chassis and iterating that one slowly was happening for a while. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_platform https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_platform
- resolutebat 3y agoIf you're in the market, go for a couple of test drives. The competition is mostly regular ICE cars with a battery bolted on, while Teslas are designed from ground up as EVs and it shows throughout in ways big and small. We were originally leaning towards getting a Polestar, but the difference between driving one and a Tesla is night and day.
- Animats 3y agoIt's encouraging to note that most model Y cars ("standard range") use lithium iron phosphate batteries, which have far fewer problem with fires than lithium iron. Energy density per kilogram of lithium iron phosphate batteries is lower, but has been improving slowly. Tesla had to buy the technology from BYD. I suspect that in a few years, batteries capable of thermal runaway will be prohibited. They're becoming unnecessary.
- nimish 3y agoLFP can have similar density since you don't need the same amount of protection in the pack. It's a system level win.
- dzhiurgis 3y agoYou're mixing up LFP (LiFePo4 aka Lithium Ferrum(Iron) Phosphate) with NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt). NMC are lighter and more firey.
- kcb 3y agoI'd imagine most Model Ys are LRs. The standard range wasn't even listed normally until like a month ago.
- xxs 3y agoIron ion and phosphate are the same LiFePO4. Compared to cobalt ones it has lower nominal voltage, and higher recharge cycles, less energy density as well.
- simondotau 3y agoWe've been using liquid hydrocarbons capable of thermal runaway (petrol/gasoline) for a century despite the existence of liquid hydrocarbons which are more resistant to ignition (diesel). LFP chemistry will certainly become increasingly dominant over the next few years, particularly now that key patents have expired. But it doesn't supplant all usages of NMC yet, and isn't likely to for some time.
- 411111111111111 3y ago> Tesla had to buy the technology from BYD. I'd be terrified of driving a car with byd battery tech. There are countless videos of their cars just spontaneously combusting while driving on a road, sitting on a parking lot without charging etc...
- jancsika 3y agoTranslation: luxury vehicles are the future of car sales. Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Plus you can go and find an older Corolla with 100k+ miles on it and pay perhaps $5k cash for it, then drive it for another 50-100k. I don't see people in the service industry picking up a used Tesla, now or in the foreseeable future.
- resolutebat 3y ago> Model Y is 2 times as expensive as a Corolla. Which only makes this even more remarkable. What's going to happen when the Tesla 2 comes out and sells for the same price as a Corolla?
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y agoI’ve been waiting 10 years for this, gave up a while ago. Nobody wants to sell electric cars for cheap, why throw away the margins you can get by selling them for more? I don’t see a great opportunity for them to lower costs more on a cheaper model. Tesla already went through the exercise of making the cheaper version and people are paying premium prices for it anyway.
- oblio 3y agoThey will, soon. About 30 car manufacturers are entering the EV arena by 2026 and there isn't enough room for all of them at the top.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 3y agoI don’t have data on this, but my subjective impression is that over the last several years, the number of manufacturers selling EVs and the price of EVs have both increased at the same time. Of course, additional supply should normally decrease prices, but maybe there’s something weird going on. Here are some possible mechanisms I dreamed up: 1. Could the various manufacturers (collectively bringing lots of cash to break into the business) be bidding up the cost of some inputs? If high demand allows the market to bear higher prices, maybe everyone just ends up paying more? 2. As EV moves from “government environmental policy compliance program” to “luxury essential”, the types of cars on the market change. Just because it’s technically possible to make a cheap EV, doesn’t mean they will be readily available. By analogy, air-conditioned seats are no engineering marvel, but are usually only offered in upmarket vehicles, probably as a type of price discrimination.
- raincom 3y agoBefore Covid, one could buy Toyota vehicles 6% under MSRP. Today, Toyota dealers want $5K mark up fees, on top of MSRP, then all extra garbage, with 3 months wait time. If your family already owns an ICE vehicle, just buy Tesla Model Y as a second vehicle. These car companies and their dealers just try to screw customers with all hidden garbage.
- jbm 3y agoThe wait time for a Sienna in Canada reached 5 years at one point this year. I've never been so flabbergasted in my life. I am driving a 2016 minivan and no one I trust is offering an electric model yet. I hope Toyota wakes up, they have completely lost the plot.
- timsneath 3y agoConversely, we just ordered a Tesla Model Y yesterday for delivery within a month. Today they reached out to us to see if we'd like to take one from inventory this week. I literally paid the deposit using Apple Pay with TouchID on my MacBook. It was scary how easy it was.
- wodenokoto 3y agoAny speculation why model Y is selling better than model 3?
- wilg 3y agoEasy, crossovers are just more popular. Slightly bigger and a hatchback. Much more practical.
- crooked-v 3y agoAlso, ubiquitous rear cameras make the longstanding rear visibility issues of hatchbacks basically nonexistent.
- photonbeam 3y agoThe trunk opening on the 3 is very small compared to Y
- qwerpy 3y agoThe moment you own both a 3 and one of those enormous SUV-like baby strollers, you get rid of the 3 and get something else. A Y if you liked your 3, or probably a van if not.
- slaw 3y agoModel 3 interior is very small.
- shever73 3y agoInteresting statistics. In Ireland, VW just knocked Toyota off the top spot. I think Toyota being late to market with a full BEV might have something to do with it (yes, I know they now have the alphabet soup one whose name would score a lot in Scrabble but is, otherwise, utterly forgettable).
- elkos 3y agoDoes this include pre-sale statements or finalized deliveries only? It is one thing to have a high number of corporate pre-order it is quite another to have cars on the road.
- caf 3y agoSales are only accounted on delivery, that is when title is transferred.
- raincom 3y agosee this article 'This Is Why Toyota Isn't Rushing to Sell You an Electric Vehicle': https://jalopnik.com/toyota-focusing-on-hybrids-not-electric-vehicles-1850440908 https://jalopnik.com/toyota-focusing-on-hybrids-not-electric...
- glitchc 3y agoMuch of this reflects the chip shortage that Toyota is facing, and how difficult new Corollas are to actually come by. The typical wait time for a Corolla is now 1 year+ in major urban centers of Canada.
- sytelus 3y agoHow chip shortage still a thing? It’s not that car chips are 5nm even. Toyota should be able to put its weight just like Tesla does.
- Goz3rr 3y agoFrom what I remember, basically everything that isn't a phone or computer is on older process nodes that once were cutting edge. Some of these are so old that it doesn't make economic sense anymore to scale up capacity, or it might not even be possible anymore to easily do so. As a result you have production lines that were reasonably well suited for demand pre-covid, now having to deal with everyone stocking up on way more parts than they need because they don't want to deal with shortages again.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 3y agoTesla rewrote their software to use newer chips as soon as the crisis hit. Toyota could have done that a long time ago (they know a thing or two about supply chain, don't they?) but they prefer to keep the shortage as an excuse for their poor sales performance.
- Goz3rr 3y agoThis isn't just about microcontrollers that run software. There's shortages in MOSFETs, motor drivers, power regulation chips, you name it.
- maximus-decimus 3y agoConsidering the hackers news post about Toyota firmware having 10,000 global variables, I'm not so sure they can rewrite their software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9643551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9643551
- Xenoamorphous 3y agoI’m really surprised about this. I live in the capital city of an European country (~50M people) and I don’t think I’ve seen even one, maybe it’s not sold here? I see a fair number of model 3 and a few S, though.
- smt88 3y agoIt's because Tesla has so few models. Every other manufacturer has an order of magnitude (or two orders) more models you can buy. Some brands have more EV models than Tesla does.
- fragmede 3y agoJust counting them, sure, but do they really? Most Auto makers cover reach segment, sub-compact, compact, full-size, and SUV, and just vary the offering within that class. Eg the Honda Civic sub-compact comes in EX, EX-L, LX, Type-R, Sport, Touring, and more. But meanwhile the Model S comes in a plethora of combinations of battery sizes and motor configs. Tesla covers 4 segments, full-size, compact, SUV (X) and SUV (Y). Other automakers do cover more eg sports and truck, but there's the roadster and the Cybertruck to contend with. Point being, if you just consider segments and configuration s per-segment, I'm not convinced Tesla is that far behind.
- fernandotakai 3y agoi live in amsterdam and i see teslas literally every day. hell, a guy parks his tesla in front of my house daily to use the public charger.
- Xenoamorphous 3y agoI was talking specifically about the model Y, I do see teslas around.
- sebzim4500 3y agoThere are a fair few of them in London, mainly model 3s I think.
- 3y ago
- HeartStrings 3y agoWhat happens when you need to change the battery? Isn’t it extremely expensive?
- timbit42 3y agoThese days the batteries outlast the body with hundreds of thousands of miles.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoChinese cars like Korean cars used to be joke - the new Haval SUV is cheaper and quality wise from the looks on par with my Hyundai SUV.
- alkonaut 3y agoThe biggest quality concern isn't that something will break but the quality of the support I get when it does. If the closest dealership+brand repair shop is two hours drive away and all the major brands have repairs 5 minutes drive away, then it's not competitive. The moat of the established brands is pretty big when it comes to the service network.
- tibbydudeza 3y agoTrue on parts availability - a friend bought a hot hatch from Peugeot - it was one of those performance models with a tweaked engine (higher rpm/camshafts) instead of the run of the mill ones. So engine imploded and he waited months for a part that was on a ship somewhere - they eventually bought the car back from him. Needless to say I never bought a French car.
- sharts 3y agoAnd just how much tax incentives and government handouts have gone into making this headline happen? Seems like a lot of upward transfer of wealth for what is arguably marginal (if any) improvement to the environment or driver experience.
- trabant00 3y agoThere's no away around it since we really have to move pollution out of the cities. Because that's what this is, not an overall environment benefit but managing pollution zones. Yes, all the people are paying for what few can afford, but again, there's no other alternative. The era of affordable driving in big cities is over. Only the rich will be able to, in the future. And the poor will be crammed in horrible public transport.
- ArtemZ 3y agoI bought a used Mercury Grand Marquis 2009 in perfect condition one year ago and I don't see why would I want to part with it in the next 20 years or so. Grain leather interior that is not making any sounds on road bumps, no touchscreen bs, super smooth ride thanks to rear air suspension. Sure it can't accelerate as fast as an EV, but I just want have a relaxed pleasing experience, not accelerations. It's V8 also makes pleasing sounds when going uphill. And I paid just 6k for it. I'd rather double the normal maintenance for it than buy a Tesla.
- jeffrallen 3y agoThen why the hell are they so expensive? I'd like to be all in on electric, but my car budget is 30k, why do they pile so much fancy crap on them? I want a go pedal, a stop pedal and a window crank. You can keep all the rest of the crap for the luxury cars.
- i2cmaster 3y agoThis. I'd happily buy a minimalist electric car (bonus if they can use/create off the shelf parts) but I'm not going to pay extra. Then again my two cars and yacht are all used beaters.
- paganel 3y agoA SUV is the best selling car of the year till now instead of a sedan and this is all done in order to fight "climate change". How can normal people can take this discourse as being serious anymore?
- Gordonjcp 3y agoGiven that they're so much more expensive than a Corolla, I'd expect the interiors to be less naff and plasticky. Are all American cars that bad?
- ourmandave 3y agoArticle talks about sales in Australia, but there was also a lot sold in China in 2023. So new market sales numbers, will they hold up in coming years? https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/tesla-sales-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/tesla-sal...
- nymalt 3y agoReading comments here about Tesla Y. And my impression is that the build quality and everything got substantially better over the years.
- InTheArena 3y agoThis. I bought an early model 3, and a a slightly later MY. The Y is far better quality wise (but even the 3 is still a great car)
- globular-toast 3y agoHow depressing. The world's best-selling car is now a 2 tonne behemoth. 20 years ago I dreamed of us progressing and correcting some of the mistakes of the past. Since then we've only regressed further down the exact same paths as previous generations. I hold no hope for humanity going forward.
- Lolaccount 3y agoInteresting ... the d0uche-mobile wins out in the end ... Impressive technology but wouldn't be caught dead in it. It's a brand thing. Don't want to be associated with the E-kn0b. If I was buying now, it would be from Hyundai. However, living in the city, I can't justify either so I'll keep rolling in my 69 Beetle every couple of weeks. Tip: save yourself a tonne of money and ... just don't buy a car if you don't need it.
- Waterluvian 3y agoCall me weird but what I want is a Corolla EV. No dashboard overhaul. No autonomy. No other “rethinks.”
- chrisldgk 3y agoAlso make it look like the GR Corolla. It’s a great looking car.
- RickJWagner 3y agoTruly stunning. I remember a number of months back when people were discussing short-selling Tesla. I'm soooooo glad I don't play those kinds of games.
- ewgoforth 3y agoPart of this is because cars are losing out to trucks. https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/light-trucks-now-outselling-cars/#:~:text=New%20trucks%20are%20outselling%20new%20cars%20at%20a,over%20all%20the%20new%20trucks%20on%20the%20road https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/light-trucks-now-outselli.... https://www.statista.com/statistics/204212/north-america-car-and-truck-production-since-1990/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/204212/north-america-car...
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- w10-1 3y agoICE makers now face a huge risk of unsold inventory. Imagine Toyota with even 2-3% unsold due to people wanting electric or keeping their old Toyota's that last forever. Thus, they're stuck in a pattern of under-building that reduces demand due to the many alternatives - it could be a vicious cycle. Couple that with access to China: Toyota not so much, but Tesla is allowed to sell there because it put a factory there and uses BYD batteries. That's another vicious cycle: dealing with the devil to access that market only empowers the devil. So it has little to do with EV's or with the Tesla model Y.
- atorodius 3y agoGenuine Question: when I was in the US last year (NYC and New Orleans) I was surprised to see almost no electric cars at all (even in NYC it was like 5 Teslas in 1 week).. where are they? All in Californi?