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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces
- surcap526 1mo ago[dead]
- dipierro 1mo agoThis did not end well for freedom in Russia (see Moscow underground face recognition tech targeting dissidents). This will not end well for democracy in Europe.
- proc0 1mo ago21st century authoritarianism. Humans learned nothing from the 20th century.
- root-parent 1mo agoThis is the country that can´t stop dingy boats...this despite journalists always being able to be there on time to take pictures for the Daily Mail...
- codeduck 1mo agoAll right, mate, let's hear your plan for securing the UK's south-eastern coastline.
- Grum9 1mo ago[dead]
- Citizen_Lame 1mo agoSharks and tornados, and imagine if we can combine them!
- codeduck 1mo agoBad news, budget cuts mean we can afford a flounder with a paper fan. His name's Steven and he lives about twenty yards east of Lulworth Cover, but we reckon he's okay to commute to work.
- root-parent 1mo agoIf Daily Mail journalist can be there on time to photograph the boats, the authorities could spend less time in the pub, and make some arrests...
- IshKebab 1mo agoTake people back to France? Feels pretty damn obvious to me. I believe they even agreed something like that fairly recently.
- codeduck 1mo agoBelieve it or not, they actually already do this.
- account42 1mo agoMost (non-western) countries do pretty well by making it clear that those who enter illegally will be arrested, charged, imprisoned, and then deported (at their own cost) rather than given free benefits.
- codeduck 1mo agoBelieve it or not, the UK already does this to people for whom there is no plausible asylum claim. The problem, if you want to think about it as such, is that the UK currently believes in treating potential asylum claimants as such rather than automatically labeling them as criminals.
- account42 1mo agoThis may be technically correct but only because the definition of "potentional asylum claimants" has been expanded to include pretty much everyone.
- cyanydeez 1mo agoi'm pretty sure the majority learned plenty well. But that's not whose in charge is it. Even in democracy, especially in America, it's the billionaires and puritans making these choices.
- s5ma6n 1mo agoI'd argue that they actually learned it well, that's why we see anti-privacy stuff like this and Chat Control.
- zombot 1mo agoWorse, the children of the hippies have become reactionary bigots.
- mantas 1mo agoMore like a good bunch of the hippies were in it just to have a good time. And then happily built the system we know.
- jpfromlondon 1mo agoit's the hand-wringing do-gooders that implemented all of the authoritarian practices in the uk.
- christophilus 1mo agoI just went through airport security. It’s been coming a long time. 2001 made a lot of people in the US, at least, normalize big brother.
- HPsquared 1mo agoThis time is different, they say.
- inigyou 1mo agoHumans learned a lot. They learned some ways that don't work. That's why Germany learned to be more subtle, UK learned it needs more surveillance, France learned to ban face coverings, not Muslims, and USA learned how to properly stack the courts.
- spacebanana7 1mo ago“Our deployments are intelligence-led and focused on identifying people wanted by the police or courts, including those suspected of serious offences and those who may be breaching bail conditions or court orders” This is crazy. Could easily be used to track protesters who went to the an event the police didn’t like.
- Schiendelman 1mo agoCould? Will.
- throwayay4929 1mo agoCould easily be used to track people who posted something bad on Twitter.
- inigyou 1mo agoLike what?
- dandaka 1mo agoThis is exactly what happened in Moscow after same tech was launched. It is much 'safer' on streets, since every entrance door and traffic intersection is equipped with cameras now. But I pick Portugal's approach every time — no public cameras, no dashcams, it is forbidden to record private persons in public without permission.
- danw1979 1mo agoI’m in Portugal with kids right now and I can not think of a country where dashcams would be more useful. The standard of driving and adherence to the law of the roads is some of the worst I’ve encountered in Europe. I haven’t let go of my 9yo’s hand since we arrived in Porto a few days ago. Speeding is chronic and nobody gives a shit for the safety of you or your children here.
- wickedsickeune 1mo ago
- Schiendelman 1mo agoThey weren't? That's more surprising given the UK surveillance state.
- cucumber3732842 1mo agoI assume they were always doing it. Now they're doing it above the table so that they can comb through the dataset for petty reasons that don't justify the expense of parallel construction.
- windowliker 1mo agoPolice have been using it in London for several years, mostly at protests, but also in other 'test' deployments. They are currently required (it seems) to place signage around the catchment area to notify the public that facial recognition is in progress. Private companies may well have been using it for longer in their shops without having to notify anyone. Sainsbury's, for instance, quickly attracted suspicion that they were doing trials of it at certain locations.
- dofm 1mo agoSainsbury's and B&M and a couple of others use Facewatch, I think. A very badly run system, but alas no better or worse than USA stores and malls are doing.
- dofm 1mo agoThe concept of the UK "surveillance state" is actually quite overcooked. It's largely based on myth and dramatisation. BTP probably have a national live feed of railway station cameras. I bloody hope they do, considering it's a rather small, quite centralised police force that covers an enormous rail network, but they are known to have hired "super-recognisers" — skilled CCTV operators — instead. We have had generations of terror threats to and attacks on our railway system, trains, railway stations. (And the most long-term and persistent of those threats was Irish republican terrorism bankrolled by Americans, for that matter) But British police generally simply don't have a fully-joined up surveillance system. We are not tracked from door to door by police cameras; the police control relatively few even in London, and none in most towns. I probably cannot walk through the main part of town without passng a council CCTV camera because two of them are used to keep a pedestrianised road safe, but for the most part I don't think I'd pass one at all. Councils have cameras for various things — parking and traffic enforcement is a nightmare in small old crowded towns — but police don't always have access to these, even. (They do where I live because there are actually so few police that we — a town of sixty thousand people — nearly ended up without a police station at all.) There's a network of traffic cameras on motorways and some urban A roads (traffic is a complex problem in the UK) and one assumes the security services have a feed of that and of the railway station cameras. Again: I want them to. But we simply do not have and never have had a surveillance system even slightly as capable as the USA has apparently begun rolling out with Flock. Generally speaking I worry that people outside the UK think the surveillance system in "Hot Fuzz" is real. Most of the time if the British police want to see CCTV footage they have to knock on doors and ask, just like anywhere else.
- chrisjj 1mo ago> People who prefer not to enter the recognition zone will have alternative routes available Looking forward to seeing the singnage there.
- PunchyHamster 1mo ago[flagged]
- Retr0id 1mo agoThis must be especially inconvenient for those with criminal physiognomy.
- DaSHacka 1mo agoOr really, in the anarcho-tyrannistic structures Western countries have turned into, those who don't.
- Traster 1mo agoI really don't understand why they do trials for this. What would be the failure case for the trial? "We carried out the trial for 6 weeks over X period of time, we arrested Y people, at that rate we've decided this is not compatible with modern liberal democracy, we would've traded a free society for Y+2 arrests over X period but we just didn't quite get there"? As suggested by other people - this is just going to be used to identify, infiltrate and disrupt the numerous peaceful protests that the police aren't keen on in London.
- jambalaya8 1mo agoAll due respect but I am not totally against police dealing with protests. I am against this Orwellian surveillance stuff. If you want to police so people can deal with day to day things like go shopping without being harassed or freaked out I am all for that. But do it the old fashioned way.
- samudrijan 1mo agoSo flash bang grenades to peaceful protesters skulls is okay? Shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protesters eyes is okay?
- dghlsakjg 1mo agoNone of what they said could logically lead to that conclusion.
- account42 1mo agoThese are the techniques police have been using to suppress protests without mass surveillance.
- jambalaya8 1mo agothe alternative, of people just not acting that way, seems to have been forgotten about. the truth is most people can easily lookup roughly what percentage of people feel what way online. i don't need or want to have streets i have to walk shut down or taken over by craziness and annoying props and signs. wanna protest? go to where your "elected officials" are. not me.
- Oarch 1mo agoHow will this handle face masks? Hijabs or Niqabs?
- bobim 1mo agoDirect classification as bad actor with bad intentions.
- Simulacra 1mo agoI can't speak to other nations, but given the present issues in Britain with two tier policing, they will receive a religious exemption. Which may result in everyone wearing a hijab just for privacy.
- siliconpotato 1mo agobaseball cap and sunglasses will do just fine.
- bobim 1mo agoHumans are able to identify a person just with general dimensions and how they move. It's probably within the reach of today's machine learning techniques...
- deadbunny 1mo agoDo you have some examples of "two tier policing"?
- bobim 1mo agoBrazil was so right. We're just an inference away from being jailed. I'm not from UK but it shows how we are all helpless and see in plain conciousness what is coming. When did we lost the grip?
- doublerabbit 1mo agoThe 1960's was about the time in history when investment went in to surveillance programs. Computer recognition has been around for a very long time, and has always been on the edge for spying on citizens. It's accelerated now because we have future technology that they didn't have back then.
- bobim 1mo agoBut stemming from which need? Cold war?
- doublerabbit 1mo agoThere's never just one. Mainly political. Those who in power of the state don't want to loose power. A protest, revolt is the best way to overthrow that. So to eliminate that threat is to survey. Install fear and you have control. > The idea that emerged around the time of the French Revolution that the political spectrum can be divided into a right- and left wing in the first place – it becomes clear that the Left, in its essence, is a critique of bureaucracy, even if it’s one that has, again and again, been forced to accommodate itself in practice to the very bureaucratic structures and mindset it originally arose to oppose. [1] [1] Computers and Surveillance Scandals in the 1960s-70s - https://sciencespo.hal.science/hal-03952774v1/document https://sciencespo.hal.science/hal-03952774v1/document
- hamper653 1mo agoClass war.
- coldtea 1mo agoNote to readers: Brazil the Terry Gilliam Kafkaesque movie, not the country.
- coldtea 1mo agoLest they commit the offense of buying a baseball bat or being stabbed?
- Markoff 1mo agoTBH wrapped baseball bat is still a baseball bat, just because it's wrapped it doesn't mean you can't use it plus the beginning of the video was missing and it was clearly during some protest but I agree being stabbed should be legal for victim /s
- coldtea 1mo agoIt was not during some protest, many people of all colors nearby supported the person being arrested and told the policeman he's doing a stupid mistake. Worse is that it's one of a long run of infuriating police state blunders (to put it mildly).
- Markoff 1mo agoso people in UK streets normally carry on their shoulder 2 meters tall cross?
- smurda 1mo agoThe UK already has so much CCTV. Some believe it reduces drug-related, vehicle, and property crime, but most agree is has virtually no effect on violent crime (https://www.college.police.uk/research/crime-reduction-toolkit/cctv https://www.college.police.uk/research/crime-reduction-toolk...). Even if this initiative is effective at reducing crime, I don't want to lose privacy or see a chilling effect in society where people are afraid because they know they're being watched.
- dingaling 1mo ago> The UK already has so much CCTV. But most of it, the overwhelming majority, comprises standalone installations at best networked into a corporate HQ but most commonly just recorded on site. It's not like in police drama programmes where they can switch from the camera in the Tube station to the one in the newsagent outside for seamless real-time tracking.
- kimixa 1mo agoYes, the "Big Scary Numbers" listing CCTV cameras per capita include private cameras, which can outnumber "public" (government, council and police) cameras by orders of magnitude. In the UK these include those owned by businesses and individuals, even things like ring doorbells cameras. There's no real equivalent numbers including that I can find for the USA. In 2024 there were some 16 thousand council operated cameras in London total [0] - well below the ~700k often touted including private cameras. If you restrict it to just those public cameras, London would barely be in the top 10 of USA cities in public cameras per capita. Sure, it's not good, but implicit in many comments here is "I'm glad it's not that bad here" (presumably the USA for most commentors), but in reality it is happening "here", has been happening "here" for some time, and in many ways is already much worse "here" already. While I think many of the UK's actions around this are massive mistake, certainly don't read me as supporting it, at least understand that the big headlines and pointing away from home towards "Orwellian UK" is a misleading distraction. [0] https://www.get-licensed.co.uk/reports/cctv-cameras-in-the-uk-2025 https://www.get-licensed.co.uk/reports/cctv-cameras-in-the-u...
- Simulacra 1mo agoTechnology that began in the private sector, retailers using facial recognition technology to profile customers, has now bled over violently into public life. I strongly believe in the right to be forgotten, and I strongly believe in the right to be peacefully invisible. No flock cameras. No facial recognition cameras. The intrusion and dangers are too great against any benefit. It's only a matter of time until government forces a social credit score upon all of us back by these cameras.
- RedShift1 1mo agoOi, you have a loicense for that mate?
- DarkmSparks 1mo agoFascist monarchy has facist policies shocker. So glad I left that hell hole.
- kypro 1mo agoFor what it's worth, as a Brit, I assure you no one cares about this, and it's likely that most people, if asked, would support it. The UK doesn't value liberty for liberty's sake like the US does. In the US there seems to be this notion that freedom is a universal good, where as in the UK people are quite comfortable with liberties being revoked if it means they feel safer or fewer people are doing things they don't like. UK political debate today largely just consists of debates about what to ban next – loud fireworks, energy drinks, smoking, gambling, porn, not wearing headphones on public transport, praying for people having abortions, etc. While this tech will obviously be used to clamp down on protests that are inconvenient to the government (as we've seen happen with protests in recent UK history), even these measures tend to be popular in the UK. Most protest groups are net-unpopular, therefore any movement the government makes to crack down on say Palestine protests, climate protests or immigration protests, are fairly popular here. Imo the UK was accidentally a liberal country post-WWII to the early 1990s because of influence from the US, but culturally the UK isn't liberal and never was. We're a very socially conservative country and take a natural dislike to anyone who rocks the boat a little. These new digital surveillance techniques are very much in line with British cultural conservatism, and follow a long history of UK mass surveillance. As a Brit who inhabits the US desire for freedom I genuinely struggle to relate to Brits and it always makes me feel less insane when I come on here and find other people who value liberty too. But in my real life, I think I've genuinely only ever met one Brit who has shared my desire for freedom.
- iamnothere 1mo agoI wonder what makes it different than Japan. Japan, also a large island nation with a developed economy, is also socially conservative in most areas—but the people rely on each other to enforce social norms instead of the law. The government is famously hands off, and tends to release statements and public service campaigns about what citizens should do rather than dictating to them what they must do. And the people generally follow the rules!
- kypro 1mo ago> the people rely on each other to enforce social norms This is probably the difference. Here's a video of a leading UK MP (whose party largely represents upper-middle class white-Brits) reacing to someone doing something he doesn't like on public transport: https://www.facebook.com/libdems/videos/stop-the-headphone-dodgers/1079073960711486/ https://www.facebook.com/libdems/videos/stop-the-headphone-d... Note the passivate aggression, then the threat to use state force to stop it. British people are too polite to tell people to stop doing things. We prefer that to be a responsibility of the police.
- HelloUsername 1mo agoNot really related to the written topic of this page, but I noticed there is a sideways red button with "Leave this site" that redirects you to 'https://www.google.co.uk/ https://www.google.co.uk/'. What could be the incentive behind this? Why not just close the tab?
- ndsipa_pomu 1mo agoIf you are about to be watched by an abusive person, it may be better to immediately switch the browser to an innocent page rather than possibly closing it down which may look more suspicious.
- strong-self 1mo agopolice have been running facial recognition at london protests for years already. so is this just making it official?
- ExoticPearTree 1mo agoThe way things keep devolving in Britain, the easiest path is to force everyone to wear a camera on their chest like the police do. Then you can arrest people who don't wear them because surely they have something to hide.
- windowliker 1mo agoWhy would they need to do anything so explicit and crude? Everyone carries a smartphone on them at every waking moment and they chose to do it willingly (though unwitting of the implications for personal privacy). They are also ready to use them for surveillance almost on a hair-trigger impulse these days. Thankfully this works against state services almost as much as it works against the public, as channels like Crimebodge are able to show us. But the point is that the state already knows what these devices represent to them in terms of data collection, and are subtle enough to avoid making this a mandatory situation... For now.
- _fw 1mo agoIt’s a moot point. I’m saddened at the invasion of privacy and the intrusion on an individual’s civil liberties, but anonymous travel on the London Underground died when they made bank cards and contactless the primary way to get through the barriers. I’m not saying that “this doesn’t matter because it’s slightly worse than before”. I’m saying the frog has been boiling for a long time. I don’t want people being surprised as though THIS is the nail in the coffin of untracked movement across the city. As others have said, we’ve always been tracked. This is just them being open about their latest methods. I hope this serves as a warning for citizens elsewhere: this is a slope that governments will only slide down further. There is no coming back from this in the UK. Supermarkets in the UK point cameras at your face at self-checkout. Roadside CCTV captures your registration plate and tracks your vehicle across the country. Your ISP proactively shares your web history with the state. Being an anonymous citizen in the UK has been an impossibility for at least 20 years. Any weapons can and will be utilised against a perceived enemy. When that perceived enemy becomes /you/, you should expect these things to be used against you. History has taught us that before. We have seen in the last 10 years that liberal democracies are fragile things. Robust restrictions on the state’s ability to monitor, interfere with and restrict the daily lives of its citizens aren’t a luxury; they’re essential to protecting a free and just society.
- ceuk 1mo ago> Your ISP proactively shares your web history with the state. How so? I'm with AAISP and I'd be very surprised if they were doing this. What are you referring to here?
- Levitating 1mo agoI don't see how this is any different from how traffic cameras are used. Hot take, but as long as the systems aren't abused by law enforcement I don't see the big deal.
- ValentinPearce 1mo ago> as long as the systems aren't abused by law enforcement I don't see the big deal The amount of recent cases in the US is enough for me to not place any faith in the fact that this system would not be abused.
- layer8 1mo agoHow traffic cameras are used arguably is a big deal.
- reboot81 1mo agoAt first this made me upset - why should I be monitored? Then it hit me, years ago we had policemen/bobbies that would essentially do the same thing. Look at people - notice them. It’s a shame they didn't launch this as bobbie v2 that would offer people useful services (like the one wearing a funny hat did): a way to alert police, information, directions. Heck it could even offer guidance for those in need to talk to someone. Truly a missed opportunity.
- asdewqqwer 1mo agoHot take, but as long as human dose not need to eat food half of the political problem will be solved.
- danw1979 1mo ago> People who prefer not to enter the recognition zone will have alternative routes available So what is the point ?
- danw1979 1mo agoPutting aside the social and legal implications of this trial, I find it very interesting how projects like this are often trumpeted to be successful and celebrated at launch (rather than when proven to work, or save costs or whatever) as though the hard bit was actually wading for months or years through several government and private IT bureaucracies, not making a system that delivers what it promises.
- cedws 1mo agoThe surveillance of China without the prosperity or safety. At least in China I can leave my bag or laptop out of sight for a moment, same cannot be said of my home city of London. What good is all of this when hard criminals are let out of prison after 6 months. Clown country.
- thenthenthen 1mo agoProsperity?
- lionkor 1mo agoWhat point are you making? Can you elaborate?
- thenthenthen 1mo agoI live in China for the past 4 years and I have not have been prosperous, nor my friends, on the contrarie. Safe yes. That said, I used to live way below the poverty line in western europe before, and well..still bit it is a bit higher, so yeah maybe prosperity is true
- thenthenthen 1mo agoTldr:from a ground perspective the economy seems to be going down with no signs of recovery
- inigyou 1mo agoYes, prosperity. And safety. China is well above the UK in prosperity and safety.
- thinkingtoilet 1mo agoIs that because it's actually safer or is it because they don't report crimes in an honest manner?
- pluc 1mo agoJust gonna drop this here for no particular reason https://urban-privacy.com/pages/anti-surveillance-clothing https://urban-privacy.com/pages/anti-surveillance-clothing
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- gusfoo 1mo agoIt's laughably naiive to think that that stuff works. Not even the maker thinks it does.
- miroljub 1mo agoIn Beijing underground doesn't scan people's faces. They also don't arrest for internet memes. Just saying.
- meh2frdf 1mo agowinnie the poo?
- 023847292847 1mo ago[flagged]
- nphardon 1mo agomask up.
- driverdan 1mo agoI don't know UK law but assume they already made that illegal.
- contingencies 1mo agoSadly, it seems to me that what we are witnessing in our era is a convergence of technology-enhanced surveillance governance globally, greatly eroding personal agency and democratic capacity to institute change. We desperately need utopian futures but seem to be getting only dystopias regardless of origin state and nominal political ideology: almost as if 1984, Animal Farm, Enemy of the State, Gattaca, Terminator, and THX 1138 had a Waterworld-Mad Max setting. We should each try to imagine a technology-enabled future utopia and build an enabling technology instead of contributing to this sort of thing - which already exists in most countries not to mention financial surveillance, internet surveillance, mobile phone surveillance, vehicle and commercial flight/ship surveillance. Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist. Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter. Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat. Als sie die Juden einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Jude. Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
- hn_submit 1mo agoBritain is the original Orwellian society!! They even practice DoubleSpeak and DoubleThink in Blighty, especially in government and parliamentary circles.
- tpholland 1mo agoIt will be fine. Most Brits are comfortable with the poor quality of Orwell commentary from over the pond. American Orwell fans mostly don't even read his key novels like Keep the Aspadistra Flying, just his juvenile science fiction stuff.
- SkinTaco 1mo agoHahaha Let me guess - you live in the UK?
- mosura 1mo agoThe odd thing is Americans seem to take Aldous Huxley enormously more seriously than the Brits do, and they may be right in doing so.
- schaefer 1mo agoI'm going to pretend you're talking about The Doors of Perception. Even though you are obviously talking about Brave New World.
- defrost 1mo agoI'll just drop: In an interview with Ron Martinetti of American Legends website, Laura Huxley called Island "the finest and final work." In Laura's opinion, "He put everything in that. Brave New World was a warning and Island was an offering." ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_(Huxley_novel) I had a perhaps overly heavy consumption of {X}-topia literature in my early teens.
- eaenki 1mo ago
- i_am_a_peasant 1mo agoI’ve used the London underground. I wouldn’t let my kids go on it alone. I welcome this tbh. I don’t see what else they’re supposed to do other than have permanent guards on every wagon and every corner 24/7
- asdff 1mo agoI mean lets be honest if you are up to no good and there are facial scanners, you'd just throw on your n95 mask and black hoodie, maybe stick a pebble in your shoe, and then poof this tech no longer stops the bad guys. There are also cases where law enforcement misuses this sort of technology to stalk romantic interests. So your kids could very well be stalked by a pervert in law enforcement more effectively with this technology.
- nphardon 1mo agoErich Mielke smiles from his grave.
- retube 1mo agoLots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue? Comments here seem like an ideological kneejerk response.
- MC995 1mo ago> Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue? This same argument would apply to Flock cameras, correct?
- asdff 1mo agoYou assume it will be used in good faith which is charitable. It doesn't even need to take an authoritarian regime to pervert this technology. Abusive police officers in the US for example use Flock to stalk ex girlfriends.
- dijksterhuis 1mo ago> Abusive police officers in the US for example use Flock to stalk ex girlfriends. the UK is not the US ;)
- asdff 1mo agoYes I'm sure their police force is entirely free of any psychological problems and in no way selects for people who might be incline to abuse their position of authority. Oh wait, this came out just yesterday: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/08/10/detective-responsible-policing-standards-stalked-his-ex/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/08/10/detective-respon...
- dijksterhuis 1mo ago
- hollow-moe 1mo agocan't wait for these to normalize https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cyberpunk+oni+mask&iar=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cyberpunk+oni+mask&iar=images
- IncreasePosts 1mo agoAll that would be left is gait and biometric analysis, as well as any electronic signalling coming from the tracking device everyone carries in their pocket.
- azalemeth 1mo agoI've often wondered what would happen if you took some near IR, eye safe, ultra bright LEDs and strobed them at 60 Hz from your headgear in an omnidirectional fashion, pointing away from your body and avoiding nearby floor reflections. You'd stick out like a sore thumb (which I wouldn't mind, as I'm not a criminal nor doing anything wrong!) but it would be enough to likely "opt out" of facial recognition via dint of blinding the camera in the vicinity of your face. Britain has all sorts of laws like "attempting to pervert the course of justice", so you'd have to be very careful to not accidentally cover for a "real criminal", but just to preserve privacy it might work (especially if more than one person did so). I've never had the guts to do it, but I do really hate facial recognition and all of this surveillance capitalism.
- chrisjj 1mo agoYou'd be charged under the Computer Misuse act. /i
- heyitsmedotjayb 1mo ago[flagged]
- tpholland 1mo agoOK. There's not much antisemitism in London though. It's a major world city.
- heyitsmedotjayb 1mo agoBritish jews are some of the most scared and under threat in the entire world. Please open any newspaper, pretty much every single day there's another piece explaining how scared Jews are. In Golders Green for example, the Jewish segregated ambulance service was antisemitically targeted.
- yearesadpeople 1mo agoIt's the usual responses isn't it: _'I'm saddened'_ or, _'what has happened to Britain'_. Had a look at America, Russia, or Belarus, etc.? Living in the UK is fantastic.
- nxm 1mo agoSure… just a post a mean meme and see what happens
- ricardobeat 1mo agoThose are not exactly high standards to measure against?
- rjh29 1mo agoTwo things can be true here 1. The UK "surveillance state" narrative pushed in the US is overblown and we do not think about it or care about it as much as Americans do 2. Living in the UK is not "fantastic" for a decent percentage of people. Cost of living is insane.
- yearesadpeople 1mo agoCost of living is an interesting comparison to invoke. For low, mid, high income households and individuals - per region - would the cost of living - in the UK - be higher or lower considering the same factors (income, region, family) of the US?
- basisword 1mo agoTo be honest I don't see the point. Anyone committing a crime goes around in a balaclava these days so facial recognition won't be much use. They'd have much more success just banning face coverings and there would be plenty of support for it. The problems we have are much deeper though. Petty crime is out of control and it's impacting society in obvious ways. Just go to a shop to see the measures they have to take to try to reduce theft. We don't have enough police due to a decade or two of underfunding. And even if we did we don't have enough prison space to even let harder criminals finish out their sentences - so what's the point in arresting petty criminals? Saying that London is still one of the safest major cities in the world. Safer than any major US city. I've been living here a long time and the worst I've seen is a few phone thefts. I can walk pretty much anywhere safely at any time of the day or night. Don't let the fear mongering online fool you.
- andy_ppp 1mo agoI have it on good authority they have been doing this for years, maybe this is just an increase to inside the station or maybe just a good time to normalise this…
- samaltmanfried 1mo agoGood news! That means they're going to solve all that street crime, right?
- nxm 1mo agoYou’ll get arrested instead for posting a meme calling out crimes
- type0 1mo agoThe hubris for surveillance in UK is staggering, what will they do next - roll out the social score system so you'll be banned from taking the tube if you express too much non sanctioned thoughts online?
- EmbarrassedHelp 1mo agoI'm waiting for them to turn every wifi router in 3D tracking nodes that monitor the exact location and body position of everyone nearby in buildings. Its too juicy of target once they get the tech fully figured out.
- ekianjo 1mo agothey already put more people in jail than any other country for expressing the wrong opinions on social networks
- rob74 1mo ago"Wrong opinions" as in death threats and similar light-hearted stuff?
- modo_mario 1mo agoI've seen too many that didn't post targeted death threats. Also of people who posted stuff that could be interpreted as vague calls to action when riots were happening. It becomes notewhorty tho that those people of note making a facebook posts got punished harder than the average rioter and reprisal seems to disproportionately target action that establishment might feel threathened by. From my experience it's easy to find plenty similar or even more direct or more hatefull messages or calls to action regarding other places, events or more minor movements. But those come from minorities or involve movements with less momentum or movements abroad.
- lexicality 1mo agoOn the one hand, I hate the expansion of authoritarian power by the state. On the other, I do think that we should put people in prison for posting on facebook. That way I won't have to keep seeing my crazy uncle at family gatherings!
- throwawaypath 1mo ago[flagged]
- freakynit 1mo agoThe issue with all this surveillance is that it always ends up with suppression of dissent and silencing of opposition by abusing enforcement agencies. All such surveillance should start with 24-hour live video feed of private lives of all politicians... they carry immense power and control, and thus, warrant an equally powerful monitoring and scrutiny compared to common people.
- kakacik 1mo agoThis is never going to fly, and expecting it is waste of time and energy that could have been used more productively. Think for a second or two about the type of folks who get, succeed and even thrive in politics over decades. Not your regular Joe, not a nice friendly balanced individual. No, biggest fuckups with massive daddy issues, school bullies, unresolvable inferiority complexes, sociopaths to the core, for whom the lure of money and power over others trumps everything else. This is the default, regardless of country. Look at politics through such optics and many things will start to make sense, also one would gain more realistic expectations from those folks. Now, why would such people ever allow that, to expose all their deep flaws to whole world?
- freakynit 1mo agoWhy... because you can use their own argument to make your case as a common person... for example, you just gave one of those: "...to expose all their deep flaws to whole world?" Everyone has those.. why should common people give away those. It's not about making it happen on them.. it's about forcing them to defend this application on them.. and then using the same argument to application on common people... As The Joker famously said: "It's about sending a message" lol :)
- account42 1mo agoWhy do you think they should get a choice about it?
- inigyou 1mo agoBecause we designed the system in a way that things only happen if they vote for them to happen. Or are you going to personally install a camera in every politician's house without their knowledge or consent?
- rob74 1mo ago> People who prefer not to enter the recognition zone will have alternative routes available and images of anyone not on the authorised database will be deleted immediately and permanently. So, massive invasion of privacy, but will only catch stupid criminals (and unsuspecting people who happen to have a strong resemblance with a criminal in the database?).
- dmazin 1mo agoI think this refers to the trial.
- cagz 1mo agoIt is BTP, not London Underground, they are not the same thing.
- a2fz 1mo agoYes, but this instance of it was in the Underground station, whereas previous cases have been in the mainline Network Rail-operated stations.
- rtpg 1mo agoLike 10 years ago I realized that facial recognition research was basically on the same level as weapons research, if not worse. So many nefarious usages. Every researcher and product designer who leaned into this just has helped speedrun the world into a nasty place. But I guess I don’t have to type my passcode into my phone anymore!
- Cider9986 1mo ago>I don’t have to type my passcode into my phone anymore! FaceID is completely on device and the biometrics can't be extracted even with physical access. Very different from facial recognition in this context.
- rtpg 1mo agoMy feeling is that the entire category of research is bad, even if you can end up with good implementations.
- Cider9986 1mo agoYa got a loisence for that face, mate?
- ceuk 1mo agoWhat does this comment actually contribute? Please go read the guidelines [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Cider9986 1mo agoYa got a loiscense for that comment, mate? You can report rulebreaking comments to hn@ycombinator.com.
- ceuk 1mo agoI don't want want you reported (or even to follow the rules for their own sake) I suggested you go read/consider the guidelines as they are a good write-up on internet etiquette in general. Engaging in a positive way on the internet requires more from us than blindly posting every arbitrary thing that pops into our heads and I think it's right to hold each-other to account. Sorry if that seems sanctimonious
- batrat 1mo agoI don't mind it. I work in the same field and people don't want to work in government institutions anymore, there are less and less kids in police/military schools. Cameras allow officers to stop patrolling and do more preventive work, focus on hard cases, etc. In a relative small city we manage 500+ cameras and more are added every day. The problem is storage and finding people to monitor them. My only issue is getting it in hands of some crazy dictator, but that is another story.
- agile-gift0262 1mo ago> My only issue is getting it in hands of some crazy dictator, but that is another story. That IS the story though. The kind of offences these cameras disuade pale in comparison with the risk of abuse of power infringed in the 99.999% of innocent people these cameras are pointed at suppose.
- kakacik 1mo agoMost people don't grok the built-in threat. They only realize when inevitably they are in deep shit already, then all the 'how could we have known' empty phrases come to surface. Every society gets what they deserve at the end (which doesn't mean every individual, thats why its optimal to live in society that has similar core values and moral 'height' to not be constantly depressed from fellow citizens and their decisions ie in voting). Maintaining freedom requires continuous effort that can be unpleasant, not giving up privacies 1 by 1 to get deep into / maintain undisturbed comfort zone. Laziness is one way to kill freedom.
- dTal 1mo agoSo you're okay with more and more power held by fewer and fewer people, but balk at all the power held by one person. Where is the line, how will you recognize it, and having done so how will you arrest the trend?
- 4ggr0 1mo ago> My only issue is getting it in hands of some crazy dictator thankfully the US doesn't have a crazy dude on top right now. dictator is probably a bit far fetched, but to be honest...
- deepmem 1mo agoseems like something positive thing is happening in UK.
- dtnm 1mo agoBinface is safe.
- a2fz 1mo agoTo provide clarity, this isn't (yet) (publicly) hooked up to the whole CCTV network of London Underground stations. Instead they use these temporary portable stations you can see at the end of the linked article. I went to Victoria station where they were doing this yesterday and the police seemed quite unhappy with me taking photos of them operating the facial recognition station and confronted me almost immediately. The irony... The area they were doing it in was completely swarming with far more police officers than usual, supposedly to "provide information". I had expected to see signs all around the station warning passengers that this trial was taking place, but the only ones I saw were directly in that area or by the stairs as you're walking down into it. They weren't small enough that I could characterise them as intentionally hard-to-miss, but I reckon with the amount of traffic going down that staircase, the overwhelming majority of people would not have actually been aware that they were being subject to this LFR trial. I didn't see a single person other than myself pausing to read the signs. Edit: There also wasn't a single sign inside the gateline where you'd tap out and walk into the area that the camera station was pointing at. I asked the police why this was, and they claimed it was because the cameras are only positioned to capture people entering the station, not exiting. Maybe that's true, as long as you don't turn around at any point? I'm not convinced.
- philipallstar 1mo agoIt's of course partly selection bias, but the number of YouTube videos where UK police are upset at someone filming in public, and not even focusing on people, is incredibly ironic.
- lazide 1mo agoIt’s typical creepy authoritarian behavior. Want to guess how much stalking is going on?
- cwmoore 1mo agoI recently saw mugshots of a police officer arrested for misusing the surveillance data they have access to for personal reasons. In the mugshot, this officer of the court looked just like a criminal.
- budududuroiu 1mo agoNot surprised by this move, the UK is preparing to silence dissent, for a very simple reason: tough times ahead. Guardian reported yesterday the UK might face food shortages, their young are increasingly burdened with supporting the triple lock through their taxes, and people are making exit plans rathert than be milked for their hard work.
- larodi 1mo agoWhat if I wear adversarial makeup which fucks up my facial vectors ?
- codedokode 1mo agoI noticed that in my country delivery couriers on e-bikes sometimes cover their face completely, with a balaclava and a ski mask. They ride at high speeds around pedestrians, break all traffic rules and obviously they prefer to opt out from facial recognition. Maybe we should start wearing masks in public too. There is no upsides in going around with an open face.
- inigyou 1mo agoIn France and Germany it's illegal to wear a mask in public. If it's not already in the UK, I'm sure it soon will be.
- 0sdi 1mo agodoes this include Respiratory protection masks? The ones we just were pressured to always wear in public.
- inigyou 1mo agoYes, they're illegal but the law is only enforced selectively.
- codedokode 1mo agoWhat about Muslim clothes that cover the face entirely?
- inigyou 1mo agoThey are illegal.
- SettembreNero 1mo ago...they are banned as well?
- surcap526 1mo ago[dead]
- WhereIsTheTruth 1mo agoThe UK spent years denouncing China for scanning their own citizens faces in public, to finally do it themselves They became the very thing they called the enemy of their own citizens The irony.. Begs the question: what's next?
- incognos 1mo agoAnd this is how new makeup trends will get started to fool the facial recognition
- gitowiec 1mo agoUnsafe UK https://rapeganginquiry.co.uk https://rapeganginquiry.co.uk
- gordian-mind 1mo agoGood. It’s high time we used modern technology to make public transportation safer. Soon there’ll be nowhere left to harass strangers in public. If that’s too Orwellian for you, feel free to bike.
- ulfw 1mo agoYou think people on bike's won't get picked up and facially recognised by the several million of CCTV cameras in the UK?
- gordian-mind 1mo agoI'm sure you'll find some trick to not get recognized, wear some glasses or a surgical mask.
- ornornor 1mo agoWhy is Britain police and government seemingly sp eager to build a panopticon? I get it’s the trend worldwide but I’ve always had the impression Britain goes the extra mile and is well above the general level of surveillance typically found in western societies. I remember about 20 years ago when I lived in London, you had to provide ID to enter clubs. Ok, to check your age. But the bouncers would also scan your id into machines at the entrance that recorded you were there “for your security, and if you don’t want you don’t get in”. Why? See also the vast number of CCTV cameras all over London, more than most capitals in western societies have. And I suspect it started way before that, see Orwell 1984 for instance. Where is this obsession coming from??
- MetroWind 1mo agoWhat? They didn't even bother to use child safety as an excuse?