14 ms·

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend oth

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

GrowingSideways 8mo ago
Can you interpret this comment for those of us that haven't used windows? All i can recall from "vista" is that it looked good
- ianbutler 8mo ago
  MetroUI in Windows 8 was pretty universally panned. I thought it was pretty good on tablets and such, but it left a lot to be desired on desktops and hid a lot of functionality, it went too mobile for a lot of people's tastes. Disclaimer: I was one of the dozens who used a windows phone. The Nokia Lumia 920 was great, you can fight me.
  - stevage 8mo ago
    I think a lot of people liked the Windows mobile experience. Shame it didn't quite get enough market share.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      Resetting the app ecosystem 3 fucking times by breaking app compatibility didn't help. Windows Phone 7 - Windows Phone 8 -> Windows (Phone?) 10.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - ulbu 8mo ago
        i guess they needed to release all that pent up backwards incompatibility
        SuperNinKenDo 8mo ago
        You joke, but I honestly wonder if this period and projects didn't involve a bunch of Microsoft employees who got a little overexcited when they were told that they didn't need to maintain the insane, sometimes bug-for-bug, compatibility layers with 20-40 year old software that they had had to deal with their entire career there. Must have felt incredibly liberating, and maybe they got a little too into the whole idea of "fresh start"(s). See also Windows RT.
      - hyperrail 8mo ago
        Wrong. There was full app compat of WP7 apps in WP8 and Win10 Mobile, and for WP8 apps in W10M. The only full backward app compat break was from WM6.5/WP6.5 to WP7. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're thinking of the lack of device OS upgrades: from WP6.5 to WP7, from WP7 to WP8, and from older WP8 devices to W10M. So no forward compat, but absolutely yes to backward compat.
        sirwhinesalot 8mo ago
        That's not what they mean. As a developer, the API you used to develop your app was now deprecated with no migration path. That meant your app was deprecated, with no migration path. For an app platform already a distant third place and struggling to attract developers, pissing off the few devs you do have TWICE was not a smart move.
        hyperrail 8mo ago
        Even then, that happened at most twice as you say, not three times as the other poster said. And I disagree with your implicit claim that the WP7 & WP8 Silverlight -> Win10 UWP transition had no migration path. There was >= 90% source code similarity, bolstered if you had already adopted the Win8.1/WP8.1 "universal" project templates. And Microsoft provided tooling to ease the transition. Sometimes it was literally just s/Microsoft.Phone/Windows.UI/g. Games were a different matter, I'll admit. XNA as an app platform had no direct replacement that was binary compatible with Win10 desktop, but even then, not only was DirectX already available from WP8.0, but Microsoft invested in MonoGame as an XNA replacement precisely because they knew the end of XNA would hit hard. (In fact it was the Windows Phone division that had essentially kept XNA on life support in its final years so that WP7 games would not break.)
        vjvjvjvjghv 8mo ago
        "the API you used to develop your app was now deprecated with no migration path." Seems that's the standard now for .NET desktop dev. Every 2 or 3 years MS crank out a new XAML based framework that's not compatible with the previous and never gets completed before a new framework comes out.
- its-summertime 8mo ago
  Windows 8 featured a notable paradigm shift from a menuing launcher (click start, programs, then the program you want, as an example), to a full screen launcher (Think Android and iOS). And also switched from floating windows (The default for most Linux distros and for Mac AFAIK) to rudimentary tiling windows (Think Android and iOS) https://youtu.be/RuuqEZnvEoU?t=30 https://youtu.be/RuuqEZnvEoU?t=30
- airstrike 8mo ago
  from my own personal experience, Vista was very slow and buggy at launch, but it did get better over time
- nntwozz 8mo ago
  Apple had one of the most successful and known ad campaigns "I'm a mac and I'm a PC" ridiculing Windows Vista, they pretty much summed it up in those. Getting to Windows 11 today, they have ads in the Start menu. Not exactly appealing to the Apple crowd…
  - Gigachad 8mo ago
    They also ridiculed the permissions popups. But now when I plug my AirPods to charge on my MacBook it opens a permissions popup.
    - locusofself 8mo ago
      yet there is no way to get my iPhone to stop auto-switching bluetooth audio between my devices. Any time I get in my car, my headphones connect to the car and I have to switch it back. So annoying
      - nntwozz 8mo ago
        This was added in iOS 26. https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-can-solve-common-bluetooth-issue/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-ca... In iOS 26, you can keep audio playing with your headphones by enabling the new "Keep Audio with Headphones" setting, found in Settings > General > AirPlay & Continuity, which stops audio from automatically switching to nearby devices like car stereos or Bluetooth speakers when you're already connected to your headphones. This setting, which is off by default, ensures your music, calls, or podcasts stay with your AirPods or wireless headphones, preventing frustrating interruptions when you start your car or enter a room with another speaker.
        locusofself 8mo ago
        Sadly this didn't work. I have no idea why. Others have reported the same. Maybe because I'm using regular bluetooth and not an Apple branded product? I have a Tesla.
        8mo ago
- dlivingston 8mo ago
  Microsoft's Copilot AI software has been integrated in every corner of the operating system, from the start menu to the notepad to settings. Beyond the intrusiveness of it, it also does not work very well. Other AI mishaps include Recall, which takes screenshots of your desktop every so often, and the original version of Recall stored these in an unencrypted, insecure database. On top of that, the OS feels more bloated and disorganized than ever, with something like six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS; system settings are scattered across the Settings app (new) and various legacy panels like Control Panel and Network Connections. What else... Microsoft now requires an online connection and Microsoft account to sign in to your PC; no more local-only accounts allowed. I'm sure there's more I'm missing. It's not a pleasant operating system.
  - Wistar 8mo ago
    I added a local-only account to a Win 11 Pro box just two days ago. Nothing seems different to me—the usual horsing around with the no online account stuff but it let me create the account.
    - esseph 8mo ago
      Pro will allow it. Home which is what comes with most computers, does not now.
  - timpera 8mo ago
    I find that it is quite a pleasant operating system! Recall is turned off by default and Copilot never nags you to use it (like Gemini on Chromebooks/Google Search/Google Docs does). I completely agree with the UI frameworks thing though. They really need to remove the Control Panel.
    - _carbyau_ 8mo ago
      > They really need to remove the Control Panel. ... they really need to provide 100% coverage to all the same settings, THEN remove the control panel.
    - 8mo ago
- Novosell 8mo ago
  Windows 8 was when Microsoft tried to cater more towards Windows-on-tablet use cases. Which lead to everyone, including desktop users, having a fullscreen phone-style app menu take the place of the old start menu. This, for desktop use, is obviously quite disruptive and was hated by everyone. They addressed most issues in the 8.1 update, like a year later I think.
  - doubled112 8mo ago
    You know what was worse than desktop users? Server users via RDP. There was no start button. There are no screen edges to swipe in from. Hot corners are really hard to hit. I still can't believe somebody said "yes, good idea" to using that UI for Server 2012.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      I RDP'd into a Windows Server VM a year or so ago and got a full-screen popup for Edge or some shit like that. If that wasn't bad enough, the popup was a web view, meaning none of RDP's acceleration/client-side compositing was in play and I was greeted with a ~1fps slideshow.
- einr 8mo ago
  Off the top of my head: Windows Vista was slow and unstable on a lot of hardware of the time due to significantly higher system requirements than XP and a new display driver model that worked poorly at first, had a very polarizing look, and had quite overbearing UAC -- where XP would just let you do the thing, Vista would ask you three times if you're really really sure you wanted to authorize it. It had decent bones though -- arguably a lot of its bad reputation was due to hardware/third party driver issues and people trying to run it on old hardware that just couldn't hack it. Windows 7 was well received and is basically the same thing with small improvements and some of the UX issues smoothed over (i.e. less annoying UAC)
  - overfeed 8mo ago
    Windows Vista was also notorious for going overboard with translucency effects in the default "Aero" style
    - xmddmx 8mo ago
      My memory is that it was named "Aero Glass" which heightens the irony of "Liquid Glass" sucking. But I see many references to it being called just "Aero", but some call it "Aero Glass" [1] Does anyone know the truth? [1] https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-sticks-a-fork-in-familiar-ui-298095 https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-stick...
      - overfeed 8mo ago
        Microsoft marketing maybhave had a specific preference, but "Aero" and "Aero Glass" are interchangeable. From the same article you linked: > "Rest in peace, Aero. I liked you, a lot. Still do. And I'll miss you," Thurrott writes
- Nextgrid 8mo ago
  The Vista comparison is unfair. I think a lot of the bad rap Vista got was from trying to run it on underpowered hardware thanks to marketing XP-era machines as "Windows Vista Capable". I actually ran it on good HW (the kind that could run Crysis) and I didn't have anything bad to say. Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit). Comparing Vista to modern macOS is insulting. Vista didn't have that level of jank and the UIs were actually quite good, consistent and with reasonable information density, unlike "System Settings" or shitty Catalyst apps.
  - ziml77 8mo ago
    > Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit). It was wild to me when I was testing out if I wanted to move over to Linux as my full-time desktop OS how much it was asking for my password. And it didn't even have a mechanism to make it a little less painful such as requesting a short PIN (which I think is a fine option as long as a few incorrect PIN entries forces full password input).
    - smrq 8mo ago
      Give your user NOPASSWD if it's really that bothersome. You can also potentially set it up to use a fingerprint reader if you have that hardware.
      - Nextgrid 8mo ago
        Yep on the terminal that would work... though I still think it should be the default. On the other hand I'm not sure NOPASSWD would affect desktop environments - any desktop stuff goes via PolicyKit or whatever the latest systemd iteration is and I doubt it's smart enough to read Sudo's config (and there's an argument it shouldn't - if anything it should be the other way around, a system-wide generic "this is single-user machine, the only user is effectively root anyway" flag that both Sudo and Polkit should obey). In both cases yes it's solvable, but I wish it became the default if there are no other interactive user accounts, or at least be easy to configure - if anything, by a simple "don't ask me again" on the permissions popup.
- lunar_rover 8mo ago
  Vista had the right direction, Windows 7 merely continued on it and it became one of the best operating systems ever. Windows 8 design wasn't bad per se, but they shipped the start screen when it lacks even the most basic features, so you'll return to legacy desktop the moment you want to do anything. I don't think any of them are like Tahoe TBH.
nntwozz 8mo ago
Not to beat on my own drum but as a mac convert from the days of Tiger I saw the writing on the wall from miles away. Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different. It's worrisome but all is not lost, I'll start sweating for real if next year's releases don't improve things substantially.
- nextos 8mo ago
  The Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked. There was also a great boutique apps ecosystem. Right now, it seems that macOS is going through its enshittification phase, sadly.
  - stevage 8mo ago
    I still remember Snow Leopard - I think that's when I started using Mac. Most of the upgrades since then I have resisted and not enjoyed, though I seem to recall liking Mavericks. A lot of the big features each time seem to be about tieing further into the Apple ecosystem, which doesn't interest me at all, since I have no other devices and don't use iCloud.
  - JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
    > Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked Was it also great for developers? (Genuine question.)
    - billylo 8mo ago
      xcode has been getting better bit-by-bit. No major regression.
    - zokier 8mo ago
      I'm not mac dev but wasn't apple all in on objc back then and these days it's more swift? that is pretty big shift, I'd assume for the better for most parts.
foxandmouse 8mo ago
> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Yes, but Linux is finally in that position, not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- bsimpson 8mo ago
  I fell down the Nix hole this weekend, getting my corp Mac and my SteamOS Legion Go sharing a config. My corp device is a 5k iMac Pro that is going to be kicked off of the network when ARM-only Tahoe becomes mandatory later this year. I work at Google, which issued a Gubuntu workstation by default when I joined. I exchanged it for a Mac, which I've spent a literal lifetime using, because I didn't wanna fall down a Linux tinkering hole trying to make Gubuntu feel like home. Every corp device I've had has been a Mac. I'm reading this from a coffee shop. On my walk here, I was idly wondering if I should give Glinux (as its now called) a try when I'm forced to replace the iMac. SteamOS is making Linux my default environment in the same way Mac was for decades prior.
  - theodric 8mo ago
    > ARM-only Tahoe Tahoe supports x86. It's the last macOS release that will do so. Did you mean that Google is banning any non-ARM Tahoe box?
    - bsimpson 8mo ago
      Well I guess the iMac Pro isn't on the lucky list then. I know it's losing updates (and therefore support) this year. Unfortunately, I looked into it, and my other options are an Asus CX54 Chromebook or a Lenovo X1. There simply aren't competitive alternatives to Mac hardware, at least not at modern Google.
- dmitrygr 8mo ago
  > not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices. [[citation needed]], benchmarks please, incl battery life, not promises. "We are seeing" implies reality
jazzyjackson 8mo ago
> "I wish I didn’t.” Can't you do a factory reset/recovery on Mac that lands on the version of macos shipped with the device? Then you could re-upgrade to the os you wanted, without trying it it seems Sequoia is still available in the app store
- trollbridge 8mo ago
  Yes, you can install any version of macOS that was ever supported for your Mac. (It’s been a long time since they used System Enablers.) I’m so frustrated with Tahoe that I’m about to do this.
  - valleyer 8mo ago
    But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only. This isn't a problem if you are willing to e.g. re-download all of your (Mail.app) mail.
    - trollbridge 8mo ago
      I generally just “reload” everything.
    - ValentineC 8mo ago
      > But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only. One huge reason to use third-party programs where possible. I dislike Apple's tight coupling of utilities as it is.
      - valleyer 8mo ago
        Yep, that's a great workaround, as long as you have third-party apps you're happy with.
    - xoa 8mo ago
      Yep, though you can mitigate it a little bit in various ways. For one weird example, I keep my main user Home folder on my NAS and mount it via iSCSI. Mostly that's for data integrity/size/backup purposes, but it does also make it free to snapshot before trying out a system upgrade. If I hate it I can rollback my entire set of user data along with the OS. Though amongst many other wonderful things lost in the mysts of Mac history I still desperately miss NetBoot/NetInstall and ultra easy clone/boot with something like CCC and TDM. It's so fucking miserable now in comparison to do reinstalls/testing/restores.
testing22321 8mo ago
Thanks for the advise. I have not upgraded, and have no plan to.
layer8 8mo ago
At least on Windows 11 it’s possible to disable the rounded corners.
- cestith 8mo ago
  Only because those aren’t required for account centralization, advertising in the main OS menu, or AI “features”.
- userbinator 8mo ago
  It's also for a rather unbelievable reason --- if your GPU is not "powerful enough", you don't get rounded corners by default. You read that right: apparently rounded corners are so resource-intensive that if you don't have or disable GPU acceleration, they'll disappear. As much as I absolutely hate rounded corners in general, it's astonishing the apparent inefficiency with which MS have implemented them. Then again, mediocrity seems to be par for the course with their developers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743687
taminka 8mo ago
first time i used tahoe to help a friend w/ their laptop i legit thought it was like a knockoff macos or something, genuinely the ugliest macos version and even in the brief time that i've used it, i've encountered annoying bugs, QC at apple is dead lowkey
- MarleTangible 8mo ago
  When the iOS 26 video player first leaked, I thought to myself, this has to be some kind of April 1st joke or a knock-off smear campaign or something. Nope, Apple did really half-assed their entire iOS to the ground.
napierzaza 8mo ago
[dead]
iLemming 8mo ago
One of the most annoying things after installing Tahoe for me, that for no good reason an ordinary app would randomly lose its focus. In the midst of my typing. This is unbelievably preposterous and I just can't stop hating Apple for this crap. How the fuck this is acceptable? I just have no words. What makes it even worse that I couldn't even complain about it on their support pages - they just keep removing my comments for being "non-constructive". This is some random bug, and many people have complained about it, how am I suppose to make it "more constructive"? Send them the exact configuration of constellations, the number of monitors I use and their positioning angles, log the keyboard rate and delay, the latency, the level of magnetic interference caused by my Bluetooth devices, etc.?
- shortercode 8mo ago
  I looked into this and the issue is the inbuilt SecurityAgent briefly taking focus. For me I believe it’s related to some management setting our company has added not getting on with Tahoe.
- anon373839 8mo ago
  I have no information to add, but I also have started experiencing this after “upgrading” to Tahoe. Never was a problem before.
- steve_taylor 8mo ago
  Focus stealing has been an issue in windowed multi-tasking environments from the beginning. It's certainly been an issue in all macOS/OS X versions I've used since I started in 2011.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 8mo ago
    I've been using windowed multi-tasking environments since 1986. Never been a problem for me (SunOS -> Solaris -> Linux). I rely very, very, very much on focus-follows-mouse.
  - asystole 8mo ago
    This bug isn't that. It's the frontmost app losing focus to nothing.
selfmodruntime 8mo ago
I had to upgrade my iPhone to iOS 26 to setup my watch. I wish I had never done it. Nothing is where it's supposed to be from a UI perspective. Stuff breaks often. I can't use my contact search bar to search contacts. It only searches past calls. What the hell.
- usefulcat 8mo ago
  I don't like all the changes either, but I just opened the contacts app and started typing a name and it showed me exactly what I expected--several of my contacts with the name I typed. iOS 26.2.
ost-ing 8mo ago
Apple software has noticeably declined from my experience, both iOS and macOS. I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also. If I buy a product and the hardware is good for 10 years (because I looked after it), I expect the software to also run just as well as when I purchased it - that is the case with Linux, why isn't it the case with macOS? Every year the software upgrades invariably degrade system performance. Outrageous.
- mschuster91 8mo ago
  > I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also. Apple is miles ahead of Android when it comes to phones and tablets, most in the Android ecosystem is e-waste four or five years in, while Apple stuff can still be re-sold for actual money at that time assuming you didn't bust your screen. For laptops, Apple is so far ahead it can't even be described. Most Windows laptops physically break apart before macOS ceases to support any Apple laptop. Only thing we can maybe talk about is desktop PCs ever since the switch to M that basically made meaningful upgrades impossible, but eh, in my attic there's a 2009 Mac Pro still chugging along as my homelab server + gaming rig.
  - chadcmulligan 8mo ago
    I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016 for dev still works great, and its still better than every windows laptop available now. The touchpad itself is still superior - its crazy when you think about it. I know people on their 3rd or 4th windows laptop since I've been using mine. I tried a M4 recently and its battery life is fantastic, and its faster so I'll probably upgrade when this one dies, but it still works well. Edit: just did a google and it seems I can still sell it for about $600AUD, I don't know how anyone is buying a non apple lap top.
  - ost-ing 8mo ago
    The hardware is very good, it can absolutely last 10 years and is miles ahead of competition - which pains me even more that the software degrades. I will eventually install linux on my M1 but I shouldn’t have to.
  - 8mo ago
scarlehoff 8mo ago
I agree. This is the first time I regret updating macOs. I hoped the .1 or .2 would fix things, but I'm still seeing glitches and even random freezes. Microsoft is a disaster right now, but if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux.
- type0 8mo ago
  > if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux. Unfortunately Intel is cutting down their Linux involvement so I wouldn't have high hopes for it. Newer AMD laptops are probably on par with Intel on Linux now.
  - 72deluxe 8mo ago
    It's a pity Lenovo isn't doing Linux support for their Snapdragon laptops. I'd switch.
mschuster91 8mo ago
> Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. Other than that weird resize thing written about here (which I didn't notice, thanks SizeUp for providing me with hotkeys remarkably similar to Windows) - why? Vista and 8 were immediately obvious changes in the UI, but in general it still looks and feels just like macOS has for well over a decade now. New icons, new fonts, but... that's it? Oh and HyperSwitch for some reason can't switch to Finder windows any more, but that's probably because HyperSwitch hasn't seen an upgrade in years...
kaashif 8mo ago
I switched from Windows 11 to macOS after a disastrous upgrade experience and drastic downgrade in performance on my Windows laptop. I mean Windows 10 wasn't great but I got used to the taskbar searching the web somehow and the dual config menus everywhere and so on. But 11 was just terrible. macOS has its pain points but man oh man what a disaster Windows is. I have had Linux on my personal desktop and laptop forever so that hasn't been an issue, only used Windows for work.
victor106 8mo ago
I agree. I have been kind of an Apple fanboy but the Tahoe thing is one of the worst products to come out of the company. I really think people should be fired for releasing this. This is akin to MobileMe - https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-email https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-...
rayiner 8mo ago
It’s such an utter piece of crap.
dont__panic 8mo ago
Unfortunately for Apple, Linux has not rotted the same way that macOS has. Will Linux win the desktop wars through attrition because it won't suffer the same enshittification as for-profit software? If it wasn't for Apple Silicon and its stellar impact on battery life, I'd be gone. iOS 26 might make it happen anyway!
bitfilped 8mo ago
I hope so, Tahoe seems particularly bad, but the downhill slide has been happening for several releases.
jader201 8mo ago
I was in the market for a new MBP (still on my 2015 MBP). After all of these articles and reports of how terrible Tahoe is, I’m holding off. I’m hoping they’ll wake up and fix this with the next release, but I’m not super optimistic. We’ll see.
- acdha 8mo ago
  The M4 I bought last month shipped without Tahoe and hasn’t been updated. If you can get one which isn’t already upgraded, you can leave it on the better release as long as Sequoia was ever supported on that generation.
pier25 8mo ago
Staying with Sequoia and iOS 18 for as long as I can.
ryukoposting 8mo ago
Apple's worst release in years (maybe ever), Microsoft's worst release in years (maybe ever), meanwhile mainstream Linux UX has been taking baby steps forward on a nearly-daily basis for a decade straight. I'm not saying 2026 is the year, but...
- whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
  Tried Linux (Omachy) recently and the mouse pointer drops frames or chokes movement under load. Just can't use an OS that does that full stop.
  - _fat_santa 8mo ago
    I wouldn't call Omarchy "mainstream". Yes it's very popular among developers but that's about it and under the hood it uses some pretty non-mainstream components like Hyplrand WM. I would argue the OS closest to "mainstream Linux" is Ubuntu or Fedora with Gnome DE. Gnome has many many faults but it's probably the closest DE you're going to get to what Windows and MacOS have.
    - whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
      I'll give one of the more mainstream ones a try when I have a free afternoon, frustrating thing was it wasn't underpowered at all this was with a RTX3090 so very concerning investing in that, perhaps wrongly assumed Wayland etc would have been a similar feel to Mac Quartz Composer fluidity by now.
      - physPop 8mo ago
        it does but you need various config tweaks
  - GreenWatermelon 8mo ago
    Oh God you fell for the hype and used DHH's juiced up distro. I encourage you to try a properly maintained distro e.g. Ubuntu, Fedora, or Leap instead of a racist narcissist's hobby project.
CGMthrowaway 8mo ago
>Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. Are you just saying that because it has new glassy windows and is a resource hog? What is that different about Tahoe vs Sequoia?
- TuxSH 8mo ago
  Not OP, but there are plenty of minor annoyances (I had the "pleasure" of upgrading my work laptop to Tahoe) : - Apple Music requires one more click to pop the multiplayer, UI is worse and the click hitbox for the progress seek bar is too small - Volume +/- now acts like a notification (top-right corner of screen and clickable). Horrible design decision (gets in the way of browser tabs) - The "A > B > C" folder thingy at the bottom of Finder windows is gone, and the tabs' styling looks unsettling - Weather (and Stocks, to a lesser degree) looks worse, lots of space wasted
weaksauce 8mo ago
though use linux is in a great state. tahoe and windows are really bad right now and i don't regret moving to linux even a little bit.
neonmagenta 8mo ago
oof. i'll be holding off after seeing all this. already have to deal with adobe's bad updates
btbuildem 8mo ago
The most annoying part about it is they won't admit the obvious colossal mistake and fix it. I've blocked Apple's update servers via /etc/hosts so this monstrous thing doesn't sneak onto my machine in the middle of the night, still happily on Sequoia.
inquirerGeneral 8mo ago
[dead]
caro_kann 8mo ago
When I saw the first liquid glass demo I decided not to upgrade both my phone and macbook for couple of years to come till they fix it.
ramijames 8mo ago
The worst part is the audiocore substack that is glitching. I waited to major subversions to upgrade and still got bit. I hate this.
- dunham 8mo ago
  Yeah, for me with a USB headset, the audio will go noisy about two minutes into a video / podcast. It clears up if I restart and doesn't happen when playing to the internal speakers.
  - ramijames 8mo ago
    sudo killall coreaudiod in the terminal will restart the audio stack without having to restart the full computer. Super annoying.
cyri 8mo ago
same here. still running on the previous version on all devices. Gonna sit this out ...
danaris 8mo ago
Given the departure of Alan Dye and his replacement with someone (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) who comes from an actual UI design background, I am very optimistic that the next few iterations of macOS and iOS will actually start to improve the UI situation.
- MarleTangible 8mo ago
  I still think Alan Dye was secretly fired. When you live in a bubble and everybody around you is propping you up, you think everything is fine and dandy, but users don't care about your or anybody's feelings. Dye didn't bring something that users didn't know they needed, he brought chaos to the entire ecosystem, and he's the only Apple executive folks are willing to talk garbage about.
  - danaris 8mo ago
    I mean, it feels like it would make some sense, and honestly I'd love for it to be true—but everything I've heard, from people who know Apple much better than me and/or have inside sources, is that not only was he not secretly fired, his departure blindsided the C-suite. If Cook and his other senior staff had recognized the problems Dye was causing and wanted him gone, what possible motivation would they have to make his firing secret? How could it possibly serve them better to have it look like they were chumps?
jwr 8mo ago
Tahoe actually harms their hardware sales. I would normally upgrade to the latest MacBook Pro as soon as they become available, but I know that the next M5 generation will come with Tahoe installed and I intend to keep my current machine for as long as I can…
- gherkinnn 8mo ago
  The M1 hurt their future hardware sales, as now, 5 years later, it remains a viable machine. The M1 MacBook Air has become a bit of a meme.
- grliga 8mo ago
  similar here, i bought refurb m3 mbp last nov just to get pre-tahoe
mkzet 8mo ago
I regret dearly the upgrade as well. I've turned a beautiful $3500 hardware into a close to Windows Vista machine that frustrates me daily. Just looking at it kills my productivity instantly, I just use full screen for all my apps now.
ketzu 8mo ago
> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Yes, because my apple hardware does not run properly with any other operating system. I would have switched to linux a while ago otherwise.
- mcv 8mo ago
  I would love linux on Apple hardware. Lots of people would, I suspect. I guess Apple has realized that their hardware is so good that they don't have to worry about the software anymore.
bluescrn 8mo ago
> Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista Not even close. It's taken a few steps in the wrong direction, but nothing compaered to the user-hostility of Win8 (attempting to move users from 'real Windows' into locked-down dumbed-down touch-centric mobile-like app store hell), let alone Win11 (creating an e-waste mountain, then pushing AI slop into everything)
gherkinnn 8mo ago
Tahoe is a bit shit, yes. But I was there for both Vista and Windows 8 and they were both utterly unusable. Vista ate every bit of RAM it could find, had severe driver issues and riddled with instabilities. It would not run on half the hardware at the time. I faintly remember a DX10 shitshow as well. And 8 hopelessly tried to apply Metro to the desktop and added a third (or was it forth?) settings panel. Also killed the Start menu.
- MarleTangible 8mo ago
  Just to be playful, Tahoe killed the launchpad and brought us the random size rounded corner madness.
gkanai 8mo ago
I am still on Sequoia and dont plan to move to Tahoe.
fatata123 8mo ago
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bborud 8mo ago
I don't understand why Apple change things needlessly. What other purpose does it serve? How does this positively affect the bottom line? How does it improve life for Apple's users? Breaking basic interaction with windows purely because someone feels we should waste more screen real-estate on ornamentation by having bigger radius rounded corners is, for lack of a better word, stupid. I'd like Apple to focus more on the things that actually matter to users. To fix bugs, to work on performance, to simplify things rather than complicate them. Focus on making it a better platform for doing work and less a playground for pointless fiddling with design and sloppiness.
- renegade-otter 8mo ago
  There has to be work done. Each sprint, new FEATURES must be completed. Features, people, FEATURES.
  - dillydogg 8mo ago
    We finally have processors in our pockets that can calculate the pretty lights and colors, so make them calculate, people!
    - bborud 8mo ago
      I’d like to use that extra processing and efficiency to get longer battery life when the phone isn’t doing anything special, and to have better performing apps.
- gwbas1c 8mo ago
  Because if you don't make periodic cosmetic changes, people will think you're going out of business. It's why your favorite shoe company, that you buy from every 2-3 years when you wear out your favorite shoes, always has new styles and discontinues other styles. Converse is a great example.
  - autoexec 8mo ago
    Generally I agree with you. My advice is that when you find a pair or shoes you like pick up at least 3 pair because by the time you need to replace them they'll be gone, but Converse isn't a great example of that because I can get a pair of Chucks which look/fit basically exactly like any pair I've ever had. It's actually kind of nice that Converse doesn't seem to play the same game as the tennis/running shoes I wear out.
codyb 8mo ago
When I read the welcome screen which includes the "hit features", all I remember was "You can change your icons!" - What? Was that the big issue of my day? (Although, after I saw what they had done to them, it certainly loomed larger in my mind) and "Notification summaries that may be incorrect" Miserable. Won't be upgrading the personal computer, am fast moving away from Apple as a whole, am telling others not to upgrade for as long as possible.
ubermonkey 8mo ago
I'm as picky as the next guy, but I'm not seeing Tahoe being THAT BAD. I was holding off, but various events led to me buying a new laptop so I got it by default. Resizing isn't great, but it's also deeply shitty in Win 11. I feel like window manager thought leadership has failed across the board, but the regression isn't that big of a deal in day to day usage, and is definitely not unique to Apple.
leokennis 8mo ago
I'm not sure if it's pure nostalgia but I long back to the "Lion era" of OS X. Apple had a HIG and third party developers used it. Different apps looked consistent: toolbar, sidebar etc. Apps had borders. If there was too much content there were big blue scrollbars. Buttons had borders. Windows had texture. You could find stuff. I could go on forever. But the OS was simultaneously better visible to the eye, and less visible to the mind. Stuff worked.
ksec 8mo ago
> iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits Or iOS 8 and 9 did revert back a lot of iOS 7 changes. I am not against changing UI, but it seems every time they are doing it they forgot all the lesson learned from previous attempt, and in such short period of time suggest they haven't learned anything.
- MarleTangible 8mo ago
  And that's exactly why I'm waiting for the 27 series to upgrade.
balops 8mo ago
Windows vista was a good OS. Windows 7 was vista with a new skin. People were just really dumb and didn’t realise vista needed new drivers and when 7 came out all the drivers were written so stuff worked and for some reason it made people think 7 was good and vista was bad.
ekropotin 8mo ago
I have maybe unpopular opinion, but Apple always been terrible in UX. Just to give a few examples which annoys me the most: - Finder. It just something else. After 10 years of using OSX I still can’t figure out how to use it efficiently for selecting the path - this experience is different every time, depending on the context where Finder was called from. I just don’t get. - Lack of the true tiling window manager experience. Yes, there is Yabai, but it still suck due to the fact that you can’t have truly independent spaces each with individual layout and stack of windows. - Infamous Magic Mouse’s charting port at the bottom. I just wish I could have normal Linux natively on MB Pro.
- dlandis 8mo ago
  Regarding the window manager and Finder; I had a better experience with the Windows equivalents way back on Windows 2k or even Windows 98 more than quarter century ago. Truly baffling.
  - 72deluxe 8mo ago
    Yes, even the Windows 98 Explorer with IE integration (let's load a JPG of clouds to the left of the file detail pane) was better than modern equivalents. In Windows 10 (or was it 7?) they introduced a stupid column view in detail view that became focused with tab, so you couldn't just tab between the 3 places of directory list, file pane, address bar. They also added stupid "quick launch" areas with places nobody went, like "3D Objects", and reduced the menu area to a "grope and find a button" ribbon. The older Explorers were usable like File Manager on Windows 3.11 was: address bars that were usable from the keyboard and mouse (no subdivision buttons for parts of the path), acceptable launch speed, and no extra "features" that were unnecessary (like it ignoring "use same view for all folders" when your directory happens to have MP3s in it - it'll switch to showing rating / bitrate etc.) I believe all developers should use older versions of the software to see how usable they were in comparison to the modern "improvement".
lostlogin 8mo ago
Tahoe: The opposite of Snow Leopard.
72deluxe 8mo ago
I wonder if they'll show charts of how few people have upgraded in the same way they mocked Windows 10 adoption and Android versions a few years ago at the Keynote, to rapturous applause. I for one am staying on Sequoia as the OS looks like a children's toy on Tahoe.
michelb 8mo ago
I do hope things turn around, but having to wait until September is going to be painful.

GrowingSideways 8mo ago

Can you interpret this comment for those of us that haven't used windows? All i can recall from "vista" is that it looked good

ianbutler 8mo ago
MetroUI in Windows 8 was pretty universally panned. I thought it was pretty good on tablets and such, but it left a lot to be desired on desktops and hid a lot of functionality, it went too mobile for a lot of people's tastes. Disclaimer: I was one of the dozens who used a windows phone. The Nokia Lumia 920 was great, you can fight me.
- stevage 8mo ago
  I think a lot of people liked the Windows mobile experience. Shame it didn't quite get enough market share.
  - Nextgrid 8mo ago
    Resetting the app ecosystem 3 fucking times by breaking app compatibility didn't help. Windows Phone 7 - Windows Phone 8 -> Windows (Phone?) 10.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - ulbu 8mo ago
      i guess they needed to release all that pent up backwards incompatibility
      - SuperNinKenDo 8mo ago
        You joke, but I honestly wonder if this period and projects didn't involve a bunch of Microsoft employees who got a little overexcited when they were told that they didn't need to maintain the insane, sometimes bug-for-bug, compatibility layers with 20-40 year old software that they had had to deal with their entire career there. Must have felt incredibly liberating, and maybe they got a little too into the whole idea of "fresh start"(s). See also Windows RT.
    - hyperrail 8mo ago
      Wrong. There was full app compat of WP7 apps in WP8 and Win10 Mobile, and for WP8 apps in W10M. The only full backward app compat break was from WM6.5/WP6.5 to WP7. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're thinking of the lack of device OS upgrades: from WP6.5 to WP7, from WP7 to WP8, and from older WP8 devices to W10M. So no forward compat, but absolutely yes to backward compat.
      - sirwhinesalot 8mo ago
        That's not what they mean. As a developer, the API you used to develop your app was now deprecated with no migration path. That meant your app was deprecated, with no migration path. For an app platform already a distant third place and struggling to attract developers, pissing off the few devs you do have TWICE was not a smart move.
        hyperrail 8mo ago
        Even then, that happened at most twice as you say, not three times as the other poster said. And I disagree with your implicit claim that the WP7 & WP8 Silverlight -> Win10 UWP transition had no migration path. There was >= 90% source code similarity, bolstered if you had already adopted the Win8.1/WP8.1 "universal" project templates. And Microsoft provided tooling to ease the transition. Sometimes it was literally just s/Microsoft.Phone/Windows.UI/g. Games were a different matter, I'll admit. XNA as an app platform had no direct replacement that was binary compatible with Win10 desktop, but even then, not only was DirectX already available from WP8.0, but Microsoft invested in MonoGame as an XNA replacement precisely because they knew the end of XNA would hit hard. (In fact it was the Windows Phone division that had essentially kept XNA on life support in its final years so that WP7 games would not break.)
        vjvjvjvjghv 8mo ago
        "the API you used to develop your app was now deprecated with no migration path." Seems that's the standard now for .NET desktop dev. Every 2 or 3 years MS crank out a new XAML based framework that's not compatible with the previous and never gets completed before a new framework comes out.
its-summertime 8mo ago
Windows 8 featured a notable paradigm shift from a menuing launcher (click start, programs, then the program you want, as an example), to a full screen launcher (Think Android and iOS). And also switched from floating windows (The default for most Linux distros and for Mac AFAIK) to rudimentary tiling windows (Think Android and iOS) https://youtu.be/RuuqEZnvEoU?t=30 https://youtu.be/RuuqEZnvEoU?t=30
airstrike 8mo ago
from my own personal experience, Vista was very slow and buggy at launch, but it did get better over time
nntwozz 8mo ago
Apple had one of the most successful and known ad campaigns "I'm a mac and I'm a PC" ridiculing Windows Vista, they pretty much summed it up in those. Getting to Windows 11 today, they have ads in the Start menu. Not exactly appealing to the Apple crowd…
- Gigachad 8mo ago
  They also ridiculed the permissions popups. But now when I plug my AirPods to charge on my MacBook it opens a permissions popup.
  - locusofself 8mo ago
    yet there is no way to get my iPhone to stop auto-switching bluetooth audio between my devices. Any time I get in my car, my headphones connect to the car and I have to switch it back. So annoying
    - nntwozz 8mo ago
      This was added in iOS 26. https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-can-solve-common-bluetooth-issue/ https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-ca... In iOS 26, you can keep audio playing with your headphones by enabling the new "Keep Audio with Headphones" setting, found in Settings > General > AirPlay & Continuity, which stops audio from automatically switching to nearby devices like car stereos or Bluetooth speakers when you're already connected to your headphones. This setting, which is off by default, ensures your music, calls, or podcasts stay with your AirPods or wireless headphones, preventing frustrating interruptions when you start your car or enter a room with another speaker.
      - locusofself 8mo ago
        Sadly this didn't work. I have no idea why. Others have reported the same. Maybe because I'm using regular bluetooth and not an Apple branded product? I have a Tesla.
      - 8mo ago
dlivingston 8mo ago
Microsoft's Copilot AI software has been integrated in every corner of the operating system, from the start menu to the notepad to settings. Beyond the intrusiveness of it, it also does not work very well. Other AI mishaps include Recall, which takes screenshots of your desktop every so often, and the original version of Recall stored these in an unencrypted, insecure database. On top of that, the OS feels more bloated and disorganized than ever, with something like six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS; system settings are scattered across the Settings app (new) and various legacy panels like Control Panel and Network Connections. What else... Microsoft now requires an online connection and Microsoft account to sign in to your PC; no more local-only accounts allowed. I'm sure there's more I'm missing. It's not a pleasant operating system.
- Wistar 8mo ago
  I added a local-only account to a Win 11 Pro box just two days ago. Nothing seems different to me—the usual horsing around with the no online account stuff but it let me create the account.
  - esseph 8mo ago
    Pro will allow it. Home which is what comes with most computers, does not now.
- timpera 8mo ago
  I find that it is quite a pleasant operating system! Recall is turned off by default and Copilot never nags you to use it (like Gemini on Chromebooks/Google Search/Google Docs does). I completely agree with the UI frameworks thing though. They really need to remove the Control Panel.
  - _carbyau_ 8mo ago
    > They really need to remove the Control Panel. ... they really need to provide 100% coverage to all the same settings, THEN remove the control panel.
  - 8mo ago
Novosell 8mo ago
Windows 8 was when Microsoft tried to cater more towards Windows-on-tablet use cases. Which lead to everyone, including desktop users, having a fullscreen phone-style app menu take the place of the old start menu. This, for desktop use, is obviously quite disruptive and was hated by everyone. They addressed most issues in the 8.1 update, like a year later I think.
- doubled112 8mo ago
  You know what was worse than desktop users? Server users via RDP. There was no start button. There are no screen edges to swipe in from. Hot corners are really hard to hit. I still can't believe somebody said "yes, good idea" to using that UI for Server 2012.
  - Nextgrid 8mo ago
    I RDP'd into a Windows Server VM a year or so ago and got a full-screen popup for Edge or some shit like that. If that wasn't bad enough, the popup was a web view, meaning none of RDP's acceleration/client-side compositing was in play and I was greeted with a ~1fps slideshow.
einr 8mo ago
Off the top of my head: Windows Vista was slow and unstable on a lot of hardware of the time due to significantly higher system requirements than XP and a new display driver model that worked poorly at first, had a very polarizing look, and had quite overbearing UAC -- where XP would just let you do the thing, Vista would ask you three times if you're really really sure you wanted to authorize it. It had decent bones though -- arguably a lot of its bad reputation was due to hardware/third party driver issues and people trying to run it on old hardware that just couldn't hack it. Windows 7 was well received and is basically the same thing with small improvements and some of the UX issues smoothed over (i.e. less annoying UAC)
- overfeed 8mo ago
  Windows Vista was also notorious for going overboard with translucency effects in the default "Aero" style
  - xmddmx 8mo ago
    My memory is that it was named "Aero Glass" which heightens the irony of "Liquid Glass" sucking. But I see many references to it being called just "Aero", but some call it "Aero Glass" [1] Does anyone know the truth? [1] https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-sticks-a-fork-in-familiar-ui-298095 https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-stick...
    - overfeed 8mo ago
      Microsoft marketing maybhave had a specific preference, but "Aero" and "Aero Glass" are interchangeable. From the same article you linked: > "Rest in peace, Aero. I liked you, a lot. Still do. And I'll miss you," Thurrott writes
Nextgrid 8mo ago
The Vista comparison is unfair. I think a lot of the bad rap Vista got was from trying to run it on underpowered hardware thanks to marketing XP-era machines as "Windows Vista Capable". I actually ran it on good HW (the kind that could run Crysis) and I didn't have anything bad to say. Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit). Comparing Vista to modern macOS is insulting. Vista didn't have that level of jank and the UIs were actually quite good, consistent and with reasonable information density, unlike "System Settings" or shitty Catalyst apps.
- ziml77 8mo ago
  > Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit). It was wild to me when I was testing out if I wanted to move over to Linux as my full-time desktop OS how much it was asking for my password. And it didn't even have a mechanism to make it a little less painful such as requesting a short PIN (which I think is a fine option as long as a few incorrect PIN entries forces full password input).
  - smrq 8mo ago
    Give your user NOPASSWD if it's really that bothersome. You can also potentially set it up to use a fingerprint reader if you have that hardware.
    - Nextgrid 8mo ago
      Yep on the terminal that would work... though I still think it should be the default. On the other hand I'm not sure NOPASSWD would affect desktop environments - any desktop stuff goes via PolicyKit or whatever the latest systemd iteration is and I doubt it's smart enough to read Sudo's config (and there's an argument it shouldn't - if anything it should be the other way around, a system-wide generic "this is single-user machine, the only user is effectively root anyway" flag that both Sudo and Polkit should obey). In both cases yes it's solvable, but I wish it became the default if there are no other interactive user accounts, or at least be easy to configure - if anything, by a simple "don't ask me again" on the permissions popup.
lunar_rover 8mo ago
Vista had the right direction, Windows 7 merely continued on it and it became one of the best operating systems ever. Windows 8 design wasn't bad per se, but they shipped the start screen when it lacks even the most basic features, so you'll return to legacy desktop the moment you want to do anything. I don't think any of them are like Tahoe TBH.

nntwozz 8mo ago

Not to beat on my own drum but as a mac convert from the days of Tiger I saw the writing on the wall from miles away. Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different. It's worrisome but all is not lost, I'll start sweating for real if next year's releases don't improve things substantially.

nextos 8mo ago
The Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked. There was also a great boutique apps ecosystem. Right now, it seems that macOS is going through its enshittification phase, sadly.
- stevage 8mo ago
  I still remember Snow Leopard - I think that's when I started using Mac. Most of the upgrades since then I have resisted and not enjoyed, though I seem to recall liking Mavericks. A lot of the big features each time seem to be about tieing further into the Apple ecosystem, which doesn't interest me at all, since I have no other devices and don't use iCloud.
- JumpCrisscross 8mo ago
  > Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked Was it also great for developers? (Genuine question.)
  - billylo 8mo ago
    xcode has been getting better bit-by-bit. No major regression.
  - zokier 8mo ago
    I'm not mac dev but wasn't apple all in on objc back then and these days it's more swift? that is pretty big shift, I'd assume for the better for most parts.

foxandmouse 8mo ago

> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Yes, but Linux is finally in that position, not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
bsimpson 8mo ago
I fell down the Nix hole this weekend, getting my corp Mac and my SteamOS Legion Go sharing a config. My corp device is a 5k iMac Pro that is going to be kicked off of the network when ARM-only Tahoe becomes mandatory later this year. I work at Google, which issued a Gubuntu workstation by default when I joined. I exchanged it for a Mac, which I've spent a literal lifetime using, because I didn't wanna fall down a Linux tinkering hole trying to make Gubuntu feel like home. Every corp device I've had has been a Mac. I'm reading this from a coffee shop. On my walk here, I was idly wondering if I should give Glinux (as its now called) a try when I'm forced to replace the iMac. SteamOS is making Linux my default environment in the same way Mac was for decades prior.
- theodric 8mo ago
  > ARM-only Tahoe Tahoe supports x86. It's the last macOS release that will do so. Did you mean that Google is banning any non-ARM Tahoe box?
  - bsimpson 8mo ago
    Well I guess the iMac Pro isn't on the lucky list then. I know it's losing updates (and therefore support) this year. Unfortunately, I looked into it, and my other options are an Asus CX54 Chromebook or a Lenovo X1. There simply aren't competitive alternatives to Mac hardware, at least not at modern Google.
dmitrygr 8mo ago
> not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices. [[citation needed]], benchmarks please, incl battery life, not promises. "We are seeing" implies reality

jazzyjackson 8mo ago

> "I wish I didn’t.” Can't you do a factory reset/recovery on Mac that lands on the version of macos shipped with the device? Then you could re-upgrade to the os you wanted, without trying it it seems Sequoia is still available in the app store

trollbridge 8mo ago
Yes, you can install any version of macOS that was ever supported for your Mac. (It’s been a long time since they used System Enablers.) I’m so frustrated with Tahoe that I’m about to do this.
- valleyer 8mo ago
  But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only. This isn't a problem if you are willing to e.g. re-download all of your (Mail.app) mail.
  - trollbridge 8mo ago
    I generally just “reload” everything.
  - ValentineC 8mo ago
    > But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only. One huge reason to use third-party programs where possible. I dislike Apple's tight coupling of utilities as it is.
    - valleyer 8mo ago
      Yep, that's a great workaround, as long as you have third-party apps you're happy with.
  - xoa 8mo ago
    Yep, though you can mitigate it a little bit in various ways. For one weird example, I keep my main user Home folder on my NAS and mount it via iSCSI. Mostly that's for data integrity/size/backup purposes, but it does also make it free to snapshot before trying out a system upgrade. If I hate it I can rollback my entire set of user data along with the OS. Though amongst many other wonderful things lost in the mysts of Mac history I still desperately miss NetBoot/NetInstall and ultra easy clone/boot with something like CCC and TDM. It's so fucking miserable now in comparison to do reinstalls/testing/restores.

testing22321 8mo ago

Thanks for the advise. I have not upgraded, and have no plan to.

layer8 8mo ago

At least on Windows 11 it’s possible to disable the rounded corners.

cestith 8mo ago
Only because those aren’t required for account centralization, advertising in the main OS menu, or AI “features”.
userbinator 8mo ago
It's also for a rather unbelievable reason --- if your GPU is not "powerful enough", you don't get rounded corners by default. You read that right: apparently rounded corners are so resource-intensive that if you don't have or disable GPU acceleration, they'll disappear. As much as I absolutely hate rounded corners in general, it's astonishing the apparent inefficiency with which MS have implemented them. Then again, mediocrity seems to be par for the course with their developers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28743687

taminka 8mo ago

first time i used tahoe to help a friend w/ their laptop i legit thought it was like a knockoff macos or something, genuinely the ugliest macos version and even in the brief time that i've used it, i've encountered annoying bugs, QC at apple is dead lowkey

MarleTangible 8mo ago
When the iOS 26 video player first leaked, I thought to myself, this has to be some kind of April 1st joke or a knock-off smear campaign or something. Nope, Apple did really half-assed their entire iOS to the ground.

napierzaza 8mo ago

[dead]

iLemming 8mo ago

One of the most annoying things after installing Tahoe for me, that for no good reason an ordinary app would randomly lose its focus. In the midst of my typing. This is unbelievably preposterous and I just can't stop hating Apple for this crap. How the fuck this is acceptable? I just have no words. What makes it even worse that I couldn't even complain about it on their support pages - they just keep removing my comments for being "non-constructive". This is some random bug, and many people have complained about it, how am I suppose to make it "more constructive"? Send them the exact configuration of constellations, the number of monitors I use and their positioning angles, log the keyboard rate and delay, the latency, the level of magnetic interference caused by my Bluetooth devices, etc.?

shortercode 8mo ago
I looked into this and the issue is the inbuilt SecurityAgent briefly taking focus. For me I believe it’s related to some management setting our company has added not getting on with Tahoe.
anon373839 8mo ago
I have no information to add, but I also have started experiencing this after “upgrading” to Tahoe. Never was a problem before.
steve_taylor 8mo ago
Focus stealing has been an issue in windowed multi-tasking environments from the beginning. It's certainly been an issue in all macOS/OS X versions I've used since I started in 2011.
- PaulDavisThe1st 8mo ago
  I've been using windowed multi-tasking environments since 1986. Never been a problem for me (SunOS -> Solaris -> Linux). I rely very, very, very much on focus-follows-mouse.
- asystole 8mo ago
  This bug isn't that. It's the frontmost app losing focus to nothing.

selfmodruntime 8mo ago

I had to upgrade my iPhone to iOS 26 to setup my watch. I wish I had never done it. Nothing is where it's supposed to be from a UI perspective. Stuff breaks often. I can't use my contact search bar to search contacts. It only searches past calls. What the hell.

usefulcat 8mo ago
I don't like all the changes either, but I just opened the contacts app and started typing a name and it showed me exactly what I expected--several of my contacts with the name I typed. iOS 26.2.

ost-ing 8mo ago

Apple software has noticeably declined from my experience, both iOS and macOS. I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also. If I buy a product and the hardware is good for 10 years (because I looked after it), I expect the software to also run just as well as when I purchased it - that is the case with Linux, why isn't it the case with macOS? Every year the software upgrades invariably degrade system performance. Outrageous.

mschuster91 8mo ago
> I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also. Apple is miles ahead of Android when it comes to phones and tablets, most in the Android ecosystem is e-waste four or five years in, while Apple stuff can still be re-sold for actual money at that time assuming you didn't bust your screen. For laptops, Apple is so far ahead it can't even be described. Most Windows laptops physically break apart before macOS ceases to support any Apple laptop. Only thing we can maybe talk about is desktop PCs ever since the switch to M that basically made meaningful upgrades impossible, but eh, in my attic there's a 2009 Mac Pro still chugging along as my homelab server + gaming rig.
- chadcmulligan 8mo ago
  I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016 for dev still works great, and its still better than every windows laptop available now. The touchpad itself is still superior - its crazy when you think about it. I know people on their 3rd or 4th windows laptop since I've been using mine. I tried a M4 recently and its battery life is fantastic, and its faster so I'll probably upgrade when this one dies, but it still works well. Edit: just did a google and it seems I can still sell it for about $600AUD, I don't know how anyone is buying a non apple lap top.
- ost-ing 8mo ago
  The hardware is very good, it can absolutely last 10 years and is miles ahead of competition - which pains me even more that the software degrades. I will eventually install linux on my M1 but I shouldn’t have to.
- 8mo ago

scarlehoff 8mo ago

I agree. This is the first time I regret updating macOs. I hoped the .1 or .2 would fix things, but I'm still seeing glitches and even random freezes. Microsoft is a disaster right now, but if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux.

type0 8mo ago
> if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux. Unfortunately Intel is cutting down their Linux involvement so I wouldn't have high hopes for it. Newer AMD laptops are probably on par with Intel on Linux now.
- 72deluxe 8mo ago
  It's a pity Lenovo isn't doing Linux support for their Snapdragon laptops. I'd switch.

mschuster91 8mo ago

> Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. Other than that weird resize thing written about here (which I didn't notice, thanks SizeUp for providing me with hotkeys remarkably similar to Windows) - why? Vista and 8 were immediately obvious changes in the UI, but in general it still looks and feels just like macOS has for well over a decade now. New icons, new fonts, but... that's it? Oh and HyperSwitch for some reason can't switch to Finder windows any more, but that's probably because HyperSwitch hasn't seen an upgrade in years...

kaashif 8mo ago

I switched from Windows 11 to macOS after a disastrous upgrade experience and drastic downgrade in performance on my Windows laptop. I mean Windows 10 wasn't great but I got used to the taskbar searching the web somehow and the dual config menus everywhere and so on. But 11 was just terrible. macOS has its pain points but man oh man what a disaster Windows is. I have had Linux on my personal desktop and laptop forever so that hasn't been an issue, only used Windows for work.

victor106 8mo ago

I agree. I have been kind of an Apple fanboy but the Tahoe thing is one of the worst products to come out of the company. I really think people should be fired for releasing this. This is akin to MobileMe - https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-email https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-...

rayiner 8mo ago

It’s such an utter piece of crap.

dont__panic 8mo ago

Unfortunately for Apple, Linux has not rotted the same way that macOS has. Will Linux win the desktop wars through attrition because it won't suffer the same enshittification as for-profit software? If it wasn't for Apple Silicon and its stellar impact on battery life, I'd be gone. iOS 26 might make it happen anyway!

bitfilped 8mo ago

I hope so, Tahoe seems particularly bad, but the downhill slide has been happening for several releases.

jader201 8mo ago

I was in the market for a new MBP (still on my 2015 MBP). After all of these articles and reports of how terrible Tahoe is, I’m holding off. I’m hoping they’ll wake up and fix this with the next release, but I’m not super optimistic. We’ll see.

acdha 8mo ago
The M4 I bought last month shipped without Tahoe and hasn’t been updated. If you can get one which isn’t already upgraded, you can leave it on the better release as long as Sequoia was ever supported on that generation.

pier25 8mo ago

Staying with Sequoia and iOS 18 for as long as I can.

ryukoposting 8mo ago

Apple's worst release in years (maybe ever), Microsoft's worst release in years (maybe ever), meanwhile mainstream Linux UX has been taking baby steps forward on a nearly-daily basis for a decade straight. I'm not saying 2026 is the year, but...

whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
Tried Linux (Omachy) recently and the mouse pointer drops frames or chokes movement under load. Just can't use an OS that does that full stop.
- _fat_santa 8mo ago
  I wouldn't call Omarchy "mainstream". Yes it's very popular among developers but that's about it and under the hood it uses some pretty non-mainstream components like Hyplrand WM. I would argue the OS closest to "mainstream Linux" is Ubuntu or Fedora with Gnome DE. Gnome has many many faults but it's probably the closest DE you're going to get to what Windows and MacOS have.
  - whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
    I'll give one of the more mainstream ones a try when I have a free afternoon, frustrating thing was it wasn't underpowered at all this was with a RTX3090 so very concerning investing in that, perhaps wrongly assumed Wayland etc would have been a similar feel to Mac Quartz Composer fluidity by now.
    - physPop 8mo ago
      it does but you need various config tweaks
- GreenWatermelon 8mo ago
  Oh God you fell for the hype and used DHH's juiced up distro. I encourage you to try a properly maintained distro e.g. Ubuntu, Fedora, or Leap instead of a racist narcissist's hobby project.

CGMthrowaway 8mo ago

>Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. Are you just saying that because it has new glassy windows and is a resource hog? What is that different about Tahoe vs Sequoia?

TuxSH 8mo ago
Not OP, but there are plenty of minor annoyances (I had the "pleasure" of upgrading my work laptop to Tahoe) : - Apple Music requires one more click to pop the multiplayer, UI is worse and the click hitbox for the progress seek bar is too small - Volume +/- now acts like a notification (top-right corner of screen and clickable). Horrible design decision (gets in the way of browser tabs) - The "A > B > C" folder thingy at the bottom of Finder windows is gone, and the tabs' styling looks unsettling - Weather (and Stocks, to a lesser degree) looks worse, lots of space wasted

weaksauce 8mo ago

though use linux is in a great state. tahoe and windows are really bad right now and i don't regret moving to linux even a little bit.

neonmagenta 8mo ago

oof. i'll be holding off after seeing all this. already have to deal with adobe's bad updates

btbuildem 8mo ago

The most annoying part about it is they won't admit the obvious colossal mistake and fix it. I've blocked Apple's update servers via /etc/hosts so this monstrous thing doesn't sneak onto my machine in the middle of the night, still happily on Sequoia.

inquirerGeneral 8mo ago

[dead]

caro_kann 8mo ago

When I saw the first liquid glass demo I decided not to upgrade both my phone and macbook for couple of years to come till they fix it.

ramijames 8mo ago

The worst part is the audiocore substack that is glitching. I waited to major subversions to upgrade and still got bit. I hate this.

dunham 8mo ago
Yeah, for me with a USB headset, the audio will go noisy about two minutes into a video / podcast. It clears up if I restart and doesn't happen when playing to the internal speakers.
- ramijames 8mo ago
  sudo killall coreaudiod in the terminal will restart the audio stack without having to restart the full computer. Super annoying.

cyri 8mo ago

same here. still running on the previous version on all devices. Gonna sit this out ...

danaris 8mo ago

Given the departure of Alan Dye and his replacement with someone (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) who comes from an actual UI design background, I am very optimistic that the next few iterations of macOS and iOS will actually start to improve the UI situation.

MarleTangible 8mo ago
I still think Alan Dye was secretly fired. When you live in a bubble and everybody around you is propping you up, you think everything is fine and dandy, but users don't care about your or anybody's feelings. Dye didn't bring something that users didn't know they needed, he brought chaos to the entire ecosystem, and he's the only Apple executive folks are willing to talk garbage about.
- danaris 8mo ago
  I mean, it feels like it would make some sense, and honestly I'd love for it to be true—but everything I've heard, from people who know Apple much better than me and/or have inside sources, is that not only was he not secretly fired, his departure blindsided the C-suite. If Cook and his other senior staff had recognized the problems Dye was causing and wanted him gone, what possible motivation would they have to make his firing secret? How could it possibly serve them better to have it look like they were chumps?

jwr 8mo ago

Tahoe actually harms their hardware sales. I would normally upgrade to the latest MacBook Pro as soon as they become available, but I know that the next M5 generation will come with Tahoe installed and I intend to keep my current machine for as long as I can…

gherkinnn 8mo ago
The M1 hurt their future hardware sales, as now, 5 years later, it remains a viable machine. The M1 MacBook Air has become a bit of a meme.
grliga 8mo ago
similar here, i bought refurb m3 mbp last nov just to get pre-tahoe

mkzet 8mo ago

I regret dearly the upgrade as well. I've turned a beautiful $3500 hardware into a close to Windows Vista machine that frustrates me daily. Just looking at it kills my productivity instantly, I just use full screen for all my apps now.

ketzu 8mo ago

> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Yes, because my apple hardware does not run properly with any other operating system. I would have switched to linux a while ago otherwise.

mcv 8mo ago
I would love linux on Apple hardware. Lots of people would, I suspect. I guess Apple has realized that their hardware is so good that they don't have to worry about the software anymore.

bluescrn 8mo ago

> Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista Not even close. It's taken a few steps in the wrong direction, but nothing compaered to the user-hostility of Win8 (attempting to move users from 'real Windows' into locked-down dumbed-down touch-centric mobile-like app store hell), let alone Win11 (creating an e-waste mountain, then pushing AI slop into everything)

gherkinnn 8mo ago

Tahoe is a bit shit, yes. But I was there for both Vista and Windows 8 and they were both utterly unusable. Vista ate every bit of RAM it could find, had severe driver issues and riddled with instabilities. It would not run on half the hardware at the time. I faintly remember a DX10 shitshow as well. And 8 hopelessly tried to apply Metro to the desktop and added a third (or was it forth?) settings panel. Also killed the Start menu.

MarleTangible 8mo ago
Just to be playful, Tahoe killed the launchpad and brought us the random size rounded corner madness.

gkanai 8mo ago

I am still on Sequoia and dont plan to move to Tahoe.

fatata123 8mo ago

[dead]

bborud 8mo ago

I don't understand why Apple change things needlessly. What other purpose does it serve? How does this positively affect the bottom line? How does it improve life for Apple's users? Breaking basic interaction with windows purely because someone feels we should waste more screen real-estate on ornamentation by having bigger radius rounded corners is, for lack of a better word, stupid. I'd like Apple to focus more on the things that actually matter to users. To fix bugs, to work on performance, to simplify things rather than complicate them. Focus on making it a better platform for doing work and less a playground for pointless fiddling with design and sloppiness.

renegade-otter 8mo ago
There has to be work done. Each sprint, new FEATURES must be completed. Features, people, FEATURES.
- dillydogg 8mo ago
  We finally have processors in our pockets that can calculate the pretty lights and colors, so make them calculate, people!
  - bborud 8mo ago
    I’d like to use that extra processing and efficiency to get longer battery life when the phone isn’t doing anything special, and to have better performing apps.
gwbas1c 8mo ago
Because if you don't make periodic cosmetic changes, people will think you're going out of business. It's why your favorite shoe company, that you buy from every 2-3 years when you wear out your favorite shoes, always has new styles and discontinues other styles. Converse is a great example.
- autoexec 8mo ago
  Generally I agree with you. My advice is that when you find a pair or shoes you like pick up at least 3 pair because by the time you need to replace them they'll be gone, but Converse isn't a great example of that because I can get a pair of Chucks which look/fit basically exactly like any pair I've ever had. It's actually kind of nice that Converse doesn't seem to play the same game as the tennis/running shoes I wear out.

codyb 8mo ago

When I read the welcome screen which includes the "hit features", all I remember was "You can change your icons!" - What? Was that the big issue of my day? (Although, after I saw what they had done to them, it certainly loomed larger in my mind) and "Notification summaries that may be incorrect" Miserable. Won't be upgrading the personal computer, am fast moving away from Apple as a whole, am telling others not to upgrade for as long as possible.

ubermonkey 8mo ago

I'm as picky as the next guy, but I'm not seeing Tahoe being THAT BAD. I was holding off, but various events led to me buying a new laptop so I got it by default. Resizing isn't great, but it's also deeply shitty in Win 11. I feel like window manager thought leadership has failed across the board, but the regression isn't that big of a deal in day to day usage, and is definitely not unique to Apple.

leokennis 8mo ago

I'm not sure if it's pure nostalgia but I long back to the "Lion era" of OS X. Apple had a HIG and third party developers used it. Different apps looked consistent: toolbar, sidebar etc. Apps had borders. If there was too much content there were big blue scrollbars. Buttons had borders. Windows had texture. You could find stuff. I could go on forever. But the OS was simultaneously better visible to the eye, and less visible to the mind. Stuff worked.

ksec 8mo ago

> iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits Or iOS 8 and 9 did revert back a lot of iOS 7 changes. I am not against changing UI, but it seems every time they are doing it they forgot all the lesson learned from previous attempt, and in such short period of time suggest they haven't learned anything.

MarleTangible 8mo ago
And that's exactly why I'm waiting for the 27 series to upgrade.

balops 8mo ago

Windows vista was a good OS. Windows 7 was vista with a new skin. People were just really dumb and didn’t realise vista needed new drivers and when 7 came out all the drivers were written so stuff worked and for some reason it made people think 7 was good and vista was bad.

ekropotin 8mo ago

I have maybe unpopular opinion, but Apple always been terrible in UX. Just to give a few examples which annoys me the most: - Finder. It just something else. After 10 years of using OSX I still can’t figure out how to use it efficiently for selecting the path - this experience is different every time, depending on the context where Finder was called from. I just don’t get. - Lack of the true tiling window manager experience. Yes, there is Yabai, but it still suck due to the fact that you can’t have truly independent spaces each with individual layout and stack of windows. - Infamous Magic Mouse’s charting port at the bottom. I just wish I could have normal Linux natively on MB Pro.

dlandis 8mo ago
Regarding the window manager and Finder; I had a better experience with the Windows equivalents way back on Windows 2k or even Windows 98 more than quarter century ago. Truly baffling.
- 72deluxe 8mo ago
  Yes, even the Windows 98 Explorer with IE integration (let's load a JPG of clouds to the left of the file detail pane) was better than modern equivalents. In Windows 10 (or was it 7?) they introduced a stupid column view in detail view that became focused with tab, so you couldn't just tab between the 3 places of directory list, file pane, address bar. They also added stupid "quick launch" areas with places nobody went, like "3D Objects", and reduced the menu area to a "grope and find a button" ribbon. The older Explorers were usable like File Manager on Windows 3.11 was: address bars that were usable from the keyboard and mouse (no subdivision buttons for parts of the path), acceptable launch speed, and no extra "features" that were unnecessary (like it ignoring "use same view for all folders" when your directory happens to have MP3s in it - it'll switch to showing rating / bitrate etc.) I believe all developers should use older versions of the software to see how usable they were in comparison to the modern "improvement".

lostlogin 8mo ago

Tahoe: The opposite of Snow Leopard.

72deluxe 8mo ago

I wonder if they'll show charts of how few people have upgraded in the same way they mocked Windows 10 adoption and Android versions a few years ago at the Keynote, to rapturous applause. I for one am staying on Sequoia as the OS looks like a children's toy on Tahoe.

michelb 8mo ago

I do hope things turn around, but having to wait until September is going to be painful.