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LG denies TV spying claims, says tracking and snooping concerns 'not true'

• mbfg 5d ago
  gamer's nexus responds to lg's response https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME
• bediger4000 7d ago
  So what? We allow people and corporations to lie under almost all circumstances, including most ads and press releases. Get them under oath, if they still deny spying, that would be a minor news item.
• al_borland 7d ago
  They say these features are opt-in and they reject dark patterns, but in my experience setting up LG TVs, everything was opt-in and I had to manually hunt through all the menus to turn this stuff off. Their statements don’t align with the reality I’ve experienced as a customer. My TV is not connected to the network, because the setup process left me with 0 trust that LG wouldn’t be collecting information regardless of my settings, or that I didn’t miss something. There was also the risk that they’d add a new “feature” with an update which would I’d be automatically opted in to. Until they start selling truly dumb TVs, I’m not going to trust anything and their statements fall flat.
  • gus_massa 6d ago
    > everything was opt-in Opt-in used to mean that it was disabled until you explicitly click somewhere to enable it.
    • al_borland 6d ago
      I probably should have said "everything was already enabled"... Opt-in/out was on the mind, and neither seemed like the right wording to convey that the choice was already made for me in the wrong direction.... I was opted in automatically.
      • gus_massa 6d ago
        Yesterday I saw a comment that say that some info collecting was "opt-in by default" and I imagined it was an evil conspiracy f corporations to dilute the name. I just looked for the comment, but it was just another case of error while writing the comment. Anyway, last year my phone died and I bought a new one made by Samsung. I had to opt out of collection like 4 or 5 times with confusing buttons, and there is a lot of crapware installed by default, and then the phone offered to install two additional apps. I almost sure I said no, but one of them got installed anyway.
      • OroPla 5d ago
        If the checkbox is already ticked it is called opt-out. You have to toggle the checkbox to not be activated. The other way around is opt-in. The checkbox is empty and if you want to enable it you have to take action. Opt-in: take action to have the feature. Opt-out: take action to not have the feature.
      • alt227 5d ago
        It was enabled when you accepted the terms and conditions when you first turned it on, or did a firmware update. LGs statment says this: > ACR is an optional feature that is turned off by default. To enable ACR, a user must accept LG’s Viewing Information Agreement, which describes how ACR works. Which I take to mean that when you agree to the terms, it enables the feature.
        • canucker2016 5d ago
          At 5:58 of the Gamers Nexus (GN) video about LG TV's spying, GN make a statement: Now, our lawyers have made the totally unrelated point uh that we cannot legally agree to contracts such as terms of service or conditions while incredibly innebriated. So they drank a lot of margaritas while video-recording the section concerning reading and accepting the Terms of Service for the TV. Take that LG legal dept. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA&t=358s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA&t=358s
  • brigade 5d ago
    For like a decade, the "opt-in" to ACR was included in the ToS agreement needed to use any smart features. Then at least some brands made the opt-in separate, but made it look like a recommendation engine or "help us improve your experience" agreement. LG adopted the "Maybe Later" dark pattern for opt-in to ACR, at least in some markets. Though I guess you never know for sure with A/B testing.
• 0utcast 7d ago
  [dead]
• seanieb 5d ago
  The only reason TV’s are getting cheaper is the business model changed. Now your viewing data (and perhaps conversations) are part of their product offering.
  • derf_ 5d ago
    I don't need the TV to be cheaper. I can afford to make up the difference for whatever few hundred dollars extra they would earn selling my data. But the expensive ones do this stuff, too.
    • fidotron 5d ago
      So what you're saying is you're more valuable to advertisers . . . which means the amount you are worth to them grows with the amount you'd spend to avoid them. Unless this stuff is made literally illegal they will keep doing it, because it's far more profitable than the alternatives. This is precisely why ideas like paying for a privacy respecting option on Facebook could never work.
    • OroPla 5d ago
      I recently solved this problem by buying the Dell U5226KW. It has the same height as a 16:9 42" TV, but is 21:9, so a lot wider. It costs about four times as much as a similar sized 16:9 TV and you can't get it any bigger.
  • klausa 5d ago
    This is just straight up false. OLED productions costs have fallen, and the yields have gotten better — displays of all kinds have gotten cheaper, not just TVs; OLEDs have started showing up in products they haven’t before for cost reasons, etc. The manufacturers make some profit on the data they harvest, sure; but the biggest BOM costs of TVs have definitely also dropped sharply.
    • jurf 5d ago
      Both can be true.
• zoobab 5d ago
  GDPR is forcing them to detail which private data they collect.
  • vincnetas 5d ago
    they detail, but no one reads that anyways
    • P24L 5d ago
      yeah, but if you want to know you can. and it isn't that everybody needs to analyze it.
    • dawnerd 5d ago
      And if anyone didn’t watch GN’s video on it, it’s thousands of pages of text requiring a button press to scroll each. It’s designed for no one to read. We should have laws that limit this kinda of “agreements”
      • cogman10 5d ago
        They should flat out be banned for consumer electronics and goods. It's insane that something you purchase can force a post purchase EULA before it can do anything. Imagine buying a shirt but there's a 10 page EULA that says you agree to arbitration as soon as you break the seal. Or a blender, or an oven, or a refrigerator. A lot of the "smart" electronics are in fact just that, they are sneaking in EULAs to use an app to connect to the device which robs you of your rights and protections as a consumer "Oh, the law says we have to give a 10 year warranty, but unfortunately you installed our app to work with your device which says you agree to forgo the warranty and pay us for the right to sue".
      • redwall_hp 5d ago
        The GDPR does. Consent to data processing must be unambiguous, accessible, informed in plain language with no legal or technical jargon, and not have any preselected boxes. https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/ https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/ The problem is the capacity to litigate is far surpassed by the world's speed and volume of doing bad. This is a case where companies' actions should be treated like parking tickets: a fine is issued summarily, with option to appeal, not a slow process of litigation having to happen before a fine is issued.
• Neywiny 5d ago
  Bold from the verge, as clicking the link to go to the official statement took me through 3 redirect trackers as picked up by my browser/extensions (I think ubo to be specific)
  • Angostura 5d ago
    It might be reasonable for a new source you don’t pay for to make money from advertising. Not so, the company that sells you a tv
  • mcmcmc 5d ago
    What are you talking about? The linked article is from Tom’s Hardware…
    • Neywiny 5d ago
      Huh. I didn't know you could change the URL. It used to point to https://www.theverge.com/tech/994333/lg-responds-to-tv-spying-allegations https://www.theverge.com/tech/994333/lg-responds-to-tv-spyin...
      • mitxela 4d ago
        You can't. The admins can.
        • Neywiny 4d ago
          It now looks directly to the press release. Wish I could delete or edit my comment because people keep downvoting me for looking like a lunatic I guess. But overall this is what I wanted. Just the primary source. Not like it was in Korean
• jarym 5d ago
  The real issue here is they’ve been dishonest and less than candid with their customers. Trust broken, words out, and their statement doesn’t really do anything to mending that.
• rpdillon 5d ago
  LG's statement: > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. This paper from 2024 investigated both Samsung and LG and found that they both capture screen images for ACR, and send the resulting hash (not the raw content) back to the manufacturer for identification. https://arxiv.org/html/2409.06203v1 https://arxiv.org/html/2409.06203v1 We're going to have to get saavy in pulling apart the distinction between "I look at everything and then send a nice summary back to my manufacturer" and "I send everything back to my manufacturer". As AI gets cheaper and more efficient, it'll be baked into everything, and will distill signal at the edge and send the good bits back to central command. I fear the legalese in the ToS will obscure this new way of "not collecting" user information.
  • ionwake 5d ago
    After doing some investigation into my Bang Olufsen after some tech not working right apparently Dev mode on it allows "Most probable raw grab: ThinQ/SSAP on the LAN after pairing — ~960×540 JPEG. Live Plus/ACR: most probably sends a fingerprint, not a retrievable raw frame." As per HN thread last week
  • cogman10 5d ago
    > So they are claiming that ACR is done entirely through audio processing, and no visual data from the screen itself is used? That...doesn't seem plausible. It's probably easier to do and every bit as accurate as just using a screenshot. And it's still exactly what I don't want them doing. There's literally zero reason for LG to be building an advertising profile on me because I was foolish enough to buy one of their TVs. This isn't something that makes their products better, it's spying. Here's how it's been done in the past https://www.cameronmacleod.com/blog/how-does-shazam-work https://www.cameronmacleod.com/blog/how-does-shazam-work Audio is a bit easier to turn into a fingerprint for identification vs video. Video has a lot of smaller subtle changes that happen from things like compression which make it a lot harder to identify. It's why youtube still hasn't figured out piracy, but they'll knock you immediately if you play 5 seconds of copyrighted music.
• seanalltogether 5d ago
  ACR is "not enabled by default"? Is this actually true or is it one of those weasley technicalities where the tv ships with it turned off, but once you connect the tv to the internet it turns on?
  • pluc 5d ago
    Could just be enabled with a simple update post-unboxing to make it compliant with that statement. Off by default but enabled as soon as it connects.
  • dietr1ch 5d ago
    I bet it's inadvertently enabled if you want to watch Netflix within 5 minutes of powering on the TV and rush through its setup
  • functionmouse 5d ago
    it turns on when you agree to the 197 page arbitration agreement source: i made it up
  • buzer 5d ago
    https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA?t=1370 https://youtu.be/6IFVTcM28KA?t=1370 They at least use a pattern where you need to accept terms of use & privacy policy when you download an app. Same screen has option to accept other agreements like ACR. However by default "select all" option is highlighted so people will often click that. Slightly earlier on video they state that certain ad related things got turned on automatically during software updates.
  • ZoneZealot 5d ago
    Technically when you turn the TV on for the first time, ACR is not enabled. Ergo, not enabled by default. Sure, to use the TV you need to go past the EULA screen. And the button right in front of you, pre-selected - is agree to all terms. And after pressing OK, you now have ACR turned on. But you did that, it wasn't on by default. Okay I can take my soul sucking corporate hat off now.
    • 5d ago
• aeternum 5d ago
  Note that their statement could also be true if they record 99% of the time. We need to start calling companies out for meaningless weasel statements like "We don't record continuously". The majority of the problem is also simply the ability to record. Putting a remote control listening hardware on a device that runs a plethora of 3rd party apps and with full connection to the internet means that even if LG isn't controlling that mic, someone else will be.
  • seemaze 5d ago
    As someone who hasn’t owned a television in decades, why would a TV even need a microphone in the first place? How many other household devices have a microphone whose primary function is orthogonal to recording audio?
    • shrubble 5d ago
      Every speaker can be used as a microphone if the circuitry is added to do so.
      • Bud 5d ago
        Even the screen itself can be used as a microphone, and a pretty good one, too.
      • mesrik 5d ago
        Many common SOC's MediaTek, Realtek, and Broadcom SOC's quite often used modern audio capable devices analog pins can be software defined either input or output. IIRC I saw already Bruce Schneider's blog some team proof of concept where they listened using laptop speakers what was spoken in that room. Audio quality wasn't perfect, but it making sense what was spoken was good enough.
        • hilbert42 5d ago
          "…I saw already Bruce Schneider's blog some team proof of concept where they listened using laptop speakers what was spoken in that room." Users need to know the electrical features of their H/W and its limits. If a loudspeaker output stage is designed (hardware wired) so that it can never act as an input then no later firmware update can turn the speaker into a microphone. This is why hardware authentication is becoming more and more important. limits
• illusive4080 5d ago
  Easy solution. Do not connect your TV to the internet.
  • lokar 5d ago
    I’ve had TVs that had important firmware updates that improved hdmi/atmos/etc compatibility
    • vasac 5d ago
      I have a 10-year-old LG TV that runs webOS 3. The first update slowed it down - not that it was particularly fast to begin with - and every subsequent update made it even slower. It also constantly nags you to update the firmware. You can’t just refuse once; every time you turn on the TV, it asks you again. I won’t make the same mistake the next time I go shopping for a TV. Forgot to mention - there were no improvements whatsoever in terms of functionality.
      • lokar 5d ago
        Yeah, I find the LGs to be really annoying. The Sony seems to be much better.
    • nickthegreek 4d ago
      most can be installed via usb stick.
  • bubblemoth 5d ago
    I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the television would search for unsecured wi-fi or other ways of connecting to the internet without user input.
    • newsoftheday 5d ago
      I agree, it would be easy for a security research to discover if a TV tried to do that and would result in an even greater stuffstorm than LG is dealing with now or that Samsung dealt with in the past.
• HelloUsername 5d ago
  Change url to source? https://www.lg.com/global/newsroom/news/statements/statement-understanding-privacy-on-lg-smart-tvs/ https://www.lg.com/global/newsroom/news/statements/statement... Also they provided a statement earlier to Gizmodo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49628328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49628328
• deleted 5d ago
  [deleted]
• Jcampuzano2 5d ago
  > Audio used for wake-word detection is processed locally on the TV and, if no wake word is detected, audio is not converted to text, stored, or transmitted. Voice-recognition results and related technical logs may be generated as part of processing a voice command. These records are associated with specific voice interactions and do not indicate continuous recording of conversations occurring outside an active voice recognition session. From their statement. This entire thing is contradictory. You cannot both say "not converted to text, stored, or transmitted", while at the same time saying the results may be generated and stored in the form of logs. We need to hold companies responsible for this shit.
• mordae 5d ago
  Remember that one time when music CDs from Sony MBG installed a rootkit on your PC that continuously sent whatever MP3s you had on your PC back to them?
  • SaucyWrong 5d ago
    I was alive for that but had forgotten about it…wild.
  • deleted 5d ago
    [deleted]
  • oceansky 5d ago
    First time hearing of this
    • Klathmon 5d ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk... As the saying goes, this is what radicalized me. If any one of us did anything close to this we would be treated like Aaron Swartz and given a 35+ year prison sentence. But in the Sony case the DOJ didn't even threaten criminal charges.
      • mitxela 4d ago
        Aaron Swartz's sentence was death FYI.
  • stephbook 5d ago
    Remember when Amazon deleted books from customers' Kindles (eBook reader), and the book they decided to remotely burn was .. 1984 from Orwell.
  • stackghost 5d ago
    Yep and they were fined a paltry 6 million dollars or so. For actively distributing and infecting users with malware. This on annual sales exceeding $3B. That case sure put Mark Russinovich on everyone’s radars, at least. Good times.
• androiddrew 5d ago
  How can we lock down a TV, still use it but trust we aren't being spied on?
  • gnomesteel 5d ago
    Don’t give your TV internet access, and use an Apple TV.
    • herpdyderp 5d ago
      I've gotten frustrated enough with my Apple TV that once my gen of hardware is no longer supported I'll replace it with a Raspberry Pi. I don't need fancy apps, just a browser for Jellyfin and (sometimes) YouTube. Any other incidental streaming service usage can also be done through a browser anyway.
      • dwedge 5d ago
        I tried doing this and the video stutter on a raspberry pi made it too annoying. Probably better off using an N100
        • herpdyderp 5d ago
          That's too bad! Which Pi version and RAM configuration did you try?
        • Rohansi 5d ago
          > Probably better off using an N100 Exactly this. Search for a mini PC and it'll have a cheap Intel SoC in it that performs way better than a Raspberry Pi 5 but cheaper (comes with everything for ~$300), and even consumes a similar amount of power.
      • aryadee 5d ago
        A heads up: my CachyOS gaming PC has been doubling as my media box. But sadly, I've noticed that modern streaming DRM limits the quality because the OS+hardware is not "trusted". There's probably a way to hack around it, but I haven't gotten into it
• initramfs 5d ago
  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-KgX9xyIRK8 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-KgX9xyIRK8 "Can the CIA really spy on your phone?" He mentions TV and while it's off.
  • initramfs 5d ago
    by the way, Intel's Quark chip is installed at least 3 times on each chipset and can run on a Minix OS when plugged in to the power and off: from: https://web.archive.org/web/20201201175708/http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html?m=1 https://web.archive.org/web/20201201175708/http://blog.ptsec... Highly efficient" is 25mW at 33MHz. According to the Wikipedia page, it can run even when the PC is off but plugged in or connected to battery. an ARM Cortex M0-4 will use even less power in idle. All it needs is a tiny capacitor and bootrom and a secret flash storage to record audio and upload it once internet becomes available "The Intel Management Engine always runs as long as the motherboard is receiving power, even when the computer is turned off. This issue can be mitigated with the deployment of a hardware device which is able to disconnect all connections to mains power as well as all internal forms of energy storage. The Electronic Frontier Foundation and some security researchers have voiced concern that the Management Engine is a backdoor. Intel's main competitor, AMD, has incorporated the equivalent AMD Secure Technology (formally called Platform Security Processor) in virtually all of its post-2013 CPUs." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine There are countless low or passive power audio devices since the Thing that can record and upload/bounce audio to receiveing devices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
    • roscas 5d ago
      People worried about LG. Use Android, iOS and Windows. Use Facebook and TikTok! Use WhatApp and get shocked TikTok keeps all data, video, images, text and reads it. Same as WhatsApp. Drive a Tesla. Have that Ring on the door and other devices. Go figure. People are strange. And yes, that ME and PSP are on every cpu since I can't remember, Thinkpad T60 was probably one of the last ones without spy tech.
• runjake 5d ago
  > "LG also said that its features like “Automatic Content Recognition (ACR), voice recognition, and interest-based advertising are optional,” and “not enabled by default.” I am absolutely certain that ACR was enabled on our new TV by default, back some years ago. I am nearly certain their voice recognition, and advertising spying were enabled on our TV by default. If none of this is truly "enabled by default" then this is a recent development. I discovered this many years ago and did some deep dives, and unfortunately didn't publish anything about it. Lesson learned.
  • jimt1234 5d ago
    A few months ago, my Roku TV started displaying these weird popups, saying something like, "Looks like you're watching college basketball. Did you know Roku-TV also has college basketball?" - something like that. Well, for the Roku device, yes, there was a setting I could disable, but (1) Roku pushed this 'feature' and made it default without my knowledge/consent, and (2) the config setting says the popups will stop, but it doesn't mention the data collection; my assumption is they're still collecting that data for their own data analytics purposes.
    • cogman10 5d ago
      Pretty much the exact reason I stopped using Roku. I bought a streaming device to stream, but apparently roku decided selling devices wasn't lucrative enough so they started selling ads instead. I really wish there was a better way to do a media center linux.
    • antoniojtorres 5d ago
      Same experience here. Roku has been doing opt-in ACR for a while now. Pulled the ethernet cable out that same day.
  • judge2020 5d ago
    It is not enabled by default, but conveniently it's toggled on if you accept the ACR terms of service - including if you select "agree to all" - during TV setup and/or when downloading or updating any apps.
• pastor_williams 5d ago
  If you live in the United States you should find out who your state senator and representative are and write a letter to them asking them to propose, and support legislation prohibiting spying and increasing consumer privacy protection. Kentucky passed HB 692 unanimously requiring smart TVs to ask permission if they are going to be spying on us. Ask your state legislature to follow their lead and pass some very popular consumer privacy protection.
• tedggh 5d ago
  [flagged]
• Koshcheiushko 5d ago
  I've one question: I've used android phone (realme, which is chinese). And i remember that whenever we used to discuss somethings among our friends, i started used to get ads realated to that on my laptop, phone within atmost a hour. So, was realme transcribing all conversations and uploading it? Can someone answer?
  • dpkirchner 5d ago
    I don't know, but I suspect the battery drain would be substantial. I wonder if there is a different explanation: maybe one of your friends searched for information on the topic while you were on the same hotspot/in the same location and that (along with existing relationship graphs?) allowed them to target you? That's how I'd do it, I think.
  • VPenkov 5d ago
    Wired wrote an article in 2017 [1] on whether it's possible/probable to do that. Technology has evolved a lot since then, so it's a lot more feasible, but the article describes how far metadata alone can go. For example, let's say an ad network knows your and your friends' location, and knows you've met because you've been close together frequently, or are using the same wifi network. You talk about perfumes, then later one of them looks up perfumes on their phone. Google would usually have access to this much metadata, and will likely serve you perfume ads because of your friend who later looked it up. This doesn't directly answer your question though. The answer would be - it's possible, but a lot is possible without that. [1] https://archive.is/OyuUO https://archive.is/OyuUO
  • ethagnawl 5d ago
    People always dismiss this as FUD but it's been happening to me more than ever. I know in many cases it is more likely that firms are acquiring purchase histories and location data but that doesn't explain other incidents. For example, last week I was complaining to my spouse about shoulder pain and how I was afraid I may need another surgery. YouTube has suddenly starting flooding my feed with videos about "shoulder exercises to avoid surgery." I hadn't searched any of those terms, purchased anything or visited an orthopedic, so I don't know what else could possibly explain it.
• tracerbulletx 5d ago
  The leaked advertising pitch videos from them where they say "we own the glass" as a pitch to potential advertising partners, about a tv they sold me just viscerally pissed me off so I'm kind of just done with them even if thats an irrationally strong response. The whole attitude just makes me so mad.
• TeaVMFan 5d ago
  [flagged]
• j45 5d ago
  Leaving TVs disconnected from the internet is the only way to ignore this. Connect your own devices and smarts to it. A broader issue is that it does any kind of recording, or processing of the signals around the tv (from a microphone) or what is displayed on the tv (image) is both extremely private. Privacy has been violated by LG according to their own wording. a way that is not controlled by settings. What might LG want with an anonymized hash of the audio being played or shown on someone's screen? Existing ad matching technology can link it with the video of what you're watching to build a shadow profile of you and then sell the attention of your eyeballs to advertising. From there, simply what you watch, at what time, for how long roughly sets up a wonderful demographic of age, gender, interests, and all that fun stuff. This is an area of tv and video advertisign that has existed for a long time including online and cable tv boxes. LG's statement that it doesn't move your info anywhere about what is being watched via audio seems to be a variant of this. Using the audio fingerprint, their software could request an ad for it from another system and direction. So your information may not leave the TV indirectly, but thsi type of a mechanism does exist in cable tv boxes, etc. With TVs absorbing the OTT (set top box) functions they are absorbing this too so their claims of how big their market is probably tied to being able to sell advertising into that ecosystem. It’s likely an unadvertised function only for the benefit and leverage of LG and may be buried in signing your life away to use their “smart” tv functions as well. A tiny crack in LG tvs can be an attack vector for security and safety. Whether it's audio, or video, or anything. The best TV is a dumb tv, with all internet disabled and plug in your own smarts that you can hopefully manage better. A brand is a promise of an experience. This brand has broken a promise and it can’t be pretending it didn’t.
• mohamedkoubaa 5d ago
  We need a push notification: "Living room TV wants to use its microphone" and for it to be locked out if you don't allow it.
• dang 5d ago
  Recent and related: LG TVs caught spying even when offline or on standby - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49612329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49612329 - Sept 2026 (359 comments) GamersNexus and LG: Or why rooting your TV is a bad idea - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605424 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605424 - Sept 2026 (133 comments) A Screensaver for LG's Spying Smart TVs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49605356 - Sept 2026 (13 comments) LG TVs aren't the only ones spying on you [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49575176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49575176 - Sept 2026 (18 comments)
  • MaxBarraclough 5d ago
    From Nov 2013, but still related: LG Smart TVs logging USB filenames and viewing info to LG servers https://doctorbeet.blogspot.com/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging-usb-filenames-and.html https://doctorbeet.blogspot.com/2013/11/lg-smart-tvs-logging... HackerNews discussion (178 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6759426
  • nubinetwork 5d ago
    And Steve says LG is full of shit. Thanks Steve. https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME
  • coin 5d ago
    Why would anyone connect their TV to the Internet? It’s been known for years that it spies, although maybe not to this extent. Or are these TVs auto connecting open WiFi or the neighbor’s Xfinity WiFi?
    • Kiro 5d ago
      It's convenient and people 1. don't think it spies and 2. wouldn't care if it did.
    • phil21 5d ago
      So they can use Netflix or HBO apps and whanot. The vast majority of consumers are not going to spend another $100-300 on a media player device like an Apple TV, Roku, or nVidia shield. They will use the built in app functionality. And even those who don't - a very surprising to me number people use the "free channels" most TVs ship with. It's like the streaming version of broadcast OTA I guess for a certain consumer segment.
• Simulacra 5d ago
  So very strange every time I visit Tomshardware.com, I get a pop-up on my iPhone that asked me "Do you want to download "sync-pixel" on "usync.ingage.tech"? What is that? And why does it only happen on that website?
• lousken 5d ago
  Maybe they should have shorter and clearer terms? Maybe it should be easy to just opt out?
• Joel_Mckay 5d ago
  Creepy spyware vendor insists they aren't doing what they were caught doing. They made customers feel like suckers for trusting the Brand. Their LG logo was literally on the signed evidence. What a bunch of clowns getting exposed by community reporters. Thanks Steve. =3
• firefoxd 5d ago
  "We own the glass" that's what really stood out to me. I can still disconnect my TV from wifi. But what scares me is when every device comes with their own esim and cellular radio.
  • IshKebab 5d ago
    They don't need that - look up Amazon Sidewalk.
    • switchbak 5d ago
      Sonofa, it’s like those corporations are the KGB or something. It’s getting really hard to keep up on all their shady shit.
  • yndoendo 5d ago
    When you buy a BIC pen, you own all content created with that pen, not BIC. This needs to be applied to all other tools; computers, TVs, AI agents, ... With out the user the content would have never been created. Users are the content creates and now the push to remove their owners ship of their actions and move it to the wealthy. Greed begets more greed.
    • hapticmonkey 5d ago
      Introducing the new BIC Ai SmartPen. Every word you write gets sent back to the BIC data center. Give one to every kid in school!
  • RiverCrochet 5d ago
    You shouldn't be really scared until all devices follow the pattern of the iPhone (and maybe new flagship Android phones too, I'm not in that camp). New iPhones are expensive, more than $1000. Yet most people who get them finance it through their cellular carrier, usually 2 year plans, so it's just $30-$50 tacked on to the monthly cellphone bill. So ... no one cares unless it's going to double their bill. Let's say the RAMopocalypse and other AI-driven chip pressues drives everything up even more; let's say now-cheap TVs are now $2000 or $3000. No biggie. Your cellphone company can offer you an eSIM-locked TV with bundled network and services, on a 5 year plan with free lifetime service and replacement, adding just $30-$40 to your bill for 5 years. Maybe it will include something like Family Tracker Life360 Intercom as a value-add - talk to your children to/from the TV to/from any phone on your plan, anywhere, anytime. Safety, etc. Same thing with your laptop, home IoT/security devices, etc. If ATSC 3.0 dies and gives way to 5g Broadcast, it'll be another enabler for something like this. That's when the real lock-in will happen.
• xyst 5d ago
  lg trying to spin this so hard the earth rotation may stop
• bryan0 5d ago
  > "LG TVs process voice data only when the voice button on the remote control is pressed and held, or when a wake word such as 'Hi LG' is recognized after the user has activated the Far-Field voice recognition feature." > LG went on to say that beyond the aforementioned instances, "the TVs do not collect or record ambient conversations." LG is contradicting themselves here. In order to detect a wake word then they must be collecting or recording ambient conversations. I think the main questions are: 1. Is it fully supported to use LG TVs disconnected from the internet. 2. Are wake word voice controls and ACR truly opt-in. They claim it is in the statement but (as others have mentioned) I remain skeptical what definition of “opt-in” they are using. Update: some of this is becoming a semantic discussion on the definitions of “recording” and “collecting”, but to circumvent this I would say: If a device can detect words in my ambient conversations and depending on what it detects (accurate or not) it can send that audio to the cloud, I would describe that device as “collecting or recording ambient conversations”
  • gruez 5d ago
    >LG is contradicting themselves here. In order to detect a wake word then they must be collecting or recording ambient conversations. No, it's arguably accurate because "record" implies it's being persisted. Otherwise something as simple as a sound meter (which needs a microphone to operate) is "recording".
    • TZubiri 5d ago
      The word used by LG was processed, not record
  • crmd 5d ago
    Seems like these weasels are using the James Clapper definition of the words “collecting” and “recording”.
  • Terr_ 5d ago
    > In order to detect a wake word then they must be collecting or recording ambient conversations. There's a risk here that we will talk-past one another while using different meanings of the same words, so let me offer a scenario: AcmeTV has an isolated component which taps microphone input, records to a 5-second ring buffer, and on "Wakey-Wakey" triggers an alert flag. Assume it works perfectly accurately. Would you accuse AcmeTV of "recording or collecting ambient conversations" on the basis of that component constantly reading microphone data? Personally I wouldn't, because it's not the same kind of "recording" we consumers are concerned about.
• zug_zug 5d ago
  We need to start using AI to hack our own devices and make our own TV os, sort of like was done for routers. Probably relatively doable these days.
  • traverseda 5d ago
    That is one thing AI companies try to do, make it impossible to do any kind of piracy or reverse engineering through their "safety alignments". And it's pretty reliable.
• zosoworld 5d ago
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• kwarcode 5d ago
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• jasonkhanlar 5d ago
  "LG Says We're Fake News" - Gamers Nexus https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME
  • deleted 5d ago
    [deleted]
  • taylorfinley 5d ago
    Wow. I hope Gamers Nexus sues for defamation.
• heaney-555 5d ago
  I simply don't connect any TV to the internet. Instead, I connect a Google TV Streamer, as I'm in the Google ecosystem. For my friends in the Apple ecosystem, I tell them to do the same with an Apple TV box.
  • dinkleberg 5d ago
    This is the way. My TV tries its hardest to get me to connect and whenever I turn it on, it doesn’t fail to remind me that I’ve disabled the microphone and that I should turn it back on. But as soon as the Apple TV takes over all is good.
• deleted 5d ago
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• tombardier 5d ago
  I for one completely believe them. That's why I rooted my C5, disabled all telemetry, and disabled Internet access entirely by default from an isolated vlan on my network that has no access to anything on any other network. I'm tempted to remove the WiFi/BT board if it's an add-on card, and probably unplug the microphones as well. I only need it as a display for my PC and 4K disc player.
  • juiceland 5d ago
    Any guide to doing this?
• surcap526 5d ago
  [dead]
• TZubiri 5d ago
  Sounds like these TVs will not get much sales in the US and they will be put on sale at a discount in countries with a lower gdp per capita. I.e: these will probably trickle down to me
• Havoc 5d ago
  That's a bold play given how "caught red handed" the gamersnexus video was.
• JohnMakin 5d ago
  Wolf claims they are utterly interested in eating sheep, news at 11
• someonehere 5d ago
  The ACR stuff was turned on by default for mine. They are straight up lying.
• adar2378 5d ago
  damn LG doing what now!
• yieldcrv 5d ago
  yeah but what about third party analytics packages that may be abusing enterprising or privileged credentials I think this is all disingenuous and will stay that way until the public asks the right questions to the right people the CEO of the obvious organization can go in front of Congress and truthfully say “Senator, we are not listening, targeting is based on browsing patterns and data brokers” while the targeted ads and timelines remain based on all those other inputs, and also audio
• drnick1 5d ago
  If you have one of those TVs, disassemble it and unplug or remove the microphone, camera and the wireless adapter. Use it as a (rather nice) 4K monitor for a Linux box with Plasma in Bigscreen mode. Pair that with an airmouse remote and you get the most private and user-centric streaming/gaming platform that you can build. Put a decent GPU in the box, add an Xbox controller and Steam and you also built the world's best console.
  • nullc 5d ago
    Has someone qualified that removing the wireless hardware leaves the device functional? This would be a nice public service for gamers nexus that happened to buy a lot of these devices. :P I can say from experience in several devices (but not an LG TV) that removing dedicated bluetooth chipsets so far has left devices functional. ... but some things implement their bluetooth as part of the ESP32 that is the whole kit and kaboodle, so you can't remove it. As to why someone would remove these components -- in addition to the explicit spying LG is doing, there are companies dragnet collecting BTLE device identifiers <> gps collecting, including collecting them via phone apps. This means that if you have any BTLE devices that are frequently with you or otherwise connected to your identity it may be possible for a threat actor to determine your location(s) from largely unregulated commercial databases. I don't use BTLE at all, so this 'functionality' is a pure risk to me.
• txheilmann 5d ago
  [flagged]
• dabeeeenster 5d ago
  "Nearby sounds or speech occurring at the same time as a user's command may sometimes appear in speech-recognition results." "Do not continuously record or transmit" Soooo....
• beloch 5d ago
  LG’s Approach to Privacy Our approach is guided by four principles: Transparency – Helping users understand how smart TV features work and how related data may be used. User Choice – Giving users meaningful control over optional features and services. Informed Consent – Supporting informed decisions through clear and manageable consent choices. Continuous Improvement – Continuously improving privacy controls, transparency, and security protections. -------------------- Transparency: This document isn't terribly easy to understand by the standards of traditional TV's. You have to pay close attention to figure out what is and isn't going on, and when. It also should have been taped to the front of every LG TV when it comes out of the box. User Choice: There is extensive explanation of how what LG TV's are doing isn't nefarious, but the fact remains that there's no switch to turn it off. Why not just put a simple hardware on/off switch on these TV"s to turn off all connectivity? Maybe some users want dumb TV's, or maybe they just don't want to worry about all of this. Informed Consent: Buyers apparently consented to this at the store. Now you're finally informing them. That's now how informed consent works. Continuous Improvement: I'll believe LG and other Smart TV manufacturers are serious about this when they add a hardware wifi on/off switch, and not a moment before.
• Daklone 5d ago
  It should be noted that Gamers Nexus discovered LG TVs reach out and build a map of every device in the area. They noted the discovery traffic with Wireshark, and commented on LG boasting about how many connected devices their networks can see. This remains to be a larger issue than the clear fact LG TVs can easily be used as remote spy devices, even when offline, by wirelessly remote connected agents.
• Terr_ 5d ago
  A quixotic legal dream: All consumer data-surveillance must take the form of an opt-in monthly payment plan, which either side can cancel. So the TV gets advertised as "$$$, but basically $$ if you sign up to be surveilled and get a $/month check back." If the company sets $/month too low--or is too creepy about what they collect--people just won't opt-in. But what happens if they promise big pay-backs but routinely cancel from their side? That's a problem, but at least it's a kind the market [0] can handle when it comes to reputation and bad reviews. [0] "Markets are good, use them." -- "OK, fine, you must price this on a market." -- "NOT LIKE THAT!"
  • N_Lens 5d ago
    More like "a capitalism fever dream"
    • Terr_ 5d ago
      You can tell it isn't, because the people with all the capital have a reduced set of choices for screwing you over.
  • xaksnTMu2 5d ago
    > $$$, but basically $$ if you sign up to be surveilled and get a $/month check back. Well, such thing has kinda appeared for mobile phone contracts. You can save and entire buck, if you agree for your data to be used for marketing purposes. Except, after accepting the deal, you still pay exactly the same monthly amount, as before they introduced that option.
• deleted 5d ago
  [deleted]
• DenisM 5d ago
  For practical fixes, consider replacing the TV with a “commercial monitor” and connecting an Apple TV device instead (or an open source thingy). Disconnecting “smart tv” from internet to use Apple TV is possible and might work, but you will get nagged to reconnect all the time. And TV mfr will eventually try to find workarounds - purchase access to wireless connections from large-footprint connectivity providers (Xfinity WIFI, 4g/5g networks, etc) or create a p2p network among their own connected devices. I doubt they do it right now as it’s less profitable to focus on niche audience, but eventually it might become profitable enough.
• zephyreon 5d ago
  > Features such as Automatic Content Recognition (ACR), voice recognition, and interest-based advertising are optional. These features are not enabled by default. Users can choose to enable these features and can manage or withdraw consent through TV settings. They may be optional features but I’m pretty sure when I set up my tv and got to the screen where you are required to agree to the various terms and privacy legalese the “happy path” was to hit the “accept all” button vs use the remote to navigate into each one, read, and only activate the few required to use the tv. I would not call this dark pattern “optional” by default.
  • gfody 5d ago
    even if you reject, later on some app from their store won't work until you accept
  • pcardoso 5d ago
    Even some updates will trigger the acceptance screen from time to time, with a second scare confirmation shown when I reject. If my wife or kids were shown that screen when I’m not around they would accept it.
    • silisili 5d ago
      Nearly every notification (new privacy statement, new update, etc) defaults you to clicking accept all, even showing you that you hadn't previously checked them. You have to be vigilant with LG TVs, sadly.
      • dijit 4d ago
        We're singling out LG, but it's also true of Samsung and others. Maybe Sony is better, based on my memory, but I doubt it now without evidence.
  • FabCH 5d ago
    Gamers Nexus paid a lawyer to read the contract and had one of their staff members try to read the entire thing on the TV. The lawyers conclusion is that a non-lawyer basically has no chance of correctly interpreting the contract and the TV auto-standby almost made it physically impossible for the staff member to even read it. The „happy path“ is the only path, for all practical purposes.
• jodydonetti 5d ago
  Obligatory reference https://youtu.be/krj5NM-6tfU https://youtu.be/krj5NM-6tfU
• Oh-Kay_Labs 5d ago
  easy to prove. Open source your stuff LG.
• algoth1 5d ago
  What was the alternative? "LG admits to spying claims, execs align to be arrested asap"
• nottorp 5d ago
  They can be trusted as much as Sony and game ownership i suppose. I still have an 1080p TV because I can't be arsed to do the research on what 4k TV won't spy on me. It helps that most "content" isn't worth 4k anyway.
• rr808 5d ago
  Everyone complains but realistically TVs are so incredibly cheap now, I can't believe anyone would make money from hardware alone. I mean a Samsung 55in 4k tv for $300 delivered for free is crazy, let alone the $179 insignia one.
  • albumen 5d ago
    Yes. The Gamers Nexus video points out that in some cases LG makes more money from selling your behaviour to ad partners, than on the hardware itself.
    • Ylpertnodi 5d ago
      I'd rather pay full price.
• WesolyKubeczek 5d ago
  Imagine here the goose and a jacket guy meme, where the goose says "Why then you have so many microphones in it? Why so many microphones!?"
• calmworm 5d ago
  And Michael Scott declares bankruptcy. Newsworthy?
• claaams 5d ago
  What about the part where it's the consumers obligation to notify guests or people passing by that LG is recording and saving their voices for fuck knows what all. They didn't mention that at all. They also specify "for advertising purposes" in the response. It's pretty selective in that wording because it implies that it may be used for other purposes.
• jiggawatts 5d ago
  None of the complaining here has the slightest chance of changing anything. The only way these companies get put in their place is if their products are used to exfiltrate the video or audio of a powerful politician doing something compromising. Here in Australia cops liked to hide behind bushes at the bottom of a hill with a speed camera / radar as a revenue collection exercise. They kept fining politicians speeding between Sydney and Canberra, and used photos as evidence showing said politicians with women other than their wives in the passenger seats. So the rules were changed so every speed camera needs at least three warning signs before you reach it. Yeah, it’s naked self interest but it’s the only way things get done in the world. Someone, perhaps a white hat hacker, needs to start hacking into LG TVs and publishing senators’ wives screaming the name of “the help” in ecstasy while the man of the house is in DC. Or post audio of senators accepting bribes. Whatever, use your imagination! Suddenly, almost miraculously, privacy will matter, LG executives will be dragged over hot coals, some might even go to federal prison over wire tapping or espionage charges. Same as Huawei. But my mark words, until a Senator feels burning hot shame over something exfiltrated from their TV, exactly zero changes will happen to consumer protection laws. LG will do damage control for a few days. By next week you will all forget this. Nothing will change.
• GrinningFool 5d ago
  Well. I sure am relieved.
• matheusmoreira 5d ago
  Of course they claim that, but they are not to be trusted. The capability is there, therefore it will be abused.
• metanonsense 5d ago
  We're listening. We hear you. We're hear for you.
• gerdesj 5d ago
  LG TVs boot Linux and have plenty of capabilities. Why would they not ... take a look around at the environment ... to best enhance ... your errr experience. LG are amongst equals here. I've seen devices (TVs/cameras) do ping sweeps and then port scans. I have two VLANs at home: THINGS for IoT and SEWER for things that look really dodgy. I drive a (Seic) MG4 EV. I use the Home Assistant integration for that and put up with the rest. To be fair I live in the UK and we are quite efficiently ... observed.
  • squeegmeister 5d ago
    Any chance someone one day will make a spyware-free OS I can run on my LG TV? It was pretty expensive and hardware wise is quite nice. Would love to be able to keep using it
• shevy-java 5d ago
  So logically, one side must be lying. Somehow LG's outlet here doesn't convince me.
• stego-tech 5d ago
  What astounds me most of all from all this research is how much ownership LG (and through similar legal means, most manufacturers out there) asserts over the device you might have just paid thousands of dollars for - including the physical goods inside. This isn't merely an issue of corporate overreach and mass surveillance, it's a complete and utter failure of policy to adapt to shifting markets or preserve consumer agency. Maybe an answer is a stripped-down Linux distro for smart TV chipsets that let users clearly disable said features entirely? Since I doubt anyone is going to willingly "go back" to dumb displays when so much data and ad revenue is on the line.
• fhub 5d ago
  “LG TVs process voice data only when the voice button on the remote control is pressed and held, or when a wake word such as 'Hi LG' is recognized after the user has activated the Far-Field voice recognition feature." The definition of “process” is really important and is missing. LG could process all transcripts on their servers too and stay within a very wonky definition of “process” on the TV that excludes transcription and transmission.
• infogulch 5d ago
  That's not a denial, that's confirmation that they are spying on you.
• thakoppno 5d ago
  The World Cup is broadcast in many different languages with the same video feed. That’s likely one of the main reasons audio fingerprinting is better than video. You also get better idea of the target demographics language preferences and that leads to more relevant advertisements.
• encrypted_bird 5d ago
  >LG denies TV spying claims Yeah, they fucking *would*.
• BLKNSLVR 5d ago
  LG can't deny the clips of their sociopathic executives saying things like "we own there glass" and "within an LG TV household we can help extend the ad campaign footprint to the other devices in the household" It doesn't matter whether they deny specific methods when their execs are quoted giving specific outcomes that require literal spying. Fuck off LG, and the rest of you doing the same shit.
• Brosper 5d ago
  I remember days when Tom's Hardware was doing real hardware reviews. Today it's just another copycat tech page. It should be Tom's Hardware thing to releal this type of a scam.
• giancarlostoro 5d ago
  Gamers Nexus responded to LGs claims here: https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME
• Danox 5d ago
  If it’s not true, why put the capability in there in the first place?
• what-the-grump 5d ago
  Rooted all the TVs in the house and now I own the glass and the firmware and the DRM jail. Thanks LG for making everyone burn tokens on plugging your stupid software. But hey now we really own the device and what it does and how it does it.
• rkagerer 5d ago
  Does anyone make a TV these days that's just a TV?
• latentsea 5d ago
  Last time a company said something wasn't true, it actually wasn't true, so LG must also be telling the truth. No incentive to lie. Corporations usually don't do that. They're run by honest, empathetic people.
• AudreyWilson289 5d ago
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• janalsncm 5d ago
  How hard is it to flash the ROM of these TVs with something that doesn’t spy on people? Feels like in the age of Claude Code the answer should be to strip out the evil side of the Faustian bargain of adtech-subsidized smart devices. Hackers should not spend mental energy pulling apart the language of Satan’s PR department. That energy is better spent exorcizing the demons out of their devices.
• Veserv 5d ago
  Since lawyers just love engaging in language lawyering when things get to court and always use to most uncharitable interpretation of words, we have no choice but to interpret their words in the most uncharitable and technically correct fashion. In that context, let us examine their lawyer-drafted statement. > LG smart TVs do not continuously record or transmit users’ conversations. "or" is ambiguous in the English language. A lawyer can rightly argue that they mean exclusive or and thus they are being technically truthful as long as they both continuously record and transmit users' conversations. They can resolve this ambiguity by stating each element as a independent sentence. "continuously" means without end. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as the recording can end in a single instance, then they are being technically truthful. > Speech-to-text processing begins only if a user activates a voice interaction through a supported wake-word feature or by pressing the voice (or AI) button on the remote control. "processing begins" makes no indication as to when it ends. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as you use a wake-word a single time or press the voice button on the remote control a single time, they can begin processing and never stop. They can resolve this ambiguity by stating that they only process audio during a session and that session has a strict maximum duration. Also, it makes no statement as to audio processing, only speech-to-text processing. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as they do not convert the speech to text and just directly transmit the audio they are being truthful. They can resolve this ambiguity by removing the narrowly defined "speech-to-text" and changing it to "audio". Weird their lawyers made this so specific. > Audio used for wake-word detection is processed locally on the TV and, if no wake word is detected, audio is not converted to text, stored, or transmitted. Narrowly defined to be only "Audio used for wake-word detection". A lawyer can rightly argue that if they make a second copy of the audio that does not go to wake-word detection, then they can convert it to text, store, and transmit it. They can resolve this ambiguity by removing the narrowly defined "Audio used for wake-word detection" to just state that they do not convert to text, store, or transmit any audio outside of a session. Weird their lawyers made this so specific. > Voice-recognition results and related technical logs may be generated as part of processing a voice command. These records are associated with specific voice interactions and do not indicate continuous recording of conversations occurring outside an active voice recognition session. "These records ... do not indicate continuous recording" is not a denial that they are continuously recording. It merely states that it does not indicate continuous recording. A lawyer can rightly argue that as long as they have at least one record that is not associated with a continuous recording, then they are being truthful. No need to remove ambiguity here as it would be covered by the above fixes. > Speech-recognition results may be used to support voice-related features but are not uploaded later when the TV is offline or when connectivity is restored. "but are not uploaded later when the TV is offline or when connectivity is restored". Again, "or". Only mentions later, no statement about "now". Their lawyers can rightly argue that as long as they upload them immediately they are being truthful. "uploaded later when the TV is offline" is illogical nonsense, how is it uploading when it is offline? Their lawyers can rightly argue that as long as they upload later when the TV is online and the TV never lost connectivity, then they are being truthful. They can remove the ambiguity by stating that they never upload the speech-recognition results or only retain them until the voice-related feature has completed the task. Weird how their lawyers made this so specific. > ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV’s internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. Again, "or". "uses" does not mean exclusively uses. "collect" only means ACR does not collect it. This does not indicate that screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings are not collected by other processes. It does not indicate that they do not use the resources collected by those other processes. They can remove the ambiguity by stating that ACR does not "use" these data sources and exclusively uses audio fingerprinting technology. Weird how their lawyers made this so specific. Truly so odd how their lawyers make such precise, minute, and nuanced distinctions for their benefit, but leave everything else so ambiguous they can rightfully argue a tortured interpretation is technically truthful. If they were lawyers on behalf of the consumers, they would never accept such ambiguous language. Must be accidental.
• MrWiffles 5d ago
  Assuming one even believes this drivel… It doesn’t matter how it’s done at all, this is still 100% scumbaggery. I blame two parties: the company, and the lack of law enforcement that goes after that company with fines large enough to end its existence and/or jail time for its executives. Corporate veil blah blah blah. Antitrust or pierce it. Enough is enough. It’s high time for an entirely new branch of legal theory and code in the United States: Corporate Criminal Law.
• delis-thumbs-7e 5d ago
  Do not buy a ”smart-TV”, ie. a display with a PC meant to be connected to a network. Anything that has a microphone, camera, speakers is a security hazard and should be only connected to a physically separated local network - I’m discussing AV edge devoces specifically, I espect people here to understand hazards of smart phones etc. I’d say stay clear off of any IoT-devices period. Source: 10 years in AV industry, installed thousands of these. They all suck. I might add that even though I know better, I have fallen for some smart led lamps etc. I change them with regular bulbs as they break.
• jlzhengkun 5d ago
  [flagged]
• InsomniacL 5d ago
  ~"ACR is an OPT-IN feature" If ACR is turned on when I install an app, and click 'next', 'next', 'open' then that is not an OPT-INT feature. If I have to perform an action to not have ACR during normal use of the TV then that is OPT-OUT in my opinion.
• tomkarho 4d ago
  1. We do NOT record or log anything 2. We might log something but it is local only and these specific features 3. Okay maybe we'll log a little but the TOS gives us permission 4. Yes we log and record everything and this is why it's a good thing; you ought to pay us actually
  • jakzurr 4d ago
    OMG, yeah, that made me laugh. Then cry.
• _kb 4d ago
  I've spent a fair chunk of career designing/building installed audiovisual systems. Displays devices are what terrify me most from a security perspective (and it's a low bar in that world). They should never be network connected. Ever. It doesn't matter if they are a domestic or commercial device. Consider their usage in emergency response centres, situation rooms, infrastructure monitoring, meeting rooms in government offices, boardrooms at publicly listed companies, trading desks, or peoples homes as their source of news. They have access to every pixel shown. They'll also likely have a full audio feed even if audio is passing through another system. You can have all the security control that you like on upstream systems, strong integrity guarantees, and comprehensive validation of that. This is the device where you are most open to exfil or tampering before it's shown to someone. Even if the vendor isn't the one trying to actively exploit you they're almost universally running some form of incredibly dated, unpatched, and unhardened OS that is riddled with nightmare material vulnerabilities. Don't even put them on your IoT/untrusted network. If you need to control them, use CEC/DDC or a serial connection. Preferably unidirectional.
• MS8080 4d ago
  ofcourse they will deny, imagine if they admit
• ralferoo 4d ago
  > Automatic content recognition (ACR) is an opt-in feature according to LG, which delivers personalized content recommendations, as well as services and advertisements. And content recommendations, services and advertisements are exactly what most customers don't want.
• daviddumon 4d ago
  Well, this problem was solved for years ago : only use TV as a dumb screen, never ever connect it to Internet. Solved. Only use smart devices for content that you "trust" (if that's even possible in 2026 for any of them ...).
• Zigurd 4d ago
  If you use streaming at all, you can't defend against all data collection, but you can minimize it. Don't put your TV on your network. Use a streaming box and keep it powered off unless you're using it. Not just turned off, but unplugged. A TV that's plugged into power and is on your LAN is way too opaque about what it's doing when, and it has access to too many ways of sensing what you are doing.
• deleted 4d ago
  [deleted]
• germandiago 4d ago
  Consumers should punish these behaviors fiercely.
• softwaredoug 4d ago
  Texas had a lawsuit against LG that settled in the spring. Sadly with a default of you’re opted in, and you’re presented the option to opt out[1]. As others have pointed out, you’re presented this at the same time as normal ToS. So it’s very confusing to even me what to opt in to use basic TV functionality. It absolutely feels like a dark pattern. 1 - https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-secures-major-agreement-lg-protect-texans-privacy-and-stop-data-being https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-...
• dijit 4d ago
  except for the fact that it was literally shown? What am I missing; was it the rootkit itself that added the functionality to do background recording and dictation? I fucking doubt it.
• didgetmaster 4d ago
  Is this one of those cases where the TV is being subsidized by the data collection? In other words, if LG had to turn it off, would they have to charge more for the TVs? Kind of like so many ink jet printers where the manufacturers will sell you the printer at or below cost with the expectation of making it up with overpriced ink cartridges.
  • accrual 4d ago
    Yes, but I think it's far more sinister than that. It's not just to recoup costs by showing an ad here and there, it's to "own" an advertisement and data collection front in millions of homes across the globe where the consumer is the product. It's to build a surveillance network and to lease it out or use it themselves. GamersNexus just released a brand new followup to LG's response and it's damning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME
• hn_submit 4d ago
  When they send fingerprints (cryptographic hashes) of the content your watching isn't that "snooping" by definition? OK, they're not recording everything I say or do (probably) but their categorical denial is insincere and factually inaccurate. If their claim that ACR is "opt-in" is correct it does give them some slack. And just because everybody else does it too don't make it right.
  • softwaredoug 4d ago
    I'm not sure I'd say it's "opt-in" It's presented as a series of checkboxes when you're using their native WebOS. As if to use Netflix you have to agree to ToS. One of the checkboxes says "ACR" without defining what that is. The default is "Select All" and submit. There's no "Select Minimal" or somesuch.
• kylehotchkiss 4d ago
  My many successful brightdata calls say ACTUALLY TRUE :D
• nomendos 4d ago
  Response from LG says that they are DISHONEST! They massaged the statement to "sound like" instead of to unambiguously refute or admit and I hope most people read it carefully. Burden of proof is on LG, not on us and instead of they play dishonest games! So, it is double-confirmed dishonesty and they should not be trusted further on EVER!