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Rockstar employee shares account of the company's union-busting efforts
- shaky-carrousel 10mo agoWell, there goes GTA 6. Better for my wallet, I guess. Don't want to finance some thugs.
- beepbooptheory 10mo agoPerhaps we can all hope one falls off the back of a truck for each of us.
- pixelpoet 10mo agoI'll probably end up buying GTA 6, once it's on sale or something; good people worked on it too I would imagine, and helped make it a good game. Also, with apologies for the whataboutism, we unfortunately finance thugs all day every day (my internet provider, German government and pension, Deutsche Bahn, etc are massive extortionists); it's not really black and white.
- martin-t 10mo agoAnd this is why "vote with your wallet" does not work. As a consumer there's no way to decide who gets the money. In fact, even the people who made the game (did the actual work, not managers, advertisers, etc.) don't get to decide. Correct me if I am wrong but the programmers, designers, artists have already been paid and any money from sales goes to the company and its execs/shareholders. (And yes, employees can also be shareholders but they almost always own such a tiny share it does not really matter. In a just world, ownership would be distributed automatically according to time_worked * skill_level.) EDIT: I might have overstated by saying it doesn't work but it definitely doesn't have the same level of effect as people collectively saying "this behavior is wrong and you will be punished for it, regardless if I buy the product" (for example by editing laws). It also doesn't allow any control over how the money is distributed among those who worked on it (compared to for example adding a law that limits absolute/relative spending on marketing - whether you think it's a good idea or not).
- skotobaza 10mo ago> and any money from sales goes to the company and its execs/shareholders Some companies may share a profit. I heard that Activision used to pay some of the revenue from Call of Duty to the developers, although I can't confirm it. And it was a long time ago, not sure if they still do.
- __MatrixMan__ 10mo agoIt would work if we dispensed with intellectual property and instead voted on what should be created rather than on what already has.
- martin-t 10mo agoI hear this argument with some regularity and i don't think it would work the way you expect. Have you gamed it out in your head? 1) A lot of people would immediately stop contributing to open source. In fact i ahead have because ML is being used to launder my work to use it without resourcing my licenses. Same with any other area where people share their work for free. It would all be monetized by those with access to better advertising. 2) Anything published would be immediately scooped up by the big players. How would a small competitor like Nebula compete with YouTube if YouTube took all its content and offered it for free with ads? 3) How would you even know who the original creator was if those stealing the work stripped away attribution? They already do but at least you have some limited ways to fight them.
- __MatrixMan__ 10mo ago1) I contribute to open source because I want the thing to exist. I use open licenses because I don't want anybody to use the law to deny anybody else access to it. If we gut the parts of the law by which others would deny access, I no longer have to worry about licensing, but my original motivated is untouched. 2) what do you mean "scooped up"? What's to stop a small platform from providing the same content that a large platform does, if we've done away with intellectual property? 3) I'm confused. If you're paying somebody to create a proposed work, and then they create it and get paid for doing so, and then nobody is allowed to restrict access to it, where does the theft come in?
- righthand 10mo agoIt’s so nice to be guilted into supporting awful people, because a bunch of nice people were abused by the awful people but at least the art will keep one entertained and the corpos keep on abusing.
- pixelpoet 10mo agoIt's so easy to forget or ignore the good people whose great work was overshadowed by random controversy out of their hands. It's not the fault of the programmers who wrote the animation systems, or the artists who styled the characters' hair, that some random dickface manager pulled a random dickface move. I write this out of pure sympathy for the incredible work that I know gamedevs do, I'm not associated with Rockstar at all.
- righthand 10mo agoBy the time the game ships, these “Poor” creatives have already been paid. By buying after the fact, you just keep the corpo abuse machine going for the next game. That is why that logic is broken. You’re just supporting the next wave of abuse for GTA7 not helping out employees.
- Animats 10mo agoGTA 6 just slipped to late 2026. At least.[1] [1] https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/gta-6-delayed-once-again-to-november-2026/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/gaming/gta-6-delayed-once-again-to...
- fracus 10mo agoI think the offline gameplay of GTA is becoming dated. Playing GTAV just felt like cut scene, then chores, cut scene, then chores, rinse, repeat. To be fair, I don't understand the purpose of GTA online but it was wildly popular.
- jrflowers 10mo agoI’m also kind of concerned about the game itself suffering. If they’re shedding institutional knowledge to avoid unions we could end up with a vibe coded GTA 6. Like imagine if MindsEye had thirteen years of anticipation before it came out.
- mmooss 10mo agoFor the full post, see here: https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-union-busting/#comment-1072605777 https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-u...
- lazzlazzlazz 10mo ago[flagged]
- vlovich123 10mo agoCitations? I’m not aware of this strong a conclusion. In fact, my understanding is that generally wages go up.
- vlovich123 10mo agoDoing my own research, ChatGPT summarizes the state as generally unions improve wages and working conditions for employees much more than they pay in premiums. This has gone down since the 1970s but is still a noticeable effect. Indeed the 40 hour work week comes from unions. There is a negative effect on profitability, but that’s subject to interpretation: > The negative effect on profitability from unionization may reflect that unions raise labour costs (via higher wages/benefits) and may impose work rules or other constraints that reduce flexibility. The classic model: higher labour cost → lower margins, unless offset by higher productivity or price increases. But the productivity and growth effects are less clear: many studies find little or no negative effect on productivity or capital structure, suggesting that unions may shift the distribution of returns (towards workers) rather than clearly kill growth. So it may be worth revisiting the research you cited so decisively against unions as it likely contradicts your belief about them.
- cwillu 10mo agoI believe you replied to the wrong comment
- jjulius 10mo ago>Doing my own research, ChatGPT summarizes... One of these things is not like the other.
- vlovich123 10mo agoNo but one step further than OP went making unsubstantiated claims that actually contradicts the actual research that paints a much more complicated picture.
- metadat 10mo agoThis makes me sad, R* has made some of my most favorite games, especially Red Dead Redemption 2. They make so much money, why can't they play nice and treat their employees like human beings? I don't recall reports of Valve (Steam, also super profitable) stooping. Is Rockstar a genetic relative of GAFA, because this is more like what I've come to expect from Amazon.
- zaptheimpaler 10mo agoBecause no amount of profit is ever enough for the stock market, everything must perpetually grow.
- fn-mote 10mo agoThat’s a very reductionist take on what happened here. I don’t think increased profit is likely to result from these firings. How would it?
- saubeidl 10mo agoProfit = revenue - expenses. Firings reduce expenses, the equation above explains the rest. Of course, that's only in the short term, but that's what exec bonuses are given out on!
- wahnfrieden 10mo agoFirings in this case were for union busting. Illegal union busting is profitable - that's why business owners do it. Because it's illegal, they will make up a different excuse for why the workers were fired. They will never admit to illegal union busting. So you should not take their statements as good faith.
- zaptheimpaler 10mo agoIt may sound simplistic but its the truth and there are plenty of other examples and history around this - Starbucks recently. 30 employees unionizing may not have any significant impact on their profits, but if they let that union grow it would have a lot more members demanding better working hours or wages over time. A strong union also generally leads to a loss of control by management where they have to negotiate more with workers which they don't like. Why do you think they were fired?
- burnt-resistor 10mo agoThe accusations of "IP theft" are already flying. Creative people, technical people, and everyone must stop working for megacorps and form their own, civilized worker-owned co-ops. Corporations will never respect those who perform labor, and will never ensure sustainable work environments.
- dude250711 10mo agoGood news is that, especially given the modern distribution methods, they are already very free to raise capital or take their life savings and make courageous bets on their creativity!
- sonu27 10mo agoDefinitely one for the courts
- pera 10mo agoThere is a fundraising for that organised by their union (IWGB Game Workers): https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/support-rockstar-workers-fighting-unfair-dismissals https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/support-rockstar-worke...
- Ekaros 10mo agoWhy does this look horribly wrong to me. Why does a union need a fundraiser? Shouldn't they have hold tight belt and have significant war chest for this? Or take extra fees from the new members?
- pera 10mo agoIt does feel wrong because in our society having access to more financial resources often translates to better representation in the courtroom. This is similar to how donating to organizations like the EFF can provide more justice to those who are not multibillion-dollar corporations.
- rwmj 10mo ago(Employment Tribunal, but yes.) If even half the stuff in the posting is true, it should be an easy win. Unfortunately Legal Aid for Employment Tribunals has been cut to the bone, but their union should be able to help here by taking the case up on their behalf.
- monospacegames 10mo agoWouldn't have happened under Dan Houser. R* made too much money for its own good. On another note, heard on Bloomberg today that they've been working on GTA 6 for 10 years at this point. Considering the size of their development teams it's possible that more manhours may have gone into this single title than all video games that were made until the PS1 era combined.
- ml-anon 10mo agoI’m sure it’ll be as good as Duke Nukem Forever and Daikatana put together.
- lawlessone 10mo agoIs there a cut off? at some point the stuff they made / wrote when they started working must be becoming dated.
- esskay 10mo agoWhat makes you think Dan would've handled it any differently? Rockstars got a long well known track record of being in crunch mode with obscene hours, that didn't suddenly start after Dan left.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- bespokedevelopr 10mo ago> On another note, heard on Bloomberg today that they've been working on GTA 6 for 10 years at this point. It’s incredible to think about what else has happened during these past 10 years of development. Or think about other decade long stretches and what was accomplished. Not cutting short what the undertaking of this is, just that the scale of this project spanning a decade is fascinating.
- elephanlemon 10mo agoAs a kid I always lamented that every studio seemed to sell out as soon as they had the chance. Valve is basically the only one that didn’t… clearly it’s paid off very well for Gabe and the employees. Wish more people would resist the payday and keep what’s theirs.
- immibis 10mo agoGabe is the Apple of PC gaming, taking a 30% tax on all transactions. It's not this particular kind of evil, but it is a different kind of evil.
- samiwami 10mo agoThere is nothing forcing developers to release on steam, they can sell directly through a website. It’s not Valve’s fault no other competitor has gotten close to the quality of Steam. Epic Games could have made a dent, but they decided to try to bribe customers instead of making a functioning store.
- SaltyBackendGuy 10mo agoThis made me laugh. I tried Epic because I got a free game that I was interested in, but could only play it on the Epic Game store. After a week, I was no longer able to login no matter what I tried. So anecdotally, your statement tracks with my experience.
- gruez 10mo ago>instead of making a functioning store. For all intents and purposes it's "functioning" for me. You can search for a game, hit buy, put in your credit card number, then download/play it. I've seen some spurious arguments about how it lacks a cart or reviews, but it's a stretch to claim the lack of them makes them non "functioning". I never bulk buy games, and for reviews I can go to steam or metacritic.
- skotobaza 10mo ago
- lingrush4 10mo ago> I am aware of one employee who had a panic attack at this moment, and HR hung up on them during this panic attack not caring at all about their wellbeing. One can only hope this employee survived.
- Permit 10mo agoHow many people die each year from panic attacks?
- joshe 10mo agoWhat's sad is that unionizing will accelerate whatever the decline of the company is causing the dissatisfaction. Wiser for employees to just jump ship or found a new game studio when this kind of decline happens. The chances of a company turning around are super low, adding a union makes it harder. Just run.
- kelseyfrog 10mo agoThe alternative to every company is to proactively repair the conditions incentivizing the formation of a union. It continues to amaze me that those in charge of making those decisions choose decline over alternatives.
- hiddencost 10mo agoBaseless claims can be dismissed without evidence. Happy employees are more efficient.
- blasphemers 10mo agoThe thing holding back unions in the U.S is the unions themselves and the laws around them. Once a union forms, they have entirely too much power.
- tclancy 10mo agoNext thing you know, people want to not work on weekends!
- pixelpoet 10mo agoVery brave of them to speak out, but TBH I'm not sure I'd do it if I were worried about anonymity - their written English is flawless, which is very uncommon. Unless they took considerable care to imitate a different writing style, it's probably trivial to identify who wrote it. In any case, a longtime friend of mine was senior graphics programmer on GTA5, and I was very close to interviewing with Rockstar in Edinburgh at his recommendation. But then I remembered how gamedev burnt me out at age 19 (my first job, at Lionhead), and how I've never been burnt out since, and decided against it. Been in offline rendering since then and never looked back.
- flumpcakes 10mo ago> their written English is flawless, which is very uncommon. Unless they took considerable care to imitate a different writing style, it's probably trivial to identify who wrote it. Rockstar North is based in Edinburgh as you say, why wouldn't English be at a high level?
- pixelpoet 10mo agoI'm going to get downvoted into a massive smoking hole in the ground for daring to state this opinion, but, as a lifelong enjoyer of the English language: native speakers butcher it the most.
- hamdingers 10mo agoIn much the same way chess grand masters make moves that don't make sense to the novice.
- pixelpoet 10mo agoAt a guess: polyglots try to raise the error floor of their languages / not make basic common mistakes, whereas monoglots have no concern with / perception of this all.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- motbus3 10mo agoNot that they did on purpose or anything, but the delay was at a very convenient time
- neilv 10mo ago* I want to keep liking GTA, and to keep giving Rockstar more money, for each new chapter and new console/device. If it turns out that Rockstar was union-busting and defaming, then I really hope that they soon have a we-messed-up moment, and genuine corrective action for whatever went wrong. * Has anyone heard of game-buying consumers voting en masse with their pocketbooks over ethical/social concerns about a game/publisher/studio? (I absolutely don't mean something like the Gamergate psychosis, though that was the first very loosely related event that came to mind. I mean respectable commercial boycotts, for admirable reasons.)
- saintfire 10mo agoThere was a big deal made over Blizzard's policy and behaviour. Also, I may be misremembering, but there was something pertaining to esports supressing the hong Kong riots.
- neilv 10mo agoThanks: /r/gaming post that wasn't only about product: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/154ko01/why_is_blizzard_such_a_mess_and_ruining/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/154ko01/why_is_bliz... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment#Hearthstone_ban_and_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blizzard_Entertainment#Hearths...
- Night_Thastus 10mo agoRockstar has historically always had anti-worker practices baked in, with crunch culture being the obvious one. They aren't your or their workers friend. They're in it to make boatloads of cash and will do whatever to whoever is needed. And no, consumers have never really cared in the gaming space. They won't do anything differently because of this.
- tharne 10mo ago> And no, consumers have never really cared in the gaming space. They won't do anything differently because of this. Consumers almost never care outside of isolated causes du jour or when it directly affects someone they know. Look at all the self-proclaimed socialists and progressives walking around with iPhones manufactured by Foxconn, a company known for treating its employees so badly there were inquiries into the suicide rates of their workers at one point. While I have my concerns about unions, they are absolutely necessary in many cases. Companies are not your friend, nor are your fellow consumers most of the time.
- ChrisArchitect 10mo agoCould have kept the Rockstar Games in the title for clarity
- exabrial 10mo agoEvery union I've been a part of has been more of a pain than its worth, or has tried to keep individuals from become any more successful that others. I don't understand the obsession with them on HN.
- newfriend 10mo agoIt's a luxury belief held by those who aren't personally affected by any drawbacks. Many such cases.
- tialaramex 10mo agoI am an individual who doesn't like just being one of a group, so I have never joined a union, but I support some union actions at my employer and so I too go on strike (and thus don't get paid) if I agree with the cause of their action. It can be simultaneously true that unions aren't perfect and that unionisation is better than not. Indeed that's par for the course, there's plenty to dislike about democracy, but the alternatives we've tried are worse for example.
- mlrtime 10mo agoI'm guessing 90%+ of HN posters are not in a union. They idealize what it could be, not what it actually is.
- rburhum 10mo agoTry to work at a place that has a union and decide to not be part of it... then you can see the true face of injustice. Don't want to be extorted out of union fees? Good luck, you are better off working somewhere else.
- mrkpdl 10mo agoThis is not representative of all unions, and the union fees are generally small compared to the higher wages that wouldn’t exist were there not a union in place. Mathematically you give a little to get a lot.
- hn_acc1 10mo ago
- physarum_salad 10mo agoI love GTA/Red Dead but Rockstar really is just another monopoly (in terms of creativity) at this stage. More mid sized studios, like Rockstar when it started/midway, would be better. Also the narrative and dialogue is ever so slightly overated in Rockstar games because the competition is quite nerdy/square in that department as are most of the audience. The ending of Red Dead II was actually quite trite, especially in terms of dialogue and narrative (in my opinion) even though the game is incredible overall. It is honestly still very far from a Tarantino script.
- t-writescode 10mo ago“Monopoly” has a particular meaning. Would you describe how Rockstar is one? Or is even one of a small list of “big dogs” / defacto choices in a specific industry?
- physarum_salad 10mo agoYes, that's vague. I specifically mean a creative monopoly. Compare the writing and dialogue of a Paul Thomas Anderson or Tarantino movie to Rockstar. Most of their games don't come close. Because it's a game the standard for storyline and dialogue is slightly lower because you are like "wow I am almost literally a cowboy/Nico". I wonder if we will see a mix of games with genuinely Tarantino style writing and narrative + technical / design implementation. Small studios doing this faster and more ethically would be better. People who quit Rockstar are very talented with something to prove too. I genuinely cringed at the end of RDII due to the dialogue just feel the need to mention that again...
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- codeduck 10mo agoPretty sure this is illegal under UK employment law. I smell a very uncomfortable period for Rockstar's HR department
- hnthrowaway0315 10mo agoThis is but a small set back. I hope people recall what their ancestors did in the early days of unioning.
- ElevenLathe 10mo agoI would encourage anyone in tech that is interested in forming a union at their workplace to sign up for CWA's CODE (Campaign to Organize Digital Employees) training: https://code-cwa.org/ https://code-cwa.org/ CWA is a big, traditional, national union (think phone company employees, health care workers, flight attendants) that has voted to set aside a portion of their dues to help organize us, their fellow workers in the tech sector, which I consider a truly beautiful act of solidarity. They are having some successes, which seem to be building. Getting plugged in with the training and, almost as importantly, a CWA organizer, is a great first step if you know you'd like a union but don't know where to start.
- annexrichmond 10mo agoAre you aware of any resources for how to combat colleagues aiming to start a union? I am personally opposed to being part of a union.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- vkou 10mo agoIf you don't like the people you're working with, you could quit. You could also vote no on a unionization vote, or just not join. I'm sure your loyalty will get a special consideration when the next round of arbitrary layoffs (coupled with record-breaking profits) happens.
- nevon 10mo agoI have a simple solution for you: don't join a union if you don't want to be part of one.
- CamperBob2 10mo agoThat option isn't always available, at least in the US. Unless you live in a right-to-work state, you may be forced to join the union as a condition of employment. Somehow this is seen as "more progressive."
- marknutter 10mo agoStart your own company that supports unionization. Problem solved.
- benzible 10mo agohttps://archive.is/bDc8R https://archive.is/bDc8R
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- gorbachev 10mo agoThey are going to get smacked down hard in the UK, if the post has the events described accurately. What was done was blatantly illegal, EVEN IF the people weren't fired for union organizing, which Rockstar will have a hard time explaining away since they fired only people involved in union organizing. The fired employees in the UK (not sure about Canada) will get back pay and penalties once the unavoidable legal process finishes. I'm sure, however, Rockstar will consider all of the sanctions they'll receive as price of doing business. Despicable.
- nfriedly 10mo agoHN is currently linking to the start of the forum thread, but here is a direct link to the Rockstar employe's reply: https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-union-busting/#comment-1072605777 https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-u... (And, the very next post is the forum admin confirming that the poster is indeed a rockstar employee.)
- anordin95 10mo agoI'm an American who was retaliated against in the past for collective bargaining efforts. Luckily, that's illegal here as codified by the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (it probably is in the UK too, I'm just not as familiar with their laws). I filed a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) and eventually won my case, receiving compensation with interest; the Company also had to inform all employees of their collective bargaining rights digitally and physically. Once the government shutdown ends, I highly recommend the affected American individuals file a complaint with the NLRB via their website: https://www.nlrb.gov/ https://www.nlrb.gov/
- anordin95 10mo agoI should have mentioned that the government foots the legal bill! That is, you don't need to hire your own costly lawyer. The case will eventually be USA vs. (your old company), and you're a potential beneficiary.
- worik 10mo agoThis is relevant https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-union-busting/?do=findComment&comment=1072605777 https://gtaforums.com/topic/1004182-rockstar-games-alleged-u...
- sam345 10mo agoIf you want to destroy and beuracratize your relationship with your fellow employees and boss unionize your workplace. In Unions have been on a downnward slide for a reason.