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Career advice no one gave me: Give a lot of notice when you quit

• atkailash 3y ago
  [dead]
• theodore9dy 3y ago
  Big fan of advice like this.
  • repeek 3y ago
    Lets assume you gave notice because you're moving to a new job. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where your new employer would be OK with a multi-month delay to your start.
• legerdemain 3y ago
  Upon receiving notice of intent to leave, one of my previous employers would walk you out the door same day. In their judgment, removing quitters immediately was worth the loss of organizational knowledge and team planning challenges that resulted. Needless to say, their code was full of people papering over code no one understood anymore, duplicated features that interacted poorly, and so on.
• olliej 3y ago
  While giving notice is polite, it's important to note that it is just a courtesy in most places, and you're providing that courtesy to something that will happily fire you with no notice if it benefits them. If you're somewhere an employer can treat you as having quit the day you provide notice, then you should give minimal notice to maximize stock vesting, benefits, etc. So you don't need to provide "more notice (a lot more notice)" as the benefits listed just aren't real. I've replaced bullet points with numbers for ease of reference: 1. Do only the parts of your job you enjoy the most 2. Eliminate ~all stress from your job 3. Get paid the same 4. Extend your benefits for longer 5. Take unused vacation time 6. Vest more stock 7. Get your bonus 8. Leave on a positive note 9. Be thanked and appreciated by everyone Of these the only a few are unequivocally true, and most are just false or unnecessary, or even contradictory. The true ones are (3), (4), and (6), and only if you live in a place where an employer is not permitted to terminate your employment upon notice. Your primary goal in providing this courtesy is (8) leaving on a positive note, but if you're trying to do that then (1) and (2) are out. You're employed, you have to do your job, and if you shirk that then you're not leaving on a positive note. At the same time if you've announced you're leaving the company has no reason to continue being nice/trying to keep you. So we're down to (5), (7), and (9). In most countries (5) is some variation of "earned income", that is you've earned that money and they have to pay you out when your employment class. In many countries sick leave is also earned income and must also be paid out. Hence (5) is unnecessary. If you aren't in such a state or country, then you're beholden to "can I be terminated immediately upon notice", in which case you're better off going on vacation, and then handing in notice. (7) isn't going to happen once you hand in your notice. Either you've already been awarded your bonus, in which case they can't claw it back, or there's no reason for them to give you one - you've given notice so giving you a bonus isn't going to benefit them. Finally for (9), you don't need more than 2 weeks notice. You don't really even need a week for that. This particular point feels like it's part of the "your job is your family" nonsense that is routinely exploited by employers. There is no benefit to extended notice unless you're trying to ensure that (8) will leave you the option to return or work for the same group of people elsewhere in future.
  • olliej 3y ago
    Another point, this person has what to me is inverted priorities: they say give more notice to a bigger company than a small one. If you are leaving a company, the impact of missing an employee is inversely proportional to the size of the company. If you quit a company, which company will find the missing employee harder: the one with 10 thousand employees, or the one with 10? Who will be more impacted by losing and engineer or artist, EA or some indie gamedev?
  • ghaff 3y ago
    >In most countries (5) is some variation of "earned income", that is you've earned that money and they have to pay you out when your employment ceases. In many countries sick leave is also earned income and must also be paid out. Hence (5) is unnecessary. Yes, but if they let you have a "last working day" and then take vacation, you're getting both your salary and your benefits (like healthcare) for that time. Depending on the circumstances--i.e. retiring or taking time off between jobs anyway--this may be the better deal. Even if they say no, you still get the money.
    • olliej 3y ago
      That's (4) I think -- extending benefits, rather than being needed to get your vacation time. It falls into where I said "you're better off going on vacation, and then handing in notice". Handing in notice pre-vacation gives them the opportunity to say "well you're resigning anyway so today is your last day" in many jurisdictions, or simply inviting pettiness: a boss just refuses to approve your vacation request after you hand in notice - it doesn't save them money to refuse it, it's just being petty. The whole point of the article is that you benefit from giving lots of notice, but that's just not true. Say you want to quit in 8 weeks, you could give 8 weeks notice today, or you could give 2 weeks notice in 6 weeks. In both cases you get employee benefits for the same amount of time, you have the same opportunity to use vacation time, etc. But in the former case you also have the option in many places for them to just say "ok, today is your last day" - I _think_ in less anti-worker areas such a dismissal would not be valid (e.g. the company can stop you entering the premises, but would have to consider you still employed, _or_ they would have to report you as being terminated rather than resigning which has legal implications for them), but even then you aren't getting any real benefit from the early notice. Honestly the only people who gain anything from you giving advanced notice is your employer, and these are the same employers who can (and do) fire you essentially without notice.
• PretzelPirate 3y ago
  Big companies I've worked for won't allow a long notice period. They don't want the risk.
• pengaru 3y ago
  This is highly subjective as in it depends tremendously on the role, employer, and the given employee:employer relationship. At one startup where I played workaholic for several years establishing substantial leverage and dependency on my presence, I didn't just give heaps of notice; I plain asked the CEO how to gracefully exit the company. Right thing to do, yeah? Except he disastrously mishandled the situation by insisting I stay "until the end". Neglecting to take advantage of the opportunity to tell me exactly for how long and with who the knowledge transfers should occur. Instead it just turned into a sort of pissing match where leadership was acting like they owned my autonomy/called my bluff, insisted on paying me for a month+ without coming in "for me to think about it". It was just a ridiculous calamity on their part, culminating in my leaving anyways without any transfer at all. (They eventually went bankrupt after burning >$100M, go figure) In hindsight that experience alone discouraged me from ever letting myself work hard into such a role again. And if you're not in some high-impact, difficult-to-replace, bus-factor role, giving notice really isn't all that important IMO.
• saulpw 3y ago
  I've generally given a lot of notice as an IC, 2-3 months in some cases. and I have to say, I think it's not been appreciated, not even once. I've tried to spend the time wrapping things up, communicating my tacit knowledge to my coworkers, and writing documentation for things that I've done and created and am responsible for; I'm fairly certain that no one has given my opinions and thoughts any more than a cursory amount of attention. Now, I absolutely loathe the modern corporate culture, which is happy to escort you out of the building the moment your employment is terminated, without giving you a chance to even say goodbye to your colleagues, who you might have been working with extensively for years. It's deeply traumatic and it contributes to an overall sense of fear and "screw teamwork, it's everyone for themselves". But now when I "give notice" and they don't even let me try to work the next 2 weeks, I'm grateful. I don't want my coworkers to ignore or patronize me while I sit idle or do make-work. I don't want to have to put on a show about how wonderful the company and team are, and why I'm leaving anyways. Nor do I want to expose my true feelings to my co-workers and infect them with my bad attitude--even if the writing is on the wall for the entire enterprise. It's like a breakup: the best thing for everyone is to make it clean and crisp, say "it's not you, it's me", make a sincere statement to the effect of "let's be friends", and then see each other roughly never again.
  • pfranz 3y ago
    I completely agree. I've been asked to stay on an extra week or two and I think it was a terrible decision. Nobody really cared or paid attention in hand off meetings (I'd like to think careful documentation was later appreciated when someone had to take those things on later) and I was interested in moving on.
  • hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
    I completely agree. The part about infecting people with my attitude is especially relevant. It's normal that we talk. And when they ask "why?", it feels awkward. If I tell them all the reasons, it will influence their perception of their situation (which might be quite positive) and I prefer not to do that. But if I avoid answering, I will be perceived as dishonest or hiding something. So usually I invent some excuse so that nobody feels bad.
• RecycledEle 3y ago
  Nope. If you give a lot of notice before quitting "permanent employment" they will walk you out immediately. It's OK to give a few hints you will not renew a contract as long as you are clear that you still like them and plan to be friends.
  • compiler-guy 3y ago
    Some firms will walk you out immediately, but many won’t. Hopefully you know which kind you are working for.
• monster_group 3y ago
  This is terrible advice. Great that it has worked for the author but it does not mean it's a good idea for everyone. 2 weeks is the standard and as long as you give that you maintain good relations. Most people are not as valuable or important as they like to think they are. I have seen very important people leave / fired and things still go on. (Twitter is still working - isn't it?) Once you tell that you are leaving, everybody's attitude towards you changes. You want to minimize that awkward period. There's nothing to be gained by staying longer than 2 weeks. If you have stock vesting, wait until stock vests before giving 2 weeks notice.
  • ngc248 3y ago
    Yep, everyone is replaceable. 2 weeks should be enough. What's the use in staying more? Anyone who wants to get KT by then should be able to get it.
  • jeffwask 3y ago
    It's so bad it feels like straight up management propaganda
  • hinkley 3y ago
    Two weeks is all most recruiters have ever offered me, and some did so begrudgingly. Which is weird because if I say yes that actually makes me a worse hire.
    • gnicholas 3y ago
      Interesting, I was able to get a couple months when I switched jobs a while back. I think recruiters probably figure the longer the window, the more chance you go do something else instead.
    • projectazorian 3y ago
      Recruiters don’t like people who want >2 weeks because it adds risk that you will renege on the deal, which means they lose out on their payday. But the recruiter isn’t the other party in the negotiation, the hiring manager is. So don’t negotiate start date until you have an offer and are talking to the hiring manager. Save it to the end and you can say “well, I’m still not 100% sure about this offer, but I think this would work if you could push my start date out a bit…”
• klyrs 3y ago
  I gave 4 months notice once, at a 15-person company where I was the lead of a 3-person team responsible for everything technology at the company. My boss was the sort who would tell people to leave immediately, and happily pay the 2 weeks they intended of notice. But I was critical to the functioning of the company, and I was able to hire and onboard a successor. I continued consulting part-time for a while past the end of my employment, it was good for everybody. I've never worked at a job where I would afford the company such a luxury of my time.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• doktorhladnjak 3y ago
  Agree with others that it's bad advice. At my last job I gave about 5 weeks notice which my manager convinced me to extend to 6 weeks. I was a manager and timing at the end of the year was not ideal due to performance review schedules and holidays. Never again. Everything was much more dragged out. Lots of idle time. Lots more "so I hear you're leaving" conversations. Next time, I might do one week notice since this seems to have become a lot more common.
  • DonsDiscountGas 3y ago
    I've seen people give management 1-2 months notice and only make it broadly known for the last 2 weeks. Obviously depends on how much you trust management, but it can avoid that awkwardness.
• ppljudge 3y ago
  A note on the last paragraph about being a “lazy engineer”: this shouldn’t be a factor. Being lazy is subjective and the same engineer can be seen differently depending on the management, team, moment, etc.
• cat_plus_plus 3y ago
  LOL, I tried that at Apple, was immediately made to pack my stuff after watch of a security guard and escorted off premises. As if I couldn't copy their stuff first and give notice later if that was my intent. Now obviously, in a mom and pop shop, I would discuss my desire to leave before I even started looking and help find/train my replacement, while they would likewise help me find a new job that better fits my life situation. But that's just not how corporate America works.
  • smitty1e 3y ago
    This is a strong point: context matters. I signaled I was on the way out for quite a while ahead of putting in two weeks, and it was abundantly clear they'd take me back quite readily. But that situation doesn't generalize.
    • Arrath 3y ago
      > This is a strong point: context matters. Absolutely. I've been at places where I was escorted out five minutes after I gave my notice, and at places where 10 years later they still call me every 8 months or so.
  • brink 3y ago
    Same thing happened to me - told my boss on a Friday that I had received a job offer with a 55% pay raise and was probably going to take it, so we should think about off-boarding. Later that day my admin rights to the gitlab org were removed, was told that "it was a mistake", and was fired the following Monday. They also took my $20k bonus that I was supposed to receive months earlier and used it as a carrot on a stick to get me to sign a bunch of legal paperwork releasing all my rights. At least I got the much needed money. I was really underpaid there. I also lost my best friend who also worked there that decided to side with my boss and the company. lol It was a bad time.
    • zeku 3y ago
      If your best friend abandoned you because you got a 55% raise and tried to give lots of notice, then your best friend was a jerk. Good luck seriously in finding new and more quality friends! You'll find some!
• fwlr 3y ago
  I think there’s a kernel of truth in this post, it does make the correct observation that 2 weeks is not always the correct time. I think it’s deeper than that, there are multiple correct times that are incompatible with each other. This is because there are multiple ways you are integrated into the company and the correct wind-down period for each is different. A few months to find and train a replacement, a few weeks to document all your organizational knowledge, a few days to say goodbye to your colleagues - and for companies with valuable secrets it’s obviously desirable that your access to their information is revoked instantaneously. Ultimately, for a senior software engineer, quitting is just complicated. I think if you want to try a variable-length notice of resignation you need to find someone in the chain of command you trust to be level-headed and pragmatic, approach them with your thoughts of leaving, and (matching their level-headedness and pragmatism) discuss how to make your departure as successful and effective for the company as possible - maybe you start documenting knowledge now, wind down day-to-day fire-fighting responsibilities a week from now, and formally announce your two weeks notice a week after that. But you have to go into that discussion prepared to roll with the decisions they make, all the way from “immediate dismissal and escort from the building” to “they do not want you to quit and try to offer you more money or different responsibilities”. If that gives you trepidation, maybe it’s better to stick to the business standard of two weeks notice. It’s not optimal, but it is well-trodden ground.
• nilram 3y ago
  I've given two weeks notice to employers I didn't like, and had immediate layoffs from employers I liked exceptionally, so I don't feel I should have any obligation in that regard except to myself. I'll the factors that the author mentions and plan ahead (like, taking vacation or exercising options if I care to), but negotiate the rest to my benefit. Based on the article and some comments here, I realize it could be quite valuable to resign early in the month--like, in the first week. For my jobs (in the US), if they take the resignation and walk me out the door immediately, my health insurance would still be in force until the end of the month. My direct experience is that its important to have a week of vacation in-between jobs, just to clear my mind and prepare for the new work. I had an employer who found it urgent that I start ASAP. I tried to negotiate away from their insistence, but eventually gave in to their request. It was the worst starting week ever in terms of my focus and comfort with the new job. Might have been better if I'd taken it as the bad sign that it was and declined their offer.
• m3kw9 3y ago
  They ask me that in the interview when they ask where do you see your self in 5 years. I say “not here” and everybody laughs
• Bhilai 3y ago
  Given the recent round of layoffs when employee access was terminated overnight with no warning or conversation, I think employees should treat the employers the same. Now, I am not saying you just stop showing up one fine day but I am merely saying that I would give my notice, do my 2 weeks and leave. I wont spend time writing any docs for knowledge transfer (been there done that and honestly no one cared) but I will try to wrap up stuff I was working on only because I usually care about what I do.
• kaon123 3y ago
  2 weeks is the standard? I am amazed. In Switzerland where I live, it is 3 full calendar months. And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA... My god 2 weeks lol, someone quits and he is gone the next day. How is this legal?
  • Insanity 3y ago
    I would think that labour laws most definitely are different in those countries. Although USA does have variability by state
  • sdfghswe 3y ago
    > And I thought Switzerland is very similar to the USA What? I suggest you come and visit.
    • adastra22 3y ago
      Switzerland is more similar to the US than the rest of Western Europe in a lot of ways. This is not one of them.
  • AdrianB1 3y ago
    Poland has 3 months for some cases. It is unusual in the rest of the world. In Romania you give 2 weeks notice as an IC and 4 weeks as a manager. It can be shorter if the company agrees, but it cannot be longer by law: you can tell them in advance if you want, they cannot force you to stay if you don't.
  • hinata08 3y ago
    I'm also amazed by the stories of managers who immediately layoff workers who said they will quit. Why ? Is this like some "Oh no you're not deciding to quit, I decided first you're fired, I call dibs !" ? The dude said they will leave anyway. And doing the layoff will just allow him to leave without extensively teaching someone else. This should be illegal as well.
    • Loughla 3y ago
• forinti 3y ago
  I once cut my holiday short so that I could have more time to pass on knowledge about my projects. I left everything documented and up-to-date. Nobody gave me much attention and a year later a new employee was asking me to come by and give a hand. So that's something I'm never doing again.
• grimraxaphon 3y ago
  When you've been laid off, how much notice did your employer give you?
  • CoastalCoder 3y ago
    For me, it was: - accounts locked moments before the layoff announcement. - kept on payroll until the next month, so we'd get another month of benefits - given about 6.5 weeks of severance - allowed to keep my computer It was really nice of them. My only sadness is that there was no chance to say goodbyes, which sucked because we had a wonderful team. I finally realized this downside of team building.
• hnrodey 3y ago
  Speaking as a manager who has managed numerous people through their exit as well as a job changer.... I have to say I disagree with the advice to give extended notice. Proper notice (in US at least) without severe mitigating circumstances is two weeks and that's what you get. If the employer wants to it to be less then so be it. FWIW I've changed job 5-6 times over my professional career and every single time it's been a cordial exit where I've worked out my final two weeks. As the employee submitting your notice - have your ducks-in-a-row before turning in your notice as it maximizes your chance for a smooth exit.
  • ghaff 3y ago
    >As the employee submitting your notice - have your ducks-in-a-row before turning in your notice as it maximizes your chance for a smooth exit. Right. If you have vesting events, expected bonus payouts, etc. wait until after those happen before giving notice as opposed to just assuming the employer will keep you on the payroll as an employee for those two weeks.
    • rootusrootus 3y ago
      If you gave two weeks notice and got terminated immediately to prevent you from benefiting from something that would have vested in that two week period, you have an excellent legal case. Very few businesses of any reasonable size would pull that stunt, it isn't worth the headache. Some very small businesses might try it, because they may not have competent legal counsel to warn them away.
      • ghaff 3y ago
        Why take the risk of needing to pursue legal action? Would waiting a couple more weeks kill you?
• gregoriol 3y ago
  Same experience as many here for me when leaving two companies with a quite long but somehow standard 3 month notice here in France: it felt nice to give my managers/coworkers some time, but overall it wasn't useful. Most of the 2 first months was "as usual" and the real information sharing was done somewhere during the last month. The last week or two were absolutely useless for me and others, as it's just wandering around without any precise task, and everyone being like "oh, you're still here?"
• edandersen 3y ago
  Nobody gave this person this advice because it is bad advice, period. Give your contractual notice, whether thats 2 weeks in the US, or a month or 3 months in the UK or whatever and be prepared to actually leave at the end of it. Any other advice is actually harmful to the majority of people.
  • notservile 3y ago
    There is no contractual notice required to be given in the US. 72 hours notice in some states if you want to be paid out for everything they owe you on the spot. But otherwise I give them about as much notice as they would give me: at 4:59PM on Friday I send an email to HR informing them that today was my last day.
    • KptMarchewa 3y ago
      Can your contract state otherwise?
      • JohnFen 3y ago
        IANAL, but I don't think that a contract can force you to give a particular amount of notice no matter what (I think that would be considered "unconscionable"). But I imagine a contract could specify that if you don't give a certain amount of notice, you won't get severance or similar.
        • notservile 3y ago
          Severance is “bribe” money: it is dangled to people being laid off in return for them signing a paper stating that they give up all rights to sue the company. Severance is never paid unless you sign away your rights. There is no contractual requirement for severance. We are at will slaves.
• Simulacra 3y ago
  When I worked for a Microsoft contractor in 2015, the owners took it very personally whenever someone wanted to leave. If you gave any notice they would accept it without question, but a couple of days later security would suddenly show up and escort you out of the building. That taught me that when I do give notice to prepare to be let go immediately, have everything wrapped up and ready to go.
• user-one1 3y ago
  This is terrible advice, the company will never give you a heads up if they are going to fire you. Do what's best for you. Keeping a good relationship with your current employer comes second.
  • HideousKojima 3y ago
    Not only will they not give you a heads up, they'll outright lie to you about lay-offs right until the moment they happen.
  • Xenoamorphous 3y ago
    The article is precisely about how the extended notice period is good for the employee, not the employer.
  • rootusrootus 3y ago
    The company doesn't care, but your manager and you team might. It is maintaining those relationships that works to your benefit in the future. Burning bridges just because you can is a pretty reliable way of limiting your future career prospects, at least in your local area. Word gets around.
• JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  Giving notice? Be ready to be walked out of the building, which I believe would be as likely as the Pollyanna scenario outlined in the OP. {In which case the part about 'get benefits longer' goes out the window.}
• AdrianB1 3y ago
  I saw many times notice longer than 6 months; the record so far is more than 2 years, but these are special cases: - very high level people like VP level or above - 6 months during which they fully onboard a replacement - a former colleague that was past retirement age, but they had no replacement for him so they convinced him to stay longer (he gave 2 years notice) - my boss is on notice for retirement in more than 18 months from now (he can retire any day he wants, he was the age and he is meeting all criteria) But other than that, I don't recommend a notice longer than 1 month, that is enough for almost any case.
• baus 3y ago
  As a manager I can tell you having a team member leave is not a “get out jail free card.” First you will have to explain why X person is leaving, and it will generally be considered your fault. Second if your team isn’t resistant enough to absorb the impact of one team member leaving, this will also be scrutinized and viewed negatively. Managers are responsible for their team’s performance and not one individual
• sheepscreek 3y ago
  I’ve quit all jobs with 1-2 months notice and can wholeheartedly agree with the author’s narrative. I am still on good terms with my ex-managers and colleagues. There’s another plus to this: when your ex-manager moves to another company and starts hiring there, they’d likely want you again. On the vacation before your last day bit: labor law in most places dictates that employers must reimburse you for any unused vacation days. Unless there’s an “unlimited” vacation policy, which typically caps this at 2 weeks, less any vacation days you take.
  • sheepscreek 3y ago
    One time I even got offered a “bonus” for staying on longer than the notice period. I got to focus on the things that excited me and piece were generally nice. Another time they threw me an expensive send-off - I saw the CEO sign a $800 bill for the ~6/7 of us (a decade ago when the world wasn’t so expensive). Goes to prove the author’s point about this being a win-win. Of course - you probably shouldn’t do this if your boss is a dick and your mental health is at stake. Give this courtesy to those you can see yourself reaching out to in times of need.
• BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  Having this legally set up in France (typically to 3 months) makes it easier for everyone. As an employee you do not get to choose, as the former employer you know exactly what to expect, as the new employer you know you will need to wait. This time can be negotiated down by mutual interest of both parties. It is usually the employee who would initiate the discussion. The calculation also takes into account vacation time so it may be much shorter from the perspective of the employer. Finally, the employer can forbid the employee to come to work and get back all the equipment, but still has to pay them for the 3 months.
• dreen 3y ago
  Don't know about US, but I don't think anyone can actually force you to come to work after youve given notice. The most they can do in UK is not pay you for the notice period. And since the only reference they can later give you is "they worked here", working through your notice period is kinda optional.
• ubermonkey 3y ago
  The posted article presents a naive point of view. In tech, it's very common for those who resign to be walked out of the building immediately. In corporate America, the idea that you'd give THEM more notice than they'd give YOU in the event of layoffs is one-sided. By all means, plan your exit carefully. Ensure your own security. If it's an amiable parting, try not to leave them in a lurch. But all of that is you being nice, not something you have to do. If, as is often the case, you're leaving because you're very unhappy with your situation, there's no point in prolonging it. Go.
  • ghaff 3y ago
    Yeah, two weeks is customary in the US and most employers will either take you up on the offer or walk you out the door but pay for the two weeks anyway because it's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things and it's just easier that way. (and if they weasel out of that two weeks pay it's not a lot of money from the employee side.) I did give 2x longer notice once and it ended up fine but wasn't really necessary. What is important is that if there are vesting dates and things like that, wait until those happen rather than assume employers will let you mean employed through notice periods, vacation days, etc. And, yes, there are doubtless circumstances where "I won't be working here as of next Monday" is probably the prudent approach.
• effingwewt 3y ago
  Lol 'gold standard' please. This is management PR. I've only ever seen 2 week notices screw the workers over- it happened to me several times (to the point I will never do it again no matter the employer). Businesses don't give you notice, you don't owe them a single day. No one owes a company any more than required for their paycheck, stop giving loyalty where none is given. Also- can we please start calling 'layoffs' what they are- firings. Layoffs are done as restructuring, and used to be done in bankruptcy filing, or they used to mean you'd be brought back in. Now companies call every permanent firing 'letting go' or 'layoff'. Stop letting companies re-define words for PR speak. Edit-spelling
• baerrie 3y ago
  The main issue is that even if you give them two weeks or more notice, they can let you go effective immediately leading to lost income. Depending on the company, giving no notice may actually be the better approach.
• jmclnx 3y ago
  This depends upon your situation in your work. But if you feel your managers and company have been good to you or even neutral, then I fully agree with this. Plus it keeps options open for you since things go sideways in your new position.
• the_jeremy 3y ago
  I also categorically disagree with this advice. The people who benefit are not the ones in charge of the decision, and the benefit to your reputation for the ~5 people it really impacts does not outweigh getting to take a stress-free, risk-free sabbatical in between jobs. I have always asked to extend my start date out as far as possible and the new company always pushes back and I end up taking off a few weeks between jobs at most. I am not sacrificing that time for the potential of better parting feelings for a handful of coworkers who take over my stuff, when you should be working toward that lowered bus factor day-to-day, regardless of whether you are planning to leave.
• JohnFen 3y ago
  I agree entirely. It's rare that I've ever given less than a month's notice when leaving a position. My instinct is to give as much notice as I possibly can. In part because it's just professional, and in part because I'm still a part of the team until I leave, and giving the maximal amount of notice is in the team's best interest.
• brundolf 3y ago
  Never thought about it this way, but makes a lot of sense. I gave 4 weeks notice one time because I had an especially large amount of knowledge-transfer to do, and it worked out about like described. And the "fun"/QOL aspects probably are reproducible at the right companies, now that I think about it
• addaon 3y ago
  Disagree with this on several levels. One specific challenge comes as tech companies push more and more compensation to bonuses and other must-be-present-to-win approaches (RSUs, etc). If you leave shortly before a trigger date, you've essentially been working the entire previous year at a discount, since your contractual bonus for the time you worked will never be paid. If you continue significantly past a cliff, then your transition time is being worked at a discount. If you give significant notice, one of two things can happen. If you give notice before the cliff, planning to depart after the cliff (that is, maximizing the percentage of the time worked where the company actually pays you what they agreed you were worth), the company can accelerate the departure schedule and avoid paying out; if you give notice after the cliff, you're inherently volunteering for discount work for a company you didn't even want to work for at full price! In practice, I think at this point that companies that choose to put a large amount of compensation behind a cliff this way are responsible for understanding the consequences of that choice. If you pay 30% or my annual comp, and that of all my peers, on Monthuary 15th, then you should assume that you will get a cluster of resignations on Monthuary 16th each year, that those departures will happen in the standard two weeks, and that because they are clustered you will be unlikely to hand off as easily and fully as if they were scattered. But hey, you managed to screw some of my coworkers who had to leave mid-year for family reasons out of a few bucks!
  • gnicholas 3y ago
    I've heard of employers paying signing bonuses to make up for the fact that an employee is leaving a partially-accrued bonus on the table at the employer he's leaving.
    • addaon 3y ago
      Sure, getting your bonus bought out provides some superficial relief for this problem. But if your next employer thinks that your value is high enough to buy out your bonus, they likely think that independent of the current date (modulo a special case where your value /now/ is significantly higher than it would be in another quarter or whatever). Your next employer gets no value from the fact that you're leaving previous money on the table; if they offer to buy out a bonus, stay, get that bonus, then remind them that they thought you had that additional value and you'll take at as a signing bonus now, thank you very much.
• MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  The most important thing is not to give a lot of notice when you quit, or to give a crap about how much notice you give them at all. It's when. If at all possible, you should give notice at or slightly beyond the first of the month. That way, when you leave, you will most likely retain your benefits through the rest of the month. If your last day is say, the 28th, and you don't start a new job til the 2nd, then you're gonna be without benefits for the entire month.
• dangerboysteve 3y ago
  Sure, give lots of notice but be prepared to be walked out.
• MDGeist 3y ago
  I gave a month notice at my old job so I could close out a project for a client before I left. In the end I don't think anyone but the client cared and it meant I had very little time off before the next job started (three days lol). They also had me train my replacement who spent most of those sessions bitching to me about how he also wanted to leave...
  • ghaff 3y ago
    This hasn't been mentioned much in the comments but it's a big factor for a lot of people. You're probably going to have trouble pushing a new employer out much beyond 4-6 weeks. And, has been discussed here previously, there's always some risk that the further you push out a start date, the more chance there is that something could go sideways in the interim. So, if you want to take off 3-4 weeks between jobs, you really can't give too much notice.
• Analemma_ 3y ago
  Echoing all the previous statements, I gave two weeks' notice when I left my first real job (Microsoft), and they immediately walked me out the door. In this case they weren't jerks about it-- my manager even apologized to me and said if it was up to him they'd've let me stay, but said it was absolutely iron-clad policy that he couldn't change-- but yeah, giving even more notice than that seems to be advice that could only come from someone tremendously naive who has never actually worked in tech.
  • compsciphd 3y ago
    I've been at companies like that, when I told my manager I was leaving, he was basically "lets wait to tell HR until X date so they don't walk you out and you can transition your stuff". Didn't bother me, as the benefits mentioned in article applied.
• geocrasher 3y ago
  This article assumes that you are working for sane people. I left a job after 9 years. I gave 30 days notice. The reason I was leaving? My manager was micromanaging me and threatening me daily. I felt the obligation to give longer than 2 weeks notice because I've been there for so long and was a key employee. Instead of appreciating it, the manager decided that I needed to source, higher, and train my replacement within that 30 days. And then they actually made my life even worse. I ended up quitting two weeks in. I couldn't take it. So yes if you have a wonderful work environment and people who are totally normal and are glad you are there, then giving 30 days notice is great. But if you have that environment, why would you be leaving?
  • nick__m 3y ago
    >But if you have that environment, why would you be leaving? One possible reason would be: you want to do something else because you are bored (ex: you are tired of transforming baroque rules designed by bussines analysts into code) and you don't work in a company where you can transfer laterally.
    • geocrasher 3y ago
      Yeah, I said that somewhat halfheartedly. Brain foggy. I'm just glad my words came out legible.
• anon223345 3y ago
  Giving advanced notice has backfired every.single.time
• fumeux_fume 3y ago
  Key part of the headline is "advice no one gave me." Yeah, because it's bad advice! Even for the usual management propaganda on HN this is obviously on its face bad.
• cde-v 3y ago
  Bootlicker
• oofta-boofta 3y ago
  Companies will drop you in a moment like a freshly pooped turd into a toilet bowl. Give them MORE notice?!?! Lol GTFO.
• AYBABTME 3y ago
  Bad advice. I've seen people give notice way in advance, being terminated on the spot.
• sigstoat 3y ago
  >"Everyone will thank you and appreciate you because you are really doing them a favor. working is a business transaction. "appreciation" comes in the form of cash. if you're not being offered more cash to stick around (beyond the wages that were clearly insufficient motivation), then no, they don't appreciate it.
  • ryukafalz 3y ago
    People at your company besides those with the authority to pay you can also be appreciative.
• autokad 3y ago
  I completely disagree. in the long run, a company is not going to remember you gave them a lot of notice before leaving. your coworkers aren't likely to remember either, at least in terms of your ability to get references. at the same time giving a long notice has a lot of downsides. your offer can get rescinded and now you are either jobless or have a very awkward conversation. your managers in this time will not respect your time, they will pile on all the work no one else wanted. 'lets put so and so on call, they are leaving in a month anyways'.
  • coffeebeqn 3y ago
    Everyone thinks they’re irreplaceable. I’m still honestly shocked my last company didn’t collapse when I left. And yes with 2 weeks notice
    • P_I_Staker 3y ago
      IME, it almost always blows over relatively quickly... it's almost sad.
    • ResearchCode 3y ago
      Everyone is replaceable in the short term. Long term if you lose a few key employees people are left wondering where it all went wrong.
• chickenpotpie 3y ago
  No, no, no, no a billion times no to this absolutely not no The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye." Sometimes it's a blanket company policy to do this, sometimes it's because they know you're going to a competitor and they don't want you to start training for your new job, sometimes they were on the fence about you staying anyways. Do not do this ever end. There is a significant chance you will be instantly fired with no income for months. Don't.
  • DoneWithAllThat 3y ago
    I have literally never experienced or witnessed this for any company I’ve ever worked for. This is just /r/antiwork leaking again.
  • EliRivers 3y ago
    The moment you give your resignation, there are good odds your company will say "we accept your resignation effective immediately. Goodbye." Genuine question; is this a US thing? I've never, ever seen this or heard of it happening. I don't think I've ever worked at a company that didn't state in the contract the notice period. I have seen companies decide they don't want that person on site anymore when someone quits, but they gave "gardening leave"; the person goes home and is effectively on holiday, paid as usual, for their notice period. There is a significant chance you will be instantly fired with no income for months. US "at will" kind of thing? Must be.
    • rawgabbit 3y ago
      For some companies, when you give notice, you are flagged as a security risk. e.g., high chance you will take/steal IP. They will lock down your account, investigate your recent activities, and escort you out the door.
    • lelandfe 3y ago
      Two of my friends did this and were immediately terminated and ushered out of the building by security. Both were very large companies in the US.
• gnulinux 3y ago
  Yeah, how about no? My employer behaves exactly as it's laid out in my contract. I will behave exactly as it's laid out in the contract. If it says 2 weeks, that means 2 weeks, not one day late or early.
  • ghaff 3y ago
    2 weeks in the US is commonly a customary thing as opposed to anything contractual.
• etc-hosts 3y ago
  There's no Field in the global Google doc Who To Hire for "they were nice and gave a lot of notice before quitting" + but I can see how giving a lot of notice will make your manager happy, and could lead to a job lead later in your career. It happened to me.
• 1MachineElf 3y ago
  I've done this, and it's always worked out well for me. My past three jobs received a 1 month notice. The one before that, I told the hiring manager up front that I'd work for them for exactly 1 year. Most of the comments here are against this, many saying they were prematurely removed, some immediately. Perhaps it is different for FAANG and other SV companies typical of HN? Possible reasons why my experience has been different: - I've never worked in a role that is easily replaceable. I've worked mostly consulting for the past decade. The industry has a lot of hiring friction, like extensive background checks, making it hard to give up and replace quality workers. In most cases, even my long notices did not give the employers enough time to find a replacement for me to train. - My direct supervisors, managers above them, and myself, have always shared mutual respect - even when they are difficult people. We all also understand our compensation is mostly related to what customers are paying, so there is no expectation that our salaries can be magically increased. Granted, I did leave one employer over a decade ago with just a day's notice. The company had a lot of problems and hadn't paid me for a few months already, so quitting was well overdue.
• deeviant 3y ago
  I feel this advice ignores the most common scenarios in which one would need to give notice in the first place. If you want to a make a move, you interview, see if you get the position, then give notice. You're not going to want to give notice before you know you get the position, and if you do get it, you're new future employer is unlikely to want to wait months.
• lumb63 3y ago
  What? The company gets 100% of the benefit. Chances are, if you’re leaving a company, you want to leave, and if you’re starting a new job, you want to start it. Why would you want to delay that any more than necessary?
• asciimov 3y ago
  Real Career advice: Do NOT give any indication of leaving to anyone until all your digital stuff is backed up offsite and you know where all your physical things are located. Maybe like the writer, you work for some unicorn with nice and generally well meaning people. They might let you do this. It's more than likely however that your two week notice will be immediate termination.
  • fred_is_fred 3y ago
    Physical stuff makes sense but almost all “digital stuff” belongs to the company. What’s missing from your list is making sure that you’ve moved any accounts, mailing lists, certs etc to your personal email.
• 999900000999 3y ago
  Sounds very navie. Many companies walk you out the door the moment you give notice. If anything you should give at MOST 2 weeks notice. Nothing bad happens if you only give 1 week, or even if you just walk out. Remember, they reserve the right to terminate you without cause at any time.
  • brazzy 3y ago
    US corporate culture is such a horrifying shit show... Where is live, 3 months notice from both sides is a typical contract clause, and walking people who resign out of the door is unheard of.
    • 999900000999 3y ago
      To be fair, tech wages are much higher here. You can make 200k a year as an IC which is unheard of in Europe
      • lmarcos 3y ago
        Narrow perspective. What about all the other non-tech jobs?
        • 999900000999 3y ago
          Unemployment tends to be lower here than in say France. Don't get me wrong, it's not the best system here in the states ( mainly since healthcare is tied to your job), but it has its upsides .
• tomwheeler 3y ago
  My goal is to ensure that the company is in a position to carry on with as little disruption as possible. I've always given at least the (US standard) two weeks, and usually three, but much longer than that can be counterproductive because one can become entrenched in current projects instead of wrapping things up and transitioning them to others. Even when I've been at the same company for many years and have been involved in a lot of projects, this never took more than two weeks because throughout my tenure I do my best to document things, cross-train my co-workers, and ensure that others could take over for me if needed. That last two weeks is usually just a matter of making sure that all my documentation is up-to-date and that people remember what I've taught them.
• Thaxll 3y ago
  3 month notice, lol wtf.
• yobert 3y ago
  I gave 2 years notice at a software job I'd been at for 10 years. It was great! I said I was going to go do something new when I turned 30. The boss appreciated it and we had a lot of time to adjust the direction of the company in the meantime. This was at a very small, tight-knit place though. I'd never do this at a big company.
• bell-cot 3y ago
  The article is so idealistic that I'd call it delusional. Rule 1: Know exactly what your employer's policies and past practices are. Ditto local culture. There is ~zero chance that you actually are Mr./Ms. Special, who your employer will happily treat differently. (Exception: If you have to leave for an extremely sympathetic and/or involuntary reason - fatal cancer diagnosis, drafted into army, etc. - that may actually get special treatment. Even then, such treatment is far more likely at smaller firms, if management cares about maintaining a "good guy" reputation.) Rule 2: If you have some latitude, be considerate with your timing. Giving notice right before the big crunch or busy season will endear you to no one. Rule 3: Never assume that your employer is going to be nice about it. Ditto for them being rational about it, unless currently-in-place management has a long and distinguished history of that.
  • bostik 3y ago
    > There is ~zero chance that you actually are Mr./Ms. Special, who your employer will happily treat differently. Except when you are. When I turned in my notice (in writing), I noted that according to my contract my notice period was X days, but that I wanted to ensure a proper handoff and would voluntarily extend my notice period to X+Y days. The employer was happy to accept X+Y, without arguing. HR even stated that they appreciated me doing it. Then again, I'm not in the US.
• robomartin 3y ago
  I think commenters might not be aware of potential legal consequences of various approaches to quitting your job. Employers might no option but to get you out the door immediately. It depends on the domain. IANAL so I will not comment on specifics only to say that, as an employer, I've had to consult our attorney in cases where we were working on government/aerospace programs. On the other side of the equation, years ago I had one of our engineers tell me he was starting a business and would likely have to leave in three months (over the summer). As much as I didn't like the idea of him leaving, I thought it was a fantastic move for him. I am 100% pro-entrepreneurship and fully supported his decision. In fact, during the that summer --the last three months he worked for us-- we all went out of our way to help him in any way we could. I wanted to personally make sure he launched into his new business with a solid footing. As a result the transition was beautiful. We even threw a party in celebration just before he left. We still keep in touch. He is doing well. After he left he was happy to come over a couple of times and help resolve things we missed during the transition. If you treat people like human beings and show them you truly care for their wellbeing everything is better. Companies come and go. People, and their relationships, tend to stay. If sometime in the future I closed-down my business and needed a job, I know I could reach out to him and get hired if he needed help. I don't say this in a religious sense: Treat others the way you would like to be treated. To answer the obvious question: In the couple of cases where the attorneys said immediate release was required, we went way out of our way to explain why this had to be. We also provided a solid financial cushion in order to ensure the person leaving didn't jump into a vacuum. It sucks when legal-crap gets in the way of considerate, compassionate human relations. Sometimes you have no options on the table.
• sitkack 3y ago
  How many times has David resigned this way? Twice! I have seen probably close to 100 people give notice in my life. Many get the door as soon as they resign. Many get 2x the workload while the wrap things up. This is straight up naive advice. One guy gave his 6 weeks notice, his last day would be two weeks after bonus payout. He was a super critical eng on a component in a system that brought in a couple hundred million in revenue. He had started documenting the systems, setting up meetings. HR informed the team that his last day would be the following friday. In 5 working days. It screwed the team and it screwed him. There was no backsies. Why anyone would trust a corporation not to fire them immediately is being willfully naive. If one does do this, have all your ducks in a row and expect your last day to be the moment you submit your resignation. Check with local labor laws and structure your resignation for maximum "impact" for whatever your definition of that word is.
• hk1337 3y ago
  I think you need to feel out the culture of the company and how knowledge transfer would work out to determine how much notice to give.
• mbfg 3y ago
  "I'll give my future company a month or two to rescind their offer." horrendous advice.
• refulgentis 3y ago
  This is awful advice.
• PaywallBuster 3y ago
  Coming from EU, one month notice both ways is the norm (a lot of people get hired on temporary contracts 6/12 months before becoming full time employees) Only once I've given ~ 3 months notice simply because I didn't think I was a good fit in the company long term and I didn't have anything lined up yet.
• dbrueck 3y ago
  I dunno... be careful with this advice - a long exit ramp can be shortened by the company, or they can make your life miserable during that time if they don't. I once worked at a place where notice was neither expected nor tolerated: the moment you decided to leave, you were done - a quick exit interview with HR, grab any personal items from your desk, and out the door you went. I think the time between informing my boss that I was quitting and permanently driving away was about half an hour. I don't know if I'd argue that their policy was "best", but there is some logic to it - once a person has decided to leave, they are often mentally already out the door anyway, and having them stick around can be a pretty big drain on everyone who is still there, especially with the tendency for some people to need to justify a decision in the eyes of other people. Some people can be really good about a long goodbye, while others will just sort of poison the well the whole time and drag down morale.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• JasserInicide 3y ago
  Guess I must be in the minority because I've only worked jobs where I've left on good terms and have always given a month's notice. Don't know if it's luck, or many of you suck at picking good places to work at
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• fredrikholm 3y ago
  Reading the comments in this thread really feeds into my bias that worker rights in the US are ... n't? I vividly remember a job posting from last year that listed '15 allowed sick days' as a benefit. What does that even mean? In Scandinavia, you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample time to adapt.
  • rootusrootus 3y ago
    > Are things really as bad as they sound online? No, online rhetoric bears only a passing resemblance to reality. Especially on HN, where most folks these days get unlimited vacation and work less than 40 actual hours per week. If you're in a low skill blue collar job you will definitely struggle more than someone in the skilled trades. And if you went deeply in debt because someone convinced you that a four year degree in business would pay for itself, I'm sorry.
  • lannisterstark 3y ago
    >you set a mutual duration of notice for both parties when signing the initial contracts to start working. For IT jobs, the standard is 2-3 months. This gives both parties ample time to adapt. That sounds like a nightmare to me. Sometimes I want to quit immediately. I should be able to rather than stay in a miserable job for 2-3 months.
    • simonjgreen 3y ago
      You can, you just sacrifice the salary you'd otherwise of received
    • SuperCuber 3y ago
      my contract has a month notice, but if I don't work then they don't have to pay me. One month notice is pretty standard in my country, but the wording also gives me an effective way of "no notice" quitting, obviously that's far from the norm here so it burns quite a lot of bridges.
  • aplusbi 3y ago
• crazygringo 3y ago
  > If they do not understand and MUST HAVE YOU NOW, that is a red flag... Most companies, though, don’t have a problem with delaying someone’s start date. This is not true at all in my experience. Very often companies are hiring to expand a team in order to hit a certain deadline, whether it's back-to-school or a big conference or a signed contract or whatever. Or to cover for someone taking maternity, etc. If you can't start on the required date, the offer will frequently go to someone else. This is not a red flag at all, but rather simply a reflection of the business world. Sometimes companies are hiring in a more leisurely way, but that is the exception rather than the rule. So really this is what invalidates the entire article for me. You don't want to quit until you have a new job lined up, but that job very frequently will require you to be starting the Monday following two weeks from accepting (assuming it doesn't involve relocation).
  • ghaff 3y ago
    Generally speaking (small sample size), I've been able to move things out a few more weeks because I've wanted to take a vacation or hit a vesting date. But I agree in general. You can't usually move a start date out months.
• tristor 3y ago
  I think this is very dependent on the company and your role. I've given as much as 2 months notice before, and typically it's closer to 3 weeks than 2 weeks, but I don't think this is always appropriate. In fact, I'd say it's a bad idea more often than not. You should ensure you're not leaving people in a lurch that you may later use in your network to further your own career (I now work with people I last worked with 9 years ago, as an example, which is an eternity in startup-land). But you also shouldn't extend your notice so long it becomes an imposition. You're leaving, so sort things out and leave.
• matt_heimer 3y ago
  The one time I tried to do this my employer would no longer approved vacation requests and refused to pay out my 3 weeks of unused vacation.
  • rootusrootus 3y ago
    > and refused to pay out my 3 weeks of unused vacation That is overtly illegal in most/all of the US. Accrued vacation is like money, it is already yours. It's why so many companies have now switched to unlimited vacation, to get that liability off the books. The icing on the cake being that most people end up taking less vacation, not more, when you remove the limit.
    • fred_is_fred 3y ago
      It is in fact legal in many states. Only 20 require it to be paid out, there are states besides California.
• enginaar 3y ago
  I've given a small e-commerce company 1 year notice. It was the best year of my professional life. I've given 2 weeks notice at a large corporate, they showed me the door next day.
• proxyon 3y ago
  This is such bad advice. My last career move I 2Xed my income. This guy is advising me to lose thousands of dollars so I can be more well liked at my previous company and stick around for longer? Cmon.
• lannisterstark 3y ago
  Will a company give you notice when they fire you? Especially if it's a toxic company? No. You don't reciprocate (as long as you're okay with burning some bridges - which should be fine with above criteria).
  • lmarcos 3y ago
    Even though I know OP lives in US: in Europe you get written down the notice period on your contract. If you decide to quit or if your company decides to fire you, both parties have to honor the notice period (usually between 1-3 months).
    • lannisterstark 3y ago
      I personally am okay with the American model tbf. When I want to quit immediately, I don't want to stay miserable in the same job for 1-3 months. 3 months would be insane for me. As long as it works both ways (I can quit whenever, and you can fire me whenever) - it's fine. Acceptable. Preferred even.
  • philwelch 3y ago
    They'll often pay severance, which is the part of the job the employee materially benefits from.
• doodlebugging 3y ago
  When they notice I'm gone they've had all the notice they're gonna get.
• ExFunctionalNot 3y ago
  I've done this many times, I know for a fact that almost NONE of the prep work, training, file organization, email handoffs, exit/handoff plans, and so on...were ever used except to allow somebody to make excuses on their 'delays' in the first few months after I left. I've also worked in industries for many years, and was told this line about 'leaving on good terms'. Honestly though, you could just about nearly commit murder - your 'name' and 'reputation' don't matter if there money / a deal to be made. And you'll almost never meet ICs again, so why are you bothering to 'leaving on good terms'. Its a fantasy. Grab names and emails on the way out, though, might be handy. And, sometimes, you should just go. Seriously. If you didn't care so much trying to make it all happen and work and 'meet timelines', all that would happen is something would fall behind and the management would finally do their job and give relief to the team you think you're helping by doing so much work to 'offramp' - and perhaps get the people they refused before because you were handling it. Seriously, just dropping your shit where you stand and walking out into the sun one fine day may be the greatest gift you give that 'team' of yours.
  • hallucy 3y ago
    > And you'll almost never meet ICs again, so why are you bothering to 'leaving on good terms'. Its a fantasy. Grab names and emails on the way out, though, might be handy. If you only want to be an IC forever sure who cares? If you want to found a company/lead teams, those people are the network you’ll bring to your next gig. Why fuck them over?
  • ravenstine 3y ago
    What's also funny is this idea that leaving a company ASAP will put you on bad terms with your coworkers whom you might need to rely upon in the future. Outside of very specific circumstances, it's probably not the least bit true. Most of us simply aren't that important, and very few of us are that important that a team will be screwed if we GTFO ASAP. I can count on more than one hand the times that the lead developer or PM were gone for multiple weeks and virtually nothing changed as a result. If coworkers are indeed screwed by your departing without taking a month to do prep work, that's more often a sign that the company is dysfunctional. It's a rare circumstance that someone has unique skills and knowledge that aren't easily replaced. I've had my share of times where I left a company either less than two weeks after or immediately upon quitting, and have never been shunned by coworkers I was on good terms with. It just doesn't happen. Nobody cares. If anything, I've been praised by coworkers I've been reaquainted with at other companies for leaving behind a dysfunctional environment with few f@$#s given.
• twobitshifter 3y ago
  At my last job I gave a month to upper management and two weeks for those that I was supervising. This let management come up with a plan on how to reshuffle roles to fill the gap. I also created a transition document listing my responsibilities, suggested surrogates, and current statuses of projects I was managing and involved in. Why did I do that? Not really to get something out of it in the future, but because I didn’t want to leave a mess for my coworkers.
  • waboremo 3y ago
    A transition document seems reasonable. Anything more would be straight up people pleasing.
• stronglikedan 3y ago
  Would the company give you a lot of notice if they decided to eliminate your role? If so, extend them the same courtesy, if you can. Chances are, most companies wouldn't.
• pnathan 3y ago
  If I believe I have a lot of knowledge to transfer, I'll do a 2 week + X notice. I've done 1m notice, and that was excessive I believe. Otherwise, 2 weeks is standard in the US, and I have no reason to deviate. Nor would I conventionally just walk out that-day, as that leads to a bad odor. If I was waiting for a bonus or cliff, of course I'd wait until after the date before formally giving notice. Because, of course, that would be a problem if the Management decided to terminate me immediately. It's quite contextual, of course, but I prefer to follow local standards.
• sdze 3y ago
  I think this mostly depends on the then current employee market situation.
• honkycat 3y ago
  It is not your job to put yourself out there in order to finally get your company to do the shit they should have been doing all along.
• locusofself 3y ago
  Totally dumb advice. I've tried to be the good guy several times and give my current employer a month of my time to crunch and write docs or whatever. It's usually stressful and doesn't make a huge impact in the end. Better to just offer 2 weeks and move to new role as fast as you can. Your new employer usually wants you to start ASAP, and they are what matters now that you already made the choice to move on.
• micromacrofoot 3y ago
  This is incredibly dependent on your working relationship with your employer, and even if you think you know... sometimes they'll surprise you. If you work at a very large company (hundreds of employees) do not do this. Even with a good working relationship terminating a quitter on the spot can often be security policy. I've quit a job and wasn't even allowed to touch my computer, just walked right out the door (before you give notice, back up your personal files and build your portfolio if they're on there).
• simonjgreen 3y ago
  > 2 weeks notice is the gold standard In the US... In most of the rest of the world 1 to 3 months is normal and expected.
  • fred_is_fred 3y ago
    2 weeks imperial is 2 months metric and that’s why we do it this way in the US.
• icey 3y ago
  As an employer, the flipside of this is that there needs to be some value in having someone there that you know is leaving. If someone has been halfway checked out because they've been interviewing elsewhere, it might not be worth keeping them around for six weeks. They can't start any long-running work, or anything with any dependencies, and many people's work quality drops significantly after putting in their notice. It's a nice idea, for sure; but most jobs can be transitioned in 2 weeks. Anything longer than that and all sense of urgency is lost ("We can transition that in a month", etc). I've quit both ways -- with a long notice period and a short one, and short notice periods are the only times that there's been an actual transition plan.
• paulcole 3y ago
  This is lovely sounding advice until you get burned by it.
• hn_version_0023 3y ago
  It's interesting to me to read through this thread and see the stark differences between the US & Europe. Work culture in the US is pretty awful. It truly is every-man-for-themselves, and I find it deeply saddening.
• LazyMans 3y ago
  I had a great relationship with one of my previous companies, my boss, and team. I gave them about 8 weeks notice. It was certainly appreciated. There was no reason to blindside them, nor were they going to can me early for putting in my notice. I know plenty of people may do this and it not be appreciated, and that just might happen. I think it's good to at least consider if you have a fairly transparent relationship with your boss.
• glonq 3y ago
  I actually regret spending a lot of time documenting the system and fixing critical bugs before leaving one of my jobs. The owner was a jerk and ended up screwing us over on final pay. If I hadn't been so professional, the system would have failed within a few weeks and he would have paid dearly for us to fix it.
• a3n 3y ago
  Or, you can give two weeks notice, and then be fired for quitting.
• seu 3y ago
  >> How Much Notice Can You Give? >> It depends on a lot of things: The list misses what's most important for me: depends on how good am I feeling at the company, or I appreciate its people. Then, I want to make it also easier to transfer knowledge or help them finish things that were dependent on me, etc. Especially on project management.
• methods21 3y ago
  The rule of thumb is expect to be off-boarded the minute you give notice. ie. don't expect that if you give X days of notice that you'll be working those X days.
• sage76 3y ago
  It's weird, in India, most companies have 2 month notice periods. Many have 3.
• iancmceachern 3y ago
  I disagree, often times for myself and many others I know they just walk you out the door that day, or in a few days, they rarely let you leave on your terms. This advice assumes your employer will act honorably, many, err most, dont.
• TomasEkeli 3y ago
  here in Norway the standard is 2 weeks in the first 6 months of employment, after that: 3 months. this goes both ways - for quitting and firing.
• miiiiiike 3y ago
  I gave two or three months notice once to finish up a project. Never again. As soon as you announce that you’re leaving everyone (rightly) treats you as if you shouldn’t be there. Bloomberg’s policy is that your last day is the day you give notice. You know it going in and it works really well. Get people to document as they go so there’s no need for much of a handoff at the end.
• deleted 3y ago
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• darkerside 3y ago
  I'd say, don't tell HR anything, and only tell your manager if you have a great relationship with them, and tell them only that you're _thinking_ about leaving so they have plausible deniability.
• twawaaay 3y ago
  Contrary to some opinions here, I think this is very good advice. I am always giving as much notice as I can. And also try to finish my projects and accommodate my employer/client as much as I can at the end of the project. Regardless how unprofessionally they may act, I resolve to always act professionally myself. I think it is more about the attitude rather than simple cost/benefit calculation. But even if you are just looking at cost/benefit, after two decades of doing this I am finally seeing people noticing and coming back to me. I have my past bosses bringing new work to me, I have my colleagues spreading information about me by word of mouth. I have CEOs of unknown companies reach out to me because they learned about me from somebody who worked with me in the past. Maybe you will not get noticed when you are junior level but when you get a bit more exposed position it starts becoming more and more important.
• penjelly 3y ago
  ive always given 4 weeks, and would work up to the last day, usually documenting some processes/workflow for the next guy to come along. Last time i actually felt compelled to annotate a video showing my workflow.
• kris-nova 3y ago
  This only works if you’re a bro who is chummy with leadership. Honestly this is one of the worst pieces of advice for a marginalized person. If you show any indication of leaving as a marginalized person you are extremely likely to be pegged as “a flight risk” or “unstable” or “frantic” and your job will likely be eliminated before you actually are ready to roll. In the U.S. this likely means losing your healthcare and missing your children’s tuition payments — and even your housing. Your visa if you’re immigrating, etc. The only people who have enough psychological security to do this are the ones who don’t actually depend on their jobs for maintaining their current standard of living. In a perfect world this would be great advice for everyone, however given the political and economic culture of the U.S. this is pretty horrible advice for a marginalized person. Our labor laws don’t support this behavior for a reason — and if “push comes to shove” every corporation in Silicon Valley will air on the side of modern labor laws (or lack there of).
• myarr 3y ago
  Hell no. The startup I was working for fired me on a Friday, no notice, effective immediately. We had a team meeting the previous week about how macro environment was tough but everything was fine. I'm so done bending over backwards to satisfy rich people who will dump me as soon as things get slightly bad.
• lovich 3y ago
  So I’ve been both an employee and a manager in companies that aren’t faang level but break 1 billion in yearly revenue. This is advice from someone privileged enough that it was easier for their manager to ignore them as a problem, rather than deal with them. Off the get go, it’s standard practice to remove all permissions and access to systems from someone who has tendered notice, in the interest of investors, security execs, and anyone who cares about the long term health of the applications being worked on. The investors and security execs are placated by knowing that someone who has indicated they might possibly be disgruntled doesn’t still have access to damage the systems. Any manager who cares about the long term health of their systems doesn’t want someone involved in the day to day architecture and design designs who already knows they won’t have to deal with any problems that arise after a few weeks. This isn’t even to blame the employee in question, they just no longer have the incentives to care about the codebase after their notice. I have also definitely never seen a single person who gave notice and didn’t have access cut off, get to “focus on the fun parts of the job”. In that case they were normally tasked with knowledge transfer the whole time as if it’s an org that can afford the sudden loss of a single person, they also likely don’t have good documentation
• asdfman123 3y ago
  Skimming this article, it seems to say giving a lot of notice is really good for your current manager, but maybe not so good for your next job. So, does it explain why I would want it, and not my manager?
• lazyweb 3y ago
  Can't help but be mildly amused by the article and many of the comments. Here in Germany the standard "Kündigungsfrist" is often three months to the end of the current month at many tech (and other) places. For example, if I wanted to quit my current job (which I'm currently contemplating), I'd have to make sure to do it in april, otherwise I'll be stuck for another month. It does go both ways, a company can't just fire you without reasonable cause, such as gross misconduct. But in most cases people stop trying after handing in their resignation - which I can't blame them for - and as a manager I'd like to release them earlier.
  • selfmodruntime 3y ago
    Also German here. I always wondered what would realistically happen if you just didn't how up anymore?
• yarg 3y ago
  I tried that, the boss thought it was a negotiating tactic.
• hallucy 3y ago
  This comment section is nuts. Obviously don’t jeopardize an offer by trying to push your exit back. Duh. But if you are already quitting, and you’re not immediately starting another job, why not extend your departure date? Best case they send you home day 1 but respect your effective date. Worst case they send you home day 1 and stop paying you immediately. So if you push it out maybe you get a few extra paychecks. And if not, hey, you were already quitting. Who cares?
  • the_only_law 3y ago
    Maybe, I’m quitting for a reason more than just money.
    • hallucy 3y ago
      Sure but everything being discussed presupposes you don’t hate your job.
• deleted 3y ago
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• gricardo99 3y ago
  some of these reasons are quite contrary to my experience: Do only the parts of your job you enjoy the most Being asked to create documents, tutorials and presentations on all aspects of your job, and endless handoff meeting is pretty much the least enjoyable. Take unused vacation time wait, giving notice and then scheduling vacation during your notice period?! I think that would be poorly received and raise a lot of eyebrows
• j7ake 3y ago
  In academia, how long one takes to move is a function of seniority. Months at the junior level, but famous scientists moving can take years.
• onesociety2022 3y ago
  How long of a notice period is considered reasonable probably varies drastically between different countries, different industries, etc. So the advice should largely be just do what is the norm in your environment to avoid burning bridges. I have only worked for FAANGs and other big pre-IPO startups in the west coast for the past 15 years. I have quit like 5 times now and I have always offered only a 2 weeks notice. That is considered normal in these places. I have never burned bridges (I have gone back to work for the same company with the same people even).
• nickm12 3y ago
  I was expecting the comment section to be negative about this, but not nearly unanimously so. I'll be contrary and say that in my last two jobs as a senior software eng, I've given six weeks notice and it's worked out very nicely. I was not just shown the door immediately, I got a chance to get closure on some projects, and have a number of knowledge dump sessions that I hope were helpful to people. I think my collaborators appreciated the longer notice, but of course it's difficult to say. The way I did it was to give my manager six weeks notice, then tell my close collaborators at four weeks, most everyone else I worked with at two weeks and then sent a "this is my last week" email. Still, six weeks seems like an outer edge to me—I can't think of any good reason to give three months notice. The primary downside is that it is not really compatible with taking time off between jobs. Most places are reluctant to give you an offer for a start date more than a month out.