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Russia opens criminal investigation of Meta over death calls on Facebook
- daenz 5y agoThe next Modern Warfare game is going to be very different than it's FPS predecessors.
- YaBomm 5y ago
- aasasd 5y agoWill it be an economic strategy where the player gets to decide to stop buying Russian gas by 2030? You know, do the one thing that Pu and buddies actually care about.
- listless 5y agoUnderrated observation here
- bananabiscuit 5y agoI’m honestly hyped for a new golden age of movies and games where Russians are the bad guys. I feel like Russian bad guys always had more character and really made you want to see the hero outmaneuver them. Arabs just didn’t do it for me the last two decades.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ensan 5y ago“The old-fashioned racism didn’t cut it for me anymore. Excited to be racist towards a new group of people”
- bananabiscuit 5y agoJust pointing out the world we live in.
- krageon 5y agoAny game with any sort of bad group of people can be reduced to an "-ism", but that doesn't make that conversation piece particularly interesting.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- aasasd 5y agoHollywood will again strike back at Russians by mangling their names and putting up jumble of Cyrillic instead of a single actual Russian word. Lshtshfum Ashchf will again outmaneuver the baddies and turn out to be the American Universal Hero: Jason Bond by day, Iron Batman by night.
- revicon 5y agoI think it stems from the fact that fighting terrorists is asymmetrical warfare. The Russians can go just as hard as the US can, though the US has vastly more military resources and the power of NATO behind it.
- gambler 5y agoIf you need to change your platform's rules for literally every major event (elections, Covid, this war) there is something profoundly wrong both with your rules and your platform. There is tremendous value in having actual principles. So many people either forgotten it or never understood that to begin with.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ProAm 5y agoThe problem is Facebook has never had principles beyond market share and ads, we can be honest about that one.
- djbusby 5y agoAnd that's not something the "new generation" came up with.
- ProAm 5y agoWhat do you mean new generation? It was Zuckerberg who said “I want to stress the importance of being young and technical. Young people are just smarter.” [1] [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenkotler/2015/02/14/is-silicon-valley-ageist-or-just-smart/?sh=37d961eded65 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenkotler/2015/02/14/is-sili...
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago> Facebook has never had principles "Never" doesn't feel right to me. I remember being in Sixth Form and then an undergrad while Facebook was in their "web-scale" days: there wasn't (yet) anything untoward being reported (besides the "dumb fucks" quote) - so I like to think that Facebook's principles, then, were more "let's see where this goes" - which isn't much of a principle, I agree - but we were all re-projecting Google's and Apple's story onto Facebook: something along the lines of "they'll make billions of dollars from giving people what they want, how can that possibly be a bad thing?". So I'd summarize Facebook's then-"principles" as believing in their own naïve optimism about the power of connecting people, but we were all naïve with them - so while it's easy to criticize Facebook now, almost a decade after the corruption started, which of us can point to our own Slashdot or Digg.com comments made prior to ~2012 that predicted this?
- tonetheman 5y agoI mean Facebook/Meta did not care that they helped genocide in Myanmar https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-... I cannot imagine they will care about Russia either.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoFailure to act.
- deworms 5y agoI wonder if they allow to add a narrowing discriminator? What if you posted "death to invading Russian soldiers of Jewish descent"? Even in this simple case it's easy to see how this policy is misguided.
- 8note 5y agoI assume the Russian army still forces Russian Jews to the front of the firing line
- tus666 5y agoAre facebook employees literally like targets for death now worldwide? Can Russians just go around killing them with impunity?
- infamouscow 5y agoIt's called war.
- realmod 5y agoAt least, more people will now be exposed to our utter hypocrisy. I used to be a staunch supporter of a free unrestricted internet but the disproportionate power US has is unsustainable - and frankly a threat to sovereign nations. China's firewall seems to have been the right path after all.
- jotm 5y agoOh please. I don't use Facebook, but the only hypocrisy I've seen is Russian news on Youtube. Russia24, for example, actually banned my country (and probably others except Russia) lol, they were getting too many comments from Ukraine, I guess. This new rule allowing people to call for death to invaders is pretty idiotic, though. I think they made it so people would stop getting reported/banned for calling Russians fascists... a lot of that going on right now.
- holoduke 5y agoTo me reading the Dutch headtitle literally saying ' Facebook allows deadcalls' was something I have never read in my entire life in the west. I am shocked by this absurd statement. I am opposing everything related promoting violence.
- xdennis 5y ago> I am opposing everything related promoting violence. You can't fight off an invasion with flowers and nice words.
- rixed 5y agoI think you missed the point. Everybody would be fine if FB users would use FB to coordinate resistance (poor choice IMHO but that's not the point), even if this increased coordination would result in inflicted casualties. This is a very different thing to allow anyone to call for murder of anyone, regardless of the victim wearing a uniform with a specific flag. What next ? Shall "we" decide geneva convention does not hold for russians ?
- trasz 5y agoRussians are targeting civilians. Thus, we should assume they are state-sponsored terrorists, not soldiers.
- 34tlkjlaegrlk 5y ago[flagged]
- voidr 5y agoI guess I should now assume that Facebook endorses everyone else who aren't in this policy, examples: The Taliban, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, North Korea etc.
- VictorPath 5y ago
- csee 5y agoIf it's against Russians who are invading Ukraine. > "We still won't allow credible calls for violence against Russian civilians," a Meta spokesperson said in a statement."
- lalaland1125 5y agoCall for violence is against Russian soldiers invading Ukraine* I think that additional context is critical
- lm28469 5y agoDo they allow call for violence and death threats to these people ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisone... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings Asking for a friend
- lalaland1125 5y agoDidn't Russia already ban Facebook? What's the point of this legal game?
- denistaran 5y agoYes, they banned Facebook, but some services like WhatsApp are still working. Now they want to ban every service provided by Meta.
- fmakunbound 5y agoYou don’t have to be on Facebook to live in a world affected by it unfortunately
- danielktdoranie 5y agoCorrect. Ask any kid bullied by classmates in private groups. FWIW one of the best things I ever did was delete my Facebook account.
- ramesh31 5y agoThis is just a part of Russia's overall playbook. Sow doubt, maintain deniability, gaslight, deflect, and project. It's honestly fascinating to see an entire country treat the global community like an abused spouse.
- kurthr 5y agoIt's informative to see that Reuters carries their water, because it fits a particular narrative they know brings $/click... I suppose you could look at the author, but by clicking the link you've done their bidding.
- gambler 5y ago>Sow doubt, maintain deniability, gaslight, deflect, and project. "Russian restaurant owners in the U.S. say they face harassment over Ukraine war" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-restaurants-putin-pushkin-samovar/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-restaurants-puti... "Russian businesses in U.S. face threats, vandalism over invasion" https://www.axios.com/russian-businesses-us-vandalism-threats-bdde1c92-d661-48d5-9157-c540964b00fb.html https://www.axios.com/russian-businesses-us-vandalism-threat... Social media plays a role here.
- sidibe 5y agoPersecution complex is in high gear in Russian media, they obviously aren't going to give the full context of Facebook's position. But if you are western in this site or Russian curious enough to be here, let's drop the idea that it's all Russophobia and Westerners hating all Russians. No one here believes you and it's all seemed pretty clear that everything is happening strictly in response to what is happening in Ukraine Now we can debate about whether these policies are bad and will backfire in Russia where everything is easily sold as being anti-Russian people, but I'm done reading all the woe is me comments from people who absolutely know better about how it's a persecution of Russians based on hate. I do think these policies are interpreted as anti-Russian racism internally. Looking at vc.ru (Russian HN) they are scooping up the racism angle at face value, they don't like Putin but enemies 1 and 2 right now are Ukraine and the West. Posts blaming Russia for anything are heavily down voted and responded to with Putin's talking points even though they dislike the man. Don't know if the West should lay off with some of the sanctions and boycotts though, opinion might be the same without them
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> let's drop the idea that it's all Russophobia and Westerners hating all Russians I’ve transformed from a Putin critic / Russia advocate to a full-blown Russia hawk in the last *checks calendar* two weeks. But even I can see some people conflating the Russian state with the Russian people. This isn’t an argument against debilitating sanctions. They should be ratcheted up to energy, and start looking at Chinese complicity, too. But I’ve seen (albeit limited) calls for boycotting Russian restaurants in America, which is pretty close to anti-Russian sentiment. (Of course, that sentiment is reactionary. It never existed prior to the invasion. I’m not sure its backers could name their local Russian, or for that matter Ukrainian, restaurant.)
- future-garten 5y agoOk, let's take those russian it-people which have migrated in recent two weeks to the nearby countries (which just happen to be in this list made by facebook/meta). Yep, now they are in these very countries. And yep in these countries Meta has allowed hate-posting. Wouldn't it result in some discomfort, unease, prejudice? Quick-note: indeed to the best of my knowledge all people involved in outsourcing are migrating to the countries where hate-posting has been allowed Of course, everyone can draw a line, no doubt there, no troubles, no xenophobia expected...
- danielktdoranie 5y agoWith all this banning of western media, social media and pornography websites looks like Russian citizens may end up being the most well adjusted and happy people on the planet.
- jdrc 5y agoVk is full of pirated porn movies, it s the one thing they won't miss
- kspacewalk2 5y agoYeah, they totally look like the most psychologically balanced and friendly people around, gleefully cheering on a fascist war of aggression that is already costing their own country thousands coming home in body bags and a virtual disconnection from the world economy. But yeah, maybe that was all Pornhub and Instagram's fault.
- slig 5y agoNo Coca-Cola and McDonalds either.
- justsomehnguy 5y agoAm I right to assume what Meta would adhere to the same principles in any other similar case? Eg (countries and nationalities are work of fiction and are the products of the author's imagination): $string = 'Two weeks into $country1's war in $country2, a Meta spokesperson said on Thursday the company had temporarily eased its rules for political speech, allowing posts such as "death to the $nationality invaders," although it would not allow calls for violence against $nationality civilians' $country1 = 'Russia', 'US, 'Israel', 'UAE' $country2 = 'Ukraine', 'Iraq', 'Palestine', 'Yemen' $nationality = 'Russian', 'American', 'Israeli', 'Saudi' foreach ($i in 0..3) {...} In my own personal opinion a company what decides what some people, chosen by some arbitrary attributes, are more equal than others can never claim to have a better moral principles than some $country Ministry of Truth.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> would adhere to the same principles in any other similar case? Consistency isn’t the paramount principle in a moral system. If you have a compulsion for kicking babies, controlling that impulse most of the time is better than going hog wild on a kindergarten because you lost control once. Facebook is an awful company. But it’s doing the right thing here. That action commendable, even if it’s doer is usually not.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago'Consistency isn’t the paramount principle in a moral system.' I think the argument is different- if your moral system contradicts itself logically, it's likely it's hypocritical or self-serving
- aiProgMach 5y agoI "admire" how the western world now is all in in the war against Russia, from tech companies to media to the random person on the Internet and between. You can't find many different opinions on the matter, all the focus against the "crazy Putin" and Russia. I wish our "Elites" learned from their western masters how to take a firm stand for your people war and how those masters will throw the "liberal values" in the nearest bin when it contradicts their interests.
- Daniel_sk 5y agoGo and ask some countries that were invaded by Russia in the 20th century. They came to help us in the same special operation to Slovakia since 1968 and they finally left in 1989.
- aiProgMach 5y agoNot sure I got your point but Ok. Anyway, assuming that you're either with Russia or with "us" proves my point actually.
- jotm 5y agoIt proves that Russia doesn't have many allies. Or any allies.
- zip1234 5y agoAt certain times, not taking a side is actually taking a side. Elie Weisel: "And then I explain to him how naïve we were, that the world did know and remained silent. And that is why I swore never to be silent whenever wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must – at that moment – become the center of the universe."
- koreanguy 5y ago
- blobbers 5y agoWhy does anyone actually care about Russia investigating Facebook? Is it surprising? They've done this with every technology that they can't control. Russia is trying to slander anyone who is accusing them of being the bad guy. Vladimir Putin is very clearly the bad guy in this story. Russia is waging an immoral war. A free sovereign nation making attempts to improve the lives of the citizens within its own borders should not be attacked.
- sirmike_ 5y agoOh is that so? It will be interesting to see if I end up in FB jail over this one. The kinder way to say this is "May the people of Russia remove the blots of tyranny staining their flag." Also the classic one person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist.
- sAbakumoff 5y agoSo, Russian authorities are going to label Meta an “extremist organization” and if one participates in such organization, f.e. has an account on Facebook, then it's a crime. Fcking brilliant.
- twelve40 5y agothis is false https://www.kp.ru/daily/27375.5/4557218/ https://www.kp.ru/daily/27375.5/4557218/
- asteroidbelt 5y agoIt is more complicated. It is not exactly rule of law in Russia. If you are accused of overthrowing the government, having a page on Facebook, which is extremist organization, might be considered aggravating factor.
- sAbakumoff 5y agoThat moment when one refers to fcking KP to prove that something is false. LMAO I hope that you are kidding. Otherwise, you are a joke.
- twelve40 5y agoYou are claiming as a fact that regular Facebook users will be criminally prosecuted. What is _your_ source? Outside of pointless cussing and insults.
- sAbakumoff 5y agoMy source is the definition of an extremist organization. If you don't get that, you are ignorant. And based on what you cite KP(LMAO) you aren't just ignorant, you are delusional.
- twelve40 5y agoright, of course no source, just more insults :shrug: whatever
- msie 5y ago"The committee reports directly to President Vladimir Putin." Of course. It's so ridiculous at this point.
- exdsq 5y agoAnd, from what I’ve admittedly only briefly read, they’d be right to do so. The only reason this should be acceptable is if Ukrainians are sharing intel on where Russian troops are in order to avoid them (that might break some T&Cs so I can imagine those being lifted temporarily). But not this.
- djohnston 5y agoRussia also legalized piracy against unfriendly countries, surely this investigation will lead to substantive outcomes!
- throwaway05112 5y ago
- Mountain_Skies 5y agoTech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. It's just a matter of time. When it was little nudges in color revolutions in relatively weak countries, there was not much to worry about. Now? They're playing with fire and the tech folks doesn't seem they have a clue that this is the case. They feel very secure launching attacks against nation-states that have histories of creating very bad luck for unprotected outsiders who involve themselves in a conflict.
- trhway 5y ago>Tech companies are making themselves active participants in conflicts involving powerful countries. sometimes there are situations when one can't be neutral. A genocidal war like the one Russia is waging in Ukraine is such a situation. >Sooner or later, one of those countries is going to reach out and strike back in the physical world. Like Saudis did. So, it is a personal choice of everybody - whether to live by Russian/Saudi rules even when you're in US. Ukraine people chose to not live by Russian rules and are being genocided for that.
- HonestOp001 5y agoGenocidal war is not what is occurring. It is a land war where Putin wants to gain access to and control significant resources and a warm body of water in the southeast.
- colinmhayes 5y agoI would agree that this isn't genocide, but the russian forces are playing extremely loose with civilian casualties. It's clear that Putin is trying to destroy Ukrainian culture/independent spirit which could be considered a form of genocide I guess.
- trhway 5y ago>the russian forces are playing extremely loose with civilian casualties. one of the main reason for the indiscriminate shelling and bombing of the cities that Russia conducts is displacement of Ukrainians into the West Ukraine and farther, i.e. ethnical cleansing. The much smaller population left will as a a result have a [scared] pro-Russian majority and will "democratically" vote for the government of Ukraine (or whatever part of Ukraine Russia wants to hold, and they would prefer it to include Kiev as that would make it "Ukraine") doing what Russia wants.
- jjtheblunt 5y agoI wonder if, like I, people see the word "Russia" and think it means two distinct things: the mobsters and their network of organized embezzling and crime and terror to protect themselves who currently control the Kremlin, and the millions of innocent people along for the ride. Seems Russia has this tail recursive shitty luck of essentially mobsters raping the country for well over a century.
- trasz 5y agoVast majority of those millions fully support Putin.
- jjtheblunt 5y agoi think it was recently measured at roughly 2/3, and a breakdown of the measurement showed it was people without internet news access predominately. it's an interesting situation for sure.
- meatsauce 5y agoOrganized embezzling Crime Corruption These words summarize the Ukraine in the same manner.
- aasasd 5y agoFor the context, ’listing as an extremist organisation’ is just a euphemism for forbidding a government-opposing group of people and harassing them individually with prosecution, while ‘opening a criminal case’ means than the gov found another company who's doing too much of the opposition thing. Both are nothing new here. (Of course, FB's specific action the FB-Kremlin exchange here are rather nonsensical and even comical, compared to the usual proceedings.)
- Giorgi 5y agoRussia is a bunch of clowns at this point. Complete circus country.
- ironcurtain 5y agoInteresting development. As I’m heading to the local 5 minute hate meeting, I want to get current in “Who,Whom” hierarchy. Can anyone help me figure it out? Is it only applying to Russians these days or there are other exceptions? Can all Arabs post “Death to Israel” or only those within 100 miles of Israel borders? Is reverse allowed? Can Yemeni call for death of Saudi Royals or is it still frowned upon? The new rules also allowed praise of Nazi-lite Azov battalions “in the context of defense of Ukraine”. Does it mean that going forward Vaffen-SS can be praised “in context of defense” of 3rd Reich from British and US troops in 1945? So confused.
- muzika 5y agoBy this action, Facebook effectively “called” its users to call for violence. Very bad idea.
- Wowfunhappy 5y agoThere's really no reason for Facebook to make this rule specific to Ukraine. If your country has been invaded by a foreign army which is violently attacking civilians with tanks and bombs, it's perfectly reasonable to cheer for the deaths of the invading soldiers. This is basically analogous to the concept of self-defense. Actually—would it be against Facebook's rules to post about how you fought off someone who tried to break into your house to kill you?
- hiyer 5y agoI wonder if Facebook would be equally lenient to, say, Palestinians calling for violence against Israeli soldiers; or Houthis calling for violence against Saudi Arabian ones.
- chimpansteve 5y agoOr indeed the New York Post posting a factually correct article about a laptop. Incidentally, as someone from the UK who was unfortunate enough to have him as my MP for years, I'll also point out that Nick Clegg is one of the most craven, cowardly, pathetic pieces of corporate slime in existence. Almost antipathetically opposed to the concept of "principles" because they get in the way of his grubbing for cash from any source imaginable
- lifeplusplus 5y agoUSA banned Huawei so not really different