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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

• trhway 5y ago
  • Daishiman 5y ago
    Literally everything that you say is wrong. Vaccines work, they work extremely well. You are literally making it up. Restrictions have come and gone across the world as case numbers and hospital capacity go up and down. Most European countries have plans to drop mandates or are in the process as case numbers go down. This logic is repeating pretty much everywhere. Your post is a textbook example of a slippery slope fallacy. I just went to a night club yesterday for the first time in two years - completely allowed by my government, in line with lowering case numbers, in a country with far less democratic tradition than Canada. Stop the paranoia and understand the nobody's out to get you.
    • trhway 5y ago
      >Vaccines work, they work extremely well. You are literally making it up. If it so then why there have been so many breakthrough infections ? (30-40% of the new infections for delta at the 60-70% vaccination rate and 80% for omicron at 80% vaccination rate, and that is as reported which is given lighter symptoms means severe undercounting) While the vaccines failure to control the infectious spread has been obvious from the publicly available numbers at least since the Spring of 2021, that is bona-fide scientific result which naturally took several months ( it is about delta, and with omicron situation is significantly worse) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y " A person who was fully vaccinated and then had a ‘breakthrough’ Delta infection was almost twice as likely to pass on the virus as someone who was infected with Alpha." "Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus."
      • Daishiman 5y ago
        Vaccines cut down the hospitalization and death rate 20 to 60-fold. They reduce transmission by a substantial amount. That means they work. Why are you nitpicking and purposely ignoring the titanic scientific achievement of developing cheap vaccines, deployed by the billions in the span of a year, that literally avoided tens of millions of deaths? It's clear you're not here to make good-faith arguments.
        • trhway 5y ago
          >Vaccines cut down the hospitalization and death rate 20 to 60-fold. Yes, for very specific groups of people. For the majority though it did practically nothing which makes forced vaccination of that majority immoral and illegal. >They reduce transmission by a substantial amount. No. As the numbers and the link I provided show. >literally avoided tens of millions of deaths? Forced vaccination of the very low risk majority has nothing to do with it. Even more - if those wasted vaccine doses were instead used to vaccinate high-risk people in poor countries then even more lives would have been saved.
          • Daishiman 5y ago
            > Yes, for very specific groups of people. For the majority though it did practically nothing which makes forced vaccination of that majority immoral and illegal. You're discounting the effects of long-covid. You discount the health burden of millions of people catching this disease at the same time. You discount the long-term effects and the fact that a substantial amount of the healthy population has symptoms 3 and 6 months after catching the disease. You discount that perfectly healthy young people have died. You discount the effects on the workforce and the rates of permanently disabled. You discount the hospital burden and the fact that saturated hospitales mean triaging and people dying of easily treatable causes. > Forced vaccination of the very low risk majority has nothing to do with it. You don't have a right to not be vaccinated to participate in society. Your profound ignorance on this as if the standard vaccination schedule for children doesn't have dozens of vaccines necessary to reach the modern standards of quality of life means you have nothing to add to this. Your arguments are just one ridiculous, ignorance-ridden point after another. It's a good thing that the people making most of these decisions, unlike you, have century-years of experience on these topics and have assessed the health burden on the population. And most of us consider that a disease that's the 3rd to 4th highest cause of death, even at this point in the pandemic, is worth treating with extreme measures, lest we lose half a decade of life expectancy, not even getting into the effects for the survivors.
• throwaway879080 5y ago
• egberts1 5y ago
  “everyone has a right to assemble” - PM Trudeau, May 21, 2021 “get those hospital workers, get those anti-Vaxxers, get those oil consumers, get those truckers, get those protesters; crush ‘em all!” - Shorter Trudeau, today. https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/1394099973709565954 https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/1394099973709565954
  • malermeister 5y ago
    Assembling != Putting Heavy Machinery on the Roads.
    • salawat 5y ago
      ...actually, that is exactly what Assembling is. Gathering in one place in an organized manner. Bonus points because said heavy machinery was assembled into a complex device whose purpose was "area denial". So technically both senses are satisfied.
      • malermeister 5y ago
        Everyone has a right to assemble, not every piece of heavy machinery. Pedantic wordplay aside, the right of assembly is limited to humans, not arbitrary objects.
• jcadam 5y ago
  An obvious response to this, that doesn't involve blocking any roads, is for truckers to simply go on strike. Imagine if even a quarter of Canadian truckers just decided to sit at home and not move anything.
  • Wiseacre 5y ago
    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-02/no-drivers-needed-union-pacific-to-use-robot-trucks-from-san-diegos-tusimple-to-haul-freight https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-02-...
    • jcadam 5y ago
      Stores would start running out of product in days/weeks. Replacing a significant portion of the fleet with autonomous trucks will take far longer.
    • dmw_ng 5y ago
      For a country the size of Canada, they'd be invoking emergency powers just to cope with the number of excess roadside fatalities
  • ecf 5y ago
    Driving is something teenagers are expected to handle. Hell, we trust teenagers behind the wheel of a one ton killing machine before we let them purchase cigarettes or consume alcohol. Something tells me finding replacements wouldn’t be hard to do.
    • BenjiWiebe 5y ago
      Driving trucks is more difficult. For instance trucks are mostly (all?) unsynchronized manual transmissions. They take skill and experience to operate. It's also more difficult safely braking/turning/accelerating a very heavy load like a loaded trailer as opposed to a passenger vehicle. Some local trucking businesses in my area are training people to drive since there's a shortage of drivers. It takes a while to get someone to the point where they can get their commercial driver's license.
• zg45y456 5y ago
• zg45y456 5y ago
• sleepingadmin 5y ago
  This legislation has never been invoked before. It's very difficult to invoke. Virtually any other law must be used first. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/page-1.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/e-4.5/page-1.html >AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national emergency; The right to peacefully protest still stands even with the invocation of this act. The Ottawa police have been incapable of ending this protest because it has been peaceful. Nobody has even raided/trespassed in the capital buildings like the January 6th 'insurrection' in the usa. If the protesters were anything but peaceful, the Ottawa police would easily be able to arrest them. Logically concluding that this protest has been peaceful. You can confirm this to be true simply by watching the myriad of livestreams online. >3 For the purposes of this Act, a national emergency is an urgent and critical situation of a temporary nature that >(a) seriously endangers the lives, health or safety of Canadians and is of such proportions or nature as to exceed the capacity or authority of a province to deal with it, or >(b) seriously threatens the ability of the Government of Canada to preserve the sovereignty, security and territorial integrity of Canada >and that cannot be effectively dealt with under any other law of Canada. There are an awful lot of 'any other law of Canada' that could be used before this act. Some peaceful protests are not going to justify using this act. In fact not even possible to use this act against peaceful protesters. Trudeau is moving against a foe that isn't described by this protest. The accusation or allegation by Trudeau is that the USA has a military occupation over Canada. The funding is being organized in the USA. This to me doesn't ring true. If the USA wanted Canada, a squadron of F22 could annihilate our armed forces in a day. B2 bombers could lay waste to everything else. Canada could do nothing, none of our allies would come to save us. Our allies could never protect us against the USA. Nuclear bombs wouldn't be needed. Plus, we have an extensive and fantastic alliance with the USA. Why would Biden who is worried about Russia, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan invade Canada? It makes no sense. The alternative is that Trudeau has deployed this against his political opponents who are peacefully protesting. What do you think?
• squarefoot 5y ago
  I'm usually all in favor of workers protesting; not this time however. During war time food and resources are rationed; does people complain against the government? Nope. So why during a pandemic that in just two years killed 5 fucking millions people -and counting- should they protest against perfectly sound measures? Am I missing something, or "get vaccinated" doesn't even sound close to "one loaf of bread per day per family"?
  • naasking 5y ago
    The necessity for a lot of these restrictions were because of waste and underfunding of the healthcare system for decades. The significance of these protests will now change the calculus for future budgets and what sort of restrictions the public will accept in the future.
    • xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
      Ironic that the same people protesting those restrictions were by and large the same people who voted for leaders on platforms of reducing budgets by slashing healthcare.
  • gruez 5y ago
    Enemy within vs enemy outside. If it was found that china was behind covid all along, you can bet that all hesitation would evaporate.
  • rubatuga 5y ago
    “Perfectly sound” crumbles on further inspection. First the protest is time sensitive. Consider all the relaxations that are happening with restrictions not only in Canada but globally. Canada has some of the most strict Covid laws in the world. Next the omicron virus is less dangerous, 90% of Canadians are vaccinated, and we have treatments for Covid patients in hospital. Your reasoning implies we should still be getting one loaf of bread today even though the war has ended.
    • Nursie 5y ago
• Goety 5y ago
  Lets see who profits from this
• foolinaround 5y ago
  I guess there is going to be a run on Canadian banks... and who would trust their money in banks where it could be frozen without prior cause? It is not clear to me how deep the support for this cause is among Canadians, but if this group chooses to act by pulling their money out, this would cause even more headaches for Trudeau and his ilk.
• slackfan 5y ago
  Like father, like son.
• exabrial 5y ago
  So basically, Trudeau admits in fact he is everything a bunch of blue collar truckers say he is.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• ipaddr 5y ago
  The question few are asking is does this meet the standard of a threat to the sovereignty of the state of Canada and I don't believe it does.
• busymom0 5y ago
  > Canada is now regulating crowdfunding platforms and crypto currency under the Terrorist Financing Act. https://twitter.com/TrueNorthCentre/status/1493347561876471809 https://twitter.com/TrueNorthCentre/status/14933475618764718... > As of today, financial institutions with be “authorized or directed” to “prohibit the use of property” or freeze accounts - personal or corporate- if the institution suspects that the account holder is financing illegal blockades. https://twitter.com/TheMarieOakes/status/1493344048932966405 https://twitter.com/TheMarieOakes/status/1493344048932966405 I am absolutely ashamed of what my Government is doing right now. Our PM was singing a different tune when the farmers in my home country were protesting in India. Or the Hong Kong protests. Or the pipeline protests in Canada.
  • karpierz 5y ago
    Under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act. Which specific regulatory laws would you expect them to be handled under?
    • toolz 5y ago
      Protesting is only a crime in authoritarian states. Canadians have the right to assembly and expression explicitly stated in the charter of rights.
      • karpierz 5y ago
        Correct, but the protestors aren't being charged with protesting.
      • zozbot234 5y ago
        There's no such thing as a "right" to use trucks to set up an illegal blockade. The trucker convoys are not protesting to fairly and legitimately raise awareness about their grievances; they're trying to get the upper hand by illegal means because much of public opinion clearly opposes their stance already. It's a simple matter, really. A response is quite appropriate.
• ipaddr 5y ago
  The changing image of Canada.
  • voisin 5y ago
    Paid for and largely organized by members of the far right in the US.
    • ipaddr 5y ago
      I was referring to the use of the emergency act for the first time ever on protesters which is a decision by Trudeau. This is in conflict with the message he gave to Indian farmers. Canada has lost a virtue leg to stand on.
• tomohawk 5y ago
  He must think these mandates are like violence. When it doesn't work, you have to double down and do more. You can't possibly take a step back and have a dialog.
  • Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    He's a spoiled brat that has never been told 'no' in his life in any meaningful way. Now he's an adult in a position of power, learning far too late what it means to compromise, have a dialog, or even bother understanding what others want. It's something he should have learned in his tween years instead of while leading a large industrialized country.
    • pomdapi 5y ago
      Spot on. Then again, when he was a student, it didn't help even later in that regard having family give a huge shush payout to some underage girl's parent's for an undisclosed bad act.
  • busymom0 5y ago
    He, triple vaxxed, tested positive for COVID but his mandates allow him to air travel. But I am not allowed even though I can prove via a PCR test that I am uninfected. Tests aren't recognized in Canada. Nor is natural immunity recognized. It's asinine.
• 1024core 5y ago
  It is ironical that Trudeau is whining about these "protests" now, when they're at home. He was singing a different tune when farmers in India were doing similar things: https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concerning-canadas-justin-trudeau-backs-farmers-protests-7075085/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concern...
  • alphabettsy 5y ago
    Edit: I’ll avoid commenting on other nations events that I don’t understand.
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • nonamechicken 5y ago
      > You don’t believe there’s a distinction to be made for how the protesters were being treated and what prompted the remarks? From https://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/news-why-did-justin-trudeau-support-farmers-agitation-in-india-2859625 https://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/news-why-did-justin-trudea... "Trudeau expressed concern about the Indian security forces' attitude toward these peasant protesters and said that his government has always been a supporter of peaceful protests." "Sikh vote bank politics matters in Canada. Sikh voters matter to Trudeau's Liberal Party, Conservative Party, and Jagmeet Singh's New Democratic Party. The Sikh population here is close to five lakhs. Sikh separatism or Khalistan has been an essential issue in the relations between India and Canada." From https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/02/20/why-india-is-being-really-rude-to-justin-trudeau/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/... "Sikh, numbering less than half a million, form the largest ethnic group among Indian-origin Canadians. All four of Trudeau’s Indian-origin ministers are Sikh, and Trudeau has publicly boasted how he has more Sikh ministers than Modi. Amarinder Singh, chief minister of the Sikh-dominated state of Punjab and himself a Sikh, has publicly accused Trudeau’s ministers of having sympathies with Canadian Sikh extremists who would like to see Indian Punjab separated from India into the state of Khalistan. Last year, Singh had refused to meet Trudeau’s defense minister, Harjit Singh Sajjan. All four Sikh ministers have recently visited India, and New Delhi would have liked it if Trudeau didn’t bring them along again. But for Trudeau, this trip is all about the Sikh vote in Canada." "Canada’s position is that it cannot curtail the right to freedom of speech and expression of its Sikh citizens, but New Delhi wants Trudeau to publicly distance himself from Sikh separatists. " > It was reported that they were being attacked and beaten in India. The videos and news reports I saw show protestors being violent. They were using tractors to attempt to run over cops, beating cops with batons, walking around with swords etc. Some examples: Cops jump off wall to escape protestors at Red Fort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1qFKUtfvMc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1qFKUtfvMc Protestors using tractors against cops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7so5TwIMyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7so5TwIMyM Protestor attacking cop with sword: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzMEzzb-94&t=53s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEzMEzzb-94&t=53s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9feGjEr95nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9feGjEr95nM If anyone has any videos of the protestors being attacked which would prompt leaders of other nations to condemn, please share. I am from South India, and police using batons/water canons/tear gas is a standard practice even for small protests.
• TeeMassive 5y ago
  The people who thinks this will degenerate to violence will be disappointed. The truckers are normal people with mouths to feed and a retirement plan to save, not a militia made of radicals, as we saw at the bridge. What will happen however is that the problem just going to be moved elsewhere. Trucks might begin to slow down, citizens might continue to assemble, in Ottawa or elsewhere. How protesters are going to find other ways to protest will be very interesting to watch and how the government will respond will be terrifying.
  • whdm2000 5y ago
    Yes, it will show that you can’t really lead your people in this way. They are the people who run the society, and the government depends on the people, not the other way around.
  • vorpalhex 5y ago
    I recommend reading up on Shay's rebellion from US history: https://www.history.com/topics/early-us/shays-rebellion https://www.history.com/topics/early-us/shays-rebellion The truckers assert their livelihoods are already heavily impacted. This crowd appears to be much larger than simply anti-vaxxers.
    • karpierz 5y ago
      Shay's rebellion consisted of veterans, still armed with their weapons from the rebellion they'd fought a few years ago, at a time where the US government didn't have a standing army. I don't think those lessons quite transfer over here.
      • Mountain_Skies 5y ago
        On the other hand, the protestors are armed with thousands of cameras. Any violent act by the authorities will be quickly spread worldwide. They have to use kid gloves here or will quickly amplify the opposition to themselves. That the truckers won't get violent makes it even worse if the police do.
      • 5y ago
• vorpalhex 5y ago
  > The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Trudeau. This definitely looks like an authoritarian response to a loss of mandate. The protestors will dig in more, the response will become harsher, and the government will be in deeper trouble.
  • itslennysfault 5y ago
    Yeeeeeah, I don't know about that. Anyone with their truck there risks forfeiting the asset that was used in commission of a crime. AKA their livelihood and likely most expensive asset. There is certainly not a bottomless pit of people wishing to do that.
    • tonfreed 5y ago
      Sounds a little silly to confiscate the assets of the people bringing the food to your table. That and the towies in the area are refusing to move any of the trucks. Trudeau just looks weak at this point, and for a prime minister that got in because of his good looks and his dad's popularity it's not a good omen.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      • skyde 5y ago
        you know those trucker do not represent all trucker. The one protesting probably make less than 5% of all trucker.
      • jsjsbdkj 5y ago
        Surprisingly, I still have food on my table even though none of these people have worked in 3 weeks. If you're going to have a strike, you need to actually have an impact. Heavy equipment tow operators have recieved threats of violence, which is why at least some of them have not helped.
• wgljlk 5y ago
• ameminator 5y ago
  Shameful that a peaceful protest is met with this response. How can a person protest meaningfully if any peaceful protest can be called illegal? I do understand that the truckers were disturbing the peace of ordinary people - I think this should be discouraged. However there must be a way to peacefully assemble without the government's approval. I don't see how we can have meaningful civil discourse if you need permission to protest at all.
  • barbazoo 5y ago
    I think it stops being a peaceful protest if you erect structure and continually inconvenience residents by blasting your horns 24/7. Go on the street, show what you protest against, what you want. But don't permanently take over a part of the city, let alone start swearing in your own peace officers [0]. [0] https://youtu.be/0DvVtDHEizk?t=51 https://youtu.be/0DvVtDHEizk?t=51
    • ameminator 5y ago
      I'm going to be honest, that seems remarkably peaceful, even when compared to the BLM protests from 2 years ago or especially the FLQ crisis of Pierre Trudeau. I don't think the truckers should be going into residential neighborhoods and making noise at all hours - but it's hard to argue that it's violent.
      • atdt 5y ago
        It's not at all hard to argue. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not and have not been the parent of a small child. The psychological suffering the noise is causing is acute.
      • jsjsbdkj 5y ago
        BLM protests in Ottawa were extremely peaceful, and met with harsh police retaliation. Protestors blocked _one_ intersection for one day, and they were all rounded up and arrested by dozens of police officers in the middle of the night.
• wgljlk 5y ago
• whdm2000 5y ago
  There seems to be a trend in our newly tyrannical governments of using war and terrorism acts on their own citizens. It feels strange being subject tyranny for the first time in my life here in Australia. It is the first time in my life I have felt a government just threaten and bully people to get whatever it wants. There is no going back from this, whoever may win.
  • Apocryphon 5y ago
    Didn't the Howard government enact the Anti-Terrorism Act 2005, which was your lot's equivalent to the PATRIOT Act? And other acts since then [0]. You've been subjected to tyranny all this time, you just weren't paying attention. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/07/how-australia-just-became-a-national-security-state/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/0... https://theconversation.com/before-9-11-australia-had-no-counter-terrorism-laws-now-we-have-92-but-are-we-safer-166273 https://theconversation.com/before-9-11-australia-had-no-cou...
    • DoItToMe81 5y ago
      Yeah. The sedition portions of the laws he passed have been toned down somewhat, but in exchange, we have clauses with many terror-related offences, even down to possessing banned literature, which eschew due process and force the defendant to prove their own innocence and that they had no intention to commit a crime, rather than the courts and police prove that the items are linked to intent to commit terrorism.
      • Apocryphon 5y ago
        Really goes to show that observations of "newly tyrannical governments" are made by those who have had the good fortune to not be of demographics on the receiving end of these draconian laws. Decades of complacency and the weed of crime bitter fruit. Chickens come home to roost.
• 650 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_railway_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Canadian_pipeline_and_rai... "Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said politicians should not be telling the police how to deal with protesters and that resolution should come through dialogue" Millions of dollars in damage by these protestors (railway above). Protests for me, but not for thee. Vaguely remember stuff like: "Your right to freedom of speech stops where it harms others" (hate speech) "Your right to bodily autonomy stops where you can harm others" (vax mandates) "Your right to protest stops where ... ?" These are all nuanced, sadly the Canadian government can override its Bill of Rights whenever they please under temporary 3 year Emergency Measures.
  • voisin 5y ago
    > sadly the Canadian government can override its Bill of Rights whenever they please under temporary 3 year Emergency Measures. …and then face elections with this track record, hence why this is the first time this bill has been invoked in 50 years.
    • mmastrac 5y ago
      Yes. It's a risk to the ruling party to enact these measures and the next election will determine whether it was the right call or not. Regardless of the outcome of this situation, the current few weeks _will_ be taught in Canadian schools for the next decades.
  • digianarchist 5y ago
    We don’t have a constitution. We have a loophole ridden document that allows each Premier in the nation to disregard Charter Rights via the Notwithstanding Clause. It’s time for Canada to rewrite the Constitution and to enshrine some inalienable rights and freedoms.
    • rpeden 5y ago
      Good luck with the rewrite - Meech Lake and Charlottetown showed that getting the consensus needed for constitutional amendment won't be easy. You might also find that Canadians as a whole want a balance between public order and individual freedom that tilts more toward the public order end of the spectrum than you'd like.
• version_five 5y ago
  It seems like (maybe it's a polarization thing) its becoming more common for all sides to want to go straight to the (thankfully only metaphorical) nuclear option to try and end situations. Everything is framed as an emergency or a human right or some other category that means its supposed to be dealt with in the harshest possible terms and admit no discussion. I don't just mean by government or a particular side, it's the kind of rhetoric used in every argument now.
  • JohnBooty 5y ago
    It seems like (maybe it's a polarization thing) its becoming more common for all sides to want to go straight to the (thankfully only metaphorical) nuclear option to try and end situations. It may "seem like" that to you but that's factually incorrect, at least in this case. This blockade has been ongoing for weeks. Maybe you only just heard about today, but they certainly didn't go "straight to the nuclear option." Also, what do you mean by "nuclear option" anyway? To me, that would be the most extreme possible response. Nobody is saying the current situation is great, but there is clearly a lot of room left for escalation. (May it never come to that) Calling the current state of affairs "the nuclear option" is disingenuous at best.
    • nyokodo 5y ago
      > Calling the current state of affairs "the nuclear option" is disingenuous at best. Could be, but to extend the metaphor giving yourself the political option to call in the military is certainly taking the safety off the big red button.
  • edmcnulty101 5y ago
    This is a really fascinating point and true. Everything is "unprecedented" and the "biggest threat to society" and other sensational labels. I think it may come from the media who tend to sensationalize often?
• makomk 5y ago
  Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.
  • Jackim 5y ago
    That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.
    • colechristensen 5y ago
      The adjective critical though has been used very broadly during the pandemic. It's clear that it needs a very specific definition or such language could be used to make any protest illegal because it blocked access to a pizza place, etc.
      • ajross 5y ago
        > The adjective critical though has been used very broadly Access to most of Ottawa was been cut off, including one of the biggest border crossings in Canada, not a "pizza place". Deploying hyperbole like this isn't helping your case. Surely if the Ambassador Bridge doesn't qualify as critical infrastructure, nothing does.
        • JacobThreeThree 5y ago
          Shutting down the entire CN rail network apparently didn't qualify previously. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marc-miller-path-forward-protests-1.5468176 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marc-miller-path-forward-pr... These railway blockades forced layoffs, and the CBC also notes that rail carries three times more than what trucks do in Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rail-shutdown-propane-supply-runs-low-maritimes-1.5465865 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rail-shutdown-pro... Instead, in this case, the Trudeau government met with the protestors and had a process of dialogue that resolved them peacefully after almost a year.
• wgljlk 5y ago
• openfuture 5y ago
  It was all foretold by the transformers franchise, the decepticons fighting the truckers and sports cars.
• nirav72 5y ago
  This is definately going to back fire on him and his administration. There weren't any major incidence of violence or rioting. They got the bridge cleared. He should've left it at that and let it fizzle out.
  • dblohm7 5y ago
    There have been multiple incidents of protesters using large vehicles to smash through police barricades. What do you call that?
    • tomohawk 5y ago
      • tptacek 5y ago
        Not political violence, per the point being made upthread. Seems unproductive to litigate beyond that distinction.
        • dane-pgp 5y ago
          Unproductive though it may be, consider the (extreme) hypothetical of a government arresting someone and forcing a needle into their arm, administering a biological agent against the recipient's will. I believe that would satisfy a literal (if unconventional) definition of "political violence". So, what's left to litigate is whether the threat/coercion of "you will lose your job unless you let us do this to you" makes the definition no longer apply. I would say that (hypothetical) refugees fleeing a government-orchestrated pogrom are still victims of "political violence" even though they had the "choice" of leaving the country (and their job); but perhaps some would argue they are merely choosing to avoid a mandate passed by their democratic government.
          • tptacek 5y ago
            A government-orchestrated pogrom would, obviously, be political violence. There is no government-orchestrated pogrom at issue in this story.
• tyleo 5y ago
  I’m not in Ottowa and I feel like I’m not sure what to believe here. On one hand, if the protests really were peaceful, I do not believe the government should shut them down. On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act. If some non-citizen entity shut down millions in trade, I don’t think it would be viewed as peaceful. Should the right to peaceful protest include the right to halt trade at this scale? Are the reports of halted trade overblown?
  • sojournerc 5y ago
    > On the other hand, I’ve heard the protests have caused millions in trade to be shut down which I would not consider a peaceful act. Since when did economic disruption become violence? I just don't understand. It makes zero sense to redefine violence to mean "something that inconveniences me, that I disagree with", Where does that end? When next the liberals want to protest something - an oil pipeline for instance (economic disruption) - would that also be called violence?
    • mmastrac 5y ago
      > When next the liberals want to protest something - an oil pipeline for instance (economic disruption) - would that also be called violence? Just so it's clear, there were environmental protests that _were_ cleared out for the same economic disruption reasons. There were concerns that it was not the right thing to do and too aggressive at the time, but I believe in retrospect that many consider it to have been the right course of action. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-wet-suwet-en-protests-arrests-1.4805620 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/what-you-need-to-know-about-th...
  • Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    Over a quarter of trade between the US and Canada goes between Detroit and Windsor, so the scale hasn't been overblown but there's a question as to why is blocking trade off the table? Seems like another case of things being ok if they impact humans but as soon as corporations are inconvenienced, the gloves have to come off and the humans treated as terrorists. If the humans would go back to their gated free speech zones, then everything would be good?
• wgljlk 5y ago
• wgljlk 5y ago
• igorkraw 5y ago
  While I still think this is not the ideal move and am in general skeptical of government claims that their invoking martial law-ish privileged comes with self control, I feel there is some nuance missing in the comments so far, particularly that this is not calling in the military and as of now not limiting "authorized protests" according to TFA, but about strengthening the executives ability to enforce the laws that are being civil disobedienced. I'm personally not a fan of law-and-order rhetoric or politics, but if you are, I feel like you should be in favour of this - and think about supporting civil right and increasing checks on the executive and judicative after Trudeau's tenure as well. --- Trudeau will not be calling in the military, he said.(...) The move will “supplement provincial and territorial capacity to address the blockades,” Trudeau said, and will afford more powers to local police forces.(...) The police will be given more tools to restore order in places where public assemblies can constitute illegal and dangerous activities, such as blockades and occupations as seen in Ottawa, the Ambassador Bridge and elsewhere. These tools include strengthening their ability to impose fines or imprisonment,” he said. (...) The measures will be “time-limited, geographically targeted as well as reasonable and proportionate to the threats they are meant to address,” he said. “The Emergencies Act will be used to strengthen and support law enforcement agencies at all levels across the country. This is about keeping Canadians safe, protecting people’s jobs and restoring confidence in our institutions.” Trudeau said the move could be used to render “essential services” such as contracting trucks to tow vehicles blocking streets.(..) Financial institutions will be “authorized or directed to take measures, including regulating and prohibiting the use of property to fund or support illegal blockades,” Trudeau said. (...) The act will also enable the RCMP to enforce municipal bylaws and provincial offences, Trudeau said. (..) Trudeau said he wanted to be “equally clear” about what the act does not entail, and said he would not be calling in the Canadian Forces.(..) “We’re not suspending the fundamental rights or overriding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we are not limiting people’s freedom of speech, we are not limiting freedom of peaceful assembly (or) preventing people from exercising their right to protest legally,” Trudeau said.
• zombiwoof 5y ago
• egberts1 5y ago
• amscanne 5y ago
  > We’re not suspending the fundamental rights or overriding the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we are not limiting people’s freedom of speech, we are not limiting freedom of peaceful assembly (or) preventing people from exercising their right to protest legally Pretending to express concern about charter rights with respect to towing some trucks away is quite the theatre. Meanwhile, Canada spent the last two years stomping on charter rights: mobility (provincial borders closed, unjustified quarantine requirements even for vaccinated Canadians), free expression (court orders to silence anti-vaxxers), and free assembly (unvaccinated in Quebec are unable to attend weddings, funerals, religious services or pretty much anything with over 25 people) to name a few. Ironically, a lot of these are the things that actually caused the protests. It’s been disappointing to see judges go along with it all (Canada has a big opt-out for charter rights, in that “reasonable limits” are allowed if they can be “demonstrably justified”), but quite ridiculous to see that statement in this context.
  • dblohm7 5y ago
    > Canada has a big opt-out for charter rights, in that “reasonable limits” are allowed if they can be “demonstrably justified” Indeed, and there is ample case law from the Supreme Court of Canada that provides guidance to judges as to how to apply that section of the Charter. R v. Oakes was one of the seminal cases in that regard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Oakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Oakes
    • amscanne 5y ago
      I read a couple of the decisions from challenges to the rules that I thought were overreaching (for example: the hotel quarantine requirement even for vaccinated Canadians), and the bar held by the judges seemed incredibly low — merely that it was “necessary” for public health. No data needed, the mere assertion is enough. I feel like in the US, states, the federal government and the judiciary tend to be more adversarial and this can be quite useful.
      • jleyank 5y ago
        If you’re hep on freedom, tool on up the road to Quebec and protest their legalized discrimination based on language, religion and probably gender. Laws that violate their own charter passed via the notwithstanding clause. This is an anti Trudeau protest by the 35% of the population that is right wing. With some “get the Governor General to disband the government” throw in. Some folks just hate being told what to do.
• zg45y456 5y ago
  [dead]
• zg45y456 5y ago
• Covzire 5y ago
  End the mandates, they're evil and counter productive.
• WesternWind 5y ago
  Some facts (and a few polls) suggest that the Trucker convoy isn't a broadly popular movement of truckers as much as a well funded tiny minority without broad support even from truckers. First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-canadian-truckers https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... Evidence suggests that funding for this protest is in large part foreign (IE not from canada) and that most canadian donations are from wealthy business owners, not workers https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/14/22933772/givesendgo-funding-freedom-convoy-hacked-donor-leaked https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/14/22933772/givesendgo-fundi... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/world/canada/canada-trucker-protests-donations.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/14/world/canada/canada-truck... The convoy is unpopular both in Ottawa and provincially, and is in fact not supported by a majority of Canadians https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22926134/canada-trucker-freedom-convoy-protest-ottawa https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22926134/canada-truc... https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-trucker-convoy-protest-poll-suggests-1.5772347 https://www.cp24.com/news/almost-2-3rds-of-canadians-oppose-...
  • buscoquadnary 5y ago
    > First 90% of Canadian truckers are vaccinated. https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana https://newrepublic.com/article/165341/fox-news-vaccine-cana... My understanding was this was about the mandates and restrictions themselves not about the vaccine. I mean I am vaxxed and oppose vax mandates.
    • pas 5y ago
      > oppose vax mandates why? could you explain your stande on other mandates/requirements and what's this vax mandate does that makes it so different? (eg. you need a passport/visa-like thing to enter, you need clothes, if you arrive by car that needs papers and a valid safety profile, you need to use the seatbelt, and so on)
      • x3n0ph3n3 5y ago
        All government mandates are enforced at the barrel of a gun.
• YetAnotherDavid 5y ago
• ramoz 5y ago
  Trudeau has been in office for over 6 years. There are no term limits in Canada.
  • ipaddr 5y ago
    With less than 32% of the popular support last election
    • jpgvm 5y ago
      So how did he win?
      • makeworld 5y ago
        His party had the largest percentage as compared to other parties.
        • jpgvm 5y ago
          So the people voted for his parties policies? Sort of sounds like he has mandate to do what his party thinks is correct then.
          • totony 5y ago
            If only he enacted the policies he said he would enact instead of triggering all the emergency acts he can find. I'm still waiting for proportional voting (it's been 6 years)
          • ipaddr 5y ago
            Yes and people voted more for other parties. He has a mandidate to represent 31% of Canadians who voted. The rest of Canadians have a mandate to resist him.
            • SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
              I don’t think this is accurate. Trudeau represents a center-left party. There are more leftist parties that also got votes and often cooperate with Trudeau’s party. Unlike in US, the fact there are multiple parties means parties generally form alliances in order to get things done, and voters vote according to their party including keeping track of what alliances they form and what gets done under those alliances. 30% of Canadians can vote for one party, knowing that 25% of other Canadians vote for an allied party, resulting in policies 55% of Canadians broadly agree with in theory.
• jleyank 5y ago
  A) Trudeau still has a minority government, so oversteps could be correct almost immediately. B) throwing 1000’s of people out of work as collateral damage is pretty selfish. These people aren’t involved in what they’re protesting. C) The original item of the protest was based on a us action. Can’t enter the us unvaccinated per their regs. Perhaps they protested the wrong people/places? D) the national defence act enables the military to be involved if requested by the appropriate premier. This has not been invoked. E) most of the mandates are imposed and controlled at the provincial level. Train, air and entry to Canada along with the federal workforce is under federal mandate.
• tandymodel100 5y ago
• johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
  The situation in Canada right now in insane. Police and government officials are actually trying to convince the public that "trucks blocking streets is an act of violence". That's the most non-violent form of protest I can imagine. While at the same time they are restricting the truckers gasoline that would allow them to both keep warm in these ridiculously cold temperatures and move their trucks out of the streets. And painting people trying to support the protesters as racists and terrorists. Goodbye, Canada. Hello, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
  • standeven 5y ago
    There have been multiple arrests for hate crimes[1], and 11 people were arrested in an Alberta blockade due to their cache of firearms and willingness to use it against the RCMP.[2] The blockades may be costing the Canadian economy $1 billion every day [3]. If these protest are peaceful and about mandates, they should be protesting at provincial legislative buildings. 1- https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hate-crimes-ottawa-protest https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hate-crimes-ottawa-protest 2- https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blockade-arrests-rcmp-monday-1.6351112 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka... 3- https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/anarchism-convoy-column-don-pittis-1.6347821 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/anarchism-convoy-column-don...
    • johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
      >If these protest are peaceful and about mandates, they should be protesting at provincial legislative buildings. That's literally what they're doing. Ottawa is full of legislative buildings. I understand that a very small fraction of protesters have done violent things. That does not make the act of blocking streets a violent one.
• ecf 5y ago
  Looks like a government is taking action after their citizens overwhelmingly are opposed to domestic terrorists ruining the lives of residents in the area.
• armagon 5y ago
  > 5:05 p.m. > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” I really feel like there were a number of "resorts" that could've been taken before this "last" one. Engaging in dialogue with the truckers and not inflaming the situation by calling the truckers names are at the top of my list. Engaging in dialogue with Canadians would be next on my list. Using the powers granted to Ontario in their state of emergency would be on my list well before declaring a nation-wide emergency.
  • chrissnell 5y ago
  • airmailspecial 5y ago
    > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” What was the "first resort"? Trudeau isn't even willing to speak with the protesters. >There is still no indication Trudeau is willing to sit down or speak to convoy participants. He said he doesn’t regret describing those taking part with “unacceptable views” as a “fringe” in Canada[0] [0] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pm-says-everything-on-the-table-to-end-blockades-following-biden-call-1.5777759 https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pm-says-everything-on-the-ta...
    • dmix 5y ago
      So he's tried nothing and it's not working?
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    • newsclues 5y ago
      If you always assume you are right any opposition is an excuse to expand your power.
• galosh 5y ago
  Insightful thread on how (worst case) this might escalate: https://twitter.com/man_integrated/status/1493297796031692812 https://twitter.com/man_integrated/status/149329779603169281... I'm guessing the more likely option is that the trucker community become "conscientious objectors" and refuse to work, in the hope that their number will cripple services. Does sitting at home still count as terrorism? Because I'd happily fund that
  • lovecg 5y ago
    So, a strike? That was always allowed. Given they’re not supported by the actual unions and are a pretty small fraction of truckers anyway, good luck to them.
    • totony 5y ago
      Couldn't they theoretically be forced to work with the emergency act? AFAIK it could be argued that they are providing essential services
• justinzollars 5y ago
  Truckers in Canada should Pull an Ayn Rand: Stop working. Move your families to the United States, stop working in Canada.
• canadian-on-hn 5y ago
  TL;DR: the original protest was legitimate, albeit tainted by more than a few bad actors. The subsequent several weeks have been harming local residents, and the inaction by both the Ottawa Police Service and Ontario government have resulted in this. I'm not happy it got this far, but blaming Trudeau is (mostly) misplaced. There is a fair bit of nuance here, so I'm going to try and clarify a bit of what's going on for those that haven't been following. I'll attempt to provide sources as much as I can, and for some context, I live in Ottawa. The protesters arrived on January 29th, with a rally at Parliament Hill. The original protest was largely peaceful, in the sense that the majority of the protestors did not harm or assault local residents. However, there is photographic evidence of a protester carrying a flag with a swastika on it[0] and at least one protester with a Confederate flag (who was later asked to leave)[1]. Other objectionable reports include drinking and dancing on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, and protesters assaulting and harassing members of soup kitchen[2]. These initial actions didn't exactly endear them to the locals, but in truth, this was surprisingly peaceful given how bad things could have been. Beyond the first day, however, things largely got worse for residents of Ottawa. Describing things as "honking" is understating it; for the first two weeks, anyone within a few blocks of the protest had to deal with loud truck horns, and aftermarket "train horns", blaring throughout the majority of the day and night. There is documented evidence[3] that long-term exposure to noise is detrimental to human mental health, so for folks living in this area, things have been horrid. Additionally, idling trucks for so long harms the local air quality, especially in buildings that aren't particularly well-sealed... which tend to be occupied by less well-off folks that are either renting or can't afford to retrofit their home. I won't go into every single case, but in the subsequent few weeks, there have been cases of attempted arson[4], cases where protesters are attempting to handcuff the doors closed on another building[5], and various reports of folks being harassed for wearing masks, for having the pride flag displayed, and more. The Ottawa Police Service has been completely ineffectual here, doing nothing more than asking protesters or warning them to leave, but not actually taking any enforcement actions against protesters. Even when a court-ordered injunction against honking horns was granted, the OPS has not enforced it. Additionally, Doug Ford and the Ontario government have been completely absent, skipping 3 straight conferences on how to deal with the protests[6] in Ottawa. I'm personally deeply uncomfortable invoking the Emergencies Act here. But it's also true that this is probably one of the last remaining mechanisms to actually deal with the protests - not to prevent protesting from happening, but to ensure that they're not harming the lives of local residents that have their own right to safe, secure, and peaceful life. If the OPS or Ontario government had acted in any meaningful way, this would likely have not been necessary. [0]: https://twitter.com/YoniFreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374 https://twitter.com/YoniFreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374 [1]: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/man-with-confederate-flag-told-to-leave-by-ottawa-truckers-we-called-him-out https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/man-with-confederate... [2]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/convoy-truckers-canada-soup-kitchen-b2003765.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/convoy-tru... [3]: https://www.factmag.com/2016/10/09/sound-fear-room40-boss-lawrence-english-history-noise-weapon/ https://www.factmag.com/2016/10/09/sound-fear-room40-boss-la... [4]: https://globalnews.ca/news/8600592/trucker-convoy-police-investigating-arson-apartment/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8600592/trucker-convoy-police-inv... [5]: https://twitter.com/AndreaHorwath/status/1492945668838723593 https://twitter.com/AndreaHorwath/status/1492945668838723593 [6]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ford-trilateral-ottawa-border-protest-1.6346687 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ford-trilateral-ottawa-bord... (edited for spelling/grammar)
• andrewjones34 5y ago
  All the comments here are "they don't have support", "it is a small minority", etc. Popularity doesn't prove what is right and wrong, nor will it dissuade those from doing what they think is right. These tactics of "its just you, go home" will not work, because the people using these tactics do not understand their enemy. I support the truckers. I support people having freedom over what they inject in their own bodies. I don't care if I am the only one, I don't care about the threats.
• YaBomm 5y ago
• andrew_ 5y ago
  The number of comments on this that are just fine with wild authoritarian abuses like this "because vaccines are good" is astounding. People have such idealogical myopia and are shocked and appalled when the same measures are used against their interests.
  • notacoward 5y ago
    I'm seeing this on the second page, and I have yet to see a top-level comment that's in favor of this action. Most of them repeat near-identical points about how peaceful the protests have been, red herrings about Trudeau's stance re: India, and so on. The upvotes/downvotes seem to have swung heavily the same way at the same time. So I guess you don't need to act astounded any more.
    • andrew_ 5y ago
      Or perhaps I authored the reply when the replies were heavily in favor. For someone with a history and karma to reflect it here, your cynicism and snark doesn't serve you well in this instance.
      • notacoward 5y ago
        I wasn't being snarky. I was merely pointing out that the situation had changed since you made your observation. No need to turn that into personal attacks.
        • andrew_ 5y ago
          > So I guess you don't need to act astounded any more. Consider that the verbiage chosen is very easily construed as snark, or at worst a personal affront. If you meant neither, better words could have been chosen.
  • ComradePhil 5y ago
    Considering that: - the vaccines are relatively new and long term effects are unknowable, - efficacy against the current variant questionable and - the current variant being mild enough even in unvaccinated populations it is perfectly reasonable to have a significant percentage of the population to be unvaccinated, just to have a control for long term studies and for backup in case horrible side-effects come up in the long run. The vaccine makers will try to argue otherwise and try to sell as much as possible, which is why the governments should have made strong commitments to make it strictly optional and prohibited any private attempts to make it mandatory. Instead, we have seen most world politicians act as if they were completely bought out by the vaccine manufacturers.
• tw600040 5y ago
  When protests were happening in India this is what Trudeau had to say: "Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the rights of peaceful protesters. We believe in the process of dialogue. We’ve reached out through multiple means to the Indian authorities to highlight our concerns. This is a moment for all of us to pull together,"Justin Trudeau said. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concerning-canadas-justin-trudeau-backs-farmers-protests-7075085/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concern...
  • yalogin 5y ago
    Not every protest is the same just because they call it that. The one going on in ottowa is a nonsensical, made up, cult based brainwashing that got spilled into the open. Don’t equate it to other genuine forms of protest.
    • wyager 5y ago
      Very wise and true - only demonstrations for correct things are protests. Demonstrations for incorrect things are terrorism, brainwashing, etc.
  • abledon 5y ago
    was it only the 10% fringe farmers protesting? or the 90% majority of farmers?
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • nathanaldensr 5y ago
      Phew. For a moment there I was unsure of how to qualify a legitimate protest. I feel calmer now that abledon has defined a threshold.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
• rubyist5eva 5y ago
  This is a very sad day to be Canadian, I'm worried it's only going to get much sadder.
• hiyer 5y ago
  When a section of Indian farmers imposed similar blockades on Indian highways, Trudeau was shilling their "right to protest" to pander to his Sikh voters. This despite the fact that the Indian protests were far from peaceful - devolving into riots[1], and the protest sites being venues for rapes[2] and gruesome murders[3,4]. With peaceful protests in his own backyard, Trudeau has forced private organisations to block their funding, imposed emergency and called out the army. Hypocrisy at its finest. 1. https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-300-cops-injured-in-farmers-tractor-rally-violence-delhi-police-11611726061467.html https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-300-cops-injured-in... 2. https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/fir-names-six-in-gangrape-of-26-year-old-at-tikri-protest-site-7309577/ https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/fir-names-six... 3. https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/man-burnt-to-death-near-tikri-border-one-arrested/article34844316.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/man-burnt-to-deat... 4. https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/body-with-severed-hand-found-hanging-at-farmer-protest-site-at-singhu-101634281978995.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/body-with-severed-...
  • screye 5y ago
    The hypocrisy goes deeper. Trudeau had been advocating via the WTO for the removal of farming subsidies & MSP for Indian Farmers for years at that point.[1] If he had any semblance of moral consistency, then he would have been an ardent supporter of the farm bill. [1] https://theprint.in/diplomacy/trudeau-backs-farmers-protest-but-canada-has-always-challenged-indias-farm-subsidies-at-wto/555544/ https://theprint.in/diplomacy/trudeau-backs-farmers-protest-...
    • JamisonM 5y ago
      Support for the right to protest and support for a particular policy are orthogonal, is there any indication that the Canadian government supported their right to protest contingent on the policy in question?
      • screye 5y ago
        one of the top comments addresses this > When protests were happening in India this is what Trudeau had to say: "Let me remind you, Canada will always be there to defend the rights of peaceful protesters. We believe in the process of dialogue. We’ve reached out through multiple means to the Indian authorities to highlight our concerns. This is a moment for all of us to pull together,"Justin Trudeau said https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concerning-canadas-justin-trudeau-backs-farmers-protests-7075085/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concern...
• itbeho 5y ago
  Premiers of Three Canadian Provinces Oppose PM Trudeau Invoking Emergency Measures https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-canada-truckers-provi-idINL4N2UP3SP https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-canada-tr...
• ROTMetro 5y ago
  This whole thing is so sad. My mom lived her final days in fear as she was on chemo treatment and COVID would have been a death sentence to her. The state we live in is very anti-mask, and people were outright hostile to us when we would go out in public here. To a little old lady. With no hair. Who was obviously very sick. My daughter has an autoimmune disease that again puts her at very high risk. She likely will never be able to go out in public and live a normal life again is what we have been told. I am triple vac'd and would be even without these family stories. But I also believed in HIPPA and not treating people with AIDs differently and don't understand why now all of the sudden we must treat people differently based on their medical status. This is not who we are. Remember my body my choice? People wanting to deny medical care to other human beings is as un-understandable as the people harassing my cancer tricked mom for wearing a mask. Just stop for a second people, take a breath, and try to be human. Please get vaccinated. If not for you than for others who have family that love them. Try not to advocate condemning people to death because you don't like their like choices, if not for them then for the family that loves them and would be devastated by their loss. Take a second to undig your feet from your current position and start over, because this isn't working, and it's hurting us all. These are all actual human beings, some in fear for their life from a very real threat from a severe disease, some in fear for their civil rights that their ancestors fought for. I am not right, you are not right. We hold an opinion. That should NEVER lead to deaths for those we disagree with. You don't want a rushed experimental mRNA vaccine, get the Johnson and Johnson shot. It's basically the flu shot. You feel like AIDS patients shouldn't be discriminated against? Then don't require MEDICAL passports declaring people's medical status'. You feel like it's women's bodies they have a say, then don't require experimental vaccines approved in a rush to be put in other's bodies. Seriously people just slow down for one second, and always try to humanize the other, and look at other beliefs we hold and see how someone could hold the belief they have. Take a second today on this day of love and have some compassion. You are valuable, you are important, and your view is important. But people shouldn't die because of it if you can help prevent that. They too are valuable and important and loved.
  • AlishaOwen 5y ago
    > You don't want a rushed experimental mRNA vaccine, get the Johnson and Johnson shot. It's basically the flu shot. This is incorrect, adenoviral vector vaccines (certainly, ones which induce cells to express cytotoxic spike proteins) are also quite new and relatively untested. My wife's period was messed up by her J&J shot and my friend's mother had to have surgery to remove a life-threatening blood clot from her leg. And if the idea is "just get the shot so you can move on with your life," well, the J&J shot only buys you two months of reprieve under most of the mandate & passport schemes. Other than that, I greatly appreciate your comment.
• thepasswordis 5y ago
  There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would hope that people could find some more common ground on this, since there is an almost identical debate happening around the idea of bodily autonomy: Almost nobody, or functionally/practically nobody, is "pro abortion". People who are "pro choice" are saying that they don't believe the government should be able to force women to carry a child until birth, because they believe it violates their right to bodily autonomy. The truckers are saying the same thing. They aren't "anti vaccine", they are against the government forcing them to take a vaccine, because they believe it violates their right to bodily autonomy.
  • sherry-sherry 5y ago
    Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.
    • cato_the_elder 5y ago
      I kinda agree, though probably from a different prospective than you. In the case of abortion, the right of the fetus to its life should be balanced with the bodily autonomy of the mother. You can make a much stronger argument against mandatory Covid vaccination, since it is mostly about an adult making decisions about their own health.
    • COGlory 5y ago
      Agreed. The anti-abortion argument claims that bodily autonomy should be violated because not doing so supposedly results in the direct death of a defenseless child. The pro-vax mandate argument claims that bodily autonomy should be violated because it supposedly prevents a 0.05% chance of death of an innocent person. (usually adult)
• stephc_int13 5y ago
  I don't get it. This is completely nonsensical, guys like Trudeau or Macron (France) are eroding their power for what looks like petty fights. I really don't understand what is going on behind the scene.
• morpheos137 5y ago
  Whether it is Black Lives Matter or Canadian Truckers nobody has the right to block roads. The funniest thing about the direction the world has taken since 9/11 for me is the extent to which people are being played against each other according to a plan. The plan appears to start with increasing social disorder from fomenting identity and grievance politics. At one time the organisation behind the plan was know as the Illuminati but this is now considered not to exist. Whether the human organisation exists or not society appears to have the emergent quality of implementing the "plan" autonomously. Imagine how many nutcase truckers there would be with out social media? Imagine how many vaccine and mask karens there would be without social media? Both sides are wrong and the powers that be want both sides to fight. Divide to conquer. But alas this is a conspiracy theory and can't be discussed in polite company. Absolutely hilarious to me is that the organising principle of capitalism is called the "Invisible Hand." Yes lets all work together and build an Orwellian technocratic hell so that we can get rich individually. Blind leaders leading blind men in a blind world. Compete to please the Boss...lol.
• throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Yesterday BLM, today vaccines. I don't care about the issues anymore. It'll be a different one tomorrow. I just hope that the people advocating for selective enforcement of the law and flip flopping their position based on the which side they like rather than arriving at their position via principals are young enough to be alive to reap what they sow.
• oldskewlcool 5y ago
  Trudeau, like many members of the political class, treat the messiness of democracy as a bug when it is in fact a feature. The core purpose of liberal democracy, understood by any political science undergrad, is to _limit_ power - the tyranny of the majority, the executive branch etc... Yet this is poorly understood by a class of individuals who exclusively do politics as a way of earning a living (ex. Trudeau, Liz Truss, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and so on). Democracy is designed to make their jobs difficult. It is designed to force them to be thoughtful, measured, and generally non-extreme in any direction. Things like the right to free speech, the freedom to assemble (protest) and the act of civil disobedience are designed to hold elected leaders accountable and ensure healthy checks and balances (ex. emergency powers for... covid! storms! protests!). Trudeau and his ilk deeply envy China and their 'bug free' implementation of the political class free from a significant number of checks and balances. As such they have embraced the Rahm Emmanuel mantra of "never let a good crisis go to waste" - using any so-called emergency to radically curtail democratic freedoms with an end goal of generally making their diktats more easy to implement. Think this is an exaggeration? Any protest in Canada during emergency mandates related to covid was subject to pervasive (on the ground + drone + officer cams) video surveillance, facial recognition, cell phone geofence "warrants" and ultimately a "police contact" file opened with the local law enforcement branch and the CPIC database (shared with all five eyes and used for purposes such as to deny immigration / travel / visas). The result? Massive disincentive for the professional class (with something to lose) to engage in protest and a direct limiting of democratic features like the right to freely assemble, protest and engage in civil disobedience.
  • deleted 5y ago
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  • csomar 5y ago
    China 'bug free' implementation is complete B.S. Only good news (TM) comes out of China but it doesn't mean everything there is going alright. This is because 1. the media is heavily censored and 2. Chinese do not use Twitter/FB/Youtube and as a result do not reach the rest of the world. Also: China handled the pandemic way better than the West. Source that China is not bug-free - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAM3nmNTS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jAM3nmNTS4 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Hot5n2Evg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Hot5n2Evg
• xqcgrek2 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
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• MaxMoney 5y ago
• holografix 5y ago
  Protest != siege
• moistly 5y ago
  Weapons, ammunition seized as 12 people arrested at Coutts border blockade https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-protest-weapons-ammunition-seized/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-pro... Convoy protesters break through Surrey RCMP barricade with military-style vehicle https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey-rcmp-barricade-with-military-vehicle-as-others-march-to-u-s-border-on-foot-1.5779120 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey...
• kderbyma 5y ago
  Trudeau is a tyrant and corrupt leader like his father....it's going to end poorly for him
• version_five 5y ago
  Imagine if Trump had declared martial law during his mandate to push through something he otherwise couldn't. This is literally the equivalent. There is one question of whether or not you support the cause of the protestors. The relevant question here should be whether the government can break usual norms and declare an emergency to grant itself power it otherwise wouldn't have. If you don't agree with the protestors, fine. But that shouldn't be carte blanche to ignore the rule of law and grant outsized powers to the state. If it can happen with something you support, it can also happen with something you don't support. I can't believe that so little time has passed since all the concerns about what trump could do with unchecked power, and people are suddenly perfectly cool again with the government having unchecked power
• maxdo 5y ago
  Stupid vs Stupid That's a distilled version of a western political crisis. Where parties lost ability to use rational thinking. Everyone needs to be a part of the party that very divisive. It's very stupid from both sides. One side want to stop entire country for just one medical requirement. Just do the damn vaccine and live your life. It has nothing to do with freedom or political part. The other side trying lost the opportunity to use omicron as a temporary chance to go back to norm and make requirements easier. Instead they let it blown to a real political, supply and economical crisis. Why just not be a centrist? Yes, mandate make lots of sense. Right now omicron is so easy. It's doesn't block hospitals. Leave them alone. Encourage others to do the vaccine in a stimulative way, not restrictive.
• pl0x 5y ago
• Mikeb85 5y ago
  So our government is so weak it can't do anything about peaceful protesters blocking roads, so it invokes this act that will no doubt simply be used to keep the restrictions going forever. Meanwhile inflation is running rampant but unlike the US, wages don't seem to be budging, our hospitals are clogged with homeless drug addicts but the population gets blamed, our GDP is literally held aloft by nominal housing price gains and the government wants to take away more freedoms while the rest of the world is opening up... Seems par for the course. No wonder most of the educated people I know left Canada already...
• rubatuga 5y ago
  To people who think this act is justified, this act was used in World War I, World War II, and in 1970 when Quebec had a terrorist group doing bombings, kidnappings, and murder. It’s insane, absolutely insane, to think these are equivalent. This protest is about anti-vaccine mandates... with bouncy castles. Part of me thinks this is political theatre to show how strong Canada is, with the ongoing Ukraine-Russia conflict.
  • Rendello 5y ago
    > The Emergencies Act (French: Loi sur les mesures d'urgence) is a law passed by the Parliament of Canada in 1988 which authorizes the federal government to take extraordinary temporary measures to respond to public welfare emergencies, public order emergencies, international emergencies and war emergencies. The act you're referring to was the War Measures act, which has been repealed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act
• motohagiography 5y ago
  None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade. Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual? If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails. If you are on the side of revolt, the official narrative is so increasingly divorced from reality as a means to signal it doesn't have to care about it - because this is how it says it is powerful - that it is impossible to sustain the dissonance to find any common ground or agreement in principle. I just don't see reconciliation as a result of this emergencies act process. My bets would be on a ratcheting up of controls over internet services, hyper aggressive financial services and tax enforcement, over the top surveillance exampples as threats, a miasma of staged and real "random" violence, escalating hit jobs and cancellations of the reasonable and principled, an official pivot to "fighting hate/terror" as a permanent emergency, etc. The only question to me is whether a new class of plausible leaders emerges to replace the terrible ones responsible for this nonsense, or decades of low level conflict with a radicalized populace vs. a state that has more international support than national legitimacy. The only out is removing internal passport controls and mandates. The alterative is clear. Such interesting times.
  • sleepingadmin 5y ago
    >None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been watching. I could characterize it in a number of ways, but there is nobody left to persuade. Not even a planck length of surprise to anyone. >Given some obvious inevatabilities that flow downstream of this, what's the smart thing to do as an individual? What a great question. Staying neutral? Join the protests on some side? At least try to understand what's happening? >If you are aligned to the official narrative, the incentives are to double down to make sure nobody suspects you of disloyalty if it prevails. I think when folks like Bill Maher call Trudeau out as sounding like Hitler... that was before he declared this last night. Even those on the left are seeing this as way too far. Something the convoy seems to have done is show how detached from reality Trudeau has become. He used to be a guy who would stand up in town halls and talk to anyone. >f you are on the side of revolt, the official narrative is so increasingly divorced from reality as a means to signal it doesn't have to care about it - because this is how it says it is powerful - that it is impossible to sustain the dissonance to find any common ground or agreement in principle. The mandates are falling around the world. Trudeau introduced new restrictions in January sparking this protest. It's clearly the wrong direction. The 'covid conspiracy theory' that this isn't about health. There hasnt been an emergency in quite some time. Trudeau's hand got laid down last night. This is no longer a conspiracy theory. >I just don't see reconciliation as a result of this emergencies act process. The Ottawa police have been unable to end the protests because they are legal peaceful protests. This emergencies act explicitly says you cant remove their internationally recognized human rights. Trudeau will find out shortly that the protesters are still not going anywhere, but worse force his hand. I will be quite surprised if the military doesnt get involved. >My bets would be on a ratcheting up of controls over internet services, hyper aggressive financial services and tax enforcement, over the top surveillance exampples as threats, a miasma of staged and real "random" violence, escalating hit jobs and cancellations of the reasonable and principled, an official pivot to "fighting hate/terror" as a permanent emergency, etc. No crystal ball needed to make these predictions. That's going to happen for sure. >The only question to me is whether a new class of plausible leaders emerges to replace the terrible ones responsible for this nonsense, or decades of low level conflict with a radicalized populace vs. a state that has more international support than national legitimacy. The only out is removing internal passport controls and mandates. The alterative is clear. Such interesting times. I have such respect for Liberal MP Joel Lightbound. A week ago he came out and said exactly this. Talk to the protesters, give them a reasonable roadmap to no restrictions. Stop the inflammatory attacks. Nobody is saying you must drop the mandates tomorrow. But the reason Trudeau has gone this far is because there is no roadmap to no restrictions. Restrictions are staying. The protesters forced hishand and revealed this reality.
• xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
  Why are so many Americans obsessed about Canadian politics all of a sudden? The comments here are mostly non-Canadian, and are not representative of the current general sentiment in Canada. While invocation of the Emergencies Act is always concerning, it's pretty clearly warranted here. There's always chance for abuse, but Trudeau's minority government is on thin ice and if they cross any lines they're as good as gone. I can only imagine the chaos that would unfold if this was happening in Washington, D.C., but it's not. I know some outraged Canadians who support the protests/blockades, but most of them are either extreme right wing (a comically small population compared to USA) or heavily biased through being directly impacted by restrictions (like the travel industry). The vast majority of my friends, family, colleagues, strangers on the street, business owners I interact with, lawyers, CEOs, investors, healthcare workers, waiters, bartenders, bus drivers, teachers... are all in strong support of putting an end to the disruption, and in favour of vaccine passports, mask mandates, gathering restrictions, etc. to protect public health. Compared to the USA, Canadians care much more about what's best for the collective whole than about personal freedoms. This is simply a case of a small minority causing problems for the majority, amplified by the fact that the USA leans towards supporting the protestors.
  • _3u10 5y ago
    It’s not a small minority, it’s more people than voted for Trudeau’s govt. In Canada we call that a plurality. As for wether it’s warranted and 8 of 10 premiers are against its invocation in their provinces.
    • xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
      If didn't vote for Trudeau, I guess I can't support this? An overwhelming majority of Canadians support political parties whose platforms prioritize public health over personal freedoms. Even the conservative party supported some mandates! It is indeed a small minority.
      • _3u10 5y ago
        Then why are 8 of 10 premiers opposed to the invocation of the act? Sounds like opposition to Trudeau's gov't policy is pretty broad and widespread. Probably also why the Conservatives got more votes than the Liberals (that and a lot of Canadians don't want a leader who wears blackface, I mean when you're talking fringe minorities with unacceptable views, doesn't wearing blackface to the mall sort of top the list?) Just personally, what seems more unacceptable to you, wearing blackface, or going to a peaceful protest to protest people being fired to get vaccinated for a disease they already had?
• paulus_magnus2 5y ago
  I have never heard a rational and compelling argument for COVID vaccination mandates. To enforce these we need to implement pretty much an MVP of chinese Social Score System. In the begining we were promised the vaccine will end the pandemic (supposedly downgrading covid as endemic). Vaccination does not prevent infection, does not prevent virus spread but why not make the goal at that? The vaccines are not fully approved yet, there are waivers for compensation if you get a sideeffect so effectively medical insurance treats the vaccine as medical experiment. As we can see, a nontrivial part of the population refuses to take part in the medical experiment and so far civilised countries respected that, this freedom was guaranteed by human rights, constitutions and other minor laws. To enforce vaccination mandate we need to rollback liberal democracy citizen freedoms back some 500 years and it won't be easy winning them back. The vaccine we are forcing on people is targetting the original virus from 2019, since then we went through many variants. We are not forcing everyone vaccinates for 2019 seasonal flu. Israel vaccinated everyone 4x and that did not stop the pandemic. Surely imposing martial law and effectively marking everyone unvaccinated or vaccinated more than 5 months prior as 2nd grade citizen without access to public areas is disproportional reaction to the dangers of Omicron. Some countries Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, UK? are already treating COVID as endemic, where is the rationale in some countries insisting to rollback liberal democracy with the vaccination mandate??
• Markoff 5y ago
  Emergency act, because people are parking wrong, makes sense...
• joelbondurant1 5y ago
• thinkingemote 5y ago
  Just some thoughts, I like comments to help crystallisation of my ideas. This summer will see protests from the other side in North America, and we will see more hypocrisy and what-about-isms cries. Especially when there will be more damage and death resulting from them, sadly. It will be interesting to count how many people who don't see any dual standard now, seeing it in 5 months or so. The UK at least tries to stop all protests and not just let certain ones go unhinged and supported by opposition politicians. It boggles my mind how the trucker convoy lasted longer than a day, in the UK they would have been towed away and arrested very quickly. There's no need for a state of emergency or to freeze bank accounts. It's normal policing. Canadas actions and lack of actions before are a kind of worrying symptom of dysfunction at best. Perhaps they are not used to protests? Perhaps they don't have basic common laws about protest, nuisance, decency? That would explain things. (As an aside, it's a really bad idea to protest in the middle of winter in a freezing country. Thatcher managed to negotiate with coal miners to stop them protesting in the winter, but today's protests are not by critical power supply workers)
• egberts1 5y ago
  “A republic, if you can keep it.” — Dr. Benjamin Franklin, Constitutional Convention, Independence Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Sept. 17, 1787. Oh wait, Canada isn’t even a republic, just a monarchy. . . Just a Federal parliamentary constitutional monarchy. Maybe it’s nigh time?
• lenkite 5y ago
  Trudeau is a hypocrite of the highest order. He fully backed the Indian farm protests (which blocked roads and essential supplies), supported foreign 'donations' and criticised the Indian courts for actions against the protesters. What is OK in India is not OK for Canada it seems. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concerning-canadas-justin-trudeau-backs-farmers-protests-7075085/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/situation-is-concern... Quoting Trudeau: "When a government starts trying to cancel dissent or avoid dissent is when it’s rapidly losing its moral authority to govern" https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/205322201187106816 https://twitter.com/justintrudeau/status/205322201187106816