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Building a real-time AI tutor for 5-year-olds

• ErroneousBosh 2mo ago
  It's bad enough that schools give 5-year-olds tablets to do their maths work on. Let's not expose them to AI brainrot now too.
  • K0balt 2mo ago
    Ai is brainrot because that’s what many people choose to produce with it, and it’s easy to produce brainrot at scale with AI. But it’s hardly the only thing you can produce with it. Crap content is definitely over represented. It’s an error, though, to think that is all AI is capable of. If quality is the goal, and you are willing to invest the resources to achieve it, you can easily create very high quality work. But it’s not terribly easy. And it’s not terribly fast. It is relatively cheap, maybe 1/4 to 1/10 the cost of doing it with qualified humans. But it’s not trivial and it’s not magic. It’s a force multiplier, but the quality of the idea and the performance of the model used are very important, and good models cost money to use… about $50-100 an hour if you are really leveraging it. But you can do ten hours of work in an hour or two.
    • ErroneousBosh 2mo ago
      You can, but very few people do. Mostly what I see people doing is saying "Hey, Spicy Autocomplete, steal me some content from someone else to do <this thing>" and then post it up and ask why it doesn't work properly. But then you've got things like the AI-based animation tools that Corridor Digital used to animate 3D scans of some of the crew's children's toys, to make a Toy Story-like video. It took damn near as long to do as it would have done by hand, because it all still had to be mo-capped and so on, but the results were incredible. I guess it's similar to how just about anyone can pick up a cheapy flux-core welder and run a seagull-shit bead down a bit of metal, but a very skilled welder could do absolutely pristine work with the same crappy machine. However, I still don't think it's a good idea to plonk small children down in front of a screen, and have a creepy AI voice read nonsense out to them. While I love the idea of working with the hallucinations of a dreaming computer, because I first read Neuromancer when I was 12 or so and grew up watching things like Blake's 7 with not one but two superintelligent talking computers, the reality is actually not really that good. Children need people, not screens.
      • K0balt 2mo ago
        Yeah using ai to substitute for human attention in such a way that the child gets less interaction with people is a terrible idea. But a digital loupe that would accurately tell you what you were looking at and do a deep dive based on your interest, things that guide interactions with the world in such away to encourage curiosity and investigation, are possible using AI and not really possible without it. Of course you can also make ai toys that are designed to focus engagement on themselves and isolate the child from caregivers so they can spend more time on TikTok…so, there’s that.
• deleted 2mo ago
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• ilyausorov 2mo ago
  Really awesome work! I've been trying to do some of this real time back and forth voice coaching myself and it's no easy feat. Congrats on the progress.
  • deleted 2mo ago
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  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    Yeah – this is hard stuff. If we're successful in getting the this right, our users won't be feeling any of the complexity.
    • 4c1e6cf928 2mo ago
      > our users won't be feeling any of the complexity. brother, your users are children that you try to manipulate
• 28304283409234 2mo ago
  Please don't. Don't deprive children of the interaction with other human beings. 5 year olds don't need tutors. They need play, touch, sense, feel, run, breath, sky, earth.
  • eba7keb 2mo ago
    I’m curious why it has to be an either or? Spending 30 minutes with a tutor doesn’t deprive children of interaction with humans. If we can support a child’s learning (perhaps even more efficiently) doesn’t it give them more time to do that?
    • LocalH 2mo ago
      Replacing a human tutor with an AI that will wildly hallucinate is wrong, and will directly contribute to the dumbing down of society that people here often bemoan. This is the equivalent of "parenting" by putting a kid in front of YouTube Kids for half the day
      • willmarch 2mo ago
        "That will wildly hallucinate" feels wildly hyperbolic considering how fast models are improving in their abilities, especially with proper safeguards built into the model harness.
        • gentooflux 2mo ago
          I was making a dessert recipe last week where everything including utensils needed to stay cold, and Gemini suggested I freeze my hands in an ice bath before getting started.
          • willmarch 2mo ago
            It's fairly common to briefly cool your hands with cold water or in an ice bath before working on certain recipes.
• JimsonYang 2mo ago
  What is being taught to 5 year olds? And why would an AI tutor be better than an pre-k learning app Most students are pretty homogeneous in learning at that stage
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    We started with reading, providing patient coaching as kids learn to read out loud. We are now adding math and in some countries, English as a Second Language. Students actually aren't as homogenous as you might think. And it's one of the big challenges teachers have with a classroom of 25+. They're forced to teach to the middle, which isn't great for kids that are slightly behind or ahead. An AI tutor has the advantage to adapt and teach to each child's unique learning path, make sure core concepts are covered on an individual basis before moving on.
    • JimsonYang 2mo ago
      Have you read the Sal Khan thoughts on AI and education? About 1-2 years ago he had similar thoughts to solve that exact problem you mentioned. https://www.chalkbeat.org/2026/04/09/sal-khan-reflects-on-ai-in-schools-and-khanmigo/ https://www.chalkbeat.org/2026/04/09/sal-khan-reflects-on-ai... Sal khan being the founder of Khan academy the most popular online education course
      • catalinvoss 2mo ago
        Yes! Deeply admire what Sal Khan set out to do. One of the original pioneers of how technology could transform education. What we learnt from it: a chatbot is not enough to teach a child though. We need more to fully engage them and have the tools and context to truly teach them. We describe this in the blog post, curious what you think.
        • JimsonYang 2mo ago
          Being frank I think its not enough to have a good looking app and have some llm calls Think about your competition for your market. When I want my child to really excel in learning, I would force them into kumon - so they can skip a grade. If your a student who wants to learn you have khan academy. And im just not seeing anything that screams-this is better than khan academy and kumon All i see is an education app with good design Sorry if it sounds harsh P.s. if youre on the mission of educating people from developing countries-different story and different problems. Ignore what i put here then
• LocalH 2mo ago
  Dear God no. Keep kids away from AI, and keep AI away from kids. Kids need more human contact, not less. The more I think about it, the more I want to ban your entire business model
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    • catalinvoss 2mo ago
      Business model is interesting BTW. We’re a public benefit company and are planning to make our products completely free in emerging markets and have a free tier in the US. Impact and business should be aligned here, but pulling in opposite corners.
  • teichman 2mo ago
    Personally I would like to see kids learn way way more in much less time, and it’s clear AI is going to make that possible. What you are saying sounds a lot like “I want kids to learn less and be dumber”
    • mekael 2mo ago
      Im unsure as to how "it's clear that AI is going to make that possible". Things that help kids learn - parents who love and care for them - stable housing - stable access to food - stable access to high quality eduction provided by a human being - stable access to healthcare None of those are provided by AI, and never can be. The only thing that will is a thorough reimagining of the society we live in. Note: This is all predicated on living in America, and I pre-apologize to everyone who doesn't.
• deleted 2mo ago
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• LocalH 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    I get where you're coming from. There’s a lot of potential to misuse AI with kids. What we do believe is that children will be living in a world where this technology will exist, and how it gets used becomes the important question. We also have to prepare them for that world and how to thrive in it. I would never give my son raw ChatGPT the same way you wouldn’t give a 5 year old access to the raw internet. But that doesn’t mean that the internet can’t be used for learning. We don’t have all the answers and we can’t respond for all of AI, but we’re a team of parents, teachers, and child psychologists who deeply care about getting this right and unlocking the opportunities for kids. The article goes into the technical depth of how we make it pedagogically aligned, safe, non-slop.
  • teichman 2mo ago
    Human teacher hallucination rate is like at least 1 in 100
  • dang 2mo ago
    You've posted 4 shallow, indignant dismissals in this thread. That's excessive, so please don't. I realize you have reason to feel strongly about this, as do many others. That's certainly fine. But once is enough to make your point. HN is for curious conversation, not attack or denunciation. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
• AlexeyBrin 2mo ago
  This sounds like a terrible idea. 5 years olds need human interaction with a human tutor or with other children.
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    Human tutor is definitely the best thing we could do, but it’s not attainable to give every child a human tutor and clearly the current system isn’t working. If you manage to build a good AI tutor, you can unlock more human interaction outside of self-directed learning time
• JungleGymSam 2mo ago
  stop. children need humans not AI. i hate this.
  • thenatureboy 2mo ago
    Not every child has a tuned-in parent to care for them. Thats reality bud.
• jbotz 2mo ago
  I wish I had had this when I was a 5-year-old. Few of my teachers really understood the things I wanted to learn, my peers weren't interested in the nerdy things I was, and my parents certainly didn't have the wealth to provide me with private tutoring. There are a lot of negative comments here, but they are shallow... I'm sure those commenters wouldn't want to live without the access to the Internet, and even a brilliant five-year-old can't use the Internet effectively yet. A smart and curious 5-year-old has endless questions and a properly harnessed LLM has endless patience to provide answers at a level the kind can understand (which usually not even it's parents do). In fact, this could be one of the most beneficial uses of AI for society yet... private tutors of the level that the mega-rich always had, now for all kids everywhere! This gives me real hope for the future generations of humanity.
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    I was that same 5 year old. I do think that if we want AI to force-multiply humanity, we need to start leveraging it for education. I think it's one of the biggest levers we have to be honest
    • zarify 2mo ago
      AI aside, I think the biggest thing we could do is stop thinking about education as a profit centre. We’re not multiplying humanity if we’re only doing it for the fraction that can afford it. Edit: Having more of a look I see you’re making this freemium, which is a good thing.
      • catalinvoss 2mo ago
        And fully free in emerging markets, beginning in Africa
        • altmanaltman 2mo ago
          how much do you think education costs in "Africa"?
• jostylr 2mo ago
  What are your thoughts about children in a Sudbury School model? These are democratic schools where children can do what they like in the day. Mostly they choose to play with other kids, games of imagination, though also doing screen time. One of the basic principles is that children figure out what they want to do and the learning comes along with it; the model views adults wanting children to learn something specific as generally counterproductive though having resources available is okay if it is not coupled with any expectations. Are your devices likely something that they would have fun with and choose to engage with or is it likely to be ignored unless adults use some kind of persuasion to have them use it? Is it cool with a child using it for a bit and then not using it for a few months and then wandering back to it? How far up into math does it go compared to what an a randomly sampled adult could actually do mathwise? Also for reading, are you using phonics or whole word sighting? For math, to what extent is it screen manipulatives versus manipulations of digits? Also, do you have provision for an older child to start learning this stuff so the basics need not be at a 4 year old presentation level, but the concepts still need to be covered? In Sudbury schools, the typical age of self-taught reading is 7-9 though it can range from 4 to 12. Useful arithmetic usually seems to happen much earlier than reading though reading tends to get completed by the children on their own while arithmetic does not advance further than the needs of money exchange without special effort. In the long run, Sudbury students have no problem with college level material, including mathematics, but it could be nice to have something that eases the white knuckling if it does not undermine the child's self-directedness.
  • eba7keb 2mo ago
    Hi! I'm Elizabeth (one of the co-founders of Ello). This is an interesting question. I actually think there is more overlap than people might assume, but it's a bit more because adaptability to various approaches to learning is part of the point. While I'm not deeply familiar with the Sudbury School model, I think there are various approaches to teaching kids that are successful because different approaches serve different types of kids and learners. I can see why this approach would be successful for a certain profile of student for whom it's the right fit. We start from the belief that children are naturally curious. Our job is to build something engaging enough that a child wants to interact with it because it is interesting and rewarding. If a child in a Sudbury environment never chose to use it, I would see that as useful feedback for us, not a problem with the child. There are opportunities for kids to explore and incorporate their interests within our app. I also think it is completely fine if a child uses it for a while, disappears for months, and comes back. Learning is rarely linear, and technology should be able to pick up wherever the child is. On reading, we’re firmly grounded in the science of reading, so we teach through explicit phonics rather than whole-word memorization because that is best practice. On math, we’re much more interested in helping children build intuition and conceptual understanding than simply getting answers. AI gives us the flexibility to use conversation, visual models, stories, or symbolic math, depending on what helps a particular child understand. One thing AI is uniquely good at is meeting learners where they are. A 10 year old who is learning to read should not have to work through material that feels like it was made for preschoolers. The underlying concepts can stay the same while the language, topics, and presentation become age appropriate. I don’t think there is one educational model that works for every child. What excites me is that AI makes it much more feasible to adapt to individual learners instead of expecting every learner to adapt to the same experience.
• ooopsnevermind 2mo ago
  Super curious to hear from the parents here: Honestly, at this point isn't not exposing our kids to AI just setting them up to fail in the future? Like not letting them learn to use the internet? I have friends who are actually teaching their kids how to use AI because they don't want them to fall behind
  • Yossarrian22 2mo ago
    What does teach how to use AI mean for grade schoolers? It’s a search engine for those purposes, the lesson is a blend of the Google and Wikipedia lessons.
    • ooopsnevermind 2mo ago
      No like in general not just for school - one of them taught their kid how to create their own bedtime stories, like with illustrations. Another one taught their kid how to make their own games with AI. Though yes I also literally have friends who have put their kids in alpha school which is SUPER ai. Like since i'm sure most of us work in software, how is this different from letting your kid learn how to code early. Wouldn't restricting access just make them...more illiterate with AI
      • duskdozer 2mo ago
        Why is "AI literacy" supposed to be a good thing here when you're effectively contrasting it with actual literacy, like bedtime stories, or "creative literacy" like learning to draw or make games?
      • Planktonne 2mo ago
        The whole point of AI is that it doesn't require advanced specialised knowledge to use; you literally can't fall meaningfully behind in it.
  • baubino 2mo ago
    My school district is beginning to roll back on computer use for kids, after having gone all in on putting almost all student work on laptops (and heavily relying on learning apps) during the pandemic. They are now offering guidance to teachers and parents about when and how to limit computer usage. They also banned student cell phones a couple years ago and students are never allowed to access social media on school property. All that to say, I think my district (and other similar ones) are struggling so hard to balance good active learning against unhealthy amounts of screen time that they will reach this same place with AI fairly quickly, within a year or two I think, and start wanting to set restrictions and place guardrails. I personally don’t know anyone who’s worried about their kids falling behind because of lack of AI knowledge. I know lots of parents worried about how screen-centered life is for kids.
• nickphx 2mo ago
  oh boy, who validates that the blackbox of bullshit is spewing valid information and not the typical nonsense ...?
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  • imp0cat 2mo ago
    That's a good question. Poorly phrased though. ;)
• dcx 2mo ago
  Full disclosure: I worked on a small project with Ello / Catalin a few years ago. At the time of writing, the sentiment in this post is that this is a terrible idea, and that kids need human tutors. The latter is 100% true. But also, you might want to know some facts about the state of children's literacy in the US (Ello is a math and reading tutor): 1. We're in crisis. As of 2025, 40% of fourth graders are reading below basic levels [1]. 2. There's a massive teacher shortage. 2025 US state data shows ~400k teacher positions either unfilled or underqualified [2] – over 10% of the workforce. 3. Bloom's 2-sigma shows that 1-1 tutoring delivers outcomes at the 90th percentile of classroom teaching. Early research is finding that AI can deliver some of this benefit [3]. 4. This can't always be solved by parents: 54% of US adults have a literacy below a 6th-grade level, and 20% are below 5th-grade level [4]. At Ello, I heard stories of children figuring out they were behind at school, and when given the app, they holed themselves up in their room and used it to get themselves caught up. And then they could read! Can you imagine falling behind at this critical juncture, and being stuck illiterate while your friends grow past you? We're currently setting kids up for lives of shame and deprivation. My take: this really is a life-changing technology. And we need this problem solved. Democracy doesn't function without an educated populace. [1] https://www.nagb.gov/news-and-events/news-releases/2025/nations-report-card-decline-in-reading-progress-in-math.html https://www.nagb.gov/news-and-events/news-releases/2025/nati... [2] https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/overview-teacher-shortages-2025-factsheet https://learningpolicyinstitute.org/product/overview-teacher... [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666920X25000402 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666920X2... [4] https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-literacy-statistics https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-liter...
  • mlmonkey 2mo ago
    > We're in crisis. As of 2025, 40% of fourth graders are reading below basic levels How much of this crisis is due to the social engineering being attempted in school districts across America? Case in point: San Francisco schools decided a couple of years ago that they would no longer teach Algebra in 8th grade. Why? Because too many kids of a certain demographic were failing it. So let's just not teach it! No class, so nobody fails it, right? It took a proposition on a ballot (i.e., an election) [1] to force the SFUSD to put Algebra back in 8th grade! I have kids in SFUSD. It often feels like the SFUSD does not care about the average and above average kids; all they focus on is the bottom layer. And even there, they do a terrible job. There was a student who got straight F's in each and every class, and still managed to be a senior in High School! [2] [1] https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Proposition_G,_Declaration_of_Policy_Urging_San_Francisco_Unified_School_District_to_Offer_Algebra_1_to_Students_by_Eighth_Grade_Measure_(March_2024) https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Propositi... [2] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/A-child-left-behind-SF-student-failed-every-12789302.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/A-child-left-beh...
• coup1799 2mo ago
  Pretty interesting. Hopefully this ends up being an affordable solution for without the means for hiring a human tutor.
• jordanmeyer 2mo ago
  The reality is, most 5 year olds don’t get access to the resources most of us have had while growing up. People are saying, “kids should have human tutors.” Guys, most people in the world don’t have any tutors! What Ello has built and other forms of AI-based tutoring is going to raise the average level of education and literacy in the world. Especially in developing countries. Let individual parents decide what’s best for their kids.
  • afry1 2mo ago
    Most of them don't get access. So let's hook them up to an insane, unproven, unpredictable autocomplete math equation and entrust it to their development as a human being. So gross.
    • jph00 2mo ago
      Heaven forbid we let poor people use software that helps their kids read. If they can't afford a tutor, they deserve nothing. (Am I doing this right?)
      • bluefirebrand 2mo ago
        We could encourage parents to take an active role in tutoring their kids but I guess that's just entirely out of the question? Nah. Let's have AI do it
        • CaptWorld 2mo ago
          Yeah tell them to change things.. why didn't we think of that? Provide opportunities to make parenting less stressful like here so that they can involve more.. this reflexive anti AI luddite attitude isn't productive as it's just less signal and more noise..
          • forgetfreeman 2mo ago
            "reflexive anti AI luddite attitude" That's awfully reductive there, champ. Most critiques of AI are based on some combination of observed failings of the technology, observed failings of the tech industry writ large, and healthy skepticism in the face of Yet Another Tech Industry Hype Typhoon. Anyway, the burden of proof isn't on skeptics, it's on the technology and it's proponents, so let's see some receipts before we agree to squander limited public resources on unproven systems yeah?
• frantang3 2mo ago
  I'm a mom who actually has kids and this thread is insane. 'Just get a tutor'...okay?? Are you paying for it? Because that's not an option for a lot of families. I get that it's more ideal, but the alternative is...nothing? Do you not agree that all kids deserves a chance to read? Are we not seeing the lack of reading proficiency in the majority of American adults nowadays?? Or yall too stuck in your tech bubbles?? There are high school students graduating who cannot do math. This is tech that is actually being used for GOOD here.
  • hattmall 2mo ago
    >There are high school students graduating who cannot do math. Then the problem is that they are graduating, no? We need to address the fundamental issues in schools, if there is no consequence to poor grades and you can still graduate without doing math then what's the point of even having school and doing math. I'm not even against AI tutors, though I'm not even sure really why there needs to even be an "AI" component, just computer learning aides seem reasonable. But if we can't figure out how to improve education with computer learning aides yet I don't really see how AI is going to improve the situation. It's just a more expensive way of doing things. I keep seeing lines like 40% of 8th graders can't read etc.. then they shouldn't be in the 8th grade. Although IME with my kids, nieces, nephews etc it doesn't even seem true as they are all learning much more than I was at the same age.
    • byzantinegene 2mo ago
      exactly, maybe the grading wasn't rigorous enough if 7th graders managed to get into 8th grade without being able to read
  • byzantinegene 2mo ago
    why would a 5-year old need a tutor?
    • TurdF3rguson 2mo ago
      because of bad grades?
• AussieWog93 2mo ago
  My oldest turns 6 in just over a week and my initial reaction to this heading - as well as the product itself and the picture of the kid using it - was heartbreak and sadness. Not anger, just sadness. Like when you read a story about a kid that's a victim of a crime. Stepping back, I can look at it somewhat objectively and see that there are both kids that need something like this and that it's probably a better solution to the "dumb" homework apps that the kids use for 20 mins a week at this age, but I don't think "Ello deprives 5 year olds of human contact" is the message you should be putting out into the world.
  • teichman 2mo ago
    I deeply wish I had AI-accelerated education growing up rather than sitting bored out of my mind while a teacher lectures at the bottom quartile
    • TheOtherHobbes 2mo ago
      Top quartile kids would easily be a year or three ahead with good virtual tutoring. But efforts like this run into the problem that only some kids are curious. The idea that "all kids are curious" simply isn't true. A lot of kids prefer sports or movement over anything even remotely intellectual, and math and language just don't interest them at all. AI tutoring can't deal with that. Nor can more conventional electronic tutors. IMO rewards for completing work need to be external - basically physical treats of some kind, not sweets, but days out or off or something similar - to compensate for those areas where kids aren't naturally motivated.
• deleted 2mo ago
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• teichman 2mo ago
  This is so cool! Ignore the haters, AI accelerated education is so obviously a gigantic win for everyone. (And massively levels the playing field.)
  • 0x073 2mo ago
    Win for everyone except the children. The same thing people said about digital classroom and it failed.
• erikschoster 2mo ago
  > Effective teaching isn't just about answering a child's question quickly, rather making the right move at the right moment. AI is also going to be an integral part shaping how this generation of kids learn to read and think, tackling this responsibly means getting the design right. Can you elaborate on what the experience is like for the child? How does this system help them learn? The article focuses on optimizing for interactivity and engagement, but doesn't discuss how this system challenges or facilitates learning and why AI needs to be the solution.
  • catalinvoss 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    • erikschoster 2mo ago
      Thank you. The segment showing a child reading text on the screen which highlighted a word they had difficulty with seems like it could be a useful learning interaction. How does your system follow up in that case? Have you studied this type of interaction? That's the only moment in the video that gave me a sense of what it might be like for a child using this system. In the blog post you say: > Imagine a custom story about dragons this week, ice princesses the next — woven with the letter blends your child needs to practice right now. Have you considered using an automated orchestration system to deliver literature that already exists? This example seems like an opportunity to introduce children to really thoughtful literature like Astrid Lindgren's Pippi Longstocking stories but I'm deeply skeptical that generating the stories with an LLM would inspire a similar experience. Are there other examples of your platform from the perspective of a child using it? I think those are both interesting cases: 1) interactive feedback on a subject they are making an effort toward mastering, and 2) trying to deliver information when it seems relevant. I'd like to know more about how you are approaching these things and other aspects of the learning process.
      • catalinvoss 2mo ago
        Totally agree that we should expose kids to the great classics and I love Pipi Langstrumpf as I grew up to know her. The challenge is often that these books aren’t the best to learn to read with, because they don’t have decodable words. So you’ll want a mix: windows into the works of great literature appropriately scaffolded and ways to explore your own curiosity. But see Elizabeth’s reply below for much better depth.
• blawre01 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • bschwindHN 2mo ago
    This comment looks like pure astroturfing.
    • Paria_Stark 2mo ago
      This whole thread is fucking scary. How are people even remotely positive about any of this shit is beyond me. Educate your kids, stop delegating the important stuff.
      • TurdF3rguson 2mo ago
        > How are people even remotely positive about any of this shit is beyond me. Well, some of us didn't grow up in perfect households, for one thing. I actively avoided both my parents at that age.
      • bschwindHN 2mo ago
        It's weird. I get that growing up in a nurturing household is a privilege, but I'm not sure the answer is to hook up kids to AI. Maybe some form of it could be beneficial, but it just seems too ripe for abuse, and/or too easy to have unintended consequences.
    • scared_together 2mo ago
      > my kids love using this fantastic learning tool > The friendly interaction between the Ello character and my kids gives them a fun motivation > AI drives a love for reading I cannot trust someone to assess a love for reading, if I also loathe their writing.
  • codeduck 2mo ago
    > best intentions in mind when they built this That's nice, and it will make a fantastic set of paving stones for the road to Hell.
• irjustin 2mo ago
  Without malice, I bring up GPT-Live-1. How does this compare and/or make you consider things? I've been very impressed with response speed, intonation, and naturalness to the voice. I argue it might be too natural with some of it's pausing and saying "ummm" and other filler words to the point it might be disingenuous but that's neither here nor there.
  • fomoz 2mo ago
    Ding, came here wondering the same. I do find it amusing, this "AI work" where people try to solve an issue and the lab (or whatever you want to call them) just makes the entire problem moot.
  • dcx 2mo ago
    Full disclosure, I worked briefly with Ello / Catalin some years back. They've done a lot of work on at least two dimensions: (1) handling the nonstandard sounds and habits of speech of very early readers, who might be as young as four, and (2) connecting this to a specialized teaching system based on the science of reading, e.g. decodable readers.
• bzmrgonz 2mo ago
  Hey buddy, I love this, thank you for sharing. I am of the belief that as the world transitions to Agent-first transactions, we clumbsy carbon life forms will be heavily disadvantaged, therefore, future citizens will be quipped wirh a digital twin/brain, which grows and learns alongside our biological braina, as well as a personalized tutor and life-guide (the digital version of jimmy the cricket).
• afry1 2mo ago
  Gross
• VerityLayer 2mo ago
  [dead]
• turtlebits 2mo ago
  Sorry, but 5 year olds don't need a tutor, let alone solo screen time. If you're giving your young child screen time, it should be with a parent, and then you might as well spend it offline. IMO, tutoring is for when a kid is behind in curriculum and you don't see that until late grade school, if not middle school.
  • yonaguska 2mo ago
    One on one "tutoring" is the most effective way to make early education productive and it's not even close. Even the outcomes of parents spending 20 minutes a day reading to their infants and toddlers correlates with better educational outcomes. and I'm sure there are many here that share my own story. The only reason I was somewhat academically successful was because my mother took the time to teach me how to read when I was 3-4. Without that early literacy, I'm sure I would have never been able to achieve anything I've done, especially with ADHD. By the time I was in kindergarten, I knew how to read already, but, even there, reading was taught 1 on 1, with students taking turns with the teacher to learn. I don't think that's done anymore at most places, especially when you have 30:1 teacher ratios. 5 year olds can be way more capable than we give them credit for, but they need personal attention.
    • turtlebits 2mo ago
      Why does early education need to be productive? At that age, I'd much rather my kids learn life skills, socialize, play, etc than any kind of "curriculum" learning. There are a lot of studies showing that emotional intelligence is a better predictor of happiness than early academics. They'll have plenty of time to be addicated to screens later on in life /s
      • ndriscoll 2mo ago
        It's not a dichotomy. My kids play with each other ~10-12 hours a day and I still taught my 4 year old to read. In fact, the more productive intentional learning is, the more time they have for play.
• jnmandal 2mo ago
  I can't imagine a worse use case for AI. Literally thought the title was a clown
  • taurath 2mo ago
    It was amusing for a moment watching all these logical technical people act like religious fundamentalists about AI, fitting problems to the predetermined solution, but now it’s just upsetting how much the people with no empathy or understanding have decided they should run the world
    • UltraSane 2mo ago
      What?
  • Walf 2mo ago
    This scene from the prescient Wall•E springs to mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xToQ4cIHkk&t=60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xToQ4cIHkk&t=60
  • sailfast 2mo ago
    Never read Diamond Age huh?
    • m4rtink 2mo ago
      Yeah, hard to get a children army going without cheap personalized AI tutors. ;-)
      • imp0cat 2mo ago
        Yeah, it's like Diamond age, except it also destroys your kid's vision. But then again, that's a potential upsell just waiting to happen - do you want eyeglasses with that? Your kid is gonna need them.
        • usrusr 2mo ago
• hannofcart 2mo ago
  This has fabulous potential if implemented right. To all the detractors, I would like to point out that your opinion of kids needing a good human teacher is overfit to your experience of having had some of those growing up. In third world countries like mine, we grow up with absolutely unqualified teachers who were unable to muster anything but a learnt-by-rote understanding of key concepts. In hindsight these were just desperate adults trying to eek a living for themselves and their family in an impoverished country and resorting to any means by which to do it: gaming the school system or calling in favours to join school faculty. I bear them no ill will. But we as kids were much worse off for it. I can assure you that no matter what concerns you may have about hallucinations in LLMs, I can bet everything I have that a reasonably modern model (and I'm thinking in the range of gemini-flash, not Fable) in a well designed harness geared towards tutoring would handily and repeatedly outperform every single teacher I had all throughout my schooling. Don't let a quest for the perfect ruin what is likely already way better than status quo.
  • taurath 2mo ago
    > your opinion of kids needing a good human teacher is overfit to your experience of having those growing up None of the AI stuff has been proven to be safe or effective for kids going thru an extremely important growth time for personality development and relational attachment. Your experience of having bad teachers doesn’t negate that the best way we know to enrich kids lives is to have effective and empathetic human teachers.
    • hannofcart 2mo ago
      > is to have effective and empathetic human teachers In the vast majority of the developing world, there are hardly any of those! Here's a glimpse of what public education in India is like: https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/the-sorry-state-of-education-in-india/ https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/the-sorry-state-of-education-in-in...
      • deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
• doublepg23 2mo ago
  Will Butlerian Jihad be on the 2028 ticket?
  • codeduck 2mo ago
    It is on mine.
• stephenhumphrey 2mo ago
  The Daimond Aige: Or, A Young Person’s Illustrated Prompter
• adamtaylor_13 2mo ago
  > A couple of seconds is enough for a child's attention to wander and for learning to stop. I'm not sure they understand just how dystopian this sounds. God forbid the five year old mind wanders.
• deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
• jazzyjackson 2mo ago
  You’re teaching children to behave like machines
• sweettea 2mo ago
  I didn't realize Ello was so young! One of my kids went from barely a reluctant reader to a proficient reader near the start of your lifetime then, I am deeply grateful we had tried so many things. Massive props.
• catalinvoss 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  • RetroTechie 2mo ago
    HN's skepticism on this subject (which I share) is understandable. At the same time I share your view of its enormous potential. Personally I'd question the "who is this coming from?" (you answered that in another comment), and "what's the intention behind it?". If you're a commercial company, I'd be tempted to suspect a "hook 'em while they're young" thought behind it. Perhaps not now, but turning into that over time because 'reasons' (cough "shareholder value" & the like). If you were a non-profit otoh, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. To address that, would you be willing to pursue a non-profit status for your company and/or platform? Has this been discussed @ some point? Btw: thanks for taking the time to address the many issues raised in this thread! HN can be a brutal place for people not used to its audience! (trust me, we're mostly friendly but with an extreme no-bullshit attitude at times).
• byzantinegene 2mo ago
  the question is, why AI? there are good educational software and games in place that can are fun, engaging and provide meaningful stimulus for children at the age of five.
• jjav 2mo ago
  This is very sad. Just spend the time in person with the 5 year old, no screens, no AI, nothing impersonal. A 5 year old just wants mommy and daddy in person playing with them. No 5 year old (or any age in that neighborhood) should be exposed to screens.
  • GlacierFox 2mo ago
    It's utterly bizarre reading the above submission, written with such glee, focused on slamming an AI in front of a 5 year old and thinking that's a good idea. Posts like this we really depress me thinking about how much a child exposed to this garbage might miss out on, sitting there like a stalker from Half Life 2.
  • nougati 2mo ago
    I agree with this sentiment but I admit I can't see it cut so cleanly. It's fair that no screens is the ideal, especially for young kids. I struggle to see it as ultimately sad though; if this serves only to replace human interaction for young kids, that would be bad, but this isn't necessarily so. I think there are real issues in today's world with screens, but software and education have an amazing capability. I'd certainly caution the business towards the subject matter. The moment that this becomes a way for parents to neglect children, or for children to avoid socialisation, then it's sad. Until then, it's good to see any software initiatives aimed at exploring educational software.
  • mahogany 2mo ago
    I am skeptical of using AI for a tutor and would not give it to my kid, but I find the staunch no-screens sentiment equally ridiculous and similar to saying no-books. Do you have kids? Are you telling me that you and the other parent spend (or spent) 100% of your time with your 5 year old? We spend a ton of time with our kid but also he watches educational TV. Unless you are privileged enough to have a nanny, having your kid constantly with another person is unrealistic to me. Then it is a matter of what they will do alone, and I don't see how a screen is inherently worse than other solo activities. I played video games and tinkered with DOS when I was a young kid and learned a lot, which led to my current career.
• cube00 2mo ago
  There is a privacy popup setting for: Marketing - These cookies are used to deliver relevant advertisements and track their effectiveness. Where do advertisements fit into the website and product? Ello has specific instructions to talk to the child about the learning activities. Giving large language models "specific instructions" is not a robust way to ensure safety. There really needs to be more published technical detail on what safety systems you have in this because if trillion dollar companies can't stop AI going off the rails, I feel you're overselling the safety systems you've built. Reading further it then goes beyond "learning activities" into LLM generated content. Some (not all) of Ello’s stories and illustrations have been created with AI technology, and AI allows children to create their own stories and experiences through guided and safe scaffolding. How are your safety systems checking the illustrations generated?
  • tomsayer 2mo ago
    Hey there, I'm Tom - cofounder of Ello. On the first Q: that popup is for the website. We're a consumer company and use paid marketing to reach parents. There are no advertisements in the product, nor is any data in the product sold or used for any purpose apart from delivering the experience. On the second, we absolutely do not just tell an LLM to be safe and hope for the best. Every output of the LLM that is going to be presented to a child runs through a three-layer safety system. But - as importantly - everything a child says to the LLM goes through that same system. 1. Programmatic, anything that could easily be flagged with hardcoded rules. 2. An LLM evaluator that can interpret meaning to catch anything that the programmatic rules miss. 3. A human in the loop that reviews everything that could be slightly concerning. We then, in turn, have a multi-tiered response system, including giving parents full access to everything that's happening so they're informed, flagging in a clear, but non-alarmist way, anything somewhat concerning, and finally direct outreach to the parents and/or authorities for anything critical.
• charinjury 2mo ago
  [dead]
• Jgoauh 2mo ago
  I strongly feel this should be illegal and the creators of this product should be judged, forbidden from holding any decision making positions in the future, and the families of the children compensated
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
• IG_Semmelweiss 2mo ago
  I'm torn about this. I primarily think that a a kid who won't pick books is a failure of the family of not noticing their interests. When i noticed my oldest 3 yr old was obsessed about cars, i bought him a car encyclopedia. He probably could not read most words or did not understand them. But pretty soon he was telling me about car models that i did not even recognize myself. And as i saw interests, i kept feeding them. My biggest struggle now is to actually keep books away from them at key times (morning routine, etc) , or keeping bad books (think cynical like My Weird School Daze, etc; or books that openly demean adults or parents) away from them Start small. Graphical novels, mostly drawings, and continue to buil on that. It can be done. Rome wasn't built on a day. At some point when they hit 5 yrs old, Grok / OpenAI are great tools to find good series appropriate to their reading level. Before that it can be vibed. Feed the addiction, buy whatever they like. At some point, you need to watch out for cynical/nasty series. In fact, all of the books we purchase are ranked against peers they have read in the past, or those we know to actively avoid buying due to cynicism, sarcasm, or open disdain towards adults (Wimpy Kid). At some point around age 9,you will need to decide if violence and some adult themes, are tolerable (Dragon Wing series). This iterative rocess also works really well for foreign language learning (reinforcing via reading mostly), by leveraging localized RPG video games. With all that said, notice that I've focused on reading skills. I don't know how i'd go about replicating this iterative path on other skills like math, mechanical, or electrical engineering learning. That's where I think a busy parent will need to find AI as the solution.
  • r_lee 2mo ago
    > At some point around age 9,you will need to decide if violence and some adult themes, are tolerable (Dragon Wing series). I remember playing GTA 4 when I was like 7 or 8. good times... not much books though. but like... avoid buying due to sarcasm...? what?
  • nephihaha 2mo ago
    Children are going to witness or experience violence at some point or ask questions about it. They will probably see some at school. I think it depends when and how you introduce it. For example, there is a heavy focus on refugees in western schools and media, but at some point a child is eventually going to have to ask what refugees are running from. (Torture and violence.) It's hard to avoid discussing violence in the context of history, or even when bullying comes up.
• kotberg 2mo ago
  [dead]
• lowsong 2mo ago
  What you're building should be illegal. Educators who use these tools on children should face jail time. It's hard to overstate the harm of the system you are building. Please understand, there is no way this idea is salvageable or any tweaks or safeguards can make it safe. If you've actually tested this on real children you've already risked extreme harm. Please, stop.
  • thenatureboy 2mo ago
    hyperbole much?
    • lowsong 2mo ago
      No. If anything I’m understating the risk.
• aibrewery 2mo ago
  [flagged]
• pavel_lishin 2mo ago
  Shouldn't this have a "Show HN" in front of it, as per the guidelines?
• taegee 2mo ago
  Screen time is fundamentally bad for a five year old regardless of the content.
  • XMPPwocky 2mo ago
    Why?
    • zombot 2mo ago
      Are you for real?
      • ndriscoll 2mo ago
        I'm not seeing the issue with e.g. Treasure Mountain or Treasure Mathstorm. They can do little math, reading, and logic puzzles while listening to Bach and Beethoven. It's engaging enough to get them to practice addition/subtraction but unengaging enough that they don't sit at it for more than 5-10 minutes at once.
    • salemh 2mo ago
      [dead]
  • mahogany 2mo ago
    Screens are a medium. I don't see how they are inherently bad, although it is probably correct that screens carry the most bad content out of any information medium. But my kid has learned how crayons and instruments are made by watching Mr Rogers, and I simply don't see how he would have learned that via some other medium in the same amount of detail (visual and auditory together). He has seen jazz and classical musicians explain and play their instruments. He has seen how adults interact with each other and respect one another through Mr Rogers and (older) Sesame Street. I've then seen this translate into his real world behaviors. You think that is fundamentally bad?
• 4c1e6cf928 2mo ago
  This is bad and you should feel bad about it. What the actual F? You can't be real man. Yeah, lets just monetize kids and ruin their lifes. What a great idea!
  • zombot 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    • dang 2mo ago
      Turning this into a nationalistic flamewar is an additional road to hell that we did not need. This thread was bad enough without it. Please don't post like this to HN again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (p.s. and yes of course we would say exactly the same thing if it were your country someone was slurring)
      • zeroCalories 2mo ago
        Hi can you please delete my account? I'm trying to quit posting on social media
        • dredmorbius 2mo ago
          Generally, email such requests to mods: hn@ycombinator.com See: <https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html> (end of FAQ).
  • blitzar 2mo ago
    Welcome to silicon valley. Enjoy your stay.
    • cliglot 2mo ago
      [dead]
• nephihaha 2mo ago
  I would argue that effective tutoring is going to have to factor in the child having regular breaks. Staring at an object a short distance away for prolonged periods will effect their eyesight, and they also need some kind of movement for other physiological reasons.
• precompute 2mo ago
  Uniting children with the machine god, what could ever go wrong?
• netsharc 2mo ago
  The child will be saying "It's not laziness. It's the dog." to her teacher...
• TonyAlicea10 2mo ago
  I think teaching a child to trust an LLM from a formative age is horrifically irresponsible. If anything, an app should be made where a child learns to correct an LLM's mistakes and learn that it isn't trustworthy. Actually, better, don't put an LLM in front of children. At all. EDIT: If a use case is for children who can't afford good education, then use an LLM to make educational materials for children, review them, and make them available for free. After all, the contents are ripped off from human educators anyway.
  • IshKebab 2mo ago
    I don't think it's quite as simple as that. LLMs do make mistakes but generally with slightly obscure difficult stuff. They're not going to struggle at all with things a 4-9 year old is learning. Also it's not like teachers never make confident mistakes.
    • TonyAlicea10 2mo ago
      > They're not going to struggle at all with things a 4-9 year old is learning. Ask them how many r's are in strawberry. > Also it's not like teachers never make confident mistakes. That's an extraordinary false equivalency that is popular around here. Teachers don't make confident mistakes because the student asked the wrong way. Teachers can be held accountable. Teachers can learn. Teachers can love their students.
      • Marha01 2mo ago
        > Ask them how many r's are in strawberry. 2024 called and wants its talking points back. > Teachers don't make confident mistakes because the student asked the wrong way. Teachers can be held accountable. Teachers can learn. Teachers can love their students. All of these can be true, and at the same it can be true that a child tutored by a good quality state-of-the-art LLM with a good teaching-focused harness could have better learning outcomes than a child without it. Even if we agreed that a good human teacher is better than a LLM, human teacher's time and attention is limited.
• vitally3643 2mo ago
  You are not making the world a better place. You've made the world worse with this project.
  • deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
• drayfield 2mo ago
  This is one of the most insidious projects I've ever seen and despite the touted credentials of the backers looks to be completely divorced from the realities of how children should be taught.
  • cognitiveinline 2mo ago
    [flagged]
• rpunkfu 2mo ago
  Yet again another product that could’ve used AI to help with a problem but basically puts everything in AI hands and calls a day. AI is great for learning, but you know what’s most important thing for children as part of their learning? Presence of a parent. Why not make this an assistant for parent & child learning session, where you can use it as encyclopedia lookup or permutation / generation of an exercise or even cheatsheet / checklist for your learning session? I think there’s huge value in being able to have such thing, where you don’t have to pull out your phone when doing something with your child and instead you could ask that assistant for a lookup online, but putting child in front of a screen and putting it’s self-development in a hands of AI is just irresponsible, lazy and quite frankly dangerous
• rob74 2mo ago
  > A teacher is constantly deciding how to engage a student, whether to say something, draw on the whiteboard, play a game, or change topics entirely. If it's really true that a teacher's job nowadays is to constantly try to cater to the whims of easily bored and distracted kids, then I pity both the teachers and the kids.
  • soggybread 2mo ago
    This isn't a new thing though, nobody likes having to sit around all day and listen to someone talk and kids are the worst at that. They're young and have so much energy so a teacher has always needed to adjust the learning to make it something that the kids can learn from while paying attention and not disrupting the class. One of my favorite things my teacher once did after we read Gary Paulsen's Hatchet was have a 'survival expert' come in and talk about some of the things that Brian had to do and how some others (real people) had to do the same thing. The size comparison he showed us between a full grown man and a moose blew my mind as a kid.
• gyosko 2mo ago
  We're so fucking doomed.
• Kaggbac 2mo ago
  The async planner is the part I'd love more detail on. If it's reasoning ahead while the kid is still talking, some chunk of that work gets invalidated every time the kid says something off-script, which at age 5 is presumably constantly. Is the speculative planning you throw away a real cost line or a rounding error? I build streaming LLM stuff (nothing this ambitious) and the "right move at the right moment" framing rings true, latency budgets change what the model can even attempt per turn.
  • duskdozer 2mo ago
    LLM-generated comments are not permitted on this site.
• zulban 2mo ago
  The criticisms here remind me of a quotation that I'll paraphrase: "in silicon valley there's a million apps to order a coffee, but not one to teach you to read". People seem to have the basic premise: why not just get an educated adult, or good teacher, or personal human tutor for the kids which is so much better? Well there's a billion parents who cannot ever afford that... So I'd just like to note that HN is absolutely 100% not the kind of community that you need to impress or sell to. Best of luck.
• nyeah 2mo ago
  Please don't do this.
• jacquesm 2mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22496163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22496163
  • classified 2mo ago
    So the last scam fell through and they're trying it again?
    • NoGravitas 2mo ago
      Yep, but updated for the latest buzzword, and with the humanity removed, as you do in 2026.
      • blitzar 2mo ago
        2020 -> 2026 ... gunna have to drop the NFTs and put in LLMs
• pton_xd 2mo ago
  Curious if this can be combined with AI-generated videos that "maximally drive a targeted brain region" (another post on the front page of HN today). These poor kids don't stand a chance... to not learn something!
• teleforce 2mo ago
  One of my ever favorite AI prompt keywords is ELI5 (Explain Like I'm 5). Last month I asked Gemini Pro to provide me ELI5 explanation on the waveform mechanism of a novel wireless system that I've been working on. To my surprise it described the principle succintly and intuitively as described to me by the original inventor of the wireless system a few years back. I was literally speechless for a minute or two.
• hptnrr 2mo ago
  As many others have said already, training 5 year olds to outsource their brains to a blackbox on the network is a truly horrible idea. They are ruined in their formative years and learn that no thinking is possible without trillion dollar companies. What makes it worse is that AI is addictive and children naturally gravitate towards the addictive. I suggest Joe the Camel as a mascot that sold nicotine to teenagers.
• tristor 2mo ago
  As someone who has been engaged in children's lives in the age range of 4-9 that have struggled with school, I can't imagine using AI being a net benefit to them. You know what helped me succeed in helping these children more than anything else? Listening to them. That's it. Listening to them to understand their viewpoint and perspective on the world, their interest areas, and the things they were curious about. Then you incorporate those things in how you teach them through direct one on one instruction. It's that simple. My niece, as an example, is now at the top of her class in most subjects and has realized she has a passion for history and geology. Not every child has the benefit of involved adults in their life, but I'd rather solve that problem than think AI is going to fix this. You're proposing taking one of the most vulnerable populations in the country and manipulating them (intentionally or not) to be reliant on one of the most exploitative technologies that has ever existed. I don't think your intent is evil, but the product here is evil. Remember that the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
  • thenatureboy 2mo ago
    > Not every child has the benefit of involved adults in their life, but I'd rather solve that problem than think AI is going to fix this. There is no clean fix to this problem and there never will be. Attacking anyone who tries to come up w/ a plausible solution is not the answer. And calling everything that you don't like evil is just childish. People deserve to have these tools at their disposal to at least ATTEMPT to improve their children's reading skills.
• redlewel 2mo ago
  Who needs to spend time raising their kid outsource that shit to a an AI SaaS lmfao what is wrong with people
• reactordev 2mo ago
  We will look back on this experiment with the same ilk that we have for early screentime for smart phones and tablets as a profound mistake in early childhood development. Kids learn most from peers and structure up until they are 10. Social queues and behaviors not taught by screens, AI, or your parents.
• reluctant_dev 2mo ago
  I get there are real problems to be solved but so many AI learning tools and apps coming out for parenting/childhood education just don't sit right with me. This included.
• wmichelin 2mo ago
  This is frankly disgusting and I hope you do not deploy this to any children. The classroom is the last place where we should be deploying AI. Look where smartphones not being used in the classroom got us. Imagine how this would harm us.
• CrzyLngPwd 2mo ago
  Bad idea. Giving children extended time in front of screens will lead to Idiocracy. It's a giant No from me.
• dabbledash 2mo ago
  There is absolutely no chance I would allow a 5 year extended exposure to an LLM.
• sitzkrieg 2mo ago
  a sign of the times. and the times are rotten
• liendolucas 2mo ago
  Please, no. The last thing a child need is a screen. Give children books, creative toys, teach them read, enjoy music, do science or any activity always with a human companion and let it be disconnected from the virtual world. Children do not need screens to learn. I didn't need one when I was a kid, nor endless generations either needed it. Why are we trying to push everything through an LLM?
  • cognitiveinline 2mo ago
    > Give children books, creative toys, teach them read, enjoy music, do science or any activity always with a human companion Privileged much?
    • naishoya 2mo ago
      It's simple for parents - be the human tutor they need. If you're capable of loving them and being responsible for raising them, that task fall to you. Underprivileged by socioeconomic realities? In the US there is Head Start for this problem, and yes, it does work and has been longitudinally proven to do so by independent studies and peer reviewed publication. In a nation without these services, but able to be here on HN reading about the situation? Who is helping your child right now? The concept of using untested, unregulated, demonstrably harmful models - see news about 'suicide ideation and school shooting facilitation' by public facing enterprise models - is a dangerous condition that no amount of hand-wavy, but "My co-founder, who is a clinical child psychologist" statements mitigate. First, that isn't a statement by the actual person purporting to be a professional, and second this statement plays into the misconception in American consumers' minds which often conflates psychiatrist with psychologist . The first is a medical degree with the responsibility and risk of losing a medical accreditation for engaging in this kind of unethical, untested approach on children at large. The second has no supervisory board capable of revoking credentials, and may even mean nothing more than an undergraduate degree in basic psychology. Thus, I am highly skeptical about any such business' ability to carry liability insurance from a reputable firm. Here on HN you can readily find articles about firms offering fraudulent compliance readiness; so I'm not doubtful of being able to procure the verisimilitude of coverage, just the veracity and legality of the coverage available to any organization taking this cavalier approach which relies on these models. Now, if the model and infrastructure Elo is leaning on is an in-house, on-premises, refined private MoE (Mixture of Experts) framework with a curated harness and training data which is demonstrably free of harmful materials and has been/continues to be fine tuned to provide provably safe content and interactions: that might be testable for compliance and liability coverage. The cost of such an infrastructure would make it a premium product, with a potential customer base that can and does already have 'affordable' human tutoring. As this human one-on-one to on-on-a-few tutoring is the gold standard benchmark for 'best-case' that this product cannot exceed, there is no viable use-case for it's existence or use, except when the parents might find an AI subscription to be less of cognitive load than managing actual people. Even rich people can be self serving and delusional about the well-being of their own children. All I can see from here is; attention grabbing, AI hype delusional, high risk, for-profit exploitation of overworked middle class parents, using uncontrollable public facing models which hide behind a 'we take no responsibility for the results' disclaimer organizations that can and will spin the dials on performance and capacity quotas and 'upgrade' to a degraded, de-safety limited model with zero notice, mid workload. Which once the enticingly low costs of providing this 'risk factors as a service' are covered, has the appearance of profitability for the founders in the short term, and when the 'unlimited plan' is actually very limited will be an external 'force majeure' for either subscription price increases or rug pull from under the by-then addicted young minds. The need for solutions to the gap in educational opportunity between children of the top 1% and the rest of the world is real. This approach is not a solution; but is an entirely different class of risk posing as a solution. Shame on you both.
• theHocineSaad 2mo ago
  AI for kids? Sounds like a bad idea
• kmitz 2mo ago
  This is a terrible idea. Screen time hinders the development of fundamental skills, including language and social interaction, especially for children of these ages. France have already moved to ban screens from places with children under 3. Other countries (including UK, Australia) are also setting strong limits on screen use for kids under 5. This is for a reason. Products like this are driven by business interests, not good will. Good parenting with screen control is the best way to have a fulfilled and happy child. Protect your children, keep them away from screens while they are under 5 and guide them carefully when you introduce screen time.
• cgervasi 2mo ago
  It sounds exciting. I think this type of technology will be integrated into all primary education.
• hugepan 2mo ago
  [flagged]
• calldacopsidgaf 2mo ago
  Oh fuck off with this bullshit. Not going to slopify my child
• hnisfulomrons 2mo ago
  [dead]
• aduwah 2mo ago
  Yeah, unlimited screen time, with an LLM no less, for a 4y old. Took me 2 minutes to decide you've wasted a year
• ankur64 2mo ago
  I think there are good use cases for AI in education. A friend of mine has built a killer worksheet builder and solver for helping middle and high schoolers pass their exams. So I’m far from a hater here.
• newsicanuse 2mo ago
  Sorry to burst your bubble, but AI is not going to play any significant role in a child kearning journey. Such a garbage application for those who need concrete knowlede and not some sloppy answers. Uselss application, I would keep a track about when this application fails.
• antilimit 2mo ago
  this whole thread has been massively interesting to read through. people are always going to lean different directions and will choose different things for their kids regardless. I think having more options and tools is not likely ever a bad thing right? the ones that "work" will survive and last..