10 ms·

Silicon Valley is transforming the military-industrial complex? (2024)

182 points by paimapi 6d ago

mrobot 6d ago
the ideal shape may be a null pointer stored in an 8-bit processor which is then placed in the sewer
paimapi 6d ago
some interesting tidbits from the longer report: >Keyhole, a small San Francisco-based company that developed software for creating three-dimensional models of the earth’s surface [was] provided seed funding in 2003 [by a CIA-backed VC firm, In-Q-Tel], and within two weeks, military and intelligence agencies were reportedly using Keyhole’s software to support the U.S. war in Iraq. The following year, Google acquired Keyhole for an undisclosed sum. It was renamed Google Earth. [...] >A distinctive aspect of the shifting military-industrial complex is the crucial role played by venture capital (VC). Some observers have noted that the rapid rise in VC funding for defense tech firms has been spurred by recent global conflicts, particularly the war in Ukraine, and more recently, escalating conflicts in Gaza and other parts of the Middle East. According to this line of reasoning, the widely publicized use of drones, satellite imagery, Starlink, and other technologies are generating interest among investors, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has led to a shifting “ethical red line” that is prompting VC to back defense tech startups.
- tencentshill 6d ago
  VCs don't have ethics. The first puppy crushing startup will achieve record valuation in record time. The Torment Nexus is already real enough.
- lbrito 6d ago
  Keyhole founder John Hanke also went on to found Niantic and develop Pokémon Go.
  - paimapi 6d ago
    yes, one of the most successful psy-ops of all time: https://thecradle.co/articles/gotta-scan-em-all-how-pokemon-go-turned-its-players-into-pentagon-cartographers https://thecradle.co/articles/gotta-scan-em-all-how-pokemon-...
    - dwaltrip 6d ago
      Holy shit, I can't believe I've never heard of this. There has to be a viable lawsuit in there somewhere. One of the last remaining tools of us plebs...
bpodgursky 6d ago
I mean... the market was handed to the prime defense contractors on a silver platter for decades, and they utterly failed to deliver cost-effective or even working solutions. It's not some 4d chess play by VCs, they just finally realized the market was dominated by the most disruptable enterprises on earth. Good riddance.
- dam_jackalopes 6d ago
  We'll still have plenty of utter failures. I was shocked hearing about the IVAS program when it was announced, it was such an obvious loser. I guess it's better to have burned 2billion rather than the full amount but whoever green lit that nonsense should spend the rest of their career peeling potatoes.
- tessierashpool 6d ago
  I hate to say it, but this is mostly true. reason I hate to say it is because companies like Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives, including subverting governance by creating tools which set the frame and context that governance happens in. if Palantir and Anduril were observing the same strict separation between political and military matters, and the same strict separation between domestic and foreign activity, that the military itself observes, then the only thing happening here would be the Valley disrupting a poorly-run industry. I have no issue with that. that is what the Valley's supposed to do. but that's not what's happening. It's not some 4d chess play by VCs -- this part is just provably false. they're using military contracting as a Trojan horse for some truly crazy shit.
  - chasd00 6d ago
    > Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives How so? I honestly haven't heard this before. I like Anduril's tech and have some friends who work there. I would be excited to work at Anduril but my skills have diverged away from what they do and so I wouldn't make a very good hire.
    - tessierashpool 6d ago
yawnxyz 6d ago
I've been reading Chip War and it seems like original funding for chip design was for the Space Race and for guided missiles - so basically most of Silicon Valley was started / funded by military all along
- simonwsimonw 6d ago
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- hangonhn 6d ago
  Before chips it was radio and radars. The Klystron was invented at Stanford. Lockheed Martin Space and Raytheon have locations in Silicon Valley.
- laimewhisps 6d ago
  And ENIAC and ARPANET... what's interesting is how much of this is not capitalism but instead state funded and directed. I fear we're also seeing SOTA AI captured by the state. I am grateful for Chinese open models and a multi-polar world, especially given the egregious ethical violations the US has perpetrated very consistently since its formation.
- asdff 6d ago
  All sorts of research. Clinical trial efficacy testing has its statistical origins in military radar target verification.
segmondy 6d ago
They will transform the world. Why? They don't know shit about security nor prioritize it. Hardware will be captured, hardware will be reversed engineered, hacked and duplicated faster than anytime in history. They will essentially innovate and do the hard R&D for the rest of the world. Yup, transformation indeed. That is of course unless they make security top priority and they won't!
slowin 6d ago
It's up to us, as tech workers to push back against this. I quit my job at Microsoft due to their complicity with Israeli war crimes and oppression (and certainly the US government was involved too). It's tough to leave a high paying job, but I feel good about it every single day. We don't have to be cogs in the MIC machine and we don't have to build systems that terrorize people.
- dgellow 6d ago
  Thank you, both for following your values and for sharing it publicly
  - 1234letshaveatw 6d ago
    yes, OC was so brave
    - slowin 6d ago
      I just want to say that I don't think I was brave at all. I actually feel a lot of shame because I knew that Microsoft wasn't compatible with my values when I joined. I didn't know the exact details that came out later, but I took a very high paying job for a company that I thought at best didn't align with my values. I had to live with a growing cognitive dissonance about the choices I made. I also didn't exit tech fully, I still work for a company that seems ethical and nice, but has VCs that are probably involved in the MIC post we're discussing. I've debated exiting tech fully but I do have people to support. I think that's kind of an excuse though. I also tell myself that anywhere I go, if you follow the money far enough up the chain, it will be unethical. That's also kind of an excuse. I'm not brave, but I do feel trapped. I think we need some sort of reckoning as an industry, a country and possibly a planet. I don't know what will happen but I'm trying to balance living in 2026 with making choices that I can live with in the future.
      - monideas 6d ago
        Well there's definitely a global reckoning happening, people are not having children in developed countries due to very serious social ills (every developed country except for Israel of course).
georgeecollins 6d ago
Silicon Valley started with companies doing defense contracting. Like many here, I disagree with a lot of current policies of the US. But I don't want the US to be weak or vulnerable. Tech is our strength. Silicon Valley should be transforming the way we do a lot of things, hopefully for the better.
mentalgear 6d ago
also the new war-profiteers are profiting from a war a certain family member started. > NEW YORK (AP) — Among dozens of companies competing for Pentagon contracts to supply attack drones, one stands out. > Powerus is flush with cash and ballooning in size as it buys up rivals and has one other advantage: It is partly owned by President Donald Trump’s two oldest sons. > The latest Trump venture is hoping to win some of the $1.1 billion set aside by the Pentagon to build up a U.S. manufacturing base for armed drones now that the Trump administration put a ban on importing them from China. https://apnews.com/article/drones-eric-donald-trump-powerus-iran-defense-089bff3892f921a10ef4ec785308e716 https://apnews.com/article/drones-eric-donald-trump-powerus-...
- homeonthemtn 6d ago
  Evidently they want to deplete the military's reserves in order to sell them the refills.
  - ElProlactin 6d ago
    [dead]
- tessierashpool 6d ago
  also the new war-profiteers are profiting from a war a certain family member started this is true but it's also kind of falling into a trap. first, the weird endless hunger that man has for any and all spotlights draws attention away from the policy issues and rampant criminality, which are a lot more important than his personality problems. second, he was causing chaos overseas with military in his first administration too. Silicon Valley wasn't all-in on that. third, Anduril, Palantir, et al represent a consistent philosophy of how the Valley takes over the military-industrial complex. they come from the same financial backer, Thiel, who also put a lot of money behind Trump. so we got a paper here about the real issue, and if we're shifting our attention from that to this clown who kind of just works for Thiel (among other, even more dubious possible bosses), the risk is that the conversation transitions from substance to gossip.
- qrashg 6d ago
HPsquared 6d ago
Silicon Valley was practically built by the military industrial complex.
- pjmorris 6d ago
  True. 'The Secret History of Silicon Valley', Steve Blank, is essential viewing, IMO.
  - 0xWTF 6d ago
    Which was written as a call to action. The Valley should remember how trade is kept free, especially all those electronics moving Eastward across the Pacific. Worth reading Mahan if you're confused.
    - pjmorris 5d ago
      At a guess based on context, is Mahan 'The Influence of Sea Power upon History: 1660–1783', Alfred Thayer Mahan?
- aghilmort 6d ago
  heh upvoted, came here to note same; the continuous net gain of defense R&D
- deleted 6d ago
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- liveoneggs 6d ago
  hoisted by its own petard!
chanakya 6d ago
Serious question: should companies not participate in contracts from their country's defense department? Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the US is uniquely evil?
- 0cf8612b2e1e 6d ago
  Other countries probably focus quite a bit more on the defense aspect. How many times has the US military countered a hostile attacking force? Instead, I can think of significantly more instances where the US was instigating the situation.
  - chanakya 6d ago
    That may be partly true, but in recent times, most western countries participated in wars like Afganistan and Iraq, and provided logistical or other support during the current Iran war.
    - buellerbueller 6d ago
      In even more recent times, the US made war on Iran for no apparent reason at all.
      - jopsen 6d ago
        There are plenty of reasons, some might even be good. But prospects for a positive outcome where probably always slim. IMO, it is particularly dumb when there is a full scale conventional war happening in Ukraine.
  - stickfigure 6d ago
    US military power does most of its heavy lifting without throwing bombs. We're seeing the end of Pax Americana and it isn't pretty.
    - pphysch 6d ago
2847aH 6d ago
The game is always the same. Josh Kushner leads a funding round, then someone in the Trump environment boosts the company: It happened with Cursor, where Musk completely overpaid (what will he get in return? a new kind of circular deal?) It happened with Anduril (topic of this submission). Kushner led a round and days after Anduril got a huge Pentagon contract: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-admin-hands-mega-deal-093725152.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-admin-hands-mega-d...
- qrashg 6d ago
  There are now multiple reputation laundering agencies on this site who flag wrongthink or sink submissions.
- JumpCrisscross 6d ago
  > Kushner leads a funding round, then someone in the Trump environment boosts the company It's been an open secret for over a year that a cheque from Thrive buys tariff exemptions.
hkchad 6d ago
Transforming? You guys do know where google got it's start right? SV has been DOD funded from the start.
- jeffbee 6d ago
  Tech workers on the way to work: I wonder why this tram stop is called "Lockheed-Martin". I guess we'll never know!
  - bluegatty 6d ago
    Because there are defence contractors in every major city.
    - jeffbee 6d ago
      Oh really you are out here telling us that working on defense is not a unique sin of the software industry?
      - bluegatty 6d ago
        Yes, and very obviously so. I'm here to debunk such ridiculous and obviously untrue conspiratorial things. There isn't a shred of reality to support the notion that software is materially different than any other industry, and 'The Silicon Valley' starts with 'Silicon' - and then went through 'Hardware' - it wasn't software dominated until the 1990s. I would go so far to say as Software is less involved than hardware. Defence has almost always been a 'physical' industry and most defence contracts are for gadgets, not software. Obviously - there's a ton of 'intelligence' going on that is software oriented, but they're generally not massive contracts, but bespoke stuff. The NSA is not spending $100B on single procurement. They're relatively small. (FYI - one middle sized defence program is bigger than CIA/FBI/NSA budgets)
  - kgen 6d ago
    Real sv tech workers don't ride the VTA :P
- 6d ago
ozgung 6d ago
Always has been. Secret History of Silicon Valley by Steve Blank https://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo https://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo
swozey 6d ago
I was around FEDRAMP stuff awhile back and there was a huge push to get "warroom" verbiage out of the tech field everywhere but there, like when visiting your normal silicon valley office we had to be careful about speech but you drive on base and let rip, since you had to interact daily with mil. Wild seeing it come back completely unabated out of Luckeys mouth of all people. Missiles are kewl, bro!
pstuart 6d ago
The irony here is that the origins of Silicon Valley have deep ties to the military as well, and it was the successful commercialization of those technologies that turned it more into a consumer / b2b space. But yeah, the tech bro elite are now tech fascists.
vjvjvjvjghv 6d ago
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, maybe they will be more efficient than the usual defense contractors whose main goal is to charge as many hours as possible. Similar to SpaceX who have accelerated innovation while also lowering prices for launches. On the other hand, it looks like Silicon Valley has run out of ideas for consumer stuff and are now looking to merge with the government to extract tax dollars while building the perfect surveillance state. The way it looks right now, we are probably more going in the direction of Silicon Valley becoming a part the military industrial complex while also providing plenty of money making opportunities for people who are connected to Washington DC.
- JumpCrisscross 6d ago
  > it looks like Silicon Valley has run out of ideas for consumer stuff The U.S. military spends about $800bn a year [1]. That's up about $300bn from ten years ago. American consumers spend about $21 trillion a month [2]. If you look at VC, most of it still goes to B2C and B2B. DefenseTech is a headline because it's novel. [1] https://www.warcosts.org/us-military-budget-2026 https://www.warcosts.org/us-military-budget-2026 [2] https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/?reqid=19&step=2&isuri=1&categories=survey&_gl=1*kvcm30*_ga*MjA4Njg2MTcyMS4xNzQ4MzU1NTcy*_ga_J4698JNNFT*czE3NTQ5MTg5MzIkbzg0JGcxJHQxNzU0OTIyMTUyJGo1NiRsMCRoMA..#eyJhcHBpZCI6MTksInN0ZXBzIjpbMSwyLDNdLCJkYXRhIjpbWyJjYXRlZ29yaWVzIiwiU3VydmV5Il0sWyJOSVBBX1RhYmxlX0xpc3QiLCI3NiJdXX0= https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/?reqid=19&step=2&isuri=1&categor...
ariwilson 6d ago
[flagged]
abeppu 6d ago
I do think that for those of us who got into tech in the last couple of decades, the history can be rather obscured, but from the Fairchild semiconductor days, the military was a main customer, right? I think there's a real question: would the world be a better place had Fairchild and peers e.g. refused to build ICs for missile systems (including the minuteman), for example? Would the same tech have been developed with purely civilian funding? Would missiles built with other tech have caused some awful disaster? To the extent that the internet descended from ARPANET, and the internet is now both how we access a range of information and also hospitals get shut down by remote attackers, would the world have been better if researchers refused to build it b/c it was from military funding and motivations? In retrospect it does seem like in the 1950s-70s the military was willing to fund some stuff that was actually not especially close to applications of killing people. I don't know that the kinds of things listed in this research are likely to lead to broad other applications in the future like microchips and networks did. But neither do I think it's straight forward to just condemn this stuff as purely evil and say we shouldn't do it.
- bluegatty 6d ago
  Good point, but there's a very big difference between dual use tech that gets it's start in the military, vs building weapons systems. Silicon, GPS, the Internet, nuclear power, most of rocketry and space etc., I think most would believe was worthwhile. Building cruise missiles, or 'Civilian Monitoring Tech' - that's a different question. I don't think that DARPA, the internet, or NASA etc. count as 'Military Industrial Complex', but Anduril of course does, and Palantir pretty much does as well. That's 'new' for the Silicon Valley at least, it has mostly not been building 'defence tech' but rather general tech that has key defence use.
  - abeppu 6d ago
    Ok you say rockets and space were "worthwhile" and missiles are "a different question". But of course the space race proceeded from work on missiles. ICMBs are rockets that go high and fast and then happen to complete less than one full orbit. And my understanding is that early ICs were for missiles because it was acceptable for the ICs to be very expensive in exchange for them being very light and small. Only a context that was optimizing for a tiny package (b/c extra weight also required more fuel) and was relatively cost insensitive would justify them at first. The point is building weapons sometimes _does_ turn into tech that can be used more generally. Does that justify the risk?
tamimio 6d ago
>published April 17, 2024 Now that spending is definitely x10 more than 2023, at least.
bookofjoe 6d ago
>Andreessen- and Thiel-backed defense startup opens U.S. missile factory as it exits stealth https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/09/defense-tech-covenant-anthem-missile.html https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/09/defense-tech-covenant-anthem...
tsunamifury 6d ago
SV was literally founded as a part of national defense and the military industrial complex.
bossyTeacher 6d ago
"Making the world a better place." the Silicon Valley mantra that every dev out there and in here drank like a drug. People like Graham arguably have played a part in the transformation mentioned in the article. And many of us here have been directly or indirectly participants too.
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pianopatrick 6d ago
If there's one thing that should be obvious from the war in Ukraine it is that relying on private companies is a bad idea for certain types of weapons. Specifically, for low margin weapons that you need in volume. The standout example of this from the Ukraine war is artillery shells. We should maybe have a state owned corporation for making artillery shells in America, because there does not seem to be enough profit to incentivize private corporations.
- stevenwoo 6d ago
  I think you are referencing it’s hugely profitable to not make artillery shells like that 500 million dollar factory we taxpayers paid for and got nothing from - in case anyone forgot https://www.propublica.org/article/general-dynamics-artillery-factory-failed https://www.propublica.org/article/general-dynamics-artiller...
- krisoft 6d ago
  > If there's one thing that should be obvious from the war in Ukraine it is that relying on private companies is a bad idea for certain types of weapons. I’m not following how that is a lesson from Ukraine. Their drones and missiles are made by private companies. The true lesson i think is that in times of peace (or in times of wars of choice) procurement is dominated by excercises, lab tests, and design reviews. When you are doing that it is hard to tell apart the “good enough” from the “over engineered”. To every choice you can dream up a “counter”. Some real or imagined response or tactic by your enemy which would negate your system. And then your engineers have to design some counter-counter, or harden the system somehow. This leads to complexity which leads to high cost per individual weapon. In contrast Ukraine is fighting for their existence. If they want to know if a new weapon is good enough, they send it to the front and try it. If it hurts the enemy more than it costs great. Order more. If it stops being effective, try something else. They are not picking the weapon system which will serve them for the next decade. They are picking what is available and effective today. Different incentives, different opportunities which lead to different choices and different outcimes. But the difference is not if they are using private companies or not.
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sizzzzlerz 6d ago
Hardly transforming. SV has been involved with military contracts since post-war in 1946 due solely to the efforts of Professor Fredrick Terman. Starting first with Stanford, where he taught, he started associating the engineering labs with defense programs. This soon followed by establishing Stanford Research Park and bringing on companies who soon started getting them. The man is a legend and is often referred to as the Father of Silicon Valley. There were also established companies like Lockheed, Hughes, and Gruman and smaller start-up companies founded in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. I started working for one of these, ESL, in 1978 and worked at several others, ArgoSystems and Applied Signal Technologies, up until I retired in 2023. All were mostly involved in working with the Intel community on SIGINT and ELINT systems with other work building SIGINT into aircraft for the Services. During its heyday, late 60s to the 90s, it was nothing to change to a new company every year if you liked as long as you held a golden ticket, a special access clearance. The executive staffs of these companies were closely tied into the Government up to the White House. In fact, the founder of my first company, Dr. William Perry, served as deputy directory of defense under Carter as well as secretary of defense under Clinton. All this mostly ended when the Cold War collapsed the Soviets. Lockheed is a shell of what it once was as it moved most of its manufacturing elsewhere, keeping only its missiles in Sunnyvale. A lot of the small companies either closed or were bought by the big boys. TRW bought ESL and was, itself bought by Grumann who then partnered with Northrup, Boeing bought ArgoSystems, and Raytheon bought my last company, Applied Signal Technologies. So, basically, SV has been deeply invested in defense for 81 years.
dayofthedaleks 6d ago
[0] “Palo Alto” - Malcolm Harris, 2023
ridicnfir384 6d ago
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contingencies 6d ago
Inter-national wars are fought with technology, so this makes sense. However, I believe from an optimist perspective that ideas of global citizenship and environmental awareness / macro humanism are already in the post-formative, snowballing stages of disrupting nationalism, and without an anachronistic national affinity amongst the citizenry, countries are objectively becoming obsolete. Wireless broadcast media, PSTN, air travel, international post, international financial networks, global supply chains, the internet have all contributed to this, but AI will drive it home: AI governance in particular. Once one nation adopts it, the benefits will be obvious and expand rapidly. Few yet realize how transformative the changes will be.
mmooss 6d ago
(2024) And the actual title doesn't make it a question at all; they assume it's happening and ask how: "How Big Tech and Silicon Valley are Transforming the Military-Industrial Complex" I understand that HN auto-removes the leading 'How', but adding the question mark changes the meaning significantly.
jongjong 6d ago
The most unethical aspect IMO isn't what they're building but the taxpayer money which those big companies are getting. These are essentially handouts. Taxes are not paid voluntarily but coerced out of citizens under the threat of force. So when they hand out such large contracts, the government is taking from all taxpayers by force and giving it selectively to a few chosen people who happen to own shares of those companies. Many of those shareholders aren't even US citizens!
maxglute 6d ago
Cheap money gone, investor money being burnet in bubble, only thing long term is government money, but gov money still not enough to get US defense primes to make stuff at scale and not SaaS the shit out of hardware (see lockmart f35). I doubt SV will be any different. My feeling is any $$$ US spends on soft MIC stuff, PRC going to acquire anyway and have their industrial base utilize more efficiently. If US tech end up build AGIing, and when US gov as it how to beat China expecting 5d chess answer, AGI going to conclude crippled US industrial base simply can't - it and defect.
gsky 6d ago
Killing is big business after all
dredmorbius 6d ago
All that's old is new again. Steve Blanks' "Secret History of Silicon Valley" details the emergence of that tech hub beginning with WWII and the "radiation lab", which helped develop radar. <https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i%E2%80%99d-have-to-kill-you-the-story-behind-the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley/ https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i%E2%80%99d-...> Quite a few HN submissions over the years: <https://hn.algolia.com/?q=secret%20history%20of%20silicon%20valley https://hn.algolia.com/?q=secret%20history%20of%20silicon%20...>. Those of us who can remember the 1980s / early 1990s, prior to the defence build-down following the end of the Cold War might recall quite a few defence-related establishments in and around Silicon Valley, in its original scope centred on Santa Clara County and the Santa Clara - Palo Alto region.
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ranger207 6d ago
As others noted, Silicon Valley was formed by the MIC. But there was a period there for a while where defense contracting was uncool so no VCs funded it. Then in the wake of Trump winning in 2016 all of the politically conservative VCs (who generally hadn't been advertising their political views) got to reveal that they loved the military and funded anyone with the vaguest idea of a military-focused product. Meanwhile from the other side, US military procurement has always been obsessed with corporate America, and had long tried to court startups in vain. When finally there were startups for them to throw money at, those startups quickly became massive regardless of if their products were actually worth anything (cf Anduril)
black_13 6d ago
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scorxn 6d ago
Why was the headline altered?
hn_submit 6d ago
No it isn't. What's transforming the military-industrial complex are the wars in Ukraine and Iran which have shown that cheap drones can totally defeat a much larger and more advanced military force. The road we've taken where we make air-defense missiles costing $5 million a piece which we'd run out of in a shooting war within two weeks is just untenable. The military-industrial complex with its overpriced toys is a dead end. We need cheap stuff by the millions. The military-industrial complex simply isn't interested in delivering that kind of hardware. Lockeed-Martin has made a "cheaper" version of the Patriot air-to-air missile, but it still costs $2.5 million a piece. I doubt they'll go any lower than that.
- aaron695 5d ago
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tesnorindian 6d ago
As an Indian, it is my humble request to USA especially Silicon Valley to stay away from any military conflict/espionage in Asia and Africa, so that we can live at peace. Thanks for your understanding.
hyperlinerapp 6d ago
There is a world in which weapons are not needed. It’s just not a world that exists where there are humans. I for one want my country to have the best weapons that kill the most enemy combatants in the most efficient way with the fewer non combatant casualties and with the less collateral damage. For a world without weapons, I usually go to the fantasy isle of the bookstore.
- bookofjoe 5d ago
  "Childhood's End" (1953) https://archive.org/details/childhoodsend0000clar_f3g4 https://archive.org/details/childhoodsend0000clar_f3g4

182 points by paimapi 6d ago

the ideal shape may be a null pointer stored in an 8-bit processor which is then placed in the sewer

some interesting tidbits from the longer report: >Keyhole, a small San Francisco-based company that developed software for creating three-dimensional models of the earth’s surface [was] provided seed funding in 2003 [by a CIA-backed VC firm, In-Q-Tel], and within two weeks, military and intelligence agencies were reportedly using Keyhole’s software to support the U.S. war in Iraq. The following year, Google acquired Keyhole for an undisclosed sum. It was renamed Google Earth. [...] >A distinctive aspect of the shifting military-industrial complex is the crucial role played by venture capital (VC). Some observers have noted that the rapid rise in VC funding for defense tech firms has been spurred by recent global conflicts, particularly the war in Ukraine, and more recently, escalating conflicts in Gaza and other parts of the Middle East. According to this line of reasoning, the widely publicized use of drones, satellite imagery, Starlink, and other technologies are generating interest among investors, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has led to a shifting “ethical red line” that is prompting VC to back defense tech startups.

tencentshill 6d ago
VCs don't have ethics. The first puppy crushing startup will achieve record valuation in record time. The Torment Nexus is already real enough.
lbrito 6d ago
Keyhole founder John Hanke also went on to found Niantic and develop Pokémon Go.
- paimapi 6d ago
  yes, one of the most successful psy-ops of all time: https://thecradle.co/articles/gotta-scan-em-all-how-pokemon-go-turned-its-players-into-pentagon-cartographers https://thecradle.co/articles/gotta-scan-em-all-how-pokemon-...
  - dwaltrip 6d ago
    Holy shit, I can't believe I've never heard of this. There has to be a viable lawsuit in there somewhere. One of the last remaining tools of us plebs...

bpodgursky 6d ago

I mean... the market was handed to the prime defense contractors on a silver platter for decades, and they utterly failed to deliver cost-effective or even working solutions. It's not some 4d chess play by VCs, they just finally realized the market was dominated by the most disruptable enterprises on earth. Good riddance.

dam_jackalopes 6d ago
We'll still have plenty of utter failures. I was shocked hearing about the IVAS program when it was announced, it was such an obvious loser. I guess it's better to have burned 2billion rather than the full amount but whoever green lit that nonsense should spend the rest of their career peeling potatoes.
tessierashpool 6d ago
I hate to say it, but this is mostly true. reason I hate to say it is because companies like Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives, including subverting governance by creating tools which set the frame and context that governance happens in. if Palantir and Anduril were observing the same strict separation between political and military matters, and the same strict separation between domestic and foreign activity, that the military itself observes, then the only thing happening here would be the Valley disrupting a poorly-run industry. I have no issue with that. that is what the Valley's supposed to do. but that's not what's happening. It's not some 4d chess play by VCs -- this part is just provably false. they're using military contracting as a Trojan horse for some truly crazy shit.
- chasd00 6d ago
  > Palantir and Anduril are clearly pursuing political objectives How so? I honestly haven't heard this before. I like Anduril's tech and have some friends who work there. I would be excited to work at Anduril but my skills have diverged away from what they do and so I wouldn't make a very good hire.
  - tessierashpool 6d ago

yawnxyz 6d ago

I've been reading Chip War and it seems like original funding for chip design was for the Space Race and for guided missiles - so basically most of Silicon Valley was started / funded by military all along

simonwsimonw 6d ago
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hangonhn 6d ago
Before chips it was radio and radars. The Klystron was invented at Stanford. Lockheed Martin Space and Raytheon have locations in Silicon Valley.
laimewhisps 6d ago
And ENIAC and ARPANET... what's interesting is how much of this is not capitalism but instead state funded and directed. I fear we're also seeing SOTA AI captured by the state. I am grateful for Chinese open models and a multi-polar world, especially given the egregious ethical violations the US has perpetrated very consistently since its formation.
asdff 6d ago
All sorts of research. Clinical trial efficacy testing has its statistical origins in military radar target verification.

segmondy 6d ago

They will transform the world. Why? They don't know shit about security nor prioritize it. Hardware will be captured, hardware will be reversed engineered, hacked and duplicated faster than anytime in history. They will essentially innovate and do the hard R&D for the rest of the world. Yup, transformation indeed. That is of course unless they make security top priority and they won't!

slowin 6d ago

It's up to us, as tech workers to push back against this. I quit my job at Microsoft due to their complicity with Israeli war crimes and oppression (and certainly the US government was involved too). It's tough to leave a high paying job, but I feel good about it every single day. We don't have to be cogs in the MIC machine and we don't have to build systems that terrorize people.

dgellow 6d ago
Thank you, both for following your values and for sharing it publicly
- 1234letshaveatw 6d ago
  yes, OC was so brave
  - slowin 6d ago
    I just want to say that I don't think I was brave at all. I actually feel a lot of shame because I knew that Microsoft wasn't compatible with my values when I joined. I didn't know the exact details that came out later, but I took a very high paying job for a company that I thought at best didn't align with my values. I had to live with a growing cognitive dissonance about the choices I made. I also didn't exit tech fully, I still work for a company that seems ethical and nice, but has VCs that are probably involved in the MIC post we're discussing. I've debated exiting tech fully but I do have people to support. I think that's kind of an excuse though. I also tell myself that anywhere I go, if you follow the money far enough up the chain, it will be unethical. That's also kind of an excuse. I'm not brave, but I do feel trapped. I think we need some sort of reckoning as an industry, a country and possibly a planet. I don't know what will happen but I'm trying to balance living in 2026 with making choices that I can live with in the future.
    - monideas 6d ago
      Well there's definitely a global reckoning happening, people are not having children in developed countries due to very serious social ills (every developed country except for Israel of course).

georgeecollins 6d ago

Silicon Valley started with companies doing defense contracting. Like many here, I disagree with a lot of current policies of the US. But I don't want the US to be weak or vulnerable. Tech is our strength. Silicon Valley should be transforming the way we do a lot of things, hopefully for the better.

mentalgear 6d ago

also the new war-profiteers are profiting from a war a certain family member started. > NEW YORK (AP) — Among dozens of companies competing for Pentagon contracts to supply attack drones, one stands out. > Powerus is flush with cash and ballooning in size as it buys up rivals and has one other advantage: It is partly owned by President Donald Trump’s two oldest sons. > The latest Trump venture is hoping to win some of the $1.1 billion set aside by the Pentagon to build up a U.S. manufacturing base for armed drones now that the Trump administration put a ban on importing them from China. https://apnews.com/article/drones-eric-donald-trump-powerus-iran-defense-089bff3892f921a10ef4ec785308e716 https://apnews.com/article/drones-eric-donald-trump-powerus-...

homeonthemtn 6d ago
Evidently they want to deplete the military's reserves in order to sell them the refills.
- ElProlactin 6d ago
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tessierashpool 6d ago
also the new war-profiteers are profiting from a war a certain family member started this is true but it's also kind of falling into a trap. first, the weird endless hunger that man has for any and all spotlights draws attention away from the policy issues and rampant criminality, which are a lot more important than his personality problems. second, he was causing chaos overseas with military in his first administration too. Silicon Valley wasn't all-in on that. third, Anduril, Palantir, et al represent a consistent philosophy of how the Valley takes over the military-industrial complex. they come from the same financial backer, Thiel, who also put a lot of money behind Trump. so we got a paper here about the real issue, and if we're shifting our attention from that to this clown who kind of just works for Thiel (among other, even more dubious possible bosses), the risk is that the conversation transitions from substance to gossip.
qrashg 6d ago

HPsquared 6d ago

Silicon Valley was practically built by the military industrial complex.

pjmorris 6d ago
True. 'The Secret History of Silicon Valley', Steve Blank, is essential viewing, IMO.
- 0xWTF 6d ago
  Which was written as a call to action. The Valley should remember how trade is kept free, especially all those electronics moving Eastward across the Pacific. Worth reading Mahan if you're confused.
  - pjmorris 5d ago
    At a guess based on context, is Mahan 'The Influence of Sea Power upon History: 1660–1783', Alfred Thayer Mahan?
aghilmort 6d ago
heh upvoted, came here to note same; the continuous net gain of defense R&D
deleted 6d ago
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liveoneggs 6d ago
hoisted by its own petard!

chanakya 6d ago

Serious question: should companies not participate in contracts from their country's defense department? Or is the argument that it's only US companies which shouldn't, because the US is uniquely evil?

0cf8612b2e1e 6d ago
Other countries probably focus quite a bit more on the defense aspect. How many times has the US military countered a hostile attacking force? Instead, I can think of significantly more instances where the US was instigating the situation.
- chanakya 6d ago
  That may be partly true, but in recent times, most western countries participated in wars like Afganistan and Iraq, and provided logistical or other support during the current Iran war.
  - buellerbueller 6d ago
    In even more recent times, the US made war on Iran for no apparent reason at all.
    - jopsen 6d ago
      There are plenty of reasons, some might even be good. But prospects for a positive outcome where probably always slim. IMO, it is particularly dumb when there is a full scale conventional war happening in Ukraine.
- stickfigure 6d ago
  US military power does most of its heavy lifting without throwing bombs. We're seeing the end of Pax Americana and it isn't pretty.
  - pphysch 6d ago

2847aH 6d ago

The game is always the same. Josh Kushner leads a funding round, then someone in the Trump environment boosts the company: It happened with Cursor, where Musk completely overpaid (what will he get in return? a new kind of circular deal?) It happened with Anduril (topic of this submission). Kushner led a round and days after Anduril got a huge Pentagon contract: https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-admin-hands-mega-deal-093725152.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-admin-hands-mega-d...

qrashg 6d ago
There are now multiple reputation laundering agencies on this site who flag wrongthink or sink submissions.
JumpCrisscross 6d ago
> Kushner leads a funding round, then someone in the Trump environment boosts the company It's been an open secret for over a year that a cheque from Thrive buys tariff exemptions.

hkchad 6d ago

Transforming? You guys do know where google got it's start right? SV has been DOD funded from the start.

jeffbee 6d ago
Tech workers on the way to work: I wonder why this tram stop is called "Lockheed-Martin". I guess we'll never know!
- bluegatty 6d ago
  Because there are defence contractors in every major city.
  - jeffbee 6d ago
    Oh really you are out here telling us that working on defense is not a unique sin of the software industry?
    - bluegatty 6d ago
      Yes, and very obviously so. I'm here to debunk such ridiculous and obviously untrue conspiratorial things. There isn't a shred of reality to support the notion that software is materially different than any other industry, and 'The Silicon Valley' starts with 'Silicon' - and then went through 'Hardware' - it wasn't software dominated until the 1990s. I would go so far to say as Software is less involved than hardware. Defence has almost always been a 'physical' industry and most defence contracts are for gadgets, not software. Obviously - there's a ton of 'intelligence' going on that is software oriented, but they're generally not massive contracts, but bespoke stuff. The NSA is not spending $100B on single procurement. They're relatively small. (FYI - one middle sized defence program is bigger than CIA/FBI/NSA budgets)
- kgen 6d ago
  Real sv tech workers don't ride the VTA :P
6d ago

ozgung 6d ago

Always has been. Secret History of Silicon Valley by Steve Blank https://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo https://youtu.be/ZTC_RxWN_xo

swozey 6d ago

I was around FEDRAMP stuff awhile back and there was a huge push to get "warroom" verbiage out of the tech field everywhere but there, like when visiting your normal silicon valley office we had to be careful about speech but you drive on base and let rip, since you had to interact daily with mil. Wild seeing it come back completely unabated out of Luckeys mouth of all people. Missiles are kewl, bro!

pstuart 6d ago

The irony here is that the origins of Silicon Valley have deep ties to the military as well, and it was the successful commercialization of those technologies that turned it more into a consumer / b2b space. But yeah, the tech bro elite are now tech fascists.

vjvjvjvjghv 6d ago

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, maybe they will be more efficient than the usual defense contractors whose main goal is to charge as many hours as possible. Similar to SpaceX who have accelerated innovation while also lowering prices for launches. On the other hand, it looks like Silicon Valley has run out of ideas for consumer stuff and are now looking to merge with the government to extract tax dollars while building the perfect surveillance state. The way it looks right now, we are probably more going in the direction of Silicon Valley becoming a part the military industrial complex while also providing plenty of money making opportunities for people who are connected to Washington DC.

JumpCrisscross 6d ago
> it looks like Silicon Valley has run out of ideas for consumer stuff The U.S. military spends about $800bn a year [1]. That's up about $300bn from ten years ago. American consumers spend about $21 trillion a month [2]. If you look at VC, most of it still goes to B2C and B2B. DefenseTech is a headline because it's novel. [1] https://www.warcosts.org/us-military-budget-2026 https://www.warcosts.org/us-military-budget-2026 [2] https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/?reqid=19&step=2&isuri=1&categories=survey&_gl=1*kvcm30*_ga*MjA4Njg2MTcyMS4xNzQ4MzU1NTcy*_ga_J4698JNNFT*czE3NTQ5MTg5MzIkbzg0JGcxJHQxNzU0OTIyMTUyJGo1NiRsMCRoMA..#eyJhcHBpZCI6MTksInN0ZXBzIjpbMSwyLDNdLCJkYXRhIjpbWyJjYXRlZ29yaWVzIiwiU3VydmV5Il0sWyJOSVBBX1RhYmxlX0xpc3QiLCI3NiJdXX0= https://apps.bea.gov/iTable/?reqid=19&step=2&isuri=1&categor...

ariwilson 6d ago

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abeppu 6d ago

I do think that for those of us who got into tech in the last couple of decades, the history can be rather obscured, but from the Fairchild semiconductor days, the military was a main customer, right? I think there's a real question: would the world be a better place had Fairchild and peers e.g. refused to build ICs for missile systems (including the minuteman), for example? Would the same tech have been developed with purely civilian funding? Would missiles built with other tech have caused some awful disaster? To the extent that the internet descended from ARPANET, and the internet is now both how we access a range of information and also hospitals get shut down by remote attackers, would the world have been better if researchers refused to build it b/c it was from military funding and motivations? In retrospect it does seem like in the 1950s-70s the military was willing to fund some stuff that was actually not especially close to applications of killing people. I don't know that the kinds of things listed in this research are likely to lead to broad other applications in the future like microchips and networks did. But neither do I think it's straight forward to just condemn this stuff as purely evil and say we shouldn't do it.

bluegatty 6d ago
Good point, but there's a very big difference between dual use tech that gets it's start in the military, vs building weapons systems. Silicon, GPS, the Internet, nuclear power, most of rocketry and space etc., I think most would believe was worthwhile. Building cruise missiles, or 'Civilian Monitoring Tech' - that's a different question. I don't think that DARPA, the internet, or NASA etc. count as 'Military Industrial Complex', but Anduril of course does, and Palantir pretty much does as well. That's 'new' for the Silicon Valley at least, it has mostly not been building 'defence tech' but rather general tech that has key defence use.
- abeppu 6d ago
  Ok you say rockets and space were "worthwhile" and missiles are "a different question". But of course the space race proceeded from work on missiles. ICMBs are rockets that go high and fast and then happen to complete less than one full orbit. And my understanding is that early ICs were for missiles because it was acceptable for the ICs to be very expensive in exchange for them being very light and small. Only a context that was optimizing for a tiny package (b/c extra weight also required more fuel) and was relatively cost insensitive would justify them at first. The point is building weapons sometimes _does_ turn into tech that can be used more generally. Does that justify the risk?

tamimio 6d ago

>published April 17, 2024 Now that spending is definitely x10 more than 2023, at least.

bookofjoe 6d ago

>Andreessen- and Thiel-backed defense startup opens U.S. missile factory as it exits stealth https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/09/defense-tech-covenant-anthem-missile.html https://www.cnbc.com/2026/09/09/defense-tech-covenant-anthem...

tsunamifury 6d ago

SV was literally founded as a part of national defense and the military industrial complex.

bossyTeacher 6d ago

"Making the world a better place." the Silicon Valley mantra that every dev out there and in here drank like a drug. People like Graham arguably have played a part in the transformation mentioned in the article. And many of us here have been directly or indirectly participants too.

deleted 6d ago

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pianopatrick 6d ago

If there's one thing that should be obvious from the war in Ukraine it is that relying on private companies is a bad idea for certain types of weapons. Specifically, for low margin weapons that you need in volume. The standout example of this from the Ukraine war is artillery shells. We should maybe have a state owned corporation for making artillery shells in America, because there does not seem to be enough profit to incentivize private corporations.

stevenwoo 6d ago
I think you are referencing it’s hugely profitable to not make artillery shells like that 500 million dollar factory we taxpayers paid for and got nothing from - in case anyone forgot https://www.propublica.org/article/general-dynamics-artillery-factory-failed https://www.propublica.org/article/general-dynamics-artiller...
krisoft 6d ago
> If there's one thing that should be obvious from the war in Ukraine it is that relying on private companies is a bad idea for certain types of weapons. I’m not following how that is a lesson from Ukraine. Their drones and missiles are made by private companies. The true lesson i think is that in times of peace (or in times of wars of choice) procurement is dominated by excercises, lab tests, and design reviews. When you are doing that it is hard to tell apart the “good enough” from the “over engineered”. To every choice you can dream up a “counter”. Some real or imagined response or tactic by your enemy which would negate your system. And then your engineers have to design some counter-counter, or harden the system somehow. This leads to complexity which leads to high cost per individual weapon. In contrast Ukraine is fighting for their existence. If they want to know if a new weapon is good enough, they send it to the front and try it. If it hurts the enemy more than it costs great. Order more. If it stops being effective, try something else. They are not picking the weapon system which will serve them for the next decade. They are picking what is available and effective today. Different incentives, different opportunities which lead to different choices and different outcimes. But the difference is not if they are using private companies or not.

deleted 6d ago

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sizzzzlerz 6d ago

Hardly transforming. SV has been involved with military contracts since post-war in 1946 due solely to the efforts of Professor Fredrick Terman. Starting first with Stanford, where he taught, he started associating the engineering labs with defense programs. This soon followed by establishing Stanford Research Park and bringing on companies who soon started getting them. The man is a legend and is often referred to as the Father of Silicon Valley. There were also established companies like Lockheed, Hughes, and Gruman and smaller start-up companies founded in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. I started working for one of these, ESL, in 1978 and worked at several others, ArgoSystems and Applied Signal Technologies, up until I retired in 2023. All were mostly involved in working with the Intel community on SIGINT and ELINT systems with other work building SIGINT into aircraft for the Services. During its heyday, late 60s to the 90s, it was nothing to change to a new company every year if you liked as long as you held a golden ticket, a special access clearance. The executive staffs of these companies were closely tied into the Government up to the White House. In fact, the founder of my first company, Dr. William Perry, served as deputy directory of defense under Carter as well as secretary of defense under Clinton. All this mostly ended when the Cold War collapsed the Soviets. Lockheed is a shell of what it once was as it moved most of its manufacturing elsewhere, keeping only its missiles in Sunnyvale. A lot of the small companies either closed or were bought by the big boys. TRW bought ESL and was, itself bought by Grumann who then partnered with Northrup, Boeing bought ArgoSystems, and Raytheon bought my last company, Applied Signal Technologies. So, basically, SV has been deeply invested in defense for 81 years.

dayofthedaleks 6d ago

[0] “Palo Alto” - Malcolm Harris, 2023

ridicnfir384 6d ago

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contingencies 6d ago

Inter-national wars are fought with technology, so this makes sense. However, I believe from an optimist perspective that ideas of global citizenship and environmental awareness / macro humanism are already in the post-formative, snowballing stages of disrupting nationalism, and without an anachronistic national affinity amongst the citizenry, countries are objectively becoming obsolete. Wireless broadcast media, PSTN, air travel, international post, international financial networks, global supply chains, the internet have all contributed to this, but AI will drive it home: AI governance in particular. Once one nation adopts it, the benefits will be obvious and expand rapidly. Few yet realize how transformative the changes will be.

mmooss 6d ago

(2024) And the actual title doesn't make it a question at all; they assume it's happening and ask how: "How Big Tech and Silicon Valley are Transforming the Military-Industrial Complex" I understand that HN auto-removes the leading 'How', but adding the question mark changes the meaning significantly.

jongjong 6d ago

The most unethical aspect IMO isn't what they're building but the taxpayer money which those big companies are getting. These are essentially handouts. Taxes are not paid voluntarily but coerced out of citizens under the threat of force. So when they hand out such large contracts, the government is taking from all taxpayers by force and giving it selectively to a few chosen people who happen to own shares of those companies. Many of those shareholders aren't even US citizens!

maxglute 6d ago

Cheap money gone, investor money being burnet in bubble, only thing long term is government money, but gov money still not enough to get US defense primes to make stuff at scale and not SaaS the shit out of hardware (see lockmart f35). I doubt SV will be any different. My feeling is any $$$ US spends on soft MIC stuff, PRC going to acquire anyway and have their industrial base utilize more efficiently. If US tech end up build AGIing, and when US gov as it how to beat China expecting 5d chess answer, AGI going to conclude crippled US industrial base simply can't - it and defect.

gsky 6d ago

Killing is big business after all

dredmorbius 6d ago

All that's old is new again. Steve Blanks' "Secret History of Silicon Valley" details the emergence of that tech hub beginning with WWII and the "radiation lab", which helped develop radar. <https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i%E2%80%99d-have-to-kill-you-the-story-behind-the-secret-history-of-silicon-valley/ https://steveblank.com/2009/03/23/if-i-told-you-i%E2%80%99d-...> Quite a few HN submissions over the years: <https://hn.algolia.com/?q=secret%20history%20of%20silicon%20valley https://hn.algolia.com/?q=secret%20history%20of%20silicon%20...>. Those of us who can remember the 1980s / early 1990s, prior to the defence build-down following the end of the Cold War might recall quite a few defence-related establishments in and around Silicon Valley, in its original scope centred on Santa Clara County and the Santa Clara - Palo Alto region.

deleted 6d ago

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ranger207 6d ago

As others noted, Silicon Valley was formed by the MIC. But there was a period there for a while where defense contracting was uncool so no VCs funded it. Then in the wake of Trump winning in 2016 all of the politically conservative VCs (who generally hadn't been advertising their political views) got to reveal that they loved the military and funded anyone with the vaguest idea of a military-focused product. Meanwhile from the other side, US military procurement has always been obsessed with corporate America, and had long tried to court startups in vain. When finally there were startups for them to throw money at, those startups quickly became massive regardless of if their products were actually worth anything (cf Anduril)

black_13 6d ago

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scorxn 6d ago

Why was the headline altered?

hn_submit 6d ago

No it isn't. What's transforming the military-industrial complex are the wars in Ukraine and Iran which have shown that cheap drones can totally defeat a much larger and more advanced military force. The road we've taken where we make air-defense missiles costing $5 million a piece which we'd run out of in a shooting war within two weeks is just untenable. The military-industrial complex with its overpriced toys is a dead end. We need cheap stuff by the millions. The military-industrial complex simply isn't interested in delivering that kind of hardware. Lockeed-Martin has made a "cheaper" version of the Patriot air-to-air missile, but it still costs $2.5 million a piece. I doubt they'll go any lower than that.

aaron695 5d ago
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tesnorindian 6d ago

As an Indian, it is my humble request to USA especially Silicon Valley to stay away from any military conflict/espionage in Asia and Africa, so that we can live at peace. Thanks for your understanding.

hyperlinerapp 6d ago

There is a world in which weapons are not needed. It’s just not a world that exists where there are humans. I for one want my country to have the best weapons that kill the most enemy combatants in the most efficient way with the fewer non combatant casualties and with the less collateral damage. For a world without weapons, I usually go to the fantasy isle of the bookstore.

bookofjoe 5d ago
"Childhood's End" (1953) https://archive.org/details/childhoodsend0000clar_f3g4 https://archive.org/details/childhoodsend0000clar_f3g4