9 ms·

ICC ditches Microsoft 365 for openDesk

646 points by vincvinc 11mo ago

maxglute 10mo ago
Maybe it's time for UN to start rolling out their own global linux distro / mobile OS, Cue UN getting sanctioned in 3...2... But jokes aside seems like a useful global good.
- blackoil 10mo ago
  Isnt UN most bureaucratic organization possible. Would be funny to see all nations discussing/voting on features in next version.
pfortuny 11mo ago
There seems to be no spreadsheet…
petepete 11mo ago
I can't see any links to repos on the website, is it actually open? https://www.opendesk.eu https://www.opendesk.eu
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- hwartig 11mo ago
  https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://opencode.de/en/software/open-desk-1317 https://opencode.de/en/software/open-desk-1317
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- magicalhippo 11mo ago
  A bit convoluted but there was an openCode link at the bottom which eventually leads you to the repository: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk
- mkromkamp 11mo ago
  https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk
- namegulf 11mo ago
  Thanks for the link, looks like they offer the whole stack of features and more.
- aitchnyu 10mo ago
  Is there a Docker Compose file to stand up all the individual apps?
velcrovan 11mo ago
Open Desk (since the article doesn't link): https://www.opendesk.eu/en https://www.opendesk.eu/en Does anyone have any experience using it?
- clickety_clack 11mo ago
  I’d love to see pictures. I’d love to drop MS/Google docs for something I can control myself.
  - juvoly 11mo ago
    But would you be willing to pay for it? Would your company/organization be willing to move?
    - simooooo 11mo ago
      Absolutely not
  - thisislife2 11mo ago
    Have you tried LibreOffice ( https://www.libreoffice.org/ https://www.libreoffice.org/ ) or OnlyOffice ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/desktop https://www.onlyoffice.com/desktop )? Both are pretty decent, and free, and also have commercial versions.
    - ffsm8 11mo ago
      MS365/Google docs is something entirely different to the old desktop office suites It's a collaboration tool, with synced storage and file management etc The overlap of a Venn diagram between users of these software is not very large - though there is some (overlap).
      - thisislife2 11mo ago
        And both the products I mentioned also support online collaboration and storage. See LibreOffice Online ( https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ ), OnlyOffice Workspace ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/workspace https://www.onlyoffice.com/workspace ) and OnlyOffice Enterprise ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/docs-enterprise https://www.onlyoffice.com/docs-enterprise ). I can't comment how feature compatible these are but alternatives do exist and that's good new for us. (Note that openDesk is based on a fork of LibreOffice Online, which is a commercial variant for those who don't want to bother implementing everything themselves).
bix6 11mo ago
No Excel replacement? :/
- opencl 11mo ago
  The document editing portion just uses Collabora which is based on Libreoffice.
- dybber 11mo ago
  From openDesk website: > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats
  - turtlebits 11mo ago
    It's missing from the list of their products though :( https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product
    - brutal_chaos_ 10mo ago
      Take a look at the Document Management section on that page > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats.
    - brutal_chaos_ 10mo ago
      See the Socument Management section from the link you provided > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats.
- erk__ 11mo ago
  The Excel replacement they use is this one: https://www.collaboraonline.com/calc/ https://www.collaboraonline.com/calc/
pjmlp 11mo ago
After Microsoft left politics mess up with their customer base something like that was to be expected.
- bhouston 11mo ago
  Microsoft has to follow US sanctions, even if they are misplaced. This isn't a choice on Microsoft's part here. The ICC was applauded in the US in the when it went after Russia but when it goes after Israel it is sanctioned. It unfortunately hard to be impartial, like the ICC is, when it comes to international war crimes. The big players want you to play towards their favourites and only hold their enemies accountable. The US is also sanctioning Palestinian human rights groups, and kicking them off of US platforms like YouTube, because they make Israel look bad: https://theintercept.com/2025/11/04/youtube-google-israel-palestine-human-rights-censorship/ https://theintercept.com/2025/11/04/youtube-google-israel-pa...
  - sdoering 11mo ago
    Exactly what the big German corporations (as well as Ford by the way) did in the 1930s.
    - happymellon 11mo ago
      And IBM...
  - reubenmorais 11mo ago
    Nobody has to do anything, least of all massive corporations with country-sized revenues. It's /always/ a choice to comply or to put up a fight and deal with the consequences.
  - guiriduro 11mo ago
    MS could always refocus themselves as a global company (in the legal rather than marketing-only sense), and move their HQ out of the US, then there could be no Trump tantrums affecting other countries, the worse that could happen would be some sanctions on what would then be their in-country US affiliate, with no ability to affect their other global operations whatsoever. Why haven't they followed this approach? Haven't lost enough customers yet?
bawolff 11mo ago
I think the bigger question is why they were using microsoft products in the first place. USA has been very hostile to the ICC under trump, but its not exactly a huge shift, bush was also incredibly hostile. It seems borderline incompetent to use a microsoft cloud offering given the political situation. Not to mention given the type of work they do, seems like hosting stuff off site at all is a bad plan.
- lysace 11mo ago
  USA has been very hostile to the ICC since way before Trump. The ICC was created in 1998 when Bill Clinton was president of the USA. He never ratified the Rome treaty. And then GW, Obama, Trump and Biden didn't either. Very few americans batted an eye as far as I could tell. Your are after all by definition exceptional. (/s)
  - chvid 11mo ago
    No one thought the US would get this insane.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - bawolff 11mo ago
      I dont know, when bush threatened to invade the netherlands over the ICC, that was pretty insane, and in some ways worse than sanctions.
      - chvid 11mo ago
        Sure. But no one thought it, or anything like it, would actually happened.
    - perihelions 11mo ago
      > "The American Service-Members' Protection Act, known informally as the Hague Invasion Act[1] [sic] (ASPA, Title 2 of Pub. L. 107–206 (text) (PDF), H.R. 4775, 116 Stat. 820, enacted August 2, 2002) is" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
tptacek 11mo ago
Does someone have an English language link for this? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=english-language%20site%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- perihelions 11mo ago
  https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_criminal_court_ditches_office/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_crimina... ("International Criminal Court kicks Microsoft Office to the curb / "Rough justice? Redmond out as Germany's openDesk judged a better fit" (Oct. 31))
- Elfener 11mo ago
  https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_criminal_court_ditches_office/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_crimina... (was submitted to HN 3 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797515)
- firefax 10mo ago
  Firefox translate seems to work fine on it.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
Elfener 11mo ago
It's actually not called Microsoft 365, but "the Microsoft 365 Copilot app" (not to be confused with Microsoft Copilot (a slop generator with the same logo))
- iammjm 10mo ago
  It IS called Microsoft 365
  - Elfener 10mo ago
    No, they've renamed it due to "now with the power of AI": https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/ Edit: and actually, just recently it was even more direct with it: https://web.archive.org/web/20251105125410/https://www.office.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251105125410/https://www.offic...
bonyt 11mo ago
Looks like openDesk uses Collabora Online, which is itself based on libreoffice online - web based libreoffice. https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product#document-management https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product#document-management ("Collabora Online powers openDesk with a robust office suite designed for efficient teamwork and secure document editing.") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collabora_Online https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collabora_Online ("Collabora Online (often abbreviated as COOL) is an open-source online office suite developed by Collabora, based on LibreOffice Online, the web-based edition of the LibreOffice office suite.")
- trelane 11mo ago
  More than that--Collabora is a major (maybe the biggest) contributor to LibreOffice.
slwvx 11mo ago
The lack of anything at all on the roadmap page [1] and lack of a link to their code repository on a blog post touting their open-source cred [2] does not build confidence. I found their code repo link in the comments here, after not finding it easily on their site. EDIT: to be clear, I'm all for open source software, and for more options to tools from big tech firms. [1] https://www.opendesk.eu/en/roadmap https://www.opendesk.eu/en/roadmap [2] https://www.opendesk.eu/en/blog/open-source-software-trust https://www.opendesk.eu/en/blog/open-source-software-trust
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- Lapel2742 11mo ago
  At least they seem to be actively working on it: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk They have some real users too. I know of some out of my head. According to ChatGPT: - Robert Koch Institute (RKI) – entered a contract on 11 June 2025 to use openDesk as the technical basis for the “Agora” platform for public‑health authorities. - BWI GmbH – the IT infrastructure provider for the German armed forces (Bundeswehr); signed a framework contract for openDesk. - Bundesamt für Seeschifffahrt und Hydrographie – also mentioned as an early adopter of openDesk. - Föderale IT‑Kooperation (FITKO) – listed as a user in the EU OSS Catalogue entry for openDesk. I think I read that some German states use the software too. You never know what will happen in the long run but the solution will probably be maintained for some time given it's backing by the federal government of Germany.
  - robertlagrant 11mo ago
    > Robert Koch Institute (RKI) – entered a contract on 11 June 2025 to use openDesk as the technical basis for the “Agora” platform for public‑health authorities. Wow - I was just thinking this would be good. Here in the UK Microsoft are slowly taking over healthcare with their terrible Dynamics 365 platform, and some competition would be really nice.
- jraph 11mo ago
greatgib 11mo ago
[flagged]
evolve2k 11mo ago
Lawyers historically are notoriously linked to Microsoft and its formats as a somewhat unintentional industry side standard. Moves like this hearten me as for certain lawyers the formats and standards they now will be expected to follow has just shifted, towards open source no less.
- mikestew 11mo ago
  I remember when lawyers historically used WordPerfect for the same reasons. Now, I don’t know the details of how that industry shifted (MS dominance and WP shitting the bed with their GUI versions would be my guess), but it shows that it is possible.
  - jeffwask 11mo ago
    I did MS Word support in the long long ago during its transition to dominance. There was nothing worse than getting a call from a lawyer who was forced off Word Perfect.
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > a lawyer who was forced off Word Perfect My lawyers at big firms still use it, though they export .doc(x).
      - mikestew 11mo ago
        But how are they exporting such a modern document format? Holee crap, because it's still being sold an updated! https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ And the suite includes Quattro Pro, for those that are itchin' for that spreadsheet-flavored blast from the past. If I didn't already have the Apple suite on my Mac (which does all I need out of an office suite), I'd spend the $50 for home/student version just for the lulz.
        p_ing 10mo ago
        https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/professional-edition/ https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/professional-edition/ Look at those screenshots! It's still a Windows 95 look'n'feel (which some HN users might enjoy).
vincvinc 11mo ago
Related: "IMPOSING SANCTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT" (white house, feb 2025) https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/imposing-sanctions-on-the-international-criminal-court/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/impo... Microsoft admits in French court it can't keep EU data safe from US authorities (jul 2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822902
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- yupyupyups 11mo ago
  >Microsoft admits in French court it can't keep EU data safe from US authorities Snowden leaked that fact before Microsoft made the admission. But it's good that it's coming from them officially nonetheless.
  - tokai 11mo ago
    It kind felt like the ramifications of Snowden's leak were so wast that everyone just chose to forget about it.
    - realusername 11mo ago
      There's definitely a political game of pretending that the US clouds are somehow compatible with GDPR.
      - jojobas 10mo ago
        They are most likely compatible until a national security letter arrives. An American company then has to choose which law to comply with, and it's an easy choice.
        immibis 10mo ago
        That's what makes them incompatible. But companies can be a lot shadier than we give them credit for. Like, remember that "wink payment" contract between Google and Israel? If Google knew what they were doing, they accepted the contract to do the illegal thing, so they'd sell their product and get money, but they were planning to simply not do the illegal thing, breaking the contract (the customer would never know and if they somehow did, you can't stop using a cloud on a dime) but not breaking any laws. If Microsoft knows what they're doing, they'll accept contracts from EU customers that say "we will never give your data to US authorities", they break it immediately, don't tell the customer and the customer never finds out. Alternatively, they can give the US government a bunch of nothing, in order to comply with the EU customer contract, and pretend this is all the data the customer had on their account. I doubt this will happen though.
caubin 11mo ago
Hei hei, I'm working for the XWiki and CryptPad projects, which are integrated in openDesk. Here are a couple links / infos that can be interesting to understand the context of openDesk. The openDesk project comes initially from an initiative of the Ministry of Interior of Germany in 2021, to build the alternative to Office 365. The project was progressively transferred in 2025 to a state-owned organization, the ZenDis (https://zendis.de https://zendis.de), which oversees the global development of openDesk. The source code is mainly available on https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk, where you will find mirrors of every project which is bundled into openDesk (Nextcloud, Collabora, Element, Univention, XWiki, Jitsi, OpenXchange, CryptPad, OpenProject, …) There was also a couple public presentations about openDesk at FOSDEM during the past years : * In 2024 : https://archive.fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3274-opendesk-the-open-source-collaborative-suite/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3... * In 2025 : https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5572-opendesk-on-opencode-developing-a-secure-office-suite-and-sdlc/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5...
- evanjrowley 11mo ago
  I appreciate your comment. I'm thrilled to learn that CryptPad is part of the openDesk solution. >CryptPad was selected to join the German "Sovereign Workplace" project, now called openDesk. https://blog.cryptpad.org/2025/01/28/CryptPad-Funding-Status-January-2025/ https://blog.cryptpad.org/2025/01/28/CryptPad-Funding-Status... Many more details in this blog post from XWiki: https://xwiki.com/en/Blog/XWiki-CryptPad-knowledge-management-for-openDesk/ https://xwiki.com/en/Blog/XWiki-CryptPad-knowledge-managemen...
  - hda111 10mo ago
    CryptPad isn’t used for word processing or table calculations in openDesk. It’s super confusing how the tools were put together.
- fxtentacle 10mo ago
  I find it fascinating to see how much power Germany's "digital sovereignty" initiative has gained. In the beginning, it looked like yet another government thingy that nobody will use. But by now, they must be well above 100k government employees using it daily. Also, in case you missed that: StackIt is the AWS / G Cloud competitor by LIDL: https://www.stackit.de/en/ https://www.stackit.de/en/ It's the basebone for their app strategy with 100 mio+ client installs and about 500k employees.
testing22321 11mo ago
It seems likely the ICC will issue an arrest warrant for Trump in the coming years. I see all their recent moves as a signal they want to distance themselves from the US so they can actually issue that warrant.
- PenguinCoder 11mo ago
  There are quite a few reasons that should happen, but I won't hold my breath. And I that issuance really won't do anything worthwhile, except be a footnote in a history book.
  - mdhb 10mo ago
    I don’t think there is any way in hell the US is going to be welcome back on the world stage as a partner to any of their former allies again unless among many other things they put themselves under the ICCs jurisdiction.
- ncr100 10mo ago
  Trump's life-span is likely to not be a very large number of years from today given his age, and systemic health problems. SO I expect ICC would find other people, e.g. Marco Rubio and Pete Hegseth, who are helping to commit these areguably war-crimes in the Pacific and Caribbean seas, the missile strikes against civilian non-US vessels.
spwa4 11mo ago
Will it matter if the whitehouse realizes that they control accepting of email from the icc's domains for at least 80% of the worlds' email addresses?
- sixothree 11mo ago
  I think the more concerning thing is what happens when the trickle turns into a deluge
dang 11mo ago
Related ongoing thread: OpenDesk – a flexible all-in-one office suite for the public sector - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45838239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45838239 - Nov 2025 (19 comments)
amriksohata 11mo ago
ditches is a strong word here, we change software providers for different tooling all the time dependency on american corps is a bit weird, when they wont move away from windows just for one presendential term surely? trump will be out in X years. whats the point? some of these organisations are now more politically aligned than ever questioning their neutrality
anikom15 11mo ago
[flagged]
uvesten 11mo ago
So, reading the documentation in the [repo](https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk/-/blob/develop/README-EE.md https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk/...) it’s immediately made clear that you should use the Enterprise Edition for production use. (Since the German state is behind this, why not focus on totally free software for production use?) But what really surprised me are statements like this in the README: ” Nextcloud Enterprise: openDesk uses the Nextcloud Enterprise to the build Nextcloud container image for oD EE. The Nextcloud EE codebase might contain EE exclusive (longterm support) security patches, plus the Guard app, that is not publicly available, while it is AGPL-3.0 licensed. And COOL Controller container image and Helm chart: Source code and chart are using Mozilla Public License Version 2.0, but the source code is not public. It is provided to customers upon request. ” This, according with other paragraphs describing percentages of free and non-free code in certain components really makes me wonder…
- bayindirh 11mo ago
  It's a misconception that (A)GPL source code should be publicly available. GPL family mandates source code access to people who can access to the software itself. So as long as ICC gets the source code of the NextCloud EE and the Guard app, the GPL is fulfilled. This is how RedHat operates, and is not a violation of GPL. Also, this is how you can build a business around GPL. You only have to provide source code to people who buys your software, or you can sell support to it. Another example: Rock Solid curl [0]. [0]: https://rock-solid.curl.dev/ https://rock-solid.curl.dev/
  - drnick1 11mo ago
    But presumably, under the GPL, someone who obtained the source code, perhaps by paying for it, can freely publish that source code, and non-disclosure agreements are void.
    - bayindirh 11mo ago
      Yes. See Rocky Linux.
eeasss 11mo ago
All else aside, Microsoft 365 as an office suite screams for disruption. If you don't believe me try actually using their copilot and observe the poor integrations with core products such as Excel/Word/Powerpoint. Sorry for the offtopic but it really hurts for those of us who are forced by their CIO to use this thing.
- onemoresoop 11mo ago
  Yes, the product is terrible and easily beat out by a competitor. However, most people who are forced to use it is by dictate their own company CIO, hence MS has captive audiences.
lordofgibbons 11mo ago
I can't find a single screenshot of opendesk applications anywhere - including their own website. This is extremely strange.
baumschubser 10mo ago
Meanwhile in southern Germany. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bavaria-wants-to-move-to-Microsoft-cloud-by-year-end-11066929.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bavaria-wants-to-move-to-Micros...
- frm88 10mo ago
  Depressing. I wonder what convinced them of that decision considering national security and the price-tag of several billions. Also, Palantir. Do you think it's conservative attraction to the current U. S. administration?
jacquesm 10mo ago
Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the largest ones because nobody has the practical power to enforce the decisions of the court in case defendants are in places where the court is not recognized. To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit.
- dylan604 10mo ago
  > To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued there too. From Clinton on back, I admit I just wasn't paying attention to those kinds of issues.
  - aidenn0 10mo ago
    My understanding is that most of the post-cold-war targeted killings of dubious legality happened after 9/11; wikipedia claims that there were US norms against "targeted killings" from '76 to '01. Certainly the CIA did some shady stuff post 1976, but the President at least maintained the appearance of not knowing about them.
  - ebbi 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - lmm 10mo ago
      I'm all for calling him out for that, but none of that sounds like a clear-cut ICC crime.
ebbi 10mo ago
Good. It is not befitting of the ICC to be using tools, and thereby funding, a company that has been helping states carrying out war crimes.
ncr100 10mo ago
Good move for ICC. Especially since USA, home country of Microsoft corporation, is exhibiting military junta techniques. USA is killing citizens of foreign countries, weekly via the "U.S. military conducting missile strikes against boats in the Caribbean and Pacific claiming they are shipping drugs". These non-military victims, citizens, being killed intentionally are a violation of human rights.
- throw10920 10mo ago
  > non-military victims These people are members of international drug trafficking cartels that are highly armed and organized and kill thousands of people directly (and tens of thousands indirectly) every year. They are military combatants actively waging war against the US, and this is self-defense. The US has been waiting for the host countries of these cartels to stop them for decades now, at the cost of millions of lives. To defend their behavior and claim that the US shouldn't defend its own citizens from foreign military powers is absolutely disgusting.
  - ncr100 10mo ago
    > They are military combatants actively waging war against the US That is false. They're civilian. They are not proven to be "foreign military powers". And in the case I'm misunderstanding what is written, above, perhaps this is a semantics issue? I'd suggest perhaps "militarized" .. I agree the direct/indirect death is true, deriving from these peoples' behavior. That in and of itself does not make them a military, but certainly a threat. And legally there is a due-process for handling that threat - missile strikes are not legal, here. And there are lots of threats, with many ways that are appropriate to handle. For example, lots of people kill lots of other people, too - e.g. Trump killed 400,000 of us in his first term (mis-led us around COVID risks / mitigation), and has killed 600,000 foreigners in his second term (USAID sudden shut-down w/o replacement), that makes a MILLION DEAD ... ... given that, does this mean Trump deserves to be physically attacked by our military's missile command? I'd say "no, he should face legal action for his predictably hazardous mis-leadership." - https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/new-revelations-emerge-on-how-donald-trump-killed-400000-coronavirus-pandemic/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/new-revelations... - https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/the-shutdown-of-usaid-has-already-killed-hundreds-of-thousands https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary... ==> "As of November 5th, it estimated that U.S.A.I.D.’s dismantling has already caused the deaths of six hundred thousand people, two-thirds of them children."
zie 10mo ago
I wonder if this will be like Germany's rush to run Linux across their entire fed. govt and it will only last a few years. Germany gave up eventually. I wonder if the ICC will too, or if it will actually stick this time around. I hope it sticks, but I'm not holding my breath.
Surac 10mo ago
I find it hard to compare o365 to OpenDesk. O365 is just a bag of programs using vaguely the same UX concept and openDesk is a full integrated environment. I myself changed to Nextcloud with integrated collab office and will never go back to MS

646 points by vincvinc 11mo ago

Maybe it's time for UN to start rolling out their own global linux distro / mobile OS, Cue UN getting sanctioned in 3...2... But jokes aside seems like a useful global good.

blackoil 10mo ago
Isnt UN most bureaucratic organization possible. Would be funny to see all nations discussing/voting on features in next version.

pfortuny 11mo ago

There seems to be no spreadsheet…

petepete 11mo ago

I can't see any links to repos on the website, is it actually open? https://www.opendesk.eu https://www.opendesk.eu

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
hwartig 11mo ago
https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://opencode.de/en/software/open-desk-1317 https://opencode.de/en/software/open-desk-1317
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
magicalhippo 11mo ago
A bit convoluted but there was an openCode link at the bottom which eventually leads you to the repository: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk
mkromkamp 11mo ago
https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk
namegulf 11mo ago
Thanks for the link, looks like they offer the whole stack of features and more.
aitchnyu 10mo ago
Is there a Docker Compose file to stand up all the individual apps?

velcrovan 11mo ago

Open Desk (since the article doesn't link): https://www.opendesk.eu/en https://www.opendesk.eu/en Does anyone have any experience using it?

clickety_clack 11mo ago
I’d love to see pictures. I’d love to drop MS/Google docs for something I can control myself.
- juvoly 11mo ago
  But would you be willing to pay for it? Would your company/organization be willing to move?
  - simooooo 11mo ago
    Absolutely not
- thisislife2 11mo ago
  Have you tried LibreOffice ( https://www.libreoffice.org/ https://www.libreoffice.org/ ) or OnlyOffice ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/desktop https://www.onlyoffice.com/desktop )? Both are pretty decent, and free, and also have commercial versions.
  - ffsm8 11mo ago
    MS365/Google docs is something entirely different to the old desktop office suites It's a collaboration tool, with synced storage and file management etc The overlap of a Venn diagram between users of these software is not very large - though there is some (overlap).
    - thisislife2 11mo ago
      And both the products I mentioned also support online collaboration and storage. See LibreOffice Online ( https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ ), OnlyOffice Workspace ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/workspace https://www.onlyoffice.com/workspace ) and OnlyOffice Enterprise ( https://www.onlyoffice.com/docs-enterprise https://www.onlyoffice.com/docs-enterprise ). I can't comment how feature compatible these are but alternatives do exist and that's good new for us. (Note that openDesk is based on a fork of LibreOffice Online, which is a commercial variant for those who don't want to bother implementing everything themselves).

bix6 11mo ago

No Excel replacement? :/

opencl 11mo ago
The document editing portion just uses Collabora which is based on Libreoffice.
dybber 11mo ago
From openDesk website: > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats
- turtlebits 11mo ago
  It's missing from the list of their products though :( https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product
  - brutal_chaos_ 10mo ago
    Take a look at the Document Management section on that page > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats.
  - brutal_chaos_ 10mo ago
    See the Socument Management section from the link you provided > Create, edit and share documents, spreadsheets and presentations with full support for all major file formats.
erk__ 11mo ago
The Excel replacement they use is this one: https://www.collaboraonline.com/calc/ https://www.collaboraonline.com/calc/

pjmlp 11mo ago

After Microsoft left politics mess up with their customer base something like that was to be expected.

bhouston 11mo ago
Microsoft has to follow US sanctions, even if they are misplaced. This isn't a choice on Microsoft's part here. The ICC was applauded in the US in the when it went after Russia but when it goes after Israel it is sanctioned. It unfortunately hard to be impartial, like the ICC is, when it comes to international war crimes. The big players want you to play towards their favourites and only hold their enemies accountable. The US is also sanctioning Palestinian human rights groups, and kicking them off of US platforms like YouTube, because they make Israel look bad: https://theintercept.com/2025/11/04/youtube-google-israel-palestine-human-rights-censorship/ https://theintercept.com/2025/11/04/youtube-google-israel-pa...
- sdoering 11mo ago
  Exactly what the big German corporations (as well as Ford by the way) did in the 1930s.
  - happymellon 11mo ago
    And IBM...
- reubenmorais 11mo ago
  Nobody has to do anything, least of all massive corporations with country-sized revenues. It's /always/ a choice to comply or to put up a fight and deal with the consequences.
- guiriduro 11mo ago
  MS could always refocus themselves as a global company (in the legal rather than marketing-only sense), and move their HQ out of the US, then there could be no Trump tantrums affecting other countries, the worse that could happen would be some sanctions on what would then be their in-country US affiliate, with no ability to affect their other global operations whatsoever. Why haven't they followed this approach? Haven't lost enough customers yet?

bawolff 11mo ago

I think the bigger question is why they were using microsoft products in the first place. USA has been very hostile to the ICC under trump, but its not exactly a huge shift, bush was also incredibly hostile. It seems borderline incompetent to use a microsoft cloud offering given the political situation. Not to mention given the type of work they do, seems like hosting stuff off site at all is a bad plan.

lysace 11mo ago
USA has been very hostile to the ICC since way before Trump. The ICC was created in 1998 when Bill Clinton was president of the USA. He never ratified the Rome treaty. And then GW, Obama, Trump and Biden didn't either. Very few americans batted an eye as far as I could tell. Your are after all by definition exceptional. (/s)
- chvid 11mo ago
  No one thought the US would get this insane.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - bawolff 11mo ago
    I dont know, when bush threatened to invade the netherlands over the ICC, that was pretty insane, and in some ways worse than sanctions.
    - chvid 11mo ago
      Sure. But no one thought it, or anything like it, would actually happened.
  - perihelions 11mo ago
    > "The American Service-Members' Protection Act, known informally as the Hague Invasion Act[1] [sic] (ASPA, Title 2 of Pub. L. 107–206 (text) (PDF), H.R. 4775, 116 Stat. 820, enacted August 2, 2002) is" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

tptacek 11mo ago

Does someone have an English language link for this? https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=english-language%20site%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

perihelions 11mo ago
https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_criminal_court_ditches_office/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_crimina... ("International Criminal Court kicks Microsoft Office to the curb / "Rough justice? Redmond out as Germany's openDesk judged a better fit" (Oct. 31))
Elfener 11mo ago
https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_criminal_court_ditches_office/ https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/31/international_crimina... (was submitted to HN 3 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797515)
firefax 10mo ago
Firefox translate seems to work fine on it.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

Elfener 11mo ago

It's actually not called Microsoft 365, but "the Microsoft 365 Copilot app" (not to be confused with Microsoft Copilot (a slop generator with the same logo))

iammjm 10mo ago
It IS called Microsoft 365
- Elfener 10mo ago
  No, they've renamed it due to "now with the power of AI": https://www.office.com/ https://www.office.com/ Edit: and actually, just recently it was even more direct with it: https://web.archive.org/web/20251105125410/https://www.office.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251105125410/https://www.offic...

bonyt 11mo ago

Looks like openDesk uses Collabora Online, which is itself based on libreoffice online - web based libreoffice. https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product#document-management https://www.opendesk.eu/en/product#document-management ("Collabora Online powers openDesk with a robust office suite designed for efficient teamwork and secure document editing.") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collabora_Online https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collabora_Online ("Collabora Online (often abbreviated as COOL) is an open-source online office suite developed by Collabora, based on LibreOffice Online, the web-based edition of the LibreOffice office suite.")

trelane 11mo ago
More than that--Collabora is a major (maybe the biggest) contributor to LibreOffice.

slwvx 11mo ago

The lack of anything at all on the roadmap page [1] and lack of a link to their code repository on a blog post touting their open-source cred [2] does not build confidence. I found their code repo link in the comments here, after not finding it easily on their site. EDIT: to be clear, I'm all for open source software, and for more options to tools from big tech firms. [1] https://www.opendesk.eu/en/roadmap https://www.opendesk.eu/en/roadmap [2] https://www.opendesk.eu/en/blog/open-source-software-trust https://www.opendesk.eu/en/blog/open-source-software-trust

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
Lapel2742 11mo ago
At least they seem to be actively working on it: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk They have some real users too. I know of some out of my head. According to ChatGPT: - Robert Koch Institute (RKI) – entered a contract on 11 June 2025 to use openDesk as the technical basis for the “Agora” platform for public‑health authorities. - BWI GmbH – the IT infrastructure provider for the German armed forces (Bundeswehr); signed a framework contract for openDesk. - Bundesamt für Seeschifffahrt und Hydrographie – also mentioned as an early adopter of openDesk. - Föderale IT‑Kooperation (FITKO) – listed as a user in the EU OSS Catalogue entry for openDesk. I think I read that some German states use the software too. You never know what will happen in the long run but the solution will probably be maintained for some time given it's backing by the federal government of Germany.
- robertlagrant 11mo ago
  > Robert Koch Institute (RKI) – entered a contract on 11 June 2025 to use openDesk as the technical basis for the “Agora” platform for public‑health authorities. Wow - I was just thinking this would be good. Here in the UK Microsoft are slowly taking over healthcare with their terrible Dynamics 365 platform, and some competition would be really nice.
jraph 11mo ago

greatgib 11mo ago

[flagged]

evolve2k 11mo ago

Lawyers historically are notoriously linked to Microsoft and its formats as a somewhat unintentional industry side standard. Moves like this hearten me as for certain lawyers the formats and standards they now will be expected to follow has just shifted, towards open source no less.

mikestew 11mo ago
I remember when lawyers historically used WordPerfect for the same reasons. Now, I don’t know the details of how that industry shifted (MS dominance and WP shitting the bed with their GUI versions would be my guess), but it shows that it is possible.
- jeffwask 11mo ago
  I did MS Word support in the long long ago during its transition to dominance. There was nothing worse than getting a call from a lawyer who was forced off Word Perfect.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > a lawyer who was forced off Word Perfect My lawyers at big firms still use it, though they export .doc(x).
    - mikestew 11mo ago
      But how are they exporting such a modern document format? Holee crap, because it's still being sold an updated! https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ https://www.wordperfect.com/en/ And the suite includes Quattro Pro, for those that are itchin' for that spreadsheet-flavored blast from the past. If I didn't already have the Apple suite on my Mac (which does all I need out of an office suite), I'd spend the $50 for home/student version just for the lulz.
      - p_ing 10mo ago
        https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/professional-edition/ https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/professional-edition/ Look at those screenshots! It's still a Windows 95 look'n'feel (which some HN users might enjoy).

vincvinc 11mo ago

Related: "IMPOSING SANCTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT" (white house, feb 2025) https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/imposing-sanctions-on-the-international-criminal-court/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/impo... Microsoft admits in French court it can't keep EU data safe from US authorities (jul 2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45822902

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
yupyupyups 11mo ago
>Microsoft admits in French court it can't keep EU data safe from US authorities Snowden leaked that fact before Microsoft made the admission. But it's good that it's coming from them officially nonetheless.
- tokai 11mo ago
  It kind felt like the ramifications of Snowden's leak were so wast that everyone just chose to forget about it.
  - realusername 11mo ago
    There's definitely a political game of pretending that the US clouds are somehow compatible with GDPR.
    - jojobas 10mo ago
      They are most likely compatible until a national security letter arrives. An American company then has to choose which law to comply with, and it's an easy choice.
      - immibis 10mo ago
        That's what makes them incompatible. But companies can be a lot shadier than we give them credit for. Like, remember that "wink payment" contract between Google and Israel? If Google knew what they were doing, they accepted the contract to do the illegal thing, so they'd sell their product and get money, but they were planning to simply not do the illegal thing, breaking the contract (the customer would never know and if they somehow did, you can't stop using a cloud on a dime) but not breaking any laws. If Microsoft knows what they're doing, they'll accept contracts from EU customers that say "we will never give your data to US authorities", they break it immediately, don't tell the customer and the customer never finds out. Alternatively, they can give the US government a bunch of nothing, in order to comply with the EU customer contract, and pretend this is all the data the customer had on their account. I doubt this will happen though.

caubin 11mo ago

Hei hei, I'm working for the XWiki and CryptPad projects, which are integrated in openDesk. Here are a couple links / infos that can be interesting to understand the context of openDesk. The openDesk project comes initially from an initiative of the Ministry of Interior of Germany in 2021, to build the alternative to Office 365. The project was progressively transferred in 2025 to a state-owned organization, the ZenDis (https://zendis.de https://zendis.de), which oversees the global development of openDesk. The source code is mainly available on https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk, where you will find mirrors of every project which is bundled into openDesk (Nextcloud, Collabora, Element, Univention, XWiki, Jitsi, OpenXchange, CryptPad, OpenProject, …) There was also a couple public presentations about openDesk at FOSDEM during the past years : * In 2024 : https://archive.fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3274-opendesk-the-open-source-collaborative-suite/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-3... * In 2025 : https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5572-opendesk-on-opencode-developing-a-secure-office-suite-and-sdlc/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5...

evanjrowley 11mo ago
I appreciate your comment. I'm thrilled to learn that CryptPad is part of the openDesk solution. >CryptPad was selected to join the German "Sovereign Workplace" project, now called openDesk. https://blog.cryptpad.org/2025/01/28/CryptPad-Funding-Status-January-2025/ https://blog.cryptpad.org/2025/01/28/CryptPad-Funding-Status... Many more details in this blog post from XWiki: https://xwiki.com/en/Blog/XWiki-CryptPad-knowledge-management-for-openDesk/ https://xwiki.com/en/Blog/XWiki-CryptPad-knowledge-managemen...
- hda111 10mo ago
  CryptPad isn’t used for word processing or table calculations in openDesk. It’s super confusing how the tools were put together.
fxtentacle 10mo ago
I find it fascinating to see how much power Germany's "digital sovereignty" initiative has gained. In the beginning, it looked like yet another government thingy that nobody will use. But by now, they must be well above 100k government employees using it daily. Also, in case you missed that: StackIt is the AWS / G Cloud competitor by LIDL: https://www.stackit.de/en/ https://www.stackit.de/en/ It's the basebone for their app strategy with 100 mio+ client installs and about 500k employees.

testing22321 11mo ago

It seems likely the ICC will issue an arrest warrant for Trump in the coming years. I see all their recent moves as a signal they want to distance themselves from the US so they can actually issue that warrant.

PenguinCoder 11mo ago
There are quite a few reasons that should happen, but I won't hold my breath. And I that issuance really won't do anything worthwhile, except be a footnote in a history book.
- mdhb 10mo ago
  I don’t think there is any way in hell the US is going to be welcome back on the world stage as a partner to any of their former allies again unless among many other things they put themselves under the ICCs jurisdiction.
ncr100 10mo ago
Trump's life-span is likely to not be a very large number of years from today given his age, and systemic health problems. SO I expect ICC would find other people, e.g. Marco Rubio and Pete Hegseth, who are helping to commit these areguably war-crimes in the Pacific and Caribbean seas, the missile strikes against civilian non-US vessels.

spwa4 11mo ago

Will it matter if the whitehouse realizes that they control accepting of email from the icc's domains for at least 80% of the worlds' email addresses?

sixothree 11mo ago
I think the more concerning thing is what happens when the trickle turns into a deluge

dang 11mo ago

Related ongoing thread: OpenDesk – a flexible all-in-one office suite for the public sector - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45838239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45838239 - Nov 2025 (19 comments)

amriksohata 11mo ago

ditches is a strong word here, we change software providers for different tooling all the time dependency on american corps is a bit weird, when they wont move away from windows just for one presendential term surely? trump will be out in X years. whats the point? some of these organisations are now more politically aligned than ever questioning their neutrality

anikom15 11mo ago

[flagged]

uvesten 11mo ago

So, reading the documentation in the [repo](https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk/-/blob/develop/README-EE.md https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/opendesk/deployment/opendesk/...) it’s immediately made clear that you should use the Enterprise Edition for production use. (Since the German state is behind this, why not focus on totally free software for production use?) But what really surprised me are statements like this in the README: ” Nextcloud Enterprise: openDesk uses the Nextcloud Enterprise to the build Nextcloud container image for oD EE. The Nextcloud EE codebase might contain EE exclusive (longterm support) security patches, plus the Guard app, that is not publicly available, while it is AGPL-3.0 licensed. And COOL Controller container image and Helm chart: Source code and chart are using Mozilla Public License Version 2.0, but the source code is not public. It is provided to customers upon request. ” This, according with other paragraphs describing percentages of free and non-free code in certain components really makes me wonder…

bayindirh 11mo ago
It's a misconception that (A)GPL source code should be publicly available. GPL family mandates source code access to people who can access to the software itself. So as long as ICC gets the source code of the NextCloud EE and the Guard app, the GPL is fulfilled. This is how RedHat operates, and is not a violation of GPL. Also, this is how you can build a business around GPL. You only have to provide source code to people who buys your software, or you can sell support to it. Another example: Rock Solid curl [0]. [0]: https://rock-solid.curl.dev/ https://rock-solid.curl.dev/
- drnick1 11mo ago
  But presumably, under the GPL, someone who obtained the source code, perhaps by paying for it, can freely publish that source code, and non-disclosure agreements are void.
  - bayindirh 11mo ago
    Yes. See Rocky Linux.

eeasss 11mo ago

All else aside, Microsoft 365 as an office suite screams for disruption. If you don't believe me try actually using their copilot and observe the poor integrations with core products such as Excel/Word/Powerpoint. Sorry for the offtopic but it really hurts for those of us who are forced by their CIO to use this thing.

onemoresoop 11mo ago
Yes, the product is terrible and easily beat out by a competitor. However, most people who are forced to use it is by dictate their own company CIO, hence MS has captive audiences.

lordofgibbons 11mo ago

I can't find a single screenshot of opendesk applications anywhere - including their own website. This is extremely strange.

baumschubser 10mo ago

Meanwhile in southern Germany. https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bavaria-wants-to-move-to-Microsoft-cloud-by-year-end-11066929.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bavaria-wants-to-move-to-Micros...

frm88 10mo ago
Depressing. I wonder what convinced them of that decision considering national security and the price-tag of several billions. Also, Palantir. Do you think it's conservative attraction to the current U. S. administration?

jacquesm 10mo ago

Rightly so. They should have never used it in the first place. What with the US not recognizing the court it always made very little sense to me that they would rely on the infrastructure components to be supplied by the USA. The latest sanctions are just another step in something that was already in motion from day #1. The world order at the highest level relies on the nations themselves to behave, especially the largest ones because nobody has the practical power to enforce the decisions of the court in case defendants are in places where the court is not recognized. To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit.

dylan604 10mo ago
> To USA not recognizing the court has always shown that they don't care about the crimes they commit. I'd nitpick the "don't care" part. To me, it's that they do care precisely because they know they are guilty. I think Trump is guilty for the boats being shot. Obama guilty for the drone strikes. W guilty for well, the whole shit show. Didn't really pay attention to Biden, but I'd assume drone strikes continued there too. From Clinton on back, I admit I just wasn't paying attention to those kinds of issues.
- aidenn0 10mo ago
  My understanding is that most of the post-cold-war targeted killings of dubious legality happened after 9/11; wikipedia claims that there were US norms against "targeted killings" from '76 to '01. Certainly the CIA did some shady stuff post 1976, but the President at least maintained the appearance of not knowing about them.
- ebbi 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - lmm 10mo ago
    I'm all for calling him out for that, but none of that sounds like a clear-cut ICC crime.

ebbi 10mo ago

Good. It is not befitting of the ICC to be using tools, and thereby funding, a company that has been helping states carrying out war crimes.

ncr100 10mo ago

Good move for ICC. Especially since USA, home country of Microsoft corporation, is exhibiting military junta techniques. USA is killing citizens of foreign countries, weekly via the "U.S. military conducting missile strikes against boats in the Caribbean and Pacific claiming they are shipping drugs". These non-military victims, citizens, being killed intentionally are a violation of human rights.

throw10920 10mo ago
> non-military victims These people are members of international drug trafficking cartels that are highly armed and organized and kill thousands of people directly (and tens of thousands indirectly) every year. They are military combatants actively waging war against the US, and this is self-defense. The US has been waiting for the host countries of these cartels to stop them for decades now, at the cost of millions of lives. To defend their behavior and claim that the US shouldn't defend its own citizens from foreign military powers is absolutely disgusting.
- ncr100 10mo ago
  > They are military combatants actively waging war against the US That is false. They're civilian. They are not proven to be "foreign military powers". And in the case I'm misunderstanding what is written, above, perhaps this is a semantics issue? I'd suggest perhaps "militarized" .. I agree the direct/indirect death is true, deriving from these peoples' behavior. That in and of itself does not make them a military, but certainly a threat. And legally there is a due-process for handling that threat - missile strikes are not legal, here. And there are lots of threats, with many ways that are appropriate to handle. For example, lots of people kill lots of other people, too - e.g. Trump killed 400,000 of us in his first term (mis-led us around COVID risks / mitigation), and has killed 600,000 foreigners in his second term (USAID sudden shut-down w/o replacement), that makes a MILLION DEAD ... ... given that, does this mean Trump deserves to be physically attacked by our military's missile command? I'd say "no, he should face legal action for his predictably hazardous mis-leadership." - https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/new-revelations-emerge-on-how-donald-trump-killed-400000-coronavirus-pandemic/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/11/new-revelations... - https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/the-shutdown-of-usaid-has-already-killed-hundreds-of-thousands https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary... ==> "As of November 5th, it estimated that U.S.A.I.D.’s dismantling has already caused the deaths of six hundred thousand people, two-thirds of them children."

zie 10mo ago

I wonder if this will be like Germany's rush to run Linux across their entire fed. govt and it will only last a few years. Germany gave up eventually. I wonder if the ICC will too, or if it will actually stick this time around. I hope it sticks, but I'm not holding my breath.

Surac 10mo ago

I find it hard to compare o365 to OpenDesk. O365 is just a bag of programs using vaguely the same UX concept and openDesk is a full integrated environment. I myself changed to Nextcloud with integrated collab office and will never go back to MS