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Here in Switzerland children start walking to school at around 5-years. Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. If a parent escorts their children to sc

Here in Switzerland children start walking to school at around 5-years. Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. If a parent escorts their children to school they'll be told not to. If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. And if they continue (I never heard of it getting to this stage) they may be fined. It's funny in the morning. One child walks to another child's home then they walk to another child's home and so on until you have a big group of kids walking to school together. In Austria they call it something like a children train. Twice a year you see the children practicing crossing streets. The police are out at the intersections and show the children how to do it. It's very cute. Also how to ride bicycles properly.

MrWiffles 13d ago
This is the way.
jeffbee 13d ago
Pedibus. So civilized. People in California don't believe half the things I tell them about life in Switzerland, such as "if you try to drive your kid to school the cops will chastise you" and "if you drive 40 in a school zone you'll automatically get a year in jail" and, of course, "gas is nine bucks".
- teekert 13d ago
  The US is extremely car focused, which they often don't really realize. Things that are normal here (like everybody has a bike) conflicts with their cyclers vs drivers culture. Such a distinction simply does not exist here. Instead we have roads that are red with signs "Cars are guests". Or indeed city centers where cars aren't allowed. When I go to the US I'm often surprised that you can't get to things that are only a km away by foot because a road is blocking you, no way to cross it.
  - WhatIsDukkha 13d ago
    The US has very low standards for its lifestyle. We're told we are number ONE in everything but in fact its usually 40 or 20 when you actually go look at things that matter. We never really notice because we think filling a big house in the suburbs with garbage from Costco is living the dream.
    - tedggh 13d ago
      As a naturalized American who lived in 3 other countries including two in Europe and who travels often all over the world, married to a European, etc I must say the US has its perks and it’s definitely in my top 5 countries to live. I lived mostly in the south and the east coast so I don’t have a full picture of the US as a resident. But it’s the same in Europe, living in Berlin is very different than living in Sicily, even Milan is very different than Sicily being the same country. So to be fair the US should be compared to Europe not to a particular country. The car culture in the US I think is fine because the country is built around it, the interstate system is pretty good and gas is cheap. I do like road trips very much, at my own pace not having to worry about train/flight schedules. In Europe taking long family road trips by car as we do in the US would be prohibited and even stupid in the eyes of many Europeans. I also like that you can talk to Americans everywhere and get to know people. In Europe you start talking to a stranger they look at you like you went crazy. Being social is part of having a good quality of life too, so the US ranks pretty high there.
      - Gud 13d ago
        So in the beginning of your paragraph you say it's "very different" depending on where you are in Europe, but towards the end, you generalise the entire continent. I travel all over the world for work(Though mostly Europe) and my experience has been that Europe is a very diverse place. Currently outside London where you can absolutely chat with random strangers(I'm from Sweden, so obviously I don't).
        teekert 12d ago
        Yeah bit strange remark. Many people I know drive thousands of km for their summer holiday.
  - OtomotO 13d ago
    The last time I was in the US - a couple of decades ago, I admit - people were aghast that we walked to a store just a few hundred meters away. 3 people stopped and asked whether they can drive us somewhere... I mean, super friendly people, but... it's just a few hundred meters, come on! You were the wild west, once!
    - YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago
      Well, everybody rode their horse everywhere in the Wild West.
    - megagpt1 13d ago
      This happened to me in Germany. To be fair, I was walking 10km on a rural road with two suitcases and no sidewalk.
    - rainsford 13d ago
      To be fair, there are an embarrassingly large number of places in the US where safely walking to a store a few hundred meters away would be very difficult at best.
    - chrismorgan 13d ago
      My mother tells much the same from when we Australians were in Denver for five months in 1996 about walking a kilometre to school. Also mild astonishment at ideas like baking cakes not from a packet mix. Mind you, there weren’t many who would walk to school like that in Australia, and the number has continued to dwindle. But there were some.
  - VBprogrammer 13d ago
    On holiday in the Florida we walked to the gated entrance to the community to ask whether delivery drivers got access or we needed to pick it up at the gate. The way they looked at us, you would think we had two heads for arriving on foot.
    - teekert 13d ago
      I once walked into a drive through in Texas (Galveston) with a group of scientists there for a conference (because main restaurant was closed), we almost got shot (no not really but people felt very very threatened and threatened us)!
    - mrguyorama 13d ago
      In Florida gated communities, the standard transportation method is individual overpriced golf karts.
    - FireBeyond 13d ago
      I got into an argument with a security guard at a gated community who tried to demand we give him a name, address, and "what's going on?" before he'd let us in. Fixed that when I asked if he personally called 911 and when he said no, "So, before we make this a lot more formal, are you understanding that you are now obstructing emergency services personnel in the performance of duty?"
- xattt 13d ago
  Our school started a chaperoned bicycle bus, and it’s enabled a number of kids who live 3-5 km away to engage in active transportation once a week that would have otherwise been unable to.
- tsunamifury 13d ago
  [flagged]
alasano 13d ago
That's lovely. Also all the heartwarming ways things work in Japan where kids get a lot of autonomy and live their own little lives on the way to school, among other things.
- niwtsol 13d ago
  I went to Japan a few years ago - I saw a lot of beautiful things, but the image of schoolchildren in their yellow hats on the train system is one of the most memorable/replayed in my mind.
Foobar8568 13d ago
> If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. It depends of the town/location and region. In our town, police had to be involved several times due to different issues with creeps targeting 12yo or less. Edit:And I forgot, as it's Switzerland, police moved only because parents were accompanying their kids and almost done justice by themselves. Protecting creeps is a national sport here too.
tolerance 13d ago
> Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. If a parent escorts their children to school they'll be told not to. If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. And if they continue (I never heard of it getting to this stage) they may be fined. Can't help but think that this is just swinging things in the opposite direction.
- WA 13d ago
  No, it’s to counteract the desire of parents dropping of their kids in front of school with their car and causing traffic jams.
  - microtherion 13d ago
    Exactly. It’s a collective action problem — every car dropping off a kid incrementally endangers the kids walking to school, so if there is no enforcement whatsoever, we’d end up with everybody driving, and a situation worse than in US schools (because Swiss schools were largely not constructed with drop off zones in mind, and retrofitting them would be difficult with our land use patterns).
  - neaden 13d ago
    The original comment makes it sound like you'd get a police visit for walking with your kid to school though, which is hopefully a misunderstanding.
    - jeffbee 13d ago
      In my experience the kids form a peloton walking to school but there are adults walking with the youngest such groups. E.g. this website (never been to this town, just seems representative). https://pskerzers.ch/pedibus/ https://pskerzers.ch/pedibus/
- bestouff 13d ago
  Sure. In a good way.
- 13d ago
OtomotO 13d ago
When I was a kid, about 3 decades ago, walking to school was a blast. I had so much fun going there and going back on foot. So much that when I was a teenager and my mother drove by my school one day and decided to pick me up, I was super unhappy, because I wanted to walk the 20 or so minutes with my friends to the bus. When I had 9 hour school, I would need to wait 50 Minutes for a bus... or I walked the 5 kilometers home. I always choose to walk, even when it rained, because I was faster and I loved it! I am curious how it will be with my daughter, once she goes to school. Because today this is totally frowned upon. But I will not play taxi for her all the time. Occasionally, sure. But CERTAINLY not every day.
profsummergig 13d ago
It's a high trust homogenous society without lots of different groups with all kinds of grievances about the past, present and the future. And it's probably rural, where everyone knows each other. When I read the headline, I sided with the mother. But a five-year old having to cross four roads in total to and from (with vehicles going up 25 mph legally, and who knows how fast illegally) is a bit much.
- GeoAtreides 13d ago
  >homogenous society this is a racist dogwhistle. _Homogeneous_ is code for racial or ethnic purity.
  - eudamoniac 13d ago
    It's okay to acknowledge that diversity has some downsides, and homogeny some upsides. We can be intellectually honest enough to admit this, right?
    - GeoAtreides 13d ago
      are you asking if it's ok to acknowledge the upsides of racial purity? the things i read on hn...
      - eudamoniac 13d ago
        It isn't ok to acknowledge that racial (cultural) homogeny has any benefit to a society whatsoever?
        YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago
        Wait. Is it racial or is it cultural? There's a difference there. Do you believe it's possible to have cultural homogeneity without having racial homogeneity? Btw I think you're wrong: people can be extremely xenophobic with the folks from the next village over who are their cousins thrice removed. It's nothing to do with race or culture, just who's in the in-group and who's in the out-group, and what those are depends on a myriad of factors that "race" and "culture" are only convenient, but inaccurate, proxies for. Another example: Greek football fans from Athens will literally murder their counterparts from Thessaloniki, and they're all just as Greek as each other [1]. You just have to draw a line in the sand and people on either side of it will start throwing stones at each other. __________________ [1] Culturally of course. We're not a "race". Tiny little rant but with Nolan's Odyssey, there were the usual complains about Helen being played by a black woman etc. and people all over the internet were having fights about what real Greeks look like. Oh they have fair hair and light skin. No they have dark hair and olive skin. And so on. The truth is that most Greek families are like mine: one parent is fair-haired and light skinned (my dad: blond hair, green eyes, goes red in the sun; his mom: blond hair, blue eyes, skin like yogurt) and the other is dark-haired and dark skinned (my mom: brown hair, brown eyes, goes brown in the sun; her mom: black hair, black eyes, never sat in the sun). But stereotypes persist so me and one of my friends were asked how come we're both fair-haired with light-coloured eyes when true Greeks are brown and at the same time a friend recommended to me a concealer that was three tones darker than my actual colour even though I was standing right there in front of her eyes with my pasty-white skin. Race is not what it's made out to be. End rant.
NoGravitas 13d ago
> One child walks to another child's home then they walk to another child's home and so on until you have a big group of kids walking to school together. That's what I did when I was in first grade. Suburban US, late 70s. Lived at the end of a cul-de-sac. Met with the other kid who lived at the end of the cul-de-sac, walked to the house of a kid who lived at the other end of the street. Then the three of us got on the sidewalk of the main road and walked to the school.
stephencanon 13d ago
Our neighborhood in the northeast US does the same (minus the hard prohibition against parents going with them). Our 5 and 9 year old walk to school daily, usually picking up the neighbors' kids (6, 6, 10, 9, 7, 7) along the way. If we happen to be free sometimes an adult will walk with them, sometimes we start walking with them and then stop for coffee with a neighbor while the kids continue on, sometimes they go by themselves. I can't imagine living somewhere where that was prohibited.
Aurornis 13d ago
Young children also walk to the elementary schools near me. When I’m at the park with my kids, it’s common to see other very young kids show up alone on their bikes or on foot to play in the park. This is in the US. I think international readers see these headlines and assume the entire US is like this, but the reason the story is a headline is because it’s a dumb sentence. This is going to get appealed. The US is a big country. The state this happened in has a similar population to the entire country of Switzerland. Laws and cultural norms vary across the country, but this story is unusual even for the location it happened in. That’s why it’s a news story.
- gogobio 13d ago
  I'm also in the US, in a city in a populous state and I've never seen that, as a matter of fact it counts as child abuse in my state as well. Why don't you mention where you live and what state you see this within? Is it because what you're seeing is anecdotal in some particularly rich area? I can assure you leaving children under 16 unsupervised is illegal in most states.
  - kxrm 13d ago
    > I can assure you leaving children under 16 unsupervised is illegal in most states. This is absolutely untrue. Only 3 states have an age specific standard. Most states set no specific limits by age. The bigger problem is the vagueness of the laws we do have in place around child neglect which allows a cop or neighbor to be the biggest determining factor of whether you get a knock on your door.
  - hex4def6 13d ago
    Citation needed. A kid that's 15.5 yrs old is more than able to be unsupervised for a few hours. c'mon. The only state that I can find with the oldest age defined is 14 in Illinois (but it's defined as "for an unreasonable period of time"). Most states otherwise don't define it (~38 states), and of the ones that do, it's between 6-10.
  - illiac786 13d ago
    It is actually telling you didn’t even check this. It’s because you are so 100% convinced it’s true. This shows how bad the situation is in some places.
microtherion 13d ago
Yes, I’m Swiss and walked to school starting around 5. I was hit by a car (due to bad judgment on my part) on the way back from school at 6, though, so it’s not all roses. I also pulled one of my sons twice from the same pond around that age, so I would not necessarily be super comfortable trusting them around those attractive nuisances, even though I’m on board with the “let them walk to school” policy. It’s a difficult balancing act.
- arcade79 10d ago
  > I also pulled one of my sons twice from the same pond around that age Norwegian here. I rescued a girl one year older than me from a small stream/brook that had grown a bit larger due to rainwater when I was 7 years old. Also walked to/from school alone from when I was 6 years old. I remember parents were allowed to walk us to school the first week, and then we were supposed to get there on our own. About 1km walk. I'm very, very pro "let them walk to school on their own", and my daughter has walked to school on her own since she was 6 or 7.
Huarache1 13d ago
Parents and Adults in America are often afraid. Sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not. There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely, and it could be dangerous to even try to walk in areas that barely have walkable streets. Europe can let this happen since their city planning is much better for people who either walk or bike to different areas. Some, like in Switzerland, even have extremely low crime rates as well. Still, a sentencing seems rough for letting a kid walk, in a probably safe area.
- mcphage 13d ago
  > There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely This is very much not true. If there are any urban areas that have too much crime for kids to walk freely, it's a vanishingly small percentage, and certainly does not include gated communities in Williamsburg, VA. GTFOH with that nonsense.
  - Huarache1 13d ago
    That's why I said it was a harsh sentence for a probably safe area at the end of my statement, why so angry?
    - mcphage 13d ago
      Because even beyond this area being safe, your claim that "There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely" is wrong.
      - Huarache1 13d ago
        I would argue it depends on where. Most of the rural areas are likely too loosely populated to commit any serious crimes, especially against children. And it is a large part of the United States. However, looking at say, Downtown Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, the amount of crime does seem to increase overall. This is partially due to density, and also poverty. Saint Louis, a good chunk of Louisiana, parts of the South (Not including Texas), the Appalachian region, a good chunk of the Eastern United States barring New England, many of these regions have had issues with crime. There's also the issue of crime happening in schools, including but not limited to drug sales (mostly between teenagers and not generally violent), and shootings (which is rare but far more common compared to other similarly wealthy nations). Also I said Sometimes the Adults are scared due to truths, and exaggerations.
sh-run 13d ago
I live in Colorado, we have a "free-range" law that protects parents allowing their children to play outside unattended. It's a bit sad that such a law needs to exist, but I'm glad we have it here. In our neighborhood it's very common to see kids (including mine!) outside doing things by themselves. We bike with our oldest son to school (he's 7), but plenty of other parents let their kids bike to school on their own. I think it helps that we live in a city with good pedestrian infrastructure and lots of green spaces. The whole city is better for it and I wish more US cities would do the same. My sister's neighborhood in a different state feels like a very fancy prison, nice homes, but you can't even go to a park without getting in a car.
- nxm 13d ago
  Why was the law added in the first place? Just not creating a stupid law that prevents such restrictions is enough by default (it's legal unless it's formally illegal)
  - stephencanon 13d ago
    I would assume that the state law protects parents against a city adding a restriction in their municipal code.
  - estearum 13d ago
    > Just not creating a stupid law that prevents such restrictions is enough by default (it's legal unless it's formally illegal) Not practically true at all. Everywhere has child endangerment laws, and I would bet that the vast majority of them can be readily used to prosecute the types of behaviors the free-range laws are meant to protect.
YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago
>> It's funny in the morning. One child walks to another child's home then they walk to another child's home and so on until you have a big group of kids walking to school together. In Austria they call it something like a children train. In Japan they call it a Katamari.
watwut 13d ago
> If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. That seems excessive.
- palemoonsinking 13d ago
  I've rarely heard of that going to the letter. Many city schools are way too lax and let some helicopter parents reinforce the anxiousness of their children until the imagined requirements become disruptive within school grounds. These highly trained parents can prolong the insecurity any child would feel on the first day until their children really start to have a problem and abnormal social bonds.
  - watwut 12d ago
    Summoning the police due to this still sounds excessive.
Obluness 13d ago
Unfortunatly some countries are not safe...
jjav 13d ago
> Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. Huh? So if they live 10 miles away they must walk 10 miles? Surely not, but then how does it work?
- comrade1234 13d ago
  The example I know of like that is in Zermatt. The children go to school in Visp. They take the train down by themselves and live at school for the week and come back home on the weekend.
  - jjav 12d ago
    That sounds horribly cruel.. little kids are separated from family all week? Is that for real?
- em-bee 13d ago
  they take a bus or train.
jolmg 13d ago
> If a parent escorts their children to school they'll be told not to. If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. And if they continue (I never heard of it getting to this stage) they may be fined. What's the rationale for the parent being punished? I would understand the government employing programs to encourage parents to develop their child's autonomy, but forcing them under threat of punishment? What if there are particular circumstances, like medical conditions, or they keep seeing something sus along the way one week? How to go about things with a minor should ultimately be by the parent's judgment, since they're the most informed on their circumstances.
- estearum 13d ago
  I'm sure they have systems to deal with the edge conditions like medical conditions. One can instantly figure out why it's pretty smart to have the school assert a policy here based on your following ideas that it "should ultimately be the parent's judgment" and what if "they see something sus." The current child-, parent-, and civilization-damaging child management system in the US is the direct consequence of simply "I saw something sus" and "I'm the parent so I know what's best."
  - jolmg 13d ago
    It's not a school policy if the police get involved. It seems like it's law. It's kind of funny that the post is about a parent being punished for giving their kid some autonomy and how that punishment reflects something being wrong with the US. Someone from Switzerland shares how they punish parents for not giving their kid autonomy in a certain way, and you come saying "it's pretty smart" and "civilization-damaging child management system in the US is the direct consequence of simply [...] 'I'm the parent so I know what's best.'", defending punishing parents for parenting... I see that as the constant in both cases, and what seems backwards. The problem of the post isn't about whether or not the kid walks outside on their own; it's about people not respecting the parent's judgment in how they raise their kid. That problem also seems present in Switzerland by what's being shared and it's apparently what you'd like the US to switch to, which ultimately wouldn't be a switch. You'd then have a post about a parent being punished for taking their kid to school under a given set of circumstances that makes the punishment unfair, the exact parallel of the current post. > it's pretty smart to have the school assert a policy here based on your following ideas that it "should ultimately be the parent's judgment" This is the same busybody mentality that leads to what happened to the mom of the post.
Fizz43 13d ago
In NZ we call it the walking school bus.
poulpy123 13d ago
It's as insane as this post' article
silexia 11d ago
The government should not tell people either way whether the parents have to escort or not. This story is horrifying to me as a parent who may want the choice of whether to go with my child or not.

MrWiffles 13d ago

This is the way.

jeffbee 13d ago

Pedibus. So civilized. People in California don't believe half the things I tell them about life in Switzerland, such as "if you try to drive your kid to school the cops will chastise you" and "if you drive 40 in a school zone you'll automatically get a year in jail" and, of course, "gas is nine bucks".

teekert 13d ago
The US is extremely car focused, which they often don't really realize. Things that are normal here (like everybody has a bike) conflicts with their cyclers vs drivers culture. Such a distinction simply does not exist here. Instead we have roads that are red with signs "Cars are guests". Or indeed city centers where cars aren't allowed. When I go to the US I'm often surprised that you can't get to things that are only a km away by foot because a road is blocking you, no way to cross it.
- WhatIsDukkha 13d ago
  The US has very low standards for its lifestyle. We're told we are number ONE in everything but in fact its usually 40 or 20 when you actually go look at things that matter. We never really notice because we think filling a big house in the suburbs with garbage from Costco is living the dream.
  - tedggh 13d ago
    As a naturalized American who lived in 3 other countries including two in Europe and who travels often all over the world, married to a European, etc I must say the US has its perks and it’s definitely in my top 5 countries to live. I lived mostly in the south and the east coast so I don’t have a full picture of the US as a resident. But it’s the same in Europe, living in Berlin is very different than living in Sicily, even Milan is very different than Sicily being the same country. So to be fair the US should be compared to Europe not to a particular country. The car culture in the US I think is fine because the country is built around it, the interstate system is pretty good and gas is cheap. I do like road trips very much, at my own pace not having to worry about train/flight schedules. In Europe taking long family road trips by car as we do in the US would be prohibited and even stupid in the eyes of many Europeans. I also like that you can talk to Americans everywhere and get to know people. In Europe you start talking to a stranger they look at you like you went crazy. Being social is part of having a good quality of life too, so the US ranks pretty high there.
    - Gud 13d ago
      So in the beginning of your paragraph you say it's "very different" depending on where you are in Europe, but towards the end, you generalise the entire continent. I travel all over the world for work(Though mostly Europe) and my experience has been that Europe is a very diverse place. Currently outside London where you can absolutely chat with random strangers(I'm from Sweden, so obviously I don't).
      - teekert 12d ago
        Yeah bit strange remark. Many people I know drive thousands of km for their summer holiday.
- OtomotO 13d ago
  The last time I was in the US - a couple of decades ago, I admit - people were aghast that we walked to a store just a few hundred meters away. 3 people stopped and asked whether they can drive us somewhere... I mean, super friendly people, but... it's just a few hundred meters, come on! You were the wild west, once!
  - YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago
    Well, everybody rode their horse everywhere in the Wild West.
  - megagpt1 13d ago
    This happened to me in Germany. To be fair, I was walking 10km on a rural road with two suitcases and no sidewalk.
  - rainsford 13d ago
    To be fair, there are an embarrassingly large number of places in the US where safely walking to a store a few hundred meters away would be very difficult at best.
  - chrismorgan 13d ago
    My mother tells much the same from when we Australians were in Denver for five months in 1996 about walking a kilometre to school. Also mild astonishment at ideas like baking cakes not from a packet mix. Mind you, there weren’t many who would walk to school like that in Australia, and the number has continued to dwindle. But there were some.
- VBprogrammer 13d ago
  On holiday in the Florida we walked to the gated entrance to the community to ask whether delivery drivers got access or we needed to pick it up at the gate. The way they looked at us, you would think we had two heads for arriving on foot.
  - teekert 13d ago
    I once walked into a drive through in Texas (Galveston) with a group of scientists there for a conference (because main restaurant was closed), we almost got shot (no not really but people felt very very threatened and threatened us)!
  - mrguyorama 13d ago
    In Florida gated communities, the standard transportation method is individual overpriced golf karts.
  - FireBeyond 13d ago
    I got into an argument with a security guard at a gated community who tried to demand we give him a name, address, and "what's going on?" before he'd let us in. Fixed that when I asked if he personally called 911 and when he said no, "So, before we make this a lot more formal, are you understanding that you are now obstructing emergency services personnel in the performance of duty?"
xattt 13d ago
Our school started a chaperoned bicycle bus, and it’s enabled a number of kids who live 3-5 km away to engage in active transportation once a week that would have otherwise been unable to.
tsunamifury 13d ago
[flagged]

alasano 13d ago

That's lovely. Also all the heartwarming ways things work in Japan where kids get a lot of autonomy and live their own little lives on the way to school, among other things.

niwtsol 13d ago
I went to Japan a few years ago - I saw a lot of beautiful things, but the image of schoolchildren in their yellow hats on the train system is one of the most memorable/replayed in my mind.

Foobar8568 13d ago

> If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. It depends of the town/location and region. In our town, police had to be involved several times due to different issues with creeps targeting 12yo or less. Edit:And I forgot, as it's Switzerland, police moved only because parents were accompanying their kids and almost done justice by themselves. Protecting creeps is a national sport here too.

tolerance 13d ago

> Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. If a parent escorts their children to school they'll be told not to. If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. And if they continue (I never heard of it getting to this stage) they may be fined. Can't help but think that this is just swinging things in the opposite direction.

WA 13d ago
No, it’s to counteract the desire of parents dropping of their kids in front of school with their car and causing traffic jams.
- microtherion 13d ago
  Exactly. It’s a collective action problem — every car dropping off a kid incrementally endangers the kids walking to school, so if there is no enforcement whatsoever, we’d end up with everybody driving, and a situation worse than in US schools (because Swiss schools were largely not constructed with drop off zones in mind, and retrofitting them would be difficult with our land use patterns).
- neaden 13d ago
  The original comment makes it sound like you'd get a police visit for walking with your kid to school though, which is hopefully a misunderstanding.
  - jeffbee 13d ago
    In my experience the kids form a peloton walking to school but there are adults walking with the youngest such groups. E.g. this website (never been to this town, just seems representative). https://pskerzers.ch/pedibus/ https://pskerzers.ch/pedibus/
bestouff 13d ago
Sure. In a good way.
13d ago

OtomotO 13d ago

When I was a kid, about 3 decades ago, walking to school was a blast. I had so much fun going there and going back on foot. So much that when I was a teenager and my mother drove by my school one day and decided to pick me up, I was super unhappy, because I wanted to walk the 20 or so minutes with my friends to the bus. When I had 9 hour school, I would need to wait 50 Minutes for a bus... or I walked the 5 kilometers home. I always choose to walk, even when it rained, because I was faster and I loved it! I am curious how it will be with my daughter, once she goes to school. Because today this is totally frowned upon. But I will not play taxi for her all the time. Occasionally, sure. But CERTAINLY not every day.

profsummergig 13d ago

It's a high trust homogenous society without lots of different groups with all kinds of grievances about the past, present and the future. And it's probably rural, where everyone knows each other. When I read the headline, I sided with the mother. But a five-year old having to cross four roads in total to and from (with vehicles going up 25 mph legally, and who knows how fast illegally) is a bit much.

GeoAtreides 13d ago
>homogenous society this is a racist dogwhistle. _Homogeneous_ is code for racial or ethnic purity.
- eudamoniac 13d ago
  It's okay to acknowledge that diversity has some downsides, and homogeny some upsides. We can be intellectually honest enough to admit this, right?
  - GeoAtreides 13d ago
    are you asking if it's ok to acknowledge the upsides of racial purity? the things i read on hn...
    - eudamoniac 13d ago
      It isn't ok to acknowledge that racial (cultural) homogeny has any benefit to a society whatsoever?
      - YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago
        Wait. Is it racial or is it cultural? There's a difference there. Do you believe it's possible to have cultural homogeneity without having racial homogeneity? Btw I think you're wrong: people can be extremely xenophobic with the folks from the next village over who are their cousins thrice removed. It's nothing to do with race or culture, just who's in the in-group and who's in the out-group, and what those are depends on a myriad of factors that "race" and "culture" are only convenient, but inaccurate, proxies for. Another example: Greek football fans from Athens will literally murder their counterparts from Thessaloniki, and they're all just as Greek as each other [1]. You just have to draw a line in the sand and people on either side of it will start throwing stones at each other. __________________ [1] Culturally of course. We're not a "race". Tiny little rant but with Nolan's Odyssey, there were the usual complains about Helen being played by a black woman etc. and people all over the internet were having fights about what real Greeks look like. Oh they have fair hair and light skin. No they have dark hair and olive skin. And so on. The truth is that most Greek families are like mine: one parent is fair-haired and light skinned (my dad: blond hair, green eyes, goes red in the sun; his mom: blond hair, blue eyes, skin like yogurt) and the other is dark-haired and dark skinned (my mom: brown hair, brown eyes, goes brown in the sun; her mom: black hair, black eyes, never sat in the sun). But stereotypes persist so me and one of my friends were asked how come we're both fair-haired with light-coloured eyes when true Greeks are brown and at the same time a friend recommended to me a concealer that was three tones darker than my actual colour even though I was standing right there in front of her eyes with my pasty-white skin. Race is not what it's made out to be. End rant.

NoGravitas 13d ago

> One child walks to another child's home then they walk to another child's home and so on until you have a big group of kids walking to school together. That's what I did when I was in first grade. Suburban US, late 70s. Lived at the end of a cul-de-sac. Met with the other kid who lived at the end of the cul-de-sac, walked to the house of a kid who lived at the other end of the street. Then the three of us got on the sidewalk of the main road and walked to the school.

stephencanon 13d ago

Our neighborhood in the northeast US does the same (minus the hard prohibition against parents going with them). Our 5 and 9 year old walk to school daily, usually picking up the neighbors' kids (6, 6, 10, 9, 7, 7) along the way. If we happen to be free sometimes an adult will walk with them, sometimes we start walking with them and then stop for coffee with a neighbor while the kids continue on, sometimes they go by themselves. I can't imagine living somewhere where that was prohibited.

Aurornis 13d ago

Young children also walk to the elementary schools near me. When I’m at the park with my kids, it’s common to see other very young kids show up alone on their bikes or on foot to play in the park. This is in the US. I think international readers see these headlines and assume the entire US is like this, but the reason the story is a headline is because it’s a dumb sentence. This is going to get appealed. The US is a big country. The state this happened in has a similar population to the entire country of Switzerland. Laws and cultural norms vary across the country, but this story is unusual even for the location it happened in. That’s why it’s a news story.

gogobio 13d ago
I'm also in the US, in a city in a populous state and I've never seen that, as a matter of fact it counts as child abuse in my state as well. Why don't you mention where you live and what state you see this within? Is it because what you're seeing is anecdotal in some particularly rich area? I can assure you leaving children under 16 unsupervised is illegal in most states.
- kxrm 13d ago
  > I can assure you leaving children under 16 unsupervised is illegal in most states. This is absolutely untrue. Only 3 states have an age specific standard. Most states set no specific limits by age. The bigger problem is the vagueness of the laws we do have in place around child neglect which allows a cop or neighbor to be the biggest determining factor of whether you get a knock on your door.
- hex4def6 13d ago
  Citation needed. A kid that's 15.5 yrs old is more than able to be unsupervised for a few hours. c'mon. The only state that I can find with the oldest age defined is 14 in Illinois (but it's defined as "for an unreasonable period of time"). Most states otherwise don't define it (~38 states), and of the ones that do, it's between 6-10.
- illiac786 13d ago
  It is actually telling you didn’t even check this. It’s because you are so 100% convinced it’s true. This shows how bad the situation is in some places.

microtherion 13d ago

Yes, I’m Swiss and walked to school starting around 5. I was hit by a car (due to bad judgment on my part) on the way back from school at 6, though, so it’s not all roses. I also pulled one of my sons twice from the same pond around that age, so I would not necessarily be super comfortable trusting them around those attractive nuisances, even though I’m on board with the “let them walk to school” policy. It’s a difficult balancing act.

arcade79 10d ago
> I also pulled one of my sons twice from the same pond around that age Norwegian here. I rescued a girl one year older than me from a small stream/brook that had grown a bit larger due to rainwater when I was 7 years old. Also walked to/from school alone from when I was 6 years old. I remember parents were allowed to walk us to school the first week, and then we were supposed to get there on our own. About 1km walk. I'm very, very pro "let them walk to school on their own", and my daughter has walked to school on her own since she was 6 or 7.

Huarache1 13d ago

Parents and Adults in America are often afraid. Sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not. There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely, and it could be dangerous to even try to walk in areas that barely have walkable streets. Europe can let this happen since their city planning is much better for people who either walk or bike to different areas. Some, like in Switzerland, even have extremely low crime rates as well. Still, a sentencing seems rough for letting a kid walk, in a probably safe area.

mcphage 13d ago
> There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely This is very much not true. If there are any urban areas that have too much crime for kids to walk freely, it's a vanishingly small percentage, and certainly does not include gated communities in Williamsburg, VA. GTFOH with that nonsense.
- Huarache1 13d ago
  That's why I said it was a harsh sentence for a probably safe area at the end of my statement, why so angry?
  - mcphage 13d ago
    Because even beyond this area being safe, your claim that "There is likely too much crime in urban areas for children to walk freely" is wrong.
    - Huarache1 13d ago
      I would argue it depends on where. Most of the rural areas are likely too loosely populated to commit any serious crimes, especially against children. And it is a large part of the United States. However, looking at say, Downtown Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, the amount of crime does seem to increase overall. This is partially due to density, and also poverty. Saint Louis, a good chunk of Louisiana, parts of the South (Not including Texas), the Appalachian region, a good chunk of the Eastern United States barring New England, many of these regions have had issues with crime. There's also the issue of crime happening in schools, including but not limited to drug sales (mostly between teenagers and not generally violent), and shootings (which is rare but far more common compared to other similarly wealthy nations). Also I said Sometimes the Adults are scared due to truths, and exaggerations.

sh-run 13d ago

I live in Colorado, we have a "free-range" law that protects parents allowing their children to play outside unattended. It's a bit sad that such a law needs to exist, but I'm glad we have it here. In our neighborhood it's very common to see kids (including mine!) outside doing things by themselves. We bike with our oldest son to school (he's 7), but plenty of other parents let their kids bike to school on their own. I think it helps that we live in a city with good pedestrian infrastructure and lots of green spaces. The whole city is better for it and I wish more US cities would do the same. My sister's neighborhood in a different state feels like a very fancy prison, nice homes, but you can't even go to a park without getting in a car.

nxm 13d ago
Why was the law added in the first place? Just not creating a stupid law that prevents such restrictions is enough by default (it's legal unless it's formally illegal)
- stephencanon 13d ago
  I would assume that the state law protects parents against a city adding a restriction in their municipal code.
- estearum 13d ago
  > Just not creating a stupid law that prevents such restrictions is enough by default (it's legal unless it's formally illegal) Not practically true at all. Everywhere has child endangerment laws, and I would bet that the vast majority of them can be readily used to prosecute the types of behaviors the free-range laws are meant to protect.

YeGoblynQueenne 13d ago

>> It's funny in the morning. One child walks to another child's home then they walk to another child's home and so on until you have a big group of kids walking to school together. In Austria they call it something like a children train. In Japan they call it a Katamari.

watwut 13d ago

> If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. That seems excessive.

palemoonsinking 13d ago
I've rarely heard of that going to the letter. Many city schools are way too lax and let some helicopter parents reinforce the anxiousness of their children until the imagined requirements become disruptive within school grounds. These highly trained parents can prolong the insecurity any child would feel on the first day until their children really start to have a problem and abnormal social bonds.
- watwut 12d ago
  Summoning the police due to this still sounds excessive.

Obluness 13d ago

Unfortunatly some countries are not safe...

jjav 13d ago

> Parents aren't allowed to bring them to school. Huh? So if they live 10 miles away they must walk 10 miles? Surely not, but then how does it work?

comrade1234 13d ago
The example I know of like that is in Zermatt. The children go to school in Visp. They take the train down by themselves and live at school for the week and come back home on the weekend.
- jjav 12d ago
  That sounds horribly cruel.. little kids are separated from family all week? Is that for real?
em-bee 13d ago
they take a bus or train.

jolmg 13d ago

> If a parent escorts their children to school they'll be told not to. If they keep doing it they'll get a letter from the school and probably a police visit. And if they continue (I never heard of it getting to this stage) they may be fined. What's the rationale for the parent being punished? I would understand the government employing programs to encourage parents to develop their child's autonomy, but forcing them under threat of punishment? What if there are particular circumstances, like medical conditions, or they keep seeing something sus along the way one week? How to go about things with a minor should ultimately be by the parent's judgment, since they're the most informed on their circumstances.

estearum 13d ago
I'm sure they have systems to deal with the edge conditions like medical conditions. One can instantly figure out why it's pretty smart to have the school assert a policy here based on your following ideas that it "should ultimately be the parent's judgment" and what if "they see something sus." The current child-, parent-, and civilization-damaging child management system in the US is the direct consequence of simply "I saw something sus" and "I'm the parent so I know what's best."
- jolmg 13d ago
  It's not a school policy if the police get involved. It seems like it's law. It's kind of funny that the post is about a parent being punished for giving their kid some autonomy and how that punishment reflects something being wrong with the US. Someone from Switzerland shares how they punish parents for not giving their kid autonomy in a certain way, and you come saying "it's pretty smart" and "civilization-damaging child management system in the US is the direct consequence of simply [...] 'I'm the parent so I know what's best.'", defending punishing parents for parenting... I see that as the constant in both cases, and what seems backwards. The problem of the post isn't about whether or not the kid walks outside on their own; it's about people not respecting the parent's judgment in how they raise their kid. That problem also seems present in Switzerland by what's being shared and it's apparently what you'd like the US to switch to, which ultimately wouldn't be a switch. You'd then have a post about a parent being punished for taking their kid to school under a given set of circumstances that makes the punishment unfair, the exact parallel of the current post. > it's pretty smart to have the school assert a policy here based on your following ideas that it "should ultimately be the parent's judgment" This is the same busybody mentality that leads to what happened to the mom of the post.

Fizz43 13d ago

In NZ we call it the walking school bus.

poulpy123 13d ago

It's as insane as this post' article

silexia 11d ago

The government should not tell people either way whether the parents have to escort or not. This story is horrifying to me as a parent who may want the choice of whether to go with my child or not.