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EPA says power for data centers can sidestep pollution laws
- Levitating 20d agoTitle is taken from the reuters coverage[1], but I used the link to the original epa.gov press release. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/epa-says-power-data-centers-can-sidestep-pollution-laws-2026-07-27/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/epa-says-power-data...
- Zigurd 20d agoAbout that P in your acronym...
- two_handfuls 20d agoSurely this is going to cement the reputation of datacenters as a blight.
- WarmWash 20d agoRight, I can only imagine the most foolish DC operators are excited about this. Just more gas on the political fire, when DCs should be boring and out of public politics, even if they rank 15th for water consumption and 8th for energy consumption.
- epistasis 19d agoThe bipartisan opinion shift towards absolute hate for data centers was extremely fast. Just adding more fuel to one of the brightest fires out there in politics right now. Expect it to continue and grow as people feel even less heard, and any negative media towards data centers gets lots of clicks. The AI companies and Trump seem to be doing everything they can to encourage this.
- andsoitis 20d agoEPA guidance source document https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2026-07/epa-issues-clarification-on-islanded-power-generators-and-acid-rain-program-provisions.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2026-07/epa-issue...
- user00005 20d agoThank you. This seems like a pretty straight-forward clarification of current law. The current thread title (OP said taken from Reuters) saying this side-steps the law seems misleading.
- convolvatron 20d agoits very much using the letter to violate the spirit - since the pollution is emitted regardless of whether the plant is grid-connected. these datacenter plants don't run as clean or as efficient as proper power plants, but the primary acid rain contributor is no2. how much are we really talking about?
- andsoitis 20d ago> its very much using the letter That’s how law works.
- convolvatron 19d agoapparently you're very excited about this partisan victory. at some point we do need to actually think about how to effectively manage the country. there should be a back and forth about the appropriate degree of environmental regulation since it is a tradeoff between economic constraint and qualify of life. I grew up in the 70s, and my father was a Nixon supporting environmental engineer. At the time the amount of nitrogen and sulfur being emitted into the air in the northeast was turning surface water into acid. a ph of 6 was getting quite common, 4 wasn't unusual, and if you were in a bad spot it was approaching 1. Not only would that water not support life, or be unsafe to drink, but it was actually unsafe to touch. So if we were reasonable people we would look at the economic activity and the upside of burning these gasses, and add up the numbers and based on past experience make a very reasonable estimate of the impact, and make a decision. but we fired all those people, and we're very much not interested in having this discussion. I fail to see how that's a win for anyone except the polluter.
- londons_explore 20d agoThere are big benefits to having power generation grid connected. It is more reliable (due to many possible generation sources). It is more eco-friendly (solar in daytime, wind when the wind blows). It is more cost efficient (no need to overbuild for peak usage, generators don't sit idle when computers are off for maintenance). Yet our electricity grid has such a mass of regulations attached that people are choosing to lose these benefits - and with it we lose the benefit of them connecting to our grid.
- dylan604 20d agoThat's partly a result of having 50 states writing laws for themselves instead having all statues living under federal laws for everything. The line between what is acceptable to be regulated by federal laws and what is not is something I, not being a lawyer, have never studied. Power and water type utilities does feel like it might be something that could benefit from same rules/regulations every where, but basing regulations on feelings is probably not the best bit of logic
- mixdup 20d agoFor the most part power grids are federally regulated. The exception is Texas because they are self-contained and don't cross state lines States rights is not why there are issues with the power grid EDIT: I should add, states DO also regulate electric utilities but generally that is around local issues like charging rates to customers. the bulk electric system (transmission and generation) is largely the domain of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
- hammock 19d agoExactly. Think how much more efficient our government could be if we had one centrally planned government instead of 50 sovereign states. Sometimes I wish I could move to the USSR.
- Noaidi 20d agoThose regulations are there for a reason though. I’ll never understand this logic. We have regulations so things are clean and safe. Yes, it would be easier to not have those regulations and just have dirty and unsafe electricity. But that’s the cost of having a business and also having a clean and safe society. Corporations love to externalize costs and that’s what’s happening here again.
- tastyfreeze 20d agoHmm... rules for thee but not for me. Sounds like the beginning of the end for the EPA. Two tiered rules breed resentment. There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Making exceptions just makes it easier to argue the EPA is useless or just a tool for oppressing the little guy.
- dgellow 20d agoIt’s literally the playbook from project 2025. FWIW it’s not the beginning, that has been a process at play since day 1 of the 2nd trump admin Edit: actually since the 1st term as mentioned below
- josefresco 20d agoClarification: During his first term, Donald Trump appointed former Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt as the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). In his role as state attorney general, Pruitt had sued the EPA multiple times to challenge federal environmental regulations, including the Clean Power Plan and the Waters of the United States rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_policy_of_the_first_Trump_administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_policy_of_the_fi...
- lvspiff 19d agoRight? This isnt the first chapter in a long story to come. This is the middle of the book where the villain has all but the final stone of the gauntlet but rather than put up a strong resistance we appear to have elected sycophants who are just watching and saying “dont let him get that stone”
- MisterTea 20d ago> There are already plenty of people that don't like the EPA. Rich assholes who are upset they can't throw their trash on the ground. Anyone else is parroting propaganda generated by said rich assholes.
- cucumber3732842 20d ago
- 0xy 20d agoFirst they say data centers should pay their own way on power infrastructure, then when they start springing up entirely off-grid and fully self-funded power infrastructure, suddenly there's a new problem. The problem was never power or water (water being a known Chinese spy op after Karen Hao was caught exaggerating water usage by 1,000x in her book).
- jordanb 20d agoI'm trying to build a torment nexus and these negative ninnies complained that it used up all the electricity, so I made a machine that turns breathable air into toxic smoke to power the nexus and they don't like that ether!
- 0xy 19d agoUS emissions are down dramatically per capita since 2000. From 2024 to 2026, green energy sources were 96.6% of new capacity coming online.
- jordanb 19d agoThe data canters are using gas turbines and diesel generators.
- tzs 19d agoHow is that relevant? (1) The data centers under discussion aren't using green energy sources. (2) The overall emission numbers aren't really relevant to the people who live near large emitters. It is the local numbers that affect their health.
- triceratops 20d agoYou're saying multiple wrong ways to do a thing is evidence that the thing is undesirable? Why don't you want an auto repair shop in the house next door, and why won't you let them pour old engine oil on your lawn? Are you anti-car-repair? All your "noise and pollution" complaints sound like psy ops to me, paid for by the Chinese EV industry. ^ that's what you sound like.
- deleted 20d ago[deleted]
- zach_moore 20d agothen whats the fucking point of the EPA
- dylan604 20d agoAccording to this administration, there isn't one. They have told us this for years, but I guess nobody believed them??? It just took someone willing to not give a damn about working with others and just forcing their will upon others. After all, the people elected them and they are just carrying through with their well advertised plans.
- deleted 20d ago[deleted]
- bix6 20d agoHow the fuck does anyone still support these world destroying assholes.
- nancyminusone 20d agoThey really accel at making people their supporters don't like, angry. To gleefully rub your hands together while your enemies cry is a dream for some.
- dylan604 20d ago$$$ Hangers on looking to scoop up some of the loose change overflowing the rich asshole's pockets
- Noaidi 20d agoEveryone is doing it all around you. We can mostly blame the people who make AI but we also have to blame everyone who’s using it. We can boycott AI until they make it safe and clean to use. Until then, everyone’s to blame that uses it or builds it.
- inigyou 19d agoBoycotts basically don't work unless you get a big percentage of the company's customers to simultaneously agree to boycott that company because they are really angry. Nobody's really angry at chatgpt.
- rc_mob 20d ago70 years of very successful propaganda techniques. Republicans are the GOATs of propaganda and manipulation of public opinion.
- JohnTHaller 20d agoThe administration and Republicans get paid off, right wing billionaires produce propaganda news, voters consume said news.
- wilburx3 20d agoWhat a disgrace. Abysmal leadership in this country.
- shimman 20d agoThis seems pretty inline with our leadership tho. This country has always put profits above people.
- bayindirh 20d ago> This country has always put profits above people. Please, the correct word is "value". Using the word p-word makes people understand and get irritated.
- lanstin 20d agoAllowing more carbon dioxide sources is going to be distinctly harmful to profits in the mid-term. As with racial bias, strict gender roles, anti-vaxxing, and being anti-science, being pro-carbon burn is ultimately a foolish anti-truth stance as silly and ill-outcomed as any three year old insisting that they can stay up all night.
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- Varelion 20d agoI expect nothing and am still disappointed
- Noaidi 20d agoLet this sink in. Nobody cares about you and your children. They don’t care about the planet. These people are sociopaths. A lot of you work for these people. And a lot of you should stop working for these people. And if you’re using AI, you should stop using AI and you should make your boycott vocal. This is not about Trump. This is not about Republicans or Democrats. This is about people who have the money who control all of those people. The AI play is nothing but pure greed. They don’t want to make your life better. They’re actively making your life. worse while they’re getting rich.
- himata4113 20d agoI don't really care about 'future & children', but even I find this absurd.
- singpolyma3 20d agoBeyond stupid. Why there are any "power generation" mechanisms that could produce air pollutantion in this decade is already incomprehensible. Making rules to allow for them on purpose is even dumber.
- ck2 20d agoright on cue for my meme of the three boxes this administration reaches into daily [chaos] [corruption] [cruelty] fine then, make mar-a-lardo and the ballroom into datacenters November and the "AI" collapse cannot come soon enough but if the Dems don't get the Senate nothing will change even in the slightest
- pyrophane 20d ago> Clean Air Act (CAA) Acid Rain Program (ARP) does not apply to power generation facilities that are not connected to a public electricity grid, commonly referred to as “islanded” power generation facilities. This of course makes no sense whatever, as whether or not a power generator is connected to the grid has nothing to do with its environmental impact.
- techpression 20d agoPretty insane, expect data center to be data center + coal power plant soon, why bother with generators or the pesky local grid.
- cucumber3732842 20d agoIf coal doesn't pencil out economically for the grid it still likely won't pencil out economically for data centers even if you remove some of the compliance stuff.
- techpression 19d agoFair enough, I don't know if it matters short term for massive buildouts, but I'm sure whatever comes out of this is not a benefit for anyone except the owners.
- adamgordonbell 19d agoSomebody mentioned that a solar panel field to power a data center requires a lot of impact assessment paper work and approvals. Whereas natural gas generators do not. Hence the runs on gas turbines, while solar panels are plentiful. ( Although I'd guess the consistency of power is a bigger issue. ) Running existing coal is now supposedly more expensive then putting in new wind or solar ... all else being equal.
- techpression 19d agoThey should definitely use wind power, since you could use the fans to cool the computers at the same time! I for one would love a nice HTTP status in the form of "due to the weather being nice and calm outside, AI services are down, go outside and enjoy the day"
- dukeofdoom 20d agoIts for the greater good. Net benefit would still be in data centers favour, as AI replaces useless office workers, it will lower carbon footprint of all those people commuting by car / needing to work in cities. More people living in nature in the country side, doing something productive in the new economy, growing their food. Just invest in banks, to ride out the transition.
- rc_mob 20d agoNone of what you say is true to real life
- dukeofdoom 20d agoAI is making working from home much easier than ever before. You don't really need to live in a city to have a tech career now, and it will accelerate. We don't really need so many office workers going forward in cities. Almost anything they decide to do instead, will more productive in the economy than being a useless cubicle monkey thats no longer needed because AI can do it better.
- KaiserPro 19d agook, but if AI is doing it better, then they won't be working remote, they'd be just unemployed.
- dukeofdoom 19d agoSure, they'll be unemployed until they chose to do something else that people will pay for. Like I was reading some guy is making downloads for Minecraft and making great living in it (science fiction a few decades ago). Worse case scenerio, move to the country side, and homestead. Thats how people survived wars and famines. Surely they can survive a tech transition.
- inigyou 19d agoHow much money is your homestead making?
- gwbas1c 20d agoWhat's frustrating is that the title in this thread is very misleading. This is the way the laws have been: Separate laws for generators feeding into the grid. Why this is, I don't know. I suspect it's because the vast, vast, majority of non-connected generators were, (until now,) backup generators that only ran occasionally. I even have a "fancy" portable generator in my garage that probably emits way more pollution per kwh than a typical fossil fuel plant, but I probably only run it ~10 hours a year at most. What's more disappointing is that this loophole is being promoted instead of closed; but everyone here seems to think that laws were weakened.
- msandford 19d agoI suspected that this was the case as the president can't just invent new laws on a whim. They have a fair amount of leeway on their interpretation of laws re: directions to the administration on how/when to do things but they can't just invent a law from thin air. Also I mean what constitutes a generator if it isn't something connected to the grid? If my car has an engine and it also has a small inverter and an AC outlet is that now a generator and subject to generator laws in addition to car laws?
- inigyou 19d agoThey can, however, just refuse to enforce a law, or start enforcing the opposite of a law. While they may not be able to change the words on the page, the effect is identical.
- s1artibartfast 19d agoI find this perpetually frustrating. People mistake carveouts or loopholes in the law for corruption. This is a problem because it isnt conducive to actually identifying the problem and updating the law through a democratic process. Same issue with flock cameras.
- josefritzishere 20d agoThis is completely unforgivably wrong. Pollution is pollution regardless of the source. We need clean air and water to live.
- jimt1234 19d agoThe most ironic part of this is that data center pollution will impact Trump supporters the most. In 5-to-10 years, after swimming in the same river their parents and grandparents swam in, kids will start develop breathing complications or their teeth will fall out, and there won't be anything anyone can do about it. Congratulations, MAGA, you played yourself.
- swader999 19d agoI thought we were in a end of times global climate crisis? So confusing...
- vrganj 19d agoThe US as currently composed is a climate supervillain, there's no other way to describe it. We're in an existential crisis and instead of stepping up to a leadership role, they are actively sabotaging efforts to avert disaster. Shameful.
- prasadjoglekar 19d agoGood thing that Chevron is no longer the law of the land right? So courts can review the law without regard to what the EPA says.
- monneyboi 19d agoI think it's time for a name change. There's definitely something more fitting out there than "Environmental Protection Agency".
- burnt-resistor 19d ago"Rubber Stamp Incompetent Loyalists Agency" was taken.
- wookmaster 19d agoHere we go yet again trading our health for wealthy people to get what they want
- khriss 19d agoThe extent to which this administration will go to protect and enhance obvious and blatant corruption is truly breath taking! What's heart breaking is that in spite of overwhelming objective evidence, the same MAGA folks who were apoplectic about corruption under the previous administration(remember Hunter Biden's laptop?) are now suddenly OK with it.