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It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more)
by rythie 5mo ago
It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits:
I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly.
I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because just the battery not the device. This way my expensive device and my data is not at risk.
I can use 40+ year old cameras, because I can just put a new battery in. This is not something you can do with newer device, e.g. and iPod and you can’t even find anyone who will fit them for the older models.
Battery tech moves on. There are now some batteries with charging ports on them. Other batteries offer more capacity than the original ones. Apple even did this once for me, when MacBook Air batteries were fairly easy to replace, I had mine replaced (it wore out) at the shop and they put a slightly bigger one in, which was the standard on the newer models.
- lopis 5mo ago> I can use 40+ year old cameras Sadly, you can't use modern software on 40+ year old computers. You can't even use most apps in 10 year old smartphones.
- heavyset_go 5mo agoI cannot wait until I can carry a spare battery in my wallet again
- bigfishrunning 5mo agoToo scary to sit on a battery and possibly breach it. Keep em on your belt like batman.
- thrownthatway 5mo agoWho carries there wallet in their back pocket?
- bmicraft 5mo agoMany people do, although I too don't get why
- heavyset_go 5mo agoLiving on the edge is part of the fun
- BenFranklin100 5mo agoI carry USB-battery pack or my MagSafe battery. At night I use pass through charging. Works just as well.
- heavyset_go 5mo agoThis is what I do now, but the convenience of always having at least one spare battery on my person at any time was peak smartphone
- thrownthatway 5mo ago> or my MagSafe battery So you agree that swappable batteries are superior.
- AdrianB1 5mo agoSome action cameras have replaceable batteries, some don't. I had a perfectly good Contour Roam 2 where the battery died and I still have a Contour Roam 3 with some low capacity battery.
- Forgeties79 5mo agoMy GoPro hero 4 black still going strong. Probably one of the greatest cameras ever made. They kind of hurt themselves with how good it was lol
- pandaman 5mo agoAction cameras seem to have less than a 2h run-time though. One could argue that a replaceable battery is a desired feature on such a device as many users of these cameras participate in activities lasting much longer. They also tend to have replaceable memory for the same reason. And it all is achieved without EU directives as far as I know, just from the pure market demand. PS. Consumer surveillance cameras, on the other hand, don't have replaceable batteries in general, as they can operate indefinitely off a small solar panel or for months on a charge.
- kolinko 5mo agoWith cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be ok with paying someone a bit extra to replace the battery. I mean, I'd be ok if I had a battery die in my phone in the last 10 years, which I don't remember it did.
- piskov 5mo agoThe main issue of paying someone to teplace the battery is procuring the battery in the first place. For example, good luck finding good apple batteries in regions where there is no official apple service. Most Chinese parts are inferior: for example rates for max 500 cycles instead of 1000
- kennywinker 5mo agoJust to clarify something: afaik official apple batteries are “chinese” in origin.
- piskov 5mo agoSure, but that doesn’t mean every chinese battery is the same. For some reason there are no 3rd-party batteries of the same quality as Apple’s. And Apple doesn’t distribute them freely to other countries.
- kennywinker 5mo agoYou can just say “aftermarket” or “knockoff” or even “3rd party”. They all get the same point across and don’t rely on an outdated stereotype about chinese manufacturing.
- piskov 5mo agoStereotypes are not fiction. Become a nation that cherishes quality and this will change. Noone forced them to produce junk, manufacturing prowess nonwithstanding
- chrisjj 5mo ago> I can use 40+ year old cameras Apple winces.
- spiralpolitik 5mo agoNah, they'll just make the battery an external MagSafe accessory like the Air.
- somat 5mo agoSeveral years ago when I bought a slr, I went with nikon, mainly because their F-mount lenses are mostly compatible back to 1959. It is a lot of fun to pick up and use nice old glass from garage sales and such. They tend to require manual control, but that is the fun part of taking pictures anyway.
- doctorpangloss 5mo agouser replaceable batteries and blue bubbles are the 2 greatest threats to Apple
- usef- 5mo agoSoftware security updates seem to be the limit to phone life, not batteries (the latter of which I've had replaced at Apple stores). Apple still seems to have the longest support for security updates.
- bko 5mo agoThe fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the trade off is just not worth it. And now the EU, in its infinite wisdom has decided it knows whats best. If it's such a superior product that people want despite the tradeoffs, why don't they just fund a company to create such a phone? Why doesn't anyone?
- account42 5mo agoAll it says is that thinner phones look better on advertisements. Let's not pretend that product decisions are the rational best result for the market even if they are industry-standard.
- Ar-Curunir 5mo agoAh yes, “market knows best”. Perhaps consider that what companies are optimizing for isn’t what is best for consumers, or humanity, or the earth.
- cataphract 5mo agoI don't think the objective is to make it a "superior product" in the somewhat circular way you're defining it (i.e., the market equilibrium that we settled on). It's one of several measures to try to have people keep their phones for longer and cut e-waste.
- dzhiurgis 5mo agoI think it’s far more likely to introduce additional dead batteries into existing waste. Probably drop in an ocean given how much batteries are already dumped.
- bko 5mo agoSlow down innovation is certainly one way to have people keep their phones longer and cut e-waste. Imagine if they allowed air conditioners...
- userbinator 5mo agoand you can’t even find anyone who will fit them for the older models. I'm quite certain you can find many companies in the far East who will produce cells of exactly the size and shape you want, as long as you're willing to order a minimum quantity. There are also a few semi-standard sizes of prismatic cells available. That said, having a few truly standard sizes like we had with 1.2/1.5V and 9V batteries would be a good idea. BL-5C and its variants were a de-facto standard for many years too, and apparently are still available new.
- 6510 5mo agoI tried to find a phone battery once and found very similar looking ones with prices ranging from expensive to terrifying with everything in between. I don't trust the ones that are to cheap as I don't know how they cut the corners. I don't trust the more expensive ones because they look the same. I cant see the profit margins. I was unable to pick one. I ask a guy with a repair store. He said he always buys from the same shop and the badges look different every time.
- svnt 5mo agoThis is what happens when the market for phone batteries only exists for OEMs who buy millions at a time, custom. It will stop only when there is a reason for consumer-detectable battery quality indicators — ie non-tech people have a reason to buy them. Which will now be the case with this law.
- iggldiggl 5mo ago> This is what happens when the market for phone batteries only exists for OEMs who buy millions at a time, custom. Even a few years ago when phones with replaceable batteries weren't that rare and I was in possession of one – by the time I started thinking about a battery replacement, offers of original OEM batteries usually seemed to have vanished into thin air and it was having to find out which aftermarket battery seemed reputable enough…
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- 2muchcoffeeman 5mo agoHaving a battery pack has its uses though. As crazy as USBC is, you can now get a relatively large amount of power from a battery pack. There’s a bunch of things that don’t need their own battery if they just drew enough power off USBC. I have an office coffee setup. My grinder and espresso maker have their own batteries. But there’s no reason I couldn’t have a single battery pack and just plug both into USBC saving me a ton of weight. (In fact the Lagom Mini 2 grinder is powered straight off USBC with no internal power.) For phones and cameras, that need their own power source, a replaceable battery is mostly just an end of life thing for me. Because I’d still have to carry a cable or spare battery around.
- inetknght 5mo agoThese things aren't mutually exclusive. Once upon a time, batteries were generic and fit some standard form-factor. You could swap batteries between devices and often did! You could even connect your device to a pack of batteries, and swap out the batteries within the pack.
- bmicraft 5mo ago240W max is very little when it comes to hearing up water, and most powerbanks don't even do more than 100W output. That's more in the range of those swappable tool batteries.
- 2muchcoffeeman 5mo agoThe Ikape Cera+ can heat water from room temp but it can’t do this many times. But in many environments you don’t have to heat from cold. There’s often a Zip tap or kettle to get you most of the way. But maybe the internal battery can deliver more power directly to the heating element.
- KingMachiavelli 5mo agoI don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it: highest power density, fastest charging, odd geometry, and tight space constraints. Manufacturers shrink the phone by offloading temperature monitoring and heat dissipation onto the phone's own electronics and housing — so replaceable, externally rechargeable batteries are tricky to design. IMO, swappable batteries were a feature because batteries used to suck. In less volume-constrained devices like cameras, swappable batteries still work — but you're trading single-charge runtime for that convenience. This last point is actually a real killer, an easily swappable battery in a phone probably sacrifices >10% "maximum" capacity in lost space. e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.
- 8note 5mo ago> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh. alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?
- Oxodao 5mo agoThinkpad T480, with dual battery was a really great idea
- numpad0 5mo agoThat brings back memories! Yes, many devices before iPhone had normalized internal batteries indeed had aftermarket extended batteries. They would come with matching bulged back covers to fit the significantly oversized battery.
- hdgvhicv 5mo ago
- eru 5mo agoThere are benefits and downsides. Consumers and companies can make these decisions just fine.
- cyberrock 5mo agoThe final law just makes replacing batteries more accessible (i.e. no glue or special screws), but it doesn't mandate battery packs. Also some devices like hearing aids are exempt. I question whether battery packs would be a good thing to bring back now. USB power banks have 100% interchangeability among many device classes, which is something that not even dry cell batteries achieved. I can choose to leave the house with or without a power bank and just rent one in my city (YMMV). Modern charging wattages are high enough that I don't miss shutting down my Nexus, changing the pack, then rebooting. It's tempting to say that this could be solved if battery sizes were standardized, but that would inevitably limit device dimensions. For example, I especially loathe how the 18650 has made almost all modern flashlights clunky. I would hate it if Apple pushes for a 4.5mm thick battery standard to kill all foldables because they don't want to enter the market and cannibalize their iPad demand.
- HenrikB 5mo agoAgree - I read this as it will be easy to replace the battery when it reaches its end of life and no longer can hold my charge. It will still take time to replace it, but that's okay since it'll only be done once every few years. It's not meant to re-introduce swappable battery packs, so you won't be able to carry spares on long trips etc.
- b112 5mo agoYou will when people sell mods for phones, such as a replacement back wth easy access. Or when phone manufacturers realise they may as well do so, at least on some models, because why not. And yes, the battery compartment can be waterproof with a rubber seal... but even so? Many would prefer battery swap to full waterproof, if that was the cost.
- usrusr 5mo agoThe trade-off between having the field-swappability feature and going the lean way (it's not just cheaper, also smaller, lighter, less to go wrong) shifts though: when regulation forces companies to go 20% of the way towards field swappability, more will take the bet that there might be a niche worth serving at the 100% mark. I still would not expect this to happen for mainstream phones, but other devices? There will more field swappability with the regulation that enforces layman replaceability then without.
- chromacity 5mo agoPhones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, but I guess it makes them look futuristic, which helps with sales. The same goes for highly-reflective, glossy screens. I guess I'm not gonna cry if that gets regulated away.
- kikokikokiko 5mo agoBullshit. This was the reason the industry gave for why they were removing battery replaceability support. Everybody hated it when it was first introduced, and to this day I only buy phones which have easily accessible ways to put a new battery on when the day comes. Fuck this BS of "people wanted thinner phones".
- techpression 5mo agoIt’s also very hard to make them resistant to water and dust, I really like that I can wash my iPhone in the sink and don’t have to worry about it getting wet in general. This is a lot harder to achieve with battery doors, especially if they need to be as big as a phone back.
- numpad0 5mo agoCompletely untrue and debunked ad nauseum. Rugged phones with removable batteries has vastly superior IP ratings. Glues go bad faster than O-rings used in removable batteries do. I've had water intrusion with an iPhone, and it drove a sales of a new display panel from myself. Not so much with an actual rugged phone.
- techpression 5mo agoRugged phones are so far removed from any consumer phone in terms of size and weight the comparison is about as apt as comparing military use laptops with a MacBook.
- theshrike79 5mo agoQuickswap batteries work for stateless devices. A camera doesn't care if you take the battery out, except for that sub-second bit when it's saving the photo. Otherwise it doesn't notice you swapping the battery at all. Modern phones are different because they are basically computers, and computers really don't like it when you just cut the power with no warning.
- iszomer 5mo agoSeparate battery modules can be subjected to obsolescence too, being hard pressed into finding a suitable replacement with similar specifications and which manufacturer that still makes them. I am on my 3rd Zenfone2 battery and it is definitely no longer in production..
- snowwrestler 5mo agoPeople do forget what it was like. Device battery life was way shorter and the manufacturer was incentivized to keep it that way because it sold more batteries. Devices all had proprietary batteries. If I had 3 devices on me, I was carrying 3x extra batteries, one+ per device. My Nikon D1H required 5 huge proprietary batteries to cover a day of shooting sports. Plus a battery for my BlackBerry, plus batteries for my headlamp. Devices were not waterproof except for a few expensive, complicated options. Upsell! My Canon waterproof camera came with a tube of silicon I had to dab on the battery compartment gasket every few times I charged it. Today devices are lighter, more water resistant, and easier to charge in the field—just bring one power bank. And you often don’t have to power off or stop using the device while it’s charging. This is not just a phone thing, even headlamps are moving toward a built-in battery for all the reasons above.
- jmaw 5mo agoHeadlamps for sensitive applications will ALWAYS involve a replaceable or external battery. Can't have your light going out when you are in a dangerous situation. When I used to rock climb, I always kept 3x AAA's taped to the strap in case the one I had in died. Never needed to use them, but made me much more confortable.
- snowwrestler 5mo agoA lithium ion headlamp plus power bank does the same thing for the same weight and more flexibility. You can also charge phone, InReach, cameras. You can decide what is most important use of power. That’s the standard these days. Another approach is to bring 2 charged headlamps. Again, same weight as an old headlamp + 3AAAs. But covers additional failures like breaking or dropping.
- craftkiller 5mo agoMy headlamp is waterproof and it has a replaceable 18650 battery without needing to dab silicon(e?) on it. It is also rechargeable over USB type-c so I have both the option to replace the physical battery or plug it in to charge that battery.
- 5mo ago