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Pope Francis has died
- CKMo 1y agoI genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
- jamesblonde 1y agoSame here. Although I grew up a Catholic and am now an atheist, my father counselled me that there were few institutions in the world that look after the downtrodden. The Catholic church has often not done that, but under Francis moved more towards that goal than any other time in recent history.
- B1FF_PSUVM 1y ago> look after the downtrodden. The Catholic church gifted all women indissoluble marriage, which was practiced by the Roman aristocracy as "confarreatio". This was trashed as soon as possible, and the trashing was billed as great progress.
- make3 1y agothis is terribly inaccurate. they teach gainst using birth control even in poor, AIDS ridden regions (see Mother Theresa in Africa), treat women as lesser beings (including not recognizing that marital rape is a thing), cause the mistreatment of queer and homosexual and trans people, etc etc
- inemesitaffia 1y agoAny Abrahamic religion that teaches otherwise isn't compatible with tradition or scripture period. Also the condom thing is false. Keep up to date.
- make3 1y agoI don't keep up to date with how slightly less random the fairy tales decided to be this year
- yodsanklai 1y ago> .. even as an atheist lots of christians didn't like him, considering he was too progressive
- conductr 1y agoI think these are two sides of the same coin
- kome 1y agoi saw this only on the internet tho, and mainly the english speaking internet, never in real life.
- inemesitaffia 1y agoThis just isn't true. Anyone who hangs around people who follow the church happenings would know even if they were in support of his actions.
- numbers_guy 1y agoOnly American Protesting Catholics had issues with him. The same ones that post Deus Vult memes on Facebook.
- gambiting 1y agoPlenty(well, some) Catholics in Poland had an issue with him for the exact same reason - just way too progressive for them. Although I do think that American Catholics are particularly.....fervent in their beliefs.
- somenameforme 1y agoLook up some numbers, his approval ratings outside of America were rapidly declining (at least in Latin America). [1] Interestingly the US is the one place where his approval ratings didn't decline over time, probably owing to the perfectly divided nature of contemporary politics. As he lost support from one side he gained it in equal proportions from the other. But in places like Argentina, his birth place no less, his approval rating dropped 27 points as he got increasingly involved in Progressive stuff. [1] - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/26/how-people-in-latin-america-and-the-u-s-view-pope-francis/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/26/how-peopl...
- dredmorbius 1y agoA prevalent sentiment. I'd researched popes' policies and statements toward the poor some years back, and he really had no peer going back centuries. Partial exception in the late 1900s, under Leo XIII (1878--1903), in the encyclical Rerum novarum.
- andrepd 1y agoRerum Novarum was the basis of catholic social teaching since, so... But yes, one thing is statements another is actions, regarding the latter the Latin Church's actions have often not been in keeping with their lofty writings.
- black_13 1y ago[dead]
- glimshe 1y agoI'm not religious either, but was educated in a Jesuit school. He brought a well needed breath of fresh air to the church. He was a pope for our times. Let's see if the church will be able to make another strong selection to replace him.
- amarcheschi 1y ago[dead]
- heresie-dabord 1y agoHe riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". [0] I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/Pope-Francis-Even-Atheists-Can-Be-Redeemed https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/...
- kergonath 1y ago> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness? (And by "interesting", I mean that it is yet another of example cognitive dissonance amongst fundamentalists. If anyone can be redeemed, it implies that atheists can, as well.) > I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. Indeed. He was not perfect but he was better than most. I hope the next one won’t be a catholic version of patriarch Kirill.
- codr7 1y agoMind explaining your issues with Kirill? Haven't really been paying attention. Wasn't he the one who got Russia into defending persecuted Christians wherever (Syria etc)?
- kergonath 1y ago[flagged]
- hylaride 1y agoRead up on him more. He's essentially former KGB that was originally assigned to keep an eye on the token remnants of the church in Soviet Russia. He's now saying the war against Ukraine is "holy and justified", signing up to fight is "guaranteed to wipe away your sins", etc. He's designed to manipulate a segment of the population. He's Putin's method to "religiously justify" whatever Putin wants.
- libertine 1y ago[flagged]
- code_for_monkey 1y ago[flagged]
- snozolli 1y agoUkraine is fighting to defend its land, not against an extermination campaign like Palestine False. Russia has sought the cultural genocide of Ukraine for hundreds of years. https://ukraineworld.org/en/articles/basics/linguicide-ukrainian-russia https://ukraineworld.org/en/articles/basics/linguicide-ukrai... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-history-of-subjugating-ukraine/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-history-of-subjugating-... https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/04/23/russia-ukraine-cultural-genocide-looting-indoctrination-deporatation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/04/23/russia-ukraine-cultural... https://academic.oup.com/jicj/article/21/2/233/7197410 https://academic.oup.com/jicj/article/21/2/233/7197410 https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/why-russias-war-ukraine-genocide https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/why-russias-war-ukrai... This is why they fire missiles at museums and libraries. This is why they steal Ukrainian children and ship them to Russia for adoption. This is why they deport Ukrainian citizens to Siberia and bring in Russians to replace them.
- libertine 1y ago[flagged]
- fooList 1y ago[flagged]
- code_for_monkey 1y ago[flagged]
- linsomniac 1y ago"An athiest doesn't believe in 2,000 gods, a Christian doesn't believe in 1,999 gods." -- Ricky Gervais
- mrangle 1y agoRicky is smart, but not smart enough.
- Capricorn2481 1y agoMaybe not, but dismissing this quote outright is to dismiss something fundamental to our psychology, and our history.
- mrangle 1y agoI'm dismissing it on its lack of logic (not smart enough), even though it has a superficial patina of logic (smart). That is, I don't find it fundamental to our psychology nor history. To address your perspective. It's an atheists view, sure. It assumes that if one god is real, then all gods must be real. Because in the mind of the atheist, all are equal in that they are imaginary or, at best, avatars of psychological phenomena. It necessarily assumes the inverse logic that if 1,999 gods are fake, then 2,000 gods must be fake. Again, because they are all fundamentally equal. And therefore it is the Christians that are illogical because they have dismissed 1999 gods as fake but couldn't quite get there for the Last God Standing. I believe that's the sum of it. Which is a statement that about illustrates the intellectual limit for atheism. I will give Ricky credit for that much. Where Ricky's quip stops and Christian logic starts is that Christians know that their singular God is not imaginary nor an avatar, but is a living being. With the figurative 1999 additional gods indeed being either imaginary, psychological avatars, or worse. Which is clear to the Christian, because he understands something singularly fundamental about Christianity's God that others may not. This fundamental characteristic, at minimum, is the difference between real and fake. At which point the atheist would quip that there is no logic to see the Christian God as different from the other 1999 Gods, and as concrete. The Christian would finish up with telling the atheist that their failure to see the difference is a failure in being able to interpret the Bible, a failure in being able to interpret the Christian religion, and a failure to understand their own nature including from where they come. Some of this lack of understanding on the part of atheists is rooted in a lack of perspective that is otherwise glaringly true, and a lack of logical rigor. In other words, they take too many lies on faith. The conversation frequently continues with a debate over supposed proofs rooted in belief (faith) for atheists. With the Christian making more general appeals to their own faith that is rooted in Biblical and religious interpretation, ideally combined with their own verifying observations about the nature of the World. Or, for those who have blindly committed based on instinct, then just appeals to faith alone. Which is also acceptable, because it is a correct instinct. Being a Christian doesn't hinge on knowledge alone. It hinges on faith. There are good reasons for this state of affairs. What both sides will agree on is that he who believes in the least lies "wins" so to speak. The process of parsing being roughly parallel to discovering the rules of a game. The disagreement is over the substance of the lies. What Judeo-Christianity does is attempt to convey those rules in clear-enough language, even if the motivation to follow them is solely based on faith. With deeper Bible reading often being revelatory for greater insight. Whereas the atheist dismisses the traditional rules out of lack of faith and lack of understanding, and often then devolves into inventing his own rules. Which is specifically against the rules, but does align with the atheist's chaos theory of his own existence.
- dkarl 1y agoHe felt like a throwback to me, in a good way. He reminded me of a time when Christians weren't so afraid of being subsumed by the secular progressive mainstream, when they could still see love and forgiveness as the core of their faith.
- yoyohello13 1y agoHe is one of the few religious leaders who actually gave me a positive view of religion. He seemed like a really great human.
- basisword 1y agoWith most figureheads there will be words or actions with which you disagree. But his rejection of the 'riches' that came with the job, especially in the early days will hopefully outlast him.
- Mr_Eri_Atlov 1y agoRest in Peace to a dude who actually lived his beliefs
- thimkerbell 1y agoWhich churches come closest to Pope Francis's teachings and worldview? Ones that have both in-person and online services.
- thimkerbell 1y agoWhat I don't know is how & what his approach does when it encounters gang stuff, how well it works there.
- jawns 1y agoI'm going to go out on a limb and suggest ... the Catholic Church! Which _other_ churches besides the Catholic Church? Well, Catholicism is more encompassing than many people are aware of. For instance, you might have heard of the "Roman Catholic Church." Besides the Roman Catholic Church, aka the Latin Church (which primarily uses the Roman Rite), there are 23 Eastern Catholic Churches, each with their own liturgical traditions, theological emphases, and cultural heritage. All of them are in full communion with the Pope. Note: While many Catholic parishes do offer live-streamed services, for the benefit of the sick and homebound, they do not fulfill the Sunday obligation to attend Mass if you are able to do so in person.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 1y agoThere are many different orders of Catholic priests, but Pope Francis was a Jesuit and his teachings reflected that. Many of the Catholic universities (and even high schools) in the Americas were founded by Jesuits. Popping into the church connected to your nearest Catholic university is a good bet, but you can probably find a Jesuit priest nearby even if you aren't in the Americas.
- hcaz 1y ago> Pope Francis died on Easter Monday, April 21, 2025, at the age of 88 at his residence in the Vatican's Casa Santa Marta. > Pope Francis has died at the age of 88, the Vatican has announced. - Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio was elected to lead the Catholic Church in March 2013 after Pope Benedict XVI stood down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crknlnzlrzdt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crknlnzlrzdt
- haunter 1y agoRIP. His speech yesterday (he dictated it I guess) was very very political, not on the usual level, felt like a finally "all out" for me. https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/urbi/documents/20250420-urbi-et-orbi-pasqua.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/urbi/do...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tetris11 1y ago> I express my closeness to the sufferings of Christians in Palestine and Israel, and to all the Israeli people and the Palestinian people. The growing climate of anti-Semitism throughout the world is worrisome. Yet at the same time, I think of the people of Gaza, and its Christian community in particular, where the terrible conflict continues to cause death and destruction and to create a dramatic and deplorable humanitarian situation. I appeal to the warring parties: call a ceasefire, release the hostages and come to the aid of a starving people that aspires to a future of peace!
- hersko 1y agoTangentially related: why do so many people call for a ceasefire, when a ceasefire is generally temporary. It wouldn't resolve any of the underlying reasons for the war. He should be calling for surrender.
- kelnos 1y agoWho should surrender, though? At this point in time, if Hamas were to surrender, the Israeli occupation of Gaza would just get worse. That wouldn't be peace, or justice, for people of Gaza. I certainly don't support what Hamas has done, but Israeli rule will probably be pretty brutal for Palestinians.
- robertoandred 1y agoIsrael hasn't occupied Gaza for 20 years.
- geff82 1y agoGod bless him. Religion aside, his encyclicas covering more earthly subjects (Fratelli Tuti, Laudato Si) are really worth to be read. Download and read them as PDF in the language of your choice, no matter what your religious views are.
- niea_11 1y agoFratelli tutti : https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/docu... Laudato si : https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20150524_enciclica-laudato-si.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/docu...
- seydor 1y agoWe live in cynical times, i hope his passing reminds people that narratives and morals matter
- vintagedave 1y agoFrom his statement yesterday: > May the principle of humanity never fail to be the hallmark of our daily actions. In the face of the cruelty of conflicts that involve defenceless civilians and attack schools, hospitals and humanitarian workers, we cannot allow ourselves to forget that it is not targets that are struck, but persons, each possessed of a soul and human dignity. Yes. I agree with you and hope so too.
- usrusr 1y ago"Think of those souls!" reads to me cynically close to "don't think of those who ordered and executed those strikes". Almost like a deliberate distraction. When you turn forgiveness into a carte blanche for serial sin, you're doing Christianity wrong.
- mcphage 1y agoI think it’s more, he’s speaking to those who order and execute such strikes.
- basisword 1y agoI interpret it very differently from you. Modern warfare is directing drones at 'targets' based on 'intelligence' with little regard for the collateral damage. We see it daily in the news in various conflicts: children killed in strikes with the excuse being that bad guys were also in the vicinity - zero regard for the innocents. It' a reminder that just because you don't have to see the destruction you cause (thanks to modern technology) innocents are still being killed by your actions and you shouldn't forget that (and maybe should reconsider your actions).
- ByThyGrace 1y agoI've always interpreted the line of message you refer to as an intent to reach the hearts of those responsible for commanding the violence, including those who assign responsibility to them. And if it did reach, and ellicited the intended emotion, then such violence would simply stop. (FWIW I'm atheist, always been.)
- voidwtf 1y ago[flagged]
- spwa4 1y agoIf anything this speech tried it's best to counter Vance and Trump's political opinions. Let's hope it matters.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dudefeliciano 1y agothe conspiracy minded were convinced he already died weeks ago but they also thought he was the anti-pope so it's whatever
- 0xEF 1y agoI'm not even a tin-hatter and that is immediately where my mind went when I saw the headline. Vance and his ilk are so incredibly near-sighted that it would bolster them to think they could plot such a thing and play it off as a coincidence.
- tomhow 1y agoWe detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43749471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43749471 and marked it offtopic. Please adhere to the guidelines, particularly these ones: Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.
- mrtksn 1y agoThat was a likable pope, non-christians and even non religious people tend to like the guy. I also enjoyed the memes about his lookalike in Game of Thrones. Rest in peace.
- perfider 1y ago[flagged]
- dudefeliciano 1y agoYou consider yourself christian?
- perfider 1y ago[flagged]
- redczar 1y agoThe most Protestant people in the world are American Catholics.
- kome 1y agoahahah, this is so true. American Catholicism is honestly so weird, at least the version I see online. I guess in real life, it’s more level-headed.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- bee_rider 1y agoIt is sort of regional anyway. In the Northeast we have Irish Catholics; they are very level-headed headed for the most part.
- hliyan 1y agoI wonder whether we will have another Jesuit Pope. Jesuits are supposed to be generally very education focused, more progressive (especially w.r.t science) and stand less on ceremony. I know nothing about how the College of Cardinals work, but if they're anything like other political voting bodies, one of two outcomes are possible: a swing to the Right (and toward tradition), recognizing the current balance of power in the world, or a swing even further Left of Francis, again recognizing the current trend but as a counterweight.
- wwilim 1y agoGiven how changes of power tend to swing nowadays, I am afraid I guessed it right (pun not intentional)
- dudefeliciano 1y agothe film Conclave did a very good job at showing the politics and conflicts within the catholic church
- grandempire 1y agoI think that is merely skin deep - Catholicism provided an interesting setting or scenery for a story, rather than being the subject.
- dudefeliciano 1y agoi think that is intendeded; it's not a movie about catholicism but about politics and human nature. What I meant is that it shows the internal workings of the papal election and the conflicts within the catholic church that may be unknown to laypeople.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- grandempire 1y agoOn second thought I think you’re right. The layperson can become more aware of religious politics, because there is so little exposure. I hope the next step is for people to understand that religious problems are actually people problems. And similar themes and tendencies appear in modern secular contexts.
- Shacklz 1y agoRIP. He was a likable guy with the heart in the right place, always struck me as deeply humble. The world would be better off if many a leader these days, religious or otherwise, would be a bit more like him.
- StefanBatory 1y ago:( And for political side - in Poland, he was seen as way too leftist/liberal for the conservatives in Church, and too pro-Russian for the liberals in it - he had not condemned Russian invasion of Ukraine.
- consumer451 1y agoThis was a very interesting thing to witness. It seemed to indicate that politics is more powerful than religion, even in a country as religious as Poland. I found this surprising and genuinely thought-provoking.
- StefanBatory 1y agoI had been talking with my conservative colleagues - they were deeply unhappy with him on stance of migration, LGBT issues, or even very recent - his talk with Vance, whom they support (American politics are just so big that it has effect on us even across the ocean). Then, from religious point of view - they didn't really like his ecumenism approach, to them it was borderline of heresy.
- consumer451 1y agoI was born in, and currently live in Poland. It truly blows my mind that any Polish person could side with a foreign political party that openly sides with moscow over Ukraine and even Poland. Political alignment is truly the strongest drug for many people.
- ptero 1y agoWhile I support Ukraine and would like to see a stronger, more unified front from the collective West, making this the only question that matters in Polish politics seems wrong. My 2c.
- StefanBatory 1y agoAlso, while I think that barring a fringe part of society, everyone would agree, the fun part is, how do you get to people to agree who's pro-Russian or not ;) Of course, this is for local parties, but go to /r/Poland and /r/Polska and ask them, what parties are pro-Russian. Then to Wykop, both Mikroblog and frontpage, and see the reactions. Same thing will apply here.
- lagrange77 1y agoI can imagine that for people of faith there is a lot to be read into the time of death.
- dredmorbius 1y agoSeveral ways.
- mjh2539 1y agoFor the superstitious perhaps, but not for those that have the virtue of religion! https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14339a.htm https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14339a.htm
- antognini 1y agoThe last three popes have all died during the Octave of Easter or Christmas.
- dredmorbius 1y agoOne of the last three popes is not yet dead ;-)
- dredmorbius 1y agoI stand corrected. Benedict XVI died in December 2022. I'd somehow missed that. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI>
- mschuster91 1y agoMay he rest in peace.
- carlos-menezes 1y agohttps://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis-dies-on-easter-monday-aged-88.html https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis... > According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ. Always struck me as a simple man and that likely contributed to people liking him more when compared to his predecessors. RIP.
- jjude 1y agoPope John Paul II was also extremely popular across the world.
- carlos-menezes 1y agoHe was, but John Paul II was traditionally conservative. I think Francis resonated with more people–Christian or not–because he emphasized compassion, humility, and social justice. He spoke more openly about issues like poverty, climate change, and inclusion–his encyclical LAUDATO SI’ is a great read–, and he often used language and gestures that the "common man" could relate to. Perhaps the way he dressed so simply–with the plain white cassock–also emphasized his overall approach: less focus on grandeur, more on service.
- bootsmann 1y agoDidn’t JPII rebuild the curia so that progressive popes like Francis could get closer to the keys of power?
- bonzini 1y agoYes and no. He was at the same time very open to being "part of the world" beyond the church, but also very conservative in ethics. In the end the former prevailed also in terms of progressiveness, but it wasn't a given.
- emmelaich 1y ago
- nabla9 1y ago[flagged]
- arrowsmith 1y ago[flagged]
- nektro 1y agoRIP, i hope it was peaceful. he was such a good leader and force within the church.
- tomhow 1y agoAll: The topic of this thread is the passing of a significant public figure. Discussion should be primarily focused on thoughtful reflections on the life of that person, and his influence on the institution he represented and the broader world. Generic commentary about the institution, religion in general, or other public figures or issues, is likely off topic.* Before commenting, please take a moment to consider whether your comment is within the HN guidelines [1], particularly the first two: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. (*Edited in response to community feedback.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throw310822 1y ago[flagged]
- mschuster91 1y ago[flagged]
- d3ckard 1y agoWith all due respect, massacring civilians because “you have no other choice” is historically not an excuse holding up in courts. Israel has enormous advantage over Palestinians and while I don’t mind them waging war with Hamas, indiscriminate bombing is not ok and never will be.
- mschuster91 1y ago> With all due respect, massacring civilians because “you have no other choice” is historically not an excuse holding up in courts. The thing is, under the rules of war, protected installations (such as residential areas or even hospitals) lose their protection if they are being abused by a warring party for military operations. Otherwise, it would be an open invitation for anyone to do what Hamas did - force the other party between either risking getting shot at or violating rules of war. No one forced Hamas to embed themselves among civilians. They did that on their own.
- matusp 1y agoDo rules of war apply here? Israel does not even consider Palestine to be a state.
- gghhzzgghhzz 1y ago> protected installations (such as residential areas or even hospitals) lose their protection if they are being abused by a warring party for military operations You should maybe research where key millitary apparatus of the Israeli state is located. The headquarters of the IDF for example.
- wwilim 1y ago[flagged]
- lukaslalinsky 1y agoThat's a generalization that does not help the vision of the world he had. Putin is the villain. Spreading the bad image of Russian people in general is not really helping anything. Even if the polls in Russia might show support for the war, it's mostly because everybody in Russia if afraid of speaking their opinion in public.
- Tade0 1y agoThey're not afraid, they're disinterested in politics as long as it doesn't affect their day to day life, so food and fuel prices remaining manageable. Putin is popular and has personal interest in remaining so, because otherwise Russian elites will find themselves a new Putin.
- ashoeafoot 1y agoPutin is a product of Russian culture. To deny discussions about failed, catastrophic nurture equals handing the debate via silence back to the racist and nature. Ignoring the patterns by paying attention only to conflicts with the west / clichees involved gets your ideas bankrupt . Empires in all incarnations are pure evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russi...
- kome 1y agoBergoglio was a South American intellectual. He could recognize a proxy war when he saw one. That's why his account of the war was a tad more complex and articulated than that of the average liberal Anglo.
- aredox 1y agoHe even sees a proxy war when there is none... Let me make this clear for you: Russia invaded Ukraine, and wants to erase the existence of Ukraine. Russia steals Ukrainian grain and agricultural machines. Russia destroys Ukrainian museums and any historical artefact related to Ukrainian writers. Russia steals ukrainian children to raise them as russians. Russia is engaged in open genocidal elimination of Ukraine. They speak about it openly, they write about it, they issue press releases about it. There is no proxy there. Russia is doing all of this by themselves.
- BargirPezza 1y agoRIP, I have given Francis my prayers for his soul and his close ones and everyone who saw him as a leader and a holy figure. God can use anything for the good <3
- d3ckard 1y agoI think he will be mostly remembered as a terrible politician, first alienating conservatives with progressive policy and then alienating liberals with very questionable opinions on war in Ukraine. In the end, nobody was really happy with him. On the other hand, he definitely had a will and a spine to stick to his own opinions - I guess that counts for something.
- matusp 1y agoI don't think that US conservatives and liberals are were the center of gravity of papal policy is.
- d3ckard 1y agoUS doesn’t have a monopoly on those words and I am not even American.
- pyfon 1y agoA good politician is a people pleaser?
- d3ckard 1y agoA good politician is able to garner support to enact change.
- dredmorbius 1y agoA comment I'd heard some time back concerned a politician. The speaker (not a politician themselves, but recalling an interaction with one) had said to the politician something like "I suppose you want to win with the biggest majority possible". The politician responded along the lines of, "No, that would mean I wasn't doing my job; if I'm really pushing the limits of the possible I'll have just the barest majority." People pleasing in politics means never pushing out of the public's comfort zone. (And no, this isn't an endorsement of any current orange head of state, far from it.)
- deletedie 1y ago
- speedylight 1y agoMay he rest in peace
- MichaelMoser123 1y ago[flagged]
- zerobrainwash 1y ago[flagged]
- Ygg2 1y ago> The line between good and evil is very clear in this case. Edit parent meant Ukraine war, not the Israel conflict quote Pope had.
- zerobrainwash 1y agoApologies, I meant Ukraine war, should have been more clear, it is that simple there.
- stdclass 1y agoyour username is peak irony, considering your statement
- niemandhier 1y agoThat is a great and underused method of evaluating moral judgments and I believe that it’s very suitable in this particular case. I do not have much hope that Palestinians would behave “better” according to any sensible measure of the word. I would conjecture that many governments would position themselves differently and that criticism would face less obstacles. In the end it would be as much of a catastrophe.
- jtrip 1y ago>That is a great and underused method of evaluating moral judgments and I believe that it’s very suitable in this particular case. It also dilutes the current and very real responsibilities of the 'effectors'. In saying 'they would have done the same' it becomes very easy to justify the unjustifiable.
- jtrip 1y agoIt would be different materially. The rallying cry would be different for one. No matter who did it, it would still be 'evil'. There would be 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Specially when the labels would be applied to dead children and innocents under rubble. Everyone keeps forgetting them. Just because you think they would do the same to you, does not justify your actions.
- agnishom 1y agoInterestingly, [X has died] seems to be among some of the topmost upvoted posts of HN. (Based on https://hn.algolia.com/ https://hn.algolia.com/)
- throwawaysad123 1y ago[flagged]
- Teever 1y agoThere were recent posts about George Foreman and Val Kilmer dying. The way these rules are enforced is pretty hit and miss. With that said I think that the pope dying is a subject worth discussing on HN. It's unfortunate that it seems to be descending into a flame war about Israel though.
- throwawaysad123 1y agoI don't get it. There are nearly unlimited forums where these deaths, especially the pope, are being actively discussed. Why do we need it here? Hacker News was once a place focused on sharing news you wouldn't find most other places. Is it time to update the guidelines?
- ptero 1y agoHN focuses on fostering thoughtful discussion by curious people on anything those folks find interesting. Technology naturally bubbles up, but it is far from the only thing on HN. This focus on people is to me, is WAY better than theme-based filtering (compare with many subreddit cesspools).
- tomhow 1y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750046
- mentalgear 1y agoFrancis stood for values over positions and ranks, which was a real revolution. I sincerely hope the new pope will be as human, humble and pushing for renewal as Francis. I think that after such a pope, people won't be satisfied with just another symbolic figure with empty gestures, hard conservative views and no real substance.
- aubanel 1y agoAre you pointing to another pope with "another symbolic figure with empty gestures"? Would be clearer to name him then! Having read a bit of the previous pope Benedict XVI I liked a lot what he did/wrote
- code_for_monkey 1y agowhat about Benedict did you like?
- aubanel 1y agoIf only one thing it's his series of books Jesus of Nazareth: the only theology book I've ever read, it clarified so much about the Scriptures, and was written from the point of view of a world-class scholar, much more scientific than I would have thought, taking into account the views of other scholars, Jew, Protestant or atheists alike, as long as they had interesting ideas.
- ckdot 1y agoWhy is this posted on HN, even twice? It’s not like other news sources won’t announce this. The pope had its good and bad sides, but in the end we should remind ourselves he’s just a human being. It’s OK for HN to inform about people here, but shouldn’t they be somehow related to any topics HN touches? The popes was just a guy who somehow got popular because of some quite successful religion - but I’d personally prefer keep religion out of HN.
- erikig 1y agoHe was the head of one of the largest and oldest institutions that was working to handle its successes and failures as it worked to modernize.
- cebert 1y agoI concur. I believe that political and religious discussions are better suited for other platforms rather than HN. I am not particularly interested in the Pope, if I were, I could find coverage of the topic on mainstream news sources. There’s nothing interesting here from a technical or startup perspective.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- tomhow 1y agoIt's conventional for there to be a thread on HN when a major pubic figure dies. If you look at the list of obituary posts on HN [1], several of the biggest were for politicians, royals, and others unrelated to computer science and technology. It's in keeping with the convention that stories that have "significant new information" are on topic for HN, and that includes major mainstream news stories when they first break. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=%22has+died%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?q=%22has+died%22
- heresie-dabord 1y agoCheers! Good idea to provide the search example with Algolia!
- 1y ago
- tanepiper 1y agohttps://newsthump.com/2025/04/21/pope-loses-will-to-live-after-meeting-jd-vance/ https://newsthump.com/2025/04/21/pope-loses-will-to-live-aft...
- fleabitdev 1y agoLast year, an interviewer asked Francis how he envisages hell. His response stayed with me: “It’s difficult to imagine it. What I would say is not a dogma of faith, but my personal thought: I like to think hell is empty; I hope it is.”
- eqmvii 1y agoA much more hopeful version than “Hell is empty, and all the devils are here”!
- code_for_monkey 1y agoLOL Ill say! Far more positive
- fastball 1y agoNothing from the Bible indicates that hell is empty, so that is indeed an interesting response from the Pope.
- fleabitdev 1y agoYes - I think it caught my attention because it was such a mystery. It was a welcome thing to hear from one of the most powerful people in the world, but it came like a bolt from the blue. As far as I know, he never revisited the topic.
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- code_for_monkey 1y agoits not biblical but its very catholic, its optimistic. I've heard it from other catholics, its just a hope that at the end of everyones life they accepted jesus and made it into heaven.
- 1y ago
- black_13 1y ago[dead]
- uncomplexity_ 1y agoRIP to the coolest pope. May we live his consistent reminder of refraining from hurting and hating each other regardless of country, race, religion, politics, etc.
- russellbeattie 1y ago[flagged]
- basisword 1y agoWhat "public relations games" are they playing? He was out in public yesterday afternoon. And they announced the death a few hours after it happened. The death of a Pope will get maximum media coverage regardless of the time or day it happens - it's going to be headline news for weeks.
- dudefeliciano 1y ago> definitely that's a dubious theory based on no evidence at all
- AStonesThrow 1y agoNo, he passed away on the second day of Easter: Easter Monday. Easter Sunday represents the beginning of a long season. There is first an Octave celebrated: eight days, each very much like Easter Sunday itself. Once the Octave ends, it is still “Eastertide” or the Second Week of Easter. Pentecost marks the 50th day, (inclusive), and the end of the Easter season, but sets off a rather remarkable chain of new holy days. So I will be around, wishing you a Happy Easter, even during June +<(:-)-X
- mjomaa 1y agoJust saw him yesterday in the carriage in Vatican City.
- tsimionescu 1y agoWe know with absolute certainty that he died soon after Easter. Literally tens of thousands of people saw with their own eyes that he was alive yesterday (and billions saw it on TV). Exactly when he died between the end of his public appearance and the announcement is hard to know, but also ultimately irrelevant. This would be the biggest topic of discussion in Europe, Africa, and the Americas at the very least regardless of when it happened. And, if there were some goal to increase news coverage in Asia, where there are relatively fewer Christians as a percentage of the population, the announcement (9:45 in Italy) was somewhat late in the middle of the day, at least for China (about 14:45 in China, when everyone is at work and not watching news, either on TV or social media). So you are being entirely silly.
- KnuthIsGod 1y agoThis atheist admired him and read his Encylicals.
- phtrivier 1y agoCondoléances. I wonder if a Pope's funeral can serve as an occasion for backdoor diplomacy - the world needs a lot of that. If the next Pope is young and energetic, he may want to use his first few days making a mark in history by putting people from different side of different conflicts. Paraxodically, he may have more chance putting the Israelis and Palestinian around a table (or at least provide the optics for a deal that would be discussed in the usual boring transactional way.) On the other hand, one has to wonder what a populist pope would do (interfere in elections ? Make a u turn on climate, migrants, etc... ? Go back to hardcore conservatism ? Or fall into irrelevance ?)
- yoavm 1y agoIn my early 20s I was part of secular and socialist Jewish research centre. Franciskus was just voted as the new pope, and my first assignment was to write an opinion paper about him, and forecast his future actions. I don't think anyone, including myself, expected that I'll end up with a positive report — religion was almost always a negative thing, and Catholic Christianity even more so. However, I concluded that his action seem to show that he cares more for people rather than for specific rules or biblical quotes. That he is flexible and open to changing things. In retrospect, I think the whole world benefited from his openness. I wish we could say that about other influential religious leaders.
- krapp 1y ago[flagged]
- ConspiracyFact 1y agoIf we ever reach the point where we aren't interested specifically in what prominent elders have to say, we're screwed.
- krapp 1y agoNot every "prominent elder" deserves respect. Certainly not on the basis that men in a smoke filled room elected them the infallible avatar of a God that most people don't even believe in. People are in awe of this latest Pope because his morals were essentially normal and not medieval. The Pope was just a guy in a robe. The world would be much better off if we listened to scientists and scholars - people who at least earned the authority with which they speak - the way we listen to priests.
- jl6 1y agoFrancis would have been the first to call himself just a guy in a robe. I’m an atheist and don’t find it difficult to listen to people of all faiths put forward moral philosophy, and I can identify parts that I agree with even if I might disagree that there is any supernatural basis for them. There’s a wide world of thought available that is simply outside the remit of science, and there is a lot to be gained from listening to people who have spent their lives dedicated to that domain, even if some of it is wrong, and even if none of it is founded in peer-reviewed academic papers.
- j_maffe 1y agoHe's mainly prominent for the his role in an archaic cult. I'm not sure what we gain with giving special interest to anyone in such roles
- Rzor 1y agoYes, we should, but despite our current state, the pontiff can still generate momentum for progressive global policies, and in that regard, Pope Francis was a breath of fresh air.
- fforflo 1y agoIn 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read: > This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “sea of memories” to be transformed into a “sea of forgetfulness”. Please brothers and sisters, let us stop this shipwreck of civilization! > We are in the age of walls and barbed wire. To be sure, we can appreciate people’s fears and insecurities, the difficulties and dangers involved, and the general sense of fatigue and frustration, exacerbated by the economic and pandemic crises. Yet problems are not resolved and coexistence improved by building walls higher, but by joining forces to care for others according to the concrete possibilities of each and in respect for the law, always giving primacy to the inalienable value of the life of every human being Worth reading in full https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2021/december/documents/20211205-grecia-rifugiati.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2021/de...
- contrarian1234 1y agoWith no opinion one way or another on the pope.. In the modern world this is a weird criteria to judge people on. I assume like every modern politician, he doesn't write his own speeches. A quite google search seems to confirm it https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/does-the-pope-write-his-own-speeches https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/does-the-pope-write-his-o...
- ralfd 1y agoThe link says: > My suspicion is that Pope Francis may have more to do with crafting his own speeches than did previous pontiffs, because Pope Francis’ talks strike me as more spontaneous, conversational, and unfiltered. Anyway, a public figure is still giving the direction and “plot points” to their speech writer.
- wat10000 1y agoWho cares? He said it. The words are his responsibility. If his speech had advocated for grinding orphans into a nutritious paste, we wouldn’t be defending him on the basis that he didn’t write those words. He chose to read them and give them his official backing.
- soliax 1y ago[flagged]
- 7bit 1y ago@tomhow I understand the intention behind keeping the thread respectful, especially in the context of someone’s death. That said, I find it difficult to fully separate reflections on Pope Francis from reflections on the institution he led. The papacy is not just a personal role—it is deeply representative of the Catholic Church as an institution, with all the historical and present-day weight that carries. It also stands out to me that similar moderation reminders don't usually appear in threads about other public figures. That gives the impression that this topic is being treated as more sensitive or "untouchable" than others, and I think it's fair to question why that is. I'm all for thoughtful conversation, but part of that includes being able to engage critically with the institutions and roles that public figures embody—even in moments like this.
- heresie-dabord 1y ago> similar moderation reminders don't usually appear in threads about other public figures. Friend, this is not true. "dang" himself has often exhorted posters in this same manner and language when a notable death may attract inconsiderate commentary. See the search link provided by tomhow in this branch of the same discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43749405#43750046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43749405#43750046
- tomhow 1y agoIt may be unusual for this kind of reminder to be posted on an obituary thread, but it's not so unusual for it to be posted on a thread about a religious topic. There's nothing to read into this other than we all know that religion is a topic that elicits strong reactions in people and is one of the most frequent topics of bitter argument, and that's just the thing we're trying to avoid on HN. It's fine to talk about the larger institution he led; please just keep to the HN guidelines, which apply equally to all threads on HN, and which, in particular, ask us to be thoughtful and substantive, and to avoid generic tangents. (I've edited my top comment, to clarify what I think should be deemed on/off topic.)
- Alifatisk 1y agoIt feels kinda wrong to like this post
- goku12 1y agoSome of the highest voted stories on HN are related to someone's passing. Think of the upvotes less as a 'like' and more as 'paying respects'.
- mirekrusin 1y agoIt's called "upvote", not "like".
- Alifatisk 1y agoOkey
- caseyy 1y agoPope Francis has done much to transform the Catholic church into a more progressive and inclusive institution. If not for his papacy, it was somewhat likely that the church would drift too far from Millennial values to keep its former relevance. Hopefully, the next pope will also champion unity, inclusivity, and peace, and oppose religious dogmatism. This will define the future of Christianity. Many challenges remain for the institution.
- decimalenough 1y agoThere's been much talk of the Church finally electing a black Pope from sub-Saharan Africa. The irony is that, if they are inclusive enough to do so, the selected Pope will almost certainly be more hard-line and doctrinaire than any of his recent predecessors on issues like homosexuality. Here's one of the contenders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sarah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sarah
- caseyy 1y agoOf the current widely accepted papabili, Peter Turkson is from Sub-Saharan Africa. He is softly pro-LGBT, and he seeks to harmonize the progressive homosexuality views with traditional African culture[0]. I don't think Robert Sarah is considered papabile, possibly owing to his message of hate for homosexuality. Overall, it's inconsistent with the recent message of the church, and it is hard to imagine that progressive Catholics would accept it. Here's a Reuters list for possible Francis successors: https://www.reuters.com/world/who-might-succeed-pope-francis-some-possible-candidates-2025-04-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/who-might-succeed-pope-francis.... Usually, Reuters does thorough due diligence before releasing something. So I'd expect their predictions are accurate. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson
- lores 1y agoInteresting that they identify mostly progressives as papabile. If they're right, Francis did an excellent job behind the scenes to set up the Church to do in the future what he could not in the present.
- felipeerias 1y agoHe wasn’t an intellectual giant like his predecessor and I disagreed with some of his positions, but at the end of the day I do think that he was a good man. May he rest in peace.
- sunshine-o 1y agoRest in peace. When I think about it being the Pope is quite a position, probably the most unique in our world? You have to be: - A head of state, meaning taking positions though UN votes, etc. - A "CEO", there is a lot of "business" decision to be taken to run the Vatican and the Church. I mean the Vatican can be seen as a giant museum (no offense) with a lot of people flowing in everyday so that need to be managed. - But first he is a religious, spiritual leader and has to steer its evolution. - Many also still see him steering an entire civilisation. Whether you are a Catholic or not, he is at the center of something. Tough job...
- decimalenough 1y agoMinor correction: the Vatican is a UN observer member, meaning it does not have voting rights.
- erelong 1y ago[dead]
- Muskisapuss 1y ago[flagged]
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- codr7 1y agoI guess we're just waiting for Peter the Roman now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes
- lordleft 1y agoI am a (non-catholic) Christian and I loved Pope Francis, for all the hate he won from traditionalists. He really seemed Christ-like, in his deep concern for the marginalized and poor. He never ceased to emphasize Jesus' saving power and good news. May he rest in peace and may he be with our Lord.
- wyclif 1y agoAlso not a Roman Catholic, but there were some good things about Pope Francis that I could appreciate, particularly his very Augustinian take on reason and the restlessness of the heart found in his lecture from the launch of the Spanish edition of Msgr. Luigi Giussani's book "The Religious Sense."
- fsiefken 1y agoA written version of Bergoglio's talk is published in chapter 7 of "Generative Thought: An Introduction to the Works of Luigi Giussani" by Elisa Buzzi, 2003 https://isidore.co/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Giussani's%20errors/Pope%20Francis%20on%20the%20Religious%20Sense.pdf https://isidore.co/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Giussani's%20errors/...
- wyclif 1y agoYes, thank you for sharing a link to the PDF. I see you are familiar with the literature. Yesterday I posted a couple of screencaps pointing to this: https://x.com/wyclif/status/1914276336690139440 https://x.com/wyclif/status/1914276336690139440
- losvedir 1y agoDoes anyone have any theories why his predecessor, Benedict, so shockingly resigned? (And then, according to this article, continued to live there, which was news to me). The conventional wisdom is that Benedict was a hardline, conservative nut who had to resign for unknown reasons and was replaced by this well-loved, progressive guy. As seen in this thread, lots of people liked him and his philosophy, and his progressive take on things which always made the news, as he focused on the poor and traveled the world. However, I've heard the conspiracy that Benedict was forced out, possibly related to his investigations into the child sex abuse scandal, maybe because he was finding important people involved. He was always very focused on the Church itself. And Francis was chosen, almost as a patsy, to end those investigations and instead be the friendly Pope out away from the Vatican. I just always thought Benedict's resignation was surprising and there was something more to the story.
- zamadatix 1y agoConventional wisdom is he attempted to resign 3 times, had a stroke, and had a pacemaker all before he spent a further 8 years of his career elected as pope and then actually resigned. This all extends decades prior to his final resignation, giving the same health and desire for retirement reasons as prior attempts. As for whether there was something more than the conventional wisdom to the story... I'm not really sure the news of his successors death is the correct thread to spawn that conversation in as it's getting to have little to do with Francis.
- losvedir 1y agoI think it's relevant. We're discussing the life and impact of Pope Francis. I'm speculating that he was chosen specifically for his outward focus. I'm a practicing but not terribly devout Catholic, and my impression of Benedict was that he was very formal and focused Pope on the Church itself (eg how we had to relearn all the prayers and responses in the Mass). Francis was much more about helping the poor of the world, and to my limited experience didn't affect Catholicism, with a Capital C, very much. His politics aligned with mine, so I didn't mind that so much, but I can't help thinking that all was very intentional, and that there be dragons lurking within the Vatican institution that are being ignored.
- jimmcslim 1y agoThe Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be “accompanied by an ethic inspired by a vision of the common good, an ethic of freedom, responsibility, and fraternity, capable of fostering the full development of people in relation to others and to the whole of creation.” * As Pope Francis observes, “in this age of artificial intelligence, we cannot forget that poetry and love are necessary to save our humanity.” * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” [1] https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_ddf_doc_20250128_antiqua-et-nova_en.html https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docu...
- timeon 1y ago> * As Pope Francis observes, “the very use of the word ‘intelligence’” in connection with AI “can prove misleading” Yes, LLMs are more about knowledge than intelligence. AK rather than AI.
- diggan 1y agoIllustrating perfectly how wide this conversation really is, as we don't even have consensus about what "knowledge" means :)
- moralestapia 1y agoWe do! https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/knowledge https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/knowledg...
- diggan 1y agoThe Cambridge Dictionary has its own internal consensus, true, but there are so many more ways people understand that specific word :) Wikipedia even has it's own page with some of the various definitions people use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_knowledge Then we have implicit/explicit knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_knowledge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_knowledg...) where some people assume one of them when they say "knowledge", others refer to the other. In fact, there is an entire scientific field to understanding what "knowledge" actually is/means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology So yeah, it isn't as simple as looking it up in a dictionary, unfortunately.
- contrarian1234 1y ago[flagged]
- UncleMeat 1y agoFrancis was both things. Within the scope of the Catholic Church he was progressive. His speeches were often in opposition to rising nationalism. He spoke about inclusion for people who haven't traditionally been included by the Church. In comparison to Benedict he was much more friendly to the global left. But he was also a Catholic. The Church remains a global enemy to LGBT rights and its position on birth control is a source of death and devastation from AIDS as you mention. And the Church remains committed to a system of gender inequality within its ranks. I do think that some of the lefty praise of Francis incorrectly ignores these problems. But also I'd rather have Francis than Benedict. It'll be interesting to see what happens next. Two years ago I would have said that the next pope would certainly be a reactionary that returns to a more rigid conservatism. But with Trump elected and the rest of the world reacting to his idiocy I can see there being more limited appetite for a conservative turn within the Church leadership.
- contrarian1234 1y agoOkay.. but outside of speeches and saying nice words, are the actual policies of Francis and Benedict different? Is the church run differently? Nice words are important but popes are not just a friendly powerless old men after all EDIT: Looking into the topic of homosexual clergy in the Catholic church. It seems things got worse in 2005 and there has been no change since then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_clergy_in_the_Catholic_Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_clergy_in_the_Catho...
- numbers_guy 1y agoThe real (non theological) reason why women are not allowed to be priests is because if you take a random mass of humans and you let them elect a leader, in 100% of the cases that leader will be a man. So don't blame Catholics for the faults of humanity.
- 1y ago
- lazzurs 1y agoA man has died, that is sad. Under his watch he did not move the church to fully acknowledge or deal with the historical and widespread abuses the organization he led was involved with. He had opportunity to be the leader to bring the organization around and he did not. Let's all hope his replacement will.
- weard_beard 1y agoHe didn’t make things worse and he, in his heart and in his words, kept the spirit of Jesus’ teachings and not the dogma of power and patriarchy. May the next pope feel emboldened to further this as the church itself becomes less of a lumbering monster.
- gandalfgreybeer 1y agoI don’t think anyone who would be ready to completely do a 180 with the Catholic Church will be the pope soon (or ever, given how the system works). He has, however, nudged that ship in the right direction and with what he has done and with his appointees. Let’s just hope it continues with whoever replaces him.
- veggieroll 1y agoNot only that, but he actively made it worse by protecting abusers. McCarrick, Rupnik, Zanchetta, and many more. It really makes me sick to see so many people speaking well of Pope Francis. He is an enabler and a vindictive hypocrite.
- daedrdev 1y agoHe is restricted by the system around him, with the internal Vatican politics and overall views of members of the Catholic Church being very relevant here. His replacement may be more conservative as a reaction to the decline of Church membership, or may not be, but I don't think he can be faulted personally for not attempting to set the wrongs of the church right, he clearly wanted to do so.
- mvieira38 1y agoNo he isn't. The pope is the absolute king of any matter Vatican related and can charge his priests however he wants
- southernplaces7 1y agoSo Pope Francis departs for a meeting with his boss perhaps? Jokes aside, he seemed like a genuinely decent human being and enough of a humanist to cast aside some of the drier absurdities surrounding the bureaucracy of Catholic Church administration, and ideology. Even as someone who's deep in the skeptically agnostic camp on any questions about supreme creators (after all even a firm atheist can't be absolutely sure there is no genuine God) I had more respect for the apparent practical concern for humanity of this pope, particularly compared to the more typical nature of historical pontiffs.
- BrandoElFollito 1y ago> after all even a firm atheist can't be absolutely sure there is no genuine God Why so? There is no reason for one to exist so not having one is the obvious case. We could of course assume anything, that we are av stylization, that the world is a large ice cream, that what we see is not the reality, whatever If we go for that, sure, we cannot be sure of anything. But we then must also believe that we may live in a large ice cream.
- southernplaces7 1y ago>There is no reason for one to exist so not having one is the obvious case. It's a usable supposition, sure, and I agree that being asked to prove a negative is silly, but you can't actually be sure that one doesn't exist. It's not the obvious case at all, it's not even all that obvious as a supposition. What's more, superficially at least, it makes more sense to believe in a supreme, essentially divine creator than it does to believe visibly enormous complexity deriving from a mostly unknown nothing. I'd say that this more than anything has been responsible for virtually all cultures in history believing in supreme, divine creators of one kind or another vs no historical cultures that I know of believing in the universe springing from random chance and hand-wavey nothingness behind it. We could also of course be living in a large ice cream, you can't be absolutely sure that's not the case either. Though, the idea of being the creations of a tremendously powerful and conscious being that created a universe hospitable to our use and for our potential given by all our evident cognitive and material tools seems to me a lot more plausible than being subject to an accidental existence in a gargantuan ice cream environment.
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- hsuduebc2 1y agoI'm curious how devout Catholics will perceive it when the leader of their Church dies on their holiest day, which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Will they going to see it as a symbol, a sign, or perhaps some kind of deeper message?
- probably_wrong 1y agoThe way I see it, expecting holy days to somehow be "safe" ignores the basis on which the Church was built. Martyrs were mauled by lions regardless of their work in spreading the word of God. Jesus himself died just like the common thieves next to him. The Catholic Church is built by people, and people sometimes die.
- 1718627440 1y agoIt wasn't regardless, it was because. They're not saints despite being martyrs, but because they are.
- 1718627440 1y agoThat's the nicest day to die. One can simply move from one celebration to the next.
- QuarterReptile 1y agoI view it the same way I view three American founders dying on July 4th, two of them on the 50th anniversary of the signing. His force of will could take him a ways beyond when his body might reasonably have been expected to fail; having reached that point, he was not prepared to take the effort any further.
- morwanger 1y ago[flagged]
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- adultSwim 1y agoI recommend one of his books, The Name of God is Mercy
- lr4444lr 1y agoI will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction. He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”[0] [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebdo-pope-francis-says-those-who-ridicule-others-religions-should-expect-a-punch-9980192.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebd...
- kashunstva 1y ago> You cannot insult the faith of others Why not? The concept of proportionality between an “offense” and a response that characterizes the liberal worldview was entirely missing here. If one chooses to take offense about some deeply held personal view, whatever it is, then fine; but let your response be proportional. The music of Beethoven is sacred to me, let’s say, but I’m not prepared to murder you if you mock it, or miss a note in performance. The pope’s threat of physical intervention himself seems at odds with the teachings of his own faith, too, as I understand them. Turn the other cheek, and all. But that would be for adherents to say for sure.
- mantas 1y agoI didn’t hear from him any call-to-arms to defend Christianity from those who keep making fun of it left and right. Be it other religious faiths or quasi-religious political movements. His actions seemed the opposite tbh.
- angra_mainyu 1y agoLiterally. As Christians are being massacred in Africa at the hands of muslims, as Christianity is besieged, all he did was simp for one group in specific and scold everyone else. Even scolded Greece for not wanting to share the same fate as some Western European countries.
- atrus 1y ago
- swat535 1y agoPope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both inspired and unsettled by him. His theology wasn’t always systematic, but it was deeply Ignatian, rooted in discernment, encounter, and movement toward the margins. Francis often chose gestures over definitions, and presence over proclamations. That doesn't always scale well in a Church that spans continents, cultures, and centuries. His legacy will be debated. But I think what made him so compelling, especially to someone who lives in the modern world but tries to be formed by ancient faith is that he forced us to confront the tension between tradition and aggiornamento not as an abstract debate, but as something lived. He reminded me that the Church isn’t a museum, nor is it a startup. It’s something stranger.. the best I can described it is a body that somehow survives by dying daily. - Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace. Amen.
- blame-troi 1y agoBeing both inspiring and unsettling to me says he did the job well. I will remember him as the smiling Pope.
- solfox 1y agoA teacher of mine often reminds me that in many cultures—like Japanese and Native American traditions—the role of having an enemy is viewed with a certain respect. Enemies help define us. They challenge us, sharpen us, and push us to grow. Western culture tends to abhor the idea of having enemies, but sometimes, having them simply means you’ve stood for something meaningful—something worth noticing. It seems Pope Francis had his share of critics—those who opposed his beliefs or feared his vision. And yet, he stood firm and made people think. In that sense, perhaps even his enemies affirmed the impact he was making.
- agumonkey 1y agoInteresting, it depends on your temper and philosophy. A respected enemy is worth having, but when it devolves into primitive antagonism, less so.
- crest 1y ago[flagged]
- michaelsbradley 1y agoRequiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace. Amen.
- AdventureMouse 1y agoMay he rest in peace
- racl101 1y agoHeld out all through out Easter. Lot of strength of character.
- sneak 1y agoStrength and power of will does not affect one’s lifespan or ability to resist disease. This is a myth. Disease is not a fistfight.
- ivape 1y ago[flagged]
- DamnInteresting 1y agoAfter a heavy snowfall, there is an increase in the rate of heart attacks owing to the exertion[1]. Easter is the busy season in Christian church, so it may be along the same lines. [1] https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/snow-shovel-heart-attack/ https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/snow-shove...
- freligions 1y ago[flagged]
- AllegedAlec 1y ago[flagged]
- aaron695 1y ago[dead]
- michaelsbradley 1y agoPope Francis was truly inimitable. A Pope to remember, and one of a kind. How to describe such a unique pontiff? Coming from "the end of the world," as he said, he truly represented a peculiar voice. He stands alone as the greatest international symbol of our age, an embodiment of its most salient characteristics. A man whose presence will remain indelible in our minds, and who really made his presence known in the Church. His fierce defense of his ideas, no matter what, marked the Church of our time forever. Catholics will never forget him. Traditional Catholics, in particular, will always vividly remember his legacy. May he rest in peace. source: https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2025/04/francis-pope-who-was-one-of-kind.html https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2025/04/francis-pope-who-w...
- layer8 1y agohttps://archive.is/uo8bN https://archive.is/uo8bN
- ajot 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- xchip 1y ago[flagged]
- upmind 1y agoCompletely agree. HN seems to pick and choose sometimes.
- dankobgd 1y ago[flagged]
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago[flagged]
- dankobgd 1y ago[flagged]
- RHSeeger 1y agoI was sad to hear about this this morning. Pope Francis has been a lot more about "love they neighbor" than many of his predecessors, and I think that's been beneficial to the Catholic Church and the world as a whole (insofar as the Catholic Church has a fairly wide influence). I've appreciated his (sometimes controversial) stance in a lot of cases that boils down to "you don't follow Catholic teachings, but we should still treat you with love".
- matteoraso 1y agoRIP. I think history will find Pope Francis to be a man who was a fairly average pope that constantly got taken out of context. Nothing he did was really far out of line with Catholic doctrine, but he was often portrayed as being more liberal than he really was.
- bonzini 1y ago> Nothing he did was really far out of line with Catholic doctrine Maybe he was merely good at pointing out the obvious, maybe it's what the church needed/needs?
- matteoraso 1y agoYeah, I can see that. Having a pope that's denounced by more conservative Catholics for truly believing in Catholic ethics shone a light on how far people were straying from the church. Really makes the pope look a bit like a Christ figure, when you think of it like that.
- smcin 1y agoThat's really much more of a comment about who controls media narratives these days and how to get your message out undiluted directly to the intended audience, and not anything specific to Pope Francis. Surprised noone here has mentioned yet that Pope Francis was only the second pope ever with a social-media strategy (Pope Benedict was the first, in 2012 [0][1], and didn't get as much traction as Pope Francis). "The Most Followed World Leaders on Social Media 2022" [2] ranked Pope Francis 3rd in 2022 with 53m followers, which is/was still low compared to singers, sports stars, celebrities and tech figures. It would obviously be crass and reductive to try to estimate the Pope's impact this way (and not, say, country visits, appointments, encyclicals, other official statements, reaction/criticism by other religous/political figures, administrative and legal actions, measures of popularity by specific groups, by factions, by country, by politics or religion), but as traditional media channels become less relevant, the Vatican will presumably have to move with the times, as in many other ways. Maybe the better question (as Dick Cheney would have put it) is which voices do/don't determine the media narrative on Pope Francis' papacy? As to your take (that he was wasn't that far out of line with Catholic doctrine, but often portrayed as more liberal and constantly taken out of context), that's the debate we're largely about to see happen. [0]: "Pope Joins Twitter: Benedict XVI's Screenname Will Be @Pontifex" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4897631 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4897631 [1]: https://x.com/Pontifex https://x.com/Pontifex [2]: https://medium.com/digital-diplomacy/the-most-followed-world-leaders-on-social-media-2022-193bb9d89d8d https://medium.com/digital-diplomacy/the-most-followed-world...
- robblbobbl 1y agoCondolences
- DrNosferatu 1y agoTo deeply reflect: Francis was the favorite pope of the Poor and of the Atheists.
- DrNosferatu 1y agoIn Portugal, the local Catholic University is one of the foremost strongholds of Economic Neoliberalism. There were vicious attacks to Pope Francis on the newspapers by the most orthodox professors there.
- foxandmouse 1y agoThough I’m neither Catholic nor especially religious, you don’t have to be devout to recognize that Pope Francis has been a powerful force for good. From his warm outreach to refugees and the homeless to his landmark environmental encyclical Laudato Si’, he has consistently championed the poor, fostered interfaith dialogue and empathy.
- edm0nd 1y agoVery interesting to see he has died after the tons of press the church was putting out about his health and he was "recovering" and "fine".
- chippiewill 1y agoWhen you're at that age it's not uncommon to be on the mend from illness as then deteriorate rapidly again.
- jounker 1y ago[flagged]
- dang 1y agoPlease don't do this here.
- damion6 1y agoI think he did well. Seemed thoughtful, can't expect him to totally buck the system. But he got it moving along again.
- dumbledoren 1y agoHe was a Liberation Theologist. People who follow the actual life example of Jesus of Nazareth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
- danans 1y agoHe was undoubtedly one of the most catholic [1] of the Catholic popes. RIP. 1. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/catholic https://www.dictionary.com/browse/catholic (definition 1)
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago[dead]