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Connecting a gaming PC to Apple Studio Display

165 points by flyingramen 4y ago

rock_artist 4y ago
This is nice. But... I'm waiting for the one that will "hack" the internal iDevice so it'll become a smart AppleTV :) and an A13 gaming device
goosedragons 4y ago
I don't think this is totally accurate. Apple lists several non-TB devices as compatible like the iPad Air 5th Gen. In the Ars Technica review of it the author mentions it worked just fine on the USB C ports of their Radeon RX 6800 just with the devices running at USB 2 speeds. Perhaps something else is at play with the Nvidia card/drivers?
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  > non-TB devices as compatible like the iPad Air 5th Gen. iPads are now TB devices.
  - ezfe 4y ago
    Not iPad Air, only iPad Pro
    - llampx 4y ago
      Latest iPad Air with M1?
      - searls 4y ago
        Yes. They kept it USB-C, presumable to leave some differentiation for the Pro models https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/
- cosmiccatnap 4y ago
- Eric_WVGG 4y ago
  It's accurate. The Studio Display connects the same way as the Apple XDR Display and the newer revisions of the LG 5k Ultrafine, and you can read dozens of pages of people trying different ways to get things working. The problems are… - Very, very few Nvidia or ATI cards have USB-C video out. They seemed to stop caring when VR failed to take off a couple years ago. - So you're left using DisplayPort-to-USBC — but have to find a high-bandwidth DP 1.4 cable. Many of these are incorrectly marked or advertised. - HDMI to DisplayPort/USB-C is a whole other game I won't cover here. - even with the DisplayPort working, you cannot control screen brightness or get audio without a USB signal - which can be solved with some very esoteric Wacom and Belkin VR devices - but which appear to not run a fast enough USB spec to be useful with the new Studio Display due to all its A13-driven weirdness - also some setups may require a USB signal to even turn on? I'm a little unclear on this mark. I've been through several of these hoops trying to get the earlier, TB-only LG 5k working with anything beyond a MacBook, so I've been watching these discussions with interest.
  - brigade 4y ago
    The Windows ecosystem mess is why Apple says capabilities may vary. - Yes, plenty of people including USB-C advocates like Benson Leung really wish NVIDIA didn't drop it for the 30-series. Most new laptops have an appropriate port, however, and probably at least a quarter of new motherboards. - A low bandwidth cable should work; if link training appropriately trains an HBR2 link then it should light up at 4k60 (or 5k60 if DSC is supported.) The more likely issue is that his original cable was one of the majority of USB-C -> DisplayPort cables that is unidirectional in the wrong direction. They only advertise USB-C -> DP, after all. - The internal webcam and speakers are connected to the USB 2.0 bus; you can verify this in System Profiler on a Mac when connected via Thunderbolt. Whatever is going wrong with the Wacom link is not because USB 2.0 doesn't have enough bandwidth.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      >The Windows ecosystem mess You mean the PC ecosystem. Microsoft did not design the specs for USB, TB and DisplayPort. Still, I'd much rather have this ecosystem "mess" that's more or less open and has healthy competition with a variety of solid options, rather than an ecosystem where stuff mostly just works but is 100% proprietary and locks you into a walled garden designed for rent seeking, planned obsolescence and e-waste generation (i.e. Apple that sells monitors with non user removable power cables attached to them).
- kevingadd 4y ago
  This is just a general problem: The term "USB C" doesn't mean anything other than the shape of the cable. There are various ways to transport video and/or audio over that connect and a given port on your PC may support a subset of them or none. Some thunderbolt ports can be used to connect an external GPU, for example, but even if it's connected your motherboard or bios might not support actually talking to that external GPU. On windows there is often a thunderbolt app on the system that you can open to see which TB features your built-in ports support... but if you're trying to plug into your GPU's USB-C port, now it's up to that specific hardware revision and your drivers to control what can happen there in cooperation with your PC and maybe your bios.
ents 4y ago
Not quite sure why anyone would hook up a $1600 60Hz monitor to a *Gaming PC*
- ur-whale 4y ago
  > Not quite sure why anyone An apple fanboy would, apparently.
- jamra 4y ago
  Yes. To pile on, if you're playing a First Person Shooter (FPS), you want at least double the Hz. It makes a difference. Additionally, there are other factors that gaming monitors offer such as brightening darker areas that are around a brighter area. But in general, this monitor, though it's impressive, does not have the features needed for gaming.
  - smabie 4y ago
    Not even just FPSs: >120hz for any kind of gaming is such a huge difference I don't think I could ever go back. The author's use case for this monitor doesn't make any sense at all.
    - zamalek 4y ago
      > >120hz for any kind of gaming I have reached the point where even the desktop feels sluggish at anything under 120hz.
      - wellthisisgreat 4y ago
        exactly my sentiment. 120hz is an absolute minimum for any desktop stuff as well.
      - dbttdft 4y ago
        Lots of LCDs have exponentially more input lag when you drop them from their higher refresh rates to lower. For instance (from data sources like TFT Central or Rtings) it's common to see a 120Hz monitor have 2ms input lag but then at 60Hz it will have 30ms. Saying 120Hz feels sluggish is also confounded since the mouse / keyboard have 8ms lag unless you use a gaming one or manually change the polling rate, and games and desktop implementations all have variable input lag up to 100ms or some crazy number. Whether your desktop has vsync is another variable. None of this of course changes the fact that input lag on a monitor should be zero aside from the pixel transition period.
thatguy0900 4y ago
It looks like it only has a 60hz refresh rate, interesting that someone would pay that premium for it as a gaming monitor. I would much rather have 120hz with a quarter of the resolution, personally. Guess it depends on what kind of games you play.
- kevingadd 4y ago
  My guess is they got it for other purposes and they just want to be able to play games on that big monitor that's sitting on their desk when they're not using it for work.
  - searls 4y ago
    Ding
- jagger27 4y ago
  Or you can get a 4K Eve Spectrum with a 144 Hz refresh rate for less than half the price. There's no need to sacrifice in resolution very much either.
  - ProfessorLayton 4y ago
    >There's no need to sacrifice in resolution very much either. I'll never understand why the display industry went went with 720/1080/4k/5k etc. (And the camera industry with another, but I digress) — but: 4k: ~8.3 megapixels 5k: ~14.7 megapixels That's a huge difference in resolution.
    - jagger27 4y ago
      True.
  - thebigman433 4y ago
    Is it actually worth buying from that company? Arent they the ones with incredibly delayed crowdfunding projects? It looks like a great monitor spec wise, but what kind of company are you buying from?
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
The author appears to have bought a monitor that's advertised as requiring a Thunderbolt 3 connection, and being compatible with a limited number of Apple products, and is complaining that it doesn't integrate nicely with his gaming PC (which has neither Thunderbolt 3 graphics connectivity nor appears on the compatibility list). I don't want to be the Apple apologist here, but ... really?
- Nullabillity 4y ago
  You'd typically expect that a monitor is a monitor is a monitor, and supports the same industry-standard connectors and protocols. Not doing so would be as absurd as trying to sell a phone without a USB port.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Yeah, but now they're internet famous being on the front page of HN! I'm actually surprised this is a mere blog instead of a YouTube video with a poster image of someone with a frustrated expression holding obviously incorrect cables. I'm all for repurposing things, so I don't blame them for attempting something most rational people would not bother. Been there done that, will attempt it again on something different.
  - searls 4y ago
    Hah, my other appearances on HN's front page have not resulted in a particularly long tail of fame. But I actually really appreciate this comment. I'm just trying to have a decent monitor for work that I can also play games with sometimes in the evenings and would rather not have two monitors on my desk.
- thebean11 4y ago
  It's DisplayPort over USB-C though. Shouldn't DisplayPort output with a passive USB-C adapter work fine? edit: Sounds like it does, but missing the additional features like audio.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
bluetidepro 4y ago
To be fair, it's a 60hz refresh rate monitor, which would be considered pretty meh for any modern gaming pc, especially when you look at the price tag. It would be pretty insane to buy this monitor for specifically gaming. Hundreds of far better options for significantly cheaper... None the less, it's Apple. None of this sounds surprising, sadly. In Apple's defense, the specs are pretty clearly laid out with the ports: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/ https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/
- searls 4y ago
  A lot of gamers who can perceive the difference between frame rates often refuse to believe it, but some people can't perceive the difference. Every time I try, I fail blind taste tests between 60hz and 120hz content. Meanwhile, I can easily perceive fine details in resolution & DPI and the subtlest blur or aliasing is probably as jarring to me as a low frame rate is to a gamer who prioritizes FPS counts
  - shrimp_emoji 4y ago
    That's crazy. 60 and 120 are night and day. Moving the cursor around at 60 feels like of like waving your hand under one of those LED lights that "invisibly" strobe to save energy.
    - JoshTriplett 4y ago
      > That's crazy. 60 and 120 are night and day. Moving the cursor around at 60 feels like of like waving your hand under one of those LED lights that "invisibly" strobe to save energy. Many people can't perceive that LED flicker either (or before that, fluorescent light flicker), while others can. I'm a huge fan of the RTINGS monitor reviews, which measure backlight flicker and identify which monitors do and don't have it, because I can notice that flicker and it gives me a headache.
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    I find that hard to believe - most likely the tests you've done were not really exercising 120hz. It's easily noticeable side-by-side even by someone who has no idea how monitors work. The easiest test: move the mouse cursor in a circle repeatedly. The trail at 60hz will complete the full circle, while it will be barely visible at 120/144hz.
enlyth 4y ago
Personally I wouldn't use a low refresh rate monitor for gaming, 60Hz looks way too blurry once you get used to higher ones.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  I wouldn’t use it for anything at this point.
  - enduser 4y ago
    That's absurd, unless you never watch films or shows. Electronic ink has terrible refresh rates, but is great for reading. Apple's displays can run at 24FPS, which is terrible for gaming, but perfect for editing 24FPS films and shows. I spend most of my workday either writing code or editing video, for which this less-expensive (relative to Pro Display XDR) model is out-of-this-world PERFECT. The sound is amazing and would be perfect if paired with a subwoofer. And despite terrible reviews, the built-in camera is just fine for video calls. I think a lot of people don't realize that people only look good on their own screen in video calls, because they are seeing their own video before it gets massively compressed to look just as bad as everyone else.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      Of course there are exceptions. I was talking about using it with a PC, and I stand by what I said for that. >60hz is way too good.
- MarioMan 4y ago
  While often related, refresh rate is not inherently tied to blurriness. High resolutions improve sharpness while ULMB, Lightboost, or even using a CRT can reduce ghosting to improve motion clarity. High refresh rates primarily help with perceived smoothness and latency.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Depends on the type of game, IMHO. For FPS or other fast paced competitive, yes refresh rate is important, but for things like open world single player RPGs I could see someone trading higher pixel density for refresh rate — those extra frames don’t help a lot in that circumstance, but the extra clarity and detail does.
TillE 4y ago
Plugging a Macbook into a normal high-end monitor requires a USB-C to DisplayPort cable. Doing the opposite requires...the exact same type of cable. The only weird part here is that it's 5K. You should be able to send audio over DisplayPort too, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't support that.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  Apple supports it. I'm doing it right now.
- hinkley 4y ago
  It's getting read hard to find good displays with a Thunderbolt out port on them. I was interested in Apple's new display for about as long as it took to find the picture of the back of the display and only see one lightning bolt. Nope, not interested. It's not a great experience having to plug multiple USB-C devices into my machine, especially in a WfH world. I'm going to end up damaging a laptop shuffling things around at some point.
- searls 4y ago
  The Studio Display carries all audio over USB Audio, FWIW. That's why I didn't just settle on high-bandwidth DP-to-USB-C cable—the speakers are actually quite good
anaisbetts 4y ago
I don't know why anyone would buy this goofy monitor, the LG 27GN950-B has a gorgeous 4K@144Hz HDR screen, works great for gaming and for reading text / coding, and is cheaper too. You could get this monitor, a pair of great AudioEngine A2 speakers and a webcam, and still have money left over
- turtlebits 4y ago
  4k on a Mac without non-integer scaling makes the UI too large (essentially running at 1080p).
- giantrobot 4y ago
  You'd need a monitor, speakers, and a webcam. Each with their own connection cables to the computer and everything but the webcam needing wall warts for power. There's a value is reducing desk clutter. It may not be the main reason to pick one monitor over another but it definitely has a value to some people.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  That monitor looks like the ugly run-of-the-mill gaming accessory, and the AudioEngine A2 are terrible speakers (I've owned them). Gaming gear has good specs in general, but aesthetically pleasing it is not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eddyg 4y ago
  A 5K display offers about 1,000 extra horizontal and 700 extra vertical pixels. When you're working with 4K images and video, that’s enough space for video editing tools on the side and timelines at the bottom, all while viewing "UltraHD" in its full, unscaled beauty. Until you've experienced what it's like to use a 5K (or even 6K, which will really spoil you), it's hard to appreciate why 4K is insufficient for many professionals.
  - arvinsim 4y ago
spoonjim 4y ago
If you're using a product in a manner inconsistent with the specs, you should only do a write-up if it works. Otherwise it's a lot of drivel about how an elephant can't fly.
- searls 4y ago
  This is a write-up about how it works. I literally wrote detailed instructions on two ways to make it work
hughrr 4y ago
User connects a premium low market share monitor not designed for gaming or for a PC really, despite some software supplied to the vendor, to a gaming PC and then complains about how difficult it is even though it eventually all works anyway. I don't get these articles or why you'd even buy one of these monitors for this case, even though I own one. I'd grab a random 144Hz 4k jobby instead. But I'm not a fan of punching myself in the balls over and over again for the hell of it. So far with this monitor I've read pages of whining from people who shouldn't have bought it or didn't buy it. Everyone who should have bought it and did buy it seems quite happy. I know I am!
- poyu 4y ago
  I didn't buy it, but personally I would get it just for the design.
  - hughrr 4y ago
    Well you can't see much of it from the front so I'm not sure what the point is of doing that. I bought it because it's the only 27" 5k panel you can actually get that has any realistic chance of vendor support anywhere in the UK and will charge my laptop.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Back when the Thunderbolt display was a couple years old, I got it in my head that I wanted a very beautiful monitor with at least a casual gamer compatible response time. When all was said and done, the monitor I found turned out to have similar specs to the Thunderbolt display. Color reproduction, pixel response rates. Basically the same panel and driver. It was $100 cheaper than the Thunderbolt display, at the outside. But made of plastic. So I said fuck it, $100 for an aluminum exterior isn't that crazy, and I can pick it up today instead of dealing with UPS. I just unplugged that monitor a couple months ago, and I keep trying to figure out if I can squeeze it back on my desk by rearranging some things.
  - hughrr 4y ago
    That’s some good longevity there. Hope this one lasts as long
donatj 4y ago
Reminds me of my 30" Dell Ultrasharp from ~2006 and the nightmare that thing is to drive if the situation isn't perfect. It only accepts dual-link DVI, even if the signal doesn't demand it. Driving it on a modern device with anything other than a powered active adapter (near $100 until recently apparently) just doesn't work. I went through a lot of adapters before I stumbled on a USB-C to Dual Link DVI adapter that actually does the job. I've tried and tried but hooking it to my Xbox has proven basically impossible.
- justinsaccount 4y ago
  Which model do you have? I have an old U3011 and you can get the native resolution if you use the display port. I've used a native display port cable as well as usb-c to display port and it all works fine. The hdmi ports only do 1080p and despite having a newer Radeon card with a DVI port I haven't been able to get that to work either (It must not be a dual link port?)
  - donatj 4y ago
    U3011 is significantly newer. HDMI on monitors was not a thing yet when I bought this. It was barely a thing on TVs. My TV at the time had DVI. This is a 3007WFPT - it has for input Dual-Link DVI, VGA, component, S-Video (should give you an idea of the age) and Composite. https://jdon.at/OwFuAV https://jdon.at/OwFuAV - image of the ports
- NickNameNick 4y ago
  I'm also curious which adapter cables have worked for you. I have an old 30 inch HP that I'm reluctant to replace, but dual link dvi isn't available on new graphics cards. And it'd be nice to hook up my mbp.
  - donatj 4y ago
    Below is the one I've been using for the last 2 years on my 2019 MBP. It does cut out a couple times a day but usually comes back on it's own. Every adapter I've used has done that for some reason, I don't know why. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKM856C/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKM856C/
zaphoyd 4y ago
This seems to suggest that while the Studio Display can be driven at 5K by a raw DisplayPort signal (which is great) the audio signal is routed over USB rather than the Displayport audio channel. That is unfortunate, I was hoping to at least be able to get video+audio.
- searls 4y ago
  This is correct and indeed unfortunate. Another thing I didn't mention in the post is that the driver for the XDR's USB bus is the same as the one for the Studio Display's ports+camera+audio. I imagine the only way they'd have support "spatial audio" is over USB so they just went that route from day one
- opencl 4y ago
  Really I think the worst part of driving this monitor with plain displayport is that there's no way to control the brightness, just like the LG 5K.
  - xattt 4y ago
    I have a LED Cinema Display (DisplayPort model) on Windows that surprisingly responds to Monitorian brightness control when I use current AMD drivers. I used to run a specific brightness control app for Apple displays, but have since ditched it. (1) https://github.com/emoacht/Monitorian https://github.com/emoacht/Monitorian
- varenc 4y ago
  That’s likely because the Studio Display has Apple’s proprietary “Spatial Audio” support.
infogulch 4y ago
Doesn't this "monitor" have enough processing power to run a complete MacOS? How is it different from the new iMac?
- savoytruffle 4y ago
  It runs some kind of A13, so similar to an iPhone 11. But it may not be a fully capable version of that chip. All retail 'Apple Silicon' Macs use a version of M1, which is more of an enhanced A14. It might be similar to the Apple Developer Transition Kit from two years ago, which was an A12 with extra GPU power. But until someone can get software actually running on it, will be hard to know.
- patmorgan23 4y ago
  Doesn't a raspberry pi have enough processing power to run Mac os? The ability to run something and have it be preformant are two completely different things.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    I’m pretty sure my little 12” Macbook with a dual-core m3 has less processing power than a Raspberry Pi 4. MacBook runs a little slow but it’s more than enough for word processing and web browsing.
    - argsnd 4y ago
      Your 12" m3 MacBook is likely at least twice as fast as a Raspberry Pi 4. The BCM2835 isn't a remotely powerful chip.
pilif 4y ago
Reminds me of back in 2004 when I wanted to hook a 30” Cinema Display (the only display I knew at that size and resolution back then) up to a PC. The same boy way to power a display of that resolution was over a dual link DVI connection which no PC consumer graphics card supported. I ended up having to purchase an outrageously expensive CAD optimized card but the screen estate was absolutely worth it. Plus I kept the display for a decade (and migrated to macs in 2006ish) only to replace it with a 27” retina iMac in 2015
- searls 4y ago
  Yeah, I almost referenced a similar Rube Goldberg machine I'd witnessed when I was writing this post, but I didn't want to get too mired in discussing how this is really just history repeating for the third time
gumby 4y ago
He purchased a TB monitor to plug into a device that doesn't support TB and says "it shouldn't be this hard". Commenters complain that it's 60 Hz but I don't know of an external interconnect that could drive that many pixels any faster. HN is weird sometimes. (I don't plan to buy this monitor either, but not for the reasons above. The LG 5K monitors are perfectly adequate for my needs. And like the post's author I was sorry to see target display go).
- na85 4y ago
  Not only that but: >I ordered one the minute that they hit the store in the hope I would receive what I thought I had purchased in 2014 One would think that he'd think twice before dropping that much money on a peripheral. Or at least do some research first. That satirical video where the guy wishes Apple made books so he'd know what to think wasn't far off the mark.
  - gumby 4y ago
    You get two weeks to return anything you buy from apple, no questions asked. I see why they do it: I bought an apple watch 0 figuring I'd get an idea of what the fuss was about and then buy v3 when they got it figured out. Instead, within the first week, I turned around on my way to work because I hadn't put my watch on. OTOH I got an M1 ipad pro when it launched and ended up returning it and getting an air which was just as good for my needs. As it happens the pro had some hardware bugs anyway but if I'd liked it I would have just asked them to swap it.
    - na85 4y ago
      I guess, but it just seems like the height of disgusting consumerism to spend several thousand dollars on the off chance a monitor has $feature, while planning on returning it and doubling the carbon footprint via shipping, when you could instead just, you know, search the internet.
- searls 4y ago
  Tough but fair.
MBCook 4y ago
Note: Apple released new firmware today with better BootCamp support. I’m not sure how much (or if) it would have fixed some of this.
withinrafael 4y ago
Bingxing Wang has a similar post about connecting a Pro Display XDR if interested in going down this road https://www.imbushuo.net/blog/archives/1006/ https://www.imbushuo.net/blog/archives/1006/
lsy 4y ago
Not the author, but in response to the many variations of "why would you do this?", the answer seems simple: If you do most of your computing on a Mac, this is one of the few available monitors that has highly compatible resolution and behavior, and if you have a PC for gaming as well, not everyone has the space or desire to maintain a completely separate monitor expressly for the purpose of PC gaming.
- searls 4y ago
  Yeah, indeed. Not rocket science. I use a Mac all day for work and productivity. I play games sometimes on a PC. And as it pertains to games, I personally care way more about resolution and image quality than I care about frame rates exceeding 60hz, which is why I am super grateful to have this display and a beefy GPU that can easily drive it at native resolution at 60hz
- Jimbonius 4y ago
- krater23 4y ago
  When you buy Apple, you have to have the space for a separate monitor. The suffering of the joung Apple user ;P
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Last I checked you can plug any monitor into a Mac, why would anyone need this one outside of further embellishing their Apple ecosystem of products? I don't buy an iPhone and get mad that it doesn't work with Android Auto.
  - thirdsun 4y ago
    You can't buy any 5k / 27" displays other than this Studio Display and the almost as expensive LG Ultrafine. It is a pretty unique display. Too expensive for my taste but I wish there were other 5k / 27" options. And no, 4k on a 27" display isn't even close, primarily because you'd give up a lot of screen real estate with macOS' recommended 2x scaling.
robotnikman 4y ago
I'm surprised his PC doesn't have a Thunderbolt connector. At least with all the laptops I've worked with recently they have at least 1 thunderbolt 3 connector, maybe its not as common on desktops.
- bitanarch 4y ago
  It's been a "premium" feature on gaming PC motherboards - i.e. you need to pay extra for it and it's pretty rare. Laptops have it because Intel's SOCs (e.g. Tiger Lake) have it built-in. But on a PC motherboard they'd need to add a Maple Ridge chip from Intel separately for the support.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    It's weird that it is premium. Intel should put it and 2.5gbps ethernet in some kind of mandatory part, either on the CPU or in the main chipset. A NUC has these features and a NUC is far from premium. It sucks that you need a weird add-in card that has a lot of flaws to get TB3 on Asus.
filmgirlcw 4y ago
I appreciated this post because I bought an Apple Studio Display to replace my LG 5K UltraFine that I should get in a few weeks (VESA option took longer to ship) and I was curious how much easier/harder it would be when using Windows. I'm primarily a Mac user but like the author, would like to use my external monitor with all of my devices if possible. I built an AMD gaming rig last year with a motherboard with a TB3 port built-in (one of the few AMD options to support this) but because of how it is configured (there is only one DP-in port on the motherboard and you need two of them over DP 1.2 to get a 5K signal), the LG 5K only outputs at 4K. All things considered, that was a fine trade-off. But it looks like the new display is DP 1.4 (at least in theory), meaning I can at the very least use the adaptor cable to just get 5K signal, even if speakers and webcam don't work. I wish all of this were easier and that Thunderbolt were easier, because it's such a great technology and it is frustrating we have so few options.
- saysjonathan 4y ago
  I actually did the exact same thing. Went with the ProArt B550 and didn’t consider that the LG 5k requires two video connections to the graphics card. This[0] eventually helped me realize my mistake. Currently running in 4k and it’s fine. At least camera, speakers, and hub work. 0: http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome3-gdm3.html http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome...
  - filmgirlcw 4y ago
    Good to know even the ProArt B550 has the same issue (I have the B550 Vision D-P) because I was half-considering swapping for the ProArt B550 (which would ruin the white aesthetic I'm going for, but fine), but if it doesn’t have two DP inputs, that’s a no go. It’s possible the DP 1.4 on the Studio Display would be enough to provide bandwidth on the TB4 connector, but I'll have to wait for others to try it first in the hackintosh forums or elsewhere.
    - saysjonathan 4y ago
      A quick look through Newegg shows 4 AMD AM4 motherboards (B550 and X570) with Thunderbolt (2 TB3, 2 TB4). None have two DP inputs. I didn't see any Intel (LG1200) with two inputs either. Would you use a Maple Ridge (TB4) card instead of Titan Ridge? I am impressed with Apple's ability to seamlessly handle all of these scenarios. Their product integration really does create a great experience within their ecosystem. I didn't expect my setup to work perfectly but I'm happy it gets most of the way there. I'm not pulling the trigger on Apple Studio Display but I'll be watching progress to see if it works. My use case is an outlier, I guess: I'm in the Apple ecosystem for all personal stuff but use a Dell Latitude for work (TB3, GPU chokes on 5k but technically works) and have a beefy Windows desktop for gaming and personal development work in WSL. I love the idea of just plugging a single cable into whatever system I'm using at that moment.
iJohnDoe 4y ago
Feels like the 90s with proprietary stuff from SGI.
bni 4y ago
This monitor being 60Hz is a joke, both for gaming and regular desktop use. Get a gaming monitor instead. I use a DisplayPort and USB KVM switch to comfortably switch between my gaming PC and Mac mini. Both PC gaming and Mac work in 144Hz, PC also with G-SYNC.
Spoom 4y ago
Apple: notes bug of Apple product being able to connect with non-Apple hardware, to fix in future versions
etempleton 4y ago
In the same way Apple has started to listen to users regarding their computer feature set they need to do the same for monitors, especially if they want to charge a premium. They make it hard to justify for anyone that uses a Mac + anything, which is honestly probably most people in the market for a $1,600 monitor. I have Mac, PC and gaming consoles at my desk. Do I buy a separate $1,600 monitor for my Mac and another monitor for everything else? Even if you take money out of the equation there are space considerations. So here is what I think Apple should add if they ever want to get serious: 1. An HDMI 2.1 port. 2. Basic Windows and Linux support 3. AppleTV built in. If you are going to add an a14 you might as well use it for something (I have this fantasy that they will unveil a 24 inch consumer targeted monitor introducing this feature). You then add the ability to use this as a nice small tv or computer monitor, but they will probably never do it. 4. For $1,600 it should really be 120hz or higher, but I imagine if they do introduce this the Pro Display XDR will get it first.
- deleted 4y ago
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- 9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
  1. Sure, it would be nice. But I don't think it's a big omission. 2. You can connect it, the author of the article updated it with the following information: "If you just want to use the display and don’t care about the speakers, microphone, or USB-C ports, then by far the simplest solution is to just plug a high-bandwidth DisplayPort cable with a USB-C connector or adapter from your GPU to the Studio Display’s Thunderbolt port. No Thunderbolt cable is actually needed, as the display will happily handshake DisplayPort 1.4 alt mode when connected with a high-bandwidth cable." So, number two is solveD? 3. I think this is a kind of cool idea, but totally unnecessary. It's a 'studio display', I like that it's focused on being one specific thing. 4.I'm 99% sure that 120hz is not possible. Another commenter posted this math: "Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.” Also, the only other widely available 27" 5k monitor is the LG ultrafine, which is just a few hundred dollars cheaper. With the studio display, you get much better product design, a newer panel, really good speakers, a really good webcam, and better connectivity. In CAD, the studio display is $1999, the ultrafine 5k is 1749$. If you don't think this is a 'serious' response to people who have been asking for a '5k imac without the imac' display, I don't know what to tell you.
fleddr 4y ago
Except for the 5K resolution, the Studio Display is garbage. It's a 5 year old LCD screen, where given price it's reasonable to expect better dimming. It's outdated in color accuracy as it scores well on DCI-P3, yet poorly on AdobeRGB (86%). For normal monitors these are good values, but they fail to impress for studio work. Further, factory calibration is shit, the white point is far too warm. Where Apple brags about "billions of colors", it's not a true 10 bit screen. You just can't trust a single thing they say. It's only 60hz. It's not a gaming screen but I'm just looking for any feature, any at all, to justify the price. It's intentionally consumer hostile. Not only will it not really work on Windows, it also doesn't have a single button, not even a power button. It's entirely software controlled, and that should make you anxious. There's no HDR support at all. Come on!? This is no longer a niche thing, it's a core need for videographers. The stands, both options, do less than the cheapest stand on any other monitor. All of this fits nicely into their line-up of non-pro screens. Like the bigger Pro Display XDR, according to Apple comparable to Sony's 35K$ reference monitor. Except that it isn't. Apple's display is not uniform and blooms all over the place. It's not a bad pro monitor, it's not a pro monitor at all. It literally cannot be used for color-critical work.
duluca 4y ago
The LG counter part of this monitor does pretty well for driving both a Mac and a PC. With a simple usb switch you can even share mouse, keyboard, webcam and a 4th device via one cable attached to laptop or pc. For 3090 though, you need https://evedevices.com/pages/spectrum https://evedevices.com/pages/spectrum. I’m waiting for mine to ship.
azinman2 4y ago
> I didn’t try the display’s terrible webcam. Isn’t the webcam one of the selling points? I thought it was 12MP and supported center stage?
tallytarik 4y ago
Had a similarly frustrating experience trying to connect a new gaming PC to a LG Ultrafine 4K. The all-USB C aspect of the monitor was fine when I only used it with my Macbook, but made it terribly painful to use with anything else. In the end I found a HDMI to USB C dongle which worked, also included a plain USB 2.0 cable for audio. Apparently I was ‘lucky’ to have the 4K rather than 5K, because, from my research at the time, nobody knew of any dongles or cables that would support the latter at full resolution (I think this is the same issue as in your article)
dusted 4y ago
What an excellent commercial for the Apple Studio Display: "It's so good people are bending over backwards to get to use it!"
buro9 4y ago
I recently purchased an Asus X570 ProArt motherboard, and it comes with a nice thing... Two Thunderbolt 4 ports and a Display port input that loops in from the discrete graphics card so that the signal can be shipped over Thunderbolt https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/ProArt/ProArt-X570-CREATOR-WIFI/ https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr... The result of this built in magic is that a single USB-C cable leaves my PC and goes to my desk. At this point it terminates into a CalDigit TS3+ and sprawls out to all the devices on the desk. I would be curious to see whether this motherboard could work directly with the studio display fully featured. Not that I expect it to be good, I expect Apple have added something so that the display only shines when connected to an Apple device.
rcarmo 4y ago
Good thing I bought an LG Ultra-Wide when my iMac died. Now I can plug in _anything_ to it and still get Retina-grade resolution…
tobyhinloopen 4y ago
I remember the times where Apple’s display had just a standard connector that worked on any device. Apple’s anti-consumerism keeps showing. Ah well, plenty of other displays available. There’s no real reason to buy a Apple Studio Display for 1600$ for a PC, as there are plenty of other great displays for that price. I got a 27” 4K 120Hz HDR1000 G-Sync display for that amount (Acer ConceptD CP7 / CP7271 or something). Sure, it’s not 5K, but other than that is is a great display and doesn’t look “gamery”. It uses local dimming for HDR and gets really bright. Looks really good!
rkuska 4y ago
> Unfortunately, vanishingly few desktop gaming PCs have any Thunderbolt support. And even if your machine happens to include a Thunderbolt port, it’s unlikely to be able to route frames from your discrete graphics card, which would defeat the purpose of connecting it to your Studio Display to play games. I solved this problem with https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 . By a problem I mean connecting my monitor (DELL) via "thunderbolt" (it's actually usb-c dp alt) to desktop. I use my monitor as USB hub and I wanted to connect it with just a single cable (usb-c dp alt transfers both video and usb utils).
Dave3of5 4y ago
Why is the HDMI port not an option here. It presumable can do sound and picture. Is the problem just wanting to use like the webcam and build in ports and such ?
- searls 4y ago
  The HDMI port on the RTX 3090 is 2.1 (48gbps) and should be able to push resolutions higher than 4K, but it's no better than the DisplayPort. Both HDMI & DisplayPort carry audio signals, but the Apple Studio Display only pipes audio over USB, so a single passive HDMI or DP cable will not transmit audio

165 points by flyingramen 4y ago

This is nice. But... I'm waiting for the one that will "hack" the internal iDevice so it'll become a smart AppleTV :) and an A13 gaming device

goosedragons 4y ago

I don't think this is totally accurate. Apple lists several non-TB devices as compatible like the iPad Air 5th Gen. In the Ars Technica review of it the author mentions it worked just fine on the USB C ports of their Radeon RX 6800 just with the devices running at USB 2 speeds. Perhaps something else is at play with the Nvidia card/drivers?

vineyardmike 4y ago
> non-TB devices as compatible like the iPad Air 5th Gen. iPads are now TB devices.
- ezfe 4y ago
  Not iPad Air, only iPad Pro
  - llampx 4y ago
    Latest iPad Air with M1?
    - searls 4y ago
      Yes. They kept it USB-C, presumable to leave some differentiation for the Pro models https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/
cosmiccatnap 4y ago
Eric_WVGG 4y ago
It's accurate. The Studio Display connects the same way as the Apple XDR Display and the newer revisions of the LG 5k Ultrafine, and you can read dozens of pages of people trying different ways to get things working. The problems are… - Very, very few Nvidia or ATI cards have USB-C video out. They seemed to stop caring when VR failed to take off a couple years ago. - So you're left using DisplayPort-to-USBC — but have to find a high-bandwidth DP 1.4 cable. Many of these are incorrectly marked or advertised. - HDMI to DisplayPort/USB-C is a whole other game I won't cover here. - even with the DisplayPort working, you cannot control screen brightness or get audio without a USB signal - which can be solved with some very esoteric Wacom and Belkin VR devices - but which appear to not run a fast enough USB spec to be useful with the new Studio Display due to all its A13-driven weirdness - also some setups may require a USB signal to even turn on? I'm a little unclear on this mark. I've been through several of these hoops trying to get the earlier, TB-only LG 5k working with anything beyond a MacBook, so I've been watching these discussions with interest.
- brigade 4y ago
  The Windows ecosystem mess is why Apple says capabilities may vary. - Yes, plenty of people including USB-C advocates like Benson Leung really wish NVIDIA didn't drop it for the 30-series. Most new laptops have an appropriate port, however, and probably at least a quarter of new motherboards. - A low bandwidth cable should work; if link training appropriately trains an HBR2 link then it should light up at 4k60 (or 5k60 if DSC is supported.) The more likely issue is that his original cable was one of the majority of USB-C -> DisplayPort cables that is unidirectional in the wrong direction. They only advertise USB-C -> DP, after all. - The internal webcam and speakers are connected to the USB 2.0 bus; you can verify this in System Profiler on a Mac when connected via Thunderbolt. Whatever is going wrong with the Wacom link is not because USB 2.0 doesn't have enough bandwidth.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >The Windows ecosystem mess You mean the PC ecosystem. Microsoft did not design the specs for USB, TB and DisplayPort. Still, I'd much rather have this ecosystem "mess" that's more or less open and has healthy competition with a variety of solid options, rather than an ecosystem where stuff mostly just works but is 100% proprietary and locks you into a walled garden designed for rent seeking, planned obsolescence and e-waste generation (i.e. Apple that sells monitors with non user removable power cables attached to them).
kevingadd 4y ago
This is just a general problem: The term "USB C" doesn't mean anything other than the shape of the cable. There are various ways to transport video and/or audio over that connect and a given port on your PC may support a subset of them or none. Some thunderbolt ports can be used to connect an external GPU, for example, but even if it's connected your motherboard or bios might not support actually talking to that external GPU. On windows there is often a thunderbolt app on the system that you can open to see which TB features your built-in ports support... but if you're trying to plug into your GPU's USB-C port, now it's up to that specific hardware revision and your drivers to control what can happen there in cooperation with your PC and maybe your bios.

ents 4y ago

Not quite sure why anyone would hook up a $1600 60Hz monitor to a *Gaming PC*

ur-whale 4y ago
> Not quite sure why anyone An apple fanboy would, apparently.
jamra 4y ago
Yes. To pile on, if you're playing a First Person Shooter (FPS), you want at least double the Hz. It makes a difference. Additionally, there are other factors that gaming monitors offer such as brightening darker areas that are around a brighter area. But in general, this monitor, though it's impressive, does not have the features needed for gaming.
- smabie 4y ago
  Not even just FPSs: >120hz for any kind of gaming is such a huge difference I don't think I could ever go back. The author's use case for this monitor doesn't make any sense at all.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    > >120hz for any kind of gaming I have reached the point where even the desktop feels sluggish at anything under 120hz.
    - wellthisisgreat 4y ago
      exactly my sentiment. 120hz is an absolute minimum for any desktop stuff as well.
    - dbttdft 4y ago
      Lots of LCDs have exponentially more input lag when you drop them from their higher refresh rates to lower. For instance (from data sources like TFT Central or Rtings) it's common to see a 120Hz monitor have 2ms input lag but then at 60Hz it will have 30ms. Saying 120Hz feels sluggish is also confounded since the mouse / keyboard have 8ms lag unless you use a gaming one or manually change the polling rate, and games and desktop implementations all have variable input lag up to 100ms or some crazy number. Whether your desktop has vsync is another variable. None of this of course changes the fact that input lag on a monitor should be zero aside from the pixel transition period.

thatguy0900 4y ago

It looks like it only has a 60hz refresh rate, interesting that someone would pay that premium for it as a gaming monitor. I would much rather have 120hz with a quarter of the resolution, personally. Guess it depends on what kind of games you play.

kevingadd 4y ago
My guess is they got it for other purposes and they just want to be able to play games on that big monitor that's sitting on their desk when they're not using it for work.
- searls 4y ago
  Ding
jagger27 4y ago
Or you can get a 4K Eve Spectrum with a 144 Hz refresh rate for less than half the price. There's no need to sacrifice in resolution very much either.
- ProfessorLayton 4y ago
  >There's no need to sacrifice in resolution very much either. I'll never understand why the display industry went went with 720/1080/4k/5k etc. (And the camera industry with another, but I digress) — but: 4k: ~8.3 megapixels 5k: ~14.7 megapixels That's a huge difference in resolution.
  - jagger27 4y ago
    True.
- thebigman433 4y ago
  Is it actually worth buying from that company? Arent they the ones with incredibly delayed crowdfunding projects? It looks like a great monitor spec wise, but what kind of company are you buying from?

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

The author appears to have bought a monitor that's advertised as requiring a Thunderbolt 3 connection, and being compatible with a limited number of Apple products, and is complaining that it doesn't integrate nicely with his gaming PC (which has neither Thunderbolt 3 graphics connectivity nor appears on the compatibility list). I don't want to be the Apple apologist here, but ... really?

Nullabillity 4y ago
You'd typically expect that a monitor is a monitor is a monitor, and supports the same industry-standard connectors and protocols. Not doing so would be as absurd as trying to sell a phone without a USB port.
dylan604 4y ago
Yeah, but now they're internet famous being on the front page of HN! I'm actually surprised this is a mere blog instead of a YouTube video with a poster image of someone with a frustrated expression holding obviously incorrect cables. I'm all for repurposing things, so I don't blame them for attempting something most rational people would not bother. Been there done that, will attempt it again on something different.
- searls 4y ago
  Hah, my other appearances on HN's front page have not resulted in a particularly long tail of fame. But I actually really appreciate this comment. I'm just trying to have a decent monitor for work that I can also play games with sometimes in the evenings and would rather not have two monitors on my desk.
thebean11 4y ago
It's DisplayPort over USB-C though. Shouldn't DisplayPort output with a passive USB-C adapter work fine? edit: Sounds like it does, but missing the additional features like audio.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

bluetidepro 4y ago

To be fair, it's a 60hz refresh rate monitor, which would be considered pretty meh for any modern gaming pc, especially when you look at the price tag. It would be pretty insane to buy this monitor for specifically gaming. Hundreds of far better options for significantly cheaper... None the less, it's Apple. None of this sounds surprising, sadly. In Apple's defense, the specs are pretty clearly laid out with the ports: https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/ https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/

searls 4y ago
A lot of gamers who can perceive the difference between frame rates often refuse to believe it, but some people can't perceive the difference. Every time I try, I fail blind taste tests between 60hz and 120hz content. Meanwhile, I can easily perceive fine details in resolution & DPI and the subtlest blur or aliasing is probably as jarring to me as a low frame rate is to a gamer who prioritizes FPS counts
- shrimp_emoji 4y ago
  That's crazy. 60 and 120 are night and day. Moving the cursor around at 60 feels like of like waving your hand under one of those LED lights that "invisibly" strobe to save energy.
  - JoshTriplett 4y ago
    > That's crazy. 60 and 120 are night and day. Moving the cursor around at 60 feels like of like waving your hand under one of those LED lights that "invisibly" strobe to save energy. Many people can't perceive that LED flicker either (or before that, fluorescent light flicker), while others can. I'm a huge fan of the RTINGS monitor reviews, which measure backlight flicker and identify which monitors do and don't have it, because I can notice that flicker and it gives me a headache.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  I find that hard to believe - most likely the tests you've done were not really exercising 120hz. It's easily noticeable side-by-side even by someone who has no idea how monitors work. The easiest test: move the mouse cursor in a circle repeatedly. The trail at 60hz will complete the full circle, while it will be barely visible at 120/144hz.

enlyth 4y ago

Personally I wouldn't use a low refresh rate monitor for gaming, 60Hz looks way too blurry once you get used to higher ones.

aaomidi 4y ago
I wouldn’t use it for anything at this point.
- enduser 4y ago
  That's absurd, unless you never watch films or shows. Electronic ink has terrible refresh rates, but is great for reading. Apple's displays can run at 24FPS, which is terrible for gaming, but perfect for editing 24FPS films and shows. I spend most of my workday either writing code or editing video, for which this less-expensive (relative to Pro Display XDR) model is out-of-this-world PERFECT. The sound is amazing and would be perfect if paired with a subwoofer. And despite terrible reviews, the built-in camera is just fine for video calls. I think a lot of people don't realize that people only look good on their own screen in video calls, because they are seeing their own video before it gets massively compressed to look just as bad as everyone else.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Of course there are exceptions. I was talking about using it with a PC, and I stand by what I said for that. >60hz is way too good.
MarioMan 4y ago
While often related, refresh rate is not inherently tied to blurriness. High resolutions improve sharpness while ULMB, Lightboost, or even using a CRT can reduce ghosting to improve motion clarity. High refresh rates primarily help with perceived smoothness and latency.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
Depends on the type of game, IMHO. For FPS or other fast paced competitive, yes refresh rate is important, but for things like open world single player RPGs I could see someone trading higher pixel density for refresh rate — those extra frames don’t help a lot in that circumstance, but the extra clarity and detail does.

TillE 4y ago

Plugging a Macbook into a normal high-end monitor requires a USB-C to DisplayPort cable. Doing the opposite requires...the exact same type of cable. The only weird part here is that it's 5K. You should be able to send audio over DisplayPort too, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't support that.

Forgeties79 4y ago
Apple supports it. I'm doing it right now.
hinkley 4y ago
It's getting read hard to find good displays with a Thunderbolt out port on them. I was interested in Apple's new display for about as long as it took to find the picture of the back of the display and only see one lightning bolt. Nope, not interested. It's not a great experience having to plug multiple USB-C devices into my machine, especially in a WfH world. I'm going to end up damaging a laptop shuffling things around at some point.
searls 4y ago
The Studio Display carries all audio over USB Audio, FWIW. That's why I didn't just settle on high-bandwidth DP-to-USB-C cable—the speakers are actually quite good

anaisbetts 4y ago

I don't know why anyone would buy this goofy monitor, the LG 27GN950-B has a gorgeous 4K@144Hz HDR screen, works great for gaming and for reading text / coding, and is cheaper too. You could get this monitor, a pair of great AudioEngine A2 speakers and a webcam, and still have money left over

turtlebits 4y ago
4k on a Mac without non-integer scaling makes the UI too large (essentially running at 1080p).
giantrobot 4y ago
You'd need a monitor, speakers, and a webcam. Each with their own connection cables to the computer and everything but the webcam needing wall warts for power. There's a value is reducing desk clutter. It may not be the main reason to pick one monitor over another but it definitely has a value to some people.
MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
That monitor looks like the ugly run-of-the-mill gaming accessory, and the AudioEngine A2 are terrible speakers (I've owned them). Gaming gear has good specs in general, but aesthetically pleasing it is not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eddyg 4y ago
A 5K display offers about 1,000 extra horizontal and 700 extra vertical pixels. When you're working with 4K images and video, that’s enough space for video editing tools on the side and timelines at the bottom, all while viewing "UltraHD" in its full, unscaled beauty. Until you've experienced what it's like to use a 5K (or even 6K, which will really spoil you), it's hard to appreciate why 4K is insufficient for many professionals.
- arvinsim 4y ago

spoonjim 4y ago

If you're using a product in a manner inconsistent with the specs, you should only do a write-up if it works. Otherwise it's a lot of drivel about how an elephant can't fly.

searls 4y ago
This is a write-up about how it works. I literally wrote detailed instructions on two ways to make it work

hughrr 4y ago

User connects a premium low market share monitor not designed for gaming or for a PC really, despite some software supplied to the vendor, to a gaming PC and then complains about how difficult it is even though it eventually all works anyway. I don't get these articles or why you'd even buy one of these monitors for this case, even though I own one. I'd grab a random 144Hz 4k jobby instead. But I'm not a fan of punching myself in the balls over and over again for the hell of it. So far with this monitor I've read pages of whining from people who shouldn't have bought it or didn't buy it. Everyone who should have bought it and did buy it seems quite happy. I know I am!

poyu 4y ago
I didn't buy it, but personally I would get it just for the design.
- hughrr 4y ago
  Well you can't see much of it from the front so I'm not sure what the point is of doing that. I bought it because it's the only 27" 5k panel you can actually get that has any realistic chance of vendor support anywhere in the UK and will charge my laptop.
hinkley 4y ago
Back when the Thunderbolt display was a couple years old, I got it in my head that I wanted a very beautiful monitor with at least a casual gamer compatible response time. When all was said and done, the monitor I found turned out to have similar specs to the Thunderbolt display. Color reproduction, pixel response rates. Basically the same panel and driver. It was $100 cheaper than the Thunderbolt display, at the outside. But made of plastic. So I said fuck it, $100 for an aluminum exterior isn't that crazy, and I can pick it up today instead of dealing with UPS. I just unplugged that monitor a couple months ago, and I keep trying to figure out if I can squeeze it back on my desk by rearranging some things.
- hughrr 4y ago
  That’s some good longevity there. Hope this one lasts as long

donatj 4y ago

Reminds me of my 30" Dell Ultrasharp from ~2006 and the nightmare that thing is to drive if the situation isn't perfect. It only accepts dual-link DVI, even if the signal doesn't demand it. Driving it on a modern device with anything other than a powered active adapter (near $100 until recently apparently) just doesn't work. I went through a lot of adapters before I stumbled on a USB-C to Dual Link DVI adapter that actually does the job. I've tried and tried but hooking it to my Xbox has proven basically impossible.

justinsaccount 4y ago
Which model do you have? I have an old U3011 and you can get the native resolution if you use the display port. I've used a native display port cable as well as usb-c to display port and it all works fine. The hdmi ports only do 1080p and despite having a newer Radeon card with a DVI port I haven't been able to get that to work either (It must not be a dual link port?)
- donatj 4y ago
  U3011 is significantly newer. HDMI on monitors was not a thing yet when I bought this. It was barely a thing on TVs. My TV at the time had DVI. This is a 3007WFPT - it has for input Dual-Link DVI, VGA, component, S-Video (should give you an idea of the age) and Composite. https://jdon.at/OwFuAV https://jdon.at/OwFuAV - image of the ports
NickNameNick 4y ago
I'm also curious which adapter cables have worked for you. I have an old 30 inch HP that I'm reluctant to replace, but dual link dvi isn't available on new graphics cards. And it'd be nice to hook up my mbp.
- donatj 4y ago
  Below is the one I've been using for the last 2 years on my 2019 MBP. It does cut out a couple times a day but usually comes back on it's own. Every adapter I've used has done that for some reason, I don't know why. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKM856C/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKM856C/

zaphoyd 4y ago

This seems to suggest that while the Studio Display can be driven at 5K by a raw DisplayPort signal (which is great) the audio signal is routed over USB rather than the Displayport audio channel. That is unfortunate, I was hoping to at least be able to get video+audio.

searls 4y ago
This is correct and indeed unfortunate. Another thing I didn't mention in the post is that the driver for the XDR's USB bus is the same as the one for the Studio Display's ports+camera+audio. I imagine the only way they'd have support "spatial audio" is over USB so they just went that route from day one
opencl 4y ago
Really I think the worst part of driving this monitor with plain displayport is that there's no way to control the brightness, just like the LG 5K.
- xattt 4y ago
  I have a LED Cinema Display (DisplayPort model) on Windows that surprisingly responds to Monitorian brightness control when I use current AMD drivers. I used to run a specific brightness control app for Apple displays, but have since ditched it. (1) https://github.com/emoacht/Monitorian https://github.com/emoacht/Monitorian
varenc 4y ago
That’s likely because the Studio Display has Apple’s proprietary “Spatial Audio” support.

infogulch 4y ago

Doesn't this "monitor" have enough processing power to run a complete MacOS? How is it different from the new iMac?

savoytruffle 4y ago
It runs some kind of A13, so similar to an iPhone 11. But it may not be a fully capable version of that chip. All retail 'Apple Silicon' Macs use a version of M1, which is more of an enhanced A14. It might be similar to the Apple Developer Transition Kit from two years ago, which was an A12 with extra GPU power. But until someone can get software actually running on it, will be hard to know.
patmorgan23 4y ago
Doesn't a raspberry pi have enough processing power to run Mac os? The ability to run something and have it be preformant are two completely different things.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  I’m pretty sure my little 12” Macbook with a dual-core m3 has less processing power than a Raspberry Pi 4. MacBook runs a little slow but it’s more than enough for word processing and web browsing.
  - argsnd 4y ago
    Your 12" m3 MacBook is likely at least twice as fast as a Raspberry Pi 4. The BCM2835 isn't a remotely powerful chip.

pilif 4y ago

Reminds me of back in 2004 when I wanted to hook a 30” Cinema Display (the only display I knew at that size and resolution back then) up to a PC. The same boy way to power a display of that resolution was over a dual link DVI connection which no PC consumer graphics card supported. I ended up having to purchase an outrageously expensive CAD optimized card but the screen estate was absolutely worth it. Plus I kept the display for a decade (and migrated to macs in 2006ish) only to replace it with a 27” retina iMac in 2015

searls 4y ago
Yeah, I almost referenced a similar Rube Goldberg machine I'd witnessed when I was writing this post, but I didn't want to get too mired in discussing how this is really just history repeating for the third time

gumby 4y ago

He purchased a TB monitor to plug into a device that doesn't support TB and says "it shouldn't be this hard". Commenters complain that it's 60 Hz but I don't know of an external interconnect that could drive that many pixels any faster. HN is weird sometimes. (I don't plan to buy this monitor either, but not for the reasons above. The LG 5K monitors are perfectly adequate for my needs. And like the post's author I was sorry to see target display go).

na85 4y ago
Not only that but: >I ordered one the minute that they hit the store in the hope I would receive what I thought I had purchased in 2014 One would think that he'd think twice before dropping that much money on a peripheral. Or at least do some research first. That satirical video where the guy wishes Apple made books so he'd know what to think wasn't far off the mark.
- gumby 4y ago
  You get two weeks to return anything you buy from apple, no questions asked. I see why they do it: I bought an apple watch 0 figuring I'd get an idea of what the fuss was about and then buy v3 when they got it figured out. Instead, within the first week, I turned around on my way to work because I hadn't put my watch on. OTOH I got an M1 ipad pro when it launched and ended up returning it and getting an air which was just as good for my needs. As it happens the pro had some hardware bugs anyway but if I'd liked it I would have just asked them to swap it.
  - na85 4y ago
    I guess, but it just seems like the height of disgusting consumerism to spend several thousand dollars on the off chance a monitor has $feature, while planning on returning it and doubling the carbon footprint via shipping, when you could instead just, you know, search the internet.
searls 4y ago
Tough but fair.

MBCook 4y ago

Note: Apple released new firmware today with better BootCamp support. I’m not sure how much (or if) it would have fixed some of this.

withinrafael 4y ago

Bingxing Wang has a similar post about connecting a Pro Display XDR if interested in going down this road https://www.imbushuo.net/blog/archives/1006/ https://www.imbushuo.net/blog/archives/1006/

lsy 4y ago

Not the author, but in response to the many variations of "why would you do this?", the answer seems simple: If you do most of your computing on a Mac, this is one of the few available monitors that has highly compatible resolution and behavior, and if you have a PC for gaming as well, not everyone has the space or desire to maintain a completely separate monitor expressly for the purpose of PC gaming.

searls 4y ago
Yeah, indeed. Not rocket science. I use a Mac all day for work and productivity. I play games sometimes on a PC. And as it pertains to games, I personally care way more about resolution and image quality than I care about frame rates exceeding 60hz, which is why I am super grateful to have this display and a beefy GPU that can easily drive it at native resolution at 60hz
Jimbonius 4y ago
krater23 4y ago
When you buy Apple, you have to have the space for a separate monitor. The suffering of the joung Apple user ;P
micromacrofoot 4y ago
Last I checked you can plug any monitor into a Mac, why would anyone need this one outside of further embellishing their Apple ecosystem of products? I don't buy an iPhone and get mad that it doesn't work with Android Auto.
- thirdsun 4y ago
  You can't buy any 5k / 27" displays other than this Studio Display and the almost as expensive LG Ultrafine. It is a pretty unique display. Too expensive for my taste but I wish there were other 5k / 27" options. And no, 4k on a 27" display isn't even close, primarily because you'd give up a lot of screen real estate with macOS' recommended 2x scaling.

robotnikman 4y ago

I'm surprised his PC doesn't have a Thunderbolt connector. At least with all the laptops I've worked with recently they have at least 1 thunderbolt 3 connector, maybe its not as common on desktops.

bitanarch 4y ago
It's been a "premium" feature on gaming PC motherboards - i.e. you need to pay extra for it and it's pretty rare. Laptops have it because Intel's SOCs (e.g. Tiger Lake) have it built-in. But on a PC motherboard they'd need to add a Maple Ridge chip from Intel separately for the support.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  It's weird that it is premium. Intel should put it and 2.5gbps ethernet in some kind of mandatory part, either on the CPU or in the main chipset. A NUC has these features and a NUC is far from premium. It sucks that you need a weird add-in card that has a lot of flaws to get TB3 on Asus.

filmgirlcw 4y ago

I appreciated this post because I bought an Apple Studio Display to replace my LG 5K UltraFine that I should get in a few weeks (VESA option took longer to ship) and I was curious how much easier/harder it would be when using Windows. I'm primarily a Mac user but like the author, would like to use my external monitor with all of my devices if possible. I built an AMD gaming rig last year with a motherboard with a TB3 port built-in (one of the few AMD options to support this) but because of how it is configured (there is only one DP-in port on the motherboard and you need two of them over DP 1.2 to get a 5K signal), the LG 5K only outputs at 4K. All things considered, that was a fine trade-off. But it looks like the new display is DP 1.4 (at least in theory), meaning I can at the very least use the adaptor cable to just get 5K signal, even if speakers and webcam don't work. I wish all of this were easier and that Thunderbolt were easier, because it's such a great technology and it is frustrating we have so few options.

saysjonathan 4y ago
I actually did the exact same thing. Went with the ProArt B550 and didn’t consider that the LG 5k requires two video connections to the graphics card. This[0] eventually helped me realize my mistake. Currently running in 4k and it’s fine. At least camera, speakers, and hub work. 0: http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome3-gdm3.html http://johnwilger.com/2019/01/27/lg-utlrafine-on-linux-gnome...
- filmgirlcw 4y ago
  Good to know even the ProArt B550 has the same issue (I have the B550 Vision D-P) because I was half-considering swapping for the ProArt B550 (which would ruin the white aesthetic I'm going for, but fine), but if it doesn’t have two DP inputs, that’s a no go. It’s possible the DP 1.4 on the Studio Display would be enough to provide bandwidth on the TB4 connector, but I'll have to wait for others to try it first in the hackintosh forums or elsewhere.
  - saysjonathan 4y ago
    A quick look through Newegg shows 4 AMD AM4 motherboards (B550 and X570) with Thunderbolt (2 TB3, 2 TB4). None have two DP inputs. I didn't see any Intel (LG1200) with two inputs either. Would you use a Maple Ridge (TB4) card instead of Titan Ridge? I am impressed with Apple's ability to seamlessly handle all of these scenarios. Their product integration really does create a great experience within their ecosystem. I didn't expect my setup to work perfectly but I'm happy it gets most of the way there. I'm not pulling the trigger on Apple Studio Display but I'll be watching progress to see if it works. My use case is an outlier, I guess: I'm in the Apple ecosystem for all personal stuff but use a Dell Latitude for work (TB3, GPU chokes on 5k but technically works) and have a beefy Windows desktop for gaming and personal development work in WSL. I love the idea of just plugging a single cable into whatever system I'm using at that moment.

iJohnDoe 4y ago

Feels like the 90s with proprietary stuff from SGI.

bni 4y ago

This monitor being 60Hz is a joke, both for gaming and regular desktop use. Get a gaming monitor instead. I use a DisplayPort and USB KVM switch to comfortably switch between my gaming PC and Mac mini. Both PC gaming and Mac work in 144Hz, PC also with G-SYNC.

Spoom 4y ago

Apple: notes bug of Apple product being able to connect with non-Apple hardware, to fix in future versions

etempleton 4y ago

In the same way Apple has started to listen to users regarding their computer feature set they need to do the same for monitors, especially if they want to charge a premium. They make it hard to justify for anyone that uses a Mac + anything, which is honestly probably most people in the market for a $1,600 monitor. I have Mac, PC and gaming consoles at my desk. Do I buy a separate $1,600 monitor for my Mac and another monitor for everything else? Even if you take money out of the equation there are space considerations. So here is what I think Apple should add if they ever want to get serious: 1. An HDMI 2.1 port. 2. Basic Windows and Linux support 3. AppleTV built in. If you are going to add an a14 you might as well use it for something (I have this fantasy that they will unveil a 24 inch consumer targeted monitor introducing this feature). You then add the ability to use this as a nice small tv or computer monitor, but they will probably never do it. 4. For $1,600 it should really be 120hz or higher, but I imagine if they do introduce this the Pro Display XDR will get it first.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
1. Sure, it would be nice. But I don't think it's a big omission. 2. You can connect it, the author of the article updated it with the following information: "If you just want to use the display and don’t care about the speakers, microphone, or USB-C ports, then by far the simplest solution is to just plug a high-bandwidth DisplayPort cable with a USB-C connector or adapter from your GPU to the Studio Display’s Thunderbolt port. No Thunderbolt cable is actually needed, as the display will happily handshake DisplayPort 1.4 alt mode when connected with a high-bandwidth cable." So, number two is solveD? 3. I think this is a kind of cool idea, but totally unnecessary. It's a 'studio display', I like that it's focused on being one specific thing. 4.I'm 99% sure that 120hz is not possible. Another commenter posted this math: "Does it use Display Stream Compression or something? Raw 5120x1440 x 240 fps x 8 bits x 3 colors = 39.55 Gbits/sec. DP1.4 has a maximum data rate of 25.92 Gbits/sec. DP2.0 on the other hand does 77.37 Gbits/sec.” Also, the only other widely available 27" 5k monitor is the LG ultrafine, which is just a few hundred dollars cheaper. With the studio display, you get much better product design, a newer panel, really good speakers, a really good webcam, and better connectivity. In CAD, the studio display is $1999, the ultrafine 5k is 1749$. If you don't think this is a 'serious' response to people who have been asking for a '5k imac without the imac' display, I don't know what to tell you.

fleddr 4y ago

Except for the 5K resolution, the Studio Display is garbage. It's a 5 year old LCD screen, where given price it's reasonable to expect better dimming. It's outdated in color accuracy as it scores well on DCI-P3, yet poorly on AdobeRGB (86%). For normal monitors these are good values, but they fail to impress for studio work. Further, factory calibration is shit, the white point is far too warm. Where Apple brags about "billions of colors", it's not a true 10 bit screen. You just can't trust a single thing they say. It's only 60hz. It's not a gaming screen but I'm just looking for any feature, any at all, to justify the price. It's intentionally consumer hostile. Not only will it not really work on Windows, it also doesn't have a single button, not even a power button. It's entirely software controlled, and that should make you anxious. There's no HDR support at all. Come on!? This is no longer a niche thing, it's a core need for videographers. The stands, both options, do less than the cheapest stand on any other monitor. All of this fits nicely into their line-up of non-pro screens. Like the bigger Pro Display XDR, according to Apple comparable to Sony's 35K$ reference monitor. Except that it isn't. Apple's display is not uniform and blooms all over the place. It's not a bad pro monitor, it's not a pro monitor at all. It literally cannot be used for color-critical work.

duluca 4y ago

The LG counter part of this monitor does pretty well for driving both a Mac and a PC. With a simple usb switch you can even share mouse, keyboard, webcam and a 4th device via one cable attached to laptop or pc. For 3090 though, you need https://evedevices.com/pages/spectrum https://evedevices.com/pages/spectrum. I’m waiting for mine to ship.

azinman2 4y ago

> I didn’t try the display’s terrible webcam. Isn’t the webcam one of the selling points? I thought it was 12MP and supported center stage?

tallytarik 4y ago

Had a similarly frustrating experience trying to connect a new gaming PC to a LG Ultrafine 4K. The all-USB C aspect of the monitor was fine when I only used it with my Macbook, but made it terribly painful to use with anything else. In the end I found a HDMI to USB C dongle which worked, also included a plain USB 2.0 cable for audio. Apparently I was ‘lucky’ to have the 4K rather than 5K, because, from my research at the time, nobody knew of any dongles or cables that would support the latter at full resolution (I think this is the same issue as in your article)

dusted 4y ago

What an excellent commercial for the Apple Studio Display: "It's so good people are bending over backwards to get to use it!"

buro9 4y ago

I recently purchased an Asus X570 ProArt motherboard, and it comes with a nice thing... Two Thunderbolt 4 ports and a Display port input that loops in from the discrete graphics card so that the signal can be shipped over Thunderbolt https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/ProArt/ProArt-X570-CREATOR-WIFI/ https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Pr... The result of this built in magic is that a single USB-C cable leaves my PC and goes to my desk. At this point it terminates into a CalDigit TS3+ and sprawls out to all the devices on the desk. I would be curious to see whether this motherboard could work directly with the studio display fully featured. Not that I expect it to be good, I expect Apple have added something so that the display only shines when connected to an Apple device.

rcarmo 4y ago

Good thing I bought an LG Ultra-Wide when my iMac died. Now I can plug in _anything_ to it and still get Retina-grade resolution…

tobyhinloopen 4y ago

I remember the times where Apple’s display had just a standard connector that worked on any device. Apple’s anti-consumerism keeps showing. Ah well, plenty of other displays available. There’s no real reason to buy a Apple Studio Display for 1600$ for a PC, as there are plenty of other great displays for that price. I got a 27” 4K 120Hz HDR1000 G-Sync display for that amount (Acer ConceptD CP7 / CP7271 or something). Sure, it’s not 5K, but other than that is is a great display and doesn’t look “gamery”. It uses local dimming for HDR and gets really bright. Looks really good!

rkuska 4y ago

> Unfortunately, vanishingly few desktop gaming PCs have any Thunderbolt support. And even if your machine happens to include a Thunderbolt port, it’s unlikely to be able to route frames from your discrete graphics card, which would defeat the purpose of connecting it to your Studio Display to play games. I solved this problem with https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 https://www.delock.com/produkt/89582/merkmale.html?g=1112 . By a problem I mean connecting my monitor (DELL) via "thunderbolt" (it's actually usb-c dp alt) to desktop. I use my monitor as USB hub and I wanted to connect it with just a single cable (usb-c dp alt transfers both video and usb utils).

Dave3of5 4y ago

Why is the HDMI port not an option here. It presumable can do sound and picture. Is the problem just wanting to use like the webcam and build in ports and such ?

searls 4y ago
The HDMI port on the RTX 3090 is 2.1 (48gbps) and should be able to push resolutions higher than 4K, but it's no better than the DisplayPort. Both HDMI & DisplayPort carry audio signals, but the Apple Studio Display only pipes audio over USB, so a single passive HDMI or DP cable will not transmit audio