9 ms·

Fixing a bricked Framework laptop

• jcastro 1mo ago
  Don't bother with the motherboard, the new BIOS is worse. I have two that just randomly shut off whenever they feel like it. I just bought a thinkpad instead, shrug.
• nashashmi 1mo ago
  If the motherboard has so many parts that could fail independently, and each part is small money, then maybe the motherboard should also become modular?
• gonzalohm 1mo ago
  A bit off-topic, but kind of relevant. I firmly believe that if installing custom firmware voids the warranty of a device, installing official updates should extend the warranty. I'm tired of sloppy updates or change of behavior that mess with how I use MY device. At this point, I'm convinced Google is doing this on purpose. My Google TV has become slow since the Gemini update, which I wasn't asked if I wanted it. My pixel battery life gets worse with every update, etc.
  • dd8601fn 1mo ago
    I’ve had that problem with Roku, Google, and Vizio updates too, over the years. At this point I’m comfortable saying that on device “Smart TV” software is a crime against humanity, full stop.
  • dec0dedab0de 1mo ago
    Google bricked all of the old fitbit scales with a firmware that glitches out and drains the battery. There were tons of reports at the time, but the devices were out of warranty so they didn’t fix it.
  • zogulus 1mo ago
    I lost my google mesh network to a firmware update, ofc I didn't even ask for it to be updated, they just shipped an update that bricked the devices. Just got an "out of warranty" response after they gave me the normal suggestions of trying to reboot, etc.
  • jerlam 1mo ago
    Google seems to have "directives from high" where they shoehorn the latest fad into all their existing devices, regardless of whether it works or not, on a tight schedule. Gemini is the latest one. I had Google WiFi points that worked fine, and then there was a directive to merge them into Google Home. They didn't show up correctly in the Home app for a year or so.
    • hn_go_brrrrr 1mo ago
      This is literally the case, and it's not just with products that get shipped externally.
  • jszymborski 1mo ago
    IANAL but I'm pretty sure the authors of software are liable for damages to property their software might cause. Regardless of whether that is the case, legislation should be enacted to ensure this and make complaints/remuneration standard and easy to extract without the costs of taking a huge company to court.
    • gonzalohm 1mo ago
      I don't know. Out of curiosity I went to framework website, found the software license for their BIOS firmware and it says "Software distributed under the License is distributed AS IS basis, without WARRANTY OF ANY KIND..."
      • jszymborski 1mo ago
        Again, IANAL, but you can't disclaim certain liabilities.
      • pbhjpbhj 1mo ago
        EU has a minimum warranty period (2 years?) on electrical goods. UK has Consumer Rights Act that amounts to a limited warranty for as long as a reasonable person would expect the item to last(!). These disclaimers are to specify that any language elsewhere that sounds like a warranty -- 'we take pride in our work and ensure every laptop meets exacting standards' -- has a silent addendum of 'not a warranty' so you can't actually win in court claiming "this didn't meet exacting standards" (ymmv).
  • bsimpson 1mo ago
    > installing official updates should extend the warranty. That sounds like a big incentive to never ship updates.
    • gonzalohm 1mo ago
      That's better than bricking devices
      • shibapuppie 1mo ago
        Yeah we should go back to Windows XP or some other OS that no longer receives updates. Now they can't break it!
    • KolmogorovComp 1mo ago
      Just also make compagnies liable about any unpatched security issues for hardware newer than X years.
    • brewtide 1mo ago
      I don't know. I'm sitting here with a framework laptop consciously NOT updating it because I'm in no mood to have my computer SOL because a company can't seem to get their shit together? Of note, I really like my framework, and I have installed BIOS updates on the past without issue. However, there have been a lot of firmware problems and fixes that are not fixes (battery related) and then bios updates that apparently cut the sound volume down to far lower levels than before the update, etc. A user shouldn't have to worry about installing a BIOS update from the manufacturer causing the machine to die without circumstances like power loss, etc. I feel personally that if such a BIOS update bricks someone's device, it should unquestionably be "we are sorry, let us send you out a new board asap". They can then reflash using pogo pins and send them out to other customers. Accountability these days doesn't exist anywhere. It's making the world shit.
• reshux 1mo ago
  I bought a Framework 13 in 2021. I was so stoked. I used it for 5 years, and of those 5 years only 1 was heavy use. I had to replace the battery and the input cover. I never had to do that before. I never had a laptop I wasn't able to use for 5 years so the repairability was actually not that much better for me. I gave up on Framework because after 5 years they still didn't give a crap about terrible battery performance on Linux distros. I was using a Macbook Pro before. Went back to a Macbook Pro again. I don't want a Mac. I just can't find anything else remotely worth my money.
  • spacemanspiff01 1mo ago
    From reading online, linux battery seems to be a-lot better on the new intel board, and also if you configure linux with sleep to hibernate, you get really good behavioral performance. My experience is that the sleep states really drain the battery since the low power mode is not _that_ low power, at least with the ram I have. For context I have a 13th gen intel with the old battery and only get ~4hrs of battery life, but generally go a week or 2 between full shutdowns, since I hibernate all the time. I can close the lid, throw it in my backpack, not use it for the weekend, and when I open it it is ready to go, not having lost charge. I generally have a better experience than when I was on windows.
• Sweepi 1mo ago
  > For three years, the laptop has served me well, until Framework suggested via newsletter to install the latest BIOS update, version 3.20, with a bunch of security fixes. Unfortunately, the system hung and displayed a corrupt image on the screen, signifying a failed BIOS flash. > Naturally, I reached out to Framework support, who told me to unplug the laptop, let the battery drain, and power it back on again afterwards, hoping the laptop would recover by itself. Unfortunately, it never did, and after giving Framework a bunch of information, they informed me that since my 1-year warranty has expired, I have no option but to purchase a new Framework motherboard, which will cost at least CA$500. This is very disappointing. 1) Framework failed in not implementing a bootloader which takes a BIOS file on a USB-Stick and flashes it w/o requiring a working BIOS/Firmware or even a CPU/RAM. Every $70 Desktop-Mainboard worth its salt has this feature. 2) Considering 1) and that it was an official BIOS that caused the issue, Framework should repair (replacing/re-flashing the BIOS chip) for shipping fees max. I am furious. We have recovery-bootloaders in devices with $10 bill of materials. Its not rocket science!
  • throwaway2037 1mo ago
    > bootloader which takes a BIOS file on a USB-Stick and flashes it w/o requiring a working BIOS/Firmware or even a CPU/RAM For those unaware, this is sometimes called "BIOS recovery" or "crashfree BIOS". In short, if a BIOS update fails and bricks your motherboard, you can load the image of a known-working BIOS update onto a USB memory stick. Normally, a single USB slot on the motherboard has a special marking to indicate that it can be used to "unbrick" the motherboard. Insert the USB memory stick, start the PC, and the BIOS recovery should be automatic. I agree with the parent post: This would be an excellent feature for Framework Computer to add. From a simple Google search, it appears that their desktop computer already has this feature.
  • thisislife2 1mo ago
    I sympathise with both parties. As customers, things like these really do test our patience. I wanted to support Jolla / Sailfish and purchased their phone but dealing with the bugs in the OS, for years, even as I was using it as my main phone, was sometimes exasperating, if not down right frustrating. At the same time, it was also disheartening to see Jolla make wrong business decisions, and struggle to stay alive as a business. Sad to see Framework struggling with their products too. It is difficult to not be angry at a company you want to support but are also pissed at because you are not getting your money's worth.
• markbnj 1mo ago
  Good story, and surprising that there was so little assistance from the OEM. As an aside, I got to test out Asus crash free BIOS a couple of weeks ago. A strong thunderstorm hit and before I could get to my office a rapid series of deep voltage drops occurred. I shut down my systems and waited out the storm. When I powered my Asus tower back on it failed to POST, automatically restarted, recovered the BIOS (CMOS settings I assume), restarted again and booted Windows. Pretty slick, and instantly removed that cold lump of lead that had formed in my gut.
  • inventor7777 1mo ago
    Asus has their gimmicks but that sounds genuinely cool and well thought out!
• FfejL 1mo ago
  Was seriously considering getting a Framework to replace my aging ASUS. Upgrade- and repair-ability were my main motivations. But now I'm reconsidering. Not standing behind their own BIOS update is pretty horrible.
  • zvmaz 1mo ago
    I had a very different experience with the Framework team. The battery died (within the warranty period), I reached out to them, they asked some questions, then sent me a brand new one. Very satisfied with my Framework laptop and the customer support. I can't imagine buying another laptop.
    • spacemanspiff01 1mo ago
      I had good experience within warranty period, but there was still some funky-ness with a non-posting board... I do sometimes wonder if it was a bios corruption - It died after running the battery 100% to zero... That being said, I think the particular bios-chip is a design flaw that they should communicate about and fix for future boards... Probably a teething issue thing, but they should fix it. Either a usable replaceable chip so they can just send out a fix, or the fallback bios chip....
    • sokoloff 1mo ago
      Replacing a battery that failed under warranty should be a baseline expectation. Not "terrible" obviously, but a slight negative that the battery failed under warranty and a slight positive that they honored their published warranty.
    • throwaway2037 1mo ago
      This reply seems like a non-sequitor and does not respond to GPs concern. How would you feel if a BIOS update outside of warranty bricked your motherboard? I am sure you would not say the same.
      • zvmaz 1mo ago
        I was responding to the person casting doubts on whether he/she should buy a Framework laptop by providing my own experience as a very happy customer. I still think he/she should go for a Framework. As for BIOS updates outside warranty, I think it's always been risky for all brands. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think "non-sequitor" applies here.
• bodge5000 1mo ago
  After months of waiting on preorder (in which time I could've cancelled it), my Framework 16 finally arrived just yesterday, so this is a very unfortunately timed article for me. Mine is using the AI 300 chip and is presumably on the latest bios so this specifically wouldn't be a problem for me, but it doesn't fill me with future confidence either, though I suppose if you look hard enough you can find similar stories about any manufacturer
• anthonj 1mo ago
  I really don't understand how in 2025 a competent company can't implement a trival A/B flash update. Do they depend on some obscure contractor for the firmware and have no power here?
  • benjojo12 1mo ago
    As with many things, "It's complicated" but effectively, yes Such system firmware is generally provided by AMI / Insyde / Phoenix and similar. There are a few vendors who decide to go their own way (notably google using a fork of Coreboot for their chromebooks), but it's generally list of vendors that you can count on a single hand. If it means anything I'm pretty sure AMI provides A/B updates on most products i've used with their stuff.
    • Gormo 1mo ago
      But that's always been the case. Phoenix and AMI have been the dominant BIOS providers for over 30 years. Both have always provided modular tookits for OEMs to customize their own ROM images, write their own ACPI tables, etc. UEFI gives even more control to the OEMs. If Framework isn't doing that properly, that's on them.
      • mananaysiempre 1mo ago
        It appears that Framework contracted out the development of their (Insyde-based) firmware to somebody who, to put it mildly, does not treat them as a priority. Either way, Framework’s firmware is really bad, and that’s entirely on Framework; you can look around on the forums for the horror stories in the (open) EC code around power delivery for instance. As another example of a vendor low-key screwing Framework in a way that I think it’s entirely appropriate to blame Framework themselves for, the first couple 13-inch models could charge off 5V chargers. The newer ones still have the necessary hardware, but whoever they get their power circuitry from cut that bit from the firmware on a newer chip version, and Framework obediently went “welp, guess we don’t have that feature anymore”.
        • 1mo ago
• semiquaver 1mo ago
  My framework was sitting in a drawer for two years and now will not turn on no matter how long I charge it. I assume there’s a dead coin cell in there somewhere or something that needs changed but it’s pretty disappointing.
  • lostmsu 1mo ago
    My old crappy HP laptop boots with a battery pulled out.
    • deleted 1mo ago
      [deleted]
  • mananaysiempre 1mo ago
    IIRC the only Frameworks that have a coin cell in them are the 13-inch 11th-gen Intel ones (i.e. the OG model), and it should be right there staring you in the face as you lift the keyboard. There’s indeed a known design flaw[1] around that cell in that it the laptop isn’t wired to drain its own actual battery instead; an email to support or a look on the forums should allow you to sort things out. [1] https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+11th+Gen+Intel%C2%AE+Core%E2%84%A2/203 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+...
    • semiquaver 1mo ago
      Thanks, will try that.
    • throwaway2037 1mo ago
      I looked at the shared link. The laptop manuf is recommending that people solder a wire between two points to eliminate a coin battery from the motherboard. Wild.
      • Maskawanian 1mo ago
        Yup, I had to do that to get mine to work. It is a good thing that I am more experienced then the average bear when it comes to soldering. When it was **ed, I could still get it to boot with an AC adapter plugged in, so you can try that.
• gnfargbl 1mo ago
  > Still, I was very disappointed that Framework chose to entrust sensitive information to a third-party who obviously couldn’t keep the data safe. Then you're going to be very disappointed a lot. When HIBP first came out, I worried over each incident. These days, breaches of non-payment data are so common that I don't even bother to sign up for notifications. When it comes to PII, we live in a de facto panopticon.
  • sgarman 1mo ago
    This was the only point I disagreed with the author on. They used metabase, a tool for their internal employees to manage the business and review their data. It's not some crazy 3rd party marketing tool or something, it's an internal BI tool that had a zero day. More zero days are coming.
• SCdF 1mo ago
  I agree with their conclusion. I somewhat regret buying my framework laptop at this stage, because the answer to every fault is "buy a new component, from framework". I'm not sure I blame them for this really, but there is no competitive market of parts (or really any market at all), which means that the reality is that you're just locking your money to them. They also often have stock issues, so woe betide you if your component fails at the wrong time. It's very hard to predict costs here, but framework laptops do seem to fail more than other brands, and their laptops do tend to be more expensive. In comparison to MacBooks I've used over the years, which other than screen delaminating, have been faultless, at least.
  • beanjuiceII 1mo ago
    having 2 fw 13s this is my experience as well (and also friends who bought into FW); i was willing to give the 13 pro a try until they downgraded my order. I inevitably cancelled and went with a dell xps14 and its a fantastic laptop. I am unsure bout any future fw purchases. also my m1 macbook pro is made so well I've abused this to the cows come home and i feel like it still has another 3+ years to it.. everytime someone brings up the e-waste aspects of fw, i don't know if its that simple...because i've definitely already generated much more e-waste with my frameworks than any other laptop i've bought in the last decade that being said, i do like the fw vision, but they might be trying to do TOO much that their quality is suffering for it
    • throwuxiytayq 1mo ago
      > because i've definitely already generated much more e-waste with my frameworks than any other laptop i've bought in the last decade How so? Most FW parts seem quite resellable, did you just throw them away after upgrading or something?
    • bityard 1mo ago
      A couple years ago, my personal laptop died and that was all the excuse I needed to finally get one of these Framework laptops that everyone was raving about. I was all set to part with roughly $1700. Pulled my credit card out of my wallet and everything. Until I started filling out the order information and they said it was backordered for 6 months! Yeah, I couldn't wait that long. I started looking at refurbished Dell Precisions and came across one that was $800 with specs not _too_ far off from the Framework 16. Not exactly what a wanted, but it ticked all the boxes and was a very decent deal. I procrastinated a bit by accident and then happened to be checking back on the morning of Black Friday and saw that they had cut the price to $400. I've never clicked "Add to Cart" so fast in my life. Now, to be fair, when it arrived the battery was pretty much toast and the webcam didn't work, so after sourcing replacements and fixing those myself, it ended up being more like a $500 laptop. Still a bargain for a pretty damn good machine. It has done everything I asked of it. I'm very happy that I wasn't able to order a Framework and walked away from the experience $1000 richer.
• mchristen 1mo ago
  My support experience has been quite similar. Lots of required evidence, slow responses, and then just links to buy replacement parts in the store. The kicker is that the things they were telling me to buy didn't even fix the problem. My fingerprint reader was very flakey, and after replacing it and all cabling connected to it, it still didn't work. They then told me to buy a whole new input cover which was the wrong solution again. The issue was the touchpad, which routes the signal for the fingerprint sensor through its circuit board. They also encouraged me heavily to update the BIOS and firmware of everything aggressively before really digging into any of the kernel messages I was seeing. All that said, it's really hard to complain that for $50 and some waiting I was easily able to fix the problem. Compared to replacing the battery on a MacBook pro which took me 5hrs and required complete disassembly of the chassis sans fans it was a dream. Here's to hoping that framework does better, they do seem to take well to community feedback.
• maeln 1mo ago
  I have a framework 13 for. Actually the same model as OP (AMD 7040 series). I have never been as conflicted on a laptop as this one. I do love many things about it : The whole expansion card system is awesome. It does feel a bit redundant with a simple usb-c hub that do the usual network, hdmi, usb-a, but being able to set it on the side that fit my current setup is much appreciated. I love the form factor and the screen ratio also. The linux support have been very good for me. And being able to open it up with just one tool and have detailed repair manual is amazing. But on that last point, it's also the first laptop in a while that I had to get into to fix something. The webcam never worked. That's not a linux issue, it's just that my fw13 is a hand me down from a previous colleague who I believe borked the webcam installation. But I don't use the webcam, so I never cared. On the other hand, when I first got it, the cpu fan was emitting a constant high pitch whine. After some research I wasn't the only one affected, and the support had me do a lot of steps before sending a replacement part (which was very easy to install, but the problem should not have been there in the first place). I also had some random crashes that I was never able to debug. The mic is very meh also. I never use it in anycase with my setup but still. But at the same time, I don't see myself switching to another laptop. Despite all, this is still the laptop that felt the most "right" to me. I do believe that Framework has to seriously step up their support and QA game. But it does feel like it's a company that is "suffering from success". They got big investment, lots of publicities in some circle and so I feel like they have to produce and sell way more computer than the rest of the business can reasonably handle. I hope it's a “necessary evil” for them to get enough customers and revenue to start being able to attract more investment and being able to invest more in the “quality” side of the biz. EDIT: I should say, being in the E.U make it so that I have an automatic 2 year guarantee, so I didn't have to experience the whole "just buy new parts lmao"
• susanthenerd 1mo ago
  Honestly, this is why I like Dutch consumer law. Dutch law states that the guarantee duration is dependent on the expected lifespan of a product. Continued official BIOS support is evidence that the device remains within its supported lifetime and also dutch law treats defective or incomplete updates as non-conformity. Therefore, in this situation it would be framework fault and the device would also be within warranty.
  • throwaway2037 1mo ago
    The Australia consumer laws are also famously strong. One question: That Dutch law is not zero-cost. Does Framework Laptop charger higher prices compared to the US due to this consumer protection laws? My point: We can presume that Dutch buyers will make more (valid/accepted) warranty claims than those in the United States (with comparatively much weaker consumer laws).
    • _jackdk_ 1mo ago
      Yeah, the ACL is fantastic. I have an AMD Framework 13 that had a fan bearing fail, which caused the fan to scream and spin up/down erratically. I had a long back-and-forth with Framwework support where they told me what I already knew (the fan bearing failed and the fan needed replacing) and that it was out of warranty (yeah nah, not in Australia). As soon as I mentioned the consumer guarantees under the ACL, I was invited to remove the SSD and ship the unit to their service centre for a fix. The machine has been fine since and I still really like it.
      • throwaway2037 1mo ago
        Legendary story. Thank you to share. Another win for ACL! BTW: Loved this part: "yeah nah".
        • _jackdk_ 1mo ago
          It helped that Apple had a page for their statutory warranty in AU, so I could point to the sticker price of both machines and say "look, Apple acknowledges the consumer guarantee for at least 24 months after purchase and possibly longer, and I have paid a similar amount of money for a Framework". https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/statutory_warranty-au.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/docs/statutory_warranty... (Page 2): > Without limiting consumers rights, Apple will provide its own remedies equivalent to those remedies in the consumer guarantee provisions of the Australian Consumer Law at any time within 24 months of the date of purchase. For the avoidance of doubt, Apple acknowledges that the Australian Consumer Law may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products.
• fwipsy 1mo ago
  Framework seems pretty popular here in general, but nobody really seems to talk about how repairable enterprise laptops are. Some laptops have clips around the edge of the bottom panel to hold it in place, which frequently break. On my brother's T480s, those clips were made out of metal and held in with screws, meaning they were themselves replaceable. More recently I worked on a Dell Precision 7550 laptop, and if you crack it open everything is labeled just like a Framework. Also, before selling it I ran the onboard diagnostic. I was surprised when it told me to check the touchpad cable, because the touchpad was working fine. Took it apart again and yep, the touchpad cable was loose. Framework really caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle, but Dell/Lenovo/HP have been selling repairable laptops to IT departments for decades. In addition, they're a much more mature product -- been selling laptops for much longer at much higher volumes. Thinkpads are the prototypical example but I actually like Dells better. Many of them are Ubuntu-certified as well.
  • whateverboat 1mo ago
    > Framework really caught everyone's attention with the fun DIY repair angle, but Dell/Lenovo/HP have been selling repairable laptops to IT departments for decades. Yeah, but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time? That is such a quantum leap. You do not have to adjust your self to a new keyboard just because you wanted a new processor.
    • a2ff6eeb0 1mo ago
      Yeah, every time they change my laptop's mainboard, they definitely do it with a ton of time.
    • pudgywalsh 1mo ago
      > but does Dell allow you to change your laptop's mainboard for another mainboard with time Business laptops are swapped out every few years. Reusable chassis? Literally no one asked for this, it makes no sense outside of a very, very small community of enthusiasts who think it's cool. Restricting yourself to no mechanical changes/improvements in perpetuity is not the flex you think it is. Keyboards wear out, the chassis gets dented/scratched. Thermal requirements change. This feature is for no one.
• throwaway2037 1mo ago
  I think cases like this should be brought before a small claims court. It seems unfair. The company (Framework Computer) provided the software, but the software is faulty and broke ("bricked") the laptop. Can you imagine if a GPU driver caused the card to get bricked? Even if out of warranty, surely the manuf would be legally liable in many jurisdictions for this faulty driver. The author's LinkedIn profile[1] tells me that this person lives/works in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. While the issue is already fixed, for others affected with the same issue, I would suggest the small claims route. Make sure to talk with an LLM to follow the correct steps to gather and prepare evidence for your claim. If you are lucky enough to win, then you should "go nuclear" on social media (and their own forums) to share the win and the exact details about how you did it. Framework Computer will surely (1) cave and provide replacements or (2) be flooded with small claims about this issue. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/guanzhong-chen/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/guanzhong-chen/
  • shibapuppie 1mo ago
    "talk with an LLM to follow the correct steps" Or, if you need legal advice, go to a lawyer, not an LLM.
    • LeBit 1mo ago
      In Canada , there are cases where people self represent in court because they think a LLM replaces an expensive lawyer. The last one that tried that was fined 5,000$ for wasting the court’s time.
      • quantum5 1mo ago
        Author here. I am not even sure how much damage I can actually claim given that I spent $20 on tools to fix the laptop. If I bought a new board, I might be able to claim that, but filing small claims over $20 is likely not worth anyone's time. The important thing here is awareness and helping anyone affected, not trying to get Framework fined for a tiny sum.
        • 1mo ago
• twentyfiveoh1 1mo ago
  this is disappointing. I need a new machine soon but I am not interested in Framework if they are going to play the usual games. Is thinkpad really it? I wasn't wildly excited about that one either.
  • DANmode 1mo ago
    Exciting tools are often dangerous.
    • Brian_K_White 1mo ago
      This problem was not the natural result of "exiting". There is no reason FW couldn't supply a recovery method. That's not "hey that's life on the bleeding edge!" For that matter, the whole product isn't bleeding edge since years ago anyway. Someone else noticed that there is actually a (unpopulated) header for flashing, which avoids the janky pogo pin thing even unpopulated. Why didn't fw point him at it when explicitly asked? And even if they had, where is the firmware image to use with it? They have it, so there is nothing about the "exiting" nature of the product that stops them from saying something more helpful than "throw the motherboard away".
      • DANmode 1mo ago
        What’s this have to do with my T420 and T480 being great, despite not having consumer “looks”.
  • qu4z-2 1mo ago
    FWIW I bricked a ThinkPad motherboard not that long ago by toggling the wrong BIOS options. Wasn't even a BIOS update (although ironically that would've fixed it), just toggling setting in the F2 Setup Menu. The target configuration was supported, but apparently there was a BIOS bug where if you toggled two different settings without rebooting inbetween, it bricked the motherboard (technically people online found some solutions that involved resoldering chips on the mobo but that's a little outside of my comfort zone). I believe it was Quiet Boot and... some sort of Thunderbolt controller mode? But I don't remember exactly.
• lejalv 1mo ago
  The entire USB-C situation with the Frameworks (I have both the original gen 11 and the AMD 7040) is a massive train wreck. They have clearly given up on fixing it. Only some of my ports work, and not reliably. Th EC controller is a bug fest. If you don't believe me, check their forums. I wish I could get back all the hours I spent debugging this, to no avail.
  • mchristen 1mo ago
    I'm lucky that I had no USBC issues with mine I guess. Unlike my ryzen desktop that hard locks when resuming from suspend sometimes when it goes to enumerate the USB devices. If I time a key press right I can get it to continue some times, but if I miss the window it just shuts down entirely. AMD has had several USB based issues on their 500 series chipsets, x570 etc. so part of me wonders how much of these problems are on the vendor vs the integrator.
    • jorvi 1mo ago
      If you're on Linux you might be able to use a combination of modprobe + udev + systemd unit files to hardcode a solution. Either you hardcode your keyboard and mouse absolutely into kernel parameters, or you make two systemd unit files: one that runs with before suspend and one that runs 'before' resume. You make the before suspend unit file manually temporarily disable USB enumeration. And the before resume unit file enables it again. This trick at least works with Gigabyte Aorus 5XX motherboards that have an infamous suspend bug, where any used PCIe SSD slot would prevent the system from properly suspending and you have to disable the slot temporarily. Also, always check the NixOS repo for stuff like this. In some ways it has started to rival or even surpass the Arch wiki for finding workarounds for hardware quirks.
• uqual 1mo ago
  I had considered buying a Framework laptop. This systemic lack of support for the product for two problems of their own making, both the original design flaw of inadequate recovery from a broken BIOS and producing a bad BIOS for some models and actually encouraging its installation, is more than alarming. My primary concern about Framework was if they would survive so they were capable of following up on their goal of modular upgrades. That was a risk that I was willing to take. However, that a company that targets a market segment of fairly sophisticated technologists would fail this badly on _both_ engineering and customer support is a deal killer. Framework is not even on the shopping radar now for me.
• vaylian 1mo ago
  I know that firmware (and software in general) has bugs. But I wonder why modern firmware for UEFI has to be so complex, that it needs updates on a regular basis. It would be nice to have a dead-simple hardware-initialisation system that doesn't need regular updates and that only has very limited attack surface.
  • wedemmoez 1mo ago
    That is the dream isn't it? But there's no such thing since even a simple one that requires no updates would have some sort of vulnerability that needs an update, and the cycle continues.
    • vaylian 1mo ago
      I agree. But we could still try to have a smaller hardware initialisation system. And if there is the occasional need to patch a security vulnerability, then that patch is probably a lot more straightforward.
      • mixmastamyk 1mo ago
        UEFI is it’s own OS, but Apple went back to minimal firmware.
  • doublepg23 1mo ago
    SeaBIOS on a Coreboot laptop is pretty minimal. Paltry CPU speeds on anything that supports it nowadays, but fun for a beater system.
    • vaylian 1mo ago
      Coreboot looks promising. Do you know why the CPU speeds are so bad? And do they get better once the main operating system starts up?
      • doublepg23 1mo ago
• tlhunter 1mo ago
  I have the same AMD 7040 Framework laptop and just had the keyboard fault explained in this thread where the "-", "0", and "P" keys stop working: https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-framework13-keyboard-has-intermittent-keys/33279/1 https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-framework13-keyboard... While it's nice to know that I can buy a $100 replacement keyboard (I'm about 6 months out of warranty) it's also frustrating that Framework wouldn't own up to what is obviously a manufacturing failure.
• 47635274172635 1mo ago
  I recommend people who have a soldering iron to start experimenting with enameled wire. It's easily sourced from any random coil/inductor/switching transformer/broken speaker even. Dip the tip of the wire in some flux and keep it on the tip of the iron for a bit so enamel clears away and tins the wire. This way you can solder the thin wires in crammed places, don't have to stress about them shorting out anything they touch, easily routable and they don't put stress on the solder joint, like a regular thicker wire would. Working with this type of wire made things easier for me in these sorts of situations. And it's perfectly adequate for signal (withing reason, if not very high speed), and even some power, few mA needed for these kinds of chips is no issue.
• darthcloud 1mo ago
  I had the same thing happen to me with my Thinkpad Nano, and researching how to fix this made me realize pc manufacturer really don't care. PC bricked from BIOS update are still ultra common. I uploaded a dump of the flash [1] in the bad state and they somehow analyzed it and made a fix. Great for others I guess, but I'm still mindblown that the regular path would have been that this perfectly working laptop to this day become ewaste. Being an embedded dev, I don't understand why there isn't a special USB-C protocol to recover bios over SDU/CC pins. Or some DFU mode you can boot into. [1] https://github.com/fwupd/firmware-lenovo/issues/484 https://github.com/fwupd/firmware-lenovo/issues/484
  • leonheld 1mo ago
    > Or some DFU mode you can boot into. Ironically, Macs do have that, no?
    • X-Istence 1mo ago
      Yep, you can do a DFU recovery on a Mac from another Mac over USB. Same as if it were an iPhone/iPad. Which makes sense since it's basically the same hardware.
  • Nextgrid 1mo ago
    > I don't understand why there isn't a special USB-C protocol to recover bios over SDU/CC pins Not enough of these cases happen under warranty for them to bother (and out of warranty cases are either neutral, or even beneficial to them if they drive sales of new hardware).
  • bsimpson 1mo ago
    Lenovo also just had it happen with their Legion Go. They finally pulled the BIOS from distribution, but doesn't sound like they're doing anything to help the victims whose devices got bricked by a bad update.
  • javchz 1mo ago
    In PCs it's usual for a lot of motherboards have a dual bios, so if something fails (eg no POST) in the update, the mobo fall backs to the other one. It's a cheap chip in bulk, that would help a lot in cases like this.
• 1saadcodes 1mo ago
  I really like what Framework is trying to do but this story is very hard to ignore. If a failed BIOS update can brick the machine, and the official solution is a CA$500+ motherboard (that's about $350+ USD I belieive), there's still a pretty big gap between being modular and being truly repairable Not to mention there are no "alternatives" that you can look into to purchase these replacements. You are essentially just locked to purchasing from Framework only
  • alt227 1mo ago
    > a failed BIOS update can brick the machine As far as I am aware a failed bios/firmware update on any device can cause it to brick, thats why they always come with massive warnings everywhere. I personally do not just do bios updates because some OEM marketing said so. The old saying does me well, "If it aint broke dont fix it"
    • rincebrain 1mo ago
      Some nicer boards have redundant copies of the BIOS so if you fuck up the update, it boots the old one. Various enterprise boards with BMCs can flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked. You might even be able to do that with Intel AMT, but I've never had occasion to try.
  • whateverboat 1mo ago
    Yeah but this is true for every laptop vendor. Framework is not worse here, and yes, Framework is supposed to be better, but it cannot be better in everything at once. It is already better that you only need to buy a 350USD motherboard instead of a 1200 Euro laptop.
    • filoleg 1mo ago
      > this is true for every laptop vendor Are there any reports out there of macbook OTA updates causing laptops to become entirely unbootable with no recovery options (and, in case it actually happened, Apple refusing to fix/replace affected laptops at no extra cost)? I am yet to hear of it being a thing, and I would love to be proven wrong.
• john_strinlai 1mo ago
  the conclusion section is a pretty damning and disappointing read. i'm realizing that framework's marketing swayed my opinion a lot more than i thought. i was seriously considering a framework laptop when my current one dies, but i'll probably just end up going with a thinkpad again, as the level of serviceability seems a lot closer to equal than i was lead to believe, and apparently there is no "feel good" advantage of buying framework.
• cab404 1mo ago
  I had a similar story with Framework support. I've bought 12th gen i7 FW, and after about a year, a fan bearing had failed. Despite originally sending me a laptop through a freight forwarder (FF), they both refused to send me a replacement fan for free, and to sell me one to FF address. I had to use other means to buy myself a new fan (It is not sold separately from the heatsink), paying around 50 bucks for it. After another year my motherboard stopped working completely. Framework refused support besides the post light interpretation, did not give any schematics, and outright ignored emails from my company with requests for schematics. Autopsy shown that CPU just freaking cracked in the middle. I've got a replacement 12th gen i5 from a friend of mine, and not 3-4 months later it met pretty much the same fate, except it looks a tad bit more alive (no visible damage to the crystal, no blown mosfets, no nothing). I cannot diagnose power circuitry without spending time to reverse engineer it, and no local shops would accept it. At this point, given that you don't have any documentation nor parts available in most of the world, FW is generally less repairable than a macbook. For macbooks you can at least buy docs at Vinafix (and for most other laptops too), and chineese replacement parts pretty much anywhere. I don't really care what they are telling about «waa waa cant release schematicc nda» or «scammers use ff u will die using it». System76 doesn't care about FF, and provides warranty replacements. They could have tried to renegotiate NDA terms for older boards, or outright let someone leak them; they could have remembered their Coreboot promises; they could have done lot more to actually make something that doesn't just look repairable and hackable. Instead, they've spent their money to make a nice to use, yet unfixable piece of trash currently lying in my closet and waiting for some cheap board to show up on aftermarket. So, heed my warning. As good as their promise sounds, you better off supporting someone who actually cares about the mission of repairability, and not just doing whatever poser shitshow they are doing.
• hojjat12000 1mo ago
  It's interesting to read this. Because I recently had something similar happened to me and I had mixed feelings like the author here. I have the original Framework 13, but I have almost changed everything inside of it (motherboard AMD 7840U, wifi 7, ram 96GB, ssd, better hinge, the CNC shell, hdmi dongle v3, APU Fan, speakers v2, webcam v2). I still was using the original battery and it was at 60% health. So, I decided to update to the 61W battery. After changing the battery, I decided to turn on the battery charge limit to keep the battery at a cool 60% charge to increase its lifespan. First interesting thing I faced was realizing that Framework has 2 methods for the battery limit implementation. You have to use framework-tools and set it on the ec instead of the standard Kernel module. The kernel allows you to set the min and max, but the ec just allows you to set the max, and it will automatically set max-5 as the min. But what was more frustrating, was realizing and when it gets to that threshold it constantly discharges 5-9W until it gets to the min and then charges the battery again back to the threshold. So, if you set a threshold it keeps charging that 5% once an hour, instead of parking the battery and waiting for the natural discharge to get to the min (which should be days later, since when you're plugged in the battery is not used for anything, it's like your laptop is off, not sleep, off). But the good thing is the ec code is open source, I found the code, dug into it, found a bug, fixed it, flashed it, and for the past 2 weeks my battery is working perfectly. I opened a PR, then found a multi hundred forum post of people talking about something similar with no proper solution, or any fixes in the ec. And my PR has been sitting there with no attention from Framework. Setting a battery threshold is actually worse for your battery because of this bug, but nobody is in a rush to fix it! So, I'm mad that Framework operates this way, their circuitry, power delivery, and software is flawed (just read the forum thread[1]). On the other hand I'm happy I can see the code, find the bug, and fix it at least for myself! Feels like the hardware version of Linux! If you are technical, you can literally change how your kernel behaves. You can't recommend it to your Mom, but you definitely prefer it to the closed alternatives. [1] https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-battery-flipping-between-charging-and-discharging-draws-from-battery-even-on-ac/22484 https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-battery-flipping-bet...
  • poizan42 1mo ago
    It's crazy, the last time any PRs got merged was back in January 2024 [0]. Seems it has just become a black hole completely ignored by anyone at framework. [0] https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController/pull...
• smetannik 1mo ago
  Tip: if you already have Raspberry Pi, your can skip purchasing CH347. RPi has SPI pins and is supported by flashrom.
  • quantum5 1mo ago
    Original author here. I have a Raspberry Pi, but I still recommend the CH347 instead of the Pi since it's $5 on AliExpress and you can buy it at the same time as the pogo pins probe, which you need. The advantage of the CH347 is that you don't need to fiddle around with the pinout and risk frying the chip if you screw up. You can just plug the probe in (via the level shifter) and you are good to go. Also, if you are doing the Raspberry Pi, you'd still need the level shifter since the Pi is a 3.3 V device.
• MostlyStable 1mo ago
  I apparently have a very uncommon viewpoint on this, given the flavor of the comments. I won't try and say that this situation is totally fine, or ideal, or anything close to it, but I think that in order for us to know how to feel, we need one very important piece of information that is missing: was the actual BIOS update itself bad in some way, or was this just the kind of error that happens sometimes, especially as hardware ages. If it was the former, then this becomes quite bad: Framework released (even if they were not the ones who made it) a software update that bricked someones computer, and it is incumbent upon them to fix it, even out of warranty. If it's the latter, then, I'm sorry, but that's the kind of thing that happens sometimes. Yes, having dual bios chips or some other way to recover from a failed flash would be nice, but I don't know the engineering trade offs to make that happen. Lots of desktop motherboards have it, where space is not at a premium, but do any laptop motherboards have it? My guess is that, at the bare minimum, it's much much less frequent. I think that, in the latter situation, the main thing that I would like to have seen from a company like Framework, with their ethos, is to provide the pogo pin reflashing tool (at a reasonable price), along with the necessary instructions and files, either for the user, or for a local, inexpensive computer repair shop (depending on the users preference). So even in the latter situation, I do think that Frameworks support is lacking here. This seems like the kind of thing that, with the proper tools (which seem cheap) and instructions and files, that this wouldn't actually be that hard, especially for the type of consumer that would buy an upgradeable, modular laptop. But, in the case that the BIOS itself was not bad/caused the bricking, then I think the rhetoric around this is overblown. I'm not sure that any laptop I've ever had before has ever told me that I needed a bios update (aka: provided that level of support post purchase). Again, if the BIOS was in fact bad, and caused the brick (and no, a thread of people who experienced the problem is not enough to conclude this), then that's a very different situation, and the level of failure exceeds even what is described here. And even if it wasn't bad, I don't think think that "buy a new mainboard" is the appropriate service response when "buy these $20 dollars of parts and tools, and follow this guide" would likely have solved the problem. But, as I understand it, BIOS updates are always somewhat dangerous. If Framework is on the hook for every time a BIOS goes bad outside of warranty even in situations where nothing they did directly caused the issue, then what they will do is just stop offering BIOS updates outside the warranty window. We can hold two ideas in our heads at once: Are they completely and perfectly living up to their ideals? I think that the answer here is obviously, even in the least bad case, no they are not. But are they providing better service than other laptop manufacturers? I think that as long as the BIOS file wasn't bad, the answer is yes. No laptop manufacturer would have offered to fix this out of warranty if they even provided continued BIOS updates, and for most manufacturers, their answer would have been "buy an entire new computer", and your only alternative would be third party resellers or used parts on ebay to get a new motherboard. -edit- After doing a bit more research, BIOS recovery paths in laptops, while not universal or as common as in desktops, are also not exactly rare, and not having one, in a company with Frameworks ethos and stance, is worse than I initially assumed. I think that, even if this isn't due to a bad BIOS or updater (which, again, would make them, in my opinion, liable for fixing it), then this is a very significant oversight, and the fact that they don't provide the support necessary to route around it (reasonably priced tools and clear, well written instructions) is even worse.
• wtfrmyinitials 1mo ago
  Anyone else bothered by the author’s constant return to whining about how Framework did not do enough for this specific repair? Each time I found myself thinking “ok, rant over, now on to the interesting technical bits” only for the rant to resume a few paragraphs later.
  • Brian_K_White 1mo ago
    No. I feel it's at least 50% of the story because FW themselves make so much hay about it. They aren't just failing at something, they are failing at the single differentiator that they charge more money for. their one and only selling point and value proposition. It deserves to be laid out and reiterated, and it's the author's choice what they want to talk about, and they want to talk about FW as much as the technical incidentia. If you just want to learn how to flash an isp chip, there are surely countless sources.
• cschep 1mo ago
  The lack of support from Framework is so damning. Nirav has been a fun CEO to watch, but this feels like a huge, huge miss. Can anyone defend this? Why would anyone purchase anything from this company ever again?
  • alt227 1mo ago
    When your laptop dies what would you prefer, to be able to buy the specific broken part easily and replace it yourself or be forced to buy an entire new laptop?
    • cschep 1mo ago
      I expect an optional update to not brick my laptop, and if it does, the company to fully replace it because they own the fact that they fucked up. Completely unrelated: Yes! I do prefer to be able to replace specific broken parts when they die. That sure doesn't apply to this situation though does it?
      • deleted 1mo ago
        [deleted]
      • craftkiller 1mo ago
        > That sure doesn't apply to this situation though does it? It sort-of does. Naturally this situation can be resolved much cheaper with a flasher, but in this situation you absolutely have the option to replace the "broken" motherboard, while still keeping your screen, laptop chassis, battery, ram, SSD, wifi card, expansion cards, sound board, webcam. Another commenter said the board is available on Ebay for $270 which is going to be less than just the ram for a new laptop.
    • quantum5 1mo ago
      But the problem isn't buying the specific broken part here? I would have gladly replaced the BIOS chip if they made it socketed or something, but what Framework support told me is to throw away the perfectly working CPU and buy a new one because it happened to be soldered to the same board as the BIOS chip with incorrect data.
• reedlaw 1mo ago
  I'm on my third mainboard trying to combat what seems to be an AMD platform issue that causes random freeze-then-reset events. It doesn't just affect Framework. If you search AMD Data Fabric Sync Flood you'll find a lot of discussion across various forums. The open Framework issue is: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/SoftwareFirmwareIssueTracker/issues/41 https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/SoftwareFirmwareIssueTr...
  • mchristen 1mo ago
    I keep on having issues with my WD SN850 dropping offline and coming back R/O but it still fails to produce any reads and my system still crashes. I've applied all the pcie power management fixes on the kernel command line and still having problems. That sounds similar to what you describe. It starts off with vscode disappearing, then UI locks, and then it dumps me to a virtual console spitting kernel errors for a bit. The nvme drive itself reports no media errors so I really do think it's a system side problem with the pcie controllers...
• myself248 1mo ago
  I also managed to brick a motherboard, though mine was a Supermicro, by missing a line in the README that tells you to move some hardware jumpers on the board before applying the flash. I found one jumper, but the other one was in another corner of the board, and the README says "if you have both, move both", so I thought I just had a board with only one jumper. Notably, the flash process itself does not check for the positions of the jumpers and exit, or anything like that, it just proceeds merrily along, and renders the board unbootable. I've been around with Flashrom a dozen times and can't figure out the right sequence of flash-this-rerun-that to recover the thing. (It's an X9DR3, if anyone here has hints.) So I wish I could be mad at Framework, but only the tiniest bit. It's sadly common.
  • rincebrain 1mo ago
    My understanding is that you can usually flash the BIOS from the BMC even if the BIOS is fucked, though it's a paid feature upgrade (though I think someone might have cracked the algorithm on older boards). At least, it has been the case on several boards of mine, including an X10SDV which bricked itself, as far as I can tell, just from bad luck somehow.
    • myself248 1mo ago
      I tried the BMC route, it didn't help. As far as I can tell, the jumper dance was to enable the main BIOS to use the Management Engine controller to perform some other part of the flash, which would ordinarily be locked out with the jumpers in their normal position. But now that it's tried and failed, it won't try again, maybe?
• amstan 1mo ago
  > Framework chose to not provide a header for flashing the BIOS, which, when combined with issue #3, forced the use of pogo pins. Op probably missed https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/FrameworkDebugger#jspi. Though, the connector is not populated for cost reasons. Otherwise, I agree with the author, this is a pain.
  • quantum5 1mo ago
    Original author here: Thanks for linking the documentation! To be clear, when I wrote "header", I meant something with a connector that can be easily used for this purpose. Soldering on the connector is probably more difficult than the pogo pins that I used. I also can't help but notice the linked connector is less than $1 in bulk on DigiKey and probably cheaper if ordered at Framework's scale.
    • margalabargala 1mo ago
      Sure, but this is just one issue. How many potential $0.78 connectors exist? If one in 1000 customers has a need for a connector, and there are 40 different potential failure modes where a $0.78 connector would make recovery easier, is that worth the extra $30 per laptop?
      • quantum5 1mo ago
        I checked the pictures of my board, and there are 3 unpopulated headers that I can see. There's also the unpopulated BIOS chip socket, which is similarly cheap. I think I would pay the extra $3 per laptop for better repairability, which is Framework's entire sales pitch anyway.
        • opello 1mo ago
          Moving to sockets adds risk of the socket failing too. But this particular instance of not using an SOIC-8, for which test clips are readily available, seems pretty unfriendly. I imagine there's a way to program the flash from a header or connector, or maybe it was programmed before being assembled onto the PCB.
• tristor 1mo ago
  I've had some rough moments with my Framework 13, but overall I appreciate it because when something like this happens you have a way out other than binning the entire laptop. I agree with the author that Framework should have a better answer than buying a new motherboard, /but/ at least you can buy a new motherboard and move all the components over. Realistically, any >$1000 computing device should have the ability to boot BIOS from USB to provide a fallback if the BIOS is damaged, this is pretty standard on most high-end motherboards, and I think its a fair expectation from Framework. Hopefully they will see this thread on HN and make changes to the product in the future to improve this.
• beej71 1mo ago
  Disappointing to read. I think I'll just keep buying used laptops and throwing Linux on them.
• dvdkon 1mo ago
  It's a shame Framework don't offer support for component-level repairs, but sadly neither do other laptop manufacturers, if you don't count leaked resources. They could certainly do better, but I wouldn't see it as a reason to switch to e.g. ThinkPads.
• Taikhoom10 1mo ago
  [flagged]
• lo_fye 1mo ago
  $20 of tools, and a lifetime of skills. In this case, cheap has quite a few prerequisites.
• bityard 1mo ago
  The non-zero chance of a BIOS update bricking my computer is why I NEVER do them to a machine that's out of warranty, unless I'm experiencing some problem that a BIOS update is _well documented_ to actually fix.
• opello 1mo ago
  While the author didn't go this route, I've wondered for a while if the angled style WSON-8 clips worked: https://www.printables.com/model/89693-wson-8-program-clips https://www.printables.com/model/89693-wson-8-program-clips
• eigenform 1mo ago
  So did anyone actually figure out what the issue was?
• jawwer9 1mo ago
  [dead]
• doodlebugging 1mo ago
  Thanks for posting this. IT comes along at a perfect time for me. I am investigating linux laptops for one of my children, still in college. I have been looking for machines that come out of the box with linux and Framework was up there on the list. Others include Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, and Tuxedo. I like the apparent upgrade ease of the Framework since I have a pile of old laptops, tablets and netbooks dating to late 1990's already. If I can find one that is long-term upgradable then that is a big plus. I had almost convinced myself that Framework is the way to go with their hot-swappable ports and easily replaced internals. I found Tuxedo not long ago. They seem to be a valid competitor in that space. I know they're a German company but I think they ship to the boondocks in Texas. I read that BIOS recovery procedure and was reminded of all the times I had to flash and then recover on desktops or laptops and how much fun it wasn't. The fact that Framework treats you like a second-class citizen after the warranty expires is very valuable information in a case where your problem is caused by their recommended procedure. The hack of their partner company feels so relevant today when companies can still leave PII open in public datasets and suffer no consequences. I will more strongly consider Dell and Tuxedo. I have long experience with Dell workstations and have found that even though a lot of their components like Mobos are proprietary formats requiring a Dell part to repair, that those parts are identifiable and generally available thru Dell or eBay. I don't know enough about Tuxedo so if anyone has experience I would appreciate some insight. The use case for us is typical document authoring, programming in python with maybe Jupyter notebooks, complicated spreadsheets, photo documentation of field sites, and GIS work maintaining project map resources using ArcGIS most likely. Gaming is probably another option but it is not necessary for it to run top games though it does need decent graphics.
• colingauvin 1mo ago
  I pre-ordered the very first Framework 13. I was so excited that I loaned it to Level1Techs to make a video of it, and at one point early on it also failed - everyone I communicated with had their name printed on that motherboard, all the way up to the CEO. I was hugely disappointed when the CMOS battery completely died and the only solutions were: "Don't leave it unplugged or put in a new battery every n months". (Btw the battery holder was a very fragile piece of plastic). I also pre-ordered the Framework 16 willing to give them the benefit of the doubt - growing company, first product, etc. In general I like Framework, but this is unacceptable. Get your act together. My standard for repairable is Schiit Audio. I've had 3-4 things from them (out of like 12 I own) die in various ways, some their faults, some mine. In every instance, I've sent it back to them, and received the same unit back a few weeks later with a new component of whatever failed. Sometimes at my cost, sometimes at theirs. And they do everything in the US too - I'm shipping it to Texas and they are employing someone in Texas to solder on new parts. Get your act together Framework. This is against the spirit of your mission. No one cares about warranty periods. Buy a new board should be an absolute last resort.
• dheatov 1mo ago
  Now we fully understand the sustainable business model of Framework.
• queSide 1mo ago
  Great write up. This is a frustrating issue and I would have expected Framework to better. Most people can't flash a BIOS chip, they would be up a creek. Even as someone who writes software, flashing a BIOS chip would be outside of the realm of things I'm comfortable doing. Only semi related but I would like to give MSI credit here, a few years ago I was dealing with a bad graphics card and as part of diagnosing it I tried to update the BIOS. I botched it and bricked the mobo (which to be fair was under warranty so a different case to this). I called MSI and RMA'd the motherboard even though it was my fault. Still using the replacement Z-97 PC mate today.
• rldjbpin 1mo ago
  good writeup. a similar approached once saved my bacon when my laptop got bricked during the covid supply chain fiasco. the programmer, especially with crocodile clips, can be used for other laptops with bios chips of the size. however, it is always nice to have info from someone else who has previously done this. while it took a lot of digging for the specific laptop i had, at least with framework we hope to see more high-quality writeup like this.
• nubinetwork 1mo ago
  > there was no recovery mechanism short of externally programming the BIOS chip. This was shocking on a product advertised as “repairable.” Sounds pretty repairable to me, sorry that you're not used to using a chip flasher.
• ovin_dal 1mo ago
  Spending $20 and a few hours to save a whole mainboard is a win. Posts like this are why right to repair actually works in practice.
• Sweepi 22d ago
  Update[20260828]: Framework made this statement(unfortunately only to the press, not on their website): We've received reports of a small percentage of Framework Laptop 13 7040 Series BIOS updates resulting in non-bootable boards and are investigating the root cause of the issue. In the meantime, in addition to replacing in-warranty Mainboards, we are making exceptions for out-of-warranty replacements where we can confirm a stable-release BIOS update caused the board to become non-bootable. In parallel to this, we're introducing "Crisis Recovery Mode" BIOS functionality to enable a path for failed updates to be directly recoverable. Our latest Framework Desktop BIOS release includes this functionality, and we are actively bringing it to Framework Laptop 12, 13, and 16 in our upcoming BIOS