6 ms·

How do you get email addresses? Do people freely and explicitly choose to sign up to your mailing list, or is it baggage that you're forcing on them without the

by Youden 5mo ago

How do you get email addresses? Do people freely and explicitly choose to sign up to your mailing list, or is it baggage that you're forcing on them without their consent? I notice that when I go to https://fontawesome.com/ https://fontawesome.com/ and click "Start for Free", I'm asked for my email address. This isn't necessary for me to use the icons. I just need a page that tells me to add the necessary tags for cdnjs [0]. I think your problem is dissonance between what you think your users want and what they actually want. If I had to sign up for a mailing list in order to use every frontend development library I've ever used, and their emails actually made it past my spam filter, I'd never see anything else. I think Google's doing the right thing here. You need to separate your newsletter and product updates from people who just want to set up the icons and move on with their lives. [0]: https://cdnjs.com/libraries/font-awesome https://cdnjs.com/libraries/font-awesome

kodebach 5mo ago
It's actually worse. I just signed up with a dummy email and the page says they need your email to create an account so, they can store the icon kits you've created. That kinda makes sense. But at no point do they ask you whether you want to subscribe to any form of newsletter. AFAICT not even the privacy policy mentions anything about that. You're just subscribed automatically. So by definition anything not crucial for creating the account is literal spam. I'm not even sure that's legal under GDPR. But the thing that might actually be killing their reputation is that their mails seemingly come from different emails all looking like bounces+18741050-ecba-jopudmulwqqsumjwub=nespj.com@email.fontawesome.com. But even worse than that, the "confirm your email" email and the following "finish account setup" email came from two different sub-domains. Maybe this is just a new attempt to get around Google's spam filter, but it seems like the worst thing you could possibly do when sending emails.
- cube00 5mo ago
  > But even worse than that, the "confirm your email" email and the following "finish account setup" email came from two different sub-domains. Maybe this is just a new attempt to get around Google's spam filter, but it seems like the worst thing you could possibly do when sending emails. Standard advice is to use one subdomain for "transaction" email (verification, invoices) and another for marketing https://www.twilio.com/docs/sendgrid/onboarding/email-api/evaluate-and-plan-your-strategy https://www.twilio.com/docs/sendgrid/onboarding/email-api/ev...
  - ectospheno 5mo ago
    That is standard practice because you will need to cycle that marketing domain until the end of time as its email reputation sinks into the abyss. Because people don’t want spam.
    - projektfu 5mo ago
      It's good practice because sometimes I don't feel like hitting the Spam button but I still want to black-hole the marketing e-mails. If you are also sending transaction e-mails through that address, then I have to decide whether to bother keeping you as a sender.
itopaloglu83 5mo ago
I don’t know if this is true with Font Awesome, but more and more companies are spamming my inbox despite disabling any promotional emails in their settings. So, I mark any unwanted email as spam in Gmail immediately, and even leave bad reviews. Having my email address is not the same as having my consent. Stop trying to roofie us with malicious EULAs.
- Larrikin 5mo ago
  I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will never fix it and doesn't care if you get some more spam after you unsubscribe since he has done the bare minimum. If I get a single email after I've unsubscribed I go back in my inbox and mark every single email I ever received as spam.
  - achandlerwhite 5mo ago
    It’s because transactional email and marketing email are two different systems.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - hsbauauvhabzb 5mo ago
      Sounds like an engineering problem that can be solved, and, more importantly, not my fucking problem.
    - nkrisc 5mo ago
      As the end user: not my problem, I don’t care, I don’t need the implementation details. I only care about what I see.
    - 5mo ago
amluto 5mo ago
Fun quote from the OP: > But here’s the part that really gets us. At our CORE, our instinct is to only email folks when we actually have something fun to share. A big release, something we’re excited about, news worth your time. I would prefer not to give my email address to a company that thinks that this should give them a good email reputation. If you email me because you are excited and I’m not, I probably think of it as spam.
- bombcar 5mo ago
  Every single spam email ever sent is from someone who has “something fun to share” that they’re “excited about”. If that’s really what you’re doing, show the open/click rates well above 80%.
- RHSeeger 5mo ago
  I don't mind if a company sends me emails if I gave them my email address. As long as, when I click "unsubscribe" to the email, they stop. I don't want to have to go log back into their system and unsubscribe. I just want to click the unsubscribe button and have it be done - forever, not just until they add a new category for email. I have a fair number of companies that send me emails (because I signed up for their service) on a "slow" basis (ie, when they have something interesting.. not just "every week, so you don't forget us). I don't mind those. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. I don't unsubscribe and I don't mark them as spam. I'm not saying you should be the same as me. I _am_ saying that, just because _you_ don't like it, doesn't make them "clearly in the wrong". Because there are people that feel like the way they are acting is reasonable.
  - Ferret7446 5mo ago
    I kinda don't mind period, since I just mark them as spam. As OP is finding out though they're in denial
  - rationalist 5mo ago
    > log back into their system and unsubscribe FYI, requiring logging in to unsubscribe is a violation of the CAN-SPAM Act in the U.S., I just mark those as spam if they don't allow one-click unsubscribes.
direwolf20 5mo ago
And I would definitely mark these emails as spam. When a company sends me emails I don't want, I mark them as spam. I don't care about the technical rules or if you tricked me into wherein. If it's unwanted non-transactional email, it's spam and you deserve to be kicked off the global email network. You may think you're sending only one email a week so you're fine. Cool, well my inbox gets one "technically compliant" spam email per hour and you have equal responsibility to all the rest of them.
RobotToaster 5mo ago
So many of these "freemium" things will spam you relentlessly asking you to upgrade. This one doesn't have the best history either, although it's officially open source, at least at one point the build system was private[0]. I've not kept up with the drama, so I have no idea if that is still the case. [0] https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font-Awesome/issues/12199#issuecomment-362919956 https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font-Awesome/issues/12199#iss...
iririririr 5mo ago
[dead]
wilg 5mo ago
> This isn't necessary for me to use the icons. True, but all the information about non-kit deployments is available lower on the page.
- stavros 5mo ago
  Yeah but that doesn't matter. The misdirection about needing the email address to download is working as intended, getting unwilling subscribers who then mark you as spam when they see your emails, and you get blackholed. The solution isn't a legalese CYA "but there's an alternative", it's to only sign up people who want to hear from you.
thinkingtoilet 5mo ago
I no longer even unsubscribe when I get an unsolicited email. I intentionally stay subscribed but mark everything as spam. My hope is if people start doing this there will be more and more instances like this post, which is a good thing. Stop emailing me. Stop opting me in. And stop pretending like you're doing it for my benefit.

by Youden 5mo ago

kodebach 5mo ago

It's actually worse. I just signed up with a dummy email and the page says they need your email to create an account so, they can store the icon kits you've created. That kinda makes sense. But at no point do they ask you whether you want to subscribe to any form of newsletter. AFAICT not even the privacy policy mentions anything about that. You're just subscribed automatically. So by definition anything not crucial for creating the account is literal spam. I'm not even sure that's legal under GDPR. But the thing that might actually be killing their reputation is that their mails seemingly come from different emails all looking like bounces+18741050-ecba-jopudmulwqqsumjwub=nespj.com@email.fontawesome.com. But even worse than that, the "confirm your email" email and the following "finish account setup" email came from two different sub-domains. Maybe this is just a new attempt to get around Google's spam filter, but it seems like the worst thing you could possibly do when sending emails.

cube00 5mo ago
> But even worse than that, the "confirm your email" email and the following "finish account setup" email came from two different sub-domains. Maybe this is just a new attempt to get around Google's spam filter, but it seems like the worst thing you could possibly do when sending emails. Standard advice is to use one subdomain for "transaction" email (verification, invoices) and another for marketing https://www.twilio.com/docs/sendgrid/onboarding/email-api/evaluate-and-plan-your-strategy https://www.twilio.com/docs/sendgrid/onboarding/email-api/ev...
- ectospheno 5mo ago
  That is standard practice because you will need to cycle that marketing domain until the end of time as its email reputation sinks into the abyss. Because people don’t want spam.
  - projektfu 5mo ago
    It's good practice because sometimes I don't feel like hitting the Spam button but I still want to black-hole the marketing e-mails. If you are also sending transaction e-mails through that address, then I have to decide whether to bother keeping you as a sender.

itopaloglu83 5mo ago

I don’t know if this is true with Font Awesome, but more and more companies are spamming my inbox despite disabling any promotional emails in their settings. So, I mark any unwanted email as spam in Gmail immediately, and even leave bad reviews. Having my email address is not the same as having my consent. Stop trying to roofie us with malicious EULAs.

Larrikin 5mo ago
I remember there was a thread some years back with an article complaining that you get emails immediately on sign up, but that it can take up to 10 days to stop receiving emails when you unsubscribe. One spammer said they could use the same servers for both but when you unsubscribe you have immediately signaled that you are now losing him money. So he uses the slowest cheapest part of the stack for removal. He will never fix it and doesn't care if you get some more spam after you unsubscribe since he has done the bare minimum. If I get a single email after I've unsubscribed I go back in my inbox and mark every single email I ever received as spam.
- achandlerwhite 5mo ago
  It’s because transactional email and marketing email are two different systems.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - hsbauauvhabzb 5mo ago
    Sounds like an engineering problem that can be solved, and, more importantly, not my fucking problem.
  - nkrisc 5mo ago
    As the end user: not my problem, I don’t care, I don’t need the implementation details. I only care about what I see.
  - 5mo ago

amluto 5mo ago

Fun quote from the OP: > But here’s the part that really gets us. At our CORE, our instinct is to only email folks when we actually have something fun to share. A big release, something we’re excited about, news worth your time. I would prefer not to give my email address to a company that thinks that this should give them a good email reputation. If you email me because you are excited and I’m not, I probably think of it as spam.

bombcar 5mo ago
Every single spam email ever sent is from someone who has “something fun to share” that they’re “excited about”. If that’s really what you’re doing, show the open/click rates well above 80%.
RHSeeger 5mo ago
I don't mind if a company sends me emails if I gave them my email address. As long as, when I click "unsubscribe" to the email, they stop. I don't want to have to go log back into their system and unsubscribe. I just want to click the unsubscribe button and have it be done - forever, not just until they add a new category for email. I have a fair number of companies that send me emails (because I signed up for their service) on a "slow" basis (ie, when they have something interesting.. not just "every week, so you don't forget us). I don't mind those. Sometimes I read them, sometimes I don't. I don't unsubscribe and I don't mark them as spam. I'm not saying you should be the same as me. I _am_ saying that, just because _you_ don't like it, doesn't make them "clearly in the wrong". Because there are people that feel like the way they are acting is reasonable.
- Ferret7446 5mo ago
  I kinda don't mind period, since I just mark them as spam. As OP is finding out though they're in denial
- rationalist 5mo ago
  > log back into their system and unsubscribe FYI, requiring logging in to unsubscribe is a violation of the CAN-SPAM Act in the U.S., I just mark those as spam if they don't allow one-click unsubscribes.

direwolf20 5mo ago

And I would definitely mark these emails as spam. When a company sends me emails I don't want, I mark them as spam. I don't care about the technical rules or if you tricked me into wherein. If it's unwanted non-transactional email, it's spam and you deserve to be kicked off the global email network. You may think you're sending only one email a week so you're fine. Cool, well my inbox gets one "technically compliant" spam email per hour and you have equal responsibility to all the rest of them.

RobotToaster 5mo ago

So many of these "freemium" things will spam you relentlessly asking you to upgrade. This one doesn't have the best history either, although it's officially open source, at least at one point the build system was private[0]. I've not kept up with the drama, so I have no idea if that is still the case. [0] https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font-Awesome/issues/12199#issuecomment-362919956 https://github.com/FortAwesome/Font-Awesome/issues/12199#iss...

iririririr 5mo ago

[dead]

wilg 5mo ago

> This isn't necessary for me to use the icons. True, but all the information about non-kit deployments is available lower on the page.

stavros 5mo ago
Yeah but that doesn't matter. The misdirection about needing the email address to download is working as intended, getting unwilling subscribers who then mark you as spam when they see your emails, and you get blackholed. The solution isn't a legalese CYA "but there's an alternative", it's to only sign up people who want to hear from you.

thinkingtoilet 5mo ago

I no longer even unsubscribe when I get an unsolicited email. I intentionally stay subscribed but mark everything as spam. My hope is if people start doing this there will be more and more instances like this post, which is a good thing. Stop emailing me. Stop opting me in. And stop pretending like you're doing it for my benefit.