18 ms·

I Want You to Understand Chicago

• deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
• don_neufeld 10mo ago
  I’m so glad that Kyle wrote this. I’m so sad that he had to. Pay attention to what’s going on and vote.
  • ryandrake 10mo ago
    The problem is how many people enthusiastically voted for this madness, lawlessness and cruelty, and are still cheering it on. You can say "vote, vote, vote," and maybe it will work in 2026 or 2028, or 2030 or whenever, but the root problem is not going away: you are still surrounded by people all over the country who want this.
    • turnsout 10mo ago
      I don't know, man. That is definitely true, but they didn't win by a landslide. And a lot of their edge came from the MAGA Latinx vote. This ICE/CPB action is a total self-own. That Latinx vote is going to disappear, and we've already seen the results in the 2025 elections. I think the right will turn on itself in 2026. We could even end up with three parties, only one of them able to obtain a majority (Democrats). There's a plausible version of the future where the Republican Party goes the way of the Whigs.
      • ryandrake 10mo ago
        > I think the right will turn on itself in 2026. If they turn on themselves it will not be over immigration. This is the one issue where they are almost all in wild agreement. A massive, overwhelming majority of Republicans agree with these cruel treatment of immigrants[1]. They might disagree on the economy or tariffs or jobs or whatever, but there's no infighting here. They fully back this cruelty. 1: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/07/what-americans-think-about-trumps-immigration-actions-early-in-his-second-term/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/07/what-amer...
        • turnsout 10mo ago
          No, you're right—I don't think it will be over immigration. I think they'll lose in 2026 and tear themselves apart infighting about who's to blame.
          • UncleMeat 10mo ago
            Losing in 2026 barely matters. Existing dem leadership has no desire to end the filibuster, which means we get one bill a year that is full of technocratic approaches. The Trump administration, backed by the supreme court, is accruing more and more power to simply ignore the will of Congress. Even if the dems get some guts and defund ICE, the Trump administration has already demonstrated that it is happy to just illegally distribute or withhold funds wherever it likes. The only way out of this is replacing dem leadership in congress with people who give a shit, winning the presidency in 2028, killing the filibuster, and then going on a serious denazification effort to restructure our institutions so that this sort of shit can't happen. Court packing. Total dismantling and rebuilding of federal law enforcement. Recreating a functional congress.
            • turnsout 10mo ago
              I agree, but that’s not far off from simply dissolving the country and starting over under a new name. Maybe that’s the way forward.
        • techblueberry 10mo ago
          The biggest division right now seems to be support Israel. And if we up the attacks in Venezuela, I do think the America first folks will get louder in their divisions. https://www.thefp.com/p/the-rights-existential-fight-over https://www.thefp.com/p/the-rights-existential-fight-over
      • UncleMeat 10mo ago
        There is no way that the republicans split. They are 100% captured by MAGA. The only possible splitting point is with the Fuentes wing, who'd just like to murder all the jews in the country in addition to all of the latinos.
    • WillEngler 10mo ago
      There are some who voted for Trump and do celebrate the cruelty on display in Chicago. But I also think many wanted to deport "the worst of the worst" and that is what they thought they were promised. And per the media many consume, that is what's happening. It's an open question on whether the real extent of the crackdown will break through the echo chamber, but from conversations I've had with people who consume Fox News, I really do think a lot of Trump voters will not be ok with the tactics as they are actually being carried out. For example, I just don't think that earnest religious conservatives I know would defend denying the Eucharist to people in the processing facility (https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/02/faith-leaders-again-denied-entry-to-broadview-ice-facility-hold-mass-outside-anyway/ https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/02/faith-leaders-again-...) and then banning prayer outside the facility altogether (https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/07/feds-tell-faith-leaders-no-more-prayer-outside-broadview-facility/ https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/07/feds-tell-faith-lead...). When you lay out this (and the many events in Aphyr's post) to them clearly, they really don't like it.
    • toomuchtodo 10mo ago
      Margin of victory was ~2M votes, about how many voters 55+ die in a year. Hopefully enough voters have aged out or learned their lesson next time around (considering election results we've seen in the last week or so [1]). You're never going to convince unsavory voters to vote with empathy, the subject brain structure does not support it (anterior insular cortex, primarily), you can only hope they're aging out of the electorate at a reasonable pace (and not being replaced). "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." (Planck's Principle [2] applied to voting) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45818505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45818505 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle
      • saulpw 10mo ago
        The replacement voters are currently teenagers. They haven't "learned their lesson", they aren't old enough to have experienced politics at all. They were 6 years old when Trump was elected the first time. This is their reality and we can't expect that the electorate gets more sensible because old people rotate out.
        • toomuchtodo 10mo ago
          https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker https://www.newsweek.com/trump-support-among-men-eroding-10895664 https://www.newsweek.com/trump-support-among-men-eroding-108... https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-absolutely-craters-young-voters-161346893.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-absolutely-craters... Young women are also most liberal than ever, and who carried recent election wins. I expect this trend to continue. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gallup-analysis-finds-young-women-are-more-liberal-than-theyve-been-in-decades https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gallup-analysis-finds-yo... https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men... https://msmagazine.com/2025/11/03/2025-election-results/ https://msmagazine.com/2025/11/03/2025-election-results/
    • ssl-3 10mo ago
      We must always vote. Our voter turnout for elections in the US is approximately shit. We must also do other things, too: Voting isn't the end-all, be-all solution to everything. (And that's OK; we can do more than one thing at a time.) But the absolute necessity of actually-voting is a constant, and I'm equipped with a profound amount of intolerance towards any idea that may suggest otherwise.
      • throwaway173738 10mo ago
        Yeah, the people who suggest voting doesn’t matter are either suffering from some nihilistic delusion or they’re spreading a self-serving lie.
        • atmavatar 10mo ago
          Or, they live in one of the 40-something states where the election margins are large enough that it doesn't matter whether they vote. My state hasn't voted Democrat since 1964. The only two elections with less than a 10-point spread since then were in 1976 (7.5% spread) and 1992 (5% spread due to Perot stealing votes from Bush Sr.). I moved to this state in 1993.
          • throwaway173738 10mo ago
            Local government and utility commissioners are very important too.
          • ssl-3 10mo ago
            I have three general questions: --- 1. So it's about odds? By what mechanism do you think that refusing to vote will improve your favored diminutive party's odds in your state? --- 2. Or maybe it's about cost, instead? What does it cost to vote in your state? How much time, and how much money, does a voter need to put forth in order to cast a vote in [wherever you are]? --- 3. Are you a masochist? (Are you sure about that?)
        • gishh 10mo ago
          Hmm. Possibly. I predict that California will “go blue” in the presidential elections for at least the rest of my lifetime. Someone who “votes red” in California can say that their vote doesn’t matter, and a reasonable person would understand why they feel that way. You don’t seem like a reasonable person, or you’re also suffering from some nihilistic delusion, possibly.
    • skopje 10mo ago
      Half the US cheers about this. I hope we do not get a world war to stop it.
    • tptacek 10mo ago
      I don't think this framing is very helpful. Whatever you believe about the people who pulled the lever for Trump, which included an unprecedented number of Latino and Black voters, they exist, and they're not persuaded by your disapproval. I think a really big problem we have on my side of the aisle is the belief that there's a celestial referee who will call offsides on the Republicans if we can just find the right argument at the right amplitude. What led into our current circumstances was several years of uncontrolled, chaotic immigration, caused in large part by specific articulable decisions Biden's administration made. People felt like the situation had gotten out of control, and they weren't wrong. Every day I'd commute into my office and pass multiple corners and Ike off-ramps(!) staffed by a woman and several of her tiny children, out in the cold, trying to sell bottles of water. My reaction to that wasn't "deport them". I'm a liberal Democrat. But we're kidding ourselves if we think a natural reaction to that situation was "this is fine". The election was fully determined by inflation. Biden made a reasonable (though incorrect) bet that full employment was more important than price stability. It was not: people fucking hate inflation. By a large factor inflation was the most important issue in the 2024 election. But the second-most important issue was immigration (like it has been throughout Europe over the past 10 years) and then after that the issues sharply trail off in importance.
      • jonway 10mo ago
        Could you please qualify both: the several years of chaotic annd uncontrolled immigration as well as Biden betting on employment vs inflation with the policies that you are referencing? For example, while I’m aware that the Biden admin ended title 42, it had only been policy for a few years, ending this policy simply removes us to the Obama era. Although I certainly don’t intend to strawman what you are saying, Obama immigration certainly wasn’t chaotic and uncontrolled. These statements don’t comport with my reading of the facts, as well as inflation, since I understand this to be a global phenomenon. I am genuinely interested
      • keeda 10mo ago
        > The election was fully determined by inflation. Biden made a reasonable (though incorrect) bet that full employment was more important than price stability. There is credible theory (shared by a very balanced labor economist I follow) that the immigration crisis helped tame the inflation crisis, besides boosting the economy enough for a soft landing: https://fortune.com/2024/04/12/immigration-inflation-economy-election-labor-market/ https://fortune.com/2024/04/12/immigration-inflation-economy... Also some studies for and against this theory: - https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2025/01/10/Immigration-and-Local-Inflation-560285 https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2025/01/10/Imm... (Finds inflation lowered.) - https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2025/0708 https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2025/0708 (No effect on inflation, but yes on GPD growth.) Now, I'm not saying this was always Biden's plan, but the economics are not as straightforward as "employments vs inflation."
    • UncleMeat 10mo ago
      Right. The plan to defeat fascism can't be "never lose a single election ever for the rest of time." Political leaders did absolutely fuck all to consign Trump to the garbage bin of history in 2021 and now we've got a fascist president motivated entirely by two things: hurting as many people he hates as possible and putting up tacky gold shit in the white house.
  • alangibson 10mo ago
    Voting is what got us in to this. This is supported by a majority of the US. You do not live in the country you think you do.
    • daseiner1 10mo ago
      Yup immigration was arguably the concrete issue of the election and these were the campaign promises. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knew that this is what mass deportation would look like.
      • metabagel 10mo ago
        We already had mass deportation under Biden, and it wasn’t conducted in this manner.
    • HeinzStuckeIt 10mo ago
      > This is supported by a majority of the US. The election was fairly close. The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts. All that said, as an American living abroad who votes left, the use of terms like “kidnapped” and “abducted” to describe immigration-enforcement actions seems really weird to me and my expat peers. There are quite a few democratic, developed countries high on freedom-ranking lists that widely deploy law enforcement to arrest and deport undocumented immigrants and visa overstayers. Sure, deplore lack of due process when actual citizens get caught in the net, but so much use of these loaded terms isn’t even about that, it’s criticizing actions against non-citizens.
      • ryandrake 10mo ago
        > The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts. There may be differing views on other topics among the party, but Republicans broadly support this vision of cruelty and these actions against immigrants[1] by huge margins. It's probably the one single vision they are united behind. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45859760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45859760
• Moveable_Type 10mo ago
  can't access due to UK online safety act
  • pekim 10mo ago
    I'm in the UK too. So I read the article courtesy of archive.is. https://archive.is/X33oQ https://archive.is/X33oQ
  • hexbin010 10mo ago
    Well, technically, it's likely because he has decided to block UK IPs (or similar). A form of protest I assume, assuming he runs no business in the UK and no other reason to think the UK Gov has any interest in policing an .com blog run by someone who doesn't live there nor hosts the website there. (I'm not against that form of protest per se, but let's be clear about who's doing the blocking)
    • davorak 10mo ago
      > A form of protest I assume, Or to avoid the fines and/or to avoid integrating some age verification service. Maybe symbolic since it unlikely the site would be prosecuted, even if they were in violation in some minor form. It is easy to be in violation to my understanding since it does not need to what is posted by the site owner as part of the blog but could be in the comments.
    • kasey_junk 10mo ago
      His rationale is here https://aphyr.com/posts/395-geoblocking-multiple-localities-with-nginx https://aphyr.com/posts/395-geoblocking-multiple-localities-... His website links to bdsm (and hosts some very mild art). He has very real concerns and has talked to lawyers about them. I would not call it a protest rather a protective measure.
      • hexbin010 10mo ago
        Thanks for the context. It still very much reads like activism however, rather than protecting themselves from a real and possible threat regarding aphyr.com. I wonder if he has consulted with lawyers and authorities from all other 193 countries in the world regarding their laws?
• blindriver 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  • alangibson 10mo ago
    Citation needed
    • blindriver 10mo ago
      If you don't understand how critically violent Chicago is, especially in the number of Black people shot and murdered every week, then you have no business being engaged in this topic. Chicago is one of the most violent cities in the US.
      • alangibson 10mo ago
        Well then you should have no problem proving what you are now only insisting on. This is HN, not Reddit. Where's the citation? Prove what you said or I have no reason to take you seriously.
        • blindriver 10mo ago
          https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/2025-Year-to-Date-Heat-Map/d7m6-6q3n https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/2025-Year-to-Da... 1646 shooting victims in chicago over 40 weeks = 36 shooting victims per week. Although these are cases so there are probably multiple victims in many cases. If you go back 10 years, there are around 34,000 cases of gunshot victims. https://abcnews.go.com/US/58-shot-weekend-chicago-governor-rejects-trumps-threat/story?id=125134744 https://abcnews.go.com/US/58-shot-weekend-chicago-governor-r... https://cwbchicago.com/2025/11/two-killed-21-wounded-in-halloween-weekend-shootings-across-chicago.html https://cwbchicago.com/2025/11/two-killed-21-wounded-in-hall...
          • deleted 10mo ago
            [deleted]
          • deleted 10mo ago
• pizlonator 10mo ago
  This is really sad to read! Can folks who live in Chicago confirm/deny/comment on the extent to which this article gets it right? (I have no reason to believe that it's an exaggeration, but I sincerely hope that it is.)
  • miltonlost 10mo ago
    Did you look at the links he posted? Have you seen the news reports he linked to? This is all actually happening right now. Please, read all he linked to an watched the videos of ICE kidnapping people violently. https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/11/05/daycare-teacher-taken-by-ice-north-side-immigration https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/11/05/daycare-...
    • pizlonator 10mo ago
      I think my question had exactly the effect I wanted: lots of folks chiming in to give color. Of course I’ll read all the links! I’ve already read a lot about this! But the first hand commentary from fellow hackers is pure gold IMO
  • turnsout 10mo ago
    It's not an exaggeration. People have been kidnapped by these armed masked idiots within two blocks of my house twice, and those are just the closest cases I know about. Go check out the /r/Illinois subreddit [0] to see what's happening. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/ https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/
    • turnsout 10mo ago
      And of course now the parent post is "flagged." Thank you, Libertarian overlords, from protecting the tech community from this dangerous content.
      • SlightlyLeftPad 10mo ago
        I gotchu fam, I’m snapping Full page screenshots of all the commentary here.
• carterschonwald 10mo ago
  This shit is so fucked up. And at a certain level I’m disappointed that we are still trying to fix it peaceably when every day of delay, there is irreparable harm to physical wellness, mental health and rights as citizens or residents. Also science in America is fucked for the next decade.
  • galangalalgol 10mo ago
    Violent resolution of the situation would almost certainly result in a society with even fewer freedoms. That is the historical lesson. Violent resistance to authoritarian takeovers gives them an air of legitimacy they need. That is the whole point of chicago and the attempt in Portland. They want violent resistance to justify crack downs. Instead they look like storm troopers. I am in awe of the restraint of those living in Chicago. Ice hasn't done half as much in Texas and they are getting ambushed with assault rifles. That doesn't work with their narrative of lawless blue states though. The ability of Chicagoans to resist peacefully, endure, and document these events may well be what gives the US another chance at being a democracy.
    • jeffrallen 10mo ago
      Republicans are controlled by big business and billionaires. I agree that violence isn't the solution, because to these guys, money talks. What we need is a general strike. Shut the entire country down, teachers, warehouse workers, supermarket employees truckers. Everyone on the streets, refusing to make money for their billionaire bosses. When it hurts their profits, they will relent.
      • staticautomatic 10mo ago
        That has never worked well in America.
    • tastyface 10mo ago
      I do not advocate violence, but I do often think back to this quote: "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If... if... We didn’t love freedom enough." --Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
• thechao 10mo ago
  A large part of this lawlessness is rooted in nonnormative behavior. But! there are basic protections we could have right now if we demanded them. First and foremost: the Bivens Act; specifically, the right to bring suit in State court against Federal agents. Presidential pardons can't help these thugs in State persons.
  • tedivm 10mo ago
    Until the supreme court overturns that.
    • tanjtanjtanj 10mo ago
      They already did, more or less. The supreme court ruled that unless your case is virtually a carbon-copy of an existing Bivens case then it doesn't count. The current supreme court does not respect precedent in any meaningful way.
    • thechao 10mo ago
      Bivens act, not case. The act modifies the statutes. It's been read but not voted on. https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3343 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/334...
  • georgemcbay 10mo ago
    Unfortunately the Bivens act was already heavily neutered well before this current trainwreck of a Supreme Court we have now was fully assembled (saving them the trouble of having to neuter it themselves): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fktQUIkf6o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fktQUIkf6o0
  • armada651 10mo ago
    Don't they all have qualified immunity nowadays?
    • mystraline 10mo ago
      [flagged]
• cgag 10mo ago
  A plumber working on my pipes is upset, his wages are suppressed by competition from illegals getting paid under the table, while his rent has skyrocketed, and his taxes are paying for his illegal competitors food and rent and healthcare.
  • miltonlost 10mo ago
    tell your plumber he's an idiot because his taxes are not paying for that, and his rent is not skyrocketing because of "illegals" (other than the illegal collusion of rental prices via price algorithm fixing).
    • lurk2 10mo ago
      > and his rent is not skyrocketing because of "illegals" Why is it skyrocketing?
  • celsoazevedo 10mo ago
    I'm not from the US, so forgive me for what is probably a dumb question, but how is an illegal receiving money for food, rent, and healthcare? Don't you need documents (aka be legal in the country) for that?
    • itsoktocry 10mo ago
      In many instances, no. And that's where a lot of the anger and blow back stems from.
      • miltonlost 10mo ago
        [flagged]
      • celsoazevedo 10mo ago
        It would be interesting to see how that works. Even here in Europe where we usually have a strong(er) social net, the state wouldn't give me a benefit without going through a process requiring documents to prove who I am, my nationality, etc. There are food banks and stuff like that, but that's usually from charities.
• Marshferm 10mo ago
  How can this be flagged? It’s documentary.
• andix 10mo ago
  It's really hard to understand Chicago from this article, if you dont know all the referenced incidents already. Who are the kidnappers? Why are agents chasing a teacher? And so on...
  • QuadmasterXLII 10mo ago
    Immigration enforcement agents suddenly aren't required to show any sort of ID, reveal their faces, or produce any documentation about instances when they enforce immigration law, so "Who are the kidnappers" is actually a pretty good question.
    • andix 10mo ago
      I guess that's a reason to call the cops and report an abduction. Sorry, I'm a stupid European, that how we would handle such a situation.
      • hexbin010 10mo ago
        I hate to invoke the comparison, and not to diminish the Holocaust at all, but to give you a better idea of what's happening in the US right now: what's happening could be compared to the Gestapo rounding up the Jews. Innocent people are being rounded up by a faceless secret police, violently, in a terrorising manner, and taken to detention centres, with their human rights abused at every stage, with no due process and their fate unknown. This is beyond reporting to the local police department.
        • casenmgreen 10mo ago
          It seems to me exactly the same. An arbitrary group has been selected as being an enemy, they are used to present justifications for breaking law and due process, you then develop a large organization (Gestapo/ICE) accustomed to following orders and ignoring the law - if you're going to subvert the political system, you need to possess the means to force you will on the population. You need a large group of men who will perform violence when ordered to do so, regardless of law and due process. I mean we all know where this is going. There are not going to be free and fair elections again. This isn't a blip, it's a plan.
• getcthbf67 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  • tasty_freeze 10mo ago
    Have some courage and post under your normal account. Throw-aways don't help build community.
    • getcthbf67 10mo ago
      Censorship
      • tasty_freeze 10mo ago
        Disagreement is censorship? To make this more substantive and on point, I get the argument you are making -- if there were no "illegals" here, then there would be a stronger job market for the lower end of spectrum. That is true to some degree. It is healthy to discuss the issue, but the discussion should be based on all the facts, not some of the facts, and not made-up facts. Secondly, the article of the thread was talking about how the federal government is spending tens of billions of dollars to put masked goons in unmarked cars, often with no identification of who they are, jumping out of cars and abducting people. If you think this is just about rounding up people who came across the border illegal, you are sadly mistaken. This is about asserting power and terrorizing the regions that didn't vote for Trump. There are plenty of other undocumented workers in red regions. There are many red states with higher crime rates than the cities ICE is targeting. This isn't about law and order -- it is about intimidation and centralizing power. It would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so dire, but all the states rights people apparently have no problem with Trump exerting his will in states' business just so long is it is harming "libs".
        • getcthbf67 10mo ago
          [flagged]
          • 10mo ago
• deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
• queenkjuul 10mo ago
  This should not be flagged. This is the truth of what's happening here right now.
• jleyank 10mo ago
  Thought of CSNY's Chicago when I saw the headline. And, actually, it's pertinent. Except that things are probably worse now as there's no media scrutiny on what's going down.
• fancyfredbot 10mo ago
  https://archive.is/X33oQ https://archive.is/X33oQ for those in the UK.
• paganel 10mo ago
  This [1] is civil-war-inducing stuff, that's not "police", that's an army that attacks its own country's citizens. Crazy stuff, didn't think I'd get to see this happening in the States. [1] https://x.com/LAURA_N_ROD/status/1985412485185188067 https://x.com/LAURA_N_ROD/status/1985412485185188067
  • actionfromafar 10mo ago
    Later when things settle down, they will only do this to citizens who don’t pay the bribe.
• hypeatei 10mo ago
  A news station producer was arrested by ICE and the agents peeled away ripping off someone's bumper[0][1] just for her to be released later without charges. 0: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/14/chicago-ice-tv-producer-arrest https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/14/chicago-ice-... 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLGI2hMaz5Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLGI2hMaz5Q
  • chasil 10mo ago
    I would say that any U.S. citizen living in an area of focus who is even vaguely latino and/or does not speak English well should obtain a U.S. "passport card" and carry it on their person at all times, as a federally issued ID. It's $65 for the first application, and $30 at renewals. In this context, the passport card is much more valuable than a state-issued ID. You know if your children should have them. A real passport at home is also wise, in case these ruffians "lose" the card. It is intolerable that U.S. citizens are detained in this way.
    • mystraline 10mo ago
      When the "do you belong here? " is a non-sarcastic adaptation of the Family guy skin color meme, no amount of 'proper IDs' will do shit. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/family-guy-skin-color-chart
    • testing22321 10mo ago
      ICE have the official policy that no paperwork is sufficient to prove citizenship. The only source of truth it their biometrics app https://www.404media.co/you-cant-refuse-to-be-scanned-by-ices-facial-recognition-app-dhs-document-says/ https://www.404media.co/you-cant-refuse-to-be-scanned-by-ice...
      • chasil 10mo ago
        That will certainly not work for children, as their faces change. I live in Illinois. Since Republican governor Ryan gave chauffers licenses to undocumented immigrants (resulting in fatalities), it is certain that an Illinois license is worthless. I had hoped that an ID issued by the U.S. Department of State would be a safeguard. Perhaps not, but wise to obtain both forms, for the judge.
• Chockster 10mo ago
  What causes ICE actions in Chicago to be worse than ICE actions other US cities?
  • JeremyNT 10mo ago
    The President of the United States has a personal hatred of the city, and he has chosen specifically to target it in ways above and beyond others.
• epgui 10mo ago
  Currently as a Canadian there are probably only four or five countries I really do not want to travel to. In no particular order: North Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia and the United States.
  • ragazzina 10mo ago
    What is your main source of information about Iran?
    • epgui 10mo ago
      I don’t have any problem with Iranians. If you’re meaning to defend the regime you’re on the wrong side of History my friend.
  • don_neufeld 10mo ago
    Totally get it. My parents (Canadian) won’t visit, and haven’t since Trump’s first term. Keep in mind these are people who were educated in the US (Cornell, RPI, Florida State), and as kids, we used to spend at least a month a year in the US on vacation with their college friends. So not historically haters. Hell, I just remembered as a kid I spent a whole summer in Chicago. IIRC We stayed in student housing while my dad finished his book (https://archive.org/details/Inside_Commodore_Dos_1984_Datamost_a https://archive.org/details/Inside_Commodore_Dos_1984_Datamo...). Hottest summer of my life and no AC anywhere to be seen.
  • bluedino 10mo ago
    Why, exactly?
    • roxolotl 10mo ago
      Did you read the article? Not wanting to visit countries where secret police are rounding people up, regardless of citizenship, seems like a reasonable opinion.
      • khannn 10mo ago
• final_aeon 10mo ago
  I disagree with the premise that illegal immigration is OK
  • metadope 10mo ago
    How do you feel about legal immigration?
• rappatic 10mo ago
  > Agents with guns have chased a teacher into the school where she works The agents actually attempted to pull over Ms. Galeano’s vehicle, but the male driver (with Galeano in the passenger seat) refused to stop despite the sirens and lights. The agents pursued the car, which sped into a shopping center, and Ms. Galeano fled the vehicle and ran into a daycare, attempting to barricade herself inside. She didn’t get all the way in and was arrested inside the vestibule. None of the kids witnessed the arrest. Regardless of your thoughts on immigration and ICE, if a cop tries to pull you over, and instead you decide to speed off and barricade yourself inside a daycare, you’re probably going to get arrested.
  • kasey_junk 10mo ago
    Witnesses on the scene and the video evidence that has been released contradicts basically all of that. Perhaps we may one day know the real story if the government were ever to take any of this to trial. But given they are already in trouble for actively lying in court perhaps not. But you are actually wrong about what most police organizations would have done about enforcing an non-violent arrest warrant. If they were worried about the activities getting too close to a school they would specifically not follow the subject there. They would wait to get the person at a time and place that was safer. But this isn’t about public safety, as they are grabbing people from schools daily, its about intimidation and incompetence.
    • actionfromafar 10mo ago
      And the sheer joy of agents laughing at the job. Some of them really love what they do for a living.
  • mindslight 10mo ago
    > if a cop tries to pull you over But it was not a cop but rather some masked lynch posse, right? If I am being chased by a gang of lawless terrorists, you can be sure as shit that not stopping is going to be a high priority. At least until I figure out a better plan.
    • 10mo ago
• daft_pink 10mo ago
  I lived in Chicago before this and experienced shootings in my neighborhood every month and carjackings and drug addicts just roaming the streets and wigging out. It makes no sense that habitual criminals are protected and not deported by the local government. I think if the local government worked with ICE to deport criminals, this probably wouldn’t be happening the way that it was. I think the City of Chicago is totally ineffective at many many things like closing murder cases, keeping habitual criminals locked up, etc etc. It’s sad that this has become a political discussion instead of an effort to fix all the horrible problems in the city.
  • LexiMax 10mo ago
    > It’s sad that this has become a political discussion instead of an effort to fix all the horrible problems in the city. Every American citizen deserves due process and a fair punishment. This is outlined in the constitution and its amendments, and is not up for negotiation. If you live in the US and don't believe in these values, I don't see how any other citizen of the US could people like you as anything other than a dangerous and existential threat.
    • eszed 10mo ago
      > Every American citizen deserves due process Every human being, but yes.
      • ozozozd 10mo ago
        Anyone on US soil - regardless of citizenship status - has a constitutional right to due process. Whether or not they deserve could be a matter of opinion that has no significance.
        • computerthings 10mo ago
          [dead]
      • LexiMax 10mo ago
• segmondy 10mo ago
  if you reddit, follow r/chicago it's truly heartbreaking.
• fogzen 10mo ago
  I recently saw a video of armed, masked ICE terrorists entering a daycare and forcibly dragging a teacher out in front of babies and toddlers. America is sick. Republicans are sick. They condone this and have made no attempt to do anything about it.
  • inemesitaffia 10mo ago
    >teacher Citizen or legal immigrant? Carer or teacher?
    • nicbou 10mo ago
      Would one of the combinations make it acceptable?
      • inemesitaffia 10mo ago
        I'm looking for the appropriate description of what's going on. Somehow I'm led to believe it's okay to move into any country and Bhutan's restrictions on visitors are a-okay in the same breath. Canada's not far and it's not true there either.
        • fogzen 10mo ago
          The problem is not immigration policy — it’s using terror, illegal detainment, and negligent and excessive force to detain people. Breaking into a daycare with no warrant, no identification (they wear masks and refuse to identify themselves to avoid justice for their crimes), with guns, and dragging a woman out kicking and screaming is both completely illegal in every way and extremely traumatic for everyone - regardless of the wanton cruelty of deporting working class undocumented immigrants who have become a contributing and otherwise law-abiding part of a community.
          • inemesitaffia 10mo ago
            I don't think the courts will agree. The presence of a person without a valid visa is illegal and the person working without a working visa is another illegality. Not reporting your presence to the authorities is another level. Otherwise doesn't erase that. >avoid justice for their crimes Some other fact free nonsense. Yes the drama and force is extra, but it's not illegal, or unprecedented as I'll have you know from seeing video of immigration raids in the past, from the UK, Canada, Sweden and Australia, or pre 49 immigration raids. There's two classes of people who support this blatant criminality. The business class who relies on legal and illegal immigration + outsourcing to force down local and market wages. And the solidarity crew who are completely pro open borders without restrictions and couch it in other excuses. Borders are violence, they argue. While complaining about settlers and occupiers of indigenous land. It's a circle you can't square.
• stackedinserter 10mo ago
  The only question for OP and other chicagonians: why don't you organize and push back? It seems like the overwhelming majority of city population including local police doesn't support this, so go ahead and do something instead of crying on HN.
  • kasey_junk 10mo ago
    There are protests everyday you walnut and the administration is using that as a pretense to move in honest to god military troops. Nearly everyone I know (including my 80 year old neighbor) has been to a protest. You can go to an organizing meeting any day of the week in any neighborhood in the city. We are all walking around with whistles for signaling when ice comes and kids are making them on 3d printers in the library.
    • ragazzina 10mo ago
      Americans protest by writing witty signs and taking pictures for the ‘gram. No wonder they never work.
      • stackedinserter 10mo ago
        Exactly.
      • giraffe_lady 10mo ago
        You have no idea what we are doing or what it is like to do it.
        • ragazzina 10mo ago
          I do have no idea what you are doing.
• pessimizer 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  • jeffrallen 10mo ago
    It would not be necessary to dox the ICE agents if they were operating under normal rules of engagement for policing citizens. Police are not allowed to hide their identification because citizens need to be able to hold them accountable for abuses.
  • nullstyle 10mo ago
    Part of the problem with these degens is their attitude that downvotes mean they are over the target. This dude is just ignorant with, near as i can tell, asmongold on your brain and breath. His mistakes aren’t worth refuting, but I’ll give them one for free : despite the claim otherwise, it is in fact possible for Americans to go south to Mexico and live, and Mexico City is itself going through somewhat of a gentrification problem by gringos from the north. Channel 5 covered it recently: https://youtu.be/Oti0eNxLxyQ?si=JJqiQ3kiO46YxDSf https://youtu.be/Oti0eNxLxyQ?si=JJqiQ3kiO46YxDSf We all saw ICE laughing while they pepper balled a priest in the head. No one voted for that.
    • stackghost 10mo ago
      >We all saw ICE laughing while they pepper balled a priest in the head. No one voted for that. 70+ million of you voted for exactly that. Everyone saw exactly who and what Trump was during his first term.
    • lmz 10mo ago
      They can't just go there and live. I assume most of the gringos there are legal? Yet somehow Americans uniquely tolerate illegal border crossing and illegal overstaying. (Not American myself)
  • btintuntihrnchd 10mo ago
    [dead]
• nemo44x 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  • don_neufeld 10mo ago
    What’s your source? “The Biden administration has also carried out the most administrative returns in at least 15 years—more than 505,000 from FY 2021 through February 2024. For comparison, nearly 685,000 migrants were administratively returned over the previous two administrations, from FY 2009 through FY 2020.” That does not sound like a lack of enforcement to me. Source: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-deportation-record https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-deportation-re...
  • WillEngler 10mo ago
    This is a common objection I hear raised, so I think it's good that you raised it here. Respectfully, I think there is a lot of rhetorical slippage in your argument. First, I did not support the very loose amnesty policy, but I also don't support ICE teargassing the grocery store parking lot outside of my old apartment in Logan Square. In any case I don't think one's opinion on the first thing should disqualify them from having a take on deportation tactics. Second, I think there is substantial ambiguity in what people voted for on deportation. There were lots of promises of deporting dangerous criminals (something that I agree would be a good idea). A subset of Trump voters in 2024 did want to round up migrant day laborers standing outside of Home Depots, and they are getting what they voted for. But I think another large subset believed that there was going to be a targeted deportation of "the worst of the worst". The administration claims to be doing this, but the worst of the worst are very unlikely to be looking for work outside of Home Depot. Lastly, to your question, I think there are many many ways for the tactics to be more humane (and constitutional). To take just one example, I think the feds should resume allowing Catholic clergy into the Chicago-area processing facility at Broadview to administer the sacrament of the Eucharist.
    • nemo44x 10mo ago
      What is the precise qualification for which illegal alien is permitted and which one is deported? Opposition should propose legislation that allows migrant workers to easily obtain visas and return home and come back next year. This is how it was until the 1960s when that system was killed.
• vaquiya 10mo ago
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• BergAndCo 10mo ago
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• vaquiya 10mo ago
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• abvdasker 10mo ago
  When this is all over and Trump has been consigned to history's dustbin, at the very least the public deserves to know the names of the individual federal agents and entire chain of command responsible for these atrocities. The people responsible for this wanton cruelty need to be charged and tried criminally for their actions. Nobody is going to forget this and I think a lot of Americans will demand justice and accountability once all is said and done.
• tky 10mo ago
  Accurate, if even a bit softer than how it really is. I never felt unsafe in my west side Chicago community until the Black Hawks started doing daily intimidation runs. Until they abducted community members who were out working one day, gone the next. I used to push a wagon with side pockets full of bubbles, snacks, and toys. Now there’s fewer toys to make room for gas masks for kids and adults. Chicago is a tough town. People here are doing an amazing job restraining themselves and others. I’ve heard on more than one occasion people in crowds reminding one another to not give them reason to pull in the Guard. This will likely not be the case forever. More people need to see what’s happening here. This is not sustainable; generational harm is being inflicted on those directly targeted and those who seethe with anger and have to explain to kids why their friends aren’t around anymore.
  • lurk2 10mo ago
    > have to explain to kids why their friends aren’t around anymore. How does that conversation go?
    • tky 10mo ago
      Honestly, not well. It’s hard to articulate to a 4 year old that people like us are hiding for fear that they’ll be taken by “army men”
  • jalapenof 10mo ago
    [flagged]
  • xdennis 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    • ozozozd 10mo ago
      What’s the accurate description when US citizens are _allegedly_ accidentally arrested? How much freedom citizens must sacrifice for these laws to be enforced?
    • 10mo ago
• chinupbuttercup 10mo ago
  I don't agree with all the methods used by ICE in Chicago, but I understand the problem they are trying to fix. Most of the comments on HN don't seem to think there is a problem, but that could largely be due to our limited memories and selective hearing. Back in 2022, the Biden administration was flying immigrant family and children secretly at night to places like Chicago. I have a friend who worked at an airlines hired for this and it is reported in the news. However, no one seemed to care. https://nypost.com/2022/04/15/biden-administration-resumes-migrant-flights-to-airport-outside-nyc/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/15/biden-administration-resumes-m... It seems it's much easier to secretly bring people in than publicly try to remove them after it's done. Not surprising or shocking. The solution to "right" the situation could be amnesty, but that doesn't restore or build respect for the laws already on the books.
  • ozozozd 10mo ago
    I genuinely don’t follow. Had the immigrants not been moved to Chicago proper enforcement would be easier? Something about Chicago terrain or climate requires the enforcement to be this way?
• scoofy 10mo ago
  When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pretend that it’s happening in isolation. What they are doing, in large part, seems to be legal. Dressing detention up as kidnapping isn’t treating the issue in good faith.
  • Freedumbs 10mo ago
    wtf are you talking about? they've shot us citizens, they continually beat an kidnap us citizens for no reason. care to explain any of the actions in this blog post? are you aware of the attack they carried out on an apartment building where they took everyone, mostly US citizens into custody in the middle of the night? kidnapping is the best way to describe it. it's 100% accurate. there's no way to distinguish these terrorists as they drive unmarked cars and refuse to identify themselves. anyone could dress up like them and kidnap people.
    • scoofy 10mo ago
      Because detained and arrested is not the same as kidnapping. It’s just not even close.
      • UmGuys 10mo ago
        KIDNAP: To abduct or confine (a person) forcibly, by threat of force, or by deceit, without the authority of law. Care to explain the distinction? They have authority of law?? haha It's terrorism. No crime, no warrant, no due process. Obviously it's not kidnapping by law, because no law applies to ICE. The apartment building scene was a mass kidnapping of US citizens. They've shot US citizens for recording their actions with live bullets, pepper balls, and gas grenade launchers. They tear gassed kids on the playground, attacked a Halloween parade, the horrors are endless.
        • inemesitaffia 10mo ago
          >without the authority of law
• Freedumbs 10mo ago
  What's really insane is GOP literally sent all these immigrants on buses and planes to places like Chicago. Now they've hired all the proud boys, patriot front, etc, paid them during shutdown, gave them camo and military gear, and authorized them to terrorize everyone. There's no legal path to justice. It's an impossible situation constructed by people who hate their neighbors and want to literally kill them. It's so much worse than this blog post can capture or any comment. This shit is heinous.
• Freedumbs 10mo ago
  The best solution I can think of is for Illinois or any other place where ICE terrorists are deployed, should mobilize the National Guard to protect the people. They've done the opposite having the cops beat and arrest US citizens demanding justice.
• abustamam 10mo ago
  I applaud the authors use of the word "abducted" and "kidnapped." For some reason the media loves to just call it detained so anytime I see someone call it what it actually is deserves a gold star in my book. How low standards have become :(
• computerthings 10mo ago
  [dead]
• cteiosanu 10mo ago
  Banana republic
• velocity3230 10mo ago
  I have family in the US but there's no way I'm visiting them for the foreseeable future. The US is quickly sliding into the thing they claim to despise: a dictatorship with a populace cowering for their safety and lacking general human rights. Good luck, America.
• commiepatrol 10mo ago
  [flagged]
• shakes_mcjunkie 10mo ago
  The article is missing a bit about Bovino the other day. He threw a sieg heil and has been videoed doing "paper beats rock" with agents which is a white supremacist dog whistle. These people are openly racist and have unaccountable power to stomp around Chicago and destroy the community. https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/comments/1os2lid/greg_bovino_one_of_the_main_cbpice_commanders/ https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/comments/1os2lid/greg_bovi... *Edit: I forgot to mention, please consider (1) organizing with your neighbors now because this is probably coming to you sometime soon and (2) donating to ICIRR which is doing amazing on the ground work right now https://www.icirr.org/ https://www.icirr.org/
  • tasuki 10mo ago
    > He threw a sieg heil Obviously very bad. I can't understand how people can think Elon was "just waving". > has been videoed doing "paper beats rock" with agents which is a white supremacist dog whistle. This is woke nonsense: I was accused of bad things in the past. I did quite innocent things and was accused that my behaviour was a dog whistle for racism. I'm as racist as the next guy (I fail the white-bad black-good test) but consciously very much attempt to be less so!
    • _DeadFred_ 10mo ago
      Did you see the video of him doing the paper beats rock thing? Right after doing the sieg heil? It was very obviously he did it intentionally, whether to troll or not, those for who it is a dog whistle saw it and wagged their tale in joy.
    • deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    • tastyface 10mo ago
      It’s not new, it’s not “woke,” and it’s not subtle: https://www.adl.org/resources/article/coded-hate-extremists-weaponize-seemingly-innocuous-content-promote-bigotry https://www.adl.org/resources/article/coded-hate-extremists-... They’ve been doing this shit since they got their asses kicked by the Allies (1488, etc.)
• deleted 10mo ago
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• _zagj 10mo ago
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• Aerbil313 10mo ago
  Not an American. At this point, I'm beyond surprised there still isn't a resistance movement that doesn't play by the rules, because the ICE sure are not playing by the rules.