9 ms·

Might be useful to ask a different question: What makes people happy? It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more) T

• kaicianflone 11mo ago
  Ignorance is bliss
  • tantalor 11mo ago
    'tis folly to be wise
    • conesus 11mo ago
      Everything is a tradeoff, including aging. You [can] become wiser but at a sizable expense.
• interstice 11mo ago
  You could also say that the hedonic treadmill runs faster. Getting a result that takes a smart person a day instead of lets say a week means repeating that 7 times (successfully) to feel like the week was well spent.
  • y-curious 11mo ago
    This is an interesting take. Your expectations for yourself get higher the more you successfully do something hard. Hmm
• fsckboy 11mo ago
  >why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two but there is a direct link! have you ever watched a Slam Dunk competition? people strive to jump the highest, and zero empathy is shown
• m463 11mo ago
  something to do, someone to love, something to look forward to
• thinkingtoilet 11mo ago
  >Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. I laughed at this. However, I have to slightly disagree. I think there is a connection. I find the smarter people I know are actually happy, but they tend to be people who read books, who follow the news, and who care about the world at large and that is something that can easily make you sad. I'm not saying you need to be extra smart to do those things, I'm saying that smart people tend to do those things more than others.
• zdragnar 11mo ago
  As I heard someone say, happiness is your reality minus your expectations. Smart people see more variables that could be changed, more components that could be modified, and are less likely to accept things as they are. This creates a false sense of ease by which reality could be modified, and thus higher expectations for the world around them. I suspect this misplaces happiness and contentment, but the two are also very strongly correlated for many people.
  • BrokenCogs 11mo ago
    That's a good quote, but it suggests that unhappy people are those who overthink and have unrealistic expectations, whereas truly happy people have expectations that match their reality. so in the end, maybe smart people are those who are better at setting their expectations compared to others (maybe more ambitious type A folk)
    • aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
      > whereas truly happy people have expectations that match their reality By your hypothesis people who are poor, at the bottom of society, and told that they have no chance in life are the most happy ones. Additionally, it imples that a great way to make people happy is to brainwash them all the time that they have no chance in life, and additionally suppress them so that their expectations match their reality. This whole idea feels deeply wrong and dystopian to me.
      • BrokenCogs 11mo ago
        Yes, it feels wrong and dystopian but I think there is a hint of truth there? We're all happier when we're brainwashed by mindless feeds on our phones. Then, once we snap out of it, we're supremely unhappy when we realize that what's in our feeds is not our reality.
      • rgrs 11mo ago
        Poor people have no expectations?
  • 11mo ago
• drdaeman 11mo ago
  > What makes people happy? Technically, it's hormones. What makes brains produce them is the perceptions of external world, but the details are different for every culture and then different for every individual. Now, proverbially, more knowledge brings more sadness^W stress, so perceptive people must have extra hurdles to overcome than blissfully ignorant ones.
  • ranger_danger 11mo ago
    "For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief." Ecclesiastes 1:18
    • metalliqaz 11mo ago
      "where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise" Thomas Gray
• borroka 11mo ago
  "Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two" - I disagree. If we consider happiness, as we should, as something that can be achieved and not simply granted (for example, the ability to walk is granted, it is not something that humans, apart from pathologies and special cases, have to develop through conscious effort), there should be a positive correlation between intelligence and happiness. To jump higher than you currently can, assuming there is no coach to develop a program, you need to understand what the limiting factors are and train to improve the functioning of the “mechanism,” for example, by losing weight, increasing maximum and explosive strength, using the correct jumping technique, etc. I believe that often the most intelligent people tend to enjoy thinking more than doing, and thinking too much does not lead to being happier or jumping higher. The limiting factor, more often than not, is not thinking, assuming sufficient intelligence, but the execution part. I remember reading on Twitter a few years ago about an academic researcher explaining how they had come to the conclusion that exercise would improve their quality of life. They cited a series of articles, reasoned in terms of life expectancy and biomarkers, and concluded that exercise would be a net positive factor in their lives. A lot of neurotic reasoning that needs to quibble over the obvious before taking action. Many such cases.
  • curmudgeon22 11mo ago
    I agree with this. I quibble with the wording "enjoy" thinking. It's probably also true, but it's not always the enjoyment of it, but a general propensity to overthink or dig into the weeds more, with the resulting less actual doing. And if you dig into the weeds enough, you can find alternatives and counterarguments which can lead to analysis paralysis.
    • borroka 11mo ago
      I add that most problems are solved, assuming possessing the average (maybe even sub-average) intelligence needed to execute on them. Think about weight loss: it's a solved problem, except in extremely rare cases of particular pathologies. Or think about being more attractive to the people we want to attract. But you can't help but notice that the smartest people are the ones who invoke the laws of thermodynamics and the problems that arise from them, that a calorie is not a calorie in humans, for example, instead of simply eating less, as many less intelligent people intuitively know they should do, and do. The most intelligent are those who refer to the findings of evolutionary biology, or to largely irrelevant social trends and mores, when pondering why they cannot get laid, instead of working to be more assertive, confident, outgoing, and fit, as the less intelligent are more likely to do, without thinking about it too much. Or the endless conversations and debates, mostly online because in real life basically nobody cares, about God and religion and atheism, leading, as usual, to nowhere, while the less intelligent intuitively believe or not and that works for them. As usual, there are selection effects at play, and we notice what we want to notice, ignoring, for the most part, other portions of the distribution of outcomes. Nowadays, it is fashionable to say "you can just do things". And what some of the intelligent people miss is that they can just be happy. "But how can I be happy if nobody looks at me?" -- See above.
• nashashmi 11mo ago
  You could also ask the same question to why dumb people are happier. What is it about intelligence that robs people of joy?
  • aleph_minus_one 11mo ago
    > What is it about intelligence that robs people of joy? A hypothesis: intelligence makes it possible to realize how unfair you are treated by other people and society. This is also a premise in the respective part of the well-known science-fiction novel "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes.
• jstummbillig 11mo ago
  > How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence? Well, theoretically all of them, depending on how you define "intelligence" and, oh boy, if the last 3-ish years have taught me anything, it's definitely not that.
• B-Con 11mo ago
  > Asking why smart people aren't happier is a bit like asking why people who can jump high aren't more empathetic. There's no direct link between the two, you have to dip out to the material conditions. I think the reason to expect a correlation is simple: Intelligence should produce a better ability to recognize patterns and identify the most useful ones. In a chaotic world, the things that can lead to a desired outcome are not always clear. It takes time and reasoning to cut through the noise and figure out how to get things done. There is absolutely a reason to suspect that reasoning faster and abstractly would make this easier, and thus produce more overall rewards. Anytime intelligence is not associated with something, I interpret that to mean the topic is likely not a "hard" min/max problem. Turns out, most of the human aspect of life is not a hard min/max problem.
  • ozim 11mo ago
    Most human aspect of life is dealing with other people. That definitely is not min/max problem.
• ge96 11mo ago
  For me it's simple: a big open field with a blue sky, green grass, sunny, rc plane flying around DLG specifically - learned this when I was younger Now just burdened with debt/in suburbs, trying to get out and then live on a ranch Staring at a big body of water or the stars is calming too
• rawgabbit 11mo ago
  > Might be useful to ask a different question: What makes people happy? This is the age old question. For me at least, the quest for meaning lead me to reason. Reason and logic, then led me to two choices. First is there is no meaning, no purpose, and life is what you make or not make of it; this is more commonly known as nihilism. The second choice is a literal leap of faith; this argues that humans are incapable of understanding of the purpose of life and we need to have faith in the existence of a benevolent God. The leap of faith ultimately leads me back to the question of what is God? Catholic tradition defines God as the source of caritas also known as agape.
  • Induane 11mo ago
    It might be the case that the nuance is insufficient (false dichotomy). Suppose someone asks the [emotionally loaded] question: "Is abortion wrong?" Technically this is a yes or no question; a binary. One can quite easily answer that it depends, and then all the nuances can try to be enumerated in more detail. The fact is that the information presented was not actually nuanced enough to answer yes or no despite being worded as such. You performed some similar gymnastics here. You assume it must be the case that it is one or the other when it may not be. Maybe meaning is local. Maybe it is real but subjective. Maybe it isn't a meaningful term (lol). Maybe it contains an intrinsic paradox! A perhaps alternative question might be: "What is it that wishes to know the answer to that question?" Figuring that out might be a necessary prerequisite.
    • rawgabbit 10mo ago
      > "Is abortion wrong?" It is morally wrong as you are destroying life. If you widen the frame, the question is who should be making this choice. I would argue the mother should make this choice even if it is morally wrong. It is morally wrong because I took a leap of faith that human life from birth to conception is precious.
  • dvsfish 11mo ago
    Reason and logic lead you to only two choices, where one choice immediately begs you to abandon reason and logic and just believe what feels right? I think reason and logic can take you further than that. We can explore a spectrum of ideas without committing immediately.
• mapcars 11mo ago
  > It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more) Thats absolutely wrong and this is the reason why nothing works and being happy became and endless quest in the western culture. In the eastern spiritual tradition they found the exact ways of managing body, mind, emotions and energy to reach highest peaks of bliss and ecstasy, and I speak from my own experience, its possible to feel so good that no amount of money, relationships, fame, power, whatever other things you can imagine will make you ever feel. Because the real thing is happening inside, all the outside things you use to try to provoke inner experience, but it only works for a little bit. Here its explained in a better way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY5l0k6BTvc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY5l0k6BTvc
• ChrisMarshallNY 11mo ago
  I was watching the first couple of seasons of The Diplomat, on Netflix. It’s basically about a whole bunch of really smart, super-educated people, working together, or in opposition. The relationships they depict are total chaos. Not happy at all. I think it’s probably fairly realistic. Many of my heroes have two-digit IQs. Sometimes, I feel as if smart is overrated.
• saghm 11mo ago
  Yep, and the logical chain itself can often be pretty clear where the discrepancy lies. In order for it to have a noticeable effect, you'd need to be looking at people smart enough to correctly identify circumstances that will make them happy in advance and then be able to influence things in average more than factors outside their control influence them. I don't think most "smart" people are more smart than life is random, without even getting into how common the requisite level of self-awareness is.
• somenameforme 11mo ago
  I'd take a different answer to this question: philosophy. In times before Abrahamic religion developing or adopting a life philosophy was seen as a practical obligation for a man. This is where you saw the rise of everything from the Pythagorean to the Stoics. It seems that the rise of Abrahamic religions is what largely brought an end to this and mandated a sort of one-size-fits-all philosophy for everybody. Now in modern times many people have moved away from religion, yet most aren't replacing that philosophical void with anything comparable. And I think this naturally leads to things like hedonism which is completely unsatisfying over time, or even nihilism which is even less satisfying. One could even argue this issue is directly related to the collapse of fertility in developed nations. I think that a personal life philosophy is absolutely critical for having a contended life. And I use contended instead of 'happy' as part of my own philosophy of life. I don't think happiness is or should be a goal. Happiness is a naturally liminal emotion. And seeking to extend it is only likely to leave one 'unhappy', so to speak. So instead I think we should pursue contentedness. Being satisfied or pleased with one's life does not mean one is necessarily happy, but it certainly means you're content with it.
  • GoblinSlayer 10mo ago
    >One could even argue this issue is directly related to the collapse of fertility in developed nations. Or because information space was monopolized by oligarchs, then they decide what you think.
  • verisimi 11mo ago
    I think happiness is an inevitable byproduct of honestly following your innate sense of self. Intelligent people can be dishonest with themselves, not know themselves and be (more) capable of lying to themselves and coming up with justifications to do what they mentally want (rather than following their innate sense), thereby trapping themselves in endless dishonest but justified loops.
    • sciencejerk 11mo ago
      This tracks with what I've seen. Greater "capability" can imbue a greater ability to lie, cheat, deceive oneself, or others, and generally create all sorts of complicated problems, be them internal or external
• directevolve 11mo ago
  There are explanations for the equal happiness stats other than the validity of IQ tests. People’s top goal might be something other than happiness. Happiness and other goals might trade off. Happiness reports may be relative to an expected baseline that’s higher for smart people.
• Scarblac 11mo ago
  Don't most people have their own base level of happiness? Some people are just always happier than others, regardless of circumstances. It's a personality trait.
  • auselen 11mo ago
    For me it is a state of mind.
• petesergeant 11mo ago
  > What makes people happy? Wellbutrin
  • hirvi74 10mo ago
    I have an opportunity to try this, and I am absolutely horrified at the prospects. I've just got a bad feeling about it. Plus, I am on a medication that is quite dangerous to mix with it, so that further complicated matters. What's so good about Bupropion?
    • petesergeant 10mo ago
      > What's so good about Bupropion? GSK reps were calling it the happy, horny, skinny pill for a while.
      • hirvi74 10mo ago
        I already have those, and it isn't Bupropion. Hence my hesitation to start Bup on top of those.
        • petesergeant 10mo ago
          Why are they suggesting you take it then? Also feel free to send me email
• agumonkey 11mo ago
  It also varies during one's life. During my twenties, internal/intellectual stimulation was 90% of what I was seeking. After 35~ the need for family, social bonding, overshadowed that pretty much completely. I still need and like intellectual growth, but only after the other needs are taken care of. Being smart for its own sake kinda hurts now.
• kakacik 11mo ago
  I think its much simpler. Look around at your country, at the world. Who is most celebrated, who is biggest achiever, who gets most ladies/men (stupid metric but works fine on our animal side and we are still animals deep down). People celebrate that piece of sh*t musk for ffs because he is a good manager/sales guy, while ignoring deeply flawed amoral person behind. Its very rarely a smart decent person (and most smart folks are decent), those end up as quiet grey mouse in some lab or university position, seldom recognized for their added value. Extroverts, aggressive (to certain point at least), self-centered narcissistic egomaniacs seem to take the cake since ancient times. Those (and worse) are true decision makers, those people shape the world and its to their liking, which usually far off from what smart folks prefer seeing. Another reason - once you are way above the crowd, you realize how stupid people often behave, how easily is to manipulate those via emotions like hate, envy, fear or inferiority complex(magas are a prime example but such folks are everywhere). If they destroy just their lives with their stupidity who cares, but since everything is connected in societies and we have ie elections, it permeates everybody's lives and you have little defense. You know the situation - clearly a stupid decision that shoots off one's foot, yet crowds cheers and yell for it, willing to fight for it. And smart decent folks are dragged along whether they like or approve it or not. It can be on a small scale but also national/global level. Who wouldn't be frustrated, continuously, during their whole lives? Also warfare, almost always a supremely stupid move that is a loss for mankind as a whole while very few benefit. Yet look around. We should be reaching to the stars, fixing our environment properly so we can actually look in our children's and grandchildren's faces without a deep shame, yet look where world is heading steadily. To be happy these days, you have to have lowish IQ or be an utter ignorant, or both. I can find some smaller pieces of joy like kids, hikes or other sports in mountains and so on, but I have to keep ignoring big picture continuously, how powerful do harm all of us.
• wvh 10mo ago
  I think there is some value in being able to live in the moment, like say a cat: one moment you have a death scare, the next you're kind of hungry or sleepy. I feel that smart people see a lot more in the past, present and future, all the things themselves, and the things behind the things, and it's a whole lot harder to live in the moment and not ruminate and dwell on things. Alternatively, maybe it's just that overthinking that is driving some aspect of what we call intelligence; the ability to plan and see things in complex layers. Good amounts of happiness surely require some selective blindness.
• boesboes 10mo ago
  Smarts can impact all thos heavily. Relationships get complicated after years of exclusion and jealousy, work might not be as satifying if you see all the problems and solutions and things that are accopmplishments might not feel like they are. These are very common and well documented issues among gifted people.
• TomMasz 10mo ago
  I think you've hit on something important with work and accomplishment. I've heard software developers say over and over again they don't feel like they've actually accomplished anything when they complete some coding task. It's not just bug fixes, but tasks in general. Some of them take up hobbies like woodworking, where the results of your work are something tangible you can see and touch. But it's not just software development, a lot of jobs involve work that seemingly produces nothing despite the time and effort spent. It's not hard to see why so many people find their work miserable.
  • throw_this_one 10mo ago
    Yeah I mean literally cleaning my house, watching dirt suck up, and reorganizing can be much more satisfying than fixing some stubborn backend systems bug that takes years of knowledge to have the mental tools to fix - lol
• hearsathought 10mo ago
  > It's things like relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. (and many, many more) That's the point. Smarter people tend to have more stable relationships, satisfying work, accomplishments. ( and many, many more ). > How many of those happiness 'sources' are made better by intelligence? All of them. You get better jobs with intelligence. You achieve greater accomplishments via intelligence. And your relationships tend to be better because you are in a far better position intellectually, socially and financially. > There's no direct link between the two You are contradicting yourself here. There is a direct link to the criteria you listed - relationships, satisfying work, accomplishment. > Smart people are better able to create the outcomes they want > They select outcomes that make them happy > Their environment makes them happy > Smart people are happier. No. The problem is that intelligent people eventually realize that all of it is fleeting and utlimately meaningless - relationships, work, accomplishments. (and many, many more).
  • rafaelero 10mo ago
    Yeah, I suspect the reason the author didn't find a relationship between IQ and happiness / life satisfaction is probably because those studies were overcontrolling for intermediate variables. If money makes us happier and people with high IQ make more money, you will underestimate the relationship if you control for income.
  • a123b456c 10mo ago
    You had me until you said that "all of it is fleeting and ultimately meaningless - relationships, work, accomplishments. (and many, many more)" My dear friend. These are the only types of meaning that matters, and its fleeting nature is why we need to appreciate and savor them.
    • hearsathought 10mo ago
      > These are the only types of meaning that matters They may or may not be the only types of meaning that matter. Regardless, the fleeting nature of those moments ultimately make them meaningless and most people are not happy about it. > and its fleeting nature is why we need to appreciate and savor them. We can appreciate those moments. We can savor those moments. But we can't be happy about the fleeting nature of it. For most people, the fleeting nature of those moments are a source of sadness. It's why smart people invented religion or other means of rationalization to bring permanence and meaning to the impermanent and meaningless. Smart people tend to realize this and hence are sadden by it. Some accept it. Some use religion/rationalization as a form of escapism. But the truth is the truth.
• deleted 10mo ago
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