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Building the mouse Logitech won't make
- stn8188 1y ago"Balking at the $50+ charge for turnkey assembly, I opted to take the financially responsible route and pay $200+ for a hot-air rework station to solder it myself." Yeah, I feel this :)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ctippett 1y agoThat hit home for me too. My DIY cupboard is full of quality buy-it-for-life tools and accessories that I've used only a handful of times (or sometimes not at all).
- ruined 1y agoyou might consider contributing to your local tool library or hackerspace
- ctippett 1y agoGreat suggestion.
- njovin 1y agoWe both know that approximately 24 hours after donating something he will BADLY need it for an unexpected repair.
- loloquwowndueo 1y agoThen he can borrow it from the library he donated it to :)
- jimnotgym 1y agoI'm always worried that some less skilled user will have broken or not maintained it. I don't know how maker spaces get around this
- gdbsjjdn 1y agoUsually they have volunteers who do maintenance. At my local tool library the tools are well-used, but there's also like 10 of everything so you have lots of backup options.
- ruined 1y agomost places i’ve borrowed things will seek some basic assurances that i know what i’m doing, first. for example, when i borrowed a MIG welder, the person at the space asked me to weld some scrap metal in front of them before they let me loose with it.
- Aurornis 1y agoThis is easier than many assume: If you can find the Discord or even an e-mail for your local makerspace and send them a photo, they might urgently send someone to pick it up from you if it's useful to them.
- thiht 1y agoIs a local tool library or hackerspace something common? I’ve never heard of that but that sounds cool
- ruined 1y agotool libraries exist in most cities and a lot of rural areas. many hackerspaces also function as a tool library even if they don’t use the term.
- kleiba 1y agoYou know, for years I have been collecting power tools without having an immediate use for them - because they were for sale, or just because, you know, they're power tools. And a lot of them ended up just sitting on my workshop shelf, some of them never made it out of the box they came in. But then we bought a new house and I started renovating it. I think I have probably used every single tool I ever bought by now, and every time I used one for the first time, I was so happy that I didn't have to go and scout for a good deal first or drive to Home Depot to buy one right now or anything like that. So in my case, it actually paid off in the end to have PTPA (premature tool purchase addiction).
- XorNot 1y agoI've had this happen a couple of times now. There's definitely some jobs where I looked around and realized I'd used just about every tool I have. I think the only disappointment at the moment is my Makita rotary drywall cutter - a reciprocating multi tool is just so much easier to control and makes nice straight cuts easily. Still waiting for the welder to have its moment though.
- kleiba 1y agoA welder, huh? Hm... don't have one yet... hm...
- zrobotics 1y agoThose rotary drywall cutters are the ticket for cutting plastic. I first used one when I was a mechanic before changing careers, and we used one for trimming tough plastics like bumper covers. Takes a bit of practice to get a nice cut, since they are super aggressive, but they make a very nice, clean cut that's far better than any other tool I've tried. I've actually never used mine on drywall, I prefer one of the oscillating tools or a jab saw, but I've used it quite a bit for automotive and electronics work. You can make a front panel for a project stupidly quick with one of those, and it turns out nicer than cutting with a dremel cutoff blade.
- tickettotranai 1y agoI counter by asking if renting them would have saved you money. It's what I do when I need tools I don't usually use
- frankus 1y agoFor just straight up assembly of one-sided SMT boards (i.e. not reclaiming components from a donor board), a $30 plug-in electric skillet and a solder paste stencil from the PCB manufacturer (or patience and a solder paste syringe) works far better than it has any right to. https://www.instructables.com/Simple-Skillet-Surface-mount-Soldering/ https://www.instructables.com/Simple-Skillet-Surface-mount-S...
- Aurornis 1y agoThe hot air station is called a "rework station" because it's very helpful for rework, too. Using a hot plate to reflow boards is fine if you already know everything is correct. Having a real hot air station is very important if you need to change any parts or even fix reflow problems.
- throw-qqqqq 1y agoI prefer a regular soldering iron for SMD. Below 0603 I tend to blow off unrelated components if I’m not very very careful! So for me, a loupe/microscope and a fine SMD iron is the best option. I have some China-model that uses Hakko tips.
- alnwlsn 1y agoNobody believes me when I say that soldering SMD with an iron is easier than through hole. You don't have to keep flipping the board over!
- throw-qqqqq 1y agoTo be fair, it takes a little practice IMO and until you learn how to use flux correctly etc., it can seem very unattainable to ever learn well. I got a huge confidence boost from one of the old engineers with rubbish eyesight. Thinking “If HE can see well enough to do 0603 and smaller, then so can I!” :D A few hours practice on scrapped electronics made a big difference for me.
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- paulddraper 1y agoBut now you have it for "next" time....
- jimmies 1y agoAlternative way to see it: The author had either a $50 solution, or a $50 solution that comes with a discounted hotair rework station for $150… I learned it from Superfastmatt. He needed a piece of plastic that retails for $1500 for his van, so he said: “either I have a $1500 solution or I have a $1500 solution but I get a free fancy 3D printer in the end…” that stuck with me.
- stronglikedan 1y agoLol, was that the thing that jutted out the drive's side and let him put the bed sideways? If so, I missed that quip, but it's great regardless!
- m463 1y agoI've come full circle several times. I have a brake bleeder, an oil change jugs with a cap on top and the side, cellphone tool kits, and more... Sometimes it takes a while to derive the tenets of labor specialization from first principles. How many of us can make more making nets for fishermen than making nets AND fishing yourself?
- XorNot 1y agoSometimes I wonder this and then look up how much it costs to get some job done and realize I'm probably still coming out substantially ahead.
- viraptor 1y agoYou still need to account for a fun factor. I've got a nas which cost me probably $400 in parts to save on buying a $300 solution. But it's mine, janky, fun and I wouldn't have it any other way.
- BizarroLand 1y agoI know my local library loans out tools, I wonder if I can gift my use once tools to them so someone else could borrow them instead of buying?
- 1y ago
- userbinator 1y ago$200 is around 3-4x more than necessary for a decent hot air station these days; I had to check the date on the article as that would've been a more reasonable price 10-15 years ago.
- dotancohen 1y agoCan you recommend a good $50 option for someone getting into the field?
- _shantaram 1y agoYou can get a $15 hot air station and it's fine for getting quite a lot done! Look for clones of the Atten 858D. And come say hi in #electronics on Libera :)
- dotancohen 1y agoI'll look into that, thank you!
- qrsbrrr 1y agoworking class kid here. I feel this too. Card board. Recovered cables. Recovered entire circuits of formerly used boards that fit inside my palm (#jewishConstraints) #Undisclosed parts of my how~yo (how drunk are you willing to get (to train yourself) (while raising a now 23 years old .... "kid" #PGurNOTeventrying #sry4urKId that is already "there"
- tucnak 1y agoChuckled at 40-something kid now, kid! Classic
- vorgol 1y agoI've acquired so many tools like this, and I don't think I've ever looked at them at though I regretted the purchase. Many have enabled me to fix and make stuff down the line.
- ropable 1y agoThis statement also hit home for me when I thought over my woodworking tools. I could buy finished timber for $300, or I could spend $500 on tools and several hours to finish $75 of rough-sawn timber myself. We aren't doing these things to save money.
- Wololooo 1y agoAlmost never, in some cases you can but you need to be really in a nice and usually have access to the tooling for XYZ reasons. Then you would need to factor your labor cost, which is usually more than what would be billed normally in some cases...
- Scene_Cast2 1y agoA bit unrelated, but I have the same soldering helper as in the post. It's called Omnifixo (I found out about it from a YouTube video (Norm from Tested)). I was initially skeptical, but it's made soldering a whole lot easier - highly recommended. I've done some mouse PCB mods myself (swapping dead switches mainly). My biggest annoyance is resoldering through-hole components - unfortunately aftermarket PCBs for mice are quite rare, and my favorite mouse isn't all that popular in the "mouse community".
- thimabi 1y agoI wish I had the money and the know-how to do things like that. In a world where many companies are downright hostile to user needs and preferences, we need more DIY electronics — not less.
- Perz1val 1y agoOnly thing that's expensive is you breaking the mouse in the process.
- bityard 1y agoIt's never been a better time to get into DIY electronics projects. Literally every part of the process is well within a curious hacker's abilities. Microcontrollers and cheap sensors/displays started becoming commonplace around 15 years ago, and the most recent innovations are good and cheap PCB production and 3D printing your own parts/enclosures. You might check out https://hackaday.com/blog/ https://hackaday.com/blog/. They quite often feature projects from people who built the thing they wanted, instead of buying it. (Often because the thing they wanted couldn't be bought in the first place.)
- bobsmooth 1y agoHot air rework isn't that difficult. It's a skill like any other.
- arp242 1y agoThe MX Ergo S has USB-C and much more silent switches. Other than that, it's basically the same as the previous MX Ergo. I bought one a few weeks ago after I dropped and broke my old Ergo.
- sammycdubs 1y agoThis is how I find out they actually made one I honestly had no idea hahahaha
- scyzoryk_xyz 1y agoYeah I scrolled through the comments to confirm - they'd have to make the USB C for EU, and I'm 2nd ergo is getting gross and ready for replacement
- demarq 1y agoI modded mine to remove the friction in the middle wheel. But switching the switches is next. If there’s one product that absolutely needs to be shamelessly ripped off it has to be this one. It’s a mouse so close to perfection it boggles the mind why Logitech wouldn’t go the last mile. Manufacturers in china, if you see this, do the thing!
- sch-sara 1y agowhat was causing the friction / how did you fix it?
- demarq 1y agoThere is a spring and some sort of latch You can see it off to the side in this post https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackballs/comments/u0f9kn/smooth_scrolling_in_mx_ergo_mod_description_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackballs/comments/u0f9kn/smooth_s... But know that it won't make the onscreen scroll smooth. Only the physical feel
- sch-sara 1y agothanks! Fingers crossed I don't break anything
- Perz1val 1y agoHaha, I've done switches in multiple mice (see my large comment here), but I'm yet to mess with the encoder. I don't want it totally smooth, just smoother and quieter, do you know if there are any options? Are even encoders interchangeable mouse to mouse?
- skhameneh 1y agoI can relate in so many ways. I purchased a MX Master 3S and while it has a lot of great design choices, overall there were too many flaws for me and I returned it. While I had the mouse, I kept looking for ways to "fix scrolling" and everything repeatedly pointed to third party software. If you have an iPad or Android device, you're completely out of luck. How does a company become so out of tune with customers that customers feel the need to "fix" the design flaws of devices they bought? I'm not one of those people to "fix" the device, because when I found the polling speed and latency couldn't be increased, that was a complete stopper for me. I really wanted to make the mouse work for me, I really tried to make it work, but I couldn't get past the many flaws. It felt as if they went backwards from their old devices like the MX Revolution in many ways.
- andreldm 1y agoI’m also going to return an MX Master 3S (to my employer though). I could only fix its weird scrolling behavior with Logitech’s bloatware, still, for the life of me I couldn’t improve the cursor precision on macOS, it’s was simply maddening to use it. Strangely on Linux the precision issue isn’t so bad.
- skhameneh 1y agoI frequently came across this, but it doesn't work for iPadOS so I never tried it, maybe it would work for you: https://mos.caldis.me/ https://mos.caldis.me/
- jamesgeck0 1y agoMy MX Master 3 has a weird issue where it can just stop charging. Apparently this is just an issue it can have. The "fix" from Reddit is to squeeze the mouse until it starts charging again. It sounds like someone trolling, but it actually works about half the time.
- mrheosuper 1y agoSound like PCB traces cracking.
- johannsg 1y agoOn the hardware side, I wonder if the author has seen the MX Ergo S model. It features a USB-C charger, and they claim it’s 80% quieter.
- headwayoldest 1y agoLogitech held out on moving some of their more niche products to USB-C until they were forced by the EU. I'm sure when the author _started_ their journey they had not released the Ergo S yet, looks like it came out September '24. I also gave up on waiting for the Ergo S and grabbed a Kensington TB550. The name is awful, but the trackball is excellent.
- dylanredm0nd 1y agoI was thinking the same :) I have an MX Ergo from 2018, I'm not changing. The USB-C change isn't enough for me to change and I don't mind the click while WFH.
- jcuenod 1y agoI would _love_ to see more DIY mouse options. I feel like the mechanical keyboard crowd has so many options. I've been dreaming of a set of lego-style bits of a mouse that can be assembled together... want another button? here you go. Want it on the side? Modify the 3D print file. Want bluetooth? Use this board... Want USB-C? Use that board... Want both? We've got you covered... Want a hyper-scroll wheel? Well, Logitech has a patent on that one, but here's the closest thing you can get on a DIY mouse. Now click these buttons in the configurator and hit "upload", and the firmware is installed to use your new mouse on any machine.
- Perz1val 1y agoThere's a YT channel called optimum and he made his perfect mouse and brought it up to a product stage. It may give you some ideas (like the sensor PCB is a set you can buy). https://youtu.be/oMUEsz71_xQ https://youtu.be/oMUEsz71_xQ
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoTotally agree. Mouse preference is just as personal and maybe even more subjective than keyboard preference is, and even with the plethora of commercially available models, someone is going to be left settling because their needs aren’t quite met.
- tvb12 1y agoOn the subject of adding more buttons, I think there needs to be a rethinking of mouse button events at the OS level. Gaming mice with 12-20+ buttons have to resort to creating keyboard events with weird key combinations because there aren't actually that many mouse events, which is insane. There are currently only 12 valid integers (12 types of "click") sent from the raw mouse events. Those need special handling because the numbers are chosen very strangely, but why can't we agree that for any number within some range, the odd number is a key-press and the even number is the key-release, or something like that? You don't have to create named events for all of them, but the raw integers should be valid even if you have to use the lower level events. If I want to build a mouse with 32,000 buttons, the limit should not be the operating system's mouse event.
- Pet_Ant 1y agoI wonder if there is a way to crowdfund actually producing a batch of these? I mean you'd need to redesign the shell and a few more things, but ought to be doable. Either as printable STLs in TEP or as a group-buy. Also, I think it's criminal for any USB chargeable mouse to not just work as a regular corded mouse when plugged directly into a PC. PS - would it be possible to make a mouse use Cherry MX hotswap switches so that people could customise their clicks?
- nemomarx 1y agoWe used to do group buys of custom keyboards like that. Generally the organizer finds a factory or etc willing to do it for a certain volume and then you see if that many people are interested and will put down the money. It's a lot of organizing work mostly if you have the design ready for a factory
- ibaikov 1y agoIts called dropshipping and there are dedicated sites to make the process easier, however I never used one.
- basscomm 1y agoI still haven't figured out why they no longer make wired trackballs. The thing never moves, why do I need it to be wireless?
- JdeBP 1y agoWho is "they"? Perixx seems to be still selling wired trackballs.
- officialchicken 1y agoTo add some context to the title for you, "Building the mouse Logitech won't make", it's referring to / implying the entire PC industry including Logitech.
- JdeBP 1y agoWhich would make a statement that "they no longer make wired trackballs" a falsehood. So likely not whatever "they" basscomm had in mind, if you think about it.
- Krasnol 1y agoAs far as I can see it, they sell only wired vertical mice. Trackballs are all wireless. https://perixx.com/collections/mice?filter.v.t.shopify.connection-type=gid%3A%2F%2Fshopify%2FMetaobject%2F94293852419&page=1 https://perixx.com/collections/mice?filter.v.t.shopify.conne...
- privatelypublic 1y agoDoes this fix (or does anybosy know of a fix) where a m705 mouse stops responding to clicks on left and right? I'm about to test the "wetting current" theory by using a bench supply to actuate the switch near max specs.
- mahmoudimus 1y agoAre the switches bad? I recently replaced the switches on my mouse as I had the dreaded double click problem and it was unusable. Then they stopped responding. So I just did something similar to the OP, desoldered and soldered new switches and the mouse was as good as new.
- sugarpimpdorsey 1y agoI was excited for a minute thinking maybe someone finally made a wired Logitech trackball without having to pay $200 on eBay for a used one encrusted with someone's excreta. But no, here we have... replaced a micro USB port with USB-C. Something fixed with a $2 cable at Ikea. The epitome of first world problems and he even had a custom PCB made. That's not even worth the academic part of this.
- bloggie 1y agoHe didn’t even make it, someone else did… I’m always amazed to see such things at the top of HN.
- dmonitor 1y agoThe open source / open hardware offerings from Ploopy are very attractive for people that don't want to take this route https://ploopy.co https://ploopy.co They've apparently suspended shipping to the US, though. Not sure who to blame for that one..
- adregan 1y agoI was using a vertical Logitech mouse but was still experiencing discomfort mousing out to the side of my enormous Advantage2 keyboard. In an effort to head off any compounding RSI issues, I switched to a ploopy Adept trackball. Had no idea if I'd like switching to a trackball, and I love it! My hand never moves in an awkward motion, and mousing has become pretty restful. Better be careful tossing the ball up in the air idly during meetings as I won't be able to get a replacement if ploopy has paused shipping to the US (It's a pretty dumb habit at any rate).
- dmonitor 1y agoThey're just 1.75" snooker balls. It's very easy to get a big box of them. You'll also quickly notice why red never goes out of stock on Ploopy's website.
- MyNameIsFred 1y agoTL;DR Is US continues to change policy without any clear guidance nor facilitation. Impractical to comply. https://apnews.com/article/us-tariffs-goods-services-suspension-85c7b36b9e92c0e640dfe2ac418cd907?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share https://apnews.com/article/us-tariffs-goods-services-suspens...
- at-fates-hands 1y agoA great example is how they're handling DJI Drones.
- at-fates-hands 1y agoJust in case you're not really into the whole mechanical keyboard scene: QMK, or Quantum Mechanical Keyboard, is an open-source, community-centered configuration tool for keyboards and other input devices. QMK software is handy for creating layers, moving around specific keys, adding functions, etc.
- jpm_sd 1y agoI was into these trackball devices for a while, then my thumb started to hurt! Since I switched to a vertical mouse all my hand pain is gone. Highly recommend the MX Vertical.
- flanbiscuit 1y ago> My absolute favorite mouse is the MX Ergo from Logitech. I switched to using Logitech's MX Vertical mouse and I love it. There was a learning curve period, especially when it came to finer grained movements, but I'm totally used to it now and it feels much more comfortable and natural to me that any other mouse I've used. It has a USB-C port and I can switch between 3 different Bluetooth connections (press a button, connects to my work laptop, press it again, connects to my personal one). I'm not much of a power user so I don't customize the buttons but I know it's possible with an app. I don't use the app. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/mx-vertical-ergonomic-mouse https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/mx-vertical-ergonomic-...
- jedahan 1y agoI wish the coating lasted longer, I had to throw some tape on mine to keep using it - the rubber keeps wearing down.
- practice9 1y agoI find it hilarious/sad that the 0.5x cheaper Ergo M575 has much better design in that regard (just plastic that doesn’t degrade)
- fredfoobar 1y ago+1 The mouse has disappeared into my hand and I've forgotten its existence. When I read your post I remembered how pain free my mousing experience has been lately.
- rwmj 1y agoI wish that web page would show it actually being used. Basic question: Is it a mouse or a trackball?
- arp242 1y agoMouse
- dr_kiszonka 1y ago
- redog 1y agoI miss the old microsoft track ball. The ball wasn't a thumb exercise as it was under your index-middle-ring fingers and you clicked with the thumb.
- loloquwowndueo 1y agoDon’t current Kensington trackballs have this layout as well?
- redog 1y agoNot quite, with the thumb buttons like the Trackball Explorer had. Closest I can find is the DEFT Pro https://elecomusa.com/products/deft-pro-trackball https://elecomusa.com/products/deft-pro-trackball
- lytfyre 1y agoThey do, but I've had severe quality/lifetime issues with them. Three Kensington trackballs, two different models, all three lasted under a year for me.
- mkl 1y agoStrange. I have lots of Kensington Expert Mouse trackballs, some of which I have used for 7+ years, and none have ever given out on me. I have a stockpile of spares in case they stop making them, but they seem to be built very well. Which models did you have problems with, and what went wrong?
- lytfyre 1y agoNever tried the Expert Mouse in particular. Two of mine were slimblades, one orbit with scroll wheel. Different failures each time - Orbit - broken plastic around one of the bearings. ball no longer turned smoothly or straight in every direction, and dragged. Slimblade #1 - began to operate erratically. I believe it was a failure of some kind with one of the optical sensors, but I never was able to figure it out consistently. Slimblade #2 - microswitch under the LMB failed mechanically, no longer triggered. the slimblade's were provided by my employer at the time, the orbit was purchased personally for at home - it's use overlapped with the slimblades at work. I don't think I'm super unusually hard on my trackballs - My Elecom Huge lasted for ~6 years before the soft touch plastic finally got a bit gross from skin oil contact, but still was functionally fine, and my current protoarc is going strong two years in.
- hn_throw_250822 1y agoI still use the older blue ball (ahrem) mouse that takes in a AAA battery. But being able to replace switches to something a bit better would be a godsend. I’m looking at the price list for this job and I’m shaking my head. Up here in Canada shit is so expensive I foresee a future where the person with the hot air rework station has more business than the shops because a mouse like the normal MX is almost $120, and fixing stuff in the long term may prove to be more economical due to our stagnant wages. A lot of electronics and appliances can survive for a very long time with a few part changes or upgrades.
- pimlottc 1y agoI have the MX Ergo, it’s great, but I’ve never felt the need to install the official Logitech software on macOS. Works fine without it.
- marcosscriven 1y agoI wish Logitech upped the polling rate on their MX range of mice (when connected with 2.4GHz). It’s very noticeable seeing windows jitter around on a >100Hz screen. I had to settle for a “gaming” mouse to avoid this, but otherwise like the MX mice.
- bityard 1y agoMy favorite mouse is the Logitech Anywhere MX. It's highly comfortable despite being pretty small. The back/forward buttons on the side are indispensable for web browsing, file management, and switching weapons in first-person shooters. It takes two AA batteries which last for months and take seconds to swap out. The dongle is small and has good range. The scroll wheel switches between clicky and free-scrolling. It's pretty much the perfect mouse, IMO, to the point that I built up a back stock by hoarding new and open box on eBay. But there are two main problems: 1) The the microswitches go bad after a couple years. It's possible to replace them, but it's tedious and you run a very real risk of damaging the PCB (as I have already done). 2) The dongle is USB Type-A only. Logitech actively refused to make a USB-C unifying receiver. I assume they wanted to shift to bluetooth but they still made unifying receiver devices for years and years after bluetooth was everywhere, so I dunno. As far as newer iterations, the Anywhere MX 2S is somewhat tolerable, but it has a built-in battery which must be charged every couple of months, which is annoying. All of the newer Anywhere MX mice are even worse because they changed the basic functionality/features of the mouse with each revision. Oh, yes and they cost $90 (!) retail now. So basically one of my side-projects, one of these days, is going to be to try building an open source Anywhere MX clone. Should be a fun yet challenging endeavour. I know there are a bunch of online communities making their own keyboards from scratch and at great expense, is there such a thing for mice?
- mcdonje 1y agoBuilt in rechargeable batteries are a plus, not a minus.
- the_snooze 1y agoI consider them a minus because the proprietary batteries will likely fail before the rest of the mouse does. Using standard batteries means you’re not at the mercy of Logitech’s warranty when that happens. I wish more devices use standard batteries, but planned obsolescence is a hell of a drug.
- nfriedly 1y ago
- monster_truck 1y agoI've been using a mouse from https://pmm.gg https://pmm.gg, it weighs about half as much as the mouse I swapped the guts out of (28 grams vs 60 grams). Basically a couple sheets of printer paper. I don't really care about the weight, what caught my attention was they offer ceramic? coated magnesium scrollwheels. My otherwise mild skin condition completely destroys the shitty grippy/gummy rubber they put on scrollwheels and sometimes the sides of the mice. They offer the same coating on the shells, which I really enjoy. Yes, it's expensive but it still costs less than replacing mice over and over. I spend too much time holding this damn thing to settle for anything less. The quality is exceptional, assembly was easy, and the carbon fiber rod that snaps into place horizontally across the shape makes it more rigid than the stock mouse.
- ibaikov 1y agoI successfully removed this coating from my razer mouse using alcohol, it was pretty easy to do. The coating felt good when I unboxed the mouse, but yeah it turned into this chewed gum mess, now it's just plastic which is ok. Also turned out that disassembling the mouse was easy, so you probably might just swap the wheel entirely.
- monster_truck 1y agoSoapy water is your friend. Iso annihilates plastics.
- masklinn 1y ago> My otherwise mild skin condition completely destroys the shitty grippy/gummy rubber they put on scrollwheels and sometimes the sides of the mice. I’m not sure it’s even skin conditions. I think it’s just the natural oils in the skin. It’s part of what polishes plastics (e.g. keyboard keys), and over time it impregnates the rubber which swells then falls apart. This process is why wet belts are stupid, no reason to think mouse wheel rubber is any different.
- Night_Thastus 1y agoI agree with wet belts - it's a terrible idea - but I'm not sure the comparison is great. Skin oil and synthetic oil are very chemically different - as are the rubbers used in a cheap mousewheel versus an engine belt.
- Liftyee 1y agoI use this exact MX Ergo mouse daily and already have some experience in electronics. This ingenious mod is now at the top of my project list!
- zhivota 1y agoI got tired of paying the Logitech premium for the MX Ergo after I broke my second one (both out of warranty, both had the main button switch fail). Ended up with a copycat that works just as well and is 1/3rd the price.
- defulmere 1y agoamen to that! I started using a Logitech MX Vertical mouse a few years back to deal with wrist pain. It helped with the pain immensely, but the switches in the mouse failed after ~6 months of use. I replaced the Logitech mouse with an inexpensive vertical mouse from ProtoArc and haven't looked back.
- Insanity 1y agoTo be honest, I'm a big fan of the MX Master series, I'll get the MX Master 4 on launch day most likely (will perhaps wait for a few reviews to make sure there aren't any regressions). I even use it while gaming (it's heavier, but I used my g9x with max weight config, I like it that way).
- ruph123 1y agoI don’t understand why Logitech did not add the free spinnig scroll wheel to the Ergo? It is hard to go back from that but the Ergo is overall an excellent mouse. I just wish it was wired…
- system2 1y agoBattery lasts like 2 months, why would you want that?
- calfuris 1y agoWhy would I want to worry about a battery even every other month when I could just not worry about it ever?
- system2 1y agoIt takes 20 minutes to charge fully. Technically, you will use the mouse in "wired" mode for 20 minutes every two months. Instead of using it in 20 minutes wired mode and 2 months free of wires, you prefer to go fully wired. That doesn't make sense.
- calfuris 1y agoI don't see wires as a problem. Wireless accessories are slightly more convenient when you're moving the computer around, which is why my work laptop has a wired keyboard plugged into the dock and a wireless mouse with the receiver plugged into the laptop directly, but that's not a concern with my desktop so I go wired there.
- layer8 1y agoWired is about removing wake-up latency and wireless interference.
- spauldo 1y agoNot OP, but for me the biggest advantage of wired is that it's easier to find my mouse in my laptop bag or when my desk gets messy. I dunno how many times I've had to trace the wire to find my mouse buried in a stack of engineering drawings.
- lvl155 1y agoLogitech still refuses to make USB-C dongle/receiver. And every time I bring it up there’s always someone who says use USB-A. Yeah, duh. I am forced to use it. Five years ago they tried to make it sound like it was the USB-C standard but Lenovo has since proven that theory wrong since they have a USB-C receiver. I don’t like Chinese copycats but Logitech’s stupid marketing department is the reason why I don’t mind the Chinese ripping them off. Edit: I am wrong. They recently released USB-C receiver after years and years of refusing to make one.
- embeng4096 1y agoYou might be looking for the USB-C version of the Logi Bolt receiver? It's sold out on their website but I'm assuming there's availability on Amazon/Best Buy/eBay, etc. https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/logi-bolt-usb-receiver.956-000156 https://www.logitech.com/en-us/shop/p/logi-bolt-usb-receiver...
- lvl155 1y agoThis must be new? I checked about a month or two ago and ended up buying other products. Well I stand corrected and hopefully I can finally use my mice on my Macbook. Thank you!
- Perz1val 1y agoThe bolt USB-C receiver is only for bolt devices. Logitech has THREE incompatible wireless technologies. The unifying receiver and G series receivers are apparently the same one with different firmware. It has a few wireless channels and unifying uses 1 per device and G uses all for one device (faster pooling for gaming). Then there's Bolt that is something else and just a few devices connect to it. Idk if they plan to move everything to Bolt, but as of now all three live parallel to each other.
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- lvl155 1y ago
- kevin_thibedeau 1y ago> $200+ for a hot-air rework station The [insert random brand] 959D rework stations run around $55 and are suitable for hobbyist use.
- Perz1val 1y agoI love the [random brand] [number] stations naming, it's so funny.
- lupusreal 1y agoAll I want is an ambidextrous five button mouse, like the old Intellimouses. For some reason this layout is basically unobtainium.
- Eric_WVGG 1y agoshout out for SteerMouse! https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/ https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/ (macOS) It's a kind of magical mouse driver that supports nearly every USB mouse made, including _all_ the quirky little buttons and extra functions. As the author said, it's ultra-light-weight, native Mac UI (none of that weird chrome slop that companies like Razer insist upon using). I use mine with a funky Razer "MMO" mouse that has a funny numeric keypad on the side — all ten of the keys (plus the normal assortment of buttons) can be mapped any way I like. It came out all the way back in 2005, and has worked reliably ever since. Flat fee for the license, no subscriptions, free demo. Basically everything we all wish apps were.
- wlesieutre 1y agoWas going to post the same thing, I remember using it with a Logitech mouse and keyboard set on an iBook G3. Cool to see that 20 years later it’s still the alternative to Logitech’s shitty software.
- trelane 1y agoI am surprised folks are still installing software for their mouse. Guess I have just used Linux too long and expected mice to just work.
- Eric_WVGG 1y agosincerely curious — does Linux natively map the numeric keypad on my mouse? Is there a GUI?
- trelane 1y agoIt does not. I guess my devices aren't exotic enough. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Razer_peripherals https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Razer_peripherals I think things like extra buttons work fine. But if it gets too far out there, you have to get something that someone reverse engineered. Because proprietary software and devices are the norm, unfortunately.
- JdeBP 1y ago
- LordDragonfang 1y agoMy main workflow mouse has been the Logitech g600 for years. I love having 24 different macro keys accessible with my thumb (stuff like copy/paste, ctrl+w, ctrl+shift+t, enter, etc), but it's terribly un-ergonomic and the software is terrible (and doesn't let you configure settings except through its eye-watering UI). And afaict, Logitech actually stopped making them, so I have to snap them up whenever resellers put one on Amazon, since the main mouse button switch has a nasty habit of starting to double click after too long. It's to the point where I'm considering just commissioning a hardware hacker to make me a custom mouse.
- WillAdams 1y agoMy favorite, and I have spares, but I will be heartbroken when I work through them.... Would really be glad to know of a contemporary equivalent with USB-C.
- Perz1val 1y agoI highly recommend swapping switches, it's a noticeable upgrade
- ziml77 1y agoI was hoping for so long that Logitech would make a wireless version of the G600, but instead they killed it. I'm begrudgingly using a wireless Razer Naga now. It's pretty crappy though because it doesn't have onboard profile storage so you need to run their bloated software just to remap the buttons. Also it lacks the awesome ring finger button that the G600 has, despite the Naga having space on top that could have been used for an extra button.
- execution 1y agoI love my G600 as well. I think I nearly know how to replace most of the mouse. I can resolder new switches, mouse-wheel button and those buttons below the mouse wheel. And replacement pads for the mouse feet are easy to buy, if not, you can buy a pad uncut and custom-cut it. I just now need to learn how to replace the side dome buttons individually instead of replacing the whole PCB, since I cannot keep buying replacement mouses for just those side mouse buttons as the price seems to be creeping up with the increasing scarcity.
- luqtas 1y agoi built my daily driver with QMK [0]... it has 9 buttons, most bringing per app specific custom pie-menus with Kando [1] the design respects the most neutral position of the human arm anatomy, which lies between a slant angle of 20° up to 30° [2] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1jksi0x/mourseee/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1jksi0x/... [1] https://kando.menu/ https://kando.menu/ [2] https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2004.34.10.638 https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2004.34.10.638
- Perz1val 1y agoMy chosen mouse (for now) is logitech G305 with silent switches swapped in. I've one with Huano (brown case, bright dot) and one with Kailh (the grey cube with big round, red dot). They feel different, both will be weird if you're used to stock, clicky omrons. I've also replaced the side switches, scroll switch and DPI switch (6 in total). Kailhs have a sharper click feel, travel is smaller than stock. Huanos feel like they have more travel than stock, with a very long (soft?) tactile bump. Kailhs are marginally quieter. I don't prefer either, both are so much nicer than stock. I highly recommend swapping mouse switches, the stock omrons that logitech (and others) put in are loud, rattly trash. Huano makes really good clicky switches too. The good thing is that you can upgrade (fix) after the inevitable death (more likely double clicking than not clicking at all) of the stock ones. You'll likely want to buy both, because you will need (at least for G305) a square footprint switch to put under the scroll wheel. Kailhs despite being square and 2 pin, work fine for the main switches that have a 3 pin footprint. The third pin doesn't do anything. I've not experimented with nor researched the scroll encoder yet. Maybe there are quiet options to swap in. It's not bad as is, but it'd like something quieter with softer jumps. Except the obvious tools for soldering, don't forget to buy a new set of skates, because the screws will be under them. If the mouse is new, you might be able to unstick them intact. If it's not, you'll likely bend them and it won't glide as good. About the mouse - I just like the shape of G305, the wireless is good and with a lithium battery it is pretty light and lasts a long time. Lithium cells are like 7x the price, last maybe 2-3x as long, but are like 7-10g lighter, for mice get them only for weight reduction or working in cold places. People say Energizer ultimate lithium are the best, in my experience they last longer than lithium cells from Varta.
- code_biologist 1y agoGreat post. I too have a G305 with Kailhs. I felt nuts replacing the switches, and I'd never desoldered anything in my life before, but gosh the silent is so good.
- pinoy420 1y ago[dead]
- system2 1y agoI just need hyper scroll and horizontal scroll (dedicated, not combo scrolling) with MX Ergo. That would be the ultimate mouse...
- bitwize 1y agoWired USB or gtfo. Currently rocking a Kensington wired trackball. Honestly I miss the days of systems whose latency was constrained by c -- and not much else. It is literally impossible to get a modern system with a MIDI clock as rock-solid as the Atari ST was.
- Perz1val 1y agoWasn't the CPU clock number entirely made up for some time? Afaik on old systems one cycle was one cycle and it lasted as long as frequency implied. Now it's... complicated
- bitwize 1y agoThe Atari ST ran at 8 MHz. The Amiga ran to nicely sync with the video signal; slightly different numbers for PAL (7.09 MHz) and NTSC (7.16 MHz) systems. But yeah, it used to be you could design a system with rock-solid timing that made an implementation specialized to certain I/O applications cheap and easy... now... not so much
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- Glyptodon 1y agoFor anyone who prefers trackballs, I've been pretty fine w/ Elecom models, though they're not all the most "updated" designs.
- shawnz 1y agoIf you are looking for a vertical mouse with USB-C charging, a high-DPI sensor, robust switches, high polling rate, etc., consider this mouse that recently launched on Kickstarter: https://www.hansker.design/ https://www.hansker.design/ I got one recently due to some persistent wrist issues I've been having because it is the first ergo mouse I've had that ticks every box for me. It's not flawless but I still strongly recommend considering it if you're looking for something in this category. The designer previously posted about it on HN here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35613630 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35613630
- justinparus 1y agoHad a G602 for many years, and then migrated to M720 triathlon. I like the G series ergonomics, but the G604 kept breaking on me. M720 has treated me well so far and support for standard battery cells is very nice.
- Perz1val 1y agoWhat broke? You can replace the switches, stock omrons are pretty garbage and it's super common for them to break.
- alexk6 1y agoI've replaced the switches in my G604 once, but I don't think I'd do it again. The internal construction is overly complex, so the process took far too long — even though the actual desoldering and soldering was easy. I just wish Logitech would re-release this model with decent silent switches and without the rubber coating.
- randallsquared 1y agoJust want to plug the M720 some more. That mouse kept me going through years of work/personal computer use.
- Aardwolf 1y agoMan, I'd really want a wired USB one with the maglev wheel. The wireless one is buggy in linux: works well overall, but the scrollwheel sometimes requires 2 ticks for a single scroll when reversing direction
- HocusLocus 1y agoUsed a trackball since 1994. Desktop publishing and photo editing, if you've ever needed to position precisely and lift finger off the ball and click or mousedown without moving the focus again you'll just know. Kensignton makes a good one with a scrollwheel ring around it, the ball XY is perfect though the clickers are so-so in longevity. Working without a physical middle click and two button software middle click emulation is frustrating sometimes.
- fortyseven 1y agoThe current (and older) MX Master is a bit expensive, but it's worth it. Great mouse. Feels good. Battery lasts forever.
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- andvari_bekho 1y agoJust get a ProtoArc EM01 NL, it's basically a USB C Mx Ergo
- CalRobert 1y agoIf only we could get a modern Cordless Optical Trackman… https://www.newegg.com/logitech-904369-0403-cordless-optical-trackman/p/N82E16826104125 https://www.newegg.com/logitech-904369-0403-cordless-optical...
- 7bit 1y agoI love this kind of content here. A true hacker news! Thanks for the insight!
- KennyBlanken 1y agoThe biggest issue with Logitech mice is that they're purposefully designed to fail. Logitech uses shitty microswitches that either stop working or start 'bouncing' - a single click becomes two or more clicks. This has been an issue with logitech mice for 10+ years and it's so prevalent it can't possibly be by accident. Their mice are disposable as a revenue model. Mice should not fail, and in fact, I've never had a non-logitech mouse fail. A friend heard me say this and said "Well I love my logitech mouse" and I said "and how many have you bought?" They admitted they'd had to replace it several times because...drumroll please...various buttons on it stopped working or started double/triple clicking. I have gaming buddies who have had their very expensive logitech gaming mice fail, repeatedly, barely months into owning them. My ten year old Razor is still going strong, save for reduced battery life. The battery still lasts for many hours while gaming, which is plenty for my purposes, so I haven't bothered yet. The real joke would be Xbox Elite controllers. Several hundred dollars and infamous for failing sometimes within months. Never, ever buy one without a replacement plan.
- bobsmooth 1y agoMy original wired G502 is still working. The middle click sometimes doesn't work but I just gotta press a bit harder.
- orliesaurus 1y ago> After first publishing this article a helpful commenter let me know Logitech released the MX Ergo S in late 2024, with quieter switches, USB-C, and a $20 price increase. Let's just pretend I wrote this article a year ago! Still, at least this project let me avoid some e-waste. How many times does this happen to people? I mean, in my life i probably spent hundreds of hours writing code and hacking things together - forcing them to work - for tasks that turned out to be...already solved, I just couldn't find it...it was under the sun all along. Yeah you know, like when that Lenovo Thinkpad's trackpad needed some specific kernel hack on Linux for it to work... for the more obscure things however, I am glad and I respect those youtube uploaders that literally will post everything they discover just for the sake of sharing knowledge!
- KyleWasTaken 1y agoI'd say it happens pretty often. I almost became one of those when I posted about the exact same MX Ergo mod last year (using the same board). https://www.kyleniewiada.org/blog/2024/05/mx-ergo-usb-c-mod/ https://www.kyleniewiada.org/blog/2024/05/mx-ergo-usb-c-mod/ But in my case, it was 3 months before Logitech announced their USB-C revision.
- finaard 1y ago> I mean, in my life i probably spent hundreds of hours writing code and hacking things together - forcing them to work - for tasks that turned out to be...already solved, I just couldn't find it...it was under the sun all along. Once you get older it gets even more annoying - sometimes you end up solving a problem, and later on you realize (or, even worse, a friend points it out) that you've solved that already once before a decade ago _and_ published your solution back then.
- bobsmooth 1y agoI spent two days trying to reverse engineer the serial protocol for an LED panel I got from aliexpress. Just after I figured it out, I decided to google "<led board> github" and found a python library that did everything I needed and was much more elegant. Still, you have to enjoy the process.
- SirMaster 1y agoI love my Logitech G603. Was like $50 new, so nothing too expensive, has LIGHTSPEED wireless which has super low latency, but also has bluetooth in case you forget the dongle or can't use it for some reason. Or it's also really convenient to switch the mouse between 2 computers simply by pressing the button on the bottom, and it instantly switches. Uses the HERO sensor which is really power efficient and has a slot for 2 AA batteries of which you only need to actually install 1. Lasts several months off a single AA battery, and also so I just use those rechargeable AA batteries with built in USB port under the cap, so I can just charge it from the computer if I need a little more juice.
- Perz1val 1y agoI've modded it. The main switches are on separate, one sided PCB's and are easy to solder. Side switches are not standard, they're lower profile. Scroll and DPI switches are on the main PCB with a huge ground pad on one pin, I recommend just using a destructive method when removing them, or just leaving them alone. When it starts double clicking, just go for the swap. There's plenty of switches with different feel to choose from. Before disassembly get a set on new skates, you'll need to remove those long ones to get to the screws, they get wonky, don't slide as good anymore.
- SirMaster 1y agoI have opened mine a few times to clean the wheel encoder. When it gets too dusty the scrolling can get wonky, but I just detach the whole encoder and dunk it in 90% alcohol and then put a dab of lube and then put it back together and it's good for several more months. I managed to get the screws out without messing up the pads, and for me the mouse seems to stay clicked together just fine without any screws, so I just leave them out and can open it as much as I like without messing with the pads or screws. I haven't had double clicking buttons yet, but yeah I had seen that the switches are not too hard to replace, so I will probably do that at some point.
- minimaxir 1y agoI use the G502 X (https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/shop/p/g502-x-wireless-lightforce.910-006187 https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/shop/p/g502-x-wireless-light...) which has similar hardware capabilities, but more importantly, it has a lot of buttons which are a legitimate productivity increase. Unfortinately, the price rose with tariffs and it may be harder to justify.
- salynchnew 1y ago> After first publishing this article a helpful commenter let me know Logitech released the MX Ergo S in late 2024, with quieter switches, USB-C, and a $20 price increase. Let's just pretend I wrote this article a year ago! Still, at least this project let me avoid some e-waste. This is slightly funny, but I've noticed over the years that Google's decline in function as a quality search engine has correlated with lots of wasted time on my end, DIY-ing things that I later found to already exist somewhere in the world.
- corimaith 1y agoI feel that the author could have just bought one of those chinese mouses in aliexpress with hot-swappable switches and those other features for like $50 and saved a bunch of time..
- gennarro 1y ago>>After first publishing this article a helpful commenter let me know Logitech released the MX Ergo S in late 2024, with quieter switches, USB-C, and a $20 price increase. Been there before. 2 min of research could have saved hours (obviously fun project regardless). The thing is to do the research at the initial idea and then AGAIN before starting the project.
- encom 1y agoI'm surprised at the number of Logitech users in this thread, because in my experience the quality of their products has taken a total nose dive. Not to mention their products are over priced. I've had too many issues with them, and vowed to never buy from them again. My current mouse is a ZOWIE FK2-C. It's simple, wired and it just works. Been using it for years, and no switch issues yet.
- akvadrako 1y agoIf people are looking for something like the MX master but better Rapoo and Keychron are also names worth checking out. https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/vt0pro/ https://www.rapoo-eu.com/product/vt0pro/
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- stavros 1y agoI bought a Logitech trackball (the MX5something), and the switches stopped working a year in. Amazon refunded me, so I bought an MX Master 3S. The switches for that also stopped working a year in. I complained to the merchant and Logitech, and luckily they sent me a new mouse each. I also bought some replacement switches and repaired the lot, so now I have four mouses/trackballs. Still, they should make better mouses.
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- at-fates-hands 1y agoInteresting and robust comments about many mice I had no idea existed and will have to try out. Fascinating there's no comments about user's love of Apple's Magic Mouse. Would be interesting to get someone's take on why their mouse doesn't resonate with the HN crowd.
- bobsmooth 1y agoThis article is about an ergonomic mouse. The apple mouse is like anti-ergonomic.
- berbec 1y agoI'm a big fan of the Logitech Marathon Mouse (M702). It love the weight, battery life, use of AAs and the hand feel.
- chinathrow 1y agoSpeaking of Logitech - I use the Silent M330 as my daily driver. The last one I bought was of considerable shittier build quality - no rubber grip just plastic, way to lightweight compared to the old model. So in fact, unusable. Is this a known enshittification issue at Logitech?
- toss1 1y agoExcellent work here, on exactly the nits with this great mouse. I came to the MX Ergo when having shoulder surgery and found it worked perfectly only 1-2 days post-op, just putting it in the sling, but it is so much more efficient to use, particularly for CAD work than any regular mouse in the previous decades. Also great for use on airplanes where there's no real space to run a regular mouse. Will definitely check out SteerMouse, as the Logi software is often so marginal I just uninstall it and run the mouse bare. Thank you for posting and HN for getting this to the front page!
- burnt-resistor 1y agoI have an original, non-BT MX Revolution that I keep rehabilitating periodically with batteries and pads (the sites call them "skates") for my laptop-dock workstation so there's no pairing issues. Also have an MX Master 3 Advanced for travel, USB-C charges, and supports switching between 3 BT devices with an optional USB transceiver that stores away, and it also works on iOS devices but that's really more of a gimmick.
- anonymousiam 1y agoSlightly off-topic, but while reading the article, I was reminded of the terribly bad mouse switches that Logitech has used in some of their products. They aren't hermetically sealed, and they corrode after a few years. It's almost as if the mouse was designed to self-destruct after the warranty expires...
- avidiax 1y agoThe rubber parts on every mouse also seem designed to fall apart and get gross so you'll buy an new one.
- kennywinker 1y ago> Still, at least this project let me avoid some e-waste. A few paragraphs later: > PCBWay to manufacture the boards for my project (I ended up ordering 10 so I had spares). No hate, it’s ok to have hobbies, but i think 9 pcbs in a drawer somewhere forever cancels out any e-waste benefits you gained from not buying a new mouse XD
- kiernan 1y agoI miss the blue coloured model which had rumble/vibration feedback, just before everything moved to wireless which wouldn’t have had good enough battery tech at the time to continue it. Today, if they can fit them into tiny Nintendo controllers, surely it could be done well again…
- Leo-thorne 1y agoI’ve long been a fan of the MX Anywhere series. They’re light, reliable, and the side buttons make web browsing much smoother.But recently, mine started having sticky buttons and the grip began to peel. I tried fixing the micro switch myself and it turned into a real headache. Now I’m debating whether fixing it is worth the effort or if I should just grab a new one. What I really wish for is a mouse design more like mechanical keyboards modular parts, replaceable shells, customizable buttons. That kind of setup would finally make me feel like my mouse is meant to stick around for years, not get tossed at the first sign of wear.
- dandanua 1y agoI love DIY things, but now you can buy good alternatives for a fraction of the price, see e.g. ProtoArc, I love my EM04 model.
- bigcat12345678 1y agoI never able to find a left handed version of track ball... Who knows if there is such thing?
- sen 1y agoKensington make multiple trackballs that are ambidextrous. I use both the wireless and wired (on laptop and desktop respectively) versions of their “Expert Mouse” model for a fair few years now.
- cryptonector 1y agoWhat I want is a mouse for giant hands. It doesn't exist apparently. Halp!
- aurecchia 1y agoMy biggest issue with the MX Ergo is the finish on the "top" part. After a while it starts to degrade and becomes sticky. I have not found a way to clean it properly. :/
- flntzr 1y agoI cannot say anything about the MX Ergo. So far, my MX Vertical hasn't gone all sticky on me (yet?). What worked for me on other sticky plastics was rubbing alcohol. I does leave the finish slightly different than it was initially (less grippy), but I've had good results.
- aurecchia 1y agoI'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion!
- rekabis 1y agoSteermouse is also what made my Kensington Expert Mouse shine on MacOS again. It’s worth every penny.
- nicman23 1y agothe mouse that logitech won't make was the keychron m5 for me it has a 8k sensor and 1k polling. it is awesome. and if you go to logi's subreddit they want to gaslight you that 125 polling is enough lol
- benterix 1y ago> It uses a micro-USB port to charge. They released the plus model which uses USB-C so at least this point is no longer valid.
- ElijahLynn 1y agoHow about building a wireless charging solution internet mouse? So you let it rest on a flat wireless charging dock when you're not using it
- amai 1y agoTo find your favorite mouse have a look at https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tools/3d-model-shape-compare https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tools/3d-model-shape-compare For big hands I still like the MS Pro IntelliMouse. The Logitech MX Master 3S is a solid modern choice.