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Absolutely insane that this is what we've come to. It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. We are regressing this country so rapidly that we are

by selykg 2y ago

Absolutely insane that this is what we've come to. It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. We are regressing this country so rapidly that we are likely to become one of those shithole countries the president so loudly proclaimed Haiti, El Salvador and others were.

Aurornis 2y ago
> It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. It is not what people want. The Trump administration’s popularity is already below 50%, and much lower among independents (around 30% depending on the poll). Many people aren’t yet aware of what’s happening. A lot of the electorate is getting their news from filtered sources like Fox News or various far right media outlets. Joe Rogan has gone all in on praising Musk and Trump. People who get their information from Trump are being fed lies that are obvious to anyone not inside the bubble. They don’t know what’s happening because their heroes are telling them it’s all necessary and good. When you start polling people on the actual actions taken, things being cancelled, and consequences the approval is very low. Anecdotally, I have some extended family who were very pro-Trump. One of them recently discovered that her job was funded through a federal grant, and now it’s likely going to be cut even though she doesn’t work for the government directly. They also discovered that one of their family members is covered by Medicaid through an avenue that’s looking like it will be cut. They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  > It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. I suspect that other scapegoats can be found to blame for their problems; as you say, their news sources will offer them all sorts of filters to deflect blame from the obvious source.
  - xnx 2y ago
    > I suspect that other scapegoats can be found to blame for their problems Woke, Biden, DEI, Obama, trans, Hillary, Soros, gays, illegals, fluoride. Take your pick.
    - martythemaniak 2y ago
      > Take your pick. Now now, there's no need to choose, you can just blame all of them all at once!
    - brookst 2y ago
      You forgot vaccines, education, NATO, porn, the courts, Canada, women, and renewable energy. My biggest mystery is how these people have the energy to hate so many things so deeply. It sounds exhausting.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
        They don’t hate constantly, only when thinking about politics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate > The political purpose of the Two Minutes Hate is to allow the citizens of Oceania to vent their existential anguish and personal hatred toward politically expedient enemies: Goldstein and the enemy super-state of the moment. In re-directing the members' subconscious feelings away from the Party's governance of Oceania and toward non-existent external enemies, the Party minimises thoughtcrime and the consequent subversive behaviours of thoughtcriminals. The only thing it gets wrong is the variety of Goldsteins.
    - CoastalCoder 2y ago
      Sounds like the inspiration for a catchy but very dark Billy Joel song.
- devinprater 2y ago
  Yes, this is how blind people who voted for Trump are. Surely they can't get rid of the ADA...
- selykg 2y ago
  > Anecdotally, I have some extended family who were very pro-Trump. One of them recently discovered that her job was funded through a federal grant, and now it’s likely going to be cut even though she doesn’t work for the government directly. They also discovered that one of their family members is covered by Medicaid through an avenue that’s looking like it will be cut. They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. I keep hearing stuff like this, but it doesn't seem to be widespread enough to seem to matter, at least in my circle. There's this whole topic of conversation where there's this voter regret thing. I'm in Michigan, so there's been a few of these I've seen proclaiming the Muslim community are having regrets voting for Trump (it was a big thing around the election due to the whole Gaza situation, because voting for Harris was apparently not going to be enough). But I am worried I'm just seeing bullshit propaganda and these types of things aren't actually what's happening because everyone I've talked to seem to be content with the way things are going. It's incredibly weird.
  - baggachipz 2y ago
    They will always refuse to admit they were wrong or that they were duped. The reasons for hardships and failure will always be due to the group of "others" stymieing their progress. The enemy is both cleverly evil and simultaneously feckless. I know some trumpies and they think things are going swimmingly.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    All of the news stories about unlikely Trump voters having regrets are just ragebait. Journalists can always find someone for readers to laugh at because they voted for someone who was openly against them, but that’s a different issue. The real interesting voter regret is when the likely Trump voters start realizing that their guy isn’t who they thought. It’s not going to happen quickly because denial and rationalization can go on for a very long time. I am starting to see it in some of the VCs and crypto people I know personally and follow on Twitter. The launch of the Trump memecoin went through a rationalization cycle where the crypto people tried to spin it as a good thing, but now nearly all of them have given up and agreed it was a bad move for crypto One of the loudest pro-Trump VCs in my state has gone from being a cheerleader to asking questions about what DOGE is actually doing. The trigger for him was, strangely enough, Musk having public issues with the parents of two of his children. Something about realizing that he’s not a good family man and father finally broke his illusions of Musk as the perfect hero. I think it’s little things like this that will start making people ask questions about their heroes. The more topics and agencies they get their hands on, the more people will be impacted and be forced to reconcile their reality with their imagined ideals of this administration.
- gryfft 2y ago
  > They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. Ah, straight from denial into that other stage, more denial
- explain 2y ago
  > The Trump administration’s popularity is already below 50% Just under 50% of the population voted for President Trump, so it's a given that "already" the popularity is below 50%.
  - NilMostChill 2y ago
    Voting population. I'm not just being pedantic, it's an important distinction.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - weakfish 2y ago
    50% of the voting population, not general population
  - Brybry 2y ago
    USA 2024 population was ~340.1 million (census estimate). 156,302,318 voted (~63.9% of ~244 million eligible voters, extrapolated) 77.3 million voted for Trump (~49.8% of voters). So that's ~31.6% of eligible voters or ~22.7% of the US population.
    - troyvit 2y ago
      Welp, maybe those eligible voters who didn't vote will remember next time that not voting is the same as voting for the winner.
      - Brybry 2y ago
        I didn't vote. I have various (bad) reasons: - I live in a deeply partisan state where the outcome was predetermined: a disproportionate amount of those who didn't vote would have to vote in the opposite of those who voted (if I lived in a different state the pressure to vote would have been greater) - I lack an easy means to get to my polling location and my state makes absentee ballots difficult to get - I would have probably also needed to do some ID stuff (my ID is currently expired, for reasons) - Registering to vote puts my name/address/registered party/etc onto easily searchable public websites like https://voterrecords.com/ https://voterrecords.com/ My reasons aren't great but they're reasons. If there was less friction to voting I would have voted, as I recognize it's an important civic duty.
- dartos 2y ago
  It may not be what people want now, but it is what people voted for. People voted for tariff and massive day 1 changes and federal cuts. People wanted a loud strong man president who makes deals. These actions ARE what people (who voted) wanted… people just didn’t think about the outcome
  - realo 2y ago
    Which people? I hear that it is the same people who voted Donald last time who voted Donald again this time. No others voted for him. The issue seems to be that many people who are not trumpists did not vote at all. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that if everyone who could vote actually did vote, then Donald would have lost. So ... maybe he won, but i hardly think he represents the majority is US citizens.
    - dartos 2y ago
      > Which people? The 51% of voters that voted for him… (correction: 49.8%) > I hear that it is the same people who voted Donald last time who voted Donald again this time. No others voted for him. This is wrong. There were more republican voters this time around than last time. > The issue seems to be that many people who are not trumpists did not vote at all. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that if everyone who could vote actually did vote, then Donald would have lost. This is a constant issue in the US. Low voter turnout causes seemingly unpopular candidates to win. Go out and vote, people. Please. > So ... maybe he won, but i hardly think he represents the majority is US citizens. Never said it did. But if you don’t voice your opinion when it matters, then your opinion literally doesn’t count. So, the American people voted for trump and this administration. Either through their vote or their inaction.
      - alabastervlog 2y ago
        > The 51% of voters that voted for him… Nitpick: 49.8%
  - CoastalCoder 2y ago
    The isn't meant as any kind of defense regarding Trump or his supporters, but it seems under-discussed to me: The Democrats offered a really bad alternative (Biden) for most of the campaign season. Even if you liked his politics, there was (IMHO) legitimate reason to question his mental competence. My guess is that Trump would have lost if the Democrats had fielded a less-bad alternative.
- piva00 2y ago
  It can't be only attributed to ignorance, you see many comments here on Hacker News defending it with vitriol I had never experienced on this forum even during Trump's 1st presidency. Somehow Americans have really bought into it, the lies, the disinformation, the destruction. I cannot understand, the moving targets shift (CRT, immigration, DEI, cancel culture, wokeness, whatever is next) so it isn't about them whatsoever, they are just the distractions being fed to gather support, there's something else much deeper and darker broken in American society that became so obfuscated by these distractions to the point where I have absolutely no fucking idea why half of the country seems to hate everything that brought the USA to the position it had on the global stage. Perhaps it's just hubris after a very long period of quasi-absolute power, seems like power corrupts not only individuals but whole nations.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    We know that Russia has run a very long, very extensive disinformation campaign against the west. It might be expected that that extends to HN. Not everything posted here is someone's actual opinion. Some of it is deliberate propaganda and attempts to manipulate. That's hard to accept, given what HN was once. The difference between ten years ago and last year was noticeable; the difference between last year and this is much starker. You're in a war, even here.
    - piva00 2y ago
      I've become used to check those users comments and, unfortunately, a lot of them have been posting on HN for many years, even before Trump 1. It can be Russian disinfo but it's definitely not only that.
      - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        Yeah, it's kinda disheartening to be honest. That being said, the writing was on the wall in 2016, the first time Trump ran, HN (and the anglosphere internet in general) took a sharp dive down in quality, and Covid made it all worse. I just try to remember that the printing press caused a lot of wars, but over the longer term it lead to a better world.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dfxm12 2y ago
  This is what Trump campaigned on though. This is what he said he'd do. Did people vote for Trump because they thought he was a liar?
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    But isn't that how Trump campaigned and ran his first presidency? He vomits a stream of random garbage and, if you like him, you pick through it to find the half digested bits you like while ignoring everything else. His opponents do the opposite but, to be fair, it seems like a perfectly reasonable stance to listen to what a person says and assumes they might actually do what they are promising to do. His "charm" is that he won't do 3/4 of what he says, the difficulty is figuring out which quarter he is going to enact.
  - masfuerte 2y ago
    > Did people vote for Trump because they thought he was a liar? Yes! I know apparently smart people who voted for Trump because they thought that his more extreme rhetoric was merely intended to wind up the left. Like the first time he got elected. Except that this time he had a plan.
    - jgilias 2y ago
      How could they fall for it. I mean, even during the first time it was obvious that he actually meant it, as he did try to enact all the crazy bullshit. The only saving grace was adults in the room around him. Now all the adults are gone.
      - alabastervlog 2y ago
        IGs and others stopped him from doing some of the worst and dumbest stuff. This time he (illegally) fired a bunch of them right out of the gate. The Heritage Foundation wasn't caught off guard (and a bit out in the cold) by his success this time, and backed him with a plan. They did it out in the open, the recruiting and a whole lot of specifics about what they wanted to do and how they were going to do it. It wasn't even close to a secret, you could literally go download and read documents, watch interviews of key figures in front of friendly audiences, that kind of thing. With the Vance pick, you could also easily spot the Yarvin influence & connections and make some guesses about some things. When Elon started worming his way in, it was clear that side of it wasn't just going to be in the head of a VP who can't personally do much, but was going to have traction. His voters who are now like "WTF?" need to sit down and have a serious think about how they got conned by someone who was standing under a neon sign with a flashing arrow pointing down at him that read "I am conning you! Signed: Donald Trump". Like I'm not sure it even counts as a con, it was so transparent.
- the_gipsy 2y ago
  > It’s only a matter of time until they realize It will be far too late. That's why they're going so fast. The damage comes with a huge latency. Perhaps America can be saved and this is nothing but a bump in the ride, I'm no Nostradamus, but this could very well be the end of the Free West.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > this could very well be the end of the Free West Europe seems to be realising it must get its act together. Europe + Canada + the Americas have a hope in hell of containing America if it goes off the rails internationally. (When Trump & Musk tip the economy into recession it will be tempting to drum up a stupid war. My guess would have been Iran. But who the hell knows.)
    - hedora 2y ago
      They already allocated funding to deploy the military inside the US in border areas.
  - myvoiceismypass 2y ago
    The checks and balances part no longer exists, so definitely feels like it’s over.
    - inetknght 2y ago
      > checks and balances part no longer exists It honestly hasn't existed for decades.
      - hedora 2y ago
        States rights might save us. If I was a governor of a blue state, I’d be strongly encouraging laid off government workers to work for my state. I’d also be working to eliminate the trade deficit (including federal taxes and spending) with rest of the US. Why subsidize this crap if it’s not going to lead to economic prosperity, security, or even pretending the constitution still exists?
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  Tons of voters reverse many of their positions if you explain the issues to them without using the labels they’re used to. I’m not sure “they could have known, but didn’t bother to learn, and instead voted based on Fox News and talk radio and podcast and Facebook post bullshit” is enough to say they didn’t vote for this. If it is, that’s… kinda usually the case.
  - evan_ 2y ago
    > voters reverse many of their positions if you explain the issues to them without using the labels they’re used to …and that reversing lasts until the next time they turn on their TV and get reset by Fox News. I used to see it all the time with my parents. Now I just don’t talk to them much.
- RobRivera 2y ago
  The rules of this forum dictate that participants can't make claims of astroturfing, so I won't make that claim. On a related note, I find it interesting that your comment is being downvoted while contributing to the dialogue productively. Inference is left as an exercise to the reader.
  - CoastalCoder 2y ago
    Wouldn't that be an example of brigading, rather than astroturfing? Or is brigading considered a kind of astroturfing?
    - RobRivera 2y ago
      Depends, brigading can be organic or artifical. Artificial brigading from a campaign of controlled accts would be proper astroturfing.
- pyrale 2y ago
  > It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. "If only the Tsar knew"
- sockp0pp3t 2y ago
  Speaking of Rogan, did you listen to the Mike Benz episode? If Benz is gaslighting you have a point, but if Benz is truthful, then you don't.
philistine 2y ago
The is exactly a move the people in power in those troubled countries will use to maintain control over government. It used to be that the US government had pride in its own professionalism. The US is now acting like the countries it loves to destabilize.
- palata 2y ago
  > The US is now acting like the countries it loves to destabilize. Ironically, it's destabilising itself on its own.
  - iwontberude 2y ago
    I mean it sorta gave Russia a reason to attack us in the only way they can. Their super power is corruption.
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    Trump & Musk will walk out trillionaires, so they couldn't care less.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Trump & Musk will walk out trillionaires Or in jail. We’re not at the coup stakes of life and death, but we’re also like two months into this Presidency. (For what it’s worth, Trump isn’t currently being coup-ish. That’s been left to the pretender.)
      - anonzzzies 2y ago
        Which is why they are pushing so hard/fast; they need to destroy the right things to make sure they cannot be stopped.
        jordanb 2y ago
        It doesn't look like they're targeting the right things, given how much they've put into going after the FAA, NHTSA and NOAA. Not exactly dark-state power centers. Rather, they're people who've pissed of Elon specifically. It seems like they're spending 30% of effort on the areas that are likely to foment a counter-coup and 70% of their time attacking groups they have personal beefs with. But of course they're not just focusing on the powerless, they're also annoying the powerful enough that I don't see how it ends well for them.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dataangel 2y ago
This what a huge chunk of HN wanted! HN was all aboard the Trump train for years and the mods admonished anyone being too critical of other users for it, it's when I wrote off most of the people here as morons.
- matthewaveryusa 2y ago
  That's a bit harsh. Maybe a bunch of political juniors thinking the system needed a rewrite by a bunch of folks foreign to the system. Don't write it off, it could work. Probably not though
  - consteval 2y ago
    It's in an inexperienced engineers blood to demand a full rewrite. I mean, it's just so tempting. Learn from our mistakes, a build a system that solves them! Then, we don't have to wade through the crud on top of crud on top of crud to get simple things done! But, anyone who has ever been through such a rewrite knows they're usually more trouble than they're worth, and no matter what, you will lose A LOT. Doesn't matter how thorough you are or how many requirements you capture. Most are lost to the ether, never again to be seen... until the exact moment you need them.
- droopyEyelids 2y ago
  I’ll never forget the Great HN Vote where everyone decided to get on board the Trump Train
  - Octoth0rpe 2y ago
    OP didn't say a majority. It's hard to deny that a sizable portion of the tech community is made up of ancap techno-libertarian types; and that the dismantling of the US government is their dream.
    - pseudalopex 2y ago
      Saying a group was all aboard a train is not a common way to indicate a minority. And they said they wrote off most of the people here.
pyrale 2y ago
> It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. I very much doubt this is what people want. But people aren't asked their opinion, and there's a difference between disagreeing and starting an insurrection to prevent a coup.
- lokar 2y ago
  A lot of Americans have been getting screwed for 30 years and have little invested in the stability of the system.
  - Volundr 2y ago
    > have little invested in the stability of the system. They think they have little invested in the stability of the system.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago
    Tons of Trump's most-dedicated supporters appear to be able to afford very expensive trucks and boats and such, and to be able to do stuff like travel to DC to attempt a putsch in the middle of the work week. They're benefitting plenty from the stability of the system. Unfortunately.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    Exit polls from the November elections don't bear this out. The lowest income voters trended towards Harris. As did the highest income voters. Trump's support lies solidly in the middle class. If somebody is middle-income and thinks they aren't benefiting from a stable government and economy, I'm not really sure what to say... could we collectively do better? Absolutely. Is burning it all to the ground even remotely sensible? No, not even close.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  It's been a core tenet of Republican ideology for as long as I've been politically aware (30+ years now). People voting for Republicans are absolutely aware of this - they either explicitly want it, or are willing to accept as a cost of some other policy. Maybe 2026 mid-terms will prove me wrong, but if there isn't a wholesale turn away from the Trump-led GOP, it's safe to assume they're explicitly ok with this stuff.
alsoforgotmypwd 2y ago
America is a third-world country because people stopped caring, stopped reading, and fell for a cult.
Larrikin 2y ago
Getting into government to make it worse to show that government is bad has been a pillar of the Republican party since Reagan. They just used to pretend about it.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Why? Current action is no different than when Private Equity buys a company. The American public asked for the government to be ran like a business, and sadly, this is how big money men in the USA run businesses. Take control, fire everyone, leverage everything to their gain, bankrupt, then walk away. This IS what people voted for. American business practices applied to the government.

by selykg 2y ago

Aurornis 2y ago

> It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. It is not what people want. The Trump administration’s popularity is already below 50%, and much lower among independents (around 30% depending on the poll). Many people aren’t yet aware of what’s happening. A lot of the electorate is getting their news from filtered sources like Fox News or various far right media outlets. Joe Rogan has gone all in on praising Musk and Trump. People who get their information from Trump are being fed lies that are obvious to anyone not inside the bubble. They don’t know what’s happening because their heroes are telling them it’s all necessary and good. When you start polling people on the actual actions taken, things being cancelled, and consequences the approval is very low. Anecdotally, I have some extended family who were very pro-Trump. One of them recently discovered that her job was funded through a federal grant, and now it’s likely going to be cut even though she doesn’t work for the government directly. They also discovered that one of their family members is covered by Medicaid through an avenue that’s looking like it will be cut. They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage.

silverquiet 2y ago
> It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. I suspect that other scapegoats can be found to blame for their problems; as you say, their news sources will offer them all sorts of filters to deflect blame from the obvious source.
- xnx 2y ago
  > I suspect that other scapegoats can be found to blame for their problems Woke, Biden, DEI, Obama, trans, Hillary, Soros, gays, illegals, fluoride. Take your pick.
  - martythemaniak 2y ago
    > Take your pick. Now now, there's no need to choose, you can just blame all of them all at once!
  - brookst 2y ago
    You forgot vaccines, education, NATO, porn, the courts, Canada, women, and renewable energy. My biggest mystery is how these people have the energy to hate so many things so deeply. It sounds exhausting.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
      They don’t hate constantly, only when thinking about politics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate > The political purpose of the Two Minutes Hate is to allow the citizens of Oceania to vent their existential anguish and personal hatred toward politically expedient enemies: Goldstein and the enemy super-state of the moment. In re-directing the members' subconscious feelings away from the Party's governance of Oceania and toward non-existent external enemies, the Party minimises thoughtcrime and the consequent subversive behaviours of thoughtcriminals. The only thing it gets wrong is the variety of Goldsteins.
  - CoastalCoder 2y ago
    Sounds like the inspiration for a catchy but very dark Billy Joel song.
devinprater 2y ago
Yes, this is how blind people who voted for Trump are. Surely they can't get rid of the ADA...
selykg 2y ago
> Anecdotally, I have some extended family who were very pro-Trump. One of them recently discovered that her job was funded through a federal grant, and now it’s likely going to be cut even though she doesn’t work for the government directly. They also discovered that one of their family members is covered by Medicaid through an avenue that’s looking like it will be cut. They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. I keep hearing stuff like this, but it doesn't seem to be widespread enough to seem to matter, at least in my circle. There's this whole topic of conversation where there's this voter regret thing. I'm in Michigan, so there's been a few of these I've seen proclaiming the Muslim community are having regrets voting for Trump (it was a big thing around the election due to the whole Gaza situation, because voting for Harris was apparently not going to be enough). But I am worried I'm just seeing bullshit propaganda and these types of things aren't actually what's happening because everyone I've talked to seem to be content with the way things are going. It's incredibly weird.
- baggachipz 2y ago
  They will always refuse to admit they were wrong or that they were duped. The reasons for hardships and failure will always be due to the group of "others" stymieing their progress. The enemy is both cleverly evil and simultaneously feckless. I know some trumpies and they think things are going swimmingly.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  All of the news stories about unlikely Trump voters having regrets are just ragebait. Journalists can always find someone for readers to laugh at because they voted for someone who was openly against them, but that’s a different issue. The real interesting voter regret is when the likely Trump voters start realizing that their guy isn’t who they thought. It’s not going to happen quickly because denial and rationalization can go on for a very long time. I am starting to see it in some of the VCs and crypto people I know personally and follow on Twitter. The launch of the Trump memecoin went through a rationalization cycle where the crypto people tried to spin it as a good thing, but now nearly all of them have given up and agreed it was a bad move for crypto One of the loudest pro-Trump VCs in my state has gone from being a cheerleader to asking questions about what DOGE is actually doing. The trigger for him was, strangely enough, Musk having public issues with the parents of two of his children. Something about realizing that he’s not a good family man and father finally broke his illusions of Musk as the perfect hero. I think it’s little things like this that will start making people ask questions about their heroes. The more topics and agencies they get their hands on, the more people will be impacted and be forced to reconcile their reality with their imagined ideals of this administration.
gryfft 2y ago
> They went through a stage of disbelief, but now they’re in a phase where they’re sure everything will be fine and Trump will get it fixed. Ah, straight from denial into that other stage, more denial
explain 2y ago
> The Trump administration’s popularity is already below 50% Just under 50% of the population voted for President Trump, so it's a given that "already" the popularity is below 50%.
- NilMostChill 2y ago
  Voting population. I'm not just being pedantic, it's an important distinction.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- weakfish 2y ago
  50% of the voting population, not general population
- Brybry 2y ago
  USA 2024 population was ~340.1 million (census estimate). 156,302,318 voted (~63.9% of ~244 million eligible voters, extrapolated) 77.3 million voted for Trump (~49.8% of voters). So that's ~31.6% of eligible voters or ~22.7% of the US population.
  - troyvit 2y ago
    Welp, maybe those eligible voters who didn't vote will remember next time that not voting is the same as voting for the winner.
    - Brybry 2y ago
      I didn't vote. I have various (bad) reasons: - I live in a deeply partisan state where the outcome was predetermined: a disproportionate amount of those who didn't vote would have to vote in the opposite of those who voted (if I lived in a different state the pressure to vote would have been greater) - I lack an easy means to get to my polling location and my state makes absentee ballots difficult to get - I would have probably also needed to do some ID stuff (my ID is currently expired, for reasons) - Registering to vote puts my name/address/registered party/etc onto easily searchable public websites like https://voterrecords.com/ https://voterrecords.com/ My reasons aren't great but they're reasons. If there was less friction to voting I would have voted, as I recognize it's an important civic duty.
dartos 2y ago
It may not be what people want now, but it is what people voted for. People voted for tariff and massive day 1 changes and federal cuts. People wanted a loud strong man president who makes deals. These actions ARE what people (who voted) wanted… people just didn’t think about the outcome
- realo 2y ago
  Which people? I hear that it is the same people who voted Donald last time who voted Donald again this time. No others voted for him. The issue seems to be that many people who are not trumpists did not vote at all. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that if everyone who could vote actually did vote, then Donald would have lost. So ... maybe he won, but i hardly think he represents the majority is US citizens.
  - dartos 2y ago
    > Which people? The 51% of voters that voted for him… (correction: 49.8%) > I hear that it is the same people who voted Donald last time who voted Donald again this time. No others voted for him. This is wrong. There were more republican voters this time around than last time. > The issue seems to be that many people who are not trumpists did not vote at all. Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems that if everyone who could vote actually did vote, then Donald would have lost. This is a constant issue in the US. Low voter turnout causes seemingly unpopular candidates to win. Go out and vote, people. Please. > So ... maybe he won, but i hardly think he represents the majority is US citizens. Never said it did. But if you don’t voice your opinion when it matters, then your opinion literally doesn’t count. So, the American people voted for trump and this administration. Either through their vote or their inaction.
    - alabastervlog 2y ago
      > The 51% of voters that voted for him… Nitpick: 49.8%
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  The isn't meant as any kind of defense regarding Trump or his supporters, but it seems under-discussed to me: The Democrats offered a really bad alternative (Biden) for most of the campaign season. Even if you liked his politics, there was (IMHO) legitimate reason to question his mental competence. My guess is that Trump would have lost if the Democrats had fielded a less-bad alternative.
piva00 2y ago
It can't be only attributed to ignorance, you see many comments here on Hacker News defending it with vitriol I had never experienced on this forum even during Trump's 1st presidency. Somehow Americans have really bought into it, the lies, the disinformation, the destruction. I cannot understand, the moving targets shift (CRT, immigration, DEI, cancel culture, wokeness, whatever is next) so it isn't about them whatsoever, they are just the distractions being fed to gather support, there's something else much deeper and darker broken in American society that became so obfuscated by these distractions to the point where I have absolutely no fucking idea why half of the country seems to hate everything that brought the USA to the position it had on the global stage. Perhaps it's just hubris after a very long period of quasi-absolute power, seems like power corrupts not only individuals but whole nations.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  We know that Russia has run a very long, very extensive disinformation campaign against the west. It might be expected that that extends to HN. Not everything posted here is someone's actual opinion. Some of it is deliberate propaganda and attempts to manipulate. That's hard to accept, given what HN was once. The difference between ten years ago and last year was noticeable; the difference between last year and this is much starker. You're in a war, even here.
  - piva00 2y ago
    I've become used to check those users comments and, unfortunately, a lot of them have been posting on HN for many years, even before Trump 1. It can be Russian disinfo but it's definitely not only that.
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      Yeah, it's kinda disheartening to be honest. That being said, the writing was on the wall in 2016, the first time Trump ran, HN (and the anglosphere internet in general) took a sharp dive down in quality, and Covid made it all worse. I just try to remember that the printing press caused a lot of wars, but over the longer term it lead to a better world.
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dfxm12 2y ago
This is what Trump campaigned on though. This is what he said he'd do. Did people vote for Trump because they thought he was a liar?
- SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
  But isn't that how Trump campaigned and ran his first presidency? He vomits a stream of random garbage and, if you like him, you pick through it to find the half digested bits you like while ignoring everything else. His opponents do the opposite but, to be fair, it seems like a perfectly reasonable stance to listen to what a person says and assumes they might actually do what they are promising to do. His "charm" is that he won't do 3/4 of what he says, the difficulty is figuring out which quarter he is going to enact.
- masfuerte 2y ago
  > Did people vote for Trump because they thought he was a liar? Yes! I know apparently smart people who voted for Trump because they thought that his more extreme rhetoric was merely intended to wind up the left. Like the first time he got elected. Except that this time he had a plan.
  - jgilias 2y ago
    How could they fall for it. I mean, even during the first time it was obvious that he actually meant it, as he did try to enact all the crazy bullshit. The only saving grace was adults in the room around him. Now all the adults are gone.
    - alabastervlog 2y ago
      IGs and others stopped him from doing some of the worst and dumbest stuff. This time he (illegally) fired a bunch of them right out of the gate. The Heritage Foundation wasn't caught off guard (and a bit out in the cold) by his success this time, and backed him with a plan. They did it out in the open, the recruiting and a whole lot of specifics about what they wanted to do and how they were going to do it. It wasn't even close to a secret, you could literally go download and read documents, watch interviews of key figures in front of friendly audiences, that kind of thing. With the Vance pick, you could also easily spot the Yarvin influence & connections and make some guesses about some things. When Elon started worming his way in, it was clear that side of it wasn't just going to be in the head of a VP who can't personally do much, but was going to have traction. His voters who are now like "WTF?" need to sit down and have a serious think about how they got conned by someone who was standing under a neon sign with a flashing arrow pointing down at him that read "I am conning you! Signed: Donald Trump". Like I'm not sure it even counts as a con, it was so transparent.
the_gipsy 2y ago
> It’s only a matter of time until they realize It will be far too late. That's why they're going so fast. The damage comes with a huge latency. Perhaps America can be saved and this is nothing but a bump in the ride, I'm no Nostradamus, but this could very well be the end of the Free West.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > this could very well be the end of the Free West Europe seems to be realising it must get its act together. Europe + Canada + the Americas have a hope in hell of containing America if it goes off the rails internationally. (When Trump & Musk tip the economy into recession it will be tempting to drum up a stupid war. My guess would have been Iran. But who the hell knows.)
  - hedora 2y ago
    They already allocated funding to deploy the military inside the US in border areas.
- myvoiceismypass 2y ago
  The checks and balances part no longer exists, so definitely feels like it’s over.
  - inetknght 2y ago
    > checks and balances part no longer exists It honestly hasn't existed for decades.
    - hedora 2y ago
      States rights might save us. If I was a governor of a blue state, I’d be strongly encouraging laid off government workers to work for my state. I’d also be working to eliminate the trade deficit (including federal taxes and spending) with rest of the US. Why subsidize this crap if it’s not going to lead to economic prosperity, security, or even pretending the constitution still exists?
alabastervlog 2y ago
Tons of voters reverse many of their positions if you explain the issues to them without using the labels they’re used to. I’m not sure “they could have known, but didn’t bother to learn, and instead voted based on Fox News and talk radio and podcast and Facebook post bullshit” is enough to say they didn’t vote for this. If it is, that’s… kinda usually the case.
- evan_ 2y ago
  > voters reverse many of their positions if you explain the issues to them without using the labels they’re used to …and that reversing lasts until the next time they turn on their TV and get reset by Fox News. I used to see it all the time with my parents. Now I just don’t talk to them much.
RobRivera 2y ago
The rules of this forum dictate that participants can't make claims of astroturfing, so I won't make that claim. On a related note, I find it interesting that your comment is being downvoted while contributing to the dialogue productively. Inference is left as an exercise to the reader.
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  Wouldn't that be an example of brigading, rather than astroturfing? Or is brigading considered a kind of astroturfing?
  - RobRivera 2y ago
    Depends, brigading can be organic or artifical. Artificial brigading from a campaign of controlled accts would be proper astroturfing.
pyrale 2y ago
> It’s only a matter of time until they realize that they were the intended targets of the cuts, not accidental damage. "If only the Tsar knew"
sockp0pp3t 2y ago
Speaking of Rogan, did you listen to the Mike Benz episode? If Benz is gaslighting you have a point, but if Benz is truthful, then you don't.

philistine 2y ago

The is exactly a move the people in power in those troubled countries will use to maintain control over government. It used to be that the US government had pride in its own professionalism. The US is now acting like the countries it loves to destabilize.

palata 2y ago
> The US is now acting like the countries it loves to destabilize. Ironically, it's destabilising itself on its own.
- iwontberude 2y ago
  I mean it sorta gave Russia a reason to attack us in the only way they can. Their super power is corruption.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  Trump & Musk will walk out trillionaires, so they couldn't care less.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Trump & Musk will walk out trillionaires Or in jail. We’re not at the coup stakes of life and death, but we’re also like two months into this Presidency. (For what it’s worth, Trump isn’t currently being coup-ish. That’s been left to the pretender.)
    - anonzzzies 2y ago
      Which is why they are pushing so hard/fast; they need to destroy the right things to make sure they cannot be stopped.
      - jordanb 2y ago
        It doesn't look like they're targeting the right things, given how much they've put into going after the FAA, NHTSA and NOAA. Not exactly dark-state power centers. Rather, they're people who've pissed of Elon specifically. It seems like they're spending 30% of effort on the areas that are likely to foment a counter-coup and 70% of their time attacking groups they have personal beefs with. But of course they're not just focusing on the powerless, they're also annoying the powerful enough that I don't see how it ends well for them.

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dataangel 2y ago

This what a huge chunk of HN wanted! HN was all aboard the Trump train for years and the mods admonished anyone being too critical of other users for it, it's when I wrote off most of the people here as morons.

matthewaveryusa 2y ago
That's a bit harsh. Maybe a bunch of political juniors thinking the system needed a rewrite by a bunch of folks foreign to the system. Don't write it off, it could work. Probably not though
- consteval 2y ago
  It's in an inexperienced engineers blood to demand a full rewrite. I mean, it's just so tempting. Learn from our mistakes, a build a system that solves them! Then, we don't have to wade through the crud on top of crud on top of crud to get simple things done! But, anyone who has ever been through such a rewrite knows they're usually more trouble than they're worth, and no matter what, you will lose A LOT. Doesn't matter how thorough you are or how many requirements you capture. Most are lost to the ether, never again to be seen... until the exact moment you need them.
droopyEyelids 2y ago
I’ll never forget the Great HN Vote where everyone decided to get on board the Trump Train
- Octoth0rpe 2y ago
  OP didn't say a majority. It's hard to deny that a sizable portion of the tech community is made up of ancap techno-libertarian types; and that the dismantling of the US government is their dream.
  - pseudalopex 2y ago
    Saying a group was all aboard a train is not a common way to indicate a minority. And they said they wrote off most of the people here.

pyrale 2y ago

> It is mind blowing to me that this is what people want. I very much doubt this is what people want. But people aren't asked their opinion, and there's a difference between disagreeing and starting an insurrection to prevent a coup.

lokar 2y ago
A lot of Americans have been getting screwed for 30 years and have little invested in the stability of the system.
- Volundr 2y ago
  > have little invested in the stability of the system. They think they have little invested in the stability of the system.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  Tons of Trump's most-dedicated supporters appear to be able to afford very expensive trucks and boats and such, and to be able to do stuff like travel to DC to attempt a putsch in the middle of the work week. They're benefitting plenty from the stability of the system. Unfortunately.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  Exit polls from the November elections don't bear this out. The lowest income voters trended towards Harris. As did the highest income voters. Trump's support lies solidly in the middle class. If somebody is middle-income and thinks they aren't benefiting from a stable government and economy, I'm not really sure what to say... could we collectively do better? Absolutely. Is burning it all to the ground even remotely sensible? No, not even close.
alistairSH 2y ago
It's been a core tenet of Republican ideology for as long as I've been politically aware (30+ years now). People voting for Republicans are absolutely aware of this - they either explicitly want it, or are willing to accept as a cost of some other policy. Maybe 2026 mid-terms will prove me wrong, but if there isn't a wholesale turn away from the Trump-led GOP, it's safe to assume they're explicitly ok with this stuff.

alsoforgotmypwd 2y ago

America is a third-world country because people stopped caring, stopped reading, and fell for a cult.

Larrikin 2y ago

Getting into government to make it worse to show that government is bad has been a pillar of the Republican party since Reagan. They just used to pretend about it.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Why? Current action is no different than when Private Equity buys a company. The American public asked for the government to be ran like a business, and sadly, this is how big money men in the USA run businesses. Take control, fire everyone, leverage everything to their gain, bankrupt, then walk away. This IS what people voted for. American business practices applied to the government.