13 ms·

Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

318 points by stacktrust 4y ago

BooneJS 4y ago
I’ve met some Milwaukee engineers. They do a lot of computer simulation with commercial analysis tools in their design.
sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
This reads like AI-produced ad text.
- stacktrust 4y ago
  The human author of the text and this well-known blog is Stuart Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd https://twitter.com/toolguyd Toolguyd has an active community (e.g. 100+ comments on this post) with real-world experience, challenging claims made by the blog.
  - _Adam 4y ago
    Wow. AI is now good enough that writers are considered robot until proven human.
    - stacktrust 4y ago
      One could also draw an inference about readers, rather than writers.
  - insaneirish 4y ago
    > The human author of the text and this well-known blog is Stuart Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd https://twitter.com/toolguyd I find him to be pretty reliable overall, and I believe he’s drawn ire from some manufacturers due to his honesty. He also has a PhD (in materials science IIRC), FWIW.
  - tacitusarc 4y ago
    This post in particular, though, felt like a generated advertisement. There was too much repetition, too much promotion and strange wording.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  "AI" has come a long way, then! It is a bit fawning, and the sans font looks like a cheap blog. The content itself doesn't feel bot-driven.
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  Indeed, I felt like a human editor could have cut the length in half without sacrificing anything.
- mrjin 4y ago
  Not sure whether it's AI generated. But for sure it's ad.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
hope it sticks! Sears/craftsman tools were well respected before they dumped production overseas.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Craftsman tools were always just rebranded tools from other manufacturers. You can still buy many similar tools from the same US manufacturer with other names stamped into them. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-hand-tool-manufacturers-date-ranges.84807/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-hand-t...
selectodude 4y ago
Raises the bar from whom? Klein has been making tools in the USA for over a century.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Perhaps for Milwaukee. Any amount of turning back offshoring manufacturing is appreciated.
silisili 4y ago
They've got a lot of bar to raise. Really all TTI hand tools have always been rather meh, so this could turn the tide. For anyone interested, apparently Craftsman also just opened a huge hand tool plant in Texas. Nice to see a little resurgence in locally sourced stuff.
Someone1234 4y ago
Milwaukee's battery tools are pretty great (M12 and M18 lines), but their hand tools aren't particularly good in my experience. So "raising the bar" for them would be just making hand tools that people want to buy over the competition. Made in the US is fine/good/whatever, but what I want to see from them is tools that are just good in their own right. I want to see their hand tools top Project Farm charts like their battery stuff. Time will tell.
- nimbius 4y ago
  i apprenticed on armstrong and milwaukee tools and can confirm about 15 years ago they spun off a cheap Chinese line that was complete garbage compared to the USA line. good enough for tightening the occasional bolt but fell apart under daily use.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    They appear to have really stepped it up on the new hand-tools line. Not sure it is exactly worth the premium, but the ones I have are very nice (just get them on sale is all).
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      It is. I have their battery-powered framing nailer, and the same battery drives the new angle grinder I bought. Both a great tools. You don't really need to buy on sale, because they will last a long time.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Yeah the electric tools are always good, I was specifically referring to "hand tools" like sockets, wrenches, etc. I have the newer socket set in the little packout case and it's nice.
  - wil421 4y ago
    Sounds like harbor freight. I bought some “chrome” sockets that worked once. The chrome fell off and the bolts were stronger than the socket metal.
_Adam 4y ago
I don't think this will make much of a difference aside from the branding advantage. The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but rather of its design. All the decisions made during that process and all the cost / performance considerations made are what determine the ultimate outcome. It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tools, but this gets the causation backwards. We wanted cheap tools and sending production overseas was the only way to get them. In fact because less is spent on labor, a better quality product can be had for the same price. So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile.
- cplusplusfellow 4y ago
  I tend to disagree with this in many ways. Chinese products are often made from subpar raw materials like steel, which can be much more brittle than steel sourced from US, Germany, and Mexico.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Professionally engineered products have their steel specified by physical attributes, not country of origin. If it meets the spec, and passes QA, it meets the spec. That being said, not every plant makes every type of steel. Higher end steels are the types of steels that western manufacturers can compete on, so it is often what they specialize in.
    - cplusplusfellow 4y ago
      Some countries declare steel to have certain properties and they do not have those properties. This is a certifiable fact.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        Manufacturers can and do test steel for compliance and will demand remediation from suppliers if it exhibits issues. I have first hand experience.
oneplane 4y ago
I'm not entirely sure how any of this matters. Tools and what bar they have to pass are just design choices. If you design a tool to be bad, it will be bad, no matter who manufactures them or where. At the same time, if you don't have good quality assurance/control and no tests that the manufacturer has to pass, then the design doesn't matter, because the product apparently doesn't have to meet the design specification and the whole design is practically arbitrary. The only true change to the product that could happen is either a design change, or a change in available resources. Some multi-axis CNC machines are apparently not legally available everywhere in the world, so that could be a locality factor. On the other hand, plenty of companies design assemblies with complex components manufactured in various places around the world to be integrated elsewhere later on.
death_syn 4y ago
I'm interested in how these compare to quality Chinese tools like Harbor Freight's ICON line.
- rascul 4y ago
  Quality from Harbor Freight? I use tools for my day job and almost nothing from Harbor Freight holds up. Edit: Sorry, I should add a bit more. I certainly have not used all (or even most) Harbor Freight tools, but for the work I do, the tools I've bought from Harbor Freight, they just don't last. For a backyard mechanic or Average Joe Homeowner, they're probably just fine.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Icon tools are Taiwanese
  - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    Or, as the Chinese say, Chinese. Kidding, and Icon tools are quite decent.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Most Taiwanese tools are pretty good in my experience. The best deals at harbor freight IMO are the Taiwanese tools that aren’t branded “icon”
      - vgeek 4y ago
        Their Quinn/Doyle lines are frequently TW, too, and you can tell a huge difference versus Pittsburgh/Pro that are CN. I am not 100% if they bin batches differently, or if specific products switch from TW/CN and back. The TW Pittsburgh tools (some of the 72 tooth ratchets, 6pt sockets) are decent quality for their price-- but you still should feel them and inspect to get an idea (e.g. the foam used in grips for Pittsburgh pliers is junk, wobbly joints, poor finishes/grinding). The things they offer lifetime warranties on keep getting better. Some things I wonder about though. Their 200amp multi process mig welder is only $200 less than a Hobart or Lincoln-- but who knows how long HF will sell replacement parts, their warranty process for OOS items and what will actually break, so the gamble to save 10-20% doesn't seem worth it. Apex (Crescent/Gearwrench) are mostly TW and come in a little higher than HF's 2nd tier, but are solid quality for most of their hand tools.
stacktrust 4y ago
Country-of-Origin (CoO) metadata can influence some buying decisions. https://www.madeinamerica.gov/ https://www.madeinamerica.gov/ > When the U.S. government spends your tax dollars on American goods, we ensure our future is made in America. “Made in America” policies are designed to increase reliance on domestic supply chains and ultimately reduce the need to spend taxpayer dollars on foreign-made goods ... Various laws and regulations establish requirements for U.S. government procurement and assistance to support American manufacturing. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-ma... > The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. April 2022, https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/04/ftc-charges-battery-maker-first-case-under-made-usa-labeling-rule https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/04/ftc-charg... > FTC charges battery maker in first case under Made in USA Labeling Rule ... the order prohibits them from making unqualified U.S.-origin claims unless they have proof that the product’s final assembly or processing – and all significant processing – takes place in the US and that all or virtually all ingredients or components are made and sourced here ... The order further requires that any qualified Made in USA claims include clear disclosures about the extent to which the product contains foreign parts, ingredients, or components, or involved foreign processing. Some ecommerce tool sites have reliable CoO metadata and search filters. https://www.harryepstein.com/ https://www.harryepstein.com/ https://madeinusatools.com/ https://madeinusatools.com/
joezydeco 4y ago
The new factory is in Milwaukee but they put a lot of money and effort into a new engineering center in downtown Chicago. I've been contacted by more than a handful of recruiters trying to fill positions there.
whilestanding 4y ago
Increasingly looking like my decision to give up bootcamping myself into a coastal tech job and come back home to the midwest and work in a factory was the correct choice long term. Plenty of job security with all the onshoring happening. Ironically I'd be worried if I was in tech about the WFH trend and out of touch entitlement of the zoom class bringing about outsourcing again. Oh and the funny money ponzi scheme collapsing + that whole ageism thing..
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  That's amazing, care to shed light on how you transitioned from tech to manf? What kind of things do you do?
  - chmod600 4y ago
    It sounds like they didn't fully go into tech yet ("give up bootcamping"), so I'm not sure "transition" is the right word.
- chaosbutters314 4y ago
  seconding as someone interested in your transition.
- goodoldneon 4y ago
  I worked in steel plants for 7 years before becoming a software engineer. Making the switch was the best professional decision I've made. Steel is cyclical so it was so stressful when times were bad -- I survived 4 mass layoffs. There's also the constant penny pinching in every possible way, even to the point of removing the free coffee from break rooms. Now my salary is significantly higher and I deal with significantly less BS
- echelon 4y ago
  > with all the onshoring happening Can you expand on this? What industries, what components, and at what volume? How many jobs is this?
blt 4y ago
This is good news, but Milwaukee is primarily a power tool company. Bringing power tool manufacturing back to the USA would be much bigger news. Project Farm is a YouTube channel that reviews tools. I've noticed that most of the made-in-USA products are relatively simple - hand tools, drill bits, adhesives, lubricants, and so on. Any complex assembly that includes electronics is almost invariably made in Asia. It feels like the remaining made-in-USA tools are those where the manufacturer doesn't need to do much more than maintain some old machines and keep them fed with raw materials.
- fyzix 4y ago
  Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act)
  - chongli 4y ago
    You don’t have to choose one. With automation you can have a small, highly paid, highly skilled workforce do the work of a much larger, low skill, low paid workforce and actually produce higher quality products at a lower price.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - happyopossum 4y ago
      So you’re picking low prices and an UNpaid workforce - cutting a workforce by 90% but doubling pay for the remaining 10% doesn’t improve a local or domestic economy.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        > UNpaid workforce Automation is far from unpaid. At very least it expects you to give it food (electricity, gasoline, etc.), shelter, and healthcare (repairs and maintenance). Generally the same things that humans expect from you. Automation is significant not because it is unpaid, but because it can often do much more work for the same amount of pay.
curiousgal 4y ago
The only reason I recognized this brand is because of Project Farm who delivers insightful tool review/comparison videos. Latest was published 4 hours ago. https://youtu.be/E-Xfv-7FFNk https://youtu.be/E-Xfv-7FFNk
ajaimk 4y ago
Isn’t Milwaukee tool owned by a Chinese company? Some irony here.
- loufe 4y ago
  Yessir, it's a subsidiary of Techtronic Industries, headquartered in Hong Kong.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - stacktrust 4y ago
    https://archive.ph/N5pPO https://archive.ph/N5pPO > [German] Chairman Horst J. Pudwill, a former Volkswagen executive ... co-founded the company in 1985 as a maker of rechargeable battery packs for cordless tools. It then made tools for do-it-yourselfers on a contract basis for Sears Holdings Corp.'s (SHLD ) Craftsman brand, among others. Then it bought control of brands, including rights to the Ryobi name outside Japan, Royal vacuum cleaners, and Homelite garden tools. The big move was the $626 million purchase of Milwaukee Electric Tool and Germany's AEG Power Tools -- both premier brands used by professionals -- from Atlas Copco. > Techtronic can also take new tools from the conceptual stage to production in as little as six months, thanks to 24/7 collaboration among designers in Asia and Techtronic's "concept centers" in Hong Kong, South Carolina, Germany, and Britain.
- tzs 4y ago
  Yes. They are owned by the Hong Kong company Techtronic Industries, which also owns Homelite, Hart, Oreck, Dirt Devil, and a few others. Ryobi Power Tools and Ryobi Outdoor Equipment are also Techtronic Industries brands, under license from Ryobi. Techtronic Industries bought them from the Swedish company Atlas Copco in 2005. Here's an article on who owns what in power tools [1]. With some of the licensing deals, the same brand might actually come from two different companies. Emerson owns RIDGID and makes tools under that name, but also licenses the name to Techtronic. Emerson seems to make the non-powered RIDGID tools and Techtronic makes the powered ones. It looks like maybe 6 companies cover pretty much every power tool brand that most people in the US are likely to find at Home Depot, Lowe's, ACE, Walmart, and so on. I just wish that they would get together and agree on battery standards for their cordless power tools, so that batteries could be interchanged. My first lithium battery cordless tool was a bundle from Black & Decker of a weed whacker and a hedge trimer. Since then I've added a B&D drill and a B&D impact driver. I now need a cordless leaf blower and although it looks like some other brands would fit my needs better than B&D I'll probably go with B&D just to avoid getting another battery system (and will probably by the tool only since I have enough B&D batteries and chargers already--I don't use enough tools simultaneously to need more than the three batteries and charges I already have). There are some adapters to allow mixing batteries, for example this one allows using Black & Decker 20V batteries on Bosch 18V tools [2], so it might be feasible to branch out from B&D without having to deal with a different battery system. [1] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/ https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-... [2] https://powertoolsadapters.com/products/black-decker-20v-to-bosch-18v-battery-adapter https://powertoolsadapters.com/products/black-decker-20v-to-...
walrus01 4y ago
Anecdotal, but the Milwaukee packout modular stacking toolbox/rolling system has become wildly popular with electrical and low voltage + premises fiber contractors. Home Depot and several others have tried to clone it with their own cheaper house brands which are kinda okay, but not as good as the original.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Packout has gone wildly successful, far outstripping what Milwaukee thought it would hit. There's tons of stuff in the pipeline for it, too. The other "good" modular storage systems are made by the same subcontractor in Israel it seems. Though I find packout easier to disconnect compared to toughsystem2 and the systainers are nice but a bit fragile.
- bradly 4y ago
  Pack out is great. A great alternative to Festool’s Systainer system.
CraigJPerry 4y ago
I noticed at the most recent Milwaukee power tools event that they’re really going all in on specialist tools. This is a strong signal that they’re going to continue to cream the competition because irrational or not, people end up preferring a single battery platform, it’s not guaranteed they’ll stick to one brand for future power tool purchases but it’s extremely sticky. The Milwaukee battery power tool ecosystem started off being better than the competition by having better battery technology on the market sooner. Now they’re going all in on diversification of specialist tools. Should i buy a dewalt or makita or bosch battery power tool knowing that i can add other common tools in future or should i go Milwaukee and enjoy better battery choices, and a far far wider selection of power tools for future purchases? If i hadn’t started out with team blue, I’d be buying team red. I might switch when i need to replace batteries next.
- stacktrust 4y ago
  Are there adapters to migrate between some battery platforms?
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    DRM is coming to batteries to prevent such adaptors.
  - sbierwagen 4y ago
    Yes. But for certain vendors and voltages it can make the tool much more bulky: the Milwaukee 12v is cylindrical and inserts into the grip while Dewalt 12 is rectangular, etc.
    - GuB-42 4y ago
      Not only that but is would add an extra failure point. Hand tools are made for rough use, and I certainly wouldn't want a flimsy adapter between my tool and battery. And I am just a home gamer. I can't imagine a pro whose living depends on reliable tools rely on hacks like these. These guys buy absurdly expensive Hilti tools because this is a brand they can count on, they can spend a couple hundred bucks on a pair of proper batteries.
yomkippur 4y ago
I am seeing the following trends: - supply chain is moving to US (ex. Korean conglomerates, TSMC, Japan) - cost of goods is rising as result of Made in US - increased number of articles justifying this for improvement in quality
- stacktrust 4y ago
  Some German-manufactured goods have earned their price premiums with a track record of quality products.
  - yomkippur 4y ago
    but why is it then so many BMW have issues? I have to go to my Benz dealership quite frequently too. Toyota/Lexus - zero issues.
    - symlinkk 4y ago
      Because BMW and Mercedes are pushing the envelope in technology. Lexus and Toyota stick with old technology. It makes their cars less pleasant to use - older infotainment, worse performance - but they are more reliable. Different values.
      - wyclif 4y ago
        They're also simpler when it comes to options. I had an Audi once and it had electronic everything, including adjustable lumbar support and heated seats. With these kinds of cars, if an electrical component dies you'll likely have to take the car to the dealer to get it fixed.
      - yomkippur 4y ago
        that makes no sense, most of the issues were with the engine. Toyota/Lexus: zero issues
        symlinkk 4y ago
kmstout 4y ago
If only they would make the Unix^H^H^H^HHole Hawg [0] in the US of A. [0] http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html
bityard 4y ago
It's not actually too hard to walk into a big box store like home depot or lowes and find US made hand tools. They tend to be higher priced but quality is pretty variable. Almost all the power tools are made in china, though.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  Milwaukee is the respected name in professional power tools. It's great to see them opening a plant in the USA.
  - bityard 4y ago
    My experience with Milwaukee is that their power tools are better than average, but also much more expensive than average. I got the impression from the article that they would only be making hand tools in this new factory, not power tools. Those will still be made in China. And like I said, it's not difficult to find US-made hand tools in stores today. So Milwaukee will be competing with the likes of ChannelLock, SK, and Snap-On. (And maybe Craftsman? I don't know where they are made anymore.)
exabrial 4y ago
While I have no doubt a lot of HN'rs are handy... for those that don't know, Milwaukee is _the_ professional tool line. If you get your house framed, your driveway re-concreted, your roof redone, your toilet cleared... they contractor was probably using a Milwaukee tool. It's owned by TTI (Techtronic Tool Industry) and oddly enough is the same people that make Ryobi.
- Ndymium 4y ago
  This is in the US? I live in Finland and here Makita seems to be _the_ brand used by professionals. At least those that I've seen. Milwaukee exists but doesn't seem to be very popular.
  - angio 4y ago
    Probably depends on the EU country as well. In some places it's usually Hilti or Wurth.
  - reportingsjr 4y ago
    Makita is still incredibly popular in the US, alongside dewalt. Those are the big three people typically use.
zefhous 4y ago
Glad they're doing this, though I think there's a place for globalization too. I bought a couple USA-made Milwaukee carpenter squares a couple years ago and found the quality (accuracy) wanting, unfortunately. I hope whatever strides they make with manufacturing in the USA keep quality at the forefront and don't just end up eroding trust in the idea that USA-made means it's going to be a quality product. I ended up trying a number of bad squares from them at the hardware store and finally found a couple I was willing to buy because I like them and wanted to make it work. https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/jmv52u/square_accuracy_not_what_i_would_expect_video_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/jmv52u/squar...
lowbloodsugar 4y ago
So, a Chinese company offshoring manufacturing to the United States. How the tables have turned.
wheresmycraisin 4y ago
Makita makes power tools in Japan... for domestic Japanese customers. Makita power tools in the US (and I suspect elsewhere?) are made in China. Either Japanese customers are more patriotic, or Makita can't compete pricewise with Chinese made power tools in US market.
- gkanai 4y ago
  > Japanese customers are more patriotic There's a ton of cheap Chinese tools for sale in Japan. Makita is a nationally-recognized Japanese brand. If you want a quality tool for long-term use, one would often select a made-in-Japan Makita. The higher price is justified by the longer warranty, etc.
- zppln 4y ago
  I live in Europe and most Makita gear I have is Made in Europe (e.g. Czech Republic). I do have an impact driver that is Made in Japan, but I had to order that from Japan.
hankman86 4y ago
Non-American here: Made in USA isn’t a marker for quality. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. These days, I make an effort to not buy products that are made in the US.
- perfectstorm 4y ago
  which products/category of products do you (chose not to) buy that are made in the US?
  - hankman86 4y ago
    I do still buy services, software, entertainment, raw materials, agricultural products. Machines (including cars) or generally anything complex that requires manual assembling? Rather not. And it’s not for the lack of trying. Like that expensive KitchenAid mixer. Motor burned out after 6 months.
  - hankman86 4y ago
    US-made Teslas for one. Panels that don’t align. Doors that won’t close. Sloppy paint job. Doesn’t apply to the ones from Shanghai. Go figure.
hankman86 4y ago
Non-American here: Made in USA isn’t a marker for quality any longer. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. These days, I make an effort to not buy American products. I wish that was different, but rarely have I seen this mix of carelessness and poor quality control without any attention to detail.
- jamisteven 4y ago
  Dont care to provide any examples eh?
- zppln 4y ago
  Kind of agree. I can't say I ever associated "Made in USA" with quality, and especially not with the combination of quality and elegance I associate with other countries. That being said, I would assume most people are biased towards their own country with regards to this, or perhaps the country stamped on long-lasting stuff they grew up with.
  - stacktrust 4y ago
    How about USA-made Starrett combination squares? Is there any better, anywhere in the world? https://starrett.com/category/111001 https://starrett.com/category/111001
    - zppln 4y ago
      I have no idea. Are combination squares popular outside of the US? :)
      - stacktrust 4y ago
        That's like asking if accurate right angles are popular vs necessary in various trades :)
        zppln 4y ago
        I wasn't sure what a combination square was so I checked Wikipedia and they only had entries in English, Dutch and Spanish, so I assumed they were some kind of special case of right angle not very popular over here.
beeforpork 4y ago
Local production is always good, so this is good news. But I fail to see that 'this changes everything'. That tone of the article just feels patriotic. What will change, exactly? Did I miss some facts? As for quality, regardless of whether it's with or without power, I doubt there is a big difference in US, German, Japanese, Australian tools -- it's a matter of preference and workshop organisation (e.g., for cordless power tools, the batteries should fit what is already there). One company may have a slightly better circular saw (Festool?) the next has a slightly better plunge router (Triton?) -- whatever. But most of that is marketing and branding policy (DeWalt is for the tough and sweating man and Festool is for the clean and thoughtful engineer -- but is there a quality difference in their cordless drills?) Milwaulkee is good and in the same league and I don't see changes coming by this.
pcdoodle 4y ago
Go team Milwaukee. I love it.

318 points by stacktrust 4y ago

BooneJS 4y ago

I’ve met some Milwaukee engineers. They do a lot of computer simulation with commercial analysis tools in their design.

sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago

This reads like AI-produced ad text.

stacktrust 4y ago
The human author of the text and this well-known blog is Stuart Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd https://twitter.com/toolguyd Toolguyd has an active community (e.g. 100+ comments on this post) with real-world experience, challenging claims made by the blog.
- _Adam 4y ago
  Wow. AI is now good enough that writers are considered robot until proven human.
  - stacktrust 4y ago
    One could also draw an inference about readers, rather than writers.
- insaneirish 4y ago
  > The human author of the text and this well-known blog is Stuart Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd https://twitter.com/toolguyd I find him to be pretty reliable overall, and I believe he’s drawn ire from some manufacturers due to his honesty. He also has a PhD (in materials science IIRC), FWIW.
- tacitusarc 4y ago
  This post in particular, though, felt like a generated advertisement. There was too much repetition, too much promotion and strange wording.
unethical_ban 4y ago
"AI" has come a long way, then! It is a bit fawning, and the sans font looks like a cheap blog. The content itself doesn't feel bot-driven.
Cupertino95014 4y ago
Indeed, I felt like a human editor could have cut the length in half without sacrificing anything.
mrjin 4y ago
Not sure whether it's AI generated. But for sure it's ad.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

hope it sticks! Sears/craftsman tools were well respected before they dumped production overseas.

kube-system 4y ago
Craftsman tools were always just rebranded tools from other manufacturers. You can still buy many similar tools from the same US manufacturer with other names stamped into them. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-hand-tool-manufacturers-date-ranges.84807/ https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-hand-t...

selectodude 4y ago

Raises the bar from whom? Klein has been making tools in the USA for over a century.

colechristensen 4y ago
Perhaps for Milwaukee. Any amount of turning back offshoring manufacturing is appreciated.

silisili 4y ago

They've got a lot of bar to raise. Really all TTI hand tools have always been rather meh, so this could turn the tide. For anyone interested, apparently Craftsman also just opened a huge hand tool plant in Texas. Nice to see a little resurgence in locally sourced stuff.

Someone1234 4y ago

Milwaukee's battery tools are pretty great (M12 and M18 lines), but their hand tools aren't particularly good in my experience. So "raising the bar" for them would be just making hand tools that people want to buy over the competition. Made in the US is fine/good/whatever, but what I want to see from them is tools that are just good in their own right. I want to see their hand tools top Project Farm charts like their battery stuff. Time will tell.

nimbius 4y ago
i apprenticed on armstrong and milwaukee tools and can confirm about 15 years ago they spun off a cheap Chinese line that was complete garbage compared to the USA line. good enough for tightening the occasional bolt but fell apart under daily use.
- bombcar 4y ago
  They appear to have really stepped it up on the new hand-tools line. Not sure it is exactly worth the premium, but the ones I have are very nice (just get them on sale is all).
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    It is. I have their battery-powered framing nailer, and the same battery drives the new angle grinder I bought. Both a great tools. You don't really need to buy on sale, because they will last a long time.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Yeah the electric tools are always good, I was specifically referring to "hand tools" like sockets, wrenches, etc. I have the newer socket set in the little packout case and it's nice.
- wil421 4y ago
  Sounds like harbor freight. I bought some “chrome” sockets that worked once. The chrome fell off and the bolts were stronger than the socket metal.

_Adam 4y ago

I don't think this will make much of a difference aside from the branding advantage. The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but rather of its design. All the decisions made during that process and all the cost / performance considerations made are what determine the ultimate outcome. It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tools, but this gets the causation backwards. We wanted cheap tools and sending production overseas was the only way to get them. In fact because less is spent on labor, a better quality product can be had for the same price. So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile.

cplusplusfellow 4y ago
I tend to disagree with this in many ways. Chinese products are often made from subpar raw materials like steel, which can be much more brittle than steel sourced from US, Germany, and Mexico.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Professionally engineered products have their steel specified by physical attributes, not country of origin. If it meets the spec, and passes QA, it meets the spec. That being said, not every plant makes every type of steel. Higher end steels are the types of steels that western manufacturers can compete on, so it is often what they specialize in.
  - cplusplusfellow 4y ago
    Some countries declare steel to have certain properties and they do not have those properties. This is a certifiable fact.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Manufacturers can and do test steel for compliance and will demand remediation from suppliers if it exhibits issues. I have first hand experience.

oneplane 4y ago

I'm not entirely sure how any of this matters. Tools and what bar they have to pass are just design choices. If you design a tool to be bad, it will be bad, no matter who manufactures them or where. At the same time, if you don't have good quality assurance/control and no tests that the manufacturer has to pass, then the design doesn't matter, because the product apparently doesn't have to meet the design specification and the whole design is practically arbitrary. The only true change to the product that could happen is either a design change, or a change in available resources. Some multi-axis CNC machines are apparently not legally available everywhere in the world, so that could be a locality factor. On the other hand, plenty of companies design assemblies with complex components manufactured in various places around the world to be integrated elsewhere later on.

death_syn 4y ago

I'm interested in how these compare to quality Chinese tools like Harbor Freight's ICON line.

rascul 4y ago
Quality from Harbor Freight? I use tools for my day job and almost nothing from Harbor Freight holds up. Edit: Sorry, I should add a bit more. I certainly have not used all (or even most) Harbor Freight tools, but for the work I do, the tools I've bought from Harbor Freight, they just don't last. For a backyard mechanic or Average Joe Homeowner, they're probably just fine.
kube-system 4y ago
Icon tools are Taiwanese
- NotYourLawyer 4y ago
  Or, as the Chinese say, Chinese. Kidding, and Icon tools are quite decent.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Most Taiwanese tools are pretty good in my experience. The best deals at harbor freight IMO are the Taiwanese tools that aren’t branded “icon”
    - vgeek 4y ago
      Their Quinn/Doyle lines are frequently TW, too, and you can tell a huge difference versus Pittsburgh/Pro that are CN. I am not 100% if they bin batches differently, or if specific products switch from TW/CN and back. The TW Pittsburgh tools (some of the 72 tooth ratchets, 6pt sockets) are decent quality for their price-- but you still should feel them and inspect to get an idea (e.g. the foam used in grips for Pittsburgh pliers is junk, wobbly joints, poor finishes/grinding). The things they offer lifetime warranties on keep getting better. Some things I wonder about though. Their 200amp multi process mig welder is only $200 less than a Hobart or Lincoln-- but who knows how long HF will sell replacement parts, their warranty process for OOS items and what will actually break, so the gamble to save 10-20% doesn't seem worth it. Apex (Crescent/Gearwrench) are mostly TW and come in a little higher than HF's 2nd tier, but are solid quality for most of their hand tools.

stacktrust 4y ago

Country-of-Origin (CoO) metadata can influence some buying decisions. https://www.madeinamerica.gov/ https://www.madeinamerica.gov/ > When the U.S. government spends your tax dollars on American goods, we ensure our future is made in America. “Made in America” policies are designed to increase reliance on domestic supply chains and ultimately reduce the need to spend taxpayer dollars on foreign-made goods ... Various laws and regulations establish requirements for U.S. government procurement and assistance to support American manufacturing. https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-ma... > The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. April 2022, https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/04/ftc-charges-battery-maker-first-case-under-made-usa-labeling-rule https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2022/04/ftc-charg... > FTC charges battery maker in first case under Made in USA Labeling Rule ... the order prohibits them from making unqualified U.S.-origin claims unless they have proof that the product’s final assembly or processing – and all significant processing – takes place in the US and that all or virtually all ingredients or components are made and sourced here ... The order further requires that any qualified Made in USA claims include clear disclosures about the extent to which the product contains foreign parts, ingredients, or components, or involved foreign processing. Some ecommerce tool sites have reliable CoO metadata and search filters. https://www.harryepstein.com/ https://www.harryepstein.com/ https://madeinusatools.com/ https://madeinusatools.com/

joezydeco 4y ago

The new factory is in Milwaukee but they put a lot of money and effort into a new engineering center in downtown Chicago. I've been contacted by more than a handful of recruiters trying to fill positions there.

whilestanding 4y ago

Increasingly looking like my decision to give up bootcamping myself into a coastal tech job and come back home to the midwest and work in a factory was the correct choice long term. Plenty of job security with all the onshoring happening. Ironically I'd be worried if I was in tech about the WFH trend and out of touch entitlement of the zoom class bringing about outsourcing again. Oh and the funny money ponzi scheme collapsing + that whole ageism thing..

systemvoltage 4y ago
That's amazing, care to shed light on how you transitioned from tech to manf? What kind of things do you do?
- chmod600 4y ago
  It sounds like they didn't fully go into tech yet ("give up bootcamping"), so I'm not sure "transition" is the right word.
chaosbutters314 4y ago
seconding as someone interested in your transition.
goodoldneon 4y ago
I worked in steel plants for 7 years before becoming a software engineer. Making the switch was the best professional decision I've made. Steel is cyclical so it was so stressful when times were bad -- I survived 4 mass layoffs. There's also the constant penny pinching in every possible way, even to the point of removing the free coffee from break rooms. Now my salary is significantly higher and I deal with significantly less BS
echelon 4y ago
> with all the onshoring happening Can you expand on this? What industries, what components, and at what volume? How many jobs is this?

blt 4y ago

This is good news, but Milwaukee is primarily a power tool company. Bringing power tool manufacturing back to the USA would be much bigger news. Project Farm is a YouTube channel that reviews tools. I've noticed that most of the made-in-USA products are relatively simple - hand tools, drill bits, adhesives, lubricants, and so on. Any complex assembly that includes electronics is almost invariably made in Asia. It feels like the remaining made-in-USA tools are those where the manufacturer doesn't need to do much more than maintain some old machines and keep them fed with raw materials.

fyzix 4y ago
Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act)
- chongli 4y ago
  You don’t have to choose one. With automation you can have a small, highly paid, highly skilled workforce do the work of a much larger, low skill, low paid workforce and actually produce higher quality products at a lower price.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - happyopossum 4y ago
    So you’re picking low prices and an UNpaid workforce - cutting a workforce by 90% but doubling pay for the remaining 10% doesn’t improve a local or domestic economy.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > UNpaid workforce Automation is far from unpaid. At very least it expects you to give it food (electricity, gasoline, etc.), shelter, and healthcare (repairs and maintenance). Generally the same things that humans expect from you. Automation is significant not because it is unpaid, but because it can often do much more work for the same amount of pay.

curiousgal 4y ago

The only reason I recognized this brand is because of Project Farm who delivers insightful tool review/comparison videos. Latest was published 4 hours ago. https://youtu.be/E-Xfv-7FFNk https://youtu.be/E-Xfv-7FFNk

ajaimk 4y ago

Isn’t Milwaukee tool owned by a Chinese company? Some irony here.

loufe 4y ago
Yessir, it's a subsidiary of Techtronic Industries, headquartered in Hong Kong.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- stacktrust 4y ago
  https://archive.ph/N5pPO https://archive.ph/N5pPO > [German] Chairman Horst J. Pudwill, a former Volkswagen executive ... co-founded the company in 1985 as a maker of rechargeable battery packs for cordless tools. It then made tools for do-it-yourselfers on a contract basis for Sears Holdings Corp.'s (SHLD ) Craftsman brand, among others. Then it bought control of brands, including rights to the Ryobi name outside Japan, Royal vacuum cleaners, and Homelite garden tools. The big move was the $626 million purchase of Milwaukee Electric Tool and Germany's AEG Power Tools -- both premier brands used by professionals -- from Atlas Copco. > Techtronic can also take new tools from the conceptual stage to production in as little as six months, thanks to 24/7 collaboration among designers in Asia and Techtronic's "concept centers" in Hong Kong, South Carolina, Germany, and Britain.
tzs 4y ago
Yes. They are owned by the Hong Kong company Techtronic Industries, which also owns Homelite, Hart, Oreck, Dirt Devil, and a few others. Ryobi Power Tools and Ryobi Outdoor Equipment are also Techtronic Industries brands, under license from Ryobi. Techtronic Industries bought them from the Swedish company Atlas Copco in 2005. Here's an article on who owns what in power tools [1]. With some of the licensing deals, the same brand might actually come from two different companies. Emerson owns RIDGID and makes tools under that name, but also licenses the name to Techtronic. Emerson seems to make the non-powered RIDGID tools and Techtronic makes the powered ones. It looks like maybe 6 companies cover pretty much every power tool brand that most people in the US are likely to find at Home Depot, Lowe's, ACE, Walmart, and so on. I just wish that they would get together and agree on battery standards for their cordless power tools, so that batteries could be interchanged. My first lithium battery cordless tool was a bundle from Black & Decker of a weed whacker and a hedge trimer. Since then I've added a B&D drill and a B&D impact driver. I now need a cordless leaf blower and although it looks like some other brands would fit my needs better than B&D I'll probably go with B&D just to avoid getting another battery system (and will probably by the tool only since I have enough B&D batteries and chargers already--I don't use enough tools simultaneously to need more than the three batteries and charges I already have). There are some adapters to allow mixing batteries, for example this one allows using Black & Decker 20V batteries on Bosch 18V tools [2], so it might be feasible to branch out from B&D without having to deal with a different battery system. [1] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/ https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-... [2] https://powertoolsadapters.com/products/black-decker-20v-to-bosch-18v-battery-adapter https://powertoolsadapters.com/products/black-decker-20v-to-...

walrus01 4y ago

Anecdotal, but the Milwaukee packout modular stacking toolbox/rolling system has become wildly popular with electrical and low voltage + premises fiber contractors. Home Depot and several others have tried to clone it with their own cheaper house brands which are kinda okay, but not as good as the original.

bombcar 4y ago
Packout has gone wildly successful, far outstripping what Milwaukee thought it would hit. There's tons of stuff in the pipeline for it, too. The other "good" modular storage systems are made by the same subcontractor in Israel it seems. Though I find packout easier to disconnect compared to toughsystem2 and the systainers are nice but a bit fragile.
bradly 4y ago
Pack out is great. A great alternative to Festool’s Systainer system.

CraigJPerry 4y ago

I noticed at the most recent Milwaukee power tools event that they’re really going all in on specialist tools. This is a strong signal that they’re going to continue to cream the competition because irrational or not, people end up preferring a single battery platform, it’s not guaranteed they’ll stick to one brand for future power tool purchases but it’s extremely sticky. The Milwaukee battery power tool ecosystem started off being better than the competition by having better battery technology on the market sooner. Now they’re going all in on diversification of specialist tools. Should i buy a dewalt or makita or bosch battery power tool knowing that i can add other common tools in future or should i go Milwaukee and enjoy better battery choices, and a far far wider selection of power tools for future purchases? If i hadn’t started out with team blue, I’d be buying team red. I might switch when i need to replace batteries next.

stacktrust 4y ago
Are there adapters to migrate between some battery platforms?
- londons_explore 4y ago
  DRM is coming to batteries to prevent such adaptors.
- sbierwagen 4y ago
  Yes. But for certain vendors and voltages it can make the tool much more bulky: the Milwaukee 12v is cylindrical and inserts into the grip while Dewalt 12 is rectangular, etc.
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    Not only that but is would add an extra failure point. Hand tools are made for rough use, and I certainly wouldn't want a flimsy adapter between my tool and battery. And I am just a home gamer. I can't imagine a pro whose living depends on reliable tools rely on hacks like these. These guys buy absurdly expensive Hilti tools because this is a brand they can count on, they can spend a couple hundred bucks on a pair of proper batteries.

yomkippur 4y ago

I am seeing the following trends: - supply chain is moving to US (ex. Korean conglomerates, TSMC, Japan) - cost of goods is rising as result of Made in US - increased number of articles justifying this for improvement in quality

stacktrust 4y ago
Some German-manufactured goods have earned their price premiums with a track record of quality products.
- yomkippur 4y ago
  but why is it then so many BMW have issues? I have to go to my Benz dealership quite frequently too. Toyota/Lexus - zero issues.
  - symlinkk 4y ago
    Because BMW and Mercedes are pushing the envelope in technology. Lexus and Toyota stick with old technology. It makes their cars less pleasant to use - older infotainment, worse performance - but they are more reliable. Different values.
    - wyclif 4y ago
      They're also simpler when it comes to options. I had an Audi once and it had electronic everything, including adjustable lumbar support and heated seats. With these kinds of cars, if an electrical component dies you'll likely have to take the car to the dealer to get it fixed.
    - yomkippur 4y ago
      that makes no sense, most of the issues were with the engine. Toyota/Lexus: zero issues
      - symlinkk 4y ago

kmstout 4y ago

If only they would make the Unix^H^H^H^HHole Hawg [0] in the US of A. [0] http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html http://www.team.net/mjb/hawg.html

bityard 4y ago

It's not actually too hard to walk into a big box store like home depot or lowes and find US made hand tools. They tend to be higher priced but quality is pretty variable. Almost all the power tools are made in china, though.

wrycoder 4y ago
Milwaukee is the respected name in professional power tools. It's great to see them opening a plant in the USA.
- bityard 4y ago
  My experience with Milwaukee is that their power tools are better than average, but also much more expensive than average. I got the impression from the article that they would only be making hand tools in this new factory, not power tools. Those will still be made in China. And like I said, it's not difficult to find US-made hand tools in stores today. So Milwaukee will be competing with the likes of ChannelLock, SK, and Snap-On. (And maybe Craftsman? I don't know where they are made anymore.)

exabrial 4y ago

While I have no doubt a lot of HN'rs are handy... for those that don't know, Milwaukee is _the_ professional tool line. If you get your house framed, your driveway re-concreted, your roof redone, your toilet cleared... they contractor was probably using a Milwaukee tool. It's owned by TTI (Techtronic Tool Industry) and oddly enough is the same people that make Ryobi.

Ndymium 4y ago
This is in the US? I live in Finland and here Makita seems to be _the_ brand used by professionals. At least those that I've seen. Milwaukee exists but doesn't seem to be very popular.
- angio 4y ago
  Probably depends on the EU country as well. In some places it's usually Hilti or Wurth.
- reportingsjr 4y ago
  Makita is still incredibly popular in the US, alongside dewalt. Those are the big three people typically use.

zefhous 4y ago

Glad they're doing this, though I think there's a place for globalization too. I bought a couple USA-made Milwaukee carpenter squares a couple years ago and found the quality (accuracy) wanting, unfortunately. I hope whatever strides they make with manufacturing in the USA keep quality at the forefront and don't just end up eroding trust in the idea that USA-made means it's going to be a quality product. I ended up trying a number of bad squares from them at the hardware store and finally found a couple I was willing to buy because I like them and wanted to make it work. https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/jmv52u/square_accuracy_not_what_i_would_expect_video_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MilwaukeeTool/comments/jmv52u/squar...

lowbloodsugar 4y ago

So, a Chinese company offshoring manufacturing to the United States. How the tables have turned.

wheresmycraisin 4y ago

Makita makes power tools in Japan... for domestic Japanese customers. Makita power tools in the US (and I suspect elsewhere?) are made in China. Either Japanese customers are more patriotic, or Makita can't compete pricewise with Chinese made power tools in US market.

gkanai 4y ago
> Japanese customers are more patriotic There's a ton of cheap Chinese tools for sale in Japan. Makita is a nationally-recognized Japanese brand. If you want a quality tool for long-term use, one would often select a made-in-Japan Makita. The higher price is justified by the longer warranty, etc.
zppln 4y ago
I live in Europe and most Makita gear I have is Made in Europe (e.g. Czech Republic). I do have an impact driver that is Made in Japan, but I had to order that from Japan.

hankman86 4y ago

Non-American here: Made in USA isn’t a marker for quality. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. These days, I make an effort to not buy products that are made in the US.

perfectstorm 4y ago
which products/category of products do you (chose not to) buy that are made in the US?
- hankman86 4y ago
  I do still buy services, software, entertainment, raw materials, agricultural products. Machines (including cars) or generally anything complex that requires manual assembling? Rather not. And it’s not for the lack of trying. Like that expensive KitchenAid mixer. Motor burned out after 6 months.
- hankman86 4y ago
  US-made Teslas for one. Panels that don’t align. Doors that won’t close. Sloppy paint job. Doesn’t apply to the ones from Shanghai. Go figure.

hankman86 4y ago

Non-American here: Made in USA isn’t a marker for quality any longer. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. These days, I make an effort to not buy American products. I wish that was different, but rarely have I seen this mix of carelessness and poor quality control without any attention to detail.

jamisteven 4y ago
Dont care to provide any examples eh?
zppln 4y ago
Kind of agree. I can't say I ever associated "Made in USA" with quality, and especially not with the combination of quality and elegance I associate with other countries. That being said, I would assume most people are biased towards their own country with regards to this, or perhaps the country stamped on long-lasting stuff they grew up with.
- stacktrust 4y ago
  How about USA-made Starrett combination squares? Is there any better, anywhere in the world? https://starrett.com/category/111001 https://starrett.com/category/111001
  - zppln 4y ago
    I have no idea. Are combination squares popular outside of the US? :)
    - stacktrust 4y ago
      That's like asking if accurate right angles are popular vs necessary in various trades :)
      - zppln 4y ago
        I wasn't sure what a combination square was so I checked Wikipedia and they only had entries in English, Dutch and Spanish, so I assumed they were some kind of special case of right angle not very popular over here.

beeforpork 4y ago

Local production is always good, so this is good news. But I fail to see that 'this changes everything'. That tone of the article just feels patriotic. What will change, exactly? Did I miss some facts? As for quality, regardless of whether it's with or without power, I doubt there is a big difference in US, German, Japanese, Australian tools -- it's a matter of preference and workshop organisation (e.g., for cordless power tools, the batteries should fit what is already there). One company may have a slightly better circular saw (Festool?) the next has a slightly better plunge router (Triton?) -- whatever. But most of that is marketing and branding policy (DeWalt is for the tough and sweating man and Festool is for the clean and thoughtful engineer -- but is there a quality difference in their cordless drills?) Milwaulkee is good and in the same league and I don't see changes coming by this.

pcdoodle 4y ago

Go team Milwaukee. I love it.