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Facebook Dating

432 points by timdavila 7y ago

timdavila 7y ago
And it looks like they're already anticipating your privacy questions: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/privacy-matters-dating/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/privacy-matters-dating/
- gjulianm 7y ago
  > That means we won’t create a Facebook Dating profile for your account unless you specifically choose to create one. Does not specify if they will be data mining my profile for dating-related analytics. > Your Dating activity, such as people you like or pass on, won’t be shared with anyone outside Dating. What does 'anyone' mean? Do they refer to other users or do they also close the door to advertisers to show you ads based on who you like? Also, why is Europe outside of the first launch? Does it have anything to do with GDPR? It's just suspicious. Each time Facebook comes closer to the Black Mirror version of it...
- DCKing 7y ago
  I know this is cynical (my Facebook bias is showing, I know), but I find it somewhat telling that they've delayed launching in any country that has implemented GDPR or a derivative of it. I mean, I get that such laws may be a complication from a compliance perspective. There's a small chance this is due to their legal processes, not because of product reasons. But FB not being ready for modern privacy law when launching a product in 2019 makes me wonder what shenanigans they need to cover up before a European launch.
lerie 7y ago
what a horrible idea for both facebook and its users
- dang 7y ago
  Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
dannykwells 7y ago
What could possibly go wrong??
- bdcravens 7y ago
  Given that they've had very little accountability (both legally and in terms of the usual business KPIs) so far, the followup is: ..., and if it does, so what?
- false-mirror 7y ago
  Wild no one is addressing the floodgate of harassment this is opening. At least when one is harassed on another app they can just close it or delete your account and the harasser has little recourse. Given their history, FB will likely just let this mess fester
floatingatoll 7y ago
The list of supported countries does not seem to include any GDPR country.
- MrsPeaches 7y ago
  At the end of the list: > It will be in Europe by early 2020.
yalogin 7y ago
I don’t get their strategy. Why are they patching on to Facebook like this? Would this dating feature not be better strategically in Instagram? Facebook is rotten in the minds of users but IG is not yet.
- buro9 7y ago
  Dating makes money, Tinder is successful, so Facebook are leaving money on the table... or worse, letting someone else take the money from the table... if they don't do dating. Of course, the pool of potential people you can date is "those on Facebook", so that's hilarious and compounds existing problems with echo chambers.
  - jsjw7sbw 7y ago
    I would love a date people NOT on facebook app.
    - magduf 7y ago
      What about people like me, who have a FB account but never really do anything with it? The only things I use mine for are 1) using FB Messenger (lite) to communicate with some other people who use that, and 2) selling some of my crap on FB Marketplace.
  - marcusjt 7y ago
    IMHO it's not about Facebook directly making money from dating subscriptions, it's about getting back a chunk of the user engagement that Facebook has lost to dating apps, i.e. adding dating gives users another reason to stay in the Facebook app, helping Facebook stay relevant in their lives (and spend less time in other apps), plus of course increase session durations & other positive metrics which help company reports, and ultimately derive income by showing more ads to users, likely within the dating experience itself (eventually, if not intially).
- AgloeDreams 7y ago
  That is exactly why, FB is private. IG is cool and public, lots of people don't cross the two and tinder is in with the younger crowd. They are betting on this helping FB rather than driving the feature. FB knows that anything they make will be used by millions so at this point they are playing a different, longer game to try to drive general social impression. They know they are the default for a lot of things. Facebook's primary concerns and biggest fears are towards the impression of the company, privacy and 'cool' factor with the young crowd.
matchbok 7y ago
FB has clearly run out of ideas.
- strikelaserclaw 7y ago
  They are just a big company that utilizes their network advantage ruthlessly, copying, buying etc...
- bdcravens 7y ago
  Have they had new ideas? Seems to me they just take existing ones and just execute better and/or leverage their network advantage.
donatj 7y ago
This seems like something they should have added ten plus years ago, when their demo was primarily college kids. I know many people who were clamoring for it at the time. It would have been an obvious addition as dating and relationships were a large part of the reason a lot of people used Facebook. I half suspect this is an attempt to pull college kids back into Facebook. I think they missed their chance with this by a long shot.
- roland35 7y ago
  I agree! It seemed like a no-brainer back around 2010 but now with all of the bad press it seems less desirable to put your dating life on Facebook.
  - kylel 7y ago
    This was a while ago, but I think in its early days Tinder was just an app on Facebook where you would “like” people on your friends list. If they “liked” you back the app would indicate a match. I always thought this was a really cool feature, and I wish they kept it. It felt more personal.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      I think you mean https://www.reciprocity.io/ https://www.reciprocity.io/ which is unrelated to Tinder.
    - mdrzn 7y ago
      I think you mean Bang with Friends
- jrnichols 7y ago
  i agree with that. it almost seems like they're throwing their weight into an already way overcrowded market. but it's still too early to tell - how is Facebook Marketplace doing against 5mile/LetItGo/etc? Facebook's massive user base might make this a success. Depending on whether or not there's a fee involved.
JacKTrocinskI 7y ago
Date your friends! :D On a more serious note though, why not? If their mission is to help connect people and this helps connect people that otherwise had trouble dating and this does so in a meaningful way then sounds good to me. Privacy is always a concern no matter what the app/site/technology.
- johnisgood 7y ago
  The article says this: Facebook Dating won’t match you with friends, unless you choose to use Secret Crush and you both add each other to your list. All of your Dating activity will stay in Facebook Dating. It won’t be shared to the rest of Facebook.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    > It won’t be shared to the rest of Facebook. "Just like your 2FA phone number won't be used for anything except 2FA." - Facebook /s
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - henrikschroder 7y ago
    > unless you choose to use Secret Crush Add all your friends to Secret Crush. Watch who matched you. "Sorry buddy, I wasn't really using the thing, I just added everyone, but thanks for letting me know you like me!" Idiots. And this is why the shared identity is a terrible idea for dating sites. You want dating profiles to be throwaway, and you want it to be hard for your friends to find your dating persona for this reason! But of course Facebook doesn't understand the need to keep secrets from (some of) your friends.
    - chillacy 7y ago
strikelaserclaw 7y ago
Finally, all the tracking they've done on their users over many years could yield the best matching algorithm :|
- djsumdog 7y ago
  It can't be any worse than OKCs.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  Dating sucks, but I'm still more uncomfortable with the idea of somebody's initial meeting being reduced to matching algorithms.
  - strikelaserclaw 7y ago
    In my opinion, it might actually prove to be better than letting people decide based on super superficial attributes on dating profiles. Online dating completely sucks, guys have no choice, girls have too many bad choices.
    - ssully 7y ago
      There are other dating apps outside of Tinder and Bumble. I am married, so I don't use them personally, but my friends use/used Tinder/Bumble for more casual dating/hook ups. When they were looking for something a little more serious they would use something like OK Cupid to provide matches based on similar interests. Either way, I don't see how online dating will ever not suck. I have no clue how it is in gay communities, but I do not see straight people's problems ever being different: i.e. Women having to deal with the ocean of terrible men, and Men having the problem of trying to stand out in that ocean (and in some of my male friends cases, not being so picky).
      - hombre_fatal 7y ago
        Online dating just makes obvious the reality of actual dating. For example, HNers talk about online dating as though they think they aren't being sized up in real life based on their looks and how they dress. And that it wasn't until Tinder that people started doing this.
peterwwillis 7y ago
It doesn't seem to do anything that a normal "Dating" app does. It's just a private friends list. You can already like and message people you have a crush on, without this. Who is this for? "Secret Crush lets you match with people you already know on Facebook and/or Instagram." Because what people have been clamoring for is to know which of their friends like them more than is mutual, so they can feel weird. "You can choose to see other people who are using Facebook Dating that fit your preferences within the groups you are part of and the events you have attended or will be attending." 'Oh look, this person at this upcoming event is looking for a date! I'll go hit on them in person without messaging them.'
- magduf 7y ago
  >Because what people have been clamoring for is to know which of their friends like them more than is mutual, so they can feel weird. I haven't read the article, but I'm guessing this is probably a typical 2-way match algorithm, or else it really doesn't make sense. i.e., both friends have to put the other in their "secret crush" list for it to inform them that they have a crush on each other. What they really need is a "secret crush for FWB only" list: what if I have a friend that I'd be happy to be FWB with, but have zero interest in a serious relationship, but don't want to broach that topic with her for fear that it would mess up our friendship? This would be a perfect use for FB.
  - FillardMillmore 7y ago
    >What they really need is a "secret crush for FWB only" list: what if I have a friend that I'd be happy to be FWB with, but have zero interest in a serious relationship, but don't want to broach that topic with her for fear that it would mess up our friendship? This would be a perfect use for FB. Now there's an idea!
    - peterwwillis 7y ago
      So just straight up ask the person "Have you ever thought about us hooking up?". If they don't want it, they'll just decline, and you can both get over it. Or they'll think you're a creep, and you won't be friends anymore, which is probably for the best seeing as you were harboring secret desires for this person. Either way, being up-front and honest will have a better result than letting Facebook connect you because you were too scared to broach the subject.
estsauver 7y ago
I think this might be a (relatively) rare strategy error for Facebook. If the success of Snapchat, LinkedIn, and also the separate WhatsApp/Instagram properties proves anything, it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large. If I was facebook, I would very explicitly announce this as a spin out project, under a different name and brand. While HN has a good knowledge of the ultimate parent owners of apps, I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp. Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.
- tryitnow 7y ago
  I agree, but I think the "dating self" and the "facebook self" overlap a lot for most people. It's also important for a dating app to have critical mass. Almost everyone is on FB, only a fraction of those people are on IG.
  - jonknee 7y ago
    Among all people sure, but among people in the dating demographic? I would not be surprised at all if more people in prime dating ages are on IG than FB (especially in an active manner, do young people post on FB in any real way?).
    - jacobush 7y ago
      I agree for I what I assume you mean by prime dating ages, but think there are more prime dating ages which are not so "prime" in other ways, if you will.
    - StrangeDoctor 7y ago
      I think you’ve gone astray equating young with prime dating, all you need is like seeking like, and both using FB is probably a good start.
      - jonknee 7y ago
mberning 7y ago
They did it with marketplace and took a very significant bite out of places like craigslist. I’m sure they can do the same for dating.
- btbuildem 7y ago
  It seems super broken (search??), but somehow people use it in droves.
  - johnmaguire2013 7y ago
    I've noticed search is totally broken in the mobile browser, but works pretty well on the desktop & phone apps. I bet few Facebookers don't have the app installed.
- johnmaguire2013 7y ago
  I did not expect Marketplace to take off and now it's a must-check before Craigslist.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Not only that, but as much as I like to bad-mount FB, I will say that when I post stuff on FB Marketplace to sell, I never get people saying they want to buy it from me with a cashier's check. There are a lot of flakes, however, but that's the case with CL as well, but I've never run across a scammer, whereas on CL I get scammers all the time with the stupid cashier's check scam.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      This is totally regional and item category specific. Anything primarily bought sold by the people that write "I check email once a week and don't text so call me" in their CL ads is not going to be on marketplace.
      - magduf 7y ago
TallGuyShort 7y ago
"Secret Crush Lists" Yeah that doesn't sound like something that'll end up on Pastebin.
- erikig 7y ago
  When the largest accompanying FB news headline is: "Over 400 million Facebook users' phone numbers exposed" this feels like the most poorly timed product launch.
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Don't underestimate Facebook. I am sure they have stats that show that almost no one knows. Because almost no one knows - not even most IT professionals. There is also something I call "sulking to the giant" (my made up term) - I've seen many times people say "I would never tell Facebook my name/city/age/..." only to do it a year later.
    - lapnitnelav 7y ago
      Yeah, I don't know about underestimating them, I've been chatting back and forth with our FB account manager regarding our business needs for something in their Ad biz. Turns out, they can't deliver on this pretty universal feature (even Twitter has it), so huh yeah, let's talk about how great they are again.
      - TomMarius 7y ago
        I would guess that their business analysts are separate from their development team.
  - deminature 7y ago
    I assume they're thinking the groups of people that read security disclosure articles and those that would use FB dating are disjoint. They're probably not wrong.
    - 7y ago
AlphaWeaver 7y ago
>The consolidation of social activities (such as the process of dating, dating apps, and the network effects that result) into these walled gardens makes being a conscientious objector of social media more challenging each time they announce a feature like this. I and others don't want to use Facebook. Please don't leave us with no choice. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19790889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19790889
- gtirloni 7y ago
  > I and others don't want to use Facebook. Please don't leave us with no choice What? You don't want to use then don't use it. That's your choice.
  - smacktoward 7y ago
    Literally the entire lesson of the social networking age is that it's not entirely your choice. If everyone you know is on Facebook, and everyone you want to date is on Facebook, all the events you want to attend are organized on Facebook, etc., you have very strong pressures on you to use Facebook, whether you want to or not.
    - briandear 7y ago
      Nonsense. Just don't use Facebook. Send email or use iMessage/Signal whatevs. If you are "left out" -- then those people probably cared about your involvement only superficially. As far as people you want to date -- how weird would it be to actually talk to the person? You'd stand out from the crowd specifically because you aren't like everybody else. Grow a spine.
      - SkyPuncher 7y ago
        Not using Facebook is fine for direct conversations. It really isn't an option in larger groups. ---- Here's a great example. I go on a canoe weekend with a bunch of old friend each year. Some years it has an upwards of 100 people attending. I know about 10 to 20 people, including the hosts, very well. The rest are either acquaintances, second connections, or friends/family of the hosts. Everything gets done via a Facebook event because it's the easiest way for the hosts to communicate with a group of 100 people. A few people "refuse" to use Facebook so all communication with them about the event has to be done on a secondary channel. Sometimes those people accidentally get left out of important notices. It's nothing malicious, just the hosts having jobs and busy lives and forget about a few odd ones out.
bfrog 7y ago
It's facebook official, its time to get the hell off facebook
- bdcravens 7y ago
  With everything they've done, dating is the line they shouldn't have crossed?
papito 7y ago
Cool. I think I have a chance with all those wives of my friends that used to be young and single.
_pmf_ 7y ago
Money, dating and social credit system in one place. How convenient.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dlivingston 7y ago
  It strikes me as similar to the 'super apps' in China, a la WeChat.
29_29 7y ago
April fools? Had to check my calendar
- randomdata 7y ago
  I noticed the Dating tab show up a couple of months ago, so I'm only surprised to learn it wasn't already official.
Diti 7y ago
Dating platforms are incentivized to keep the client (whether they are a paying customer, or an individual giving them passive income through advertising) from leaving the platform. What do you think is in Facebook’s interest? You leaving the platform to live a satisfying love life?
- ken 7y ago
  I hate to say it, but this is actually an advantage of FB here. Once you're no longer dating, you'll still use their platform, just like you did before. They have no incentive to keep you in the dating pool.
  - badwolf 7y ago
    This has been my thought on why FB will probably do fantastic in this space.
unethical_ban 7y ago
I am shocked by the ignorance here. "Why would Facebook do this? Nobody trusts them, they've run out of ideas, etc." They're the largest social network in the world, and this site is a filter bubble of privacy advocates and relatively anti-social people. Do you truly believe there isn't a market on Facebook for dating? Do you really think Facebook brand is universally tarnished in some way that this isn't a good move for a company with such power and money on hand? Come on. I'm angry at myself for not predicting this. Although back in the day, it was allowable to search for people by a lot more filters, such as town, interest, school, etc. to find people. Now it's doing it for you.
- kgraves 7y ago
  > I am shocked by the ignorance here. "Why would Facebook do this? Nobody trusts them, they've run out of ideas, etc." I agree. The majority of HN users are 0.0001% of FB users and it clearly isn't built for them. As a response to the quote, FB can do this not only "because they can", but also they are taking on the Match Group family of apps (Tinder, OKC, etc.) This was inevitable whether the tech crowd or the privacy parade likes it or not.
- magduf 7y ago
  I really fail to see how trying to get into the dating market for 40-80 year old right-wing conservatives is really going to help them. The 20-somethings don't use FB, and sure as hell aren't going to use it for dating, and the 30-somethings probably aren't either.
  - kgraves 7y ago
    > The 20-somethings don't use FB, and sure as hell aren't going to use it for dating, and the 30-somethings probably aren't either. Facebook has been known (and are starting to) take over their family of apps. Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger are already used by the 20 somethings and all the founders are gone so they have full control over them. I wouldn't be surprised that they would shower features into it's family of apps that already exist on FB. (See Stories)
- briandear 7y ago
indiantinker 7y ago
Interesting choice of pilot countries/regions.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  Probably choosing countries with fewer regulations for faster time to market (they do say, for example, they're coming to Europe in 2020)
bengotow 7y ago
Man what a shame, if they weren't a decade late (both in terms of competition and in terms of folks having trust in Facebook), this could have been cool.
puranjay 7y ago
Is it bad that my first reaction to this headline was "yikes!"
rdtwo 7y ago
This will be successful, the #1 cheating app will also be the #1 dating app it’s a no brainer
booleandilemma 7y ago
I’m still waiting for LinkedIn dating.
- rcpt 7y ago
  or Blind
flr03 7y ago
In a way this arrives extremely late, and minus the secret crush thing it's very much copying Tinder's design. On the other hand I don't see the online dating market collapsing anytime soon.
carlosdp 7y ago
So, I'd use this, as someone who has trouble getting matches on dating apps usually. Facebook already has the largest issue for dating apps solved: the network chicken-and-egg problem. Dating apps are non-exclusive, I have 3 installed on my phone and using an additional one isn't a big deal. If they are able to provide a differentiated feature set from other apps because they can better leverage FB interest data, I don't see why this couldn't work. Is anyone else on this thread even in the dating scene right now? I really don't see how this is a plainly bad idea.
- anonymousjunior 7y ago
  Does anyone actually have up to date interest data on FB these days? I can't remember the last time I "liked" an interest or artist page. All of the data in the system now is leftover from when I was like 15 using the platform (24 now and yes, actively dating). Only thing I actively use FB for these days is messenger and fantasy football shit talking groups, which are all "private".
  - carlosdp 7y ago
    I was more talking about the "dark" data they collect from our surfing over the internet =P Not great, but it could potentially help with this one particular case.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  Also, what people on HN seem to be missing is that with dating, I don't care where I get my "leads" from. I can be using every single dating app at once, so what do I care about clicking "enable dating" on Facebook? Facebook gave me a notification to try FB Dating the other week. I clicked it, chose my pics, and was on the meat market immediately, receiving phone notifications like "Karen liked you" just like any other dating app. I click it, view their profile, and start messaging them. Being linked to Facebook profiles, I also have more trust in the other party which is how Tinder started out. HN rants so consistently about dating apps that I think it's mostly just ranting about dating in general. Facebook is ubiquitous in Mexico where I live. And when I go back to the States and meet people 20-35 downtown, I have yet to find people who aren't on Facebook. I think HNers vastly overestimate the exodus from Facebook, if there is one, just because we like to cover FB's privacy issues here on HN.
js2 7y ago
> Starting today, you can choose to opt into Facebook Dating and create a Dating profile (separate from your main profile) if you’re 18 years or older and have downloaded the most recent version of Facebook So this is mobile-only? Exclusive of WhatsApp/Instagram, isn't that a first for FB?
madrox 7y ago
Seeing something like this come out of Facebook makes me glad to be married. Is it a good idea for them? Yes. Will people use it? Probably. Is it a little creepy to imagine a company that’s already under constant scrutiny about how it handles your data to also know more about your dating life? Absolutely. That said, Facebook is already out with 20-somethings. Is this really going to used by that audience? Or is this replacing Yahoo Personals for 40-somethings?
- kgraves 7y ago
  They already own Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger. If they can't get them on FB, the features will trickle down towards the family of apps, maybe under a different app name or feature.
  - madrox 7y ago
    Instagram Dating or WhatsApp Dating actually sounds hilarious and I want to see those.
francisofascii 7y ago
Reminds me of this dialog from the Social Network movie: Relationship Status, Interested In. This is what drives life at college. Are you having sex or aren’t you. It’s why people take certain classes, and sit where they sit, and do what they do, and at its, um, center, you know, that’s what the Facebook is gonna be about. People are gonna log on because after all the cake and watermelon there’s a chance they’re actually gonna, (get laid), meet a girl. Yes.
- par 7y ago
  That movie, like this sentiment about facebook, is now 9 years old.
defnmacro 7y ago
If I was an exec at Tinder what do you do here? There's nothing exactly that differentiates FB Dating from Tinder and I can't think of an USP differentiating the two, except that FB Dating may be more convenient. Kind of an interesting precedent though that FB decided to build this in-house rather than buy Tinder as well.
- marcusjt 7y ago
  >There's nothing exactly that differentiates FB Dating from Tinder and I can't think of an USP differentiating the two, except that FB Dating may be more convenient. I couldn't disagree more - Tinder shows you pretty much random people apart from some incredibly basic criteria (age, gender, proximity) whereas FB has the potential to be massively more effective at matching you given that it has a huge wealth of information (e.g. liked posts, pages, etc) to draw upon to select candidate matches to show you. It may naively assume that similarity is always good and that isn't necessarily true so hopefully their algorithm isn't so naive. Either way, so FB's dating experience could completely destroy Tinder unless they get their ass in gear quickly and deliver a more more success-focused user experience, right now Tinder doesn't seem to care at all about match quality, nor eliminating fake & dormant profiles.
- SkyPuncher 7y ago
  I'd be blasting FB for the privacy issues and reinforcing Tinder as a privacy conscientious company (whether or not that's true, I'm not really sure).
decebalus1 7y ago
Heh.. This may actually work and I'm surprised it wasn't implemented sooner. Back in the mid 2000's, I was on Hi5. So were a lot of people where I lived. Although a social network, everyone I knew was using it solely for dating. I got dozens of good dates from Hi5. It was pretty awesome.
FillardMillmore 7y ago
It raises the question, where is the line drawn for FB users of things they will refuse to share with Facebook and/or allow Facebook to control?
jeffrogers 7y ago
(now wishing HN had a downvote button)
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  You want to downvote the story, because you don't like what it's about, rather than you think it's bad reporting?
akerro 7y ago
> It takes the work out of creating a dating profile and gives you a more authentic look at who someone is. It feels like most people post too many fake pictures, news and crap on their profiles and this isn't going to be a good idea. "Look guys, I'm happy on Virgin Islands, like this!" (also on Prozac)
ken 7y ago
"a Dating profile (separate from your main profile)" "Secret Crush lists" "All of your Dating activity will stay in Facebook Dating" "Feel safe by sharing details" I don't know how anyone who's read a news article about Facebook in the past year (or browsed the web and glanced at the ads they get) can believe any of this.
- grecy 7y ago
  I actually laughed out loud when I read this. What a sad joke/lie.
blackflame7000 7y ago
Now facebook can really start to build a social credit score for everyone.
- dymk 7y ago
  That's a cheap jab, care to elaborate?
  - blackflame7000 7y ago
    It's not a jab, it's seeing someone for who they really are. Facebook hasn't suddenly decided to play cupid out of the goodness of their heart, they now have a system to effectively rank their user's social scores based on things like swipes and messages. Most of the Match.com apps do the same, but the scale of facebook puts most of them to shame. The fact is that they aren't offering a new way of dating, just a new way of gathering more valuable data on you. After all, who wants to waste time advertising to someone with no friends or influence when they can promote to the person getting swipes left and right.
Kalium 7y ago
What I find most interesting about this is that a dating application finally gets away from the core business model conflict. Facebook doesn't need users to stay on the Dating application to be profitable.
eddof13 7y ago
Just saying, having used Facebook Dating in Mexico where it's been for a while, much better return than on Tinder
nasalgoat 7y ago
This has been live in Canada for some time in a "beta" incarnation, and from a purely product standpoint it is terrible. The UI is just bad. You cannot browse profiles, you must say "yes" or "no" and the decision is final. If you scroll down to read a profile more, when you pass, it leaves you in the same scroll spot in the next profile. This is User Interface 101 level stuff. The list of problems goes on from there. Everything about it says "throwaway add-on" that they haven't spent any real time on optimizing. When originally announced, Match stock dropped 25% on the news, only to bounce back. I don't see this product really making a big dent in the Match bottom line.
- haunter 7y ago
  >The UI is just bad. You cannot browse profiles, you must say "yes" or "no" and the decision is final. So Tinder?
  - nasalgoat 7y ago
    Yes, but on Tinder the profiles will re-appear later when you go back to swipe again. Other apps allow general browsing and better photo viewing too.
    - dymk 7y ago
      Wait, are you saying that Tinder will show you accounts that you've swiped left on at a later date? I have not found that to be the case.
      - nasalgoat 7y ago
        Yes, I've personally seen memorable profiles come back later. It's one way to make the app seem busier with more people.
        dymk 7y ago
        Interesting. I wonder if this is people deleting and re-creating accounts? Or spam accounts using the same images?
spyckie2 7y ago
Whereas tinder, instagram, and others value add is from their content, the value of Facebook (the platform) has always been the network. Facebook as a company has always been chasing after content. This is because content has a direct and clear monetization strategy whereas helping people make use of their network is difficult to make money from. Well, it shows - $40bn in revenue, 80% of it in ads. Helping people to use their network effectively is basically charity work to Facebook. How are you going to at-scale monetize that out? The answer: you don't. But with some irony, after chasing content for over a decade, I think Facebook is now in a position to do some charity work. Similar to Google, who saturated their ad team's return on value and has it's employees working on moonshots all day, Facebook can now afford to sit on their content engines and attack problem spaces that are harder to monetize and solve but provide more meaningful value. Long story short, I think it's the right time for Facebook's hayday to sneak up on us because it can quietly focus on adding real value via our networks without chasing after money from them. I really like the idea of Facebook Dating, because 1) it already has the network and doesn't need to build it, and 2) it doesn't need to make money. Most dating apps suffer under the pressure to make money and grow. For a dating app to grow it has to focus on building cohesive user bases that find value in each other and eventually creates its own ecosystems that damages the experience for others (i.e. hookup culture). While Facebook Dating might still have some of that, I could see it ending up as a more serious dating platform because it doesn't need to focus on user growth. How would you monetize Marketplace? Facebook Dating? The answer is: you don't care that much, throw some ads on it and let it cover costs. 7-8 years ago when people were searching for Facebook's killer money printing machine, these projects would have a lot of pressure to make a lot of money. Nowadays, sheltered by the content engine that Facebook has amassed, these projects can focus on providing immediate and strong value through Facebook's core benefit (it's network) and hold off on how to make money for a couple of years. Sounds familiar? It sounds a lot like Gmail.
mabermoske 7y ago
If I look at who I know that is still using fb it is almost exclusively older people. I'm 33 and deleted my fb account, almost every person I know younger than me either did the same or was never on in the first place. I see this being huge for older adults who are divorced or widowed, those are the people still using fb and I think would be happy to use this service.
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  Counter-anecdote: I'm 30 and have yet to meet someone in my dating/friend range (20-35) that never had Facebook here in Mexico or home in Austin. I'd be curious if you're socializing in some sort of anti-FB bubble or actually have a sample size of like 5 people when you consider the people you actually know this info about.
  - jessicalondon 7y ago
    Willing to date 10 years younger, but only 5 years higher. Interesting.
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      Controversial in 2019, but youth is a perk if I get to choose with an "age range" slider. Also, women 35+ are usually on a different clock than I am. I'm happy to share more insight as a man dating at 30 if you want, but just ask.
      - simias 7y ago
        This is veering wildly off topic but I'm curious: don't you think people in their early 20's would also be on a wildly "different clock"? I'm only slightly older than you are and through a weird series of event ended up frequenting a WhatsApp group populated mainly by people in their early 20s and the culture shock is pretty large. People in their early 20's are generally students, they have different priorities, lower incomes, different cultural differences etc... It seems easier to find 40yo who share my interests and my lifestyle in my experience.
bitL 7y ago
Didn't Facebook originally start as a "reductionistic" way for nerds around Mark to connect with "secret crushes" at Harvard? Didn't YouTube start as a dating site at UIUC as well, for pretty much the same reasons?
kart23 7y ago
Can anyone tell me how to actually opt in and use dating? I cant find it in the app on android.
hmmmhmmmhmmm 7y ago
Facebook has 10+ years of data about people and their friendships and relationships unfolding through time (tagged pictures, relationship status, updates, likes, etc.). It's hard to tell if they've built and deployed such a model for proposing matches, but this could be their killer feature. Superficially, this product seems no different from existing data apps.
- Lramseyer 7y ago
  That was what I thought! I’m a pretty anti-Facebook person, and I don’t have a profile anymore. But facebook has data on you both explicit and implicit. They can predict your mental health state, socioeconomic status, and they have tons of data on the formation of relationships and marriages. They can even predict who you like and who you’re going to date next. As creepy as that data is, why shouldn’t they use it to actually connect people who they would predict to be compatible? A huge problem for online dating platforms is making good suggestions, and Facebook is probably the most well equipped to address it.
malloreon 7y ago
requiring installation of the FB app is a nonstarter.
malicioususer11 7y ago
Facebook had better add an "Extremely Polyamorous" option to their relationship status pulldown or this will fail miserably. :)
xzmmd 7y ago
I can't believe the hero image does not feature an interracial and/or homosexual couple... I've come to expect more from you, west coast
b_tterc_p 7y ago
It sounds to me like a primary use case of this would be... cheating... Unlike other dating platforms, this one is integrated with your supposedly up to date profile. Being able to set up a low risk secret crush with a known friend seems likely to be popular to those interested in doing so. That is to say, a person who wants to cheat has no problem having a Facebook profile, so there’s not a need for anonymity against being found by known acquaintances like you might expect on other platforms.
- empath75 7y ago
  Yeah, this is going to break up a lot of marriages, imo. People are going to get suspicious of their spouses facebook activity in a way that they aren't currently.
  - phil248 7y ago
    Not to be pedantic, but websites don't break up marriages. Married people break up marriages.
- vermarish 7y ago
  There's no way Facebook would allow someone to use Facebook Dating while their relationship status is set to "married" or "in a relationship." That leaves only alternate accounts as an option for someone using their dating to cheat, but I dont think Facebook has much of an alternate account culture. Unless someone has an account for personal use and an account for "work" use that they cheat with? And their work friends list are all part of the pool for the Facebook dating protocol? That would get real messy.
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    I look forward to seeing if your first statement is true.
    - b_tterc_p 7y ago
      Seems like it was false! You can use this while married on Facebook
sureste 7y ago
Off-topic, but the number of times people misspell Colombia as Columbia is very high and I'm (more) disappointed in FB for letting it pass.
- copperx 7y ago
  It grinds my gears too. Mnemonic for anyone that struggles with it: ColOmbia is the cOuntry. ColUmbia is the shUttle (or University).
  - twic 7y ago
    Or: Columbia is named after Christopher Columbus Colombia is named after Cristoforo Colombo If you can remember which countries traditionally mostly speak English, and which mostly spoke a Romance language, you have a shot at getting it right.
calimac 7y ago
Facebook can't resist the trove of data and traffic the dating app will deliver. Those intelligent enough to understand must lead the sheep to safety. Facebook should be boycotted by everyone who understands their corporate culture well enough to know that they are a predatory data company.
nikolay 7y ago
All dating apps target millennials... because they are developed by millennials. When will SV get for once that they don't get their demographic as they have nothing in common with people 40+. For example, except Microsoft, no other SV company gets families. I was surprised by the idiotic family support Google offers in their ecosystem and especially Google One. Same with Spotify, Netflix, etc. Facebook with their "family" support of children less than 13 is totally idiotic as well (scrapbooks or whatever they call it) - and so is their "dating" app! They just don't innovate these days - they just copy competitors in sick hopes to make people come back.
- electricslpnsld 7y ago
  > All dating apps target millennials Millennials are almost in their 40s now! The prime dating app market (low to mid 20s) is now Gen Z.
  - nikolay 7y ago
    True about millennials and Gen Z, but "millennial" now acquired the meaning of "ungrounded young people". It depends on what you call a "market". Real dating apps charge fees and don't have hidden agendas like Facebook (rule the world and sell your data to advertisers) - that's what I call a "dating app market". Sifting thru photos is not really dating - especially Instagram and Facebook photos, which, in most cases, are twisted reality.
  - sushid 7y ago
    As a millennial a few years shy of hitting 30, I find your rounding up a bit too generous. That aside, I’d still say that the prime Tinder age group is millennials.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
bambax 7y ago
> Facebook Dating makes it easier to find love through what you like I don't like Facebook... No dating for me! Seriously, Facebook seems to be a tool for self-advertising (look at my wonderful holiday photos), while dating is more personal/intimate/truthful (in theory at least). How long can a relationship last that's not based on truth?
- jaynetics 7y ago
  Not all dating is about long term relationships. There is a large spectrum between, say, AdultFriendFinder on the one and Parship on the other end. Not sure where Facebook think they are going to be in that spectrum.
- dymk 7y ago
  People who use dating apps usually quickly convert to one of two states: "meet in person" or "stop contacting each other". You're suggesting that people meeting in-person are going to be not truthful with each other in a way different than any other dating app?
d--b 7y ago
This may feel weird to us, HN people. But perhaps it’s the good move for Facebook because a lot of people use it differently than we do. There are a lot of people using Facebook as a serious communication platform (think your mum and dad, or your friends from high school). These guys aren’t hiding who they are much on facebook. They’ll probably get way better matches on Facebook than on traditional dating sites. This is not a competitor to Tinder, I see this as a serious dating site for shyer or older people.
crocbuzz 7y ago
The one thing they failed to mention in this press release was pricing. All the competing dating apps are so expensive. If this is free, that's a game changer!
apexalpha 7y ago
So, Tinder?
kearneyandy 7y ago
I'm honestly just surprised that "secret crush" translates to other languages
OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago
no.
peterkelly 7y ago
"If your crush isn’t on Dating, doesn’t create a Secret Crush list, or doesn’t put you on their list — then no one will know that you’ve entered their name." I'm looking forward to watching the shitstorm when that info gets leaked or an exploit is found that allows you to see whose lists you're on.
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  Just put all your friends on the list, that should allow you to see everyone who put you on their list.
  - dag11 7y ago
    But that strategy has the same drawbacks of swiping right on every friend you recognize on Tinder "because of course I'd swipe right, we're friends!" It always leaves the other friend wondering if maybe there was any meaning in your right-swipe.
- e12e 7y ago
  You add all your friends to your secret crush list, and find everyone who's added you? The exploit is built in.
  - loser777 7y ago
    It sounds like they limited this to 9 friends, but if you can still cycle through the list it’ll be problematic.
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      You presumably will still avoid obvious social nukes like crushing on your friend's wife. I don't see much downside to the crush system. If someone's going to have a hissy fit or ruin relationships because they insist on doing the work of cycling through all their friends, then, well, they should be careful for what they wish for.
app4soft 7y ago
Would Facebook Dating be competitor to Tinder?
tempsy 7y ago
I think it's a good opportunity to buy the small dip in Match. That stock has done incredibly well (doubled this year) and every earnings report has been massive as far as new subscriber count goes.
joelrunyon 7y ago
Hard pass.
john-radio 7y ago
Does this service exist only as an app at this time? I have long ago decided that Facebook is not trustworthy enough for it to be allowed to have an app installed on my smartphone. Which I guess should remind me that it is not trustworthy enough to run a dating service that I should take part in.
kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
I think HN should in particular not feel informed enough to comment on strategic benefit of product decisions like these, because the general HN opinion of FB which is at such odds at FB's place in society is enough to conclude that HN doesn't really understand FB. HN is a SV or SV-adjacent bubble that takes pride in not having social media profiles and doesn't hesitate in boasting about it in every frigging thread, multiple times a day. In contrast, (b)millions around the world find value in social media every single day and use it for all kinds of applications. I am confident FB understands this much better than people like us here who can't think of any good use cases of social media without presenting 10 riders to assure the crowd that we hate FB.
- jhanschoo 7y ago
  I don't know enough about FB's realistic position, but it is theoretically better positioned than specialized dating-app companies to provide a better matchmaking service. Specialized dating services fail to provide value to their users once they are no longer in the dating market, whereas FB can continue to get involved in its users' lives post-dating, and arguably moreso when they experience a lifestyle change. For this reason, there is more room for the incentives of FB and those in the dating market to align, and so I welcome this.
- mav3rick 7y ago
  Totally agree. People on here saying it won't work. The first thing people from other apps check is a potential date's Instagram.
- kelnos 7y ago
  Agreed, though I would take the (possibly) more charitable interpretation that many HNers get that FB understands the mainstream, but struggle to understand why the mainstream is the way it is. Or they do understand the mainstream, but feel the need to rail against them for what they view as naïveté and short-term thinking. For me, I'm surprised it took FB this long to launch a dating feature. Despite their decline in some demographics, they are still uniquely positioned to do a much more comprehensive (I hesitate to say "better") job of connecting people on the romantic side than a random new dating startup, or even possibly one of the giants like Match. Perhaps they've hesitated for so long because they were afraid FB users would be afraid of mixing their public FB life too closely with their dating life?
enjoyyourlife 7y ago
It seems like that they are announcing this now in order to cover up the phone number leak
raulgalera 7y ago
isn't that what instagram is for?
zwischenzug 7y ago
The Secret Crush thing is going to spread like a hideous virus, and be cited in many divorce papers... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg
deleted 7y ago
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Temasik 7y ago
cringe
maedayx 7y ago
so... it's Tinder... but blue
nnq 7y ago
"Let's do Tinder... but with likes, shares & comments from your entire (extended) family, and your boss!"
gormo2 7y ago
Online dating seems to be a perennial problem, like a note-taking or "todo app" that attracts many different approaches from startups, but whose end result never quite scratches the itch (for me, at least). a bit offtopic, but have any HN users successfully used dating websites in the past 2-3 years to find long-term partners or spouses? If so, which did you use and do you feel the site/app helped facilitate that process, or was it more of luck that it worked out?
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I've met three girlfriends on Tinder that I dated for more than a year. Dating is always a crap shoot and there's nothing an app can do about it except expose you to volume and ensure you're seeing women who think you're attractive at all. I don't think there's anything I can know about someone that can predict if we'll have chemistry, and that's almost all that matters in the sense that it's not a choice for either person nor can you make it past a meetup without it. For that reason I'm interested in meeting basically any woman I'm attracted to, and that's exactly what an app like Tinder facilitates. I've had zero chemistry with women everyone thought were perfect for me. And I've had long relationships with complete opposites. The question is simple: wanna grab a drink or not? Dating isn't an easy problem. And the reality of it feels cold and cruel to begin with. Apps can't fix that part. There are always people out there who won't even give you a shot because of something out of your control, and that's a hard pill for some to swallow.
rblion 7y ago
I wonder how this fares for Tinder and Bumble. People already use Instagram to 'source' potential mates. Now they can delete one more app off their phone, remember one fewer login. Nobody I know uses Snapchat anymore because of Instagram stories.
- blackflame7000 7y ago
  Which is why I can't for the life of me understand why people value companies like snapchat so highly when they are simply the current fad. Then you see oh they lost $20 Billion since their IPO and you wonder why people with that much money can't see what's clear as day to me. In 5 years, snapchat will be myspace, I'm willing to bet on it.
deftnerd 7y ago
With Facebook's embracing of machine learning and their very deep dataset of personal information about users, this could be quite an amazing user experience and quite a terrifying prospect for privacy. Facebook has a wealth of information on social relationship interactions and also on personal interests. Adding in information on romantic relationship interactions will allow them to (eventually, when the ML models are well-trained) provide amazing matches for users. The downside is that they'll now have a deep understanding of yet another aspect of your persona. What are the dangers? How can they monetize this new relationship knowledge? * Life insurance companies might want to know if someone is prone to date adrenaline junkies and be easily coerced into participating. * Insurance might want to know if someone "hooks up" frequently, which could indicate that the person is at risk of medical problems OR has issues with impulse control. * Dating profiles often match people by self-reported social activities like doing drugs, drinking, etc. That might be of interest to lots of companies. * Relationship going well? Expect to see a lot of ads related to co-habitation (joint checking accounts, moving services, etc) * If the dating service has a "feedback" component to allow people who go on dates to give information on aspects of the other persons personality, facebook might get information about a person that they don't even realize themselves and thus don't self-report. Such as the other person dresses badly, smells funny, needs dental work, tips well, etc. * If facebook determines that you tend to fall for a certain types of physical traits, ads featuring models with those traits will become a thing. * People don't give facebook every bit of information about themselves, but they do give it to dating services. Think of all those questionnaires that ask about your opinions on abortion, if you want to have kids, if dating someone with different political beliefs is a hard pass, etc. Dating services use it to match people up who might be compatible, but Facebook will use it help advertisers get even more granular controls over their targeted users. Even worse, if Facebook wants a certain political party to win, they could match up people who are firmly established in the political party they choose with people who are on the fence in order to let the dominant personality win.
deleted 7y ago
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arrosenberg 7y ago
Hard pass. The last thing we need is Steve Bannon targeting ads at people based on who they've dated.
gameguy43 7y ago
bug in the app on iPhone Xs: unable to leave "preview profile" step.
RyanAF7 7y ago
Why would I do FB dating? I just pick up damn near everyones number. How do you like dem apples?
mudlus 7y ago
All the world is a stage, FB wants to be that stage.
notus 7y ago
Seems weird it shows you mutual friends. Part of the appeal of online dating is stepping outside of your friend circles and looking elsewhere. I definitely wouldn't want to broadcast my dating profile to mutual friends either.
tracker1 7y ago
Goodbye Match, Inc. - And frankly, Facebook is probably a better option, for as bad as they are regarding privacy issues.
mancerayder 7y ago
Yup, great idea! Cue the 'calling out' posts, the bitter posts when it does not work out, the wackos of all ages, and a new culture of publicly describing your personal life in a new reality TV-like, shameless manner. Some years back a nephew (who was about 18 then), had a public back and forth with his girlfriend while their many friends Liked each post like two teams. Let's bring the hyperreality to dating. I won't participate but I'll surely be watching the results.
unsignedint 7y ago
Tried to just to see... "We aren't suggesting people in your area yet." I guess I will have to wait. At least this didn't reject me like other dating sites did. In any case, I'm not sure if I would be inclined actually meet someone from the result. Maybe because of my demisexual nature, but am I the only one feel reluctant to meet up with someone from dating sites?
mcbutterbunz 7y ago
Considering FB has a history of running psychological tests on users, I can easily see how their "Secret Crush Lists" could be used as a psychological test.
zelon88 7y ago
This could fill in nicely the void left in the dating scene by Craigslist's rule changes not too long ago.
dysoco 7y ago
On a tangential note; there still seems to be a lot of improvements to be done in the area of dating apps. I still can't believe that in the era of Machine Learning, Big Data, etc. Tinder insists on presenting me with people with certain characteristics that I almost always pass up on. Companies know with scarily accuracy which things I want to buy but can't present me with someone I'd like to meet and which will potentially want to meet me as well? (Or maybe there's no such person, heh). Or maybe this is just so that I spend all my "Passes" and I buy Tinder Gold or whatever their premium service is called...
Yuval_Halevi 7y ago
Bye bye tinder
HNLurker2 7y ago
God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder
dzhiurgis 7y ago
Finally grandparents around the world can find their partner!
algaeontoast 7y ago
No thanks.

432 points by timdavila 7y ago

And it looks like they're already anticipating your privacy questions: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/privacy-matters-dating/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2019/09/privacy-matters-dating/

gjulianm 7y ago
> That means we won’t create a Facebook Dating profile for your account unless you specifically choose to create one. Does not specify if they will be data mining my profile for dating-related analytics. > Your Dating activity, such as people you like or pass on, won’t be shared with anyone outside Dating. What does 'anyone' mean? Do they refer to other users or do they also close the door to advertisers to show you ads based on who you like? Also, why is Europe outside of the first launch? Does it have anything to do with GDPR? It's just suspicious. Each time Facebook comes closer to the Black Mirror version of it...
DCKing 7y ago
I know this is cynical (my Facebook bias is showing, I know), but I find it somewhat telling that they've delayed launching in any country that has implemented GDPR or a derivative of it. I mean, I get that such laws may be a complication from a compliance perspective. There's a small chance this is due to their legal processes, not because of product reasons. But FB not being ready for modern privacy law when launching a product in 2019 makes me wonder what shenanigans they need to cover up before a European launch.

lerie 7y ago

what a horrible idea for both facebook and its users

dang 7y ago
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

dannykwells 7y ago

What could possibly go wrong??

bdcravens 7y ago
Given that they've had very little accountability (both legally and in terms of the usual business KPIs) so far, the followup is: ..., and if it does, so what?
false-mirror 7y ago
Wild no one is addressing the floodgate of harassment this is opening. At least when one is harassed on another app they can just close it or delete your account and the harasser has little recourse. Given their history, FB will likely just let this mess fester

floatingatoll 7y ago

The list of supported countries does not seem to include any GDPR country.

MrsPeaches 7y ago
At the end of the list: > It will be in Europe by early 2020.

yalogin 7y ago

I don’t get their strategy. Why are they patching on to Facebook like this? Would this dating feature not be better strategically in Instagram? Facebook is rotten in the minds of users but IG is not yet.

buro9 7y ago
Dating makes money, Tinder is successful, so Facebook are leaving money on the table... or worse, letting someone else take the money from the table... if they don't do dating. Of course, the pool of potential people you can date is "those on Facebook", so that's hilarious and compounds existing problems with echo chambers.
- jsjw7sbw 7y ago
  I would love a date people NOT on facebook app.
  - magduf 7y ago
    What about people like me, who have a FB account but never really do anything with it? The only things I use mine for are 1) using FB Messenger (lite) to communicate with some other people who use that, and 2) selling some of my crap on FB Marketplace.
- marcusjt 7y ago
  IMHO it's not about Facebook directly making money from dating subscriptions, it's about getting back a chunk of the user engagement that Facebook has lost to dating apps, i.e. adding dating gives users another reason to stay in the Facebook app, helping Facebook stay relevant in their lives (and spend less time in other apps), plus of course increase session durations & other positive metrics which help company reports, and ultimately derive income by showing more ads to users, likely within the dating experience itself (eventually, if not intially).
AgloeDreams 7y ago
That is exactly why, FB is private. IG is cool and public, lots of people don't cross the two and tinder is in with the younger crowd. They are betting on this helping FB rather than driving the feature. FB knows that anything they make will be used by millions so at this point they are playing a different, longer game to try to drive general social impression. They know they are the default for a lot of things. Facebook's primary concerns and biggest fears are towards the impression of the company, privacy and 'cool' factor with the young crowd.

matchbok 7y ago

FB has clearly run out of ideas.

strikelaserclaw 7y ago
They are just a big company that utilizes their network advantage ruthlessly, copying, buying etc...
bdcravens 7y ago
Have they had new ideas? Seems to me they just take existing ones and just execute better and/or leverage their network advantage.

donatj 7y ago

This seems like something they should have added ten plus years ago, when their demo was primarily college kids. I know many people who were clamoring for it at the time. It would have been an obvious addition as dating and relationships were a large part of the reason a lot of people used Facebook. I half suspect this is an attempt to pull college kids back into Facebook. I think they missed their chance with this by a long shot.

roland35 7y ago
I agree! It seemed like a no-brainer back around 2010 but now with all of the bad press it seems less desirable to put your dating life on Facebook.
- kylel 7y ago
  This was a while ago, but I think in its early days Tinder was just an app on Facebook where you would “like” people on your friends list. If they “liked” you back the app would indicate a match. I always thought this was a really cool feature, and I wish they kept it. It felt more personal.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    I think you mean https://www.reciprocity.io/ https://www.reciprocity.io/ which is unrelated to Tinder.
  - mdrzn 7y ago
    I think you mean Bang with Friends
jrnichols 7y ago
i agree with that. it almost seems like they're throwing their weight into an already way overcrowded market. but it's still too early to tell - how is Facebook Marketplace doing against 5mile/LetItGo/etc? Facebook's massive user base might make this a success. Depending on whether or not there's a fee involved.

JacKTrocinskI 7y ago

Date your friends! :D On a more serious note though, why not? If their mission is to help connect people and this helps connect people that otherwise had trouble dating and this does so in a meaningful way then sounds good to me. Privacy is always a concern no matter what the app/site/technology.

johnisgood 7y ago
The article says this: Facebook Dating won’t match you with friends, unless you choose to use Secret Crush and you both add each other to your list. All of your Dating activity will stay in Facebook Dating. It won’t be shared to the rest of Facebook.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  > It won’t be shared to the rest of Facebook. "Just like your 2FA phone number won't be used for anything except 2FA." - Facebook /s
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- henrikschroder 7y ago
  > unless you choose to use Secret Crush Add all your friends to Secret Crush. Watch who matched you. "Sorry buddy, I wasn't really using the thing, I just added everyone, but thanks for letting me know you like me!" Idiots. And this is why the shared identity is a terrible idea for dating sites. You want dating profiles to be throwaway, and you want it to be hard for your friends to find your dating persona for this reason! But of course Facebook doesn't understand the need to keep secrets from (some of) your friends.
  - chillacy 7y ago

strikelaserclaw 7y ago

Finally, all the tracking they've done on their users over many years could yield the best matching algorithm :|

djsumdog 7y ago
It can't be any worse than OKCs.
cameronbrown 7y ago
Dating sucks, but I'm still more uncomfortable with the idea of somebody's initial meeting being reduced to matching algorithms.
- strikelaserclaw 7y ago
  In my opinion, it might actually prove to be better than letting people decide based on super superficial attributes on dating profiles. Online dating completely sucks, guys have no choice, girls have too many bad choices.
  - ssully 7y ago
    There are other dating apps outside of Tinder and Bumble. I am married, so I don't use them personally, but my friends use/used Tinder/Bumble for more casual dating/hook ups. When they were looking for something a little more serious they would use something like OK Cupid to provide matches based on similar interests. Either way, I don't see how online dating will ever not suck. I have no clue how it is in gay communities, but I do not see straight people's problems ever being different: i.e. Women having to deal with the ocean of terrible men, and Men having the problem of trying to stand out in that ocean (and in some of my male friends cases, not being so picky).
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      Online dating just makes obvious the reality of actual dating. For example, HNers talk about online dating as though they think they aren't being sized up in real life based on their looks and how they dress. And that it wasn't until Tinder that people started doing this.

peterwwillis 7y ago

It doesn't seem to do anything that a normal "Dating" app does. It's just a private friends list. You can already like and message people you have a crush on, without this. Who is this for? "Secret Crush lets you match with people you already know on Facebook and/or Instagram." Because what people have been clamoring for is to know which of their friends like them more than is mutual, so they can feel weird. "You can choose to see other people who are using Facebook Dating that fit your preferences within the groups you are part of and the events you have attended or will be attending." 'Oh look, this person at this upcoming event is looking for a date! I'll go hit on them in person without messaging them.'

magduf 7y ago
>Because what people have been clamoring for is to know which of their friends like them more than is mutual, so they can feel weird. I haven't read the article, but I'm guessing this is probably a typical 2-way match algorithm, or else it really doesn't make sense. i.e., both friends have to put the other in their "secret crush" list for it to inform them that they have a crush on each other. What they really need is a "secret crush for FWB only" list: what if I have a friend that I'd be happy to be FWB with, but have zero interest in a serious relationship, but don't want to broach that topic with her for fear that it would mess up our friendship? This would be a perfect use for FB.
- FillardMillmore 7y ago
  >What they really need is a "secret crush for FWB only" list: what if I have a friend that I'd be happy to be FWB with, but have zero interest in a serious relationship, but don't want to broach that topic with her for fear that it would mess up our friendship? This would be a perfect use for FB. Now there's an idea!
  - peterwwillis 7y ago
    So just straight up ask the person "Have you ever thought about us hooking up?". If they don't want it, they'll just decline, and you can both get over it. Or they'll think you're a creep, and you won't be friends anymore, which is probably for the best seeing as you were harboring secret desires for this person. Either way, being up-front and honest will have a better result than letting Facebook connect you because you were too scared to broach the subject.

estsauver 7y ago

I think this might be a (relatively) rare strategy error for Facebook. If the success of Snapchat, LinkedIn, and also the separate WhatsApp/Instagram properties proves anything, it's that there are very different faces of ourselves that we show to the professional world, to our friends, to partners, and to the world at large. If I was facebook, I would very explicitly announce this as a spin out project, under a different name and brand. While HN has a good knowledge of the ultimate parent owners of apps, I meet a lot of people who protest facebook by moving to Instagram/WhatsApp. Even announcing this through the instagram brand would have made more sense to me.

tryitnow 7y ago
I agree, but I think the "dating self" and the "facebook self" overlap a lot for most people. It's also important for a dating app to have critical mass. Almost everyone is on FB, only a fraction of those people are on IG.
- jonknee 7y ago
  Among all people sure, but among people in the dating demographic? I would not be surprised at all if more people in prime dating ages are on IG than FB (especially in an active manner, do young people post on FB in any real way?).
  - jacobush 7y ago
    I agree for I what I assume you mean by prime dating ages, but think there are more prime dating ages which are not so "prime" in other ways, if you will.
  - StrangeDoctor 7y ago
    I think you’ve gone astray equating young with prime dating, all you need is like seeking like, and both using FB is probably a good start.
    - jonknee 7y ago

mberning 7y ago

They did it with marketplace and took a very significant bite out of places like craigslist. I’m sure they can do the same for dating.

btbuildem 7y ago
It seems super broken (search??), but somehow people use it in droves.
- johnmaguire2013 7y ago
  I've noticed search is totally broken in the mobile browser, but works pretty well on the desktop & phone apps. I bet few Facebookers don't have the app installed.
johnmaguire2013 7y ago
I did not expect Marketplace to take off and now it's a must-check before Craigslist.
- magduf 7y ago
  Not only that, but as much as I like to bad-mount FB, I will say that when I post stuff on FB Marketplace to sell, I never get people saying they want to buy it from me with a cashier's check. There are a lot of flakes, however, but that's the case with CL as well, but I've never run across a scammer, whereas on CL I get scammers all the time with the stupid cashier's check scam.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    This is totally regional and item category specific. Anything primarily bought sold by the people that write "I check email once a week and don't text so call me" in their CL ads is not going to be on marketplace.
    - magduf 7y ago

TallGuyShort 7y ago

"Secret Crush Lists" Yeah that doesn't sound like something that'll end up on Pastebin.

erikig 7y ago
When the largest accompanying FB news headline is: "Over 400 million Facebook users' phone numbers exposed" this feels like the most poorly timed product launch.
- TomMarius 7y ago
  Don't underestimate Facebook. I am sure they have stats that show that almost no one knows. Because almost no one knows - not even most IT professionals. There is also something I call "sulking to the giant" (my made up term) - I've seen many times people say "I would never tell Facebook my name/city/age/..." only to do it a year later.
  - lapnitnelav 7y ago
    Yeah, I don't know about underestimating them, I've been chatting back and forth with our FB account manager regarding our business needs for something in their Ad biz. Turns out, they can't deliver on this pretty universal feature (even Twitter has it), so huh yeah, let's talk about how great they are again.
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      I would guess that their business analysts are separate from their development team.
- deminature 7y ago
  I assume they're thinking the groups of people that read security disclosure articles and those that would use FB dating are disjoint. They're probably not wrong.
  - 7y ago

AlphaWeaver 7y ago

>The consolidation of social activities (such as the process of dating, dating apps, and the network effects that result) into these walled gardens makes being a conscientious objector of social media more challenging each time they announce a feature like this. I and others don't want to use Facebook. Please don't leave us with no choice. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19790889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19790889

gtirloni 7y ago
> I and others don't want to use Facebook. Please don't leave us with no choice What? You don't want to use then don't use it. That's your choice.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  Literally the entire lesson of the social networking age is that it's not entirely your choice. If everyone you know is on Facebook, and everyone you want to date is on Facebook, all the events you want to attend are organized on Facebook, etc., you have very strong pressures on you to use Facebook, whether you want to or not.
  - briandear 7y ago
    Nonsense. Just don't use Facebook. Send email or use iMessage/Signal whatevs. If you are "left out" -- then those people probably cared about your involvement only superficially. As far as people you want to date -- how weird would it be to actually talk to the person? You'd stand out from the crowd specifically because you aren't like everybody else. Grow a spine.
    - SkyPuncher 7y ago
      Not using Facebook is fine for direct conversations. It really isn't an option in larger groups. ---- Here's a great example. I go on a canoe weekend with a bunch of old friend each year. Some years it has an upwards of 100 people attending. I know about 10 to 20 people, including the hosts, very well. The rest are either acquaintances, second connections, or friends/family of the hosts. Everything gets done via a Facebook event because it's the easiest way for the hosts to communicate with a group of 100 people. A few people "refuse" to use Facebook so all communication with them about the event has to be done on a secondary channel. Sometimes those people accidentally get left out of important notices. It's nothing malicious, just the hosts having jobs and busy lives and forget about a few odd ones out.

bfrog 7y ago

It's facebook official, its time to get the hell off facebook

bdcravens 7y ago
With everything they've done, dating is the line they shouldn't have crossed?

papito 7y ago

Cool. I think I have a chance with all those wives of my friends that used to be young and single.

_pmf_ 7y ago

Money, dating and social credit system in one place. How convenient.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dlivingston 7y ago
It strikes me as similar to the 'super apps' in China, a la WeChat.

29_29 7y ago

April fools? Had to check my calendar

randomdata 7y ago
I noticed the Dating tab show up a couple of months ago, so I'm only surprised to learn it wasn't already official.

Diti 7y ago

Dating platforms are incentivized to keep the client (whether they are a paying customer, or an individual giving them passive income through advertising) from leaving the platform. What do you think is in Facebook’s interest? You leaving the platform to live a satisfying love life?

ken 7y ago
I hate to say it, but this is actually an advantage of FB here. Once you're no longer dating, you'll still use their platform, just like you did before. They have no incentive to keep you in the dating pool.
- badwolf 7y ago
  This has been my thought on why FB will probably do fantastic in this space.

unethical_ban 7y ago

I am shocked by the ignorance here. "Why would Facebook do this? Nobody trusts them, they've run out of ideas, etc." They're the largest social network in the world, and this site is a filter bubble of privacy advocates and relatively anti-social people. Do you truly believe there isn't a market on Facebook for dating? Do you really think Facebook brand is universally tarnished in some way that this isn't a good move for a company with such power and money on hand? Come on. I'm angry at myself for not predicting this. Although back in the day, it was allowable to search for people by a lot more filters, such as town, interest, school, etc. to find people. Now it's doing it for you.

kgraves 7y ago
> I am shocked by the ignorance here. "Why would Facebook do this? Nobody trusts them, they've run out of ideas, etc." I agree. The majority of HN users are 0.0001% of FB users and it clearly isn't built for them. As a response to the quote, FB can do this not only "because they can", but also they are taking on the Match Group family of apps (Tinder, OKC, etc.) This was inevitable whether the tech crowd or the privacy parade likes it or not.
magduf 7y ago
I really fail to see how trying to get into the dating market for 40-80 year old right-wing conservatives is really going to help them. The 20-somethings don't use FB, and sure as hell aren't going to use it for dating, and the 30-somethings probably aren't either.
- kgraves 7y ago
  > The 20-somethings don't use FB, and sure as hell aren't going to use it for dating, and the 30-somethings probably aren't either. Facebook has been known (and are starting to) take over their family of apps. Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger are already used by the 20 somethings and all the founders are gone so they have full control over them. I wouldn't be surprised that they would shower features into it's family of apps that already exist on FB. (See Stories)
briandear 7y ago

indiantinker 7y ago

Interesting choice of pilot countries/regions.

bdcravens 7y ago
Probably choosing countries with fewer regulations for faster time to market (they do say, for example, they're coming to Europe in 2020)

bengotow 7y ago

Man what a shame, if they weren't a decade late (both in terms of competition and in terms of folks having trust in Facebook), this could have been cool.

puranjay 7y ago

Is it bad that my first reaction to this headline was "yikes!"

rdtwo 7y ago

This will be successful, the #1 cheating app will also be the #1 dating app it’s a no brainer

booleandilemma 7y ago

I’m still waiting for LinkedIn dating.

rcpt 7y ago
or Blind

flr03 7y ago

In a way this arrives extremely late, and minus the secret crush thing it's very much copying Tinder's design. On the other hand I don't see the online dating market collapsing anytime soon.

carlosdp 7y ago

So, I'd use this, as someone who has trouble getting matches on dating apps usually. Facebook already has the largest issue for dating apps solved: the network chicken-and-egg problem. Dating apps are non-exclusive, I have 3 installed on my phone and using an additional one isn't a big deal. If they are able to provide a differentiated feature set from other apps because they can better leverage FB interest data, I don't see why this couldn't work. Is anyone else on this thread even in the dating scene right now? I really don't see how this is a plainly bad idea.

anonymousjunior 7y ago
Does anyone actually have up to date interest data on FB these days? I can't remember the last time I "liked" an interest or artist page. All of the data in the system now is leftover from when I was like 15 using the platform (24 now and yes, actively dating). Only thing I actively use FB for these days is messenger and fantasy football shit talking groups, which are all "private".
- carlosdp 7y ago
  I was more talking about the "dark" data they collect from our surfing over the internet =P Not great, but it could potentially help with this one particular case.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
Also, what people on HN seem to be missing is that with dating, I don't care where I get my "leads" from. I can be using every single dating app at once, so what do I care about clicking "enable dating" on Facebook? Facebook gave me a notification to try FB Dating the other week. I clicked it, chose my pics, and was on the meat market immediately, receiving phone notifications like "Karen liked you" just like any other dating app. I click it, view their profile, and start messaging them. Being linked to Facebook profiles, I also have more trust in the other party which is how Tinder started out. HN rants so consistently about dating apps that I think it's mostly just ranting about dating in general. Facebook is ubiquitous in Mexico where I live. And when I go back to the States and meet people 20-35 downtown, I have yet to find people who aren't on Facebook. I think HNers vastly overestimate the exodus from Facebook, if there is one, just because we like to cover FB's privacy issues here on HN.

js2 7y ago

> Starting today, you can choose to opt into Facebook Dating and create a Dating profile (separate from your main profile) if you’re 18 years or older and have downloaded the most recent version of Facebook So this is mobile-only? Exclusive of WhatsApp/Instagram, isn't that a first for FB?

madrox 7y ago

Seeing something like this come out of Facebook makes me glad to be married. Is it a good idea for them? Yes. Will people use it? Probably. Is it a little creepy to imagine a company that’s already under constant scrutiny about how it handles your data to also know more about your dating life? Absolutely. That said, Facebook is already out with 20-somethings. Is this really going to used by that audience? Or is this replacing Yahoo Personals for 40-somethings?

kgraves 7y ago
They already own Instagram, WhatsApp and Messenger. If they can't get them on FB, the features will trickle down towards the family of apps, maybe under a different app name or feature.
- madrox 7y ago
  Instagram Dating or WhatsApp Dating actually sounds hilarious and I want to see those.

francisofascii 7y ago

Reminds me of this dialog from the Social Network movie: Relationship Status, Interested In. This is what drives life at college. Are you having sex or aren’t you. It’s why people take certain classes, and sit where they sit, and do what they do, and at its, um, center, you know, that’s what the Facebook is gonna be about. People are gonna log on because after all the cake and watermelon there’s a chance they’re actually gonna, (get laid), meet a girl. Yes.

par 7y ago
That movie, like this sentiment about facebook, is now 9 years old.

defnmacro 7y ago

If I was an exec at Tinder what do you do here? There's nothing exactly that differentiates FB Dating from Tinder and I can't think of an USP differentiating the two, except that FB Dating may be more convenient. Kind of an interesting precedent though that FB decided to build this in-house rather than buy Tinder as well.

marcusjt 7y ago
>There's nothing exactly that differentiates FB Dating from Tinder and I can't think of an USP differentiating the two, except that FB Dating may be more convenient. I couldn't disagree more - Tinder shows you pretty much random people apart from some incredibly basic criteria (age, gender, proximity) whereas FB has the potential to be massively more effective at matching you given that it has a huge wealth of information (e.g. liked posts, pages, etc) to draw upon to select candidate matches to show you. It may naively assume that similarity is always good and that isn't necessarily true so hopefully their algorithm isn't so naive. Either way, so FB's dating experience could completely destroy Tinder unless they get their ass in gear quickly and deliver a more more success-focused user experience, right now Tinder doesn't seem to care at all about match quality, nor eliminating fake & dormant profiles.
SkyPuncher 7y ago
I'd be blasting FB for the privacy issues and reinforcing Tinder as a privacy conscientious company (whether or not that's true, I'm not really sure).

decebalus1 7y ago

Heh.. This may actually work and I'm surprised it wasn't implemented sooner. Back in the mid 2000's, I was on Hi5. So were a lot of people where I lived. Although a social network, everyone I knew was using it solely for dating. I got dozens of good dates from Hi5. It was pretty awesome.

FillardMillmore 7y ago

It raises the question, where is the line drawn for FB users of things they will refuse to share with Facebook and/or allow Facebook to control?

jeffrogers 7y ago

(now wishing HN had a downvote button)

chrisseaton 7y ago
You want to downvote the story, because you don't like what it's about, rather than you think it's bad reporting?

akerro 7y ago

> It takes the work out of creating a dating profile and gives you a more authentic look at who someone is. It feels like most people post too many fake pictures, news and crap on their profiles and this isn't going to be a good idea. "Look guys, I'm happy on Virgin Islands, like this!" (also on Prozac)

ken 7y ago

"a Dating profile (separate from your main profile)" "Secret Crush lists" "All of your Dating activity will stay in Facebook Dating" "Feel safe by sharing details" I don't know how anyone who's read a news article about Facebook in the past year (or browsed the web and glanced at the ads they get) can believe any of this.

grecy 7y ago
I actually laughed out loud when I read this. What a sad joke/lie.

blackflame7000 7y ago

Now facebook can really start to build a social credit score for everyone.

dymk 7y ago
That's a cheap jab, care to elaborate?
- blackflame7000 7y ago
  It's not a jab, it's seeing someone for who they really are. Facebook hasn't suddenly decided to play cupid out of the goodness of their heart, they now have a system to effectively rank their user's social scores based on things like swipes and messages. Most of the Match.com apps do the same, but the scale of facebook puts most of them to shame. The fact is that they aren't offering a new way of dating, just a new way of gathering more valuable data on you. After all, who wants to waste time advertising to someone with no friends or influence when they can promote to the person getting swipes left and right.

Kalium 7y ago

What I find most interesting about this is that a dating application finally gets away from the core business model conflict. Facebook doesn't need users to stay on the Dating application to be profitable.

eddof13 7y ago

Just saying, having used Facebook Dating in Mexico where it's been for a while, much better return than on Tinder

nasalgoat 7y ago

This has been live in Canada for some time in a "beta" incarnation, and from a purely product standpoint it is terrible. The UI is just bad. You cannot browse profiles, you must say "yes" or "no" and the decision is final. If you scroll down to read a profile more, when you pass, it leaves you in the same scroll spot in the next profile. This is User Interface 101 level stuff. The list of problems goes on from there. Everything about it says "throwaway add-on" that they haven't spent any real time on optimizing. When originally announced, Match stock dropped 25% on the news, only to bounce back. I don't see this product really making a big dent in the Match bottom line.

haunter 7y ago
>The UI is just bad. You cannot browse profiles, you must say "yes" or "no" and the decision is final. So Tinder?
- nasalgoat 7y ago
  Yes, but on Tinder the profiles will re-appear later when you go back to swipe again. Other apps allow general browsing and better photo viewing too.
  - dymk 7y ago
    Wait, are you saying that Tinder will show you accounts that you've swiped left on at a later date? I have not found that to be the case.
    - nasalgoat 7y ago
      Yes, I've personally seen memorable profiles come back later. It's one way to make the app seem busier with more people.
      - dymk 7y ago
        Interesting. I wonder if this is people deleting and re-creating accounts? Or spam accounts using the same images?

spyckie2 7y ago

Whereas tinder, instagram, and others value add is from their content, the value of Facebook (the platform) has always been the network. Facebook as a company has always been chasing after content. This is because content has a direct and clear monetization strategy whereas helping people make use of their network is difficult to make money from. Well, it shows - $40bn in revenue, 80% of it in ads. Helping people to use their network effectively is basically charity work to Facebook. How are you going to at-scale monetize that out? The answer: you don't. But with some irony, after chasing content for over a decade, I think Facebook is now in a position to do some charity work. Similar to Google, who saturated their ad team's return on value and has it's employees working on moonshots all day, Facebook can now afford to sit on their content engines and attack problem spaces that are harder to monetize and solve but provide more meaningful value. Long story short, I think it's the right time for Facebook's hayday to sneak up on us because it can quietly focus on adding real value via our networks without chasing after money from them. I really like the idea of Facebook Dating, because 1) it already has the network and doesn't need to build it, and 2) it doesn't need to make money. Most dating apps suffer under the pressure to make money and grow. For a dating app to grow it has to focus on building cohesive user bases that find value in each other and eventually creates its own ecosystems that damages the experience for others (i.e. hookup culture). While Facebook Dating might still have some of that, I could see it ending up as a more serious dating platform because it doesn't need to focus on user growth. How would you monetize Marketplace? Facebook Dating? The answer is: you don't care that much, throw some ads on it and let it cover costs. 7-8 years ago when people were searching for Facebook's killer money printing machine, these projects would have a lot of pressure to make a lot of money. Nowadays, sheltered by the content engine that Facebook has amassed, these projects can focus on providing immediate and strong value through Facebook's core benefit (it's network) and hold off on how to make money for a couple of years. Sounds familiar? It sounds a lot like Gmail.

mabermoske 7y ago

If I look at who I know that is still using fb it is almost exclusively older people. I'm 33 and deleted my fb account, almost every person I know younger than me either did the same or was never on in the first place. I see this being huge for older adults who are divorced or widowed, those are the people still using fb and I think would be happy to use this service.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
Counter-anecdote: I'm 30 and have yet to meet someone in my dating/friend range (20-35) that never had Facebook here in Mexico or home in Austin. I'd be curious if you're socializing in some sort of anti-FB bubble or actually have a sample size of like 5 people when you consider the people you actually know this info about.
- jessicalondon 7y ago
  Willing to date 10 years younger, but only 5 years higher. Interesting.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    Controversial in 2019, but youth is a perk if I get to choose with an "age range" slider. Also, women 35+ are usually on a different clock than I am. I'm happy to share more insight as a man dating at 30 if you want, but just ask.
    - simias 7y ago
      This is veering wildly off topic but I'm curious: don't you think people in their early 20's would also be on a wildly "different clock"? I'm only slightly older than you are and through a weird series of event ended up frequenting a WhatsApp group populated mainly by people in their early 20s and the culture shock is pretty large. People in their early 20's are generally students, they have different priorities, lower incomes, different cultural differences etc... It seems easier to find 40yo who share my interests and my lifestyle in my experience.

bitL 7y ago

Didn't Facebook originally start as a "reductionistic" way for nerds around Mark to connect with "secret crushes" at Harvard? Didn't YouTube start as a dating site at UIUC as well, for pretty much the same reasons?

kart23 7y ago

Can anyone tell me how to actually opt in and use dating? I cant find it in the app on android.

hmmmhmmmhmmm 7y ago

Facebook has 10+ years of data about people and their friendships and relationships unfolding through time (tagged pictures, relationship status, updates, likes, etc.). It's hard to tell if they've built and deployed such a model for proposing matches, but this could be their killer feature. Superficially, this product seems no different from existing data apps.

Lramseyer 7y ago
That was what I thought! I’m a pretty anti-Facebook person, and I don’t have a profile anymore. But facebook has data on you both explicit and implicit. They can predict your mental health state, socioeconomic status, and they have tons of data on the formation of relationships and marriages. They can even predict who you like and who you’re going to date next. As creepy as that data is, why shouldn’t they use it to actually connect people who they would predict to be compatible? A huge problem for online dating platforms is making good suggestions, and Facebook is probably the most well equipped to address it.

malloreon 7y ago

requiring installation of the FB app is a nonstarter.

malicioususer11 7y ago

Facebook had better add an "Extremely Polyamorous" option to their relationship status pulldown or this will fail miserably. :)

xzmmd 7y ago

I can't believe the hero image does not feature an interracial and/or homosexual couple... I've come to expect more from you, west coast

b_tterc_p 7y ago

It sounds to me like a primary use case of this would be... cheating... Unlike other dating platforms, this one is integrated with your supposedly up to date profile. Being able to set up a low risk secret crush with a known friend seems likely to be popular to those interested in doing so. That is to say, a person who wants to cheat has no problem having a Facebook profile, so there’s not a need for anonymity against being found by known acquaintances like you might expect on other platforms.

empath75 7y ago
Yeah, this is going to break up a lot of marriages, imo. People are going to get suspicious of their spouses facebook activity in a way that they aren't currently.
- phil248 7y ago
  Not to be pedantic, but websites don't break up marriages. Married people break up marriages.
vermarish 7y ago
There's no way Facebook would allow someone to use Facebook Dating while their relationship status is set to "married" or "in a relationship." That leaves only alternate accounts as an option for someone using their dating to cheat, but I dont think Facebook has much of an alternate account culture. Unless someone has an account for personal use and an account for "work" use that they cheat with? And their work friends list are all part of the pool for the Facebook dating protocol? That would get real messy.
- b_tterc_p 7y ago
  I look forward to seeing if your first statement is true.
  - b_tterc_p 7y ago
    Seems like it was false! You can use this while married on Facebook

sureste 7y ago

Off-topic, but the number of times people misspell Colombia as Columbia is very high and I'm (more) disappointed in FB for letting it pass.

copperx 7y ago
It grinds my gears too. Mnemonic for anyone that struggles with it: ColOmbia is the cOuntry. ColUmbia is the shUttle (or University).
- twic 7y ago
  Or: Columbia is named after Christopher Columbus Colombia is named after Cristoforo Colombo If you can remember which countries traditionally mostly speak English, and which mostly spoke a Romance language, you have a shot at getting it right.

calimac 7y ago

Facebook can't resist the trove of data and traffic the dating app will deliver. Those intelligent enough to understand must lead the sheep to safety. Facebook should be boycotted by everyone who understands their corporate culture well enough to know that they are a predatory data company.

nikolay 7y ago

All dating apps target millennials... because they are developed by millennials. When will SV get for once that they don't get their demographic as they have nothing in common with people 40+. For example, except Microsoft, no other SV company gets families. I was surprised by the idiotic family support Google offers in their ecosystem and especially Google One. Same with Spotify, Netflix, etc. Facebook with their "family" support of children less than 13 is totally idiotic as well (scrapbooks or whatever they call it) - and so is their "dating" app! They just don't innovate these days - they just copy competitors in sick hopes to make people come back.

electricslpnsld 7y ago
> All dating apps target millennials Millennials are almost in their 40s now! The prime dating app market (low to mid 20s) is now Gen Z.
- nikolay 7y ago
  True about millennials and Gen Z, but "millennial" now acquired the meaning of "ungrounded young people". It depends on what you call a "market". Real dating apps charge fees and don't have hidden agendas like Facebook (rule the world and sell your data to advertisers) - that's what I call a "dating app market". Sifting thru photos is not really dating - especially Instagram and Facebook photos, which, in most cases, are twisted reality.
- sushid 7y ago
  As a millennial a few years shy of hitting 30, I find your rounding up a bit too generous. That aside, I’d still say that the prime Tinder age group is millennials.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

bambax 7y ago

> Facebook Dating makes it easier to find love through what you like I don't like Facebook... No dating for me! Seriously, Facebook seems to be a tool for self-advertising (look at my wonderful holiday photos), while dating is more personal/intimate/truthful (in theory at least). How long can a relationship last that's not based on truth?

jaynetics 7y ago
Not all dating is about long term relationships. There is a large spectrum between, say, AdultFriendFinder on the one and Parship on the other end. Not sure where Facebook think they are going to be in that spectrum.
dymk 7y ago
People who use dating apps usually quickly convert to one of two states: "meet in person" or "stop contacting each other". You're suggesting that people meeting in-person are going to be not truthful with each other in a way different than any other dating app?

d--b 7y ago

This may feel weird to us, HN people. But perhaps it’s the good move for Facebook because a lot of people use it differently than we do. There are a lot of people using Facebook as a serious communication platform (think your mum and dad, or your friends from high school). These guys aren’t hiding who they are much on facebook. They’ll probably get way better matches on Facebook than on traditional dating sites. This is not a competitor to Tinder, I see this as a serious dating site for shyer or older people.

crocbuzz 7y ago

The one thing they failed to mention in this press release was pricing. All the competing dating apps are so expensive. If this is free, that's a game changer!

apexalpha 7y ago

So, Tinder?

kearneyandy 7y ago

I'm honestly just surprised that "secret crush" translates to other languages

OBLIQUE_PILLAR 7y ago

no.

peterkelly 7y ago

"If your crush isn’t on Dating, doesn’t create a Secret Crush list, or doesn’t put you on their list — then no one will know that you’ve entered their name." I'm looking forward to watching the shitstorm when that info gets leaked or an exploit is found that allows you to see whose lists you're on.

henrikschroder 7y ago
Just put all your friends on the list, that should allow you to see everyone who put you on their list.
- dag11 7y ago
  But that strategy has the same drawbacks of swiping right on every friend you recognize on Tinder "because of course I'd swipe right, we're friends!" It always leaves the other friend wondering if maybe there was any meaning in your right-swipe.
e12e 7y ago
You add all your friends to your secret crush list, and find everyone who's added you? The exploit is built in.
- loser777 7y ago
  It sounds like they limited this to 9 friends, but if you can still cycle through the list it’ll be problematic.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    You presumably will still avoid obvious social nukes like crushing on your friend's wife. I don't see much downside to the crush system. If someone's going to have a hissy fit or ruin relationships because they insist on doing the work of cycling through all their friends, then, well, they should be careful for what they wish for.

app4soft 7y ago

Would Facebook Dating be competitor to Tinder?

tempsy 7y ago

I think it's a good opportunity to buy the small dip in Match. That stock has done incredibly well (doubled this year) and every earnings report has been massive as far as new subscriber count goes.

joelrunyon 7y ago

Hard pass.

john-radio 7y ago

Does this service exist only as an app at this time? I have long ago decided that Facebook is not trustworthy enough for it to be allowed to have an app installed on my smartphone. Which I guess should remind me that it is not trustworthy enough to run a dating service that I should take part in.

kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago

I think HN should in particular not feel informed enough to comment on strategic benefit of product decisions like these, because the general HN opinion of FB which is at such odds at FB's place in society is enough to conclude that HN doesn't really understand FB. HN is a SV or SV-adjacent bubble that takes pride in not having social media profiles and doesn't hesitate in boasting about it in every frigging thread, multiple times a day. In contrast, (b)millions around the world find value in social media every single day and use it for all kinds of applications. I am confident FB understands this much better than people like us here who can't think of any good use cases of social media without presenting 10 riders to assure the crowd that we hate FB.

jhanschoo 7y ago
I don't know enough about FB's realistic position, but it is theoretically better positioned than specialized dating-app companies to provide a better matchmaking service. Specialized dating services fail to provide value to their users once they are no longer in the dating market, whereas FB can continue to get involved in its users' lives post-dating, and arguably moreso when they experience a lifestyle change. For this reason, there is more room for the incentives of FB and those in the dating market to align, and so I welcome this.
mav3rick 7y ago
Totally agree. People on here saying it won't work. The first thing people from other apps check is a potential date's Instagram.
kelnos 7y ago
Agreed, though I would take the (possibly) more charitable interpretation that many HNers get that FB understands the mainstream, but struggle to understand why the mainstream is the way it is. Or they do understand the mainstream, but feel the need to rail against them for what they view as naïveté and short-term thinking. For me, I'm surprised it took FB this long to launch a dating feature. Despite their decline in some demographics, they are still uniquely positioned to do a much more comprehensive (I hesitate to say "better") job of connecting people on the romantic side than a random new dating startup, or even possibly one of the giants like Match. Perhaps they've hesitated for so long because they were afraid FB users would be afraid of mixing their public FB life too closely with their dating life?

enjoyyourlife 7y ago

It seems like that they are announcing this now in order to cover up the phone number leak

raulgalera 7y ago

isn't that what instagram is for?

zwischenzug 7y ago

The Secret Crush thing is going to spread like a hideous virus, and be cited in many divorce papers... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rNgCnY1lPg

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Temasik 7y ago

cringe

maedayx 7y ago

so... it's Tinder... but blue

nnq 7y ago

"Let's do Tinder... but with likes, shares & comments from your entire (extended) family, and your boss!"

gormo2 7y ago

Online dating seems to be a perennial problem, like a note-taking or "todo app" that attracts many different approaches from startups, but whose end result never quite scratches the itch (for me, at least). a bit offtopic, but have any HN users successfully used dating websites in the past 2-3 years to find long-term partners or spouses? If so, which did you use and do you feel the site/app helped facilitate that process, or was it more of luck that it worked out?

hombre_fatal 7y ago
I've met three girlfriends on Tinder that I dated for more than a year. Dating is always a crap shoot and there's nothing an app can do about it except expose you to volume and ensure you're seeing women who think you're attractive at all. I don't think there's anything I can know about someone that can predict if we'll have chemistry, and that's almost all that matters in the sense that it's not a choice for either person nor can you make it past a meetup without it. For that reason I'm interested in meeting basically any woman I'm attracted to, and that's exactly what an app like Tinder facilitates. I've had zero chemistry with women everyone thought were perfect for me. And I've had long relationships with complete opposites. The question is simple: wanna grab a drink or not? Dating isn't an easy problem. And the reality of it feels cold and cruel to begin with. Apps can't fix that part. There are always people out there who won't even give you a shot because of something out of your control, and that's a hard pill for some to swallow.

rblion 7y ago

I wonder how this fares for Tinder and Bumble. People already use Instagram to 'source' potential mates. Now they can delete one more app off their phone, remember one fewer login. Nobody I know uses Snapchat anymore because of Instagram stories.

blackflame7000 7y ago
Which is why I can't for the life of me understand why people value companies like snapchat so highly when they are simply the current fad. Then you see oh they lost $20 Billion since their IPO and you wonder why people with that much money can't see what's clear as day to me. In 5 years, snapchat will be myspace, I'm willing to bet on it.

deftnerd 7y ago

With Facebook's embracing of machine learning and their very deep dataset of personal information about users, this could be quite an amazing user experience and quite a terrifying prospect for privacy. Facebook has a wealth of information on social relationship interactions and also on personal interests. Adding in information on romantic relationship interactions will allow them to (eventually, when the ML models are well-trained) provide amazing matches for users. The downside is that they'll now have a deep understanding of yet another aspect of your persona. What are the dangers? How can they monetize this new relationship knowledge? * Life insurance companies might want to know if someone is prone to date adrenaline junkies and be easily coerced into participating. * Insurance might want to know if someone "hooks up" frequently, which could indicate that the person is at risk of medical problems OR has issues with impulse control. * Dating profiles often match people by self-reported social activities like doing drugs, drinking, etc. That might be of interest to lots of companies. * Relationship going well? Expect to see a lot of ads related to co-habitation (joint checking accounts, moving services, etc) * If the dating service has a "feedback" component to allow people who go on dates to give information on aspects of the other persons personality, facebook might get information about a person that they don't even realize themselves and thus don't self-report. Such as the other person dresses badly, smells funny, needs dental work, tips well, etc. * If facebook determines that you tend to fall for a certain types of physical traits, ads featuring models with those traits will become a thing. * People don't give facebook every bit of information about themselves, but they do give it to dating services. Think of all those questionnaires that ask about your opinions on abortion, if you want to have kids, if dating someone with different political beliefs is a hard pass, etc. Dating services use it to match people up who might be compatible, but Facebook will use it help advertisers get even more granular controls over their targeted users. Even worse, if Facebook wants a certain political party to win, they could match up people who are firmly established in the political party they choose with people who are on the fence in order to let the dominant personality win.

deleted 7y ago

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arrosenberg 7y ago

Hard pass. The last thing we need is Steve Bannon targeting ads at people based on who they've dated.

gameguy43 7y ago

bug in the app on iPhone Xs: unable to leave "preview profile" step.

RyanAF7 7y ago

Why would I do FB dating? I just pick up damn near everyones number. How do you like dem apples?

mudlus 7y ago

All the world is a stage, FB wants to be that stage.

notus 7y ago

Seems weird it shows you mutual friends. Part of the appeal of online dating is stepping outside of your friend circles and looking elsewhere. I definitely wouldn't want to broadcast my dating profile to mutual friends either.

tracker1 7y ago

Goodbye Match, Inc. - And frankly, Facebook is probably a better option, for as bad as they are regarding privacy issues.

mancerayder 7y ago

Yup, great idea! Cue the 'calling out' posts, the bitter posts when it does not work out, the wackos of all ages, and a new culture of publicly describing your personal life in a new reality TV-like, shameless manner. Some years back a nephew (who was about 18 then), had a public back and forth with his girlfriend while their many friends Liked each post like two teams. Let's bring the hyperreality to dating. I won't participate but I'll surely be watching the results.

unsignedint 7y ago

Tried to just to see... "We aren't suggesting people in your area yet." I guess I will have to wait. At least this didn't reject me like other dating sites did. In any case, I'm not sure if I would be inclined actually meet someone from the result. Maybe because of my demisexual nature, but am I the only one feel reluctant to meet up with someone from dating sites?

mcbutterbunz 7y ago

Considering FB has a history of running psychological tests on users, I can easily see how their "Secret Crush Lists" could be used as a psychological test.

zelon88 7y ago

This could fill in nicely the void left in the dating scene by Craigslist's rule changes not too long ago.

dysoco 7y ago

On a tangential note; there still seems to be a lot of improvements to be done in the area of dating apps. I still can't believe that in the era of Machine Learning, Big Data, etc. Tinder insists on presenting me with people with certain characteristics that I almost always pass up on. Companies know with scarily accuracy which things I want to buy but can't present me with someone I'd like to meet and which will potentially want to meet me as well? (Or maybe there's no such person, heh). Or maybe this is just so that I spend all my "Passes" and I buy Tinder Gold or whatever their premium service is called...

Yuval_Halevi 7y ago

Bye bye tinder

HNLurker2 7y ago

God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder God have mercy be better than Tinder

dzhiurgis 7y ago

Finally grandparents around the world can find their partner!

algaeontoast 7y ago

No thanks.