8 ms·

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few

Great game, technically impressive, but the community can be quite mean and toxic. I played for around a year after having played other TA Spring RTS for a few years prior, and if you don’t follow the exact meta of the month (whatever that might be) in terms of build order and things, people can get really aggro and your team can vote to kick you and take your units. Also, one particularly aggravating part of the community is that it’s considered courtesy to surrender once the front line is broken instead of playing the game out and letting the back eco players try and recover it. The drafting for picking map spots is done in order of seniority, and the good players take all the low stress spots which leaves the newer players to take the more difficult spots. This feeds into a loop where the senior players get aggro at the new players for letting the front break down, but simultaneously they won’t take it themselves even though it’s the more important position. I stopped playing because I felt like I had a lot of negative interactions in every 2nd or 3rd game. The front player blames the back player, the back player blames the front player, everyone flames the weakest player.

RugnirViking 3mo ago
Wow, that sounds awful. That's beyond optimising the fun out of a game, it's straight up refusing to have fun. One wonders what they get from it?
- scns 3mo ago
  Imaginary superiority
- tasuki 3mo ago
  > That's beyond optimising the fun out of a game I'd even dare to say it's beyond all reason.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  Different people get different things out of video games (and everything, really). For some, the fun is learning, and the game stops being fun when you understand it (this is me). For others, the fun starts after they're learned, and starts being good at it, but still have competition with others. For yet others, mastering it and being the best is the fun. All these groups of people sometimes play in the same lobbies, and what the players "gain" from the session can be very different depending on the person. There is no "right or wrong" way to play video games, or the right/wrong motivation for it, it's just different.
- NikolaNovak 3mo ago
  My best friend is the great optimizer. In magic the gathering I had dozens of decks trying different things. He had a single deck that he kept tweaking to within the millimetre of perfection. In overwatch, I would play different characters to experience different parts of the game and try different strategies. He played single character for years, with 10 times the hours in that char than I had in all of them combined. Heck even in real life, he was a Java developer for decades whereas I was a type of fleeting sysadmin specifically so I could play with different toys in the stack :). Now, this is a bit side Venn diagram, he'd never be rude on an online game (he does have offline opinions on the meta :). But it let me understand people who have fun in a very different way than I do :). He doesn't see boredom in playing same way over and over (and over and over), I think he sees it as professional athlete being focused and honing their specific craft.
- mock-possum 3mo ago
  Bullying is a way to have fun. Additionally, some people are desperate for approval, and will even chase being bullied as a way to get attention from others. It’s not exactly a mystery, it’s just sad.
- killerstorm 3mo ago
  I think the situation aetherspawn is "highest rank in a low-rank lobby", e.g. an experienced player playing together with newbies. That might be a person who's just enjoying executing a specific strategy. True top-tier players are very flexible and love high-risk tactics like flying your commander to enemy base. They also happy to "go next" if something went wrong.
Panzer04 3mo ago
This very much depends on the lobby. I don't think this is unique to BAR either - it's just that 8v8 is the most popular mode. Lots of players mean more chances to get a toxic guy who doesn't recognise their own faults and blames others. I actually just don't really agree about the assertion on player slots. If anything, the better players get the more likely they are to play a front slot, because they have an outside influence on the chances of their team winning.
- aetherspawn 3mo ago
  My OS floated around 10-15 and I virtually always ended up having to go front in every lobby, which is the position I hate the most because I don’t like playing my strategy game like an RPG - that is, micro-ing just a dozen of units and optimising every rocket or bullet hit or whatever, which is kind of what front is like. Front has zero opportunity or resources available to build any kind of economy, and once the T2 units start coming through from the other side they feel very expendable. As the front player you build the same 1 or 2 units every single game and never really get to strategise. What also enraged me is that the back players would have the nerve to make the front player “pay” for their T2 constructor units after working so hard to keep everyone alive, despite everyone knowing the front player has zero resources at any given time because it’s all going into units that are being meat grinded.
  - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
    Mechanics of course depend on the map and meta. However, you cant really go into a 16 player game and expect to get the spot you want. Both backline and front line should be working non-stop and both have a lot to do. It is a sweaty game. Paying for t2 that is usally a noob mistake. High OS play rarely asks, or has a meta for who pay to run specific plays. One of My favorite 40 OS streamers leaves every losing game asking what they could have done better, which I think is a good mentality.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
  - 3mo ago
estearum 3mo ago
It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy whatever the Youtubers figured out.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  > It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves I think they might destroy the streaming/online communities, but I wouldn't say it destroys the game itself. I play BAR, but never with random strangers, the game works fine, but I also don't participate in any "video game" communities or watch/play with streamers, so what you're saying sounds very foreign to me, and is more about the communities than the games themselves.
  - estearum 3mo ago
    I don't see how your comment makes sense. You're not part of any "community" but you also never play with random strangers? I only play public matches with random strangers and this is the feeling. Obviously this wouldn't apply if I had a small community of not-strangers to play with consistently, which you do have but oddly describe as not having a community.
    - falcor84 3mo ago
      Well, while every group of people is definitionally "a community", you can absolutely have your friend group not be part of "the community" of the game. Just like you can have a LAN and not be "on the net", watch implies the internet.
      - estearum 3mo ago
        Uhh if you are playing games consistently with your friends, then they are a community that you're playing with. If what GP is saying is "play with people you know personally and then you won't have to play with people you don't know personally," well, sure. Great insight. Most people don't and can't do that. That's why online matchmaking exists and constitutes 99.999999% of online gameplay.
b3ing 3mo ago
Does it have a solo mode?
- HeavyStorm 3mo ago
  Yes!
- somat 3mo ago
  No campain but there are stand alone scenerios you can play. There is also a fun swarm defense sort of thing(rapters) if you like tower defense style gameplay.
- NortySpock 3mo ago
  BAR does have a series of scenarios for singleplayer / offline play. Or in multiplayer you can arrange a co-operative game with humans against AI opponents, which often has substantially less flaming involved, especially when playing a "survive against an onslaught of enemies" scenario. Also the account system of course allows for muting, avoiding-being-paired-with, or fully blocking players. For more egregious behavior a player can be reported to moderators and temporarily / permanently suspended if they break the community code-of-conduct.
- Teifion 3mo ago
  Yes, it also has a lot of co-op mode and a non-trivial portion of the player base focuses on that instead of PvP/competitive modes.
- PtaQQ 3mo ago
  As other mentioned it has singple player Scenarios and Skirmish mode, including two special tower defense/survival modes. We are also building a dedicated campaign now.
  - kbelder 3mo ago
    I might try it, then; I liked Total Annihilation, but have absolutely no interest in multiplayer online. I think that the passionate fans, that obviously are the ones that drove the creation of this game, may not realize the abundance of more casual players that just want a decent solo experience. It seems I've seen several recreations or homages of games that drop the single-player aspects. Or, creating a decent AI opponent and engaging a story might be really hard.
jpwgarrison 3mo ago
This is a common reaction and the response is common too: this is only the case if you follow the herd to 8v8 and the two club-like maps they fixate on. But if you study the community for 5 minutes first, you can walk past those two “pubs full of toxic jerks fighting” there are a dozen other options. Single player, PvE, 1v1 through 4v4 and FFA. These (smaller) game modes lack the level of drama you see in 8v8. You just have to go into the quiet restaurant with nerds playing chess and other board games instead of the obvious mess of a drunken bar across the street.
- giov4 3mo ago
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PtaQQ 3mo ago
Hey, PtaQ here, BAR’s Community Manager. I’m sorry this was your experience. There are definitely some very competitive lobbies, but harassment is not acceptable. Please report any players involved, as reports are the only way we can identify patterns and take action. We have an active moderation team and do review them. For a more relaxed experience, I’d recommend trying less established meta maps. Lobbies marked “rotato” rotate maps after every game and are usually among the chillest. Players tend to be less rigid about roles and expected builds there, which generally leads to more positive interactions.
- avereveard 3mo ago
  Does BAR have chicken maps?
  - icexuick 3mo ago
    BAR offers some 'hold the fort' maps, where there is a strong/fortifiable area and then the 'outskirts'. These are catered to offer great gameplay for battles against Raptors (previously known as 'chickens') and Scavengers.
    - avereveard 3mo ago
      yeah been away from a while. thanks!
- nekusar 3mo ago
  These days, online public lobbies are almost always hostile. Doesn't matter the game, either. You can ban words, phrases, etc. The hostility is also through actions and not just insults. The only way to have actual fun gaming is a private group of friends. Think lan party, and definitely not public.
  - Teifion 3mo ago
    We have support for a variety of ways to limit who can join you (passwording lobbies, locking lobbies etc). I get a lot of value playing with a regular group of friends on a Sunday night in part because of it.
bavell 3mo ago
Not my experience at all when I played around a year ago. There were plenty of noob-specific / noob-friendly lobbies with a mix of helpful players and fellow casuals.
scotty79 3mo ago
I feel like many team games would benefit from full mute by default. I played Valorant like that for a while and my experience was infinitely better.
sevenzero 3mo ago
Welcome to any competitive game ever... Your team isn't winning within within the first 3 minutes of the game? Better forfeit and go next.
- giov4 3mo ago
  what do you mean? rage quitting within minutes its pretty meaningless and games are often won nevertheless! also I tend to avoid rage quitters exactly for this reason and always play till the end, beside the learning the game is often won anyway, because loosing 1 front due to initial spam does not always represents real advantage. is your statement related to BAR? what was your experience there? or we can assume its a low value general assumption as it looks like?
  - sevenzero 3mo ago
    My statement is related to every competitive game ever. In my experience competitive games are unplayable due to their, well, competitiveness. Videogames are about fun, people dont play for fun, simple as that for me.
antisthenes 3mo ago
This is a classic take by a non-competitive player that would be better suited playing PvE or campaign games. That being said, there's nothing wrong with that. Just understand that when people are trying to win, they have skin in the game, and are investing time and effort to win every game. > Also, one particularly aggravating part of the community is that it’s considered courtesy to surrender once the front line is broken instead of playing the game out and letting the back eco players try and recover it. Yes, it is courtesy not to waste other people's time. Not sure where the controversy is, rather than your misunderstanding. Usually it's quite evident whether the game is lost (again, if you are a somewhat competitive player). > I stopped playing because I felt like I had a lot of negative interactions in every 2nd or 3rd game. You need somewhat of a thick skin to play competitive team games. This goes just as well for more popular games like DoTA or CS2. It just seems you didn't, but it's not the game's fault or its community's.
- Chance-Device 3mo ago
  It’s not the community’s fault for being toxic? Whose fault is it then? God’s? The fabric of reality made you do it?
  - antisthenes 3mo ago
    You really don't understand that some people will interpret any comment in a competitive environment negatively? It's just a bad culture fit. > It’s not the community’s fault for being toxic. What's toxic to A can be good advice to B. With the person saying it being person C.
    - Chance-Device 3mo ago
      It’s not a bad culture fit, how did the culture become toxic to begin with? We have toxic people who perpetuate and defend being toxic. They take over and push out anyone who doesn’t act like them. This is how communities become toxic, and it’s exactly what you are doing now.
      - 3mo ago
stephen_cagle 3mo ago
Context: So I have 3 friends that I have been playing video games with for over 30 years weekly. So we would be playing half (as a team) of a 4v4. Now, we are never going to be competitive, we are basically playing to socialize. Will we be able to play on the "leagues" or whatever they are or will our group just get banned eventually from play? I think we would probably enjoy playing against others, but realistically non of us are sweaty enough to care about being anything beyond good at this (or any) game. Also, we are all (obviously) older adults. None of us really care if the other team is trash talking or being toxic. We are doing the best we can as a team, we are polite to others, if they have are having a breakdown that is a them problem. Also, is there a "casual" league? Or do you all just play laddered and end up paired to people who are similar in ELO to you? Aside: Some of my core memories are setting up "Big Bertha" canons over the entire map to keep my friends at bay. I don't care if it strategically makes sense, it was just fulfilling!
- NortySpock 3mo ago
  I play with my brother and an old friend of mine. I'm getting close to forty. There's no "leagues", it's just lobbies you join, and you gain or loose OS (Elo) per battle. Party up with your friends, find a lobby that says it's for noobs, has some other nonsense in the title ("rotato" is for map rotation) or just seems to have a lot of low-OS players, and have fun. You can avoid or mute/ignore people. Or start your own lobby so you can be boss and set the tone in the title. Spectate a full match or two before you just jump in, to sort of see the pacing. Announce to the team that you are noobs... But yeah, I think it's perfectly possible for old friends to have fun in BAR PvP ranked; you just ignore / tell off the flamers, or bounce to a nicer lobby. Most people are friendly if you are friendly. Heck sometimes the spectators jump into the player chat and banter while the battle rages. And yes, the artillery still hits just as hard as it did before.
  - stephen_cagle 3mo ago
    Awesome, that sounds fun. I'll do as you suggest. And good idea about spectating a match to get the flow of things. That probably will reduce 50% of friction.
cboyardee 3mo ago
[dead]
singingtoday 3mo ago
This mirrors my experience. I still play occasionally, but quickly remember the community isn't it.
LorenPechtel 3mo ago
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hdgvhicv 3mo ago
I used to enjoy TA back in the annihilated.com days. Does this not have stand alone offline story/skirmish modes? Does online with random people not work any more?
MikeTheGreat 3mo ago
I've played beyond all reason for a little bit, although I'm not very good at it. I've managed to avoid toxic lobbies by searching for terms like co-op or noob.
- giov4 3mo ago
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rayiner 3mo ago
This sounds like an arbitrage opportunity.
Wherewolfed 3mo ago
BAR is a deep and challenging game. It's also a team game. If your plan is to jump right into PvP you're going to be deadweight hanging around your team's neck and will rightly be criticized for it. You will never experience toxicity in 1v1 games, and only the normal amount of toxicity for online team games if you can pull your weight. Also, the community rarely surrenders early so OP clearly didn't play that many games and let 1 or 2 lobbies distort their perception of the game. Just remember, if you can't beat the AI, you don't belong in PvP games yet. Take your time, learn patience, walk before you run.
- giov4 3mo ago
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- aetherspawn 3mo ago
  I played for a year, got my friends into BAR, one of them is OS 25 (that’s high) and still plays. We still share this viewpoint with each other which we both agree with.
Melatonic 3mo ago
Sounds awful - do you have to play as a team ?
reactordev 3mo ago
This is by design as it’s built by seniors unwilling to let go of their lawn. It’s a brilliant game, built by jerks. If they truly cared, it would be random spawn somewhere within a polygon of territory.
v3ss0n 3mo ago
I disagree . the best community so far.
- Sabinus 3mo ago
  I agree. It's the robust old-school lobby type community and it's great. Multiple sub communities with different cultures and players depending on the tradition of map type and settings. New or casual players going into the wrong lobbies (non-noob 'All that glitters' lobbies for instance) are going to have a bad time.
  - v3ss0n 3mo ago
    yeah , those who just tried this and went to wrong lobbies i guess. also they havne't play any games for quite a while it seems, they haven't met LoL , CoD communities.
killerstorm 3mo ago
Sorry, but it's just not true. Pretty much the only case I've seen where a person is kicked out is either griefing (deliberately playing bad) or refuse to listen to advice. If you don't know basics there's plenty of opportunities to learn outside of a real match (spectator, bots, special lobbies, etc.) Learning basics during 8v8 match is just extremely disrespectful: you're wasting time of 15 people. I think you missed that part. And JFYI generally high-level lobbies (20+ is) have less drama. So it's mostly beginners having drama between themselves
giov4 3mo ago
Playing RTS since long time, TA to SupCom to FaF, I need to say that I totally understand your condition, especially considering my own experience and evolution on BAR. I've seen lot of new or learning players being disoriented from the start, trolled and attacked during games, even kickbanned because of their sub-optimal playing after being FORCED to play front because of rating and placing/slot login in BAR. While personally having a strong RTS background and even very specific to TA and FaF (basically BAR) I had to went through the same high toxicity problems. The solution has been to don't give up, self learn through pain and few friends tips all the gaming micro details expected by other players and hidden in pro player knowledge. IMHO this happened mainly and simply due to the lack of a well structured and established learning path for new players, that instead of opening a lobby list and joining the heat to get instantly rammed by toxicity should have the possibility to obtain basic game positioning, build and control knowledge in an more appropriate and structured way, in game info guidance on start -> tutorial? Regarding the point of the poor newbie have to go as front player and holding while the pros stay in the back, is still kinda normal since the back positions, as especially the tech ones, are more fundamental later in the game, meaning that having a newbie there would be much worse game wise. and dont forget this is valid only for skill draft mode, there are othe draft modes too, even if the skill one is used "99%" of the time. I find totally off topic and even offensive talking about needing to have had hard skin to go through this toxicity, or referencing completely different game types and generalizing on community and human interaction problems. Again, a new player should have an "onboarding" path easily available and providing necessary basic logic to be able to start decently. And based on long and wide experience this seems to be mainly a BAR problem! While I always heavily appreciate the effort behind such types of games/communities and respect it a lot (due to having done similarly in other game cases) I keep playing, learning and evolving with BAR because I miss TA and FaF BUT I often receive stress and leave after a series of bad toxic matches with "bad back taste" and this is sad for any game and community, abd should be reduced as much as possibly. Sadly I also need to underline that I've personally seen unprofessional and sometimes also abusive or corrupt moderation from staff members, including abusive lobbies or manipulation behind player bans. Hence asking for player reports here doesn't seem decent neither, and a more legit and rock solid moderation could also help in compensating this type of issues. And the last sad cherry (being an OSS enthusiast) is about having heard about strange forks and attribution from past work that leads now to publishers and money being involved, sad feeling but details would be needed before confirming any judgement. I play it, I like it (because of TA and SupremeCommander Forged Alliance) but still (with all due respect for all the members behind and their effort) I often leave with a bitter or fishy back taste leftover by a generally hostile setup and community.
sitzkrieg 3mo ago
if a games competitive scene consists of a small old boys club tier rules do yourself a favor and don’t bother. bar was very much this when i tried it last year. i also got kicked at the start of several games for no apparent obvious reason as a new player lol. very unwelcoming community
Havoc 3mo ago
Yeah the meta tracking does seem quite aggressive. Having everyone’s ranking so visible also doesn’t help imo The frontline & surrender thing seems a bit more reasonable though. Chances of eco players turning around a broken front are basically nil

RugnirViking 3mo ago

Wow, that sounds awful. That's beyond optimising the fun out of a game, it's straight up refusing to have fun. One wonders what they get from it?

scns 3mo ago
Imaginary superiority
tasuki 3mo ago
> That's beyond optimising the fun out of a game I'd even dare to say it's beyond all reason.
embedding-shape 3mo ago
Different people get different things out of video games (and everything, really). For some, the fun is learning, and the game stops being fun when you understand it (this is me). For others, the fun starts after they're learned, and starts being good at it, but still have competition with others. For yet others, mastering it and being the best is the fun. All these groups of people sometimes play in the same lobbies, and what the players "gain" from the session can be very different depending on the person. There is no "right or wrong" way to play video games, or the right/wrong motivation for it, it's just different.
NikolaNovak 3mo ago
My best friend is the great optimizer. In magic the gathering I had dozens of decks trying different things. He had a single deck that he kept tweaking to within the millimetre of perfection. In overwatch, I would play different characters to experience different parts of the game and try different strategies. He played single character for years, with 10 times the hours in that char than I had in all of them combined. Heck even in real life, he was a Java developer for decades whereas I was a type of fleeting sysadmin specifically so I could play with different toys in the stack :). Now, this is a bit side Venn diagram, he'd never be rude on an online game (he does have offline opinions on the meta :). But it let me understand people who have fun in a very different way than I do :). He doesn't see boredom in playing same way over and over (and over and over), I think he sees it as professional athlete being focused and honing their specific craft.
mock-possum 3mo ago
Bullying is a way to have fun. Additionally, some people are desperate for approval, and will even chase being bullied as a way to get attention from others. It’s not exactly a mystery, it’s just sad.
killerstorm 3mo ago
I think the situation aetherspawn is "highest rank in a low-rank lobby", e.g. an experienced player playing together with newbies. That might be a person who's just enjoying executing a specific strategy. True top-tier players are very flexible and love high-risk tactics like flying your commander to enemy base. They also happy to "go next" if something went wrong.

Panzer04 3mo ago

This very much depends on the lobby. I don't think this is unique to BAR either - it's just that 8v8 is the most popular mode. Lots of players mean more chances to get a toxic guy who doesn't recognise their own faults and blames others. I actually just don't really agree about the assertion on player slots. If anything, the better players get the more likely they are to play a front slot, because they have an outside influence on the chances of their team winning.

aetherspawn 3mo ago
My OS floated around 10-15 and I virtually always ended up having to go front in every lobby, which is the position I hate the most because I don’t like playing my strategy game like an RPG - that is, micro-ing just a dozen of units and optimising every rocket or bullet hit or whatever, which is kind of what front is like. Front has zero opportunity or resources available to build any kind of economy, and once the T2 units start coming through from the other side they feel very expendable. As the front player you build the same 1 or 2 units every single game and never really get to strategise. What also enraged me is that the back players would have the nerve to make the front player “pay” for their T2 constructor units after working so hard to keep everyone alive, despite everyone knowing the front player has zero resources at any given time because it’s all going into units that are being meat grinded.
- s1artibartfast 3mo ago
  Mechanics of course depend on the map and meta. However, you cant really go into a 16 player game and expect to get the spot you want. Both backline and front line should be working non-stop and both have a lot to do. It is a sweaty game. Paying for t2 that is usally a noob mistake. High OS play rarely asks, or has a meta for who pay to run specific plays. One of My favorite 40 OS streamers leaves every losing game asking what they could have done better, which I think is a good mentality.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
- 3mo ago

estearum 3mo ago

It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves. Every update to every game launches a large scale effort to find the "meta" which is then instantly disseminated to the most try-hard assholes on the Internet. Anyone who dares to develop their own strategy/style/loadout is up against hordes of people (a growing proportion every day) who just copy whatever the Youtubers figured out.

embedding-shape 3mo ago
> It's amazing the degree to which streaming/online communities around video games have destroyed the games themselves I think they might destroy the streaming/online communities, but I wouldn't say it destroys the game itself. I play BAR, but never with random strangers, the game works fine, but I also don't participate in any "video game" communities or watch/play with streamers, so what you're saying sounds very foreign to me, and is more about the communities than the games themselves.
- estearum 3mo ago
  I don't see how your comment makes sense. You're not part of any "community" but you also never play with random strangers? I only play public matches with random strangers and this is the feeling. Obviously this wouldn't apply if I had a small community of not-strangers to play with consistently, which you do have but oddly describe as not having a community.
  - falcor84 3mo ago
    Well, while every group of people is definitionally "a community", you can absolutely have your friend group not be part of "the community" of the game. Just like you can have a LAN and not be "on the net", watch implies the internet.
    - estearum 3mo ago
      Uhh if you are playing games consistently with your friends, then they are a community that you're playing with. If what GP is saying is "play with people you know personally and then you won't have to play with people you don't know personally," well, sure. Great insight. Most people don't and can't do that. That's why online matchmaking exists and constitutes 99.999999% of online gameplay.

b3ing 3mo ago

Does it have a solo mode?

HeavyStorm 3mo ago
Yes!
somat 3mo ago
No campain but there are stand alone scenerios you can play. There is also a fun swarm defense sort of thing(rapters) if you like tower defense style gameplay.
NortySpock 3mo ago
BAR does have a series of scenarios for singleplayer / offline play. Or in multiplayer you can arrange a co-operative game with humans against AI opponents, which often has substantially less flaming involved, especially when playing a "survive against an onslaught of enemies" scenario. Also the account system of course allows for muting, avoiding-being-paired-with, or fully blocking players. For more egregious behavior a player can be reported to moderators and temporarily / permanently suspended if they break the community code-of-conduct.
Teifion 3mo ago
Yes, it also has a lot of co-op mode and a non-trivial portion of the player base focuses on that instead of PvP/competitive modes.
PtaQQ 3mo ago
As other mentioned it has singple player Scenarios and Skirmish mode, including two special tower defense/survival modes. We are also building a dedicated campaign now.
- kbelder 3mo ago
  I might try it, then; I liked Total Annihilation, but have absolutely no interest in multiplayer online. I think that the passionate fans, that obviously are the ones that drove the creation of this game, may not realize the abundance of more casual players that just want a decent solo experience. It seems I've seen several recreations or homages of games that drop the single-player aspects. Or, creating a decent AI opponent and engaging a story might be really hard.

jpwgarrison 3mo ago

This is a common reaction and the response is common too: this is only the case if you follow the herd to 8v8 and the two club-like maps they fixate on. But if you study the community for 5 minutes first, you can walk past those two “pubs full of toxic jerks fighting” there are a dozen other options. Single player, PvE, 1v1 through 4v4 and FFA. These (smaller) game modes lack the level of drama you see in 8v8. You just have to go into the quiet restaurant with nerds playing chess and other board games instead of the obvious mess of a drunken bar across the street.

giov4 3mo ago
[dead]

PtaQQ 3mo ago

Hey, PtaQ here, BAR’s Community Manager. I’m sorry this was your experience. There are definitely some very competitive lobbies, but harassment is not acceptable. Please report any players involved, as reports are the only way we can identify patterns and take action. We have an active moderation team and do review them. For a more relaxed experience, I’d recommend trying less established meta maps. Lobbies marked “rotato” rotate maps after every game and are usually among the chillest. Players tend to be less rigid about roles and expected builds there, which generally leads to more positive interactions.

avereveard 3mo ago
Does BAR have chicken maps?
- icexuick 3mo ago
  BAR offers some 'hold the fort' maps, where there is a strong/fortifiable area and then the 'outskirts'. These are catered to offer great gameplay for battles against Raptors (previously known as 'chickens') and Scavengers.
  - avereveard 3mo ago
    yeah been away from a while. thanks!
nekusar 3mo ago
These days, online public lobbies are almost always hostile. Doesn't matter the game, either. You can ban words, phrases, etc. The hostility is also through actions and not just insults. The only way to have actual fun gaming is a private group of friends. Think lan party, and definitely not public.
- Teifion 3mo ago
  We have support for a variety of ways to limit who can join you (passwording lobbies, locking lobbies etc). I get a lot of value playing with a regular group of friends on a Sunday night in part because of it.

bavell 3mo ago

Not my experience at all when I played around a year ago. There were plenty of noob-specific / noob-friendly lobbies with a mix of helpful players and fellow casuals.

scotty79 3mo ago

I feel like many team games would benefit from full mute by default. I played Valorant like that for a while and my experience was infinitely better.

sevenzero 3mo ago

Welcome to any competitive game ever... Your team isn't winning within within the first 3 minutes of the game? Better forfeit and go next.

giov4 3mo ago
what do you mean? rage quitting within minutes its pretty meaningless and games are often won nevertheless! also I tend to avoid rage quitters exactly for this reason and always play till the end, beside the learning the game is often won anyway, because loosing 1 front due to initial spam does not always represents real advantage. is your statement related to BAR? what was your experience there? or we can assume its a low value general assumption as it looks like?
- sevenzero 3mo ago
  My statement is related to every competitive game ever. In my experience competitive games are unplayable due to their, well, competitiveness. Videogames are about fun, people dont play for fun, simple as that for me.

antisthenes 3mo ago

This is a classic take by a non-competitive player that would be better suited playing PvE or campaign games. That being said, there's nothing wrong with that. Just understand that when people are trying to win, they have skin in the game, and are investing time and effort to win every game. > Also, one particularly aggravating part of the community is that it’s considered courtesy to surrender once the front line is broken instead of playing the game out and letting the back eco players try and recover it. Yes, it is courtesy not to waste other people's time. Not sure where the controversy is, rather than your misunderstanding. Usually it's quite evident whether the game is lost (again, if you are a somewhat competitive player). > I stopped playing because I felt like I had a lot of negative interactions in every 2nd or 3rd game. You need somewhat of a thick skin to play competitive team games. This goes just as well for more popular games like DoTA or CS2. It just seems you didn't, but it's not the game's fault or its community's.

Chance-Device 3mo ago
It’s not the community’s fault for being toxic? Whose fault is it then? God’s? The fabric of reality made you do it?
- antisthenes 3mo ago
  You really don't understand that some people will interpret any comment in a competitive environment negatively? It's just a bad culture fit. > It’s not the community’s fault for being toxic. What's toxic to A can be good advice to B. With the person saying it being person C.
  - Chance-Device 3mo ago
    It’s not a bad culture fit, how did the culture become toxic to begin with? We have toxic people who perpetuate and defend being toxic. They take over and push out anyone who doesn’t act like them. This is how communities become toxic, and it’s exactly what you are doing now.
    - 3mo ago

stephen_cagle 3mo ago

Context: So I have 3 friends that I have been playing video games with for over 30 years weekly. So we would be playing half (as a team) of a 4v4. Now, we are never going to be competitive, we are basically playing to socialize. Will we be able to play on the "leagues" or whatever they are or will our group just get banned eventually from play? I think we would probably enjoy playing against others, but realistically non of us are sweaty enough to care about being anything beyond good at this (or any) game. Also, we are all (obviously) older adults. None of us really care if the other team is trash talking or being toxic. We are doing the best we can as a team, we are polite to others, if they have are having a breakdown that is a them problem. Also, is there a "casual" league? Or do you all just play laddered and end up paired to people who are similar in ELO to you? Aside: Some of my core memories are setting up "Big Bertha" canons over the entire map to keep my friends at bay. I don't care if it strategically makes sense, it was just fulfilling!

NortySpock 3mo ago
I play with my brother and an old friend of mine. I'm getting close to forty. There's no "leagues", it's just lobbies you join, and you gain or loose OS (Elo) per battle. Party up with your friends, find a lobby that says it's for noobs, has some other nonsense in the title ("rotato" is for map rotation) or just seems to have a lot of low-OS players, and have fun. You can avoid or mute/ignore people. Or start your own lobby so you can be boss and set the tone in the title. Spectate a full match or two before you just jump in, to sort of see the pacing. Announce to the team that you are noobs... But yeah, I think it's perfectly possible for old friends to have fun in BAR PvP ranked; you just ignore / tell off the flamers, or bounce to a nicer lobby. Most people are friendly if you are friendly. Heck sometimes the spectators jump into the player chat and banter while the battle rages. And yes, the artillery still hits just as hard as it did before.
- stephen_cagle 3mo ago
  Awesome, that sounds fun. I'll do as you suggest. And good idea about spectating a match to get the flow of things. That probably will reduce 50% of friction.

cboyardee 3mo ago

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singingtoday 3mo ago

This mirrors my experience. I still play occasionally, but quickly remember the community isn't it.

LorenPechtel 3mo ago

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hdgvhicv 3mo ago

I used to enjoy TA back in the annihilated.com days. Does this not have stand alone offline story/skirmish modes? Does online with random people not work any more?

MikeTheGreat 3mo ago

I've played beyond all reason for a little bit, although I'm not very good at it. I've managed to avoid toxic lobbies by searching for terms like co-op or noob.

giov4 3mo ago
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rayiner 3mo ago

This sounds like an arbitrage opportunity.

Wherewolfed 3mo ago

BAR is a deep and challenging game. It's also a team game. If your plan is to jump right into PvP you're going to be deadweight hanging around your team's neck and will rightly be criticized for it. You will never experience toxicity in 1v1 games, and only the normal amount of toxicity for online team games if you can pull your weight. Also, the community rarely surrenders early so OP clearly didn't play that many games and let 1 or 2 lobbies distort their perception of the game. Just remember, if you can't beat the AI, you don't belong in PvP games yet. Take your time, learn patience, walk before you run.

giov4 3mo ago
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aetherspawn 3mo ago
I played for a year, got my friends into BAR, one of them is OS 25 (that’s high) and still plays. We still share this viewpoint with each other which we both agree with.

Melatonic 3mo ago

Sounds awful - do you have to play as a team ?

reactordev 3mo ago

This is by design as it’s built by seniors unwilling to let go of their lawn. It’s a brilliant game, built by jerks. If they truly cared, it would be random spawn somewhere within a polygon of territory.

v3ss0n 3mo ago

I disagree . the best community so far.

Sabinus 3mo ago
I agree. It's the robust old-school lobby type community and it's great. Multiple sub communities with different cultures and players depending on the tradition of map type and settings. New or casual players going into the wrong lobbies (non-noob 'All that glitters' lobbies for instance) are going to have a bad time.
- v3ss0n 3mo ago
  yeah , those who just tried this and went to wrong lobbies i guess. also they havne't play any games for quite a while it seems, they haven't met LoL , CoD communities.

killerstorm 3mo ago

Sorry, but it's just not true. Pretty much the only case I've seen where a person is kicked out is either griefing (deliberately playing bad) or refuse to listen to advice. If you don't know basics there's plenty of opportunities to learn outside of a real match (spectator, bots, special lobbies, etc.) Learning basics during 8v8 match is just extremely disrespectful: you're wasting time of 15 people. I think you missed that part. And JFYI generally high-level lobbies (20+ is) have less drama. So it's mostly beginners having drama between themselves

giov4 3mo ago

Playing RTS since long time, TA to SupCom to FaF, I need to say that I totally understand your condition, especially considering my own experience and evolution on BAR. I've seen lot of new or learning players being disoriented from the start, trolled and attacked during games, even kickbanned because of their sub-optimal playing after being FORCED to play front because of rating and placing/slot login in BAR. While personally having a strong RTS background and even very specific to TA and FaF (basically BAR) I had to went through the same high toxicity problems. The solution has been to don't give up, self learn through pain and few friends tips all the gaming micro details expected by other players and hidden in pro player knowledge. IMHO this happened mainly and simply due to the lack of a well structured and established learning path for new players, that instead of opening a lobby list and joining the heat to get instantly rammed by toxicity should have the possibility to obtain basic game positioning, build and control knowledge in an more appropriate and structured way, in game info guidance on start -> tutorial? Regarding the point of the poor newbie have to go as front player and holding while the pros stay in the back, is still kinda normal since the back positions, as especially the tech ones, are more fundamental later in the game, meaning that having a newbie there would be much worse game wise. and dont forget this is valid only for skill draft mode, there are othe draft modes too, even if the skill one is used "99%" of the time. I find totally off topic and even offensive talking about needing to have had hard skin to go through this toxicity, or referencing completely different game types and generalizing on community and human interaction problems. Again, a new player should have an "onboarding" path easily available and providing necessary basic logic to be able to start decently. And based on long and wide experience this seems to be mainly a BAR problem! While I always heavily appreciate the effort behind such types of games/communities and respect it a lot (due to having done similarly in other game cases) I keep playing, learning and evolving with BAR because I miss TA and FaF BUT I often receive stress and leave after a series of bad toxic matches with "bad back taste" and this is sad for any game and community, abd should be reduced as much as possibly. Sadly I also need to underline that I've personally seen unprofessional and sometimes also abusive or corrupt moderation from staff members, including abusive lobbies or manipulation behind player bans. Hence asking for player reports here doesn't seem decent neither, and a more legit and rock solid moderation could also help in compensating this type of issues. And the last sad cherry (being an OSS enthusiast) is about having heard about strange forks and attribution from past work that leads now to publishers and money being involved, sad feeling but details would be needed before confirming any judgement. I play it, I like it (because of TA and SupremeCommander Forged Alliance) but still (with all due respect for all the members behind and their effort) I often leave with a bitter or fishy back taste leftover by a generally hostile setup and community.

sitzkrieg 3mo ago

if a games competitive scene consists of a small old boys club tier rules do yourself a favor and don’t bother. bar was very much this when i tried it last year. i also got kicked at the start of several games for no apparent obvious reason as a new player lol. very unwelcoming community

Havoc 3mo ago

Yeah the meta tracking does seem quite aggressive. Having everyone’s ranking so visible also doesn’t help imo The frontline & surrender thing seems a bit more reasonable though. Chances of eco players turning around a broken front are basically nil