12 ms·

I created Perfect Wiki and reached $250k in annual revenue without investors

721 points by sochix 1y ago

lovegrenoble 1y ago
Congrats!
gadders 1y ago
Looks like a great product and congratulations on your success. I miss the days when HN was more stories like this of people using their expertise to make money - whether it was code, book launches, writing courses etc. Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted?
- freetonik 1y ago
  There's limited space on the front page, and the topic of AI is so prevalent, it occupies a lot, every day. Right now 10 out of 30 stories on the front page are about AI and LLMs.
  - catlikesshrimp 1y ago
    I prefer AI both raw material and recycled garbage than the cryptocoin epidemy from recent years.
  - gadders 1y ago
    I wouldn't mind if it was "Here is how I got to $250k ARR with my self-funded AI startup" :-)
  - dmos62 1y ago
    To be fair, more than 1/3 of my technical thoughts involve ai these days.
  - -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
    Yeah, it's a Trump-related political outrage, or it's an AI thing. I feel anecdotally like the AI-related things are even more prevalent, but would love to see some data on it. The Trump stuff seems to get flagged very much, and the AI stuff, very litle. It's heady times, anyway, that's for sure.
    - -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
      Actually, I should say, using https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active to see flagged stuff too is great. Not sure if you see everything, but I definitely am more interested in a less curated frontpage. I don't find ignoring headlines I'm not interested in to be such a major affront to my sensibilities.
    - bigstrat2003 1y ago
      > The Trump stuff seems to get flagged very much, and the AI stuff, very litle. Speaking personally, I flag the political posts and not the AI posts because the political posts always turn into flame wars. AI posts do not, so I leave them be (even though I don't personally like them).
      - -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
        Hmmm. Is there a statement of HN policy somewhere about that? Or is this just a thing you decided to do on your own accord? No judgment, just curious. I presume you've reflected on the idea that one person's flame war is another person's gentle exchange of opinion. I can see what you're saying though, and I have seen discussions where I've thought "oook, don't really understand what these people think they're achieving", but I wouldn't say I've seen anything horrendous. I mean, individual horrific comments get quickly flagged to death. Why bother flagging the whole topic? Why not simply not investigate those threads?
        satvikpendem 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html mentions not to use HN for political or ideological battle.
    - stevage 1y ago
      >but would love to see some data on it. There was a great post by someone who did some analysis on HN content, just yesterday. Can't remember keywords to find it though.
- sochix 1y ago
  My story on the first page, so I guess people still loves success-stories ;)
  - gadders 1y ago
    Yes, but maybe this rose-tinted glasses, but it seems like every week we would have a story like yours, an essay from Patio11 on how much money Bingo Cards are making, Nathan Barry talking about how a book launch earnt him $50k in a weekend, Brennan Dunn launching a course for 5 figures etc.
- YetAnotherNick 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - sochix 1y ago
    Maybe! But on the other side I can work when and how I want, it's a big bonus as for me.
    - sirfz 1y ago
      This bonus is priceless tbh congrats on your success and hope you'll never need to work for anyone
    - YetAnotherNick 1y ago
      I also love side projects and have done a few. What I was commenting on is "people using their expertise to make money". For me it's more of the opposite. I could have earned way more in traditional things but I do side project because I can select what I want to do.
  - bboygravity 1y ago
    It is if you live outside of the US or if you'd never make it into a FAANG, because of lack of credentials and/or connections. Or. If you like the idea of having no boss, no standup meetings, no Jira, no commutes, no open office plan, etc.
  - 0_____0 1y ago
    Not bad when the median salary is equivalent to 600$/mo
  - naughtyfinch 1y ago
    Nothing beats the freedom and fulfillment of owning and operating your own business. A job at a FAANG company with a high salary is so overrated. I know, since I have worked in multiple FAANG companies over the last 12 years.
    - sochix 1y ago
- cornholio 1y ago
  Well, perhaps people see such success stories for what they are, well curated commodity flowers in the walled gardens of the major players, who will not hesitate to pluck them the instant they threaten to have any kind of uncontrolled growth. It's "ISVs" all over again, commoditization of complements etcetera, the tech molemen that serve the big machines. AI looks to many as a wall buster, at least for the time being, so even if breakout success is unlikely you can't blame people for at least trying to escape the underground caverns where the "widely successful" ceiling is capped at perhaps reaching a FAANG manager level of compensation.
  - pjc50 1y ago
    > AI looks to many as a wall buster Hmm. I see a lot of people trying to build products on top of models trained by other people, which seems very vulnerable.
    - detourdog 1y ago
      I think what that is demonstrating is that models are commodity objects. The model factory may have a value. I think it would need a specialized context. It would need a market large enough to support it and small enough to keep the context out of the mainstream. My guess is this will always be a moving target. The consumer will choose models based on their value proposition. We all have to start our sandcastle somewhere.
    - Perz1val 1y ago
      Using silicon chips manufactured in like 3 fabs
- apercu 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - monkeywork 1y ago
    >it bothered me because I come here to get away from all the propaganda. Somehow, I doubt this statement is true, given the rest of your post, which was in no way adding to the conversation, is exactly the sort of propaganda you claim to try and get away from. >We have to educate and inform. Which you did not do in any stretch of the words - all you did was add noise.
    - cdelsolar 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - zahlman 1y ago
        >And now that we are Nothing of the sort is occurring here. In the part of the HN guidelines where it says: > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. A big part of the reason for that is that habitually doing things like that tends to blind one to reality.
        cdelsolar 1y ago
        How are the things I mentioned not real? I didn't say that we are talking about those semantic arguments on this Hacker News thread, I'm talking about the world outside of that.
        zahlman 1y ago
        I've been here since August and I haven't seen anything that even remotely resembles > semantic arguments about why it’s ok for ICE to bust down random doors looking for brown people to deport to the death camps If you feel you have, I humbly suggest you go back and re-evaluate whatever it was that you read. Keep in mind that in order to qualify as such, the other party would have to agree with you that ICE's actions could be fairly described as such, in every aspect.
- kryogen1c 1y ago
  > Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted? I'll speak as someone who is part of the problem. As groucho Marx says, I wouldn't want to be a part of any club that will have me as a member! HN is a victim of its own popularity. Things just get diluted and more mainstreamy by people like me, who are perhaps hackers in spirit but don't have much to show for it. I work in IT at an international company everyone knows the name of. I've got a garden and there are meals in my fridge made of meat from pigs I raised. I've got furniture in my house my wife and I made years ago in a different state. I'll submit random articles, but never a show HN. How could I? Woodgearsca built a woodworking shop out of his woodworking shop. No one cares about the tables I built. I try to speak only when I know I can contribute, but im very unsure i raise the quality here.
  - kaonwarb 1y ago
    I would upvote interesting Show HNs about, say, raising pigs! I like learning from folks with firsthand knowledge.
    - mbreese 1y ago
      Or about building tables… I don’t think hacking has to exclusively be about programming and computers. If you submit a story about raising pigs or building a table on a weekend, it would probably get a lot of interaction. Please think about doing it. I’d love to hear the story!
  - vintagedave 1y ago
    You might be surprised what you could contribute. I've submitted articles that I thought were really valuable, and never had any success [0] (maybe the first is too business-y, not hacker-ish, but I genuinely believe what I wrote there matters and it's worth understanding, at least in the sense it was transformative for me when I did understand it) and then an article on a random weekend project a friend and I did made the top five on the front page [1] and stayed there for ages. People very much just might care about the tables you make! Especially if you can share something you learned. [0]: https://daveon.design/what-are-you-optimising-for.html https://daveon.design/what-are-you-optimising-for.html and https://daveon.design/creating-joy-in-the-user-experience.html https://daveon.design/creating-joy-in-the-user-experience.ht... [1]: https://daveon.design/adventures-making-vegemite.html https://daveon.design/adventures-making-vegemite.html
- deadbabe 1y ago
  It used to be easier to use expertise to make money, now you need to use expertise just to get by.
  - bredren 1y ago
    I was not expecting this comment here but it tracks with my observations. Things that previously could be taken for granted now require applied thought and physical capability. For example, people regularly ask how to find reasonably priced housing in /r/askPortland. The OP usually mentions constant looking at Zillow and other sites / apps. Very, very few good deals will be found there because the marketplace is too fluid and too accessible. You gotta hustle on the ground in the neighborhood you want to be in to find the best housing compromises. Used to be you could wing it on craigslist. From concert tickets to new Nike shoes, you want a good seat / common size? How about a nice family campsite? Well you better have set up automation. It’s to the point where public swim lessons can’t be got without a bot. Unless, you go to the pool and ask about lessons not scheduled on the internet. It is an absolute hustle, across the minor daily desires of good things and experiences. Those products rejected by the most motivated get binned into some consultant optimized vertically integrated reseller. The services get marketed heavily with dark patterns just to cancel their membership. It is tough out there.
    - deadbabe 1y ago
      thank you for the reply, it feels good for others to understand
- devsda 1y ago
  > Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted? The popular keywords for some time have been AI, Trump, Russia, Ukraine. As these are hot topics, the "Hacker" part of HN has taken a noticeable backseat. There are still interesting submissions but they don't reach the front page that often. For example, there's a huge thread on this very post about the source site because of its supposed origins.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- bredren 1y ago
  There is good reason why these posts don’t regularly make front page. The genre of content is regularly abused by hypesters. There is a forum / podcast dedicated to this kind of success story and it is just massive cheerleading and success bias. If you go look for it, you’ll find it. HN readers achieving this success either don’t need or don’t want the attention that might come with this kind of content marketing. It’s much more interesting to learn about detailed technical solutions engineering and the SOTA.
  - camdenreslink 1y ago
    Are you talking about Indie Hackers? Why speak in riddles, it isn't a secret.
    - heromal 1y ago
      I also was confused by why he was being so cryptic about a very popular forum.
- stevoski 1y ago
  If you get a one- or two-person SaaS to $10K MMR, and then tell the detailed story in places like HN, you get copycatted many times. People will reproduce what you made - to the pixel. It is really, really frustrating. Founders who have experienced this learn to avoid sharing the stories on HN, etc.
ethn 1y ago
Good work, there are plenty of businesses like this for the pickings exactly because they are not VC investable.
edg5000 1y ago
Keep that surplush cash in the business with a window of a few years to absorb any downturn, don't get a Bugatti :) Not that I am qualified to provide advice on this topic. Great success story.
- sochix 1y ago
  Thank you!
PeterStuer 1y ago
Did you get any corporate or MS celebrity endorsement early on? In my limited experience this seemed key to bootstrap you on the store.
- sochix 1y ago
  Nope! It was all done organically
DataDaemon 1y ago
Where data are stored? How safe are they?
- sochix 1y ago
  I am using Google Cloud Platform to store the data
  - Calwestjobs 1y ago
    kidnapping your family in Russia makes you vulnerable, what precautions do you take so i can be sure Russian government can not get to my data thru you ? Reason why i am asking this : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/30/inside-taganrog-beatings-electrocution-and-starvation-at-prison-where-ukrainians-were-tortured https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/30/inside-taganro...
    - unmole 1y ago
      Delusions of grandeur much?
      - Calwestjobs 1y ago
        Yes, Putin is dictator he has delusions of grandeur. (this is not sarcasm, im just taking your nearsighted worldview as a joke.) If you think im exaggerating than educate yourself on matter more then 2 minutes of googling. Situation is simple. Question: does russian establishemnt attacks European and USA infrastructure? Answer: Yes. If you genuinely asking about delusions of grandeur then your answer to that question is no. So who does have delusions? Pure logic.
        unmole 1y ago
        If you think Putin is going to kidnap someone's family to force a developer to hand over data that you put into a MS Teams wiki, you certainly have delusions of grandeur.
RandomWorker 1y ago
What I took away from this story is that I forget that there are ecosystems outside the Apple App Store. I’ve become so accustomed to thinking of releasing on Apple first that I didn’t even know you could make money through Teams addons.
- sochix 1y ago
  Yep, Teams store is a hidden gem.
- xyst 1y ago
  You can make money through anything that has a decent market size. Slack addons or plugins used to be a good example before it was acquired by Salesforce.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    what else is there then? google, microsoft, apple, some chinese companies. can't think of anything else with a large market for apps.
    - Suppafly 1y ago
      roblox :) Honestly though anything with a lot of users typically either has a way to make money selling addons, or by hosting your own content related to their product, like wikis and leaderboards and such.
      - bemmu 1y ago
        There’s even a niche within Roblox, which is making plugins for the IDE used for making games for it, Roblox Studio. There’s a built-in marketplace where you can charge money for them.
    - unmole 1y ago
      Shopify, Wordpress
    - 1y ago
1a527dd5 1y ago
I love this story, so happy for your success. It reads great, and makes me feel great (oddly - maybe it gives me a sense of hope I can do the same thing one day). Congrats!
- sochix 1y ago
  Thank you! I think you could do it, just ship something today!
kgeist 1y ago
>Currently, the team behind Perfect Wiki is just two people. I handle the development and product, and my colleague manages user support Good product, but I'm concerned about relying on something developed essentially by a single person due to the bus factor... If it's open-source, that's fine — we can fork it if needed. But if it's a SaaS product, what happens if something happens to the developer? Will all my data be lost? Then again, one of the tools we used before was discontinued despite being developed by a fairly large team...
- apples_oranges 1y ago
  Exactly, it can also happen with larger companies and if the creator here decides to step back for Example he might organize some sort of continuity by selling the product or hiring someone to maintain it
- gmm1990 1y ago
  They seem focused and dont have and debt or funding burdens. There risk of something catastrophic happening to an individual is lower than the average business going out of business. Some sort of data and data structure export/external backup would be a good feature though if it doesn’t already exist
  - Y_Y 1y ago
    But if I depend on a business making a critical tool, and am paying for the pleasure, then my prior for their going out of business decreases greatly. Their susceptibility to bus attacks remains unchanged however.
naughtyfinch 1y ago
Congratulations! Great work so far. I too have been looking to do something like this for a long time now. The biggest challenge for me is that I am locked into the golden handcuffs that FAANG companies put on you. Guess I will wait till I get laid off. I don't have the guts to resign and follow my dream (heavy sigh)
naghing 1y ago
This seems like a commercial for the product. Why is this front page HN?
- nlitened 1y ago
  Sir, this is a forum for people who make things
  - Calwestjobs 1y ago
    Every talent needs to be helped to grow, make all kinds of peoples life easier, so democracy invites everyone with good will to do that in west. Making Russia stronger means making west weaker. Because russian "government". After russian people get rid of their murderous gov...
- Calwestjobs 1y ago
  For ordinary US citizen without a broad worldview, this thing i wrote seem like writings of a mad man. As Kennedys presidential address says: "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." My duty is to warn ordinary citizens, this is it, you were warned. answer to your question follows: because product is Russian, programmers are Russian, so your data will be under influence of Russian government directly or indirectly - his family is in Russia. so HN bots want to be edgy but failed to comprehend that Russian regime IS directly involved in making life for US citizens difficult, even tho Russian regime had 20 years worth of chances to not do that, not be bad actor, but they did not want that. they want to be bad actor and they act as bad actor. im not saying anything about Colonial Pipeline attack of course that would be silly. Russian people are not outsiders, they are complicit in Russians regime activities. but it is so hard to explain this to people because even XTwitter is allowing Russian propaganda / soft power activities of Russia unimpeded. Also a lot of Israeli people have family, ancestors in Russia so they project their feelings for them, towards Russia uncritically. Russia is not democracy, Russia is not USA. Russia IS Russian people. Russia IS acting as a bad actor so call it as it act as.
  - 1y ago
Orygin 1y ago
Congrats on the success, but I feel like you hit gold because MS has little to no interest in providing actual good software for their users. Hopefully for you that stays that way and you can maybe expand to other areas where they come short (basically anything in Teams)
- sochix 1y ago
  Agreed!
- hampowder 1y ago
  You state it as if it were a coincidence. The important point is that the author identified the problem and filled the gap. > I started reading forums, comments, and online discussions. It turned out the built-in Wiki in Microsoft Teams annoyed users really a lot.
  - Orygin 1y ago
    I admit I didn't read the entirety of the post, but I read the following: > Many of our clients came to us after trying the Microsoft built-in Wiki. It was clunky, inconvenient, and didn’t do the job well. We focused on simplicity: the essential features only, nothing extra — and everything should function inside Microsoft Teams. So I know it wasn't a coincidence, and rarely are such software built without understanding the needs first. I just wanted to point out that in this case, the business relies on Microsoft not doing a proper job. Otherwise they would be at a serious risk of being Sherlocked by the provider.
    - darkwater 1y ago
      They already expanded it to Slack and other platforms.
      - Orygin 1y ago
        Slack is, I think, mainly focused on the messaging and relies on third parties to integrate other features. Microsoft is a behemoth that wants to sell their complete software suite and tries to integrate all of them together for a "seamless" experience. They do have an incentive for their own products to be good and used instead of third parties. Plus once they realize how much data is in these wikis, they will want to ingest them for AI (if not already done), so there is an incentive for them to have more users on their solution instead. Edit: And even if the OP is not relying only on MS for sales, they still depend heavily on them and their App Store. They are not competing with Confluence or other systems, they are competing with Teams itself.
gabrielcrist 1y ago
[dead]
jen729w 1y ago
Honestly the most admirable part is shipping a Teams app. I’ve been down that rabbit-hole and Je-sus what a horrific experience. Never again.
- iJohnDoe 1y ago
  Can you elaborate a bit? Been tossing around the idea of doing a Teams app. What were the challenges?
  - dabbz 1y ago
    Used to work for a company that owned a Teams extension. Teams updates will just randomly break your extension behavior without any warning or heads up. The migration to their "new teams" app was brutal. Their SDK is built into 2 view render portions. 1 for in-message rendering using their own markup syntax for structuring views, and another that's just a web browser. So if you want to share components between 1 for messages and another for your pane, you can't. Ingesting events is not very well defined. Everything gets sent to 2 endpoints you define and it's up to you to determine how to handle it. Just some of the issues I came across in my short time at the company.
  - jen729w 1y ago
    None of the onboarding material actually works. I guess because it’s all based on Azure/Entra which changes so frequently. So there’s videos, articles, VSC extensions, all to help you navigate this Byzantine structure. But they’re all just wrong. Look I’m not a pro dev so YMMV. Kick the tyres for a few days and see if you can get it to do anything. I never could, and the experience was just no fun at all. At least with web dev, that I’m also no good at, it can be fun. Teams was like pulling my own nails out.
  - 9dev 1y ago
    Tried to build a teams chatbot for our org. There are five different official starter templates, none of which work, but all use different outdated versions of the Microsoft packages required. They point to documentation that is missing (like 404 missing), outdated, containing code samples that don’t match the SDKs; the build fails after startup, or only works together with a VS Code extension. Tasks require an obscene amount of boilerplate code that is never really explained; configuration options are not properly documented, sometimes the types are broken. Everything you could imagine being wrong with an enterprise JavaScript package and much more is in that hellish rabbit hole.
keepamovin 1y ago
This is cool, I never even heard of MS Team's marketplace. My wife uses Teams a lot for work and likes it. I should put BrowserBox on there. I need marketing ideas. The way he did product research to find out what customers really needed, after testing the waters with a translator, was really good. Definition of make something people want. Classic way business has always been created, by keen observation of the market. Well done!
- sochix 1y ago
  thank you!
  - keepamovin 1y ago
    You're welcome - it's inspiring :) Thanks for the write up!
TiredOfLife 1y ago
BRB. Installing russian knowledge management software on internal servers.
- bestest 1y ago
  Author also mentions his thoughts on expanding to the russian market. So many red flags here. Pun intended.
ThunderSizzle 1y ago
Congratulations on your achievement. However, this is one of my frustrations about Teams - it absolutely sucks, and what few integrations it has from Microsoft absolutely sucks. You are already paying too much to MS for it to not be working properly. God knows how much my company is giving to Microsoft for us to have crappy and expensive (read: time wasting) experiences with Teams, Windows 11 onboarding, Azure DevOps (better than what wr had, at least), Visual Studio 2022, etc.
- sochix 1y ago
  At least there is a lot of room for improvement for entrepreneurs likes me ;)
- doix 1y ago
  In my (admittedly very limited) experience, Teams was almost free when you're already paying for microsoft 365. At least last time I had any involvement with it, the price difference between having teams in the bundle or not was negligible. It makes it cheaper than any competitor. Now in reality, I think the true cost is hidden by the frustration it causes (some?) users, but it's very hard to quantify that in a dollar amount. Which is why companies stick with Teams.
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    The hidden cost is also the removal of competition. Google get more heat for browser "monopoly" when they even provide a free browser base for others to customise, and Microsoft gets almost none for incredibly overwhelmingly anti-competitive behaviour around lock-in to Office, Teams, Sharepoint, Azure.
    - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
      Microsoft charged with EU antitrust violations for bundling Teams (The Verge, 25 Jun 2024) – https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/25/24185467/microsoft-teams-eu-bundling-antitrust-violations https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/25/24185467/microsoft-teams-...
zerr 1y ago
Related: Had anyone had any success with (selling) Skype Add-ins/Plug-ins or whatever it was called? :)
angusb 1y ago
Congrats, this is a great story! One small thing: > Every time I check out competitors' sites — those who also build knowledge base or customer support platforms — I notice something odd. Almost all of them use third-party tools like Intercom or Zendesk to support their own customers. That surprises me. If your product is so great — why don’t you use it yourself? For me, that’s a golden rule: your product should be so good you want to use it yourself. If not, that means something’s wrong. Is this not just because Intercom and Zendesk have their own ticketing systems tightly integrated to the docs? Integrating the two allows e.g. customer query auto-reply based on RAG with the documentation, or auto-replying with the 3 support articles most likely to solve the problem. I assume Perfect Wiki has no equivalent ticket integration?
- angusb 1y ago
  BTW - I see you have a LLM answering questions based on your docs on the help pages (which is great). So really I mean for customer support issues that are raised outside this channel
- sochix 1y ago
  Not yet, but it is in our roadmap
- 1oooqooq 1y ago
  because internal ones are about knowledge, external ones are about driving sales and reducing support costs.
- dabbz 1y ago
  I also see it as a contingency plan. How do customers get help from you if your service has interrupted downtime? Relying on separate systems helps you be available still. It's one of those things that is not a problem until it's a problem.
- jd3 1y ago
  When working for my former employer, we rolled our own help center, but after awhile, it was deemed easier and cheaper to just cut it and transfer everything to zendesk.
ph4evers 1y ago
Congrats on the success! Are you not afraid that MS ships a wiki upgrade at a certain point?
- rurban 1y ago
  Given the state of the typical Microsoft PM he will be safe. They'll always prefer more features over a fast UX. Even if there will a fast enough teams wiki one day, the next PM will butcher it to death again.
- rk06 1y ago
  Ms already has onenote and loop. So another new product is unlikely to be come, let alone compete
- imtringued 1y ago
  It's more likely that they just acquire Perfect Wiki and integrate it directly.
nottorp 1y ago
> Currently, the team behind Perfect Wiki is just two people. It would have been 20 people if investors were brought in. Missed opportunity! Edit: forgot to mention that it would have had the same revenue and been a failure :)
- parrit 1y ago
  It wouldn't exist at all. It isn't AI.
  - sciurus 1y ago
    By my count they mention AI seventeen times on their homepage. https://perfectwikiforteams.com/ https://perfectwikiforteams.com/
    - nottorp 1y ago
      Plus, what will the other 18 people on the team do? Burn their cash using and inserting "AI".
  - cess11 1y ago
    Judging from their web site, so called AI is at the center of their offering. https://perfectwikiforteams.com/ https://perfectwikiforteams.com/
igtztorrero 1y ago
Perfect Wiki = Perfect History for a coder: He lost his job and looked for ways to make other people's lives easier in a growing niche market. Perfect Receipt. Congratulations
- sochix 1y ago
  thank you!
sam_lowry_ 1y ago
Dunno about the author, but linking to habr.com is bad taste at best. This is the biggest Russian IT resource that contributes to the Russian economy and thus to the war effort. By comparison, I unpublished everything there and asked to delete my account in Feb, 2022, just after the full-fledged invasion of Ukraine started.
- parrit 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - sam_lowry_ 1y ago
    I don't. Neither does my current client. Actually, I wonder if I should start a consulting business to help others clear the skies from US clouds. Anyone? /s
  - regnull 1y ago
    Ah yes, classic. Here's a helpful guide: - This never happened - They deserved it - They did it themselves - What about Iraq?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- moralestapia 1y ago
  Let's focus on the content rather than the form. Similar things could be said about the US, excluding 90% of websites.
- toenail 1y ago
  I guess I should delete my hn account. They pay taxes in the US which is used to fund countless wars all over the world.
  - sixQuarks 1y ago
    [flagged]
parrit 1y ago
Well done. No mean fear getting to 250k. I hope you can get to 1M as hiring people with just 250K is challenging (unless you are not paying yourself).
- vlovich123 1y ago
  He’s in Russia where it’s a lot more doable.
moralestapia 1y ago
> My assumptions were confirmed — people were actively looking for an alternative to the built-in Wiki, and they searched for it directly in the Teams marketplace. They found my app using the keyword “wiki.” It was an awesome free acquisition channel. This is the money quote for me.
pantulis 1y ago
I think the overall consensus would be being cautious of creating a product on top of a third party platform and marketplace, worse it being MS itself. But! If this is a one person team, I think this is exactly the other way around and basing the product on top of Teams is unbelievably competitive to the point that if MS shuts you down in a couple of years you can still have made a profit.
cess11 1y ago
"We're committed to compliance with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and have implemented a wide range of technical and organizational measures." Kind of iffy claim when you're on GCP, especially since the current president wrecked the data protection agency that gave US corporations a veneer of legality.
xyst 1y ago
Although I despise MS teams and never want to use that godawful piece of shit outside of work. I love this type of story/indie hacking. No need to bother with greedy investors. Just working directly with customers and solving a problem (created by incompetence at MS). Only downside here is that MS at any time _could_ decide to improve their shitty built in wiki. Might take years and you won’t feel it until your revenue starts to drop. Or MS goes completely anti-competitive/anti-trust and buys out the competition. Entrepreneur here gets paid out but customers left scrambling to migrate data out or shift over.
MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
Very cool story! I love it. Here’s a direct archive link for those who want to support their fellow tech folks but don’t want to support habr, which directly funds Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: https://archive.is/wDHrB https://archive.is/wDHrB
- Den_VR 1y ago
  Directly?
  - mattmaroon 1y ago
    Surely they meant indirectly. I suppose any Russian company that pays taxes could be said to do so.
    - MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
      Indirectly. Mea culpa.
BiraIgnacio 1y ago
Amazing, congratulations!
karel-3d 1y ago
> It’s available right where employees already spend most of their day — in Microsoft Teams. Depression and dread is coming through me. All the repressed memories are flowing back up.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- egecant 1y ago
  Microsoft Teams is DaaS (Dread as a Service). Here is a great video about how it sucks your soul: https://youtu.be/3O0VbCvWlxk?si=E61rlKLjtFMczl3D https://youtu.be/3O0VbCvWlxk?si=E61rlKLjtFMczl3D
- daheza 1y ago
  Our company is forcing us to drop slack and use teams. It’s going to be terrible. But hey it saves 600k per year. Never mind that our customer experience will become terrible as team communication fails.
  - seethishat 1y ago
    I worry about this too. Diversity is a good thing. And when we do email, DNS, Web, calendars, chat, meetings, storage, etc. all on the same platform, how will we operate/communicate when it fails? Heterogeneous computing environments provide diversity to isolate and contain failures. So when email goes down, we can still chat and meet.
    - dowager_dan99 1y ago
      Teams is so tightly integrated into the MS ecosystem and 365 that it can essentially bring down email and even office apps. Example: PP decks always want to open in Teams by default; every meeting in outlook wants to be a Teams meeting, etc.
      - 9x39 1y ago
        Luckily, short of a DNS or auth problem, my experience is that Teams is just an alternate GUI for what already exists - Exchange, SharePoint, OneDrive. And to be fair, you can just tell Teams to open in the desktop office apps by default (settings > Files and Links), and Outlook has a little radio button to turn off whether meetings are also Teams meetings. All the enterprise productivity apps seem to accumulate complexity and resultant scar tissue, usually in the form of busy settings or painfully opinionated defaults - painful when the defaults don't optimize for your use case.
onefeduk21 1y ago
[dead]
daft_pink 1y ago
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you can accomplish your goal without investors, you should do it.
pugworthy 1y ago
Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG on trying to open the page.
20237499 1y ago
[flagged]
unixhero 1y ago
Great article, I got kind of motivated Who the heck is Microsoft Loop for anyways?
exodust 1y ago
Me: can dynamic content such as inventory feeds be included in wiki pages? *AI Assistant is typing* AI: Hmm, I couldn't find an answer to that. Can you rephrase your question or give me a bit more detail? This is why I can't stand the idea of conversing with AI bots just to "browse" a company wiki. I mean how big are company wikis? Not big enough that simply browsing it yourself using regular content browsing or keyword searching can't surface what you need quickly and accurately. And $790+ annually and still can't remove the "powered by Perfect wiki" logo! It takes $2390 before you're unsticking that sucker!
mparnisari 1y ago
Congrats on building a successful product!
misiek08 1y ago
Respect and positive jealousy!
game_the0ry 1y ago
> In May 2020, I lost my job and started thinking about new projects to launch or where to direct my efforts I hope this becomes more common -- laid off engineers starting their own digital products.
desireco42 1y ago
You guys are so negative and he literally made the boring and dreadful things easier for corporations... Congrats! Looks really good for me, very sensible approach. From my perspective, this is excellent product.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
This product reminds me a bit of 'You need a wiki', which allows you to maintain your wiki in Google Drive, but still browse it easily: https://youneedawiki.com/ https://youneedawiki.com/ As the files are all stored in Google Drive, so there's no vendor lock-in. The documentation site is also made with their product: https://docs.youneedawiki.com/ https://docs.youneedawiki.com/
- leipert 1y ago
  > files are all stored in Google Drive, so there's no vendor lock-in. Except for Google Drive
  - rahimnathwani 1y ago
    Sure, but the product is targeted at people who already use Google Drive.
  - ravikapoor101 1y ago
    There is nothing in google drive that has a lockin. You can move files anywhere anytime - local disk, dropbox, S3 etc.
    - franga2000 1y ago
      This is only true if you use GDrive as nothing more than a file store, which most people don't. The above mentioned wiki is exactly the kind of software someone in the company finds, buys, gets the company reliant on and now you can't switch away from GDrive because that thing wouldn't work anymore. And because Google does not participate in standardization efforts for document formats, the exported Docs/Sheets/Slides files you get from GDrive won't have any of Google's admittedly cool features, they're simply discarded when exporting.
- zzbn00 1y ago
  There is also https://tiddlywiki.com/ https://tiddlywiki.com/ that you can save anywhere
- 1y ago
mmooss 1y ago
Is there a demo of Perfect Wiki somewhere? I looked around and only saw 'signup for demo' on their website.
9x39 1y ago
People love oracles. I don't really get why yet, but I watch almost anyone outside of tech just eat up AI summaries like the ones atop Google search results or chat agents connected to an LLM. The common denominator in the room is probably so high for a lot of tech people that it's easy to be dismissive, but this looks like giving people what they think they want - the oracle. It's impressive looking for a lot of users, and impressive for certain people to brag about connecting and setting up for a team. I think there's a mid to bottom market desire for this stuff, even if it doesn't survive a possible future bubble pop. Call it selling shovels in a gold rush.
gist 1y ago
Open source wiki we have used forever with great success: https://twiki.org/ https://twiki.org/ https://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WhatIsTWiki https://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WhatIsTWiki
recroad 1y ago
There's a lot of money to be made in making a bad process more efficient.
hdivider 1y ago
Love it. Bob Dorf, successful entrepreneur and investor, once told me: "Avoid investors! Avoid investors. Avoid investors for as long as humanly possible."
fHr 1y ago
last company had slack which is way superior to share codesnippets, can some developer tell me what they do about it when they only have shity teams in their company? compared to sharing code over slack it's 10x worse I want to kms every time when in teams u paste a snippet and that shit just goes to one line instead of wrapping like the original snippet that was 3 lines in your IDE ffs
- valiant55 1y ago
  Are you putting it in a code block (three back ticks)? The only issues I've had are character limits and sometimes Teams doesn't do a good job actually putting things in your clipboard.
dvektor 1y ago
Congrats OP. also: microsoft teams is an unholy abomination
le-mark 1y ago
Also despise teams, here’s my anecdote. A few years ago (about 2020) the Linux teams client had bug where it would write to a .so continuously which is odd enough. It would then fill up the disk on my work laptop writing to that one file. Seemed to be related to the update mechanism. Luckily as a dev I had admin access and uninstalled and deleted the 450gB .so file.
pbrum 1y ago
My company is building something in the messaging/comms space, but focused on B2B rather than internal team chat like Slack/Teams. Seeing all the dislike for those two makes me wonder if we should enable intra-team messaging as a (free?) bonus feature. As for PerfectWiki: fantastic hyper-targeted product and writeup. Congrats to Ilia
LZ_Khan 1y ago
First of all, congratulations. That's a huge feat and you seem to have overcome a lot of hurdles to make it. That being said, I find it a bit discouraging that small-team passion projects with even the best product-market fit and minimal marketing spend only reach this level of profitability after 5 years. Like, I can work at a FAANG, coast, make no real contribution to society and collect a 400K/yr check. Or I could go all in on a cool idea and risk getting no customers. Option 2 sounds more fun, but it's still so much stress and uncertainty for little payoff. Do others feel the same?
- wingerlang 1y ago
  > Like, I can work at a FAANG, coast, make no real contribution to society and collect a 400K/yr check. 99% of the world is not able to just go work at a FAANG. That 99% also earn way less than 250K a year.
  - imtringued 1y ago
    Case in point: https://x.com/WyzeCam/status/1917662183036706849 https://x.com/WyzeCam/status/1917662183036706849
- pimterry 1y ago
  Building a business that earns $250k/year isn't just a fixed income though - you get the money, but _you also now own a business_. In effect you've earned a $250k income _and_ ~$1 million dollar asset you can sell later (one which will also likely keep growing in value well above most other assets return rates). The reality is a bit more complicated, but there is definitely significant value in 100% equity in a successful business that will often be larger than your paycheck. And that's before you get into the flexibility and other upsides of being your own boss, the long-term CV & reputation benefits of this for whatever else you want to do next, etc etc.
senko 1y ago
Money quote: > That’s when I decided to dive deeper into analyzing what other problems Microsoft Teams users were facing and what kind of service I could offer them. I was confident I’d find a niche because the traffic and activity on the marketplace were high — a ready-made customer base was just in front of me. I just needed to find a product idea that would solve a real problem. > I started reading forums, comments, and online discussions. It turned out the built-in Wiki in Microsoft Teams annoyed users really a lot. It was slow and inconvenient. OP has done actual research and found a real problem to solve. Amy Hoy has been popularizing this exact approach under "Sales Safari", but it boils down to "find your user's watering holes and listen to what they complain about to each other."
nachteilig 1y ago
Sorry to tell you that some of us are looking to Migrate away from it. We’ve definitely noticed the speed and usability issues as we’ve grown
tyingq 1y ago
Pretty impressive. One watch out is that MS has control of many knobs that can ruin it. At the moment, your app is what comes back first if I click "Apps" and search "Wiki". I imagine MS can change that on a whim. Then things like app reviews and so on. Have you considered expanding it as a plugin/app for other tools...to sort of spread that risk out to more than one vendor?
- vickychijwani 1y ago
  OP already mentioned at the end of the post that they’ve expanded to Slack, ChatGPT, etc
franga2000 1y ago
> It’s available right where employees already spend most of their day — in Microsoft Teams. What do these people do?? Like what is a job that requires you to spend most of your time in an internal chat app? Every job I can think of either has its own "main" software, involves doing things IRL or, even if it is manily a communication job, that communication happens with a wide variety of outside people, meaning you probably use email a lot more than Teams.
- Tallain 1y ago
  Talk with your coworkers, send quick questions about code snippets, screen share and cowork or pair program or troubleshoot, have meetings, have sales calls, send updates that are a little less important than email would warrant. If you're in-office you might do some of these less often. If you're fully remote and your org uses Teams, this is what goes on.
effortment 1y ago
[dead]

721 points by sochix 1y ago

Congrats!

Looks like a great product and congratulations on your success. I miss the days when HN was more stories like this of people using their expertise to make money - whether it was code, book launches, writing courses etc. Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted?

freetonik 1y ago
There's limited space on the front page, and the topic of AI is so prevalent, it occupies a lot, every day. Right now 10 out of 30 stories on the front page are about AI and LLMs.
- catlikesshrimp 1y ago
  I prefer AI both raw material and recycled garbage than the cryptocoin epidemy from recent years.
- gadders 1y ago
  I wouldn't mind if it was "Here is how I got to $250k ARR with my self-funded AI startup" :-)
- dmos62 1y ago
  To be fair, more than 1/3 of my technical thoughts involve ai these days.
- -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
  Yeah, it's a Trump-related political outrage, or it's an AI thing. I feel anecdotally like the AI-related things are even more prevalent, but would love to see some data on it. The Trump stuff seems to get flagged very much, and the AI stuff, very litle. It's heady times, anyway, that's for sure.
  - -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
    Actually, I should say, using https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active to see flagged stuff too is great. Not sure if you see everything, but I definitely am more interested in a less curated frontpage. I don't find ignoring headlines I'm not interested in to be such a major affront to my sensibilities.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    > The Trump stuff seems to get flagged very much, and the AI stuff, very litle. Speaking personally, I flag the political posts and not the AI posts because the political posts always turn into flame wars. AI posts do not, so I leave them be (even though I don't personally like them).
    - -__---____-ZXyw 1y ago
      Hmmm. Is there a statement of HN policy somewhere about that? Or is this just a thing you decided to do on your own accord? No judgment, just curious. I presume you've reflected on the idea that one person's flame war is another person's gentle exchange of opinion. I can see what you're saying though, and I have seen discussions where I've thought "oook, don't really understand what these people think they're achieving", but I wouldn't say I've seen anything horrendous. I mean, individual horrific comments get quickly flagged to death. Why bother flagging the whole topic? Why not simply not investigate those threads?
      - satvikpendem 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html mentions not to use HN for political or ideological battle.
  - stevage 1y ago
    >but would love to see some data on it. There was a great post by someone who did some analysis on HN content, just yesterday. Can't remember keywords to find it though.
sochix 1y ago
My story on the first page, so I guess people still loves success-stories ;)
- gadders 1y ago
  Yes, but maybe this rose-tinted glasses, but it seems like every week we would have a story like yours, an essay from Patio11 on how much money Bingo Cards are making, Nathan Barry talking about how a book launch earnt him $50k in a weekend, Brennan Dunn launching a course for 5 figures etc.
YetAnotherNick 1y ago
[flagged]
- sochix 1y ago
  Maybe! But on the other side I can work when and how I want, it's a big bonus as for me.
  - sirfz 1y ago
    This bonus is priceless tbh congrats on your success and hope you'll never need to work for anyone
  - YetAnotherNick 1y ago
    I also love side projects and have done a few. What I was commenting on is "people using their expertise to make money". For me it's more of the opposite. I could have earned way more in traditional things but I do side project because I can select what I want to do.
- bboygravity 1y ago
  It is if you live outside of the US or if you'd never make it into a FAANG, because of lack of credentials and/or connections. Or. If you like the idea of having no boss, no standup meetings, no Jira, no commutes, no open office plan, etc.
- 0_____0 1y ago
  Not bad when the median salary is equivalent to 600$/mo
- naughtyfinch 1y ago
  Nothing beats the freedom and fulfillment of owning and operating your own business. A job at a FAANG company with a high salary is so overrated. I know, since I have worked in multiple FAANG companies over the last 12 years.
  - sochix 1y ago
cornholio 1y ago
Well, perhaps people see such success stories for what they are, well curated commodity flowers in the walled gardens of the major players, who will not hesitate to pluck them the instant they threaten to have any kind of uncontrolled growth. It's "ISVs" all over again, commoditization of complements etcetera, the tech molemen that serve the big machines. AI looks to many as a wall buster, at least for the time being, so even if breakout success is unlikely you can't blame people for at least trying to escape the underground caverns where the "widely successful" ceiling is capped at perhaps reaching a FAANG manager level of compensation.
- pjc50 1y ago
  > AI looks to many as a wall buster Hmm. I see a lot of people trying to build products on top of models trained by other people, which seems very vulnerable.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    I think what that is demonstrating is that models are commodity objects. The model factory may have a value. I think it would need a specialized context. It would need a market large enough to support it and small enough to keep the context out of the mainstream. My guess is this will always be a moving target. The consumer will choose models based on their value proposition. We all have to start our sandcastle somewhere.
  - Perz1val 1y ago
    Using silicon chips manufactured in like 3 fabs
apercu 1y ago
[flagged]
- monkeywork 1y ago
  >it bothered me because I come here to get away from all the propaganda. Somehow, I doubt this statement is true, given the rest of your post, which was in no way adding to the conversation, is exactly the sort of propaganda you claim to try and get away from. >We have to educate and inform. Which you did not do in any stretch of the words - all you did was add noise.
  - cdelsolar 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - zahlman 1y ago
      >And now that we are Nothing of the sort is occurring here. In the part of the HN guidelines where it says: > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. A big part of the reason for that is that habitually doing things like that tends to blind one to reality.
      - cdelsolar 1y ago
        How are the things I mentioned not real? I didn't say that we are talking about those semantic arguments on this Hacker News thread, I'm talking about the world outside of that.
        zahlman 1y ago
        I've been here since August and I haven't seen anything that even remotely resembles > semantic arguments about why it’s ok for ICE to bust down random doors looking for brown people to deport to the death camps If you feel you have, I humbly suggest you go back and re-evaluate whatever it was that you read. Keep in mind that in order to qualify as such, the other party would have to agree with you that ICE's actions could be fairly described as such, in every aspect.
kryogen1c 1y ago
> Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted? I'll speak as someone who is part of the problem. As groucho Marx says, I wouldn't want to be a part of any club that will have me as a member! HN is a victim of its own popularity. Things just get diluted and more mainstreamy by people like me, who are perhaps hackers in spirit but don't have much to show for it. I work in IT at an international company everyone knows the name of. I've got a garden and there are meals in my fridge made of meat from pigs I raised. I've got furniture in my house my wife and I made years ago in a different state. I'll submit random articles, but never a show HN. How could I? Woodgearsca built a woodworking shop out of his woodworking shop. No one cares about the tables I built. I try to speak only when I know I can contribute, but im very unsure i raise the quality here.
- kaonwarb 1y ago
  I would upvote interesting Show HNs about, say, raising pigs! I like learning from folks with firsthand knowledge.
  - mbreese 1y ago
    Or about building tables… I don’t think hacking has to exclusively be about programming and computers. If you submit a story about raising pigs or building a table on a weekend, it would probably get a lot of interaction. Please think about doing it. I’d love to hear the story!
- vintagedave 1y ago
  You might be surprised what you could contribute. I've submitted articles that I thought were really valuable, and never had any success [0] (maybe the first is too business-y, not hacker-ish, but I genuinely believe what I wrote there matters and it's worth understanding, at least in the sense it was transformative for me when I did understand it) and then an article on a random weekend project a friend and I did made the top five on the front page [1] and stayed there for ages. People very much just might care about the tables you make! Especially if you can share something you learned. [0]: https://daveon.design/what-are-you-optimising-for.html https://daveon.design/what-are-you-optimising-for.html and https://daveon.design/creating-joy-in-the-user-experience.html https://daveon.design/creating-joy-in-the-user-experience.ht... [1]: https://daveon.design/adventures-making-vegemite.html https://daveon.design/adventures-making-vegemite.html
deadbabe 1y ago
It used to be easier to use expertise to make money, now you need to use expertise just to get by.
- bredren 1y ago
  I was not expecting this comment here but it tracks with my observations. Things that previously could be taken for granted now require applied thought and physical capability. For example, people regularly ask how to find reasonably priced housing in /r/askPortland. The OP usually mentions constant looking at Zillow and other sites / apps. Very, very few good deals will be found there because the marketplace is too fluid and too accessible. You gotta hustle on the ground in the neighborhood you want to be in to find the best housing compromises. Used to be you could wing it on craigslist. From concert tickets to new Nike shoes, you want a good seat / common size? How about a nice family campsite? Well you better have set up automation. It’s to the point where public swim lessons can’t be got without a bot. Unless, you go to the pool and ask about lessons not scheduled on the internet. It is an absolute hustle, across the minor daily desires of good things and experiences. Those products rejected by the most motivated get binned into some consultant optimized vertically integrated reseller. The services get marketed heavily with dark patterns just to cancel their membership. It is tough out there.
  - deadbabe 1y ago
    thank you for the reply, it feels good for others to understand
devsda 1y ago
> Is that harder to do these days, or has the HN news appetite shifted? The popular keywords for some time have been AI, Trump, Russia, Ukraine. As these are hot topics, the "Hacker" part of HN has taken a noticeable backseat. There are still interesting submissions but they don't reach the front page that often. For example, there's a huge thread on this very post about the source site because of its supposed origins.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bredren 1y ago
There is good reason why these posts don’t regularly make front page. The genre of content is regularly abused by hypesters. There is a forum / podcast dedicated to this kind of success story and it is just massive cheerleading and success bias. If you go look for it, you’ll find it. HN readers achieving this success either don’t need or don’t want the attention that might come with this kind of content marketing. It’s much more interesting to learn about detailed technical solutions engineering and the SOTA.
- camdenreslink 1y ago
  Are you talking about Indie Hackers? Why speak in riddles, it isn't a secret.
  - heromal 1y ago
    I also was confused by why he was being so cryptic about a very popular forum.
stevoski 1y ago
If you get a one- or two-person SaaS to $10K MMR, and then tell the detailed story in places like HN, you get copycatted many times. People will reproduce what you made - to the pixel. It is really, really frustrating. Founders who have experienced this learn to avoid sharing the stories on HN, etc.

ethn 1y ago

Good work, there are plenty of businesses like this for the pickings exactly because they are not VC investable.

edg5000 1y ago

Keep that surplush cash in the business with a window of a few years to absorb any downturn, don't get a Bugatti :) Not that I am qualified to provide advice on this topic. Great success story.

sochix 1y ago
Thank you!

PeterStuer 1y ago

Did you get any corporate or MS celebrity endorsement early on? In my limited experience this seemed key to bootstrap you on the store.

sochix 1y ago
Nope! It was all done organically

DataDaemon 1y ago

Where data are stored? How safe are they?

sochix 1y ago
I am using Google Cloud Platform to store the data
- Calwestjobs 1y ago
  kidnapping your family in Russia makes you vulnerable, what precautions do you take so i can be sure Russian government can not get to my data thru you ? Reason why i am asking this : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/30/inside-taganrog-beatings-electrocution-and-starvation-at-prison-where-ukrainians-were-tortured https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/30/inside-taganro...
  - unmole 1y ago
    Delusions of grandeur much?
    - Calwestjobs 1y ago
      Yes, Putin is dictator he has delusions of grandeur. (this is not sarcasm, im just taking your nearsighted worldview as a joke.) If you think im exaggerating than educate yourself on matter more then 2 minutes of googling. Situation is simple. Question: does russian establishemnt attacks European and USA infrastructure? Answer: Yes. If you genuinely asking about delusions of grandeur then your answer to that question is no. So who does have delusions? Pure logic.
      - unmole 1y ago
        If you think Putin is going to kidnap someone's family to force a developer to hand over data that you put into a MS Teams wiki, you certainly have delusions of grandeur.

RandomWorker 1y ago

What I took away from this story is that I forget that there are ecosystems outside the Apple App Store. I’ve become so accustomed to thinking of releasing on Apple first that I didn’t even know you could make money through Teams addons.

sochix 1y ago
Yep, Teams store is a hidden gem.
xyst 1y ago
You can make money through anything that has a decent market size. Slack addons or plugins used to be a good example before it was acquired by Salesforce.
- em-bee 1y ago
  what else is there then? google, microsoft, apple, some chinese companies. can't think of anything else with a large market for apps.
  - Suppafly 1y ago
    roblox :) Honestly though anything with a lot of users typically either has a way to make money selling addons, or by hosting your own content related to their product, like wikis and leaderboards and such.
    - bemmu 1y ago
      There’s even a niche within Roblox, which is making plugins for the IDE used for making games for it, Roblox Studio. There’s a built-in marketplace where you can charge money for them.
  - unmole 1y ago
    Shopify, Wordpress
  - 1y ago

1a527dd5 1y ago

I love this story, so happy for your success. It reads great, and makes me feel great (oddly - maybe it gives me a sense of hope I can do the same thing one day). Congrats!

sochix 1y ago
Thank you! I think you could do it, just ship something today!

kgeist 1y ago

>Currently, the team behind Perfect Wiki is just two people. I handle the development and product, and my colleague manages user support Good product, but I'm concerned about relying on something developed essentially by a single person due to the bus factor... If it's open-source, that's fine — we can fork it if needed. But if it's a SaaS product, what happens if something happens to the developer? Will all my data be lost? Then again, one of the tools we used before was discontinued despite being developed by a fairly large team...

apples_oranges 1y ago
Exactly, it can also happen with larger companies and if the creator here decides to step back for Example he might organize some sort of continuity by selling the product or hiring someone to maintain it
gmm1990 1y ago
They seem focused and dont have and debt or funding burdens. There risk of something catastrophic happening to an individual is lower than the average business going out of business. Some sort of data and data structure export/external backup would be a good feature though if it doesn’t already exist
- Y_Y 1y ago
  But if I depend on a business making a critical tool, and am paying for the pleasure, then my prior for their going out of business decreases greatly. Their susceptibility to bus attacks remains unchanged however.

naughtyfinch 1y ago

Congratulations! Great work so far. I too have been looking to do something like this for a long time now. The biggest challenge for me is that I am locked into the golden handcuffs that FAANG companies put on you. Guess I will wait till I get laid off. I don't have the guts to resign and follow my dream (heavy sigh)

naghing 1y ago

This seems like a commercial for the product. Why is this front page HN?

nlitened 1y ago
Sir, this is a forum for people who make things
- Calwestjobs 1y ago
  Every talent needs to be helped to grow, make all kinds of peoples life easier, so democracy invites everyone with good will to do that in west. Making Russia stronger means making west weaker. Because russian "government". After russian people get rid of their murderous gov...
Calwestjobs 1y ago
For ordinary US citizen without a broad worldview, this thing i wrote seem like writings of a mad man. As Kennedys presidential address says: "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." My duty is to warn ordinary citizens, this is it, you were warned. answer to your question follows: because product is Russian, programmers are Russian, so your data will be under influence of Russian government directly or indirectly - his family is in Russia. so HN bots want to be edgy but failed to comprehend that Russian regime IS directly involved in making life for US citizens difficult, even tho Russian regime had 20 years worth of chances to not do that, not be bad actor, but they did not want that. they want to be bad actor and they act as bad actor. im not saying anything about Colonial Pipeline attack of course that would be silly. Russian people are not outsiders, they are complicit in Russians regime activities. but it is so hard to explain this to people because even XTwitter is allowing Russian propaganda / soft power activities of Russia unimpeded. Also a lot of Israeli people have family, ancestors in Russia so they project their feelings for them, towards Russia uncritically. Russia is not democracy, Russia is not USA. Russia IS Russian people. Russia IS acting as a bad actor so call it as it act as.
- 1y ago

Orygin 1y ago

Congrats on the success, but I feel like you hit gold because MS has little to no interest in providing actual good software for their users. Hopefully for you that stays that way and you can maybe expand to other areas where they come short (basically anything in Teams)

sochix 1y ago
Agreed!
hampowder 1y ago
You state it as if it were a coincidence. The important point is that the author identified the problem and filled the gap. > I started reading forums, comments, and online discussions. It turned out the built-in Wiki in Microsoft Teams annoyed users really a lot.
- Orygin 1y ago
  I admit I didn't read the entirety of the post, but I read the following: > Many of our clients came to us after trying the Microsoft built-in Wiki. It was clunky, inconvenient, and didn’t do the job well. We focused on simplicity: the essential features only, nothing extra — and everything should function inside Microsoft Teams. So I know it wasn't a coincidence, and rarely are such software built without understanding the needs first. I just wanted to point out that in this case, the business relies on Microsoft not doing a proper job. Otherwise they would be at a serious risk of being Sherlocked by the provider.
  - darkwater 1y ago
    They already expanded it to Slack and other platforms.
    - Orygin 1y ago
      Slack is, I think, mainly focused on the messaging and relies on third parties to integrate other features. Microsoft is a behemoth that wants to sell their complete software suite and tries to integrate all of them together for a "seamless" experience. They do have an incentive for their own products to be good and used instead of third parties. Plus once they realize how much data is in these wikis, they will want to ingest them for AI (if not already done), so there is an incentive for them to have more users on their solution instead. Edit: And even if the OP is not relying only on MS for sales, they still depend heavily on them and their App Store. They are not competing with Confluence or other systems, they are competing with Teams itself.

gabrielcrist 1y ago

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jen729w 1y ago

Honestly the most admirable part is shipping a Teams app. I’ve been down that rabbit-hole and Je-sus what a horrific experience. Never again.

iJohnDoe 1y ago
Can you elaborate a bit? Been tossing around the idea of doing a Teams app. What were the challenges?
- dabbz 1y ago
  Used to work for a company that owned a Teams extension. Teams updates will just randomly break your extension behavior without any warning or heads up. The migration to their "new teams" app was brutal. Their SDK is built into 2 view render portions. 1 for in-message rendering using their own markup syntax for structuring views, and another that's just a web browser. So if you want to share components between 1 for messages and another for your pane, you can't. Ingesting events is not very well defined. Everything gets sent to 2 endpoints you define and it's up to you to determine how to handle it. Just some of the issues I came across in my short time at the company.
- jen729w 1y ago
  None of the onboarding material actually works. I guess because it’s all based on Azure/Entra which changes so frequently. So there’s videos, articles, VSC extensions, all to help you navigate this Byzantine structure. But they’re all just wrong. Look I’m not a pro dev so YMMV. Kick the tyres for a few days and see if you can get it to do anything. I never could, and the experience was just no fun at all. At least with web dev, that I’m also no good at, it can be fun. Teams was like pulling my own nails out.
- 9dev 1y ago
  Tried to build a teams chatbot for our org. There are five different official starter templates, none of which work, but all use different outdated versions of the Microsoft packages required. They point to documentation that is missing (like 404 missing), outdated, containing code samples that don’t match the SDKs; the build fails after startup, or only works together with a VS Code extension. Tasks require an obscene amount of boilerplate code that is never really explained; configuration options are not properly documented, sometimes the types are broken. Everything you could imagine being wrong with an enterprise JavaScript package and much more is in that hellish rabbit hole.

keepamovin 1y ago

This is cool, I never even heard of MS Team's marketplace. My wife uses Teams a lot for work and likes it. I should put BrowserBox on there. I need marketing ideas. The way he did product research to find out what customers really needed, after testing the waters with a translator, was really good. Definition of make something people want. Classic way business has always been created, by keen observation of the market. Well done!

sochix 1y ago
thank you!
- keepamovin 1y ago
  You're welcome - it's inspiring :) Thanks for the write up!

TiredOfLife 1y ago

BRB. Installing russian knowledge management software on internal servers.

bestest 1y ago
Author also mentions his thoughts on expanding to the russian market. So many red flags here. Pun intended.

ThunderSizzle 1y ago

Congratulations on your achievement. However, this is one of my frustrations about Teams - it absolutely sucks, and what few integrations it has from Microsoft absolutely sucks. You are already paying too much to MS for it to not be working properly. God knows how much my company is giving to Microsoft for us to have crappy and expensive (read: time wasting) experiences with Teams, Windows 11 onboarding, Azure DevOps (better than what wr had, at least), Visual Studio 2022, etc.

sochix 1y ago
At least there is a lot of room for improvement for entrepreneurs likes me ;)
doix 1y ago
In my (admittedly very limited) experience, Teams was almost free when you're already paying for microsoft 365. At least last time I had any involvement with it, the price difference between having teams in the bundle or not was negligible. It makes it cheaper than any competitor. Now in reality, I think the true cost is hidden by the frustration it causes (some?) users, but it's very hard to quantify that in a dollar amount. Which is why companies stick with Teams.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  The hidden cost is also the removal of competition. Google get more heat for browser "monopoly" when they even provide a free browser base for others to customise, and Microsoft gets almost none for incredibly overwhelmingly anti-competitive behaviour around lock-in to Office, Teams, Sharepoint, Azure.
  - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
    Microsoft charged with EU antitrust violations for bundling Teams (The Verge, 25 Jun 2024) – https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/25/24185467/microsoft-teams-eu-bundling-antitrust-violations https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/25/24185467/microsoft-teams-...

zerr 1y ago

Related: Had anyone had any success with (selling) Skype Add-ins/Plug-ins or whatever it was called? :)

angusb 1y ago

Congrats, this is a great story! One small thing: > Every time I check out competitors' sites — those who also build knowledge base or customer support platforms — I notice something odd. Almost all of them use third-party tools like Intercom or Zendesk to support their own customers. That surprises me. If your product is so great — why don’t you use it yourself? For me, that’s a golden rule: your product should be so good you want to use it yourself. If not, that means something’s wrong. Is this not just because Intercom and Zendesk have their own ticketing systems tightly integrated to the docs? Integrating the two allows e.g. customer query auto-reply based on RAG with the documentation, or auto-replying with the 3 support articles most likely to solve the problem. I assume Perfect Wiki has no equivalent ticket integration?

angusb 1y ago
BTW - I see you have a LLM answering questions based on your docs on the help pages (which is great). So really I mean for customer support issues that are raised outside this channel
sochix 1y ago
Not yet, but it is in our roadmap
1oooqooq 1y ago
because internal ones are about knowledge, external ones are about driving sales and reducing support costs.
dabbz 1y ago
I also see it as a contingency plan. How do customers get help from you if your service has interrupted downtime? Relying on separate systems helps you be available still. It's one of those things that is not a problem until it's a problem.
jd3 1y ago
When working for my former employer, we rolled our own help center, but after awhile, it was deemed easier and cheaper to just cut it and transfer everything to zendesk.

ph4evers 1y ago

Congrats on the success! Are you not afraid that MS ships a wiki upgrade at a certain point?

rurban 1y ago
Given the state of the typical Microsoft PM he will be safe. They'll always prefer more features over a fast UX. Even if there will a fast enough teams wiki one day, the next PM will butcher it to death again.
rk06 1y ago
Ms already has onenote and loop. So another new product is unlikely to be come, let alone compete
imtringued 1y ago
It's more likely that they just acquire Perfect Wiki and integrate it directly.

nottorp 1y ago

> Currently, the team behind Perfect Wiki is just two people. It would have been 20 people if investors were brought in. Missed opportunity! Edit: forgot to mention that it would have had the same revenue and been a failure :)

parrit 1y ago
It wouldn't exist at all. It isn't AI.
- sciurus 1y ago
  By my count they mention AI seventeen times on their homepage. https://perfectwikiforteams.com/ https://perfectwikiforteams.com/
  - nottorp 1y ago
    Plus, what will the other 18 people on the team do? Burn their cash using and inserting "AI".
- cess11 1y ago
  Judging from their web site, so called AI is at the center of their offering. https://perfectwikiforteams.com/ https://perfectwikiforteams.com/

igtztorrero 1y ago

Perfect Wiki = Perfect History for a coder: He lost his job and looked for ways to make other people's lives easier in a growing niche market. Perfect Receipt. Congratulations

sochix 1y ago
thank you!

sam_lowry_ 1y ago

Dunno about the author, but linking to habr.com is bad taste at best. This is the biggest Russian IT resource that contributes to the Russian economy and thus to the war effort. By comparison, I unpublished everything there and asked to delete my account in Feb, 2022, just after the full-fledged invasion of Ukraine started.

parrit 1y ago
[flagged]
- sam_lowry_ 1y ago
  I don't. Neither does my current client. Actually, I wonder if I should start a consulting business to help others clear the skies from US clouds. Anyone? /s
- regnull 1y ago
  Ah yes, classic. Here's a helpful guide: - This never happened - They deserved it - They did it themselves - What about Iraq?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
moralestapia 1y ago
Let's focus on the content rather than the form. Similar things could be said about the US, excluding 90% of websites.
toenail 1y ago
I guess I should delete my hn account. They pay taxes in the US which is used to fund countless wars all over the world.
- sixQuarks 1y ago
  [flagged]

parrit 1y ago

Well done. No mean fear getting to 250k. I hope you can get to 1M as hiring people with just 250K is challenging (unless you are not paying yourself).

vlovich123 1y ago
He’s in Russia where it’s a lot more doable.

moralestapia 1y ago

> My assumptions were confirmed — people were actively looking for an alternative to the built-in Wiki, and they searched for it directly in the Teams marketplace. They found my app using the keyword “wiki.” It was an awesome free acquisition channel. This is the money quote for me.

pantulis 1y ago

I think the overall consensus would be being cautious of creating a product on top of a third party platform and marketplace, worse it being MS itself. But! If this is a one person team, I think this is exactly the other way around and basing the product on top of Teams is unbelievably competitive to the point that if MS shuts you down in a couple of years you can still have made a profit.

cess11 1y ago

"We're committed to compliance with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and have implemented a wide range of technical and organizational measures." Kind of iffy claim when you're on GCP, especially since the current president wrecked the data protection agency that gave US corporations a veneer of legality.

xyst 1y ago

Although I despise MS teams and never want to use that godawful piece of shit outside of work. I love this type of story/indie hacking. No need to bother with greedy investors. Just working directly with customers and solving a problem (created by incompetence at MS). Only downside here is that MS at any time _could_ decide to improve their shitty built in wiki. Might take years and you won’t feel it until your revenue starts to drop. Or MS goes completely anti-competitive/anti-trust and buys out the competition. Entrepreneur here gets paid out but customers left scrambling to migrate data out or shift over.

MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago

Very cool story! I love it. Here’s a direct archive link for those who want to support their fellow tech folks but don’t want to support habr, which directly funds Russia’s invasion of Ukraine: https://archive.is/wDHrB https://archive.is/wDHrB

Den_VR 1y ago
Directly?
- mattmaroon 1y ago
  Surely they meant indirectly. I suppose any Russian company that pays taxes could be said to do so.
  - MOARDONGZPLZ 1y ago
    Indirectly. Mea culpa.

BiraIgnacio 1y ago

Amazing, congratulations!

karel-3d 1y ago

> It’s available right where employees already spend most of their day — in Microsoft Teams. Depression and dread is coming through me. All the repressed memories are flowing back up.

deleted 1y ago
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egecant 1y ago
Microsoft Teams is DaaS (Dread as a Service). Here is a great video about how it sucks your soul: https://youtu.be/3O0VbCvWlxk?si=E61rlKLjtFMczl3D https://youtu.be/3O0VbCvWlxk?si=E61rlKLjtFMczl3D
daheza 1y ago
Our company is forcing us to drop slack and use teams. It’s going to be terrible. But hey it saves 600k per year. Never mind that our customer experience will become terrible as team communication fails.
- seethishat 1y ago
  I worry about this too. Diversity is a good thing. And when we do email, DNS, Web, calendars, chat, meetings, storage, etc. all on the same platform, how will we operate/communicate when it fails? Heterogeneous computing environments provide diversity to isolate and contain failures. So when email goes down, we can still chat and meet.
  - dowager_dan99 1y ago
    Teams is so tightly integrated into the MS ecosystem and 365 that it can essentially bring down email and even office apps. Example: PP decks always want to open in Teams by default; every meeting in outlook wants to be a Teams meeting, etc.
    - 9x39 1y ago
      Luckily, short of a DNS or auth problem, my experience is that Teams is just an alternate GUI for what already exists - Exchange, SharePoint, OneDrive. And to be fair, you can just tell Teams to open in the desktop office apps by default (settings > Files and Links), and Outlook has a little radio button to turn off whether meetings are also Teams meetings. All the enterprise productivity apps seem to accumulate complexity and resultant scar tissue, usually in the form of busy settings or painfully opinionated defaults - painful when the defaults don't optimize for your use case.

onefeduk21 1y ago

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daft_pink 1y ago

Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you can accomplish your goal without investors, you should do it.

pugworthy 1y ago

Error code: SSL_ERROR_RX_RECORD_TOO_LONG on trying to open the page.

20237499 1y ago

[flagged]

unixhero 1y ago

Great article, I got kind of motivated Who the heck is Microsoft Loop for anyways?

exodust 1y ago

Me: can dynamic content such as inventory feeds be included in wiki pages? *AI Assistant is typing* AI: Hmm, I couldn't find an answer to that. Can you rephrase your question or give me a bit more detail? This is why I can't stand the idea of conversing with AI bots just to "browse" a company wiki. I mean how big are company wikis? Not big enough that simply browsing it yourself using regular content browsing or keyword searching can't surface what you need quickly and accurately. And $790+ annually and still can't remove the "powered by Perfect wiki" logo! It takes $2390 before you're unsticking that sucker!

mparnisari 1y ago

Congrats on building a successful product!

misiek08 1y ago

Respect and positive jealousy!

game_the0ry 1y ago

> In May 2020, I lost my job and started thinking about new projects to launch or where to direct my efforts I hope this becomes more common -- laid off engineers starting their own digital products.

desireco42 1y ago

You guys are so negative and he literally made the boring and dreadful things easier for corporations... Congrats! Looks really good for me, very sensible approach. From my perspective, this is excellent product.

rahimnathwani 1y ago

This product reminds me a bit of 'You need a wiki', which allows you to maintain your wiki in Google Drive, but still browse it easily: https://youneedawiki.com/ https://youneedawiki.com/ As the files are all stored in Google Drive, so there's no vendor lock-in. The documentation site is also made with their product: https://docs.youneedawiki.com/ https://docs.youneedawiki.com/

leipert 1y ago
> files are all stored in Google Drive, so there's no vendor lock-in. Except for Google Drive
- rahimnathwani 1y ago
  Sure, but the product is targeted at people who already use Google Drive.
- ravikapoor101 1y ago
  There is nothing in google drive that has a lockin. You can move files anywhere anytime - local disk, dropbox, S3 etc.
  - franga2000 1y ago
    This is only true if you use GDrive as nothing more than a file store, which most people don't. The above mentioned wiki is exactly the kind of software someone in the company finds, buys, gets the company reliant on and now you can't switch away from GDrive because that thing wouldn't work anymore. And because Google does not participate in standardization efforts for document formats, the exported Docs/Sheets/Slides files you get from GDrive won't have any of Google's admittedly cool features, they're simply discarded when exporting.
zzbn00 1y ago
There is also https://tiddlywiki.com/ https://tiddlywiki.com/ that you can save anywhere
1y ago

mmooss 1y ago

Is there a demo of Perfect Wiki somewhere? I looked around and only saw 'signup for demo' on their website.

9x39 1y ago

People love oracles. I don't really get why yet, but I watch almost anyone outside of tech just eat up AI summaries like the ones atop Google search results or chat agents connected to an LLM. The common denominator in the room is probably so high for a lot of tech people that it's easy to be dismissive, but this looks like giving people what they think they want - the oracle. It's impressive looking for a lot of users, and impressive for certain people to brag about connecting and setting up for a team. I think there's a mid to bottom market desire for this stuff, even if it doesn't survive a possible future bubble pop. Call it selling shovels in a gold rush.

gist 1y ago

Open source wiki we have used forever with great success: https://twiki.org/ https://twiki.org/ https://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WhatIsTWiki https://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/WhatIsTWiki

recroad 1y ago

There's a lot of money to be made in making a bad process more efficient.

hdivider 1y ago

Love it. Bob Dorf, successful entrepreneur and investor, once told me: "Avoid investors! Avoid investors. Avoid investors for as long as humanly possible."

fHr 1y ago

last company had slack which is way superior to share codesnippets, can some developer tell me what they do about it when they only have shity teams in their company? compared to sharing code over slack it's 10x worse I want to kms every time when in teams u paste a snippet and that shit just goes to one line instead of wrapping like the original snippet that was 3 lines in your IDE ffs

valiant55 1y ago
Are you putting it in a code block (three back ticks)? The only issues I've had are character limits and sometimes Teams doesn't do a good job actually putting things in your clipboard.

dvektor 1y ago

Congrats OP. also: microsoft teams is an unholy abomination

le-mark 1y ago

Also despise teams, here’s my anecdote. A few years ago (about 2020) the Linux teams client had bug where it would write to a .so continuously which is odd enough. It would then fill up the disk on my work laptop writing to that one file. Seemed to be related to the update mechanism. Luckily as a dev I had admin access and uninstalled and deleted the 450gB .so file.

pbrum 1y ago

My company is building something in the messaging/comms space, but focused on B2B rather than internal team chat like Slack/Teams. Seeing all the dislike for those two makes me wonder if we should enable intra-team messaging as a (free?) bonus feature. As for PerfectWiki: fantastic hyper-targeted product and writeup. Congrats to Ilia

LZ_Khan 1y ago

First of all, congratulations. That's a huge feat and you seem to have overcome a lot of hurdles to make it. That being said, I find it a bit discouraging that small-team passion projects with even the best product-market fit and minimal marketing spend only reach this level of profitability after 5 years. Like, I can work at a FAANG, coast, make no real contribution to society and collect a 400K/yr check. Or I could go all in on a cool idea and risk getting no customers. Option 2 sounds more fun, but it's still so much stress and uncertainty for little payoff. Do others feel the same?

wingerlang 1y ago
> Like, I can work at a FAANG, coast, make no real contribution to society and collect a 400K/yr check. 99% of the world is not able to just go work at a FAANG. That 99% also earn way less than 250K a year.
- imtringued 1y ago
  Case in point: https://x.com/WyzeCam/status/1917662183036706849 https://x.com/WyzeCam/status/1917662183036706849
pimterry 1y ago
Building a business that earns $250k/year isn't just a fixed income though - you get the money, but _you also now own a business_. In effect you've earned a $250k income _and_ ~$1 million dollar asset you can sell later (one which will also likely keep growing in value well above most other assets return rates). The reality is a bit more complicated, but there is definitely significant value in 100% equity in a successful business that will often be larger than your paycheck. And that's before you get into the flexibility and other upsides of being your own boss, the long-term CV & reputation benefits of this for whatever else you want to do next, etc etc.

senko 1y ago

Money quote: > That’s when I decided to dive deeper into analyzing what other problems Microsoft Teams users were facing and what kind of service I could offer them. I was confident I’d find a niche because the traffic and activity on the marketplace were high — a ready-made customer base was just in front of me. I just needed to find a product idea that would solve a real problem. > I started reading forums, comments, and online discussions. It turned out the built-in Wiki in Microsoft Teams annoyed users really a lot. It was slow and inconvenient. OP has done actual research and found a real problem to solve. Amy Hoy has been popularizing this exact approach under "Sales Safari", but it boils down to "find your user's watering holes and listen to what they complain about to each other."

nachteilig 1y ago

Sorry to tell you that some of us are looking to Migrate away from it. We’ve definitely noticed the speed and usability issues as we’ve grown

tyingq 1y ago

Pretty impressive. One watch out is that MS has control of many knobs that can ruin it. At the moment, your app is what comes back first if I click "Apps" and search "Wiki". I imagine MS can change that on a whim. Then things like app reviews and so on. Have you considered expanding it as a plugin/app for other tools...to sort of spread that risk out to more than one vendor?

vickychijwani 1y ago
OP already mentioned at the end of the post that they’ve expanded to Slack, ChatGPT, etc

franga2000 1y ago

> It’s available right where employees already spend most of their day — in Microsoft Teams. What do these people do?? Like what is a job that requires you to spend most of your time in an internal chat app? Every job I can think of either has its own "main" software, involves doing things IRL or, even if it is manily a communication job, that communication happens with a wide variety of outside people, meaning you probably use email a lot more than Teams.

Tallain 1y ago
Talk with your coworkers, send quick questions about code snippets, screen share and cowork or pair program or troubleshoot, have meetings, have sales calls, send updates that are a little less important than email would warrant. If you're in-office you might do some of these less often. If you're fully remote and your org uses Teams, this is what goes on.

effortment 1y ago

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