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Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years
- UndefinedRef 2y ago[flagged]
- ethagknight 2y agoAssuming it's due to Elon. Any moral qualms driving a VW, Mercedes, BMW, or Toyota? Each has taken, uh, far more aggressive actions in their respective pasts.
- kanbara 2y ago[flagged]
- ethagknight 2y agoCounterpoint, I’m not convinced those companies were sufficiently punished for their past transgressions, should have ongoing levies/tariffs to repay the lend lease programs that rebuilt Europe. Attempting to draw a line between what Germans actually did in the early 1900s to what you think Elon “would do if he were in charge” is the unserious part. My only point is that the virtue signaling over Elon is quite petty.
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoIf only people had this much vitriol for companies with non-publicly evil ceos.
- tines 2y agoHave to start somewhere.
- racl101 2y agoI was just arguing with someone about this over the holidays when they could not believe I would pass up on a Tesla even if it was free. Forget about Elon being and the company culture, there's practical reasons for me not wanting to own one of these even though I could afford one. Living in cold Canadian province, there would be no upside to owning one of these. Just more hassle. If given one I'd sell it probably for less than the market value just so I can get a more practical hybrid or gas guzzler car. That's not to say that there aren't other Teslas around here, but for me it just would not be worth the hassle.
- jameskilton 2y agoAs a former Tesla Model 3 owner (it got totaled from getting rear-ended) and now own a Ford Mach-E as well as a Toyota RAV-4 Prime (plugin hybrid), yeah I totally agree. Cold weather is the worst for EV cars. You have to spend so much energy keeping the batteries warm on top of spending more energy to keep the cabin comfortable. Heck even the RAV-4 is a problem because it uses a heat pump instead of resistance heating, which means it can't heat the cabin in full EV mode when the temp is < 20F, so I force it into gas mode to stay warm on those days. Not sure how you fix this problem, other than just continuing to improve energy density in batteries to where you don't think about it anymore.
- pton_xd 2y agoAfter owning a Model Y for a year I have to say -- it's the best car I've ever had. Comfortable ride, the visibility with the cameras is great, amazing all-weather traction. It's freakin' fast. The voice-to-navigate works nearly 99% of the time which, given my experiences with Alexa and Siri, is quite impressive. All the usual EV caveats apply though. Being able to charge at home is a must. Living in a cold weather state is probably not advised. Multi-state road trips are doable but not recommended; it's just too much of a hassle. Keep a gas car for that. And I still don't trust any driving assist more advanced than enhanced cruise control. I have no emotional response to Musk so that doesn't color my opinion of the car.
- ahahahahah 2y ago> it's the best car I've ever had That's going to be true for many car sales. People don't usually downgrade on cars, and there is real progress on car features over a typical period between buying cars. It'll be especially true if a brand like Tesla where most if their sales are coming from people who previously owned significantly cheaper cars.
- mrguyorama 2y agoIt's also just standard human psychology after you've spent $40k, advertisers have relied on this for decades.
- LightBug1 2y agoNone of your positives resonate. I'll never buy a Tesla. A decade ago I was a huge fan. Most likely option at the moment is the Hyundai ioniq 5 N ... not only a better drivers car than anything Tesla have ever put out, but I don't have to swallow the Musk emotional tax or have his smell lingering over the purchase ... I'll ... never ... buy ... a ... Tesla. The brand is over.
- technion 2y agoThe "being able to charge at home" is why I recently purchased an petrol powered Subaru. But every online comment and guide telling people to simply install a charger in their driveway assumes a certain amount of privilege, and I feel a lot of this discussion just assumes everyone has that privilege. I'm currently living in an apartment, my underground car park has no power runs anywhere near my car. Before that I lived in a rented house, and getting permission to install anything that required drilling a single hole would have been a non starter.
- buffington 2y agoThere's no reason you should be getting downvoted for this, and I say this as someone who loves their Model 3. You're stating a fact about yourself that is, at the very least, loosely relevant to the posted article. It's like a bunch of people who are a fan of the color yellow got mad when you said you're not a fan of yellow.
- dang 2y agoOk, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
- sidcool 2y agoWhy's there so much hate for Tesla here on HN?
- bpodgursky 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- agumonkey 2y agoa self answering question if there's one
- bparsons 2y ago[flagged]
- bilvar 2y ago[flagged]
- grumple 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany
- bilvar 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly—not just in this thread, but in many threads, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42058962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42058962 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41853161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41853161. We have to ban account that post like this, so if you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- davidw 2y agoI'm nearly 50. I'm used to the idea of businesses owners having different politics than my own, but mostly that was the sort of self-interested "I'm wealthy and I think wealthy people should pay fewer taxes and their businesses should be subject to fewer regulations" sorts of things. You can disagree without thinking they're necessarily Bad People or worthy of boycotting their businesses. Indeed, it's the hallmark of a healthy democracy that we can agree to disagree about various aspects of our society. It's pretty rare to see, on the other hand, someone insert themselves into politics quite so loudly, and in such an extreme way. A lot of what we've seen from the head of that company in the past few years is playing footsie (and sometimes not very subtly) with outright anti-semitism and white supremacy. I'm not ok with that.
- aerodog 2y ago[flagged]
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- jazz9k 2y ago[dead]
- meta_x_ai 2y ago[flagged]
- avgDev 2y agoThe wealth inequality is growing in the US, while lower class is struggling. The kind of wealth Musk, Bezos, Gates have should be taxed a lot higher. They have teams searching for loop holes. The system is unfair for the average guy. How did ALL federal agencies target musk? He is literally getting funding from the government.
- meta_x_ai 2y ago
- avgDev 2y agoIt is only going to get worse for Tesla. Musk went all in extreme right-wing. Even though most "green" buyers are left leaning. I started disliking Musk after his pedo comments in regards to the cave rescuers. The smart/geeky/techy guy is a facade. I mainly would not consider Tesla because of Musk. The poor build quality just reinforces that stance.
- babyent 2y agoLucid Air is quite a nice car. My next EV will be a Lucid if I choose to start driving again.
- avgDev 2y agoLucid is a bit too expensive for me. However, Hyundai seems to make decent EVs. I will consider one after I upgrade my electrical panel to support decent charge speed.
- r00fus 2y agoThe newest Kia (Hyundai's sister brand) EV6 can also do massive V2L - can support 12kW power - combine that with a transfer switch, and your car doubles as your backup battery/generator.
- cchance 2y agoToo expensive, thats the big issue, EV's that are decent outside of tesla are just so fuckin expensive, or from legacy automakers that seem to just want to shove a EV engine in a shitty old design
- NewJazz 2y agoEh, IMHO both Hyundai and GM have really tried with their latest platforms to make a range of quality EVs.
- babyent 2y agoLucid is a luxury brand and it has a better quality interior and comfort than a Tesla. I’ve only ever owned a Tesla, Mazda, Subaru, and a Honda so note that’s my only personal experience. I used to have a P3D, and Tesla interiors do feel quite lacking compared to the Lucid Air I sat in at the mall. My friend has had a Lucid for a while and it still has a solid feel. I didn’t hear any creaks or rattles and it felt solid inside, if that makes sense.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoIn contrast, BYD sold over 500,000 vehicles in December alone. https://electrek.co/2025/01/02/byds-ev-sales-surged-2024-enough-top-tesla/ https://electrek.co/2025/01/02/byds-ev-sales-surged-2024-eno...
- cchance 2y agoThat includes hybrids though :S
- bryanlarsen 2y agoBYD's EV sales in Q4 were 595,413 in contrast to Tesla's 495,570.
- canucker2016 2y agofrom https://carnewschina.com/2025/01/01/byd-sold-record-breaking-4-3-million-vehicles-in-2024-a-41-increase-from-2023/ https://carnewschina.com/2025/01/01/byd-sold-record-breaking... BYD sold a record-breaking 514,809 new energy vehicles (NEVs) in December, bringing the cumulative 2024 sales to 4,272,145 units, up 41.3% compared to 3 million in 2023. This marks the first time BYD sold over 4 million cars annually. Out of it, 1,764,992 were passenger BEVs (battery electric vehicles), an increase of 12% from 1.6 million in 2023. All-electric vehicles represented 41.5% of BYD’s total sales in 2024. BYD sold 2,485,378 passenger PHEVs (plug-in hybrid vehicles) in 2024, up 72.8% from 1.4 million in 2023. Plug-in hybrids represented 58.5% of BYD’s total sales in 2024.
- renewiltord 2y agoThe Chinese automobile companies are unmatched in this. It’s just that the US has sufficient protectionism to protect its local market. But these guys are a wave like the origin of the Japanese automobile. It’s going to make life hard for American manufacturers just as the developing nations are getting rich enough for automobile purchases.
- chvid 2y agoBut none in the US and only very few in the EU.
- mbesto 2y agoMy friend said it best: "EVs are great second cars" I think we're finally hitting the saturation point of EVs as the market who adopted them is realizing their flaws as a primary vehicle: - Inadequate infrastructure (both localized "my apartment doesn't have a charging station" and more globally "I stopped at a supercharger station and it was full of people so my charge went from 100 kW to 15 kW and took 45 min to charge") - Lack of experience and knowledge around regenerative breaking - Poor battery performance in cold/extreme heat - Misunderstood maintenance changes. Instead of oil changes/filters/etc, your tires wear 20~30% faster and you have to replace the battery every 10 years. The reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this. EVs simply don't hold their value on the used market. https://www.iseecars.com/cars-that-hold-their-value-study https://www.iseecars.com/cars-that-hold-their-value-study FYI - I'm a proud owner of a Rivian after selling my Tesla.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this. EVs simply don't hold their value on the used market Those data defy simple explanation. The car with the highest 5-year depreciation is the Maserati Quattroporte (64.5%). After that the BMW 7 Series (61.8%) and Maserati Ghibli (61.3%). So for starters, you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Niches EVs have targeted. The Model 3 is shown to have a 42.9% 5-year depreciation, around the category average for SUVs.
- mbesto 2y ago> you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Fair. But the opposite is also true...Porsche 911 and 718 are both 9% and 17% depreciation values respectively, which bring the overall averages down too. Not to mention the Model S is #19 in worst depreciation. So there are a lot of factors at play other than simply saying "just eliminate all sports/expensive cars" > The Model 3 is shown to have a 42.9% 5-year depreciation, around the category average for SUVs. You first made a point about comparing apples to oranges (which was fair) and then compared apples to oranges to make another same point. /headscratch You would have to compare a Model 3 to a sedan, not an SUV. Point is, if EVs are as valuable as people make them out to be and the demand is so high for them, then why isn't the used car market telling us that?
- canucker2016 2y agoPrevious years vehicle sales for Tesla (TSLA - stock ticker) - source: https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacturer.html https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car-sales-by-manufacture... Year Sales Percent Increase from prev. yr 2023 1,808,581 ↑ 32% 2022 1,369,611 ↑ 47% 2021 930,422 ↑ 83% TSLA market cap is more than the next 19 car manufacturers combined! Source: https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers-by-market-cap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/largest-automakers...
- nabla9 2y agoFor reference: BYD Auto sold 4.27 million vehicles 41.3% jump from 2023 and has already roughly 50% of Tesla's revenue. May go past Tesla in 1-2 years. TSLA is #13 biggest car manufacturer by revenue.
- tnaxer 2y ago[flagged]
- mads 2y ago[flagged]
- throw49123 2y agoNo, from apparently RT owned AP news: https://apnews.com/article/europe-butter-prices-40fe30965677b3c21b4c55621c7d6f0c https://apnews.com/article/europe-butter-prices-40fe30965677... "Across the 27-member European Union, the price of butter rose 19% on average from October 2023 to October 2024, including by 49% in Slovakia, and 40% in Germany and the Czech Republic, according to figures provided to The Associated Press by the EU’s executive arm. Reports from individual countries indicate the cost has continued to go up in the months since." Comment from a Polish official: "She and others also cite higher energy costs from Russia’s war in Ukraine as impacting milk production."
- jaggs 2y agoIsn't it a 39% drop? From 38% rise in 2023 to -1% drop 2024?
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoNo, the -1% drop in 2024 was off of 2023's amount. It would have to be a -1% drop off of 2022's amount to cancel out 2023's gains.
- junto 2y agoGood. Musk has aligned himself with a number of people that have designs on forcing Europe’s hand to abandon Ukraine and make a strong return to Russian gas and Saudi oil. Russia and the oil rich Middle East have no desire to see an energy independent Europe powered by renewables and long term battery storage. He could be busy further developing battery technology to further enable decarbonization and energy decentralization based on renewables. Having founded an EV company, you’d think that would be a core value he would hold, however everything he currently signals speak to the opposite. I cannot fathom why on earth he now seems to be working against himself, and alienating his core customer base, who were most likely to buy EV’s — green, liberal, “woke”, left leaning consumers.
- WorldPeas 2y agomaybe he has plans to release a gas-powered cybertruck in a few years
- dabinat 2y agoI have a Tesla Model 3 and it’s the best car I’ve ever owned, but I won’t be getting another when my lease is up, solely because I don’t want to give any more money to Elon. My next car might be a Lucid, but I’ll see what the market is like in a couple of years. I do find it interesting that people think of Tesla as being a luxury brand though. I mean, sure, the Model S and Cybertruck are expensive, but you can get a Model 3 for $40k (before $7500 federal credit plus whatever incentives your state has). This is lower than the average new car price of $48k and the same as the top-end RAV4. The Model 3 is cheaper than most other electric cars in its class, and is likely the reason why Musk thinks getting rid of the federal credit will hurt his competitors more than him.