9 ms·

Tesla has taken down 2016 release noting full self driving hardware capability

135 points by ado__dev 2y ago

stoperaticless 2y ago
Generous interpretation: they want to make better and stop implying untrue things in their marketing. Cynical version: something very bad happened that we will hear in the news in next couple of days and they are panic scrubbing stuff.
- ClassyJacket 2y ago
  "Something very bad" meaning a legal problem. A bad accident killing a handful of people wouldn't make them change it.
- verelo 2y ago
  Sooooo, do those of us that bought into it get compensated for the misrepresentation? I doubt it but that’s be sensible.
  - mey 2y ago
    What is the average lifespan of a car? If the service is not delivered during the useful life of the vehicle I would assume it already qualifies as misrepresentation. 2016 is 8 years ago, I am sure plenty of those vehicles have put over 150k miles on them and have deprecated into nothing.
    - Loughla 2y ago
      It's 150k acceptable today? I was upset when my transmission went out at 200k. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the expected life of a car is quite a bit longer than that?
      - londons_explore 2y ago
        Some states/countries publish stats on car registrations/unregistrations and also record mileage each year at annual tests. I'm pretty sure somewhere on the internet you'll find enough official data to figure out median car mileage.
        Loughla 2y ago
        Well after looking, there aren't any good reliable sources for an easy number. But comparing what state data I could find, it seems like 12 years and 200k mileage is the median. So I maintain my original statement. 8 years and 150k miles for a car that is sold as a simpler (mechanically) and more reliable because of that mechanical simplicity is kind of crappy.
      - xp84 2y ago
        I feel like with the warranty usually lasting 50k or so, it’s reasonable to say many people wouldn’t keep a car, or have ever planned to, past 150k, even if the car is perfectly drivable 8 years on with that mileage. My car is that old, and I expect to keep it at least 8 more. But many would have traded in by 8 years especially if they drive so much more than me.
  - lazide 2y ago
    As is usual in these type of class actions, you’ll probably get coupon for 10% off the heated seat upgrades in a new Tesla after 10 years of litigation.
- gregors 2y ago
  They can't spot motorcycles https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-sued-by-family-motorcyclist-killed-autopilot-crash-2024-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
  - dmix 2y ago
    Seems to have been a Harley Davidson rear ended at 1am on a highway. NHTSA also opened an investigation into that crash in 2022 https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-probes-tesla-crash-205440221.html?src=rss https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-probes-tesla-crash-205... Tesla recently settled a lawsuit (where the Tesla driver died) recently from an old 2018 incident, so maybe the family saw an opportunity to try their own suit 2yrs after the incident https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-autopilot-death-settlement-1.7167870 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-autopilot-death-settl...
- ripjaygn 2y ago
  Or they just decided to clean up the blog and remove all old releases prior to 2019. Nothing from 2018 and before in the blog anymore.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    Intent matters little, consequences matter significantly. Strong argument exists that your comment focused on the intent instead of the perceived outcome.
  - londons_explore 2y ago
    This. Someone probably migrated the backend from Django to Jekyl and manually migrated a few years of blog posts and decided that anything older than 2020 was no longer relevant.
- rvz 2y ago
  This should be unsurprising to anyone who saw through the lies from Tesla and Elon over FSD (Fools Self Driving) after the California DMV already went after Tesla over their false advertising. [0] The worst part was that the customers paying for the system didn't even know they got scammed, as put eloquently in this HN comment. [1]. [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-05/dmv-false-advertising-tesla https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-05/dmv-false-... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364110
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Kirby64 2y ago
Very recently they forked hardware 4 and hardware 3 FSD versions… I wonder if they’re about to attempt to claim older HW3 capable vehicles can’t actually do “actual” FSD and only HW4 “can”. Or maybe only HW5. Either way, they’re gonna get a line of lawsuits ready if they do.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  The longer they wait to make such a statement, the cheaper it becomes (due to more cars being taken off the road, or sold 2nd/3rd/4th hand to new owners who don't care). At that point, they can decide if it's cheaper to settle all the lawsuits and refund all the angry owners, or if it's worth making an upgrade adapter to fit HW4/5 into the slot designed for HW3.
infotainment 2y ago
I never understood how they didn't get in trouble for false advertising. The case that particularly comes to mind is the 2016/2017 cars sold as "Full Self Driving Capable" that later ended up requiring a $2000 update.
- jppope 2y ago
  no one bothered to start up a lawsuit
  - TheAlchemist 2y ago
    My understanding was that people did sue them and got reimbursed for FSD purchases. It's not a class action though - it's arbitration on a per case basis.
  - squigz 2y ago
    I wonder how much it would cost to finance a lawsuit against the likes of Tesla.
- torlok 2y ago
  I think they given the known manufacturing issues, and poor customer support at the time, whoever bought a Tesla wouldn't sue even if instead of having a car delivered, Musk would take a dump on their driveway.
- cedws 2y ago
  I don’t know about Tesla but I know that Elon Musk is very careful to qualify all of his obscenely optimistic timelines with “I think that…” or something to the same effect. Most likely to shield himself from lawsuits. He was saying Tesla cars would be a self driving fleet back in like 2018. He was saying autonomous Teslas would be printing their owners money. Somehow investors don’t give a shit that he just keeps making up bollocks then never delivers.
Vortigaunt 2y ago
But elon told me FSD would come out next year![1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16] [1]https://fortune.com/2015/12/21/elon-musk-interview/ https://fortune.com/2015/12/21/elon-musk-interview/ [2]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920 [3]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/self-driving-car-elon-musk-tech-predictions-tesla-google https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/self-driv... [4]https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/driverless-tesla-will-travel-l-nyc-2017-says-musk-n670206 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/driverless-tesla-will... [5]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768 [6]https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_building_and_boring/transcript?subtitle=en https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_buildin... [7]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280 [8]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1063123659290595328 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1063123659290595328 [9]https://web.archive.org/web/20190220051410/https://www.ark-invest.com/research/podcast/elon-musk-podcast https://web.archive.org/web/20190220051410/https://www.ark-i... [10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE [12]https://web.archive.org/web/20200709130939/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBysm4_OceI&gl=US&hl=en https://web.archive.org/web/20200709130939/https://www.youtu... [13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2HXId2Xhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2HXId2Xhg [14]https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-springer-tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-spr... [15]https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-full-self-driving-tesla-earnings-call/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-full-self-drivi... [16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwq_PhtvLwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwq_PhtvLwo (Or simply, https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/)
- deisteve 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ripjaygn 2y ago
    Probably will happen, the unions hate Tesla and the administration was so scared of them that they didn't even invite Tesla to the presidential EV summit in 2021 where Biden praised GM's Mary Barra as the EV leader when Tesla had delivered over 115,000 electric cars in the United States, while General Motors produced just 26 EVs. https://www.teslarati.com/former-tesla-exec-confirms-wsj-report-on-biden-admins-anti-tesla-bias/ https://www.teslarati.com/former-tesla-exec-confirms-wsj-rep... So won't be a big surprise if Musk is thrown into jail on some trumped up charges for giving optimistic timelines like a typical techie, meanwhile politicians lie all the time and face zero punishment.
seeknotfind 2y ago
Hey but consider this is allowed on Twitter, that's at least something good. Self driving is so nice, wish they'd have it too.
rvz 2y ago
So they finally stopped lying about their deceptive advertising over their Fools Self Driving (FSD) contraption? That system was indefensible and has put the lives of drivers on the road at risk as I have said many times before. [0] At least for FSD it is time for the fanatics to snap out of Tesla's lies over this scam as well as the 'promises' which Elon repeatedly claimed to deliver. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32575938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32575938
robertclaus 2y ago
Wasn't there a case in CA that said Tesla couldn't use the term FSD for driver assistant technologies anymore?
- modeless 2y ago
  It's called "FSD (Supervised)" now.
ripjaygn 2y ago
Misleading, all releases prior to 2019 have been removed from the blog.
forgot-im-old 2y ago
Elon's been on quite the information suppression run this week. Adding a dislike button, telling his followers to bury left content, and stories about his attempts to "win at nuclear war" https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1eu994l/musk_is_the_star_of_project_2025_hint/ https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1eu994l/mus...
- oceanplexian 2y ago
  I don’t know about the first two, but if we could build a missile defense system using American space capability that’s decades ahead of the rest of the world, is there any reason that isn’t an excellent idea? No amount of wishful thinking is going to un-exist the thousands of Russian ICBMs. Personally, I like the idea of my existence not hinging on the mood of a dictator half a world away.
  - baseballdork 2y ago
    There's an argument to be made that that would destabilize MAD by encouraging a first strike.
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    I'd like this to be built by the US government, not a person who turned off Ukraine's starlink access on a whim based on his personal opinion of an international event.
    - kcb 2y ago
      Wasn't it more like, "Here's some hardware don't use it as a weapon system", "Hey can we use this to blow up some russian ships?", "No", internet goes on collective Musk hates Ukraine and loves Putin tirade even though his company is actively enabling Ukrainian battlefield communications since day 1.
      - lazide 2y ago
        He’s gone on multiple Pro-Putin screeds in the past, and said in the past Ukraine should just give up and let Russia have the land they previously seized in the war in the interest of ‘peace’. He’s very, very far from neutral in this.
LeoPanthera 2y ago
I've recently been reasonably happy with FSD. But. I paid for it with my car 4 years ago, but I didn't actually get it until ~2 years ago, and even then, it's been fairly sketchy, and only getting a bit less sketchy with recent updates. I believed their initial claims about what was then simply called "Autopilot", and I'm kind of mad at myself for doing so. I'm also mad that FSD development has been switched to a new version of the autopilot hardware that my car doesn't have, and apparently can never be upgraded to. The irony is, I would at least consider a new Tesla, were it not for Elon's antics and interference in US politics. While he's still there, I will never buy another Tesla, and I won't keep this one when the warranty runs out, at the end of this year.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  > not for Elon's antics and interference in US politics. Every major company CEO out there interferes with US Politics. You just started to notice?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- gordon_freeman 2y ago
  I feel like something is off with Elon and he is not well. Nowadays he's basically going against everything he stood for so long: freedom of speech (trying to suppress views that he does not like), climate change (now he does not have problem with oil companies), Negative impact of AI (liking/sharing fake AI posts to promote Trump), etc. It is a sad story actually that his potential is wasted like this way.
  - droopyEyelids 2y ago
    My theory is some life extension or mind hacking thing he got into was tainted with heavy metals, and hes suffering from relatively severe lead or mercury poisoning
    - replwoacause 2y ago
Animats 2y ago
"He who controls the present controls the past. He who controls the past controls the future." - Orwell
gordon_freeman 2y ago
Anyone who is still thinking to trust Tesla AP/FSD should watch this video [1] Most of the Tesla's high stock valuation depends on them executing Robotaxi biz plan and seeing how Waymo cars are self-driving in some cities for so long and now beginning on highways, I still wonder why is taking them so long to understand the proven first-principle that LIDAR and Radars are essential hardware components to solve self driving and they just can't rely on cameras alone. [1] https://youtu.be/V2u3dcH2VGM?si=iUvrnZWgYK9stylv https://youtu.be/V2u3dcH2VGM?si=iUvrnZWgYK9stylv
- Loughla 2y ago
  I get the sneaky feeling the idea of fsd with cameras is just an idea that is WILDLY ahead of its time. The technology isn't there yet, but will be eventually. It's the middle part that's scary (where we are now I guess)
  - orwin 2y ago
    The issue with vision only, especially without IR is that even if it becomes safer than a human, it won't ever have the awareness of vision+IR/Lidar, thus be less safe.
  - londons_explore 2y ago
    If camera based self driving doesn't happen at first, it never will later. That's because it would be a safety downgrade, and the public never accepts new technology which does the same as a previous one, yet drops a safety feature. For example, requiring a handbrake separate from the main brakes in cars. There hasn't been an engineering reason to keep these separate for 50 years, the main brakes already are doubly redundant. But people won't adjust laws to reduce safety, even if the safety reduction is so vanishingly small so as to not matter.
modeless 2y ago
People haven't forgotten the promises. I expect that Tesla will be forced to upgrade older cars with a new autopilot computer. It will probably happen after their next chip release. In fact, that's why I purchased FSD in the first place. It was only $3k at the time and already included one guaranteed computer upgrade (which I did later get); I suspected a second computer upgrade would eventually be required. Possibly a camera upgrade as well.
Animats 2y ago
Tesla's "Fake Self Driving" is looking pathetic compared to Waymo's real self driving. Tesla was going to announce their self-driving taxi a few weeks back.[1] Now that's "slipped" to October. If it really worked at all, there would be Tesla robo-taxis with safety drivers visible on the roads right now. We'd see them slowly going fully autonomous, like Waymo and Cruise did. Nobody is reporting seeing such test cars on the road. We got to watch Waymo get slowly better for years, with public reports to DMV of every incident. Each year, the stats got better, and eventually they got DMV approval for full autonomy carrying paying passengers. Now, they're a routine part of San Francisco life. [1] https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-robotaxi-everything-confirmed/ https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-robotaxi-everything-confirmed...
AwaAwa 2y ago
After 8 years of cashing in on the hype. Better late than never. Especially when there are no penalties, and umpteen FSD subscribers sending Tesla money.

135 points by ado__dev 2y ago

Generous interpretation: they want to make better and stop implying untrue things in their marketing. Cynical version: something very bad happened that we will hear in the news in next couple of days and they are panic scrubbing stuff.

ClassyJacket 2y ago
"Something very bad" meaning a legal problem. A bad accident killing a handful of people wouldn't make them change it.
verelo 2y ago
Sooooo, do those of us that bought into it get compensated for the misrepresentation? I doubt it but that’s be sensible.
- mey 2y ago
  What is the average lifespan of a car? If the service is not delivered during the useful life of the vehicle I would assume it already qualifies as misrepresentation. 2016 is 8 years ago, I am sure plenty of those vehicles have put over 150k miles on them and have deprecated into nothing.
  - Loughla 2y ago
    It's 150k acceptable today? I was upset when my transmission went out at 200k. Maybe I'm wrong but I think the expected life of a car is quite a bit longer than that?
    - londons_explore 2y ago
      Some states/countries publish stats on car registrations/unregistrations and also record mileage each year at annual tests. I'm pretty sure somewhere on the internet you'll find enough official data to figure out median car mileage.
      - Loughla 2y ago
        Well after looking, there aren't any good reliable sources for an easy number. But comparing what state data I could find, it seems like 12 years and 200k mileage is the median. So I maintain my original statement. 8 years and 150k miles for a car that is sold as a simpler (mechanically) and more reliable because of that mechanical simplicity is kind of crappy.
    - xp84 2y ago
      I feel like with the warranty usually lasting 50k or so, it’s reasonable to say many people wouldn’t keep a car, or have ever planned to, past 150k, even if the car is perfectly drivable 8 years on with that mileage. My car is that old, and I expect to keep it at least 8 more. But many would have traded in by 8 years especially if they drive so much more than me.
- lazide 2y ago
  As is usual in these type of class actions, you’ll probably get coupon for 10% off the heated seat upgrades in a new Tesla after 10 years of litigation.
gregors 2y ago
They can't spot motorcycles https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-sued-by-family-motorcyclist-killed-autopilot-crash-2024-08-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...
- dmix 2y ago
  Seems to have been a Harley Davidson rear ended at 1am on a highway. NHTSA also opened an investigation into that crash in 2022 https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-probes-tesla-crash-205440221.html?src=rss https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/1-u-probes-tesla-crash-205... Tesla recently settled a lawsuit (where the Tesla driver died) recently from an old 2018 incident, so maybe the family saw an opportunity to try their own suit 2yrs after the incident https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-autopilot-death-settlement-1.7167870 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tesla-autopilot-death-settl...
ripjaygn 2y ago
Or they just decided to clean up the blog and remove all old releases prior to 2019. Nothing from 2018 and before in the blog anymore.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Intent matters little, consequences matter significantly. Strong argument exists that your comment focused on the intent instead of the perceived outcome.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  This. Someone probably migrated the backend from Django to Jekyl and manually migrated a few years of blog posts and decided that anything older than 2020 was no longer relevant.
rvz 2y ago
This should be unsurprising to anyone who saw through the lies from Tesla and Elon over FSD (Fools Self Driving) after the California DMV already went after Tesla over their false advertising. [0] The worst part was that the customers paying for the system didn't even know they got scammed, as put eloquently in this HN comment. [1]. [0] https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-05/dmv-false-advertising-tesla https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-05/dmv-false-... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32364110
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Kirby64 2y ago

Very recently they forked hardware 4 and hardware 3 FSD versions… I wonder if they’re about to attempt to claim older HW3 capable vehicles can’t actually do “actual” FSD and only HW4 “can”. Or maybe only HW5. Either way, they’re gonna get a line of lawsuits ready if they do.

londons_explore 2y ago
The longer they wait to make such a statement, the cheaper it becomes (due to more cars being taken off the road, or sold 2nd/3rd/4th hand to new owners who don't care). At that point, they can decide if it's cheaper to settle all the lawsuits and refund all the angry owners, or if it's worth making an upgrade adapter to fit HW4/5 into the slot designed for HW3.

infotainment 2y ago

I never understood how they didn't get in trouble for false advertising. The case that particularly comes to mind is the 2016/2017 cars sold as "Full Self Driving Capable" that later ended up requiring a $2000 update.

jppope 2y ago
no one bothered to start up a lawsuit
- TheAlchemist 2y ago
  My understanding was that people did sue them and got reimbursed for FSD purchases. It's not a class action though - it's arbitration on a per case basis.
- squigz 2y ago
  I wonder how much it would cost to finance a lawsuit against the likes of Tesla.
torlok 2y ago
I think they given the known manufacturing issues, and poor customer support at the time, whoever bought a Tesla wouldn't sue even if instead of having a car delivered, Musk would take a dump on their driveway.
cedws 2y ago
I don’t know about Tesla but I know that Elon Musk is very careful to qualify all of his obscenely optimistic timelines with “I think that…” or something to the same effect. Most likely to shield himself from lawsuits. He was saying Tesla cars would be a self driving fleet back in like 2018. He was saying autonomous Teslas would be printing their owners money. Somehow investors don’t give a shit that he just keeps making up bollocks then never delivers.

Vortigaunt 2y ago

But elon told me FSD would come out next year![1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16] [1]https://fortune.com/2015/12/21/elon-musk-interview/ https://fortune.com/2015/12/21/elon-musk-interview/ [2]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/686279251293777920 [3]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/self-driving-car-elon-musk-tech-predictions-tesla-google https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/self-driv... [4]https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/driverless-tesla-will-travel-l-nyc-2017-says-musk-n670206 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/driverless-tesla-will... [5]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/823727035088416768 [6]https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_building_and_boring/transcript?subtitle=en https://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_future_we_re_buildin... [7]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/866482406160609280 [8]https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1063123659290595328 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1063123659290595328 [9]https://web.archive.org/web/20190220051410/https://www.ark-invest.com/research/podcast/elon-musk-podcast https://web.archive.org/web/20190220051410/https://www.ark-i... [10]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucp0TTmvqOE [12]https://web.archive.org/web/20200709130939/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBysm4_OceI&gl=US&hl=en https://web.archive.org/web/20200709130939/https://www.youtu... [13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2HXId2Xhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2HXId2Xhg [14]https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-springer-tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-interview-axel-spr... [15]https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-full-self-driving-tesla-earnings-call/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/elon-musk-full-self-drivi... [16]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwq_PhtvLwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwq_PhtvLwo (Or simply, https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/)

deisteve 2y ago
[flagged]
- ripjaygn 2y ago
  Probably will happen, the unions hate Tesla and the administration was so scared of them that they didn't even invite Tesla to the presidential EV summit in 2021 where Biden praised GM's Mary Barra as the EV leader when Tesla had delivered over 115,000 electric cars in the United States, while General Motors produced just 26 EVs. https://www.teslarati.com/former-tesla-exec-confirms-wsj-report-on-biden-admins-anti-tesla-bias/ https://www.teslarati.com/former-tesla-exec-confirms-wsj-rep... So won't be a big surprise if Musk is thrown into jail on some trumped up charges for giving optimistic timelines like a typical techie, meanwhile politicians lie all the time and face zero punishment.

seeknotfind 2y ago

Hey but consider this is allowed on Twitter, that's at least something good. Self driving is so nice, wish they'd have it too.

rvz 2y ago

So they finally stopped lying about their deceptive advertising over their Fools Self Driving (FSD) contraption? That system was indefensible and has put the lives of drivers on the road at risk as I have said many times before. [0] At least for FSD it is time for the fanatics to snap out of Tesla's lies over this scam as well as the 'promises' which Elon repeatedly claimed to deliver. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32575938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32575938

robertclaus 2y ago

Wasn't there a case in CA that said Tesla couldn't use the term FSD for driver assistant technologies anymore?

modeless 2y ago
It's called "FSD (Supervised)" now.

ripjaygn 2y ago

Misleading, all releases prior to 2019 have been removed from the blog.

forgot-im-old 2y ago

Elon's been on quite the information suppression run this week. Adding a dislike button, telling his followers to bury left content, and stories about his attempts to "win at nuclear war" https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1eu994l/musk_is_the_star_of_project_2025_hint/ https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/1eu994l/mus...

oceanplexian 2y ago
I don’t know about the first two, but if we could build a missile defense system using American space capability that’s decades ahead of the rest of the world, is there any reason that isn’t an excellent idea? No amount of wishful thinking is going to un-exist the thousands of Russian ICBMs. Personally, I like the idea of my existence not hinging on the mood of a dictator half a world away.
- baseballdork 2y ago
  There's an argument to be made that that would destabilize MAD by encouraging a first strike.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  I'd like this to be built by the US government, not a person who turned off Ukraine's starlink access on a whim based on his personal opinion of an international event.
  - kcb 2y ago
    Wasn't it more like, "Here's some hardware don't use it as a weapon system", "Hey can we use this to blow up some russian ships?", "No", internet goes on collective Musk hates Ukraine and loves Putin tirade even though his company is actively enabling Ukrainian battlefield communications since day 1.
    - lazide 2y ago
      He’s gone on multiple Pro-Putin screeds in the past, and said in the past Ukraine should just give up and let Russia have the land they previously seized in the war in the interest of ‘peace’. He’s very, very far from neutral in this.

LeoPanthera 2y ago

I've recently been reasonably happy with FSD. But. I paid for it with my car 4 years ago, but I didn't actually get it until ~2 years ago, and even then, it's been fairly sketchy, and only getting a bit less sketchy with recent updates. I believed their initial claims about what was then simply called "Autopilot", and I'm kind of mad at myself for doing so. I'm also mad that FSD development has been switched to a new version of the autopilot hardware that my car doesn't have, and apparently can never be upgraded to. The irony is, I would at least consider a new Tesla, were it not for Elon's antics and interference in US politics. While he's still there, I will never buy another Tesla, and I won't keep this one when the warranty runs out, at the end of this year.

ekianjo 2y ago
> not for Elon's antics and interference in US politics. Every major company CEO out there interferes with US Politics. You just started to notice?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gordon_freeman 2y ago
I feel like something is off with Elon and he is not well. Nowadays he's basically going against everything he stood for so long: freedom of speech (trying to suppress views that he does not like), climate change (now he does not have problem with oil companies), Negative impact of AI (liking/sharing fake AI posts to promote Trump), etc. It is a sad story actually that his potential is wasted like this way.
- droopyEyelids 2y ago
  My theory is some life extension or mind hacking thing he got into was tainted with heavy metals, and hes suffering from relatively severe lead or mercury poisoning
  - replwoacause 2y ago

Animats 2y ago

"He who controls the present controls the past. He who controls the past controls the future." - Orwell

gordon_freeman 2y ago

Anyone who is still thinking to trust Tesla AP/FSD should watch this video [1] Most of the Tesla's high stock valuation depends on them executing Robotaxi biz plan and seeing how Waymo cars are self-driving in some cities for so long and now beginning on highways, I still wonder why is taking them so long to understand the proven first-principle that LIDAR and Radars are essential hardware components to solve self driving and they just can't rely on cameras alone. [1] https://youtu.be/V2u3dcH2VGM?si=iUvrnZWgYK9stylv https://youtu.be/V2u3dcH2VGM?si=iUvrnZWgYK9stylv

Loughla 2y ago
I get the sneaky feeling the idea of fsd with cameras is just an idea that is WILDLY ahead of its time. The technology isn't there yet, but will be eventually. It's the middle part that's scary (where we are now I guess)
- orwin 2y ago
  The issue with vision only, especially without IR is that even if it becomes safer than a human, it won't ever have the awareness of vision+IR/Lidar, thus be less safe.
- londons_explore 2y ago
  If camera based self driving doesn't happen at first, it never will later. That's because it would be a safety downgrade, and the public never accepts new technology which does the same as a previous one, yet drops a safety feature. For example, requiring a handbrake separate from the main brakes in cars. There hasn't been an engineering reason to keep these separate for 50 years, the main brakes already are doubly redundant. But people won't adjust laws to reduce safety, even if the safety reduction is so vanishingly small so as to not matter.

modeless 2y ago

People haven't forgotten the promises. I expect that Tesla will be forced to upgrade older cars with a new autopilot computer. It will probably happen after their next chip release. In fact, that's why I purchased FSD in the first place. It was only $3k at the time and already included one guaranteed computer upgrade (which I did later get); I suspected a second computer upgrade would eventually be required. Possibly a camera upgrade as well.

Animats 2y ago

Tesla's "Fake Self Driving" is looking pathetic compared to Waymo's real self driving. Tesla was going to announce their self-driving taxi a few weeks back.[1] Now that's "slipped" to October. If it really worked at all, there would be Tesla robo-taxis with safety drivers visible on the roads right now. We'd see them slowly going fully autonomous, like Waymo and Cruise did. Nobody is reporting seeing such test cars on the road. We got to watch Waymo get slowly better for years, with public reports to DMV of every incident. Each year, the stats got better, and eventually they got DMV approval for full autonomy carrying paying passengers. Now, they're a routine part of San Francisco life. [1] https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-robotaxi-everything-confirmed/ https://www.topspeed.com/tesla-robotaxi-everything-confirmed...

AwaAwa 2y ago

After 8 years of cashing in on the hype. Better late than never. Especially when there are no penalties, and umpteen FSD subscribers sending Tesla money.