12 ms·
End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- jimjimjim 2y agoI met a traveller from an antique land Who said, Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert.
- mangamadaiyan 2y ago... Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! No thing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare.
- gnabgib 2y agoArticle title: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia ‘forced to scale back’ plans for desert megacity
- redwood 2y agoWell that was utterly predictable
- RGamma 2y agoMy thoughts are with the fellas who filled their coffers. Well done!
- Teever 2y agoYeah but I wonder is who signed off on this? Like, were they duped into it, or is it part of some bigger scheme? What is that scheme?
- namaria 2y agoNo one "signs off" on an absolute monarch's design.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> No one "signs off" on an absolute monarch's design Nitpick, but MBS isn't the sovereign. His father is. Given MBS isn't acting as regent, he's actually--in the most technical way--a tyrant: "the tyrant was Very Obviously but not formally in charge, because he ruled extra-constitutonally, rather than abolishing the constitution. This is what seperates tyranny, a form of extra-constitutional one man rule, from monarchy, a form of traditional and thus constitutional one-man rule" [1]. [1] https://acoup.blog/2023/03/17/collections-how-to-polis-part-iia-politeia-in-the-polis/ https://acoup.blog/2023/03/17/collections-how-to-polis-part-...
- dragonwriter 2y agoMBS is formally in charge from the perspective of anyone but the King since being appointed PM (a title normally held by the monarch), and arguably even before that as First Deputy Prime Minister. His power is not (as far as anyone not privy to the private preferences of King Salman can say) extraconstitutional, since it flows directly from royal decree giving him the position and authority he holds, and Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy where any delegation of authority the King makes is, ipso facto, constitutional.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> since it flows directly from royal decree giving him the position and authority he holds Do you have a source for the decree? (EDIT: Nvm, Salman delegated various affairs to MBS [1], as well as made him PM [2]. Salman remains the head of state.) I'd still argue that MBS is not formally in charge. The President can delegate their authority to a rando, that doesn't make it lower-case constitutional, e.g. Edith Wilson [3]. (Granted, that was done without formal decree.) Going back to the Greek analog, tyrants would usually gain some instrument from the formal leader technically legitimising their actions. But the formal leader wasn't the one deciding. The tyrant was. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1DA23M/ https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1DA23M/ [2] https://amwaj.media/media-monitor/saudi-power-transition-continues-as-mbs-becomes-pm https://amwaj.media/media-monitor/saudi-power-transition-con... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Wilson#Increased_role_after_husband's_stroke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Wilson#Increased_role_af...
- neglesaks 2y agoCompletely predictable; "NEOM" is an engineering travesty, even though it promises to be "green" and carless.
- bryanrasmussen 2y agoI always expected Megacity One would be built somewhere in England.
- Ekaros 2y agoI doubt that. It would be somewhere in London, and no way anyone making decisions would allow their property values to drop by building that much anything.
- smnrchrds 2y agoNo no, that's where Airstrip One is.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y agoSomething tells me it won't be built, it will be evolved or grown from an existing big city.
- gherkinnn 2y agoGall's Law holds true > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that worked. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over with a working simple system.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hn_throwaway_99 2y agoSaudi Arabia has this weird affinity for these completely ridiculous sci-fi projects that are proposed as actual non-fantasy developments. See the Mukaab for another example.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y agoI guess it does get them attention
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Saudi Arabia has this weird affinity for these completely ridiculous sci-fi projects Same reason Egypt is building a decadent new capital: it lets the ruler pay off his supporters.
- namaria 2y agoBingo. The boondoggle is meant as a cover for naked cash transfer. It's a thinly veiled excuse and it's meant to fail. Maintaining it doesn't generate the cash transfers of the desired magnitude
- Mashimo 2y agoAlso most "normal" people will be physical separated from the ruling people. Makes it harder to protest government buildings.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- endoftheline 2y agoI'm surprised not to see the article mention the previous report[1] about the three men who were sentenced to death, the killing of one, and the decades long prison sentences for others over their opposition to this project. Karmic justice requires this project to be crushed by the sand that these arrogant dictators tried to impose their steel dick over. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/03/un-rights-experts-denounce-planned-saudi-executions https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/03/un-rights-expe...
- neglesaks 2y agoIndeed, there is a reason for the saying "what comes around, goes around". In this case, a prestige project that the Saudis try to market themselves to the world as modern and green and ambitious, but they still are quite authoritarian in the end.
- chipdart 2y ago> Indeed, there is a reason for the saying "what comes around, goes around". Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see scaling down a project as karmic retribution for murder.
- Someone 2y ago
- fuzzfactor 2y agoAnybody would be forced to scale that back.
- gherkinnn 2y agoThe whole idea of a linear city is daft. A circle is way more efficient at getting around. The dimensions of the Line are, of course, silly as well.
- readthenotes1 2y agoWell, of course, a circle is way more efficient at getting around. But only with a line can you be aligned with your ruler's dreams.
- pndy 2y agoOf course it is - this is clearly prince's personal ego stroking project and wall placed across nearly the whole province looks adequate than just some 'boring' circular megacity
- keiferski 2y agoIs that actually true from a transportation physics perspective? I can’t imagine that a curved tram/train/etc. would be able to accelerate and decelerate as efficiently as one on a straight path.
- Moldoteck 2y agocircular/disk cities are basically line cities that are copied and rotated, you still can build straight line transport. If you talk about real circle cities and not disks-the idea is just as bad as straight line
- ashildr 2y agoA tram or even regular trains would not have to be very fast for those distances and for faster trains we already have the technology to lean into curves - it‘s quite common in Europe. And why not build a radial subway to get on to the opposing side of a circular city? (And why build this nonsense in a desert at all?)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Animats 2y agoHow's the Saudi ski resort coming?[1] That's part of the same project. That's supposed to be ready for the 2026 Winter Games. Google Earth shows roads, a perimeter fence, a water tower, and some buildings as of August 2023, so work is going on. [1] https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/trojena https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/trojena
- cjs_ac 2y agoI worked on the design of this a couple of years ago. One day we were tasked with working out how to freeze the lake over so that people could go ice skating on it. There's a fractal insanity to the whole project. As you focus in on any one aspect, more silliness appears. The design process is driven by the Crown Prince pointing at 3D renders and saying he likes the one that looks the most cyberpunk.
- theGeatZhopa 2y agoThat comes unexpected. I really would like to see how this works out. It's a possible way of living in the future. If the earth becomes more fiendly, such cities would offer autonomous compounds for the people. Now i would like to know if somebody is building the ARCs ...
- yard2010 2y agoLet me tell you something about the middle east Habibi.. Everything here is a ruse.
- theGeatZhopa 2y agoI got it, you dislike middle east. Now, please, concentrate on my arguments again.
- reducesuffering 2y ago“unexpected” That is not the word I or most of HN would have used… It’s a sad state of the world that this delusional lunatic is dictator of a $1T GDP country instead of everyone else that understands this is a stupid idea.
- theGeatZhopa 2y agoYes, you can mix your dislike into your opinions, but they still stay your opinions. I'm interested in the technology, in the achievements that are possible, the problem solving and solutions found to do something of this scope. It's not about lunatics or the ** arabs dictators or killers ** say what you want. For example, the need for the special sand for the concrete. Their sand, which they have plenty of, is completely not suitable for this. It's too fine. So, how this will be solved? The world could learn a lot of it - just imagine, you can use the Sahara sands instead of the special sands that need to be somehow and somewhere resourced atm. That would reduce the house building costs a lot and enable affordable housing everywhere. I'm talking about the proper way of housing, like in the story of the three pigs and the wolf. So can you explain why you dislike technology and advancement in city buildings, experiments and new learnings? I don't quite get it.
- yreg 2y agoI am absolutely convinced that these projects are going to fail. Is there a way to make money by betting against them?
- Havoc 2y agoSaudi Arabia would do better with same logical projects
- delta_p_delta_x 2y agoThe only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shopping malls, and weird buildings and monuments, all while local chiefs who oppose stupid and unrealistic white elephant vanity projects are executed in the back alley. This is one reason why I would like more nuclear power: it'll take some of the money away from the Gulf.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere Couldn't that element be self-sufficient on solar?
- widforss 2y agoMy first thought was that it would be like a perpetuum mobile, but since heat pumps have like 400 % efficiency, it should, yes.
- evrimoztamur 2y agoSolar in desert has a lot of issues including wind and sand coverage. Although the deserts of the region may seem like unchanging environments, the ecosystem and weather is hostile to solar installations (amongst other things). Moreover, solar panels become less efficient at higher sustained temperatures, which increases land and infrastructure maintenance costs. https://eepower.com/industry-articles/is-desert-based-solar-a-good-idea/ https://eepower.com/industry-articles/is-desert-based-solar-...
- onethought 2y agoSome kind of cool idea that desalinates/heats water and cools solar panels at the same time. The sand bit feels like a filter problem.
- benjijay 2y agoDoes this mean I might finally stop seeing adverts for it? Can we stop pretending it was ever even remotely viable?
- dragonwriter 2y ago> Can we stop pretending it was ever even remotely viable? Not sure who this “we” is who ever started, which is a requirement for stopping.
- KoftaBob 2y agoThe people writing articles about it constantly.
- slifin 2y agoI'm surprised there isn't a bigger movement to intentionally boycott buying fuel from countries like this A lot of people in western countries indirectly pay for this
- SilverBirch 2y agoWhat would be the motivation for a boycott? That the Saudis spend their money on stupid vanity projects? In general I think this is one of the better uses of the cash - hell, a vast amount of the money spent on this is going to flow straight out to western companies who have the experience and expertise to actually deliver these complex infrastructure projects. Think of the alternatives, top 5 oil producing countries: US(13bb/day), Russia (13bb/day), Saudi (9bb/day), Canada (5bb/day), Iraq(4bb/day). We all know what's currently happening in Russia. The US and Canada have good production, but they're a long way from Europe. So how exactly do you expect Eastern Europe to heat their homes during winter? Let's be clear, they can't even really afford to boycott Russia at the moment - Russian oil is pumping out to India and getting re-badged. So the idea they'd pick a fight with Saudi Arabia seems ambitious to say the least.
- m000 2y ago> That the Saudis spend their money on stupid vanity projects? I guess over human rights transgressions. But the collective West is very selective on whose transgressions they are willing to overlook and whose not. And, indeed, at this point, in no position to play hardball with the Saudis.
- The_Colonel 2y ago> Russia (13bb/day) I wonder where do you have this number from? According to this source, Russia never reached 11bb/day, current production is ~10bb: https://ycharts.com/indicators/russia_crude_oil_production https://ycharts.com/indicators/russia_crude_oil_production
- SilverBirch 2y agoSorry that was a typo, you're right it's 10.
- sztanko 2y agoEconomics explained YouTube channel has a good coverage on the rationale behind the crazy projects like this. In short, while the project itself might not make much sense, the infrastructure created to build it will stay and it makes it more accommodating to build other, more rational projects. https://youtu.be/pnrAxfzHElo?si=ceaS6MIs7qrP9ohL https://youtu.be/pnrAxfzHElo?si=ceaS6MIs7qrP9ohL
- Barrin92 2y agoThat's a rationalization, not a rationale. Every project can have useful byproducts, and nobody's rationale is to start a dumb one trillion dollar project rather than a smart one. The reason why this exists is obviously that these projects are started by absolute rulers who want to build themselves vanity monuments the same way their ancient predecessors did.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y agoComplete bullshit. If you're only building a mega project so you're forced to develop the infrastructure around it, why don't you choose a sensible megaproject instead? Answer: because that's not why they're doing it, you just made that up.
- gabesullice 2y agoApollo
- pfdietz 2y agoApollo was a national vanity project that has been rationalized by exaggerating the spinoffs.
- rany_ 2y agoMaybe I'm cynical but I really doubt that the Crown Prince is smart enough to have thought about it like this and even then, they could achieve the same (supposed) end result while also pursuing a more achievable mega project and get more out of that $1.5T.
- brodo 2y agoI recommend these YouTube essays on it: - Adam Something: NEOM Is The Parody Of The Future [1] - Thunderf00t: NEOM, The Line: BUSTED!! [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB_X5ZUcZlE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB_X5ZUcZlE [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyWaax07_ks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyWaax07_ks
- apexalpha 2y agoThis Adam Something also has a video essay where he trashes battery electric busses as the most ridiculously bad idea ever. At the time of publishing thousands and thousands were already on the road for years in the Netherlands. This guy checks what his audience already thinks on a subject and then makes up arguments to go along with it. Take it with a kilo of salt.
- dangerwill 2y agoI totally agree in broad strokes about Adam Something. He's an unserious urbanist meme YouTuber essentially. However, battery electric buses are seriously more expensive and a bigger carbon sink than a trolley bus network. But governments don't like to build infrastructure in the west and some people don't like the look of overhead wires. This isn't economically or environmentally efficient but those preferences can cause those issues to be ignored. Until the high cost of battery replacements kick in after the initial honeymoon period...
- apexalpha 2y agoIn the Netherlands all big cities have tram networks. So we do build infrastructure all the time, including overhead wires. We even have a city that built a trolley bus network. But it never caught on simply because it has too many drawbacks. It's worse than a BEV bus and worse than a tram but does come with the upfront investment bill. BEV buses that replace diesel ones are working great.
- throwaway63467 2y agoI think these projects mostly exist to funnel away / launder money, no one really thinks they will become reality. A multi-decade mega project is just a great way to divert large amounts of money without raising too much suspicion as there’s very little oversight of what’s really happening there.
- alephnerd 2y agoPretty much this. The companies subcontracted on Neom all had some amount of investment or ownership from either the royal family's fund or the sovereign fund.
- usrusr 2y agoBut is the money spent coming from different pockets? Doesn't necessarily counter your argument though, could be sovereign fund -> family, with those contractors owned by the source pocket effectively being noops in terms of that funneling. And even that could still very much be worthwhile, as in generate business for the company, sell off the company to external investors based on those numbers and later phase out the artificially generated demand.
- alephnerd 2y agoAuthoritarian regimes aren't as unitary as people think they are - in reality you have multiple power bases and factions to keep happy (and they have their own family offices). Furthermore, we live in a globalized world. In 2024, almost every country is dependent on international investors bringing in liquidity. Graft is fine, so long as execution happens. This means you have multiple different firms joining in these kinds of infra investments. Some are international investors (eg. Citigroup, HSBC, Jardins), some are regional investors (eg. SNB, SAB), some are family offices, and some are the government itself. The international investors are used to maintain international credibility, the regional investors are used as fixers by the international investors, the family offices are those regionally prominent members who can make or break procurement, and the government investment funds that act as the lubricant to manage all these different factions. Basically, these investments are used to not only show off regional power, but also pay off regionally prominent factions via Family Offices or minority ownership. This happens from Saudi Arabia (eg. Neom) to Japan [0] to South Korea [1] to Poland [2]. This is very common in newly developed countries as well as developing countries (eg. CCDI's crackdown on land corruption in China, the Odenbrecht scandal in Brazil, the various Adani linked scandals in India). > as in generate business for the company, sell off the company to external investors There's no reason to. Once a connected company executes successfully on large regional projects, they can become international players. This is what happened to Reliance in the 2000s, Adani in the 2010s, Odenbrecht in Brazil in the 1990s-2000s, Polimeks in Turkiye in the 2000s, Wanda Group in China in the 2000s, etc. [0] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-19/japan-s-kishida-may-dissolve-his-faction-over-slush-fund-scandal https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-19/japan-s-k... [1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-indicts-opposition-leader-lee-over-property-graft-2023-03-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-indic... [2] - https://www.oecd.org/corruption/poland-s-fight-against-foreign-bribery-has-stalled-and-needs-urgent-action-says-the-oecd-working-group-on-bribery.htm https://www.oecd.org/corruption/poland-s-fight-against-forei...
- keiferski 2y agoAre there any forums like HN but for architecture, and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism, and instead focusing on the structures themselves? I find experimental architecture fascinating and would rather discuss the merits and flaws of the design itself. Neom reminds me of Łódź, a city in Poland that is built around a single 5km long street. It’s quite cool and the simple geometry is aesthetically appealing in a way I’ve yet to find elsewhere.
- lqet 2y ago> and not prone to devolving into sociopolitical criticism Some years ago I occasionally read a German architecture forum [0] that may be compared to HN (mainly professionals). For example, I remember the thread about the reconstruction of parts of the historic city center of Frankfurt [1] being really interesting, with a lot of excellent pictures and insider knowledge. The discussion was mostly centered on the aesthetic quality of the quarter and the use of historic construction methods (and how this use of traditional craftsmanship highly motivated the workers), while bigger media outlets often completely ignored this and focused on a strange political discussion that went along the lines of "reconstruction of something destroyed in WW2 = revisionism = supporting neofashists". [0] https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/ https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/ [1] https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/thread/10345-dom-r%C3%B6mer-areal-bau-thread/?pageNo=48 https://www.deutsches-architekturforum.de/thread/10345-dom-r...
- keiferski 2y agoThanks, my German isn’t amazing these days but I’ll run this through Google Translate and give it a read.
- Moldoteck 2y agothing is, such projects do affect sociopolitical edges of the society. The architecture can influence how people meet, how they protest, how they receive/buy the goods, how easy is it to suppress people that doesn't follow what central party says, etc... Physically, if the environment allows it, there are no reasons to not expand in disc/square form compared to a straight line. You get more economic activity per sq km, more viable public transit, more options to reach same destination and more options to create different business activities and all of this is due to higher density while maintaining high commute speed. It also makes maintenance and infrastructure cheaper(because you are not limited to a line)
- alangibson 2y agoThe likely reason they want to do NEOM, besides basic hubris, is to jump start a modern economy. All the insane projects bring in foreign engineers, manufacturers, etc. At first your local industry feeds materials and labor into them, but in time you work your way up the value chain and replace them. It's a time tested strategy. The main problem is SA is doing it in the most useless and bloody way possible.
- throwterrr 2y agoI wish they go head and build it. It's good for the world peace
- alangibson 2y agoI want to see someone seriously analyze what would happen if there was a power loss to the Line. Hundreds of thousands of people in a glass box in 50C weather with no AC sounds like a recipe for a record breaking mass casualty event.
- smashah 2y agoIt doesn't get that hot up there in the corner of the country. 0s in the winter up to 40 in the summer but good point nonetheless
- zelphirkalt 2y agoLets ship all the influencers there, who peddle the luxurious lifestyle narative and sign contracts to never say anything bad about these countries. "Influencer license" haha.
- avar 2y agoWith the caveat that all published "plans" for the thing were probably meant as a PR stunt the plan called for passively cooling it[1]. That part actually doesn't seem implausible, it's right on the Red Sea, which is quite hot on the surface, but cools down as you you go deeper into it[2]. So (and this is just my speculation) they could have a large undersea pipeline to a depth of say 1km, and use the heat the building itself to pull up and distribute that cold water through cooling ducts throughout the structure. They were also planning to desalinate seawater, so such a system would perform the double duty of pulling that seawater into the building. 1. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-i-admire-saudi-arabia-s-monstrous-new-city/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-i-admire-saudi-arabi... 2. https://os.copernicus.org/articles/16/149/2020/ https://os.copernicus.org/articles/16/149/2020/
- alangibson 2y agoHow are we pumping the water if the power is out? I guess they're would be diesel generators for that in reality. We need an engineer to calculate the flow needed because given how far away the far end is from the water that could end up behind one huge generator, not to mention the size of the pipes. It's worth mentioning that they don't seem to be burying any massive water pipes so this isn't likely to be done in reality.
- zelphirkalt 2y agoI got the impression, that it was stillbirth right from the start, and only kept alive for a prince's wishes.
- x2dhump 2y agoOh the bias, quiet unfortunate. So many comments against ME countries with so many false pretenses, you can easily tell many haven't set a foot on ME soil let alone actually lived there - holiday doesn't count. Having lived in ME for a long, long time I've had many liberals and atheists friends jump on the first ship to ME on a 'good' salary - slavery you say. I'm an Englishman, not a middle eastern.
- Ahmd72 2y agoThis is so true, give them a good salary and all these people would be willing to come here, just plain shallowness and you end up feeling pity for them. No real backbone
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Ahmd72 2y agoThe sheer arrogance of Westerners is one of the reasons I'm so biased against them and letting them enter any of the Muslim countries, like come on are we supposed to be taking lessons from people who gave us the Holocaust, the World wars, the Iraq war, the forceful displacement of Palestinians so they can create their own country. Are you people really that blind that you think whatever you think or values you have are the right ones? If that's true why do your governments still have a presence in defense contracts with these countries, if you're such upholders of these values why do you sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia, Israel etc which have proven that they cannot uphold human life. I have worked with the Westerners and someone who's born and raised here, I can tell you this much, there is good and bad in every nation but your bad is the worst every time and the arrogance you have has blinded you to accept your faults. We might have our faults but our people are working towards progress, it takes time but we don't go bashing Western people and how they are the worst examples of humanity, even knowing their history and countless examples of genocides conducted by them and then denying it. Shame on you people and those who think they are the best examples. Next time when you're offered a job in a Middle East country, don't accept it simple as that instead of coming here, bashing and then saying money talks. Greed is all you guys know.
- dappermanneke 2y ago[flagged]
- Ahmd72 2y agoI'm not a Saudi, and just saying this proves my point about your people, just assumptions and thinking you are right
- dappermanneke 2y agowho is my people
- dang 2y agoAttacking other users like this will get you banned here. No more of this, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines so often that I've banned the account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.
- seydor 2y agoPity that the constructors cannot extract more money for this vanity project. Maybe they should pivot, reduce the length of the line a bit, to the length of an average penis.
- moralestapia 2y agoThe problem with The Line was not that it was a line, it was the scale. It's so ridiculously large it is akin to Altman's request for 20% (?) of the world's GDP. Not only it wasn't happening, it literally can't happen. If you go to Google Earth (the app), it lets you see historical imagery from the site and for the past three or so years you can see continuous progress on digging out The Line; that alone is quite impressive on its own! But then again, digging it is only like 1% of it, and the easiest part. It's an impossible project.
- hooby 2y agoThere are two types of such big projects out there. There are those grandiose mega projects purely for the rich, purely for vanity and showing off wealth and meant attract outside attention... like "The Line" for example... ...but there also are more sensible projects, that are actually meant to help the local populace, improve conditions, and fight poverty... like "The Al Baydha Project" just for one example. It's totally possible to do something ambitious and impressive, and with historic significance without becoming completely detached from reality.
- sheepscreek 2y agoHas anyone considered the possibility of this money being rerouted to build chip manufacturing fabs for AI?
- cs02rm0 2y agoNo great surprise, they have form here. The Saudis announced six megaprojects in 2005. King Abdullah Economic City was the only one that went anywhere. I believe it was supposed to have 2 million people and reached about 7 thousand. They've kicked people out of the area, killed at least one person, trashed the area with initial construction efforts (I've driven past) and now the inevitable seems to be coming to pass already. They still have time but they need to do something to diversify from oil in the way Dubai has eventually. Building a new Dubai, with a different legal framework (only rumoured for Neom AFAIK), doesn't seem like the worst idea to me, but starting with an overly ambitious design probably isn't the way to get traction. The Middle East do love a pissing contest though so starting small isn't what they're into.
- jjfoooo4 2y agoIs Dubai really diversified away from oil? My naive impression is that it’s a major center for capital, with most of that capital coming from oil. Saudi diversification from oil is a fantasy. The culture is medieval from the POV of the rest of the world, and the hostile climate is only getting worse.
- cs02rm0 2y agoI think Dubai has from oil production, at least on the surface. Much of its economy is in retail, tourism, construction, transport, IT and financial services, etc. Yes the initial capital came from oil, the bigger issues for them now are perhaps how much comes from debt and how much comes from neighbouring states if their oil economies collapse. Saudi is at the mercy of it's leader and little else. The culture isn't generally medieval but the Al Saud certainly can be.
- anal_reactor 2y agoYes, Dubai diversified away from oil. I'm not sure if Saudi Arabia can reproduce the success. The entirety of Arabian peninsula is pretty much immune to cultural development, but Dubai got a pass because they were the first ones in that area to try building a normal healthy economy, meanwhile whatever Saudis do, they have to compete with Dubai which is already highly developed. My point being, why would people invest in Saudi Arabia if they can invest in Dubai.
- bangaroo 2y agoI'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]