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How to register a Kei truck in Pennsylvania

314 points by danwilkerson 3y ago

dinkblam 3y ago
there are similar mini-trucks e.g. in Italy with left-hand drive, which could simplify import/usage
- zokier 3y ago
  Any links or specific models?
  - ptrrrrrrppr 3y ago
    Piaggio porter / daihatsu hijet https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/piaggio-porter-2009r-1-3-16v-pfau-daihatsu-hijet-wywrotka-kipper-cena-16-900-zl-CID5-IDQkKnl.html https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/piaggio-porter-2009r-1-3-16v-pfa...
    - zokier 3y ago
      Interestingly the new generation grew into proper car size, complete with 1.5L engine. Something like Fiat Panda is closer to kei cars
- mook 3y ago
  Might be interesting to import from Taiwan instead, if you'd like to keep it Asian but prefer left-hand drive. For example, CMC Veryca (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMC_Veryca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMC_Veryca ) which was originally based off a Mitsubishi design. Interestingly Wikipedia seems to indicate that it even has an American importer already…
- reustle 3y ago
  But the reliability / parts availability of Japanese kei trucks is unmatched, unfortunately.
asdfigandfiono 3y ago
This goes to show just how superficial and backwards the American car industry is. You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a machine that is half the size of a Honda Civic, costs $10,000 new, gets 40 MPG, fits in any parking spot, is easy to load, and sells for around $10,000 new. But they look weak and girly. Vanitas vanitatum, omnia vanitas.
- waiseristy 3y ago
  > You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a machine that is half the size of a Honda Civic No you can’t
  - markdown 3y ago
    For what the average person uses their $50k pickup for, you most certainly can. Do you really imagine most pickup trucks in the US are hauling bricks on a dirt road up the side of mountains?
    - criddell 3y ago
      You said it yourself. People aren’t buying trucks for their function. They aren’t hauling bricks up mountain roads. So if it’s not about function, then it’s about something else and a Kei truck might not fill that role. It’s like people who spend thousands of dollars on a wristwatch. They don’t do that because they need to know what time it is.
    - tshaddox 3y ago
      No, I imagine the average person in the U.S. is using their truck to drive to and from their office job and taking their kids to and from school. And for that these tiny trucks obviously would not work.
      - markdown 3y ago
        Sounds like they should be using a sedan, station wagon, or compact SUV
mdtusz 3y ago
In the PNW these are absolutely everywhere and for good reason - they're exactly what most people need when they need a truck bed for hauling capacity. Plus, many are 4/AWD and have relatively high clearance so they're great adventure wagons for forest roads and getting out there. If a manufacturer made a truck similar (or slightly larger - not much room for people 6' and over in them) available for the market here, I'm sure they'd sell well. Seems like the biggest impediment is the safety laws here though and American insistence on having the biggest vehicle on the road.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  In Oregon, Kei cars are specifically illegal, they cannot be titled or registered. Other states are following a similar path so definitely make sure you can title it before you buy it.
  - greggsy 3y ago
    Is that for safety or market protection reasons?
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they aren't capable of going highway speeds.
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        They’re not really manufactured for Japanese highways either. Though Japanese highways go marginally slower, 60mph is pushing the poor kei to it’s limits. Lets just say I don’t enjoy sitting in a kei truck that’s attempting to do maximum speed.
        nine_k 3y ago
        The whole point of the kei form factor is different parking rules in dense, sometimes cramped Japanese cities. Due to the small footprint, they are allowed to park in more places. These are urban vehicles, not intended for highways, except in a pinch.
waiseristy 3y ago
The author mentions not wanting a Ranger or Tacoma, but I still think those are better options especially considering the drivers position… Even better is a 80’s/90’s full size 2 door pickup. Same size as a modern Tacoma/Ranger, but with payloads comparable to todays F250’s. Throw in working AC, airbags, and a wealth of cheap replacement parts and it’s a no-brainer
rootusrootus 3y ago
Definitely do your research if you live in another state, a growing number are refusing to register Kei cars at all. They know what they are, they aren’t baffled when you try, they just have rules against it now. No surprise, this is largely because many states’ DMVs source their regulations from the same org.
- jachee 3y ago
  Hmmm… I wonder where that org gets their funding.
jcastro 3y ago
I am finding an odd intersection of Kei trucks and geeks lately. My friend imports KEI trucks and Vans for the mid Atlantic region and always has inventory: https://ohkei-imports.com https://ohkei-imports.com As it turns out a bunch of people want these things and he's been importing and shipping all over the US.
- bradknowles 3y ago
  Not seeing much of anything on that site. Just a few references to social websites, and a phone number, and that's about it. So, where's the website that shows their actual inventory?
avidiax 3y ago
The difficulties inherent in this and the simplicity of the product itself make me wonder if there's some car equivalent of the "80% lower" of the weapons industry. Some kind of partially assembled new Kei truck that counts as "car parts" during import, and can then be assembled to create a "kit car". The kit car process is almost equally onerous, but at least you could get a new car on the other end.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  The difficulty is that this idea is not new and the regulations are written with that in mind.
  - koolba 3y ago
    Chicken tax trucks have entered the chat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      There's still a huge amount of regulation before those trucks get onto the road. Just trying to import a bag of parts and then reassembling in the US while claiming it's a kit car is the oldest trick in the book. It's an instant trip to the crusher every time.
    - walrus01 3y ago
      For a while Ford was importing Turkey manufactured small vans with seats in the back as passenger vehicles, immediately un-bolting and shredding the seats after they'd arrived at the US port, and selling them for their real intended purpose (small electrical/telecom/plumbing/other trades services vans).
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  If assembling your own car in the US was as easy as assembling a gun, we'd all be assembling cars on our sixteenth birthday. We have the right to own a gun, but in most of the US owning a car is a necessity. There is some route available in most states but it's incredibly cumbersome compared to something like making your own gun.
johnea 3y ago
When I tried to convince my buddy, a major Toyota truck fan, that really _this_ was the kind of truck evryone actually drives in Japan, he didn't want to believe me 8-) This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US, right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb into the cockpit of your rigg? I was also mildly entertained by "damn metric system" 8-) Yea... I have to say though, it's encouraging to see news of someone in the US coming to grips with the advantages of such a vehicle. I've always liked the 1/2 tilting 3 wheelers like the Honda Canopy: https://wonderfulengineering.com/honda-has-introduced-a-new-electric-cargo-scooter-and-it-comes-with-swappable-batteries/ https://wonderfulengineering.com/honda-has-introduced-a-new-...
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US, right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb into the cockpit of your rigg? You need to remember just how different the Japanese domestic market is when it comes to roads and vehicles. It's a tiny island nation with low speed limits (37 mph everywhere but divided highways, which are 62mph) and a lot of people. The US is 26 times larger with 1/10th the population density, and lots of high-speed highways.
  - johnea 3y ago
    [dead]
adam_gyroscope 3y ago
This reminds me of the saga Donut went thru to get a similar-sized truck from china: https://youtu.be/yRG0Wai4sR0 https://youtu.be/yRG0Wai4sR0
waiseristy 3y ago
These HN threads about trucks are amazing. It’s like watching the same movie over and over again * Kei trucks are the coolest. Big gubment is making it so we can’t register them due to protectionism! * Chicken tax chicken tax chicken tax * Big trucks cause more crashes because reasons! * Trucks are just lifestyle vehicles and nobody actually needs or uses them Over and over and over again
- warmwaffles 3y ago
  > nobody actually needs or uses them These make me chuckle. Those people have never done home improvement projects or just projects that require picking up 8ft sheets of plywood or 20 bags of mulch.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    I put 20 bags of mulch in an SUV last weekend, one that almost certainly could carry less than TFA's mini-truck-thing. What gives?
    - ghaff 3y ago
      As someone who lives in an old house on a fair bit of land, I sort of agree. A sedan wouldn't really work for me but an SUV with a roof rack is mostly just as good as a truck. (And I suppose I could always buy a trailer if it were really an issue.) The enclosed space is more generally useful than a truck bed.
    - rootusrootus 3y ago
      That's the expensive route if you do it too often. I can buy 2 yards of mulch scooped into the back of my truck for quite a bit less than the cost of 20 bags. And then there's things like gravel, which you really don't want to try and get in bags at all. I could probably get by with a smaller truck if I didn't tow a big trailer with it, but I'd still choose an actual open-bed truck over an SUV or minivan. Different strokes for different folks. It's going to depend a lot on what you routinely haul.
analog31 3y ago
I live near a Big Ten university in the Midwest, and they use these little trucks and vans for their maintenance crews. I imagine that for an institutional user with multiple of them, things like getting approval and spare parts is easier. One thing they probably help with is that a major university typically has horrific parking, but you can cram one of those little trucks into a place that a car won't fit into.
- duxup 3y ago
  Yeah as a campus maintenance vehicle these seem perfect.
- chromatin 3y ago
  If I am thinking of the same Big 10 university (orange and black mini trucks sometimes with IIRC green flashing lights), the interesting thing is that they are also driven on public streets connecting the different parts of campus. Of course? When you are the largest employer in the state (indeed, when you are the state), I suppose rules don't apply.
  - spike021 3y ago
    I'd imagine it depends on street rules. Here in California I used to work for San Jose State University when I was attending. I worked an oncampus job where I was expected to drive a golf cart to and from campus (the job office itself was located off campus, about a mile away, during my tenure there). So I drove up to 25mph with that electric cart max on the street, and then also drove it all over campus on sidewalks. Very usable and pretty roughly equivalent to a kei car.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  > you can cram one of those little trucks into a place that a car won't fit into In Japan there are usually a couple of "Kei-only" parking spots which are usually on some corner or side where a normal car wouldn't fit. A great use of space!
0xbadcafebee 3y ago
I love the esoteric-ness of owning a Kei truck, but they are in no way a replacement for a regular pickup truck. You really need a separate car for dailying, unless you never drive anywhere other than around your farm.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Yeah, I'm not sure how owning (and maintaining/registering/insuring/inspecting) another barely roadworthy vehicle competes with just having a trailer or renting a vehicle from Home Depot for a few hours now and then. For just moving stuff around the farm my neighbors have basically electric golf carts.
voisin 3y ago
If I found a middle eastern lamp and rubbed it and out popped a genie granting me three wishes, my first would be for there to be a modern electric Kei truck broadly available in North America. I am only slightly exaggerating.
- nrp 3y ago
  I have good news for you (assuming they survive long enough to ship): https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23757902/telo-truck-electric-pickup-annoucement https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23757902/telo-truck-elect...
  - Griever 3y ago
    A base price of $50k?! Not a chance.
    - mowse_winded 3y ago
      $11,250 straight from China. https://electricimportmotors.com/collections/trucks/products/pak-yak-pro-11-250-250-deposit https://electricimportmotors.com/collections/trucks/products...
      - giarc 3y ago
        I'm surprised they didn't do the fold flat side on the bed, would make it much more practical.
        mowse_winded 3y ago
        They also have a model with that for $13,500
chasemiller 3y ago
@danwilkerson, were you driving around the north hills ~1 hour ago? Just passed one of these and thought to myself, huh, that's pretty neat, only to come home to see this post.
- danwilkerson 3y ago
  Not me - I've seen a few others bopping around tahn. There are dozens of us!
EvanWinget 3y ago
There’s an SF-based startup working on an electric truck for urban audiences, called Telo. Might be interesting to those who find kei trucks appealing but want a proper fully street legal alternative. https://www.motortrend.com/news/telo-electric-mini-truck-first-look/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/telo-electric-mini-truck-fir...
- bsder 3y ago
  This was the first thing my brain jumped to: "It would be a hell of a lot easier to comply with NHTSA regulations if you didn't have a combustion engine." At that point, the issue is safety and crumple zones, which, again, should be vastly easier when you don't need an engine.
- doom2 3y ago
  What if part of the appeal of kei trucks is the price? I think the niche these vehicles are filling for some is that they're small _and_ cheap. Maybe a fully street legal version can't match kei truck pricing, but $50k also isn't it.
- ilyt 3y ago
  Think it has same problem of you-die-on-any-crash at least looking at where driver is. We just need someone to attach a small tipper truck bed to a Yaris...
avidphantasm 3y ago
This is cool. However, for $1000 (including add-on jack and registration, no insurance required) I just bought a 5x8 trailer that can hold more weight. I tow it with my RAV4 Hybrid that gets ~40MPG.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Was gonna say, not in US but here local hardware stores let you rent these for $20/half day maybe. Or free for short periods. So if you need it once a month and nowhere to park it, this can be good!
dangus 3y ago
I love everything about the idea except safety. You look like a frugal genius until a routine fender bender becomes fatal. Unfortunately this isn’t Japan and you’ll be driving on stroads designed for high speed driving with too many conflict points, sharing the road with drunk drivers in their RAM 1500 who barely needed to have a pulse to qualify for a license. Alternatives: - Vans, commercial or just an old minivan, like OP’s dad bought. They don’t have the popularity tax of trucks. I also think that the closed cabin of a van is better than a truck bed 90% of the time. - If you can handle the shorter bed, the Ford Maverick is priced very well with a high mpg hybrid powertrain, and you can use it as a comfortable daily family vehicle. - Big box home improvement store rentals. These often beat U-Haul prices and convenience in my experience. - Suck it up and buy a truck. While they cost a lot they’re also designed to be do-all family vehicles with good amenities, ride quality, and comfort. - Haul less stuff. Do you need to haul things? If your job is hauling stuff you can probably justify the truck investment and deduct it from your taxes. If not then maybe you don’t need to haul things. - Instacart? I’m pretty sure people with trucks will do Home Depot runs for you. In my opinion, judging by OP’s other blog post about finance and debt, he’s letting an excessively frugal mentality get in the way of getting the right tool for the job. OP quipped that old trucks still have insanely high values, and that goes both ways: if he buys a $30k truck and sells it in 10 years it’s probably still going to be worth $15k. Spending $15k in 10 years is the same cost as a bus pass.
taurusnoises 3y ago
We were in the process of getting one in NY, when we starting hearing the rumors of people registrations being revoked after the fact. We got hip to the, I think Montana, out-of-state, register it under and LLC trick, but ultimately decided against going that route. A lot of anti-Kei truck lobbying going round and it's affecting many of the surrounding states. It's lame.
kelnos 3y ago
I went back and forth on the idea of sharing such a negative take here, but... here goes. > You'll need to find a truck that is at least 25 years old. In the US, cars more youthful than that must comply with FMVSS (safety standards). > No air bags, [...] power steering, or crumple zones. I feel like this sort of thing is a fantastic illustration of the irresponsible level which most drivers (in the US at least; can't speak to other countries) feel that they are just so so good at driving that they believe all these safety features are fine to go without. Sure, this is presumably not your sole vehicle or daily driver. And sure, you're not going to be taking one of these on a 65mph highway. But a 30mph head-on collision with another vehicle will almost certainly kill you in one of these trucks. And I know if I was the driver of the other vehicle, and survived, even if I wasn't the one at fault, I'd probably need years of expensive therapy to get past it all. The thing that boggles my mind his how this 25-year-old grandfathering thing works. I think it's totally fair to allow old vehicles on the road that may not comply with today's standards, but did comply when they were originally made and titled (in the US). But there's no good reason we need to allow people to import old, unsafe vehicles like this.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  > But a 30mph head-on collision with another vehicle will almost certainly kill you in one of these trucks. A 30mph collision in the average American SUV will kill all the occupants too, because they have absolutely no safety features.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Except for airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, automatic braking, etc.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      Yeah, they don't really have crumple zones, that's kind of the problem. "Look at how strong this truck is, it survived an accident with barely a scratch!" just means it transferred all the energy to the wet squashy piles of mixed meat inside.
lastofthemojito 3y ago
> You'll need to find a truck that is at least 25 years old. In the US, cars more youthful than that must comply with FMVSS (safety standards). If you buy a more recent vintage, you won't be able to get it registered anywhere, so pay attention to that model year! Not quite. The US government cares about the date of manufacture, which doesn't always align with model years. Today you could legally import a vehicle manufactured in June of 1998, even if it is a 1999 model year.
habosa 3y ago
This truck seems to have most of the desirable Kei truck qualities (besides price) but it’s an EV with modern features. https://www.telotrucks.com/ https://www.telotrucks.com/
- Someone1234 3y ago
  > Base Price: $49,999 I think you've missed a major component of Kei Truck popularity. You can literally get 10x Kei Trucks for that cost.
- adregan 3y ago
  It appears the only overlapping feature of that truck is small size. A Kei truck is a work truck not an “urban adventure vehicle.” Ditch the crew cab and lower the height of the bed and you’re starting to enter the same territory.
- anfilt 3y ago
  First price and second it's an Extended cab so you loose truck bed space. Not a kei truck replacement just because those 2 things. Unless you don't mind the price and never haul longer things. Also most kei trucks the side of the truck bed folds down giving you more of a flat bed which for some things is super super handy.
oflannabhra 3y ago
There is a strong push at the state level to disallow the registration of kei trucks, being lead by the AAMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators) [0] As others have noted, these are fantastic utility vehicles, which have an important place in many rural areas. They can come with many important features like 4x4, diff-lock, dump beds, etc, all with a very reasonable 660cc serviceable engine. I personally suspect that this push comes from lobbying by side-by-side manufacturers, like John Deere and Polaris (which go new starting at $16k). [0] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/42057/rhode-island-is-trying-to-de-register-kei-cars-too-but-it-has-a-fight-on-its-hands https://www.thedrive.com/news/42057/rhode-island-is-trying-t...
- xattt 3y ago
  My province prohibited all right-hand drive vehicles, because there were so many kei trucks coming in. (1) https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/information/transportation-infrastructure-and-energy/right-hand-drive-vehicles https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/information/transportat...
  - wlonkly 3y ago
    One of the PEI exemptions is "manufactured 25 years ago or more", which sounds like the same situation as Pennsylvania, no? (I assume the "and" in the list on that page is the conversational meaning, not the legal meaning, since there aren't very many 25-year-old street sweeping mail trucks out there.) PEI feels like the perfect sized province for a kei truck!
    - xattt 3y ago
      I never noticed the "vintage" exemption!
- datavirtue 3y ago
  Hmmm....what if I just acted like I manufactured the truck and just get a new title?
quailfarmer 3y ago
I think the real use-case for these is for use on a large campus: University, Corporate, or otherwise. We have a half-dozen at work for getting between buildings, and the key advantage is that you can park almost anywhere for a short time without blocking traffic. We also have rideshare bikes, and sidewalks, but sometime you need to get a heavy box to the factory quickly, and these are perfect.
fnord77 3y ago
n.b - you can't do this in california due to emissions regulations without an expensive emissions retrofit
spike021 3y ago
There's a small coastal town near San Francisco where a bunch of the farmers/ranchers/other locals imported a fleet of Suzuki Carry's, IIRC. I was chatting with one owner and they told me most haven't bothered registering them since they're basically only used on private properties or the very small, low traffic roads into and out of town.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Is the local sheriff in this clan?
  - spike021 3y ago
    No idea!
bigfryo 3y ago
These trucks are very cheap, they cost less and they consume less gas, and the elites don't like it when we spend less, they want us to spend more
ehnto 3y ago
For the curious, it is pronounced "Kay" as in "okay" and not kii as in "key".
segmondy 3y ago
Funny that this was just posted. Some idiot was driving this on the highway on Thursday. These are cool if you live in a rural area, and will stay in small streets where you at best would need to not go more than 40mph. I actually won't mind one especially if I can put a snow plow on it.
ryzvonusef 3y ago
For people looking for an EV alternative, you can search on youtube for Chang Li trucks, they fit the bill for most people. This guy's youtube channel name implies he does this for a living, you can get more info from him, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufkBRrQoSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufkBRrQoSA here is another guy who modified his, and put a small solar panel, and now his charging requirements have been reduced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDpqd38HtQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDpqd38HtQ
- 93po 3y ago
  $9k for the little car and $11k for the pickup isn't bad
  - ryzvonusef 3y ago
    the real cost is less than half of that, the extra costs are because of shipping and govt duties and what not. If such products were made in the country, or if a streamlined process existed for import, the cost could be reduced significantly.

314 points by danwilkerson 3y ago

dinkblam 3y ago

there are similar mini-trucks e.g. in Italy with left-hand drive, which could simplify import/usage

zokier 3y ago
Any links or specific models?
- ptrrrrrrppr 3y ago
  Piaggio porter / daihatsu hijet https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/piaggio-porter-2009r-1-3-16v-pfau-daihatsu-hijet-wywrotka-kipper-cena-16-900-zl-CID5-IDQkKnl.html https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/piaggio-porter-2009r-1-3-16v-pfa...
  - zokier 3y ago
    Interestingly the new generation grew into proper car size, complete with 1.5L engine. Something like Fiat Panda is closer to kei cars
mook 3y ago
Might be interesting to import from Taiwan instead, if you'd like to keep it Asian but prefer left-hand drive. For example, CMC Veryca (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMC_Veryca https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMC_Veryca ) which was originally based off a Mitsubishi design. Interestingly Wikipedia seems to indicate that it even has an American importer already…
reustle 3y ago
But the reliability / parts availability of Japanese kei trucks is unmatched, unfortunately.

asdfigandfiono 3y ago

This goes to show just how superficial and backwards the American car industry is. You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a machine that is half the size of a Honda Civic, costs $10,000 new, gets 40 MPG, fits in any parking spot, is easy to load, and sells for around $10,000 new. But they look weak and girly. Vanitas vanitatum, omnia vanitas.

waiseristy 3y ago
> You can do the job of a $50,000 pickup using a machine that is half the size of a Honda Civic No you can’t
- markdown 3y ago
  For what the average person uses their $50k pickup for, you most certainly can. Do you really imagine most pickup trucks in the US are hauling bricks on a dirt road up the side of mountains?
  - criddell 3y ago
    You said it yourself. People aren’t buying trucks for their function. They aren’t hauling bricks up mountain roads. So if it’s not about function, then it’s about something else and a Kei truck might not fill that role. It’s like people who spend thousands of dollars on a wristwatch. They don’t do that because they need to know what time it is.
  - tshaddox 3y ago
    No, I imagine the average person in the U.S. is using their truck to drive to and from their office job and taking their kids to and from school. And for that these tiny trucks obviously would not work.
    - markdown 3y ago
      Sounds like they should be using a sedan, station wagon, or compact SUV

mdtusz 3y ago

In the PNW these are absolutely everywhere and for good reason - they're exactly what most people need when they need a truck bed for hauling capacity. Plus, many are 4/AWD and have relatively high clearance so they're great adventure wagons for forest roads and getting out there. If a manufacturer made a truck similar (or slightly larger - not much room for people 6' and over in them) available for the market here, I'm sure they'd sell well. Seems like the biggest impediment is the safety laws here though and American insistence on having the biggest vehicle on the road.

rootusrootus 3y ago
In Oregon, Kei cars are specifically illegal, they cannot be titled or registered. Other states are following a similar path so definitely make sure you can title it before you buy it.
- greggsy 3y ago
  Is that for safety or market protection reasons?
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    The only reason given is that they are not manufactured for US highways. Which may be a roundabout way of saying they aren't capable of going highway speeds.
    - Aeolun 3y ago
      They’re not really manufactured for Japanese highways either. Though Japanese highways go marginally slower, 60mph is pushing the poor kei to it’s limits. Lets just say I don’t enjoy sitting in a kei truck that’s attempting to do maximum speed.
      - nine_k 3y ago
        The whole point of the kei form factor is different parking rules in dense, sometimes cramped Japanese cities. Due to the small footprint, they are allowed to park in more places. These are urban vehicles, not intended for highways, except in a pinch.

waiseristy 3y ago

The author mentions not wanting a Ranger or Tacoma, but I still think those are better options especially considering the drivers position… Even better is a 80’s/90’s full size 2 door pickup. Same size as a modern Tacoma/Ranger, but with payloads comparable to todays F250’s. Throw in working AC, airbags, and a wealth of cheap replacement parts and it’s a no-brainer

rootusrootus 3y ago

Definitely do your research if you live in another state, a growing number are refusing to register Kei cars at all. They know what they are, they aren’t baffled when you try, they just have rules against it now. No surprise, this is largely because many states’ DMVs source their regulations from the same org.

jachee 3y ago
Hmmm… I wonder where that org gets their funding.

jcastro 3y ago

I am finding an odd intersection of Kei trucks and geeks lately. My friend imports KEI trucks and Vans for the mid Atlantic region and always has inventory: https://ohkei-imports.com https://ohkei-imports.com As it turns out a bunch of people want these things and he's been importing and shipping all over the US.

bradknowles 3y ago
Not seeing much of anything on that site. Just a few references to social websites, and a phone number, and that's about it. So, where's the website that shows their actual inventory?

avidiax 3y ago

The difficulties inherent in this and the simplicity of the product itself make me wonder if there's some car equivalent of the "80% lower" of the weapons industry. Some kind of partially assembled new Kei truck that counts as "car parts" during import, and can then be assembled to create a "kit car". The kit car process is almost equally onerous, but at least you could get a new car on the other end.

rootusrootus 3y ago
The difficulty is that this idea is not new and the regulations are written with that in mind.
- koolba 3y ago
  Chicken tax trucks have entered the chat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    There's still a huge amount of regulation before those trucks get onto the road. Just trying to import a bag of parts and then reassembling in the US while claiming it's a kit car is the oldest trick in the book. It's an instant trip to the crusher every time.
  - walrus01 3y ago
    For a while Ford was importing Turkey manufactured small vans with seats in the back as passenger vehicles, immediately un-bolting and shredding the seats after they'd arrived at the US port, and selling them for their real intended purpose (small electrical/telecom/plumbing/other trades services vans).
sidewndr46 3y ago
If assembling your own car in the US was as easy as assembling a gun, we'd all be assembling cars on our sixteenth birthday. We have the right to own a gun, but in most of the US owning a car is a necessity. There is some route available in most states but it's incredibly cumbersome compared to something like making your own gun.

johnea 3y ago

When I tried to convince my buddy, a major Toyota truck fan, that really _this_ was the kind of truck evryone actually drives in Japan, he didn't want to believe me 8-) This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US, right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb into the cockpit of your rigg? I was also mildly entertained by "damn metric system" 8-) Yea... I have to say though, it's encouraging to see news of someone in the US coming to grips with the advantages of such a vehicle. I've always liked the 1/2 tilting 3 wheelers like the Honda Canopy: https://wonderfulengineering.com/honda-has-introduced-a-new-electric-cargo-scooter-and-it-comes-with-swappable-batteries/ https://wonderfulengineering.com/honda-has-introduced-a-new-...

rootusrootus 3y ago
> This kind of thing is just obviously not allowed in the US, right? I mean, where's the luxury? What happens to all that social status that comes from needing a small ladder to climb into the cockpit of your rigg? You need to remember just how different the Japanese domestic market is when it comes to roads and vehicles. It's a tiny island nation with low speed limits (37 mph everywhere but divided highways, which are 62mph) and a lot of people. The US is 26 times larger with 1/10th the population density, and lots of high-speed highways.
- johnea 3y ago
  [dead]

adam_gyroscope 3y ago

This reminds me of the saga Donut went thru to get a similar-sized truck from china: https://youtu.be/yRG0Wai4sR0 https://youtu.be/yRG0Wai4sR0

waiseristy 3y ago

These HN threads about trucks are amazing. It’s like watching the same movie over and over again * Kei trucks are the coolest. Big gubment is making it so we can’t register them due to protectionism! * Chicken tax chicken tax chicken tax * Big trucks cause more crashes because reasons! * Trucks are just lifestyle vehicles and nobody actually needs or uses them Over and over and over again

warmwaffles 3y ago
> nobody actually needs or uses them These make me chuckle. Those people have never done home improvement projects or just projects that require picking up 8ft sheets of plywood or 20 bags of mulch.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  I put 20 bags of mulch in an SUV last weekend, one that almost certainly could carry less than TFA's mini-truck-thing. What gives?
  - ghaff 3y ago
    As someone who lives in an old house on a fair bit of land, I sort of agree. A sedan wouldn't really work for me but an SUV with a roof rack is mostly just as good as a truck. (And I suppose I could always buy a trailer if it were really an issue.) The enclosed space is more generally useful than a truck bed.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    That's the expensive route if you do it too often. I can buy 2 yards of mulch scooped into the back of my truck for quite a bit less than the cost of 20 bags. And then there's things like gravel, which you really don't want to try and get in bags at all. I could probably get by with a smaller truck if I didn't tow a big trailer with it, but I'd still choose an actual open-bed truck over an SUV or minivan. Different strokes for different folks. It's going to depend a lot on what you routinely haul.

analog31 3y ago

I live near a Big Ten university in the Midwest, and they use these little trucks and vans for their maintenance crews. I imagine that for an institutional user with multiple of them, things like getting approval and spare parts is easier. One thing they probably help with is that a major university typically has horrific parking, but you can cram one of those little trucks into a place that a car won't fit into.

duxup 3y ago
Yeah as a campus maintenance vehicle these seem perfect.
chromatin 3y ago
If I am thinking of the same Big 10 university (orange and black mini trucks sometimes with IIRC green flashing lights), the interesting thing is that they are also driven on public streets connecting the different parts of campus. Of course? When you are the largest employer in the state (indeed, when you are the state), I suppose rules don't apply.
- spike021 3y ago
  I'd imagine it depends on street rules. Here in California I used to work for San Jose State University when I was attending. I worked an oncampus job where I was expected to drive a golf cart to and from campus (the job office itself was located off campus, about a mile away, during my tenure there). So I drove up to 25mph with that electric cart max on the street, and then also drove it all over campus on sidewalks. Very usable and pretty roughly equivalent to a kei car.
kalleboo 3y ago
> you can cram one of those little trucks into a place that a car won't fit into In Japan there are usually a couple of "Kei-only" parking spots which are usually on some corner or side where a normal car wouldn't fit. A great use of space!

0xbadcafebee 3y ago

I love the esoteric-ness of owning a Kei truck, but they are in no way a replacement for a regular pickup truck. You really need a separate car for dailying, unless you never drive anywhere other than around your farm.

ghaff 3y ago
Yeah, I'm not sure how owning (and maintaining/registering/insuring/inspecting) another barely roadworthy vehicle competes with just having a trailer or renting a vehicle from Home Depot for a few hours now and then. For just moving stuff around the farm my neighbors have basically electric golf carts.

voisin 3y ago

If I found a middle eastern lamp and rubbed it and out popped a genie granting me three wishes, my first would be for there to be a modern electric Kei truck broadly available in North America. I am only slightly exaggerating.

nrp 3y ago
I have good news for you (assuming they survive long enough to ship): https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23757902/telo-truck-electric-pickup-annoucement https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23757902/telo-truck-elect...
- Griever 3y ago
  A base price of $50k?! Not a chance.
  - mowse_winded 3y ago
    $11,250 straight from China. https://electricimportmotors.com/collections/trucks/products/pak-yak-pro-11-250-250-deposit https://electricimportmotors.com/collections/trucks/products...
    - giarc 3y ago
      I'm surprised they didn't do the fold flat side on the bed, would make it much more practical.
      - mowse_winded 3y ago
        They also have a model with that for $13,500

chasemiller 3y ago

@danwilkerson, were you driving around the north hills ~1 hour ago? Just passed one of these and thought to myself, huh, that's pretty neat, only to come home to see this post.

danwilkerson 3y ago
Not me - I've seen a few others bopping around tahn. There are dozens of us!

EvanWinget 3y ago

There’s an SF-based startup working on an electric truck for urban audiences, called Telo. Might be interesting to those who find kei trucks appealing but want a proper fully street legal alternative. https://www.motortrend.com/news/telo-electric-mini-truck-first-look/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/telo-electric-mini-truck-fir...

bsder 3y ago
This was the first thing my brain jumped to: "It would be a hell of a lot easier to comply with NHTSA regulations if you didn't have a combustion engine." At that point, the issue is safety and crumple zones, which, again, should be vastly easier when you don't need an engine.
doom2 3y ago
What if part of the appeal of kei trucks is the price? I think the niche these vehicles are filling for some is that they're small _and_ cheap. Maybe a fully street legal version can't match kei truck pricing, but $50k also isn't it.
ilyt 3y ago
Think it has same problem of you-die-on-any-crash at least looking at where driver is. We just need someone to attach a small tipper truck bed to a Yaris...

avidphantasm 3y ago

This is cool. However, for $1000 (including add-on jack and registration, no insurance required) I just bought a 5x8 trailer that can hold more weight. I tow it with my RAV4 Hybrid that gets ~40MPG.

quickthrower2 3y ago
Was gonna say, not in US but here local hardware stores let you rent these for $20/half day maybe. Or free for short periods. So if you need it once a month and nowhere to park it, this can be good!

dangus 3y ago

I love everything about the idea except safety. You look like a frugal genius until a routine fender bender becomes fatal. Unfortunately this isn’t Japan and you’ll be driving on stroads designed for high speed driving with too many conflict points, sharing the road with drunk drivers in their RAM 1500 who barely needed to have a pulse to qualify for a license. Alternatives: - Vans, commercial or just an old minivan, like OP’s dad bought. They don’t have the popularity tax of trucks. I also think that the closed cabin of a van is better than a truck bed 90% of the time. - If you can handle the shorter bed, the Ford Maverick is priced very well with a high mpg hybrid powertrain, and you can use it as a comfortable daily family vehicle. - Big box home improvement store rentals. These often beat U-Haul prices and convenience in my experience. - Suck it up and buy a truck. While they cost a lot they’re also designed to be do-all family vehicles with good amenities, ride quality, and comfort. - Haul less stuff. Do you need to haul things? If your job is hauling stuff you can probably justify the truck investment and deduct it from your taxes. If not then maybe you don’t need to haul things. - Instacart? I’m pretty sure people with trucks will do Home Depot runs for you. In my opinion, judging by OP’s other blog post about finance and debt, he’s letting an excessively frugal mentality get in the way of getting the right tool for the job. OP quipped that old trucks still have insanely high values, and that goes both ways: if he buys a $30k truck and sells it in 10 years it’s probably still going to be worth $15k. Spending $15k in 10 years is the same cost as a bus pass.

taurusnoises 3y ago

We were in the process of getting one in NY, when we starting hearing the rumors of people registrations being revoked after the fact. We got hip to the, I think Montana, out-of-state, register it under and LLC trick, but ultimately decided against going that route. A lot of anti-Kei truck lobbying going round and it's affecting many of the surrounding states. It's lame.

kelnos 3y ago

I went back and forth on the idea of sharing such a negative take here, but... here goes. > You'll need to find a truck that is at least 25 years old. In the US, cars more youthful than that must comply with FMVSS (safety standards). > No air bags, [...] power steering, or crumple zones. I feel like this sort of thing is a fantastic illustration of the irresponsible level which most drivers (in the US at least; can't speak to other countries) feel that they are just so so good at driving that they believe all these safety features are fine to go without. Sure, this is presumably not your sole vehicle or daily driver. And sure, you're not going to be taking one of these on a 65mph highway. But a 30mph head-on collision with another vehicle will almost certainly kill you in one of these trucks. And I know if I was the driver of the other vehicle, and survived, even if I wasn't the one at fault, I'd probably need years of expensive therapy to get past it all. The thing that boggles my mind his how this 25-year-old grandfathering thing works. I think it's totally fair to allow old vehicles on the road that may not comply with today's standards, but did comply when they were originally made and titled (in the US). But there's no good reason we need to allow people to import old, unsafe vehicles like this.

Gordonjcp 3y ago
> But a 30mph head-on collision with another vehicle will almost certainly kill you in one of these trucks. A 30mph collision in the average American SUV will kill all the occupants too, because they have absolutely no safety features.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Except for airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, automatic braking, etc.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    Yeah, they don't really have crumple zones, that's kind of the problem. "Look at how strong this truck is, it survived an accident with barely a scratch!" just means it transferred all the energy to the wet squashy piles of mixed meat inside.

lastofthemojito 3y ago

> You'll need to find a truck that is at least 25 years old. In the US, cars more youthful than that must comply with FMVSS (safety standards). If you buy a more recent vintage, you won't be able to get it registered anywhere, so pay attention to that model year! Not quite. The US government cares about the date of manufacture, which doesn't always align with model years. Today you could legally import a vehicle manufactured in June of 1998, even if it is a 1999 model year.

habosa 3y ago

This truck seems to have most of the desirable Kei truck qualities (besides price) but it’s an EV with modern features. https://www.telotrucks.com/ https://www.telotrucks.com/

Someone1234 3y ago
> Base Price: $49,999 I think you've missed a major component of Kei Truck popularity. You can literally get 10x Kei Trucks for that cost.
adregan 3y ago
It appears the only overlapping feature of that truck is small size. A Kei truck is a work truck not an “urban adventure vehicle.” Ditch the crew cab and lower the height of the bed and you’re starting to enter the same territory.
anfilt 3y ago
First price and second it's an Extended cab so you loose truck bed space. Not a kei truck replacement just because those 2 things. Unless you don't mind the price and never haul longer things. Also most kei trucks the side of the truck bed folds down giving you more of a flat bed which for some things is super super handy.

oflannabhra 3y ago

There is a strong push at the state level to disallow the registration of kei trucks, being lead by the AAMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators) [0] As others have noted, these are fantastic utility vehicles, which have an important place in many rural areas. They can come with many important features like 4x4, diff-lock, dump beds, etc, all with a very reasonable 660cc serviceable engine. I personally suspect that this push comes from lobbying by side-by-side manufacturers, like John Deere and Polaris (which go new starting at $16k). [0] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/42057/rhode-island-is-trying-to-de-register-kei-cars-too-but-it-has-a-fight-on-its-hands https://www.thedrive.com/news/42057/rhode-island-is-trying-t...

xattt 3y ago
My province prohibited all right-hand drive vehicles, because there were so many kei trucks coming in. (1) https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/information/transportation-infrastructure-and-energy/right-hand-drive-vehicles https://www.princeedwardisland.ca/en/information/transportat...
- wlonkly 3y ago
  One of the PEI exemptions is "manufactured 25 years ago or more", which sounds like the same situation as Pennsylvania, no? (I assume the "and" in the list on that page is the conversational meaning, not the legal meaning, since there aren't very many 25-year-old street sweeping mail trucks out there.) PEI feels like the perfect sized province for a kei truck!
  - xattt 3y ago
    I never noticed the "vintage" exemption!
datavirtue 3y ago
Hmmm....what if I just acted like I manufactured the truck and just get a new title?

quailfarmer 3y ago

I think the real use-case for these is for use on a large campus: University, Corporate, or otherwise. We have a half-dozen at work for getting between buildings, and the key advantage is that you can park almost anywhere for a short time without blocking traffic. We also have rideshare bikes, and sidewalks, but sometime you need to get a heavy box to the factory quickly, and these are perfect.

fnord77 3y ago

n.b - you can't do this in california due to emissions regulations without an expensive emissions retrofit

spike021 3y ago

There's a small coastal town near San Francisco where a bunch of the farmers/ranchers/other locals imported a fleet of Suzuki Carry's, IIRC. I was chatting with one owner and they told me most haven't bothered registering them since they're basically only used on private properties or the very small, low traffic roads into and out of town.

quickthrower2 3y ago
Is the local sheriff in this clan?
- spike021 3y ago
  No idea!

bigfryo 3y ago

These trucks are very cheap, they cost less and they consume less gas, and the elites don't like it when we spend less, they want us to spend more

ehnto 3y ago

For the curious, it is pronounced "Kay" as in "okay" and not kii as in "key".

segmondy 3y ago

Funny that this was just posted. Some idiot was driving this on the highway on Thursday. These are cool if you live in a rural area, and will stay in small streets where you at best would need to not go more than 40mph. I actually won't mind one especially if I can put a snow plow on it.

ryzvonusef 3y ago

For people looking for an EV alternative, you can search on youtube for Chang Li trucks, they fit the bill for most people. This guy's youtube channel name implies he does this for a living, you can get more info from him, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufkBRrQoSA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufkBRrQoSA here is another guy who modified his, and put a small solar panel, and now his charging requirements have been reduced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDpqd38HtQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDpqd38HtQ

93po 3y ago
$9k for the little car and $11k for the pickup isn't bad
- ryzvonusef 3y ago
  the real cost is less than half of that, the extra costs are because of shipping and govt duties and what not. If such products were made in the country, or if a streamlined process existed for import, the cost could be reduced significantly.