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New cars will stop drivers from speeding under European laws

72 points by mfgs 4y ago

lvass 4y ago
So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road signs being used to decelerate and rob cars.
- cptaj 4y ago
  I live in a dictatorship where we have military road stops everywhere. Screw these features.
  - kspacewalk2 4y ago
    Sounds like having the theoretical ability to disobey those stops and drive super-fast through them will buy you very little. That's a kind of freedom you only get to exercise once in your life.
- ThatGeoGuy 4y ago
  I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why should passenger vehicles go 200+ km/h anyways? Why isn't a more reasonable limit imposed, for cars that spend 99% of their time in an urban centre? What actual road is engineered to even support that kind of speed?
  - worewood 4y ago
    The limits on ebikes are to prevent battery and motor overheating and catching fire.
    - NoPicklez 4y ago
      And the limits that could be imposed on cars are to prevent people from crashing and killing others and exceeding the speed limit. I don't see the difference, they're both valid reasons to reduce speed.
      - behringer 4y ago
        Because I tell machines what to do. I don't take orders from a computer.
        atoav 4y ago
        It is not an order. You tell it what to do and it responds with: "No". To the benefit of the rest of us who have to live with what you "tell" to machines.
        mrmanner 4y ago
        It’s not even that it says “no”, in most cases it will be you tell it what to do and it does that while flashing a light on the dashboard to indicate that it may be illegal
        imtringued 4y ago
        The orders come from humans and the machine is informing you that you are breaking the law.
    - imtringued 4y ago
      No they are purely regulatory. Most S pedelects are just pedelecs whose software limit was unlocked.
    - palmetieri2000 4y ago
      Absolutely incorrect at least in Australia, they are entirely to manage speed in pedestrian areas.
    - solarkraft 4y ago
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Let's do a joke where we go on the highway, and some people in the back pull out a painted sign with (30). Camera of the car behind you detects it and breaks. I can see such shenanigans happening.
    - solarkraft 4y ago
      You seem to think that car manufacturers are extremely stupid
      - koonsolo 4y ago
        No I think that AI roadsign recognition is extremely stupid.
        solarkraft 4y ago
        Thus you can assume it won't be relied on or its flaws will be adequately mitigated.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        One of the most important things I learned during my short 43 years of life: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc
- bathtub365 4y ago
  Where do you see that in the article? It doesn’t mention anything about braking.
  - theodorejb 4y ago
    > When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken.
    - mrmanner 4y ago
      The article wasn’t very clear around this, but it’s not that every car must have automatic deceleration, it’s one way out of four car makers may implement this: > The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from: > • Cascaded acoustic warning > • Cascaded vibrating warning > • Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal > • Speed control function https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...
- atoav 4y ago
  I imagine it would work by GPS (at least in Europe the speed limit of most roads can even be displayed in google maps). Also: your motor/brakes are likely already controlled by software. Whether a speed limit is bolted onto that software or not doesn't make a lot of difference.
- mrmanner 4y ago
  > So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? No, there’s no requirement to connect the ISA system to the brakes or throttle
stefan_ 4y ago
Every toy drone will refuse to fly into protected airspace. Theres no reason a car made in the past 10 years should be able to go 50 mph and beyond in a city.
- redox99 4y ago
  But a toy drone is a toy. It isn't really super impactful if you can't fly it in a protected airspace. A more meaningful comparison would be with an airplane (small Cessna, big airliner, whatever). Do you think these airplanes should automatically steer away from protected airspaces?
  - stby 4y ago
    Aviation has solved this problem a long time ago by controlling airspace and having laws that are actually enforced. Your plane may not prevent you from entering restricted airspace, but it may very well be the last thing you do as a pilot. Besides, modern planes have tons of automation that can take control of it, from simple things like preventing it from stalling to more complicated things like avoiding flights into terrain or automatically landing the aircraft at the nearest airfield.
wly_cdgr 4y ago
Gonna be a nice aftermarket for mods to disable this garbage bullshit
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  And older models without those features.
bjt2n3904 4y ago
"No one needs..." And this is how the frog boils slowly. You have to push back when others try to decide what you need.
exabrial 4y ago
They'll roll this back pretty quickly once it cuts into revenues
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  I predict that the politicians will, after much grumbling by the public, have the speed limits raised to reflect the speeds people actually want to drive. And then we'll have to endure a bunch of breathless hand wringing and concern feigning about how "it will be a bloodbath" from the usual suspects.
  - LanceH 4y ago
    You have too much faith. My predicted path is they can get the cars to report on themselves or each other and automate the fines.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      That would represent a transfer of power away from police and courts. Do the politicians really want to fight that fight for a few bucks when they can just tax us?
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      That's already happening with insurance. Some insurers are offering "safe driving discounts" if you install their app, which tracks your speed. If you exceed a speed limit, you lose the discount for that month. It's your problem to remember to disable it if someone else is driving.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Nope, because that's an EU law, the ones collecting speeding fines are national governments. And the saved lives, and resources from having less traffic police, will probably make up for the fines lost anyways.
judge2020 4y ago
> When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken. I sure hope they mean decelerate...
- bleachedsleet 4y ago
  Acceleration is just a change in speed as per the laws of motion [1] [1] https://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/cms/lib/OH01915844/Centricity/domain/6268/week%202-%20april%2013/physical%20science/april%2015/Phy%20Sci%20April%2015%20Reading%20Essentials_Acceleration.pdf https://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/cms/lib/OH01915844/Cen...
- kurupt213 4y ago
  I think Accelerating is technically correct. The vector can be positive or negative
- x3n0ph3n3 4y ago
  Negative acceleration is still acceleration.
  - seattle_spring 4y ago
    Refer to the brake as "the accelerator" and see how that goes for you.
    - __d 4y ago
      Refer to it as the throttle, and avoid the confusion.
    - dibujante 4y ago
      Gonna refer to everyone going -10KPH over the speed limit as "speeding"
    - alex_young 4y ago
      How far it gets you depends very much on the observers frame of reference.
Raed667 4y ago
There is absolutely no reason any road car should be able to (consistently) drive faster than ~150km/h
- mvdwoord 4y ago
  There absolutely are.
- ABeeSea 4y ago
  But have you considered how much fun breaking the speed limit is?
  - userbinator 4y ago
    I know you intended it to be a bit of a throwaway comment, but I think you hit on something very fundamental and human which explains why everyone is so outraged by things like this: taking risks is part of life, the thrill is the enjoyment. That's what true freedom feels like... and also responsibility, since if you mess up, you also face the consequences. Things like this take away not only freedom but also normalise and encourage a condition of continuous subservience. Those in power want everyone to live a sterile, "healthy" life under their control, one with neither risk nor personal freedom.
    - Raed667 4y ago
      How about my freedom to go about my day without having to worry that someone decided they wanted to take a "risk" that moment? Commute is supposed to be efficient, boring and predictable. Not a thrill ride, there are sport tracks for that.
      - userbinator 4y ago
        That's not called freedom --- it's cowardice, the state of being afraid to live. Maybe making you too scared to do anything without government permission is the end game of stuff like this.
- 4y ago
kurupt213 4y ago
There are valid reasons for exceeding the speed limit
- jtonz 4y ago
  A _vast_ majority of exceeding the speed limit is not done for valid reasons.
  - joebob42 4y ago
    I'd argue that it's almost never correct to drive the speed limit. In the US at least they are almost universally slower than the natural speed of the road by 5-10 mph and everyone speeds a bit all the time.
    - stefan_ 4y ago
      Things must be crashing and burning over there in California with all the driverless cars. Or you know, cars will just go the speed limit, 10 years from now and you won't even remember your brain simulated a shitty PID controller to hit some speed number subject to your irrational whims.
      - akomtu 4y ago
        They won't. The rich won't let you dictate how fast they can go, so ferraris will be exempt. The upper classes will 'illegaly' turn off the limiter on their teslas 250d, but no sane sheriff will dare to enforce the law here. Middle class will be loosely complaint, the same way they observe the speed limit laws today. Only the lower classes will have no choice but to drive the 'chopper cars'.
    - recursive 4y ago
      But if new cars were incapable of exceeding the limit, that wouldn't be true for long.
      - joebob42 4y ago
tyingq 4y ago
How well does this work in areas where almost every car is speeding? Especially since there would be a mix of older cars without the tech sharing the road.
- robbrown451 4y ago
  Over time this should result in speed limits adjusting to how fast people actually drive, rather than it always being assumed that people drive faster by 10 mph or whatever.
- lvass 4y ago
  You either drive dangerously slow (people too eager to overtake you is a security risk) or find a way to disable it.
bgdkbtv 4y ago
The governments will surely miss out on a lot of revenue if cars start preventing people from speeding.
- hourago 4y ago
  But lives will be saved, that is worth the lost in revenue.
  - PradeetPatel 4y ago
    Do you have any statistics to back that claim up? E.g. loss of workforce / strain put on the healthcare system vs revenue from traffic policing.
    - atoav 4y ago
      Not the OP but this is pretty much a no-brainer: over your life, do you pay more in taxes or in speeding tickets? Now think about it that way: that car you bought, in which way did you buying that car also produce revenue for the state? Right, even more taxes. The state might also have already invested into your life, e.g. in the form of public education. And we are not speaking about health system, damages to streets and infrastructure, firefighters having to clear the road, firefighters having to go to therapy to deal with the trauma of the sight you gave them etc. It makes zero sense for the state to pick a few speeding tickets over what is a chain of bad (potentially life-long) cost.
      - PradeetPatel 4y ago
        That is a very good observation and a well-explained statement. Thank you for providing an additional perspective from a nation level macro lens as opposed to an individualistic level.
belfalas 4y ago
"Just because something can be done with a computer does not mean it should be done." - Richard Hamming
gnicholas 4y ago
Looks like the driver can disable the system, if the manufacturer allows. I'm sure popular "driver's cars" will offer this feature. > While the law does recommend drivers be able to switch off ISA “when a driver experiences false warnings or inappropriate feedback as a result of inclement weather conditions, temporarily conflicting road markings in construction zones, or misleading, defective or missing road signs,” it doesn’t make it a requirement.
CivBase 4y ago
I hate this. If you want the car to drive itself, push for that. These flakey, half-way measures are the worst of both worlds.
noduerme 4y ago
I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  Good thing you're not carrying one into the car either
  - noduerme 4y ago
    when I want to. Point is, when I don't want to I don't have my car auto-braked because someone decided I was driving to a protest.
- bjt2n3904 4y ago
  That's their excuse. It's very "think of the children".
  - atoav 4y ago
    Contrary to other "think of the children"-scenarios this one has an actual death number tacked to it. And you might not be surprised, that children dying in traffic accidents does happen.extremely frequent. But forget the children, this also infringes on rights of regular people like me. Your right to drive around 2 tons of steel and plastics don't outweigh my right to not get killed by any stretch of the imagination.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      For the last time, my comment is not about the privilege of people to drive (which you seem to want to abolish?) it's about the right to move around without being tracked. Also, it is about your rights to privacy if you should want to exercise them.
bayareabadboy 4y ago
I wonder sometimes if we live in extraordinarily tribal times
thematrixturtle 4y ago
Back in the day, all Singaporean taxis used to be fitted (by law) with warning systems that went "ding, ding, ding" continuously if the car ever exceeded Singapore's top speed limit of 90 km/h. But even nanny state Singapore gave up on this, because it was just too annoying and pointless. The one thing speed limiters would be good for is preventing extreme speeding, like this drunk dickhead who drove at 148 km/h on a small street with a limit of 50 km/h and killed 5 people including himself: https://mothership.sg/2022/06/tanjong-pagar-crash-coroners-inquiry/ https://mothership.sg/2022/06/tanjong-pagar-crash-coroners-i... Then again, the BMW in question had also been extensively and mostly illegally modded, so any sort of limiting system would almost certainly have been disabled in the process.
fatcat500 4y ago
At this rate, Europe will become 2nd world by the end of the century. Instead of focusing on innovation and competition in the global market, Europeans are busy legislating their freedoms away.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  I'm not aware of a "freedom to speed" under either the US Constitution or the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights. Speeding falls under the "expedient" category of crimes: it's been illegal this entire time, but selectively enforced for practical reasons. Nobody wants to live in a society where a sufficient number of police are chartered to universally enforce speeding laws, so this seems like a very reasonable solution.
  - windows2020 4y ago
    Please see the 10th amendment. "Freedom to speed" is reserved for the states to decide. However, like the Federal Government has done in the past (the since repealed National Maximum Speed Law), it may attempt to persuade states by withholding some, but not too much funding (South Dakota v. Dole).
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      No, the 10th Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right to speed. The closest thing would really be the 9th Amendment, but even that doesn't imply a positive right to speed -- the strongest argument would be that nothing forbids a right to speed, which in turn must be justified as an actual right. Which, in fact, it is not. (What you're describing has nothing to do with speeding under the law, which doesn't care whether different states have different maximum speeds. Speeding isn't a Federal crime, and when we're talking about it the sole thing we're talking about is the individual State laws that describe speeding in the US.)
- nicbou 4y ago
  I feel the opposite about America. We have many consumer and social protections that Americans don't. They seem to value freedom over the well-being of the average citizen. Perhaps we'll never have as many nobel prizes per capita, or as many millionaires, but I quite enjoy things being regulated in favour of the average citizen.
joebob42 4y ago
I've been worried about something like this ever since maps first started showing the speed limit on the road I was on. It feels like an inevitability. For whatever reason this feels like an especially significant step on the path towards increasingly excessive control over individuals and it makes me very sad that it's finally happening.
- post_break 4y ago
  Newer cars like my accord use a camera that looks for speed limit signs. What's funny is it's not perfect and sometimes will read a random sign and tell me the speed limit is like 100mph on a 35mph road.
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    That can't possibly work everywhere. Here in my state in Australia we have speed signs for the off-ramps where they are clearly visible from the freeway, so you might be in a 100 km/h zone but see a 60 km/h sign off the side that could easily be mistaken for a speed sign for the freeway (it's actually not that great design, sometimes they have a sign saying 'ramp speed' under it but not always)
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Yeah, those systems have fun issues around elections here in Finland. Often there is advertisements around roads and our system works with each candidate having their own number. These are usually in nice circles with black text in white background for best visibility...
legostormtroopr 4y ago
This is not a bad idea - but speed limits have not changed to reflect changing cars. Speed limits are stuck at 100km in Australia and have been for decades - despite cars introducing anti-lock breaking, predictive breaking, anti-rollover technology, lane assist and so on. Cars are now much much safer, and yet speed limits outside of cities have not changed to reflect this. If the government wants to introduce speed limiters on all cars, they also need to re-examine speed limits - especially outside of urban areas.
- CodeBeater 4y ago
  Doesn't Australia have "follow the traffic" rules?
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    No, they will set up cameras and fine anybody going more than a few km/h or so over the speed limit (theoretically they can fine you for going 1 km/h over the limit but there is some kind of tolerance, people usually assume 10% but the police and road agencies don't disclose what it is (apparently it's not always the same for every road or for the conditions at the time either). I believe it's generally less than 10%).
- woodruffw 4y ago
  You mentioned it, but to clarify: cars are much safer for their occupants. As a pedestrian or cyclist, I'm pink mist whether the speeding car has lane assist or not.
  - redox99 4y ago
    He's talking about highway speeds. There shouldn't be pedestrians or cyclists there.
- NoPicklez 4y ago
  I'd say the majority of the country doesn't have predictive braking, lane assist, lane departure detection, adaptive cruise control.
dzink 4y ago
The same European countries have one lane roads where horse carriages and slow old oil burning cars and trucks cause long lines of other vehicles that desperately try to pass each other and the culprit of the delay without hitting incoming cars and trucks from the reverse lane next to them, in the dark with little markings. This game of chicken leads to big speeds, and lots and lots of death. Now imagine if you are speed restricted and the car you are trying to pass wants to drive the speed limit after they see they are getting passed. You are target for any incoming vehicle because you have to spend additional time in the dangerous opposing lane. The market for removing those devices will be lucrative.
walterbell 4y ago
Compare with opt-out audio headphone notifications on iPhone, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211903 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211903 > Receive notifications that your volume should be turned down when you've reached the recommended 7-day audio exposure limit. > Due to regulations and safety standards, headphone notifications can't be turned off in certain countries or regions.
cromulent 4y ago
It won’t stop them from speeding. “The ISA system is required to work with the driver and not to restrict his/her possibility to act in any moment during driving. The driver is always in control and can easily override the ISA system.” https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Most speeding is unintentional. This will help the vast majority. The rest can he handled through enforcement of existing laws.
  - cypress66 4y ago
    > Most speeding is unintentional Source?
    - imtringued 4y ago
      Streets are designed for a certain max speed to be the safest speed. People drive the designed speed, not the sign speed. Governments place mobile speeding radars for revenue rather than making the streets safe.
  - cromulent 4y ago
    Yeah, of course this is a nudge system to help reduce speeding behaviourally. I was addressing the title of the post: "New cars will stop drivers from speeding...". They won't stop them - they will inform them through various means that they are speeding.
windows2020 4y ago
If everyone's speeding, perhaps the limit isn't correct. Using 'AI' to forcibly counter societal norms is concerning.
doodlebugging 4y ago
After their introduction to the US markets I can see these vehicles in Texas having a near zero market share. There are far too many long stretches of open highway with very light traffic that can easily handle speeds several tens of miles per hour over the posted speed limits. Locals and long-haulers routinely speed down these stretches, slowing down for the towns and then speeding up again once you are through. This feature - allowing the car to manage vehicle speed, acting as a backseat driver will not only be annoying but will be a nonstarter for many people out here. I personally will never knowingly buy a vehicle that could override any of my driving decisions in real time or that would nag me with automated messages. I am a trained practitioner of defensive driving techniques since one former employer required all drivers to take classes. I can use those skills to understand real-time highway conditions better than any pre-programmed algorithm ever will. I don't need an algorithm to babysit me or to back seat drive for me.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Of the 520 drivers, just five considered that they were worse than average – fewer than 1%. The rest – even the truly abysmal drivers who were constantly making errors – considered themselves to be at least as good as the next person, and many thought they were a lot better. It was, essentially, a mass delusion that rendered them completely blind to their own failings [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200923-why-arrogance-is-dangerously-contagious https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200923-why-arrogance-...
  - doodlebugging 4y ago
    Thanks for the reminder that most people overestimate their own skill levels and tend to think they are better than others than they are in reality. If you disagree with my post because you disagreed with my position that an algorithm will not be able to out-perform a live driver who has been trained to observe real-time conditions so as to minimize the possibility that they will become part of someone else's malfunction on the highway then let's discuss that. If you believe that these vehicles will be embraced by buyers in Texas or other places with long stretches of open highway where it is safe for drivers to drive faster than the posted speed limits then let's discuss that. If you just think I'm some kind of coal-rolling redneck, F-650 with truck nuts driving dumbass because I mentioned Texas then you are wrong on everything except possibly the dumbass part and you should just admit your bias and work hard to avoid being so judgemental.
userbinator 4y ago
Not at all a subtle clue that the EU is rapidly speeding towards (pun very much intended) being a totalitarian socialist police state. On the other hand, one wonders how much support stuff like this will have in the US --- because at least it seems that we have the infamous Franklin quote and at least like to talk about our freedom a lot more...
- Ekaros 4y ago
  It is not unique to EU. Just remember the Covid restrictions in USA in past years. Clearly fascist totalitarian policies. We are all heading to bad place and no one is fighting against it.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    You're right, it's not just the EU but they seem to be leading (along with the Orwellian UK). The pandemic certainly raised the bar for tolerating totalitarianism. Also, 9/11 before that. There's definitely opposition, although whether it's sufficient is the question. One hopes the rest of the population will realise and join them before it's too late.
varajelle 4y ago
Most comments in this thread comments on the fact that Europeans are loosing their freedom do speed, and that they will not be able to drive fast. But that's just the title of an Australian website. In the article, and in the actual law, this is just about a *warning* to the driver, that can optionally be coupled with the cruise control, and that *can be overridden* by the driver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_speed_assistance#Implementation_in_the_EU_and_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_speed_assistance#I... Basically all cars manufacturers today already have that technology. What this law means is that the car maker can no longer make this system an overpriced option when selling the car.
- userbinator 4y ago
  First it's optional. Then they make it increasingly harder to disable. Then they make it mandatory. Surely everyone who has experienced abusive changes in software can see that pattern from a mile away? They aren't going to roast the frog, but instead boil it very slowly...
  - varajelle 4y ago
    Well, this is like with all slippery slope argument. First they set the speed limit to 70, then to 50, then to 20, then you can't drive at all. So better not let them set any limit? What this is is just adapting an already extremely regulated field to the new technologies. Road safety and regulations has massively improved the safety of cars in the last few decades, therefore saving many lives. And yet, car driving is still one of the most dangerous method of transport, causing countless of fatalities every year.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      Especially with the earth's population being what it is, and if you want to believe in climate change too, maybe those fatalities are still too low... Speed limits have always had a discretionary factor in them. A freedom of human judgment, if you will. And indeed not being able to drive at all seems like it would fit in with the whole green globalist agenda anyway, so the slope is definitely slippery. Edit: downvoting won't hide the truth, bootlickers.
la64710 4y ago
If only now we could agree on guns having mechanisms to deactivate in the hands of deranged individuals.
_8j50 4y ago
A better idea would be to mandate black-boxes so if you do get pulled over there is no contest on whether or not you were speeding or made a full stop at the stop sign. You can use that as evidence and it can be used against you as well. This way, when I am driving on 85mph limited road under ideal conditions and little traffic I can pass other cars doing 100mph or more to get past the current pack and stay under 90 till the next pack. The right lane is for driving speed limit, left lanes are for driving past the limit while passing until you merge back on the right lane(s). In Texas at least the speed limit is "whatever is safe" (you have to obey posted signs but you also have an obligation to drive faster or slower as safety demands it, as can be proven in court)
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > A better idea would be to mandate black-boxes… https://rislone.com/blog/general/does-my-car-have-a-black-box/ https://rislone.com/blog/general/does-my-car-have-a-black-bo... "If your car is a model from this century, there's a fair chance you do indeed, have a black box fitted somewhere within it. Black boxes have been in some of the major American car brands, like Buick, Chevy and Cadillac, since all the way back to 1994. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been using them to collect car accident data since early in the 2000s. If your car is from 2013 or later, you are almost guaranteed to have a black box. Less than 5 percent of new cars came without one in 2013, and they are mandated in all new vehicles since 2014."
quijoteuniv 4y ago
Better explained here: https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...
judge2020 4y ago
The regulation in English: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... It's going to be like the auto start/stop button on new vehicles: you can turn it off, but it'll always be on whenever the car is turned on again. > it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch; To add, the same system will be required for AEB: > 4. Advanced emergency braking systems and emergency lane-keeping systems shall meet the following requirements in particular: > the systems shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch;
Proven 4y ago
__d 4y ago
I'd really like my car to automatically limit itself to a bit under the legal limit. As it is, I find maintaining 40km/hr difficult, so I tend to engage the cruise control. But that's pretty painful. I'd much rather it just did it for me. It already shows the speed limit on the dash display, so it'd be pretty simple to hook that up to the cruise control. And sure, it'd be good to have an override for when something's screwy (ie. roadwork, or the navigation maps are out of date, or whatever). But 99% of the time this would make my life better.
- nicbou 4y ago
  I'd love to have that as an option. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere. I usually get speeding fines because I'm not paying attention to the speed limit or my own speed. It's a bit like cruise control. I like not having to constantly monitor my speed.
albertizzley 4y ago
The worse thing is that car going according to a speed limit like 40-50km/h still can seriously injure or worse a pedestrian especially a child or elderly. Limiting the speed is one thing but adjusting road infrastructure in the cities to make it safer for pedestrians is a second thing-how many crosswalks I've seen that are barely visible- I don't even count. Surely everyone seen a local newspaper article at some point of pedestrian being killed but the driver was sober and wasn't speeding.
koonsolo 4y ago
Add it to the list of things I need to disable when I start my car: - disable start-stop system (that shit is dangerous!) - put it to sport mode - and now: disable speeding alarm It starts to feel like I'm starting a fighterjet with all those buttons before takeoff. Good thing I still have my motorcycle :)
cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
Their ideas of laws are hilarious as they are Kafkaesque. Next, they will require a meter on your neck to charge you for air. If I can't control a vehicle how I must outside of what's "permissible" because computers or artificial governors decide "what's best" for me when life and safety are at risk, then there's no way in hell I'm going to buy such a deathtrap. I can drive 140+ mph no problem in the right vehicle setup and maintained correctly under ideal, controlled conditions, but I absolutely don't trust ~95% of any else to. I know enough computing power with LIDAR, optical cameras, thermal cameras, and MMWRADAR combined with specialized ML-CV can potentially (distant future) safely drive a vehicle faster than any human ever could, but we're nowhere near reliable, high-speed FSD.
TimesOldRoman 4y ago
Remember when the US went to 55 mph limit due to oil shortage?

72 points by mfgs 4y ago

So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? I really dislike this, and living in the third world I can already imagine fake road signs being used to decelerate and rob cars.

cptaj 4y ago
I live in a dictatorship where we have military road stops everywhere. Screw these features.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Sounds like having the theoretical ability to disobey those stops and drive super-fast through them will buy you very little. That's a kind of freedom you only get to exercise once in your life.
ThatGeoGuy 4y ago
I'm not sure why this is the consistent take. We have e-scooters and bikes with limiters on speed, why would this be materially different than cars? It's not like it needs to slam on the brake, it just needs to disengage acceleration past a certain speed. This isn't new grounds for tech and it is _currently_ deployed on our streets. I'm not sure what the panic over this is, if anything this is a good thing - why should passenger vehicles go 200+ km/h anyways? Why isn't a more reasonable limit imposed, for cars that spend 99% of their time in an urban centre? What actual road is engineered to even support that kind of speed?
- worewood 4y ago
  The limits on ebikes are to prevent battery and motor overheating and catching fire.
  - NoPicklez 4y ago
    And the limits that could be imposed on cars are to prevent people from crashing and killing others and exceeding the speed limit. I don't see the difference, they're both valid reasons to reduce speed.
    - behringer 4y ago
      Because I tell machines what to do. I don't take orders from a computer.
      - atoav 4y ago
        It is not an order. You tell it what to do and it responds with: "No". To the benefit of the rest of us who have to live with what you "tell" to machines.
        mrmanner 4y ago
        It’s not even that it says “no”, in most cases it will be you tell it what to do and it does that while flashing a light on the dashboard to indicate that it may be illegal
      - imtringued 4y ago
        The orders come from humans and the machine is informing you that you are breaking the law.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    No they are purely regulatory. Most S pedelects are just pedelecs whose software limit was unlocked.
  - palmetieri2000 4y ago
    Absolutely incorrect at least in Australia, they are entirely to manage speed in pedestrian areas.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Let's do a joke where we go on the highway, and some people in the back pull out a painted sign with (30). Camera of the car behind you detects it and breaks. I can see such shenanigans happening.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    You seem to think that car manufacturers are extremely stupid
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      No I think that AI roadsign recognition is extremely stupid.
      - solarkraft 4y ago
        Thus you can assume it won't be relied on or its flaws will be adequately mitigated.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        One of the most important things I learned during my short 43 years of life: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg4trPZFUwc
bathtub365 4y ago
Where do you see that in the article? It doesn’t mention anything about braking.
- theodorejb 4y ago
  > When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken.
  - mrmanner 4y ago
    The article wasn’t very clear around this, but it’s not that every car must have automatic deceleration, it’s one way out of four car makers may implement this: > The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from: > • Cascaded acoustic warning > • Cascaded vibrating warning > • Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal > • Speed control function https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...
atoav 4y ago
I imagine it would work by GPS (at least in Europe the speed limit of most roads can even be displayed in google maps). Also: your motor/brakes are likely already controlled by software. Whether a speed limit is bolted onto that software or not doesn't make a lot of difference.
mrmanner 4y ago
> So all cars will be susceptible to "phantom braking" due to a bug or worse? No, there’s no requirement to connect the ISA system to the brakes or throttle

stefan_ 4y ago

Every toy drone will refuse to fly into protected airspace. Theres no reason a car made in the past 10 years should be able to go 50 mph and beyond in a city.

redox99 4y ago
But a toy drone is a toy. It isn't really super impactful if you can't fly it in a protected airspace. A more meaningful comparison would be with an airplane (small Cessna, big airliner, whatever). Do you think these airplanes should automatically steer away from protected airspaces?
- stby 4y ago
  Aviation has solved this problem a long time ago by controlling airspace and having laws that are actually enforced. Your plane may not prevent you from entering restricted airspace, but it may very well be the last thing you do as a pilot. Besides, modern planes have tons of automation that can take control of it, from simple things like preventing it from stalling to more complicated things like avoiding flights into terrain or automatically landing the aircraft at the nearest airfield.

wly_cdgr 4y ago

Gonna be a nice aftermarket for mods to disable this garbage bullshit

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
And older models without those features.

bjt2n3904 4y ago

"No one needs..." And this is how the frog boils slowly. You have to push back when others try to decide what you need.

exabrial 4y ago

They'll roll this back pretty quickly once it cuts into revenues

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
I predict that the politicians will, after much grumbling by the public, have the speed limits raised to reflect the speeds people actually want to drive. And then we'll have to endure a bunch of breathless hand wringing and concern feigning about how "it will be a bloodbath" from the usual suspects.
- LanceH 4y ago
  You have too much faith. My predicted path is they can get the cars to report on themselves or each other and automate the fines.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    That would represent a transfer of power away from police and courts. Do the politicians really want to fight that fight for a few bucks when they can just tax us?
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    That's already happening with insurance. Some insurers are offering "safe driving discounts" if you install their app, which tracks your speed. If you exceed a speed limit, you lose the discount for that month. It's your problem to remember to disable it if someone else is driving.
sofixa 4y ago
Nope, because that's an EU law, the ones collecting speeding fines are national governments. And the saved lives, and resources from having less traffic police, will probably make up for the fines lost anyways.

judge2020 4y ago

> When ISA detects the car is over the limit, it may induce visual and audible warnings, as well as haptic feedback through the steering wheel or throttle pedal, or it may begin accelerating the vehicle if no action is taken. I sure hope they mean decelerate...

bleachedsleet 4y ago
Acceleration is just a change in speed as per the laws of motion [1] [1] https://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/cms/lib/OH01915844/Centricity/domain/6268/week%202-%20april%2013/physical%20science/april%2015/Phy%20Sci%20April%2015%20Reading%20Essentials_Acceleration.pdf https://www.clevelandmetroschools.org/cms/lib/OH01915844/Cen...
kurupt213 4y ago
I think Accelerating is technically correct. The vector can be positive or negative
x3n0ph3n3 4y ago
Negative acceleration is still acceleration.
- seattle_spring 4y ago
  Refer to the brake as "the accelerator" and see how that goes for you.
  - __d 4y ago
    Refer to it as the throttle, and avoid the confusion.
  - dibujante 4y ago
    Gonna refer to everyone going -10KPH over the speed limit as "speeding"
  - alex_young 4y ago
    How far it gets you depends very much on the observers frame of reference.

Raed667 4y ago

There is absolutely no reason any road car should be able to (consistently) drive faster than ~150km/h

mvdwoord 4y ago
There absolutely are.
ABeeSea 4y ago
But have you considered how much fun breaking the speed limit is?
- userbinator 4y ago
  I know you intended it to be a bit of a throwaway comment, but I think you hit on something very fundamental and human which explains why everyone is so outraged by things like this: taking risks is part of life, the thrill is the enjoyment. That's what true freedom feels like... and also responsibility, since if you mess up, you also face the consequences. Things like this take away not only freedom but also normalise and encourage a condition of continuous subservience. Those in power want everyone to live a sterile, "healthy" life under their control, one with neither risk nor personal freedom.
  - Raed667 4y ago
    How about my freedom to go about my day without having to worry that someone decided they wanted to take a "risk" that moment? Commute is supposed to be efficient, boring and predictable. Not a thrill ride, there are sport tracks for that.
    - userbinator 4y ago
      That's not called freedom --- it's cowardice, the state of being afraid to live. Maybe making you too scared to do anything without government permission is the end game of stuff like this.
4y ago

kurupt213 4y ago

There are valid reasons for exceeding the speed limit

jtonz 4y ago
A _vast_ majority of exceeding the speed limit is not done for valid reasons.
- joebob42 4y ago
  I'd argue that it's almost never correct to drive the speed limit. In the US at least they are almost universally slower than the natural speed of the road by 5-10 mph and everyone speeds a bit all the time.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    Things must be crashing and burning over there in California with all the driverless cars. Or you know, cars will just go the speed limit, 10 years from now and you won't even remember your brain simulated a shitty PID controller to hit some speed number subject to your irrational whims.
    - akomtu 4y ago
      They won't. The rich won't let you dictate how fast they can go, so ferraris will be exempt. The upper classes will 'illegaly' turn off the limiter on their teslas 250d, but no sane sheriff will dare to enforce the law here. Middle class will be loosely complaint, the same way they observe the speed limit laws today. Only the lower classes will have no choice but to drive the 'chopper cars'.
  - recursive 4y ago
    But if new cars were incapable of exceeding the limit, that wouldn't be true for long.
    - joebob42 4y ago

tyingq 4y ago

How well does this work in areas where almost every car is speeding? Especially since there would be a mix of older cars without the tech sharing the road.

robbrown451 4y ago
Over time this should result in speed limits adjusting to how fast people actually drive, rather than it always being assumed that people drive faster by 10 mph or whatever.
lvass 4y ago
You either drive dangerously slow (people too eager to overtake you is a security risk) or find a way to disable it.

bgdkbtv 4y ago

The governments will surely miss out on a lot of revenue if cars start preventing people from speeding.

hourago 4y ago
But lives will be saved, that is worth the lost in revenue.
- PradeetPatel 4y ago
  Do you have any statistics to back that claim up? E.g. loss of workforce / strain put on the healthcare system vs revenue from traffic policing.
  - atoav 4y ago
    Not the OP but this is pretty much a no-brainer: over your life, do you pay more in taxes or in speeding tickets? Now think about it that way: that car you bought, in which way did you buying that car also produce revenue for the state? Right, even more taxes. The state might also have already invested into your life, e.g. in the form of public education. And we are not speaking about health system, damages to streets and infrastructure, firefighters having to clear the road, firefighters having to go to therapy to deal with the trauma of the sight you gave them etc. It makes zero sense for the state to pick a few speeding tickets over what is a chain of bad (potentially life-long) cost.
    - PradeetPatel 4y ago
      That is a very good observation and a well-explained statement. Thank you for providing an additional perspective from a nation level macro lens as opposed to an individualistic level.

belfalas 4y ago

"Just because something can be done with a computer does not mean it should be done." - Richard Hamming

gnicholas 4y ago

Looks like the driver can disable the system, if the manufacturer allows. I'm sure popular "driver's cars" will offer this feature. > While the law does recommend drivers be able to switch off ISA “when a driver experiences false warnings or inappropriate feedback as a result of inclement weather conditions, temporarily conflicting road markings in construction zones, or misleading, defective or missing road signs,” it doesn’t make it a requirement.

CivBase 4y ago

I hate this. If you want the car to drive itself, push for that. These flakey, half-way measures are the worst of both worlds.

noduerme 4y ago

I object to driving any car with a built-in GPS or an internet connection, on basic privacy grounds. It amazes me how many advocacy groups and organizations [edit: and bicycle fans right here on HN!] are willing to completely demolish essential rights like privacy and freedom of movement, in the name of preventing speeding accidents.

throwntoday 4y ago
Good thing you're not carrying one into the car either
- noduerme 4y ago
  when I want to. Point is, when I don't want to I don't have my car auto-braked because someone decided I was driving to a protest.
bjt2n3904 4y ago
That's their excuse. It's very "think of the children".
- atoav 4y ago
  Contrary to other "think of the children"-scenarios this one has an actual death number tacked to it. And you might not be surprised, that children dying in traffic accidents does happen.extremely frequent. But forget the children, this also infringes on rights of regular people like me. Your right to drive around 2 tons of steel and plastics don't outweigh my right to not get killed by any stretch of the imagination.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    For the last time, my comment is not about the privilege of people to drive (which you seem to want to abolish?) it's about the right to move around without being tracked. Also, it is about your rights to privacy if you should want to exercise them.

bayareabadboy 4y ago

I wonder sometimes if we live in extraordinarily tribal times

thematrixturtle 4y ago

Back in the day, all Singaporean taxis used to be fitted (by law) with warning systems that went "ding, ding, ding" continuously if the car ever exceeded Singapore's top speed limit of 90 km/h. But even nanny state Singapore gave up on this, because it was just too annoying and pointless. The one thing speed limiters would be good for is preventing extreme speeding, like this drunk dickhead who drove at 148 km/h on a small street with a limit of 50 km/h and killed 5 people including himself: https://mothership.sg/2022/06/tanjong-pagar-crash-coroners-inquiry/ https://mothership.sg/2022/06/tanjong-pagar-crash-coroners-i... Then again, the BMW in question had also been extensively and mostly illegally modded, so any sort of limiting system would almost certainly have been disabled in the process.

fatcat500 4y ago

At this rate, Europe will become 2nd world by the end of the century. Instead of focusing on innovation and competition in the global market, Europeans are busy legislating their freedoms away.

woodruffw 4y ago
I'm not aware of a "freedom to speed" under either the US Constitution or the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights. Speeding falls under the "expedient" category of crimes: it's been illegal this entire time, but selectively enforced for practical reasons. Nobody wants to live in a society where a sufficient number of police are chartered to universally enforce speeding laws, so this seems like a very reasonable solution.
- windows2020 4y ago
  Please see the 10th amendment. "Freedom to speed" is reserved for the states to decide. However, like the Federal Government has done in the past (the since repealed National Maximum Speed Law), it may attempt to persuade states by withholding some, but not too much funding (South Dakota v. Dole).
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    No, the 10th Amendment doesn't guarantee you the right to speed. The closest thing would really be the 9th Amendment, but even that doesn't imply a positive right to speed -- the strongest argument would be that nothing forbids a right to speed, which in turn must be justified as an actual right. Which, in fact, it is not. (What you're describing has nothing to do with speeding under the law, which doesn't care whether different states have different maximum speeds. Speeding isn't a Federal crime, and when we're talking about it the sole thing we're talking about is the individual State laws that describe speeding in the US.)
nicbou 4y ago
I feel the opposite about America. We have many consumer and social protections that Americans don't. They seem to value freedom over the well-being of the average citizen. Perhaps we'll never have as many nobel prizes per capita, or as many millionaires, but I quite enjoy things being regulated in favour of the average citizen.

joebob42 4y ago

I've been worried about something like this ever since maps first started showing the speed limit on the road I was on. It feels like an inevitability. For whatever reason this feels like an especially significant step on the path towards increasingly excessive control over individuals and it makes me very sad that it's finally happening.

post_break 4y ago
Newer cars like my accord use a camera that looks for speed limit signs. What's funny is it's not perfect and sometimes will read a random sign and tell me the speed limit is like 100mph on a 35mph road.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  That can't possibly work everywhere. Here in my state in Australia we have speed signs for the off-ramps where they are clearly visible from the freeway, so you might be in a 100 km/h zone but see a 60 km/h sign off the side that could easily be mistaken for a speed sign for the freeway (it's actually not that great design, sometimes they have a sign saying 'ramp speed' under it but not always)
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Yeah, those systems have fun issues around elections here in Finland. Often there is advertisements around roads and our system works with each candidate having their own number. These are usually in nice circles with black text in white background for best visibility...

legostormtroopr 4y ago

This is not a bad idea - but speed limits have not changed to reflect changing cars. Speed limits are stuck at 100km in Australia and have been for decades - despite cars introducing anti-lock breaking, predictive breaking, anti-rollover technology, lane assist and so on. Cars are now much much safer, and yet speed limits outside of cities have not changed to reflect this. If the government wants to introduce speed limiters on all cars, they also need to re-examine speed limits - especially outside of urban areas.

CodeBeater 4y ago
Doesn't Australia have "follow the traffic" rules?
- stephen_g 4y ago
  No, they will set up cameras and fine anybody going more than a few km/h or so over the speed limit (theoretically they can fine you for going 1 km/h over the limit but there is some kind of tolerance, people usually assume 10% but the police and road agencies don't disclose what it is (apparently it's not always the same for every road or for the conditions at the time either). I believe it's generally less than 10%).
woodruffw 4y ago
You mentioned it, but to clarify: cars are much safer for their occupants. As a pedestrian or cyclist, I'm pink mist whether the speeding car has lane assist or not.
- redox99 4y ago
  He's talking about highway speeds. There shouldn't be pedestrians or cyclists there.
NoPicklez 4y ago
I'd say the majority of the country doesn't have predictive braking, lane assist, lane departure detection, adaptive cruise control.

dzink 4y ago

The same European countries have one lane roads where horse carriages and slow old oil burning cars and trucks cause long lines of other vehicles that desperately try to pass each other and the culprit of the delay without hitting incoming cars and trucks from the reverse lane next to them, in the dark with little markings. This game of chicken leads to big speeds, and lots and lots of death. Now imagine if you are speed restricted and the car you are trying to pass wants to drive the speed limit after they see they are getting passed. You are target for any incoming vehicle because you have to spend additional time in the dangerous opposing lane. The market for removing those devices will be lucrative.

walterbell 4y ago

Compare with opt-out audio headphone notifications on iPhone, https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211903 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211903 > Receive notifications that your volume should be turned down when you've reached the recommended 7-day audio exposure limit. > Due to regulations and safety standards, headphone notifications can't be turned off in certain countries or regions.

cromulent 4y ago

It won’t stop them from speeding. “The ISA system is required to work with the driver and not to restrict his/her possibility to act in any moment during driving. The driver is always in control and can easily override the ISA system.” https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...

Gigachad 4y ago
Most speeding is unintentional. This will help the vast majority. The rest can he handled through enforcement of existing laws.
- cypress66 4y ago
  > Most speeding is unintentional Source?
  - imtringued 4y ago
    Streets are designed for a certain max speed to be the safest speed. People drive the designed speed, not the sign speed. Governments place mobile speeding radars for revenue rather than making the streets safe.
- cromulent 4y ago
  Yeah, of course this is a nudge system to help reduce speeding behaviourally. I was addressing the title of the post: "New cars will stop drivers from speeding...". They won't stop them - they will inform them through various means that they are speeding.

windows2020 4y ago

If everyone's speeding, perhaps the limit isn't correct. Using 'AI' to forcibly counter societal norms is concerning.

doodlebugging 4y ago

After their introduction to the US markets I can see these vehicles in Texas having a near zero market share. There are far too many long stretches of open highway with very light traffic that can easily handle speeds several tens of miles per hour over the posted speed limits. Locals and long-haulers routinely speed down these stretches, slowing down for the towns and then speeding up again once you are through. This feature - allowing the car to manage vehicle speed, acting as a backseat driver will not only be annoying but will be a nonstarter for many people out here. I personally will never knowingly buy a vehicle that could override any of my driving decisions in real time or that would nag me with automated messages. I am a trained practitioner of defensive driving techniques since one former employer required all drivers to take classes. I can use those skills to understand real-time highway conditions better than any pre-programmed algorithm ever will. I don't need an algorithm to babysit me or to back seat drive for me.

threeseed 4y ago
Of the 520 drivers, just five considered that they were worse than average – fewer than 1%. The rest – even the truly abysmal drivers who were constantly making errors – considered themselves to be at least as good as the next person, and many thought they were a lot better. It was, essentially, a mass delusion that rendered them completely blind to their own failings [1]. [1] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200923-why-arrogance-is-dangerously-contagious https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200923-why-arrogance-...
- doodlebugging 4y ago
  Thanks for the reminder that most people overestimate their own skill levels and tend to think they are better than others than they are in reality. If you disagree with my post because you disagreed with my position that an algorithm will not be able to out-perform a live driver who has been trained to observe real-time conditions so as to minimize the possibility that they will become part of someone else's malfunction on the highway then let's discuss that. If you believe that these vehicles will be embraced by buyers in Texas or other places with long stretches of open highway where it is safe for drivers to drive faster than the posted speed limits then let's discuss that. If you just think I'm some kind of coal-rolling redneck, F-650 with truck nuts driving dumbass because I mentioned Texas then you are wrong on everything except possibly the dumbass part and you should just admit your bias and work hard to avoid being so judgemental.

userbinator 4y ago

Not at all a subtle clue that the EU is rapidly speeding towards (pun very much intended) being a totalitarian socialist police state. On the other hand, one wonders how much support stuff like this will have in the US --- because at least it seems that we have the infamous Franklin quote and at least like to talk about our freedom a lot more...

Ekaros 4y ago
It is not unique to EU. Just remember the Covid restrictions in USA in past years. Clearly fascist totalitarian policies. We are all heading to bad place and no one is fighting against it.
- userbinator 4y ago
  You're right, it's not just the EU but they seem to be leading (along with the Orwellian UK). The pandemic certainly raised the bar for tolerating totalitarianism. Also, 9/11 before that. There's definitely opposition, although whether it's sufficient is the question. One hopes the rest of the population will realise and join them before it's too late.

varajelle 4y ago

Most comments in this thread comments on the fact that Europeans are loosing their freedom do speed, and that they will not be able to drive fast. But that's just the title of an Australian website. In the article, and in the actual law, this is just about a *warning* to the driver, that can optionally be coupled with the cruise control, and that *can be overridden* by the driver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_speed_assistance#Implementation_in_the_EU_and_UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_speed_assistance#I... Basically all cars manufacturers today already have that technology. What this law means is that the car maker can no longer make this system an overpriced option when selling the car.

userbinator 4y ago
First it's optional. Then they make it increasingly harder to disable. Then they make it mandatory. Surely everyone who has experienced abusive changes in software can see that pattern from a mile away? They aren't going to roast the frog, but instead boil it very slowly...
- varajelle 4y ago
  Well, this is like with all slippery slope argument. First they set the speed limit to 70, then to 50, then to 20, then you can't drive at all. So better not let them set any limit? What this is is just adapting an already extremely regulated field to the new technologies. Road safety and regulations has massively improved the safety of cars in the last few decades, therefore saving many lives. And yet, car driving is still one of the most dangerous method of transport, causing countless of fatalities every year.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    Especially with the earth's population being what it is, and if you want to believe in climate change too, maybe those fatalities are still too low... Speed limits have always had a discretionary factor in them. A freedom of human judgment, if you will. And indeed not being able to drive at all seems like it would fit in with the whole green globalist agenda anyway, so the slope is definitely slippery. Edit: downvoting won't hide the truth, bootlickers.

la64710 4y ago

If only now we could agree on guns having mechanisms to deactivate in the hands of deranged individuals.

_8j50 4y ago

A better idea would be to mandate black-boxes so if you do get pulled over there is no contest on whether or not you were speeding or made a full stop at the stop sign. You can use that as evidence and it can be used against you as well. This way, when I am driving on 85mph limited road under ideal conditions and little traffic I can pass other cars doing 100mph or more to get past the current pack and stay under 90 till the next pack. The right lane is for driving speed limit, left lanes are for driving past the limit while passing until you merge back on the right lane(s). In Texas at least the speed limit is "whatever is safe" (you have to obey posted signs but you also have an obligation to drive faster or slower as safety demands it, as can be proven in court)

CharlesW 4y ago
> A better idea would be to mandate black-boxes… https://rislone.com/blog/general/does-my-car-have-a-black-box/ https://rislone.com/blog/general/does-my-car-have-a-black-bo... "If your car is a model from this century, there's a fair chance you do indeed, have a black box fitted somewhere within it. Black boxes have been in some of the major American car brands, like Buick, Chevy and Cadillac, since all the way back to 1994. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has been using them to collect car accident data since early in the 2000s. If your car is from 2013 or later, you are almost guaranteed to have a black box. Less than 5 percent of new cars came without one in 2013, and they are mandated in all new vehicles since 2014."

quijoteuniv 4y ago

Better explained here: https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge...

judge2020 4y ago

The regulation in English: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32019R2144&from=EN https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... It's going to be like the auto start/stop button on new vehicles: you can turn it off, but it'll always be on whenever the car is turned on again. > it shall be possible to switch off the system; information about the speed limit may still be provided, and intelligent speed assistance shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch; To add, the same system will be required for AEB: > 4. Advanced emergency braking systems and emergency lane-keeping systems shall meet the following requirements in particular: > the systems shall be in normal operation mode upon each activation of the vehicle master control switch;

Proven 4y ago

__d 4y ago

I'd really like my car to automatically limit itself to a bit under the legal limit. As it is, I find maintaining 40km/hr difficult, so I tend to engage the cruise control. But that's pretty painful. I'd much rather it just did it for me. It already shows the speed limit on the dash display, so it'd be pretty simple to hook that up to the cruise control. And sure, it'd be good to have an override for when something's screwy (ie. roadwork, or the navigation maps are out of date, or whatever). But 99% of the time this would make my life better.

nicbou 4y ago
I'd love to have that as an option. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere. I usually get speeding fines because I'm not paying attention to the speed limit or my own speed. It's a bit like cruise control. I like not having to constantly monitor my speed.

albertizzley 4y ago

The worse thing is that car going according to a speed limit like 40-50km/h still can seriously injure or worse a pedestrian especially a child or elderly. Limiting the speed is one thing but adjusting road infrastructure in the cities to make it safer for pedestrians is a second thing-how many crosswalks I've seen that are barely visible- I don't even count. Surely everyone seen a local newspaper article at some point of pedestrian being killed but the driver was sober and wasn't speeding.

koonsolo 4y ago

Add it to the list of things I need to disable when I start my car: - disable start-stop system (that shit is dangerous!) - put it to sport mode - and now: disable speeding alarm It starts to feel like I'm starting a fighterjet with all those buttons before takeoff. Good thing I still have my motorcycle :)

cvccvroomvroom 4y ago

Their ideas of laws are hilarious as they are Kafkaesque. Next, they will require a meter on your neck to charge you for air. If I can't control a vehicle how I must outside of what's "permissible" because computers or artificial governors decide "what's best" for me when life and safety are at risk, then there's no way in hell I'm going to buy such a deathtrap. I can drive 140+ mph no problem in the right vehicle setup and maintained correctly under ideal, controlled conditions, but I absolutely don't trust ~95% of any else to. I know enough computing power with LIDAR, optical cameras, thermal cameras, and MMWRADAR combined with specialized ML-CV can potentially (distant future) safely drive a vehicle faster than any human ever could, but we're nowhere near reliable, high-speed FSD.

TimesOldRoman 4y ago

Remember when the US went to 55 mph limit due to oil shortage?