14 ms·

Inside Putin's Circle

214 points by mayiplease 5y ago

mayiplease 5y ago
https://archive.ph/RXgCG https://archive.ph/RXgCG
zoomablemind 5y ago
Strangely, one figure is notably omitted from the "exposé" is Dmitry Medvedev. Who is none other than the former president, and still acting member of the current "politbureau"... Who knows, maybe he is the "one senior official" mentioned as being the author's source on some of the topics. Protect your sources!
ordu 5y ago
> These men are known in Russia as the “siloviki” — “men of force”, or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, “hard men”. Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and security guards). It refers to police, military or any other organization with a dress code that requires a gun.
- twelve40 5y ago
  yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a gun, are also included.
  - qiskit 5y ago
    We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns, they don't wear guns.
    - adamc 5y ago
      Right, in English "wear" generally means something you can "put on" and you can't "put a gun on" either. Although you can put on a holster. ;-)
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        Although, in this case specifically, "wear a gun" is pretty common place and doesn't sound out if place at all. I think this may come down to regional dialect differences, but it doesn't make this pedant look good (and I generally love pedants.)
    - SkinTaco 5y ago
      What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain from your comment? Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine question that thought to myself when I read your comment. I can't think of a better way to phrase it.
      - qiskit 5y ago
        Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native english speaker and was helping him out.
        js2 5y ago
        I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”. People absolutely say that. It’s not even pedantically incorrect: 2 (b) to carry on the person; wear a sword https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=bks https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=bks
        qiskit 5y ago
        > I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”. Maybe it's regional. I've never heard it said that way before. "Are you wearing a gun"? "Concealed wearing laws"? Doesn't sound right, but I guess people do use it. Don't cops ask "Do you have a gun on you" or "Are you carrying?". I think most of us would find it weird if a cop asked us "Are you wearing a gun?".
  - ordu 5y ago
    Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at least have a license to wear gun. Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This knowledge tells me that "силовые структуры"/"structures of force" are organizations that use force to solve problems. And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong with that last statement, and moreover language is changing, so the generally accepted meaning of the word can differ from what I had learnt in my childhood.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      > FSB is an intelligence agency, They are also a military branch and have military ranks, although they don't wear uniforms. The FSB acts like a combination of FBI, a border patrol and secret police. They are also the group allowed to carry out an assassination on foreign soil (according to Russian law), although they are not allowed to authorize such a mission on their own.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - Koshkin 5y ago
      > FSB is an intelligence agency It is a security agency, a.k.a. the “secret police.” (It does, of course, spy on the populace.)
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        Basically the Stasi of Russia, no?
        outside1234 5y ago
        They are, in fact, what the Stasi were modeled after.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        5y ago
- throwawaymanbot 5y ago
  The Irish term “hard man” is more of a meaning about a persons spirit/ attitude to certain things. It does mean someone you don’t want to mess with or in fact have any sort of dealings with. (unless you can equivalently “nullify” their attitude and there’s only one thing usually that can nullify a “hard man”… and this the cycle begins.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone?
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    > Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone? As does "Department of Homeland Security". That was the first federal agency named that way, and prior to that people would have thought that sort of naming to be associated with the Stassi or a totalitarian regime. I suppose it is commonplace now.
    - murderfs 5y ago
      "Federal Bureau of Investigation" or "Secret Service" aren't particularly friendly sounding names either...
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Friendly sounding to whom?
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Unconscious bias at work. Russians aren't mostly mobsters wearing Adidas track suits, despite what you see on TV and in movies.
  - skrtskrt 5y ago
    or mercenaries/"private security"
  - xxs 5y ago
    >is it supposed to have that undertone? nope. the 2nd word means "structures" and it implies part of the state.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun No, that sounds like any armed forces, police force, the secret service, etc.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  "other organization with a dress code that requires a gun" ⇒ mafia.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or anything.
    - benatkin 5y ago
      A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the same way the unlicense is a license. I think that undercover or plainclothes in most cases has enough rules that it constitutes a dress code, even if you think a dress code needs to have rules about more than one article of clothing to be considered a dress code.
      - watwut 5y ago
        Afaik, mafia does not require gun and holster on you typically. Plus, in situation where you have to have one, it is closer to requirement to have a tool with you then dress code. I don't understand why the need to twist mafia into dress code group. Russian mafia is know entity, so is albanian one. Ukraine mafia exists too. It is just that, dress code is not what would be associated with them.
        benatkin 5y ago
        Point taken. I retract my statements. I think it is possible to have a dress code for under cover policing. I guess the only thing left is that I think that a dress code is not the same as a uniform, and that an undercover operation could have a dress code similar to a nightclub, where there are rules but no specific products that have to be worn.
- huhtenberg 5y ago
  "siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). That's it.
  - trhway 5y ago
    Good news - as result of Ukraine war failure these lowlifes are starting to eat each other - the director of foreign intelligence of FSB has just got arrested for "embezzling money intended for sabotage and gathering of intelligence in Ukraine and for providing false information about political situation in Ukraine" :) From https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-ukraine-right-by-the-nato-border https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-... : "Meanwhile, panic appears to be setting in within Putin’s inner circle, with the Russian leader allegedly firing eight generals and putting the head of his FSB spy arm Sergei Beseda and his deputy under house arrest" Russian: https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/11/zhurnalist-andrey-soldatov-rukovoditelya-vneshney-razvedki-fsb-otpravili-pod-domashniy-arest-ofitsialno-eto-ne-podtverzhdeno https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/11/zhurnalist-andrey-soldatov... All that while 3 generals have already been killed in Ukraine in addition to uncounted number of officers with no major military success. That is bound to cause "friction" between various arms of the "siloviki". There is also a large fight brewing between FSB and Chechens (they have been in "cold war" state) as large convoy of Chechen forces in Ukraine was completely destroyed by Ukrainians based on information that seems to had been leaked by FSB.
    - tartoran 5y ago
      Putin surrounded himself with yes men. These people are afraid to displease Putin and end up taking shortcuts left and right to give him what he wants. Only fear is keeping this system from crumbling, they’re all afraid of eachother. “ Soldierov told the British Times that it could well be that the FSB had realistic knowledge of the situation in Ukraine - the only question was what was passed on to Putin. "The problem lies in the fact that it is often risky for those responsible to tell Putin things that he doesn't want to hear," Soldierov said.” [0] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-put-secret-service-chiefs-under-house-arrest-out-of-anger.H1g4iyyK-q.html https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-pu...
- zoomablemind 5y ago
  > ...The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force"... "siloviki" => members/heads of the law enforcement and security agencies, read "enforcers". But "hard men" passes the forceful connotation well enough.
edhowzerblack 5y ago
[flagged]
- andrewflnr 5y ago
  Which is why someone helpfully posted an archive link.
- cbg0 5y ago
  https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F503fb110-f91e-4bed-b6dc-0d09582dd007 https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2...
- CapsAdmin 5y ago
  kinda funny how it sort of reads: Inside Putin’s circle — the real Russian elite. An intelligent take on global lifestyle, arts and culture - Insightful reads - Interviews & reviews - The FT Crossword - Travel, houses, entertainment & style
  - galaxyLogic 5y ago
    And all behind paywall, as if they didn't want you to see what they are writing. In time of crisis like this you should expect FT to do at least a token contribution to spread true information. Other commercial news outlets like say New York Times let the casual reader read a few articles for free, but not FT it seems.
doe88 5y ago
Another interesting opinion piece in NYT on this subject https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...
te_chris 5y ago
Excellent and thorough piece of writing
user249 5y ago
- hvs 5y ago
  Hacker News isn't an activist group, it's a tech website. Individuals on this site may or may not be "doing" something about Ukraine but there is no reason to associate this with HN being "good" or "bad". I've seen this sentiment in other places as well. Everything doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause.
  - SavageBeast 5y ago
    "Everything doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause." - sadly this is too long to easily fit on a tee shirt or I swear Id have one made right now. You make a very insightful point.
- tunesmith 5y ago
  I'm not as surprised, given the kind of discussion we've seen the last few years. Hacker News main audience isn't true hackers. A large proportion of its readers are techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent.
  - worik 5y ago
    > techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent. Not me!
- SirYandi 5y ago
  I know this is a selfish perspective but the Ukraine/Russia news cycle has been hitting my mental health pretty hard. Its nice to come here and see the usual interesting techy stuff and get a break from the horror. Not that I disagree with your point. This is a place of intelligent discussion which could perhaps benefit Ukrainians better.
  - 5y ago
mekkkkkk 5y ago
I read an incredibly thorough book about Putin a year or so ago, and what stuck with me is how political his career in the KGB was. In those final years of the USSR, everything was in shambles, and any position of power became so through-and-through political. That makes his rise so interesting and frightening. He has been forged in a dark web of covert slush funds, power projection and kompramat. He was obviously very good at that game, and it continues today. EDIT: The book was "Putin's People" by Catherine Belton
- agumonkey 5y ago
  there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, a series called "Putin files" Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen It's partial but has a lot of detail On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer or even Stone. It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased anti aggressor in this case)
  - dralley 5y ago
    I watched both of those interviews yesterday, they are excellent.
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      It lacks the first hand soviet agent data that the ft article has, which more important in my view. Still better than nothing.
  - yucky 5y ago
    >Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer I don't know that I would refer to Professor Mearsheimer's view as pro-Russian, he has plenty of criticism of Putin and the Russian political system in general. But the fact that he has been railing on the likely consequences of our approach for dealing with the Russia/Ukraine situation for years, and been proved right, should make his writing and interviews required for anybody seeking to better understand who we got here.
mmaunder 5y ago
I’ve been a paid subscriber of FT for years. It’s horrifically expensive and worth every penny.
- leoh 5y ago
  One of the perks of Google is a free FT subscription, as it were
- notyourwork 5y ago
  I had to check pricing after reading your comment. $375/year! That sounds crazy.
  - jfk13 5y ago
    Does a dollar a day sound more affordable? Just read the news over a cup of home-brewed coffee instead of getting a take-out, and you should easily break even. :)
    - 8ytecoder 5y ago
      They regularly have some deals going around. ft.com/weekendpodcast would also show you some deals. I pay around $80 a quarter. Like OP, worth every penny and it’s much more than just a financial newspaper. I get WSJ through work and NYT/WaPo are all super cheap. I’ve just never found the quality of FT. So I decided to pay for it. Another publication I recommend is The Economist.
    - dangrossman 5y ago
      If I'm going out to get my avocado toast anyway, it only makes sense to get the coffee with it since I'm right there. Maybe they should let me round up my change to get the day's FT news with my coffee at Starbucks instead.
      - malloryerik 5y ago
        Not an entirely bad idea.
Animats 5y ago
That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern Europe. A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, if it doesn't work, pull back and try something else. It's a must-win operation. Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  > Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Sometimes not even then. If the person who takes over is also a true believer in this manifest destiny, it can go on until all the believers in the inner circle die off.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. It can't happen soon enough.
  - Razengan 5y ago
    I’m curious, would you have called for the assasination of Bush during the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? Or the American presidents during the massacres in Vietnam?
- worik 5y ago
  > Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Or Russia wins
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    that's not going to happen. When they try to take a NATO country it's over for them. Possibly over for all of us.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
can somebody tell me why pretty much any (even random) configuration sounds kind of good?
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  why the downvotes? I am actually wondering about that?
  - tapas73 5y ago
    I assume your comment is accidentally on a wrong thread.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior civilisation." Money quote.
- hcarvalhoalves 5y ago
  The idea of a centralised planned state fell with the USSR, and it was widely argued that it fell _because_ of central planning. China is becoming a counter-example for the people who have always been fond of the idea of having a state ruled by an "elite", with the perception that democracy is fragile and doesn't work for long-term (more than a 4/5 years mandate) planning.
  - the_lonely_road 5y ago
    The world changed in a very significant way over the last 70 years. Even more so over the last 20 years. It may very well end up that the Information Age has tipped the scales and our large meandering decentralized democracies are no longer the superior model they were back when it took 4 weeks to get a letter from New York City to Washington DC. Now it’s a synchronous call with satellite footage of every inch of the earth. It may very be that centralized planned economies are now the superior model and only the test of time will unveil which is true. I’ve lost a bit of sleep wondering about this over the years.
    - refurb 5y ago
      I wouldn’t lose sleep. Central planning hasn’t been “hard to implement” its been a absolute disaster not just due to information scarcity, but for the same reason massive organizations in free markets rot from within.
    - singularity2001 5y ago
      On the other hand, the Information Age might for the first time in history enable true democracy, where every political decision can instantaneously be made by the voting populous. (not that farce of a democracy where a highspeed jet is allegedly steered by the binary input of "left" or "right" every four years)
bogomipz 5y ago
A related Op/Ed piece from yesterday regarding his inner circle and his isolation over the last couple of years: "How Vladimir Putin Lost Interest in the Present": https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...
thriftwy 5y ago
Better read https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/30301/story-of-faded-love/ https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/30301/story-of-faded-lov... (ru) All the Putinology tries to sell you that the trouble with Putin is entirely subjective. But it's not (that much).
- 323 5y ago
  > Explaining his position on NATO, Putin said that Russia is part of European culture. “I can't imagine my own country apart from Europe and the so-called civilized world, so I can hardly imagine NATO as an enemy. The problem is that the Russian understanding of "civilized" is different from the Western one. Just look at the "civilized" way he treats his people. Let's not even talk about the Moscow bombings that got him into power. The "it was an inside job" conspiracy is true, but in Russia, not in USA. Putin views what he's doing now in Ukraine as a civilized thing to do, Russia was promised things, wronged and now he's solving the problem after warning about it. Like civilized man do. This is why Russia will never be in NATO. Everybody understands that the Russian bear will lash out after a perceived slight. There is a great talk about "honor culture" versus "dignity culture". Russia is a "honor culture", the West is a "dignity culture". They don't mix.
mikkom 5y ago
Evaluation of Russia by Finnish Intelligence Colonel (subtitles) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw I think this is something you should watch if you are interested in how russia works. It's very straight talk and clarified russian mindset a lot for me at least.
- fouc 5y ago
  Interesting bits: * “the Russians have the ability to expect and endure a tremendous amount of suffering”.. “they have made suffering a virtue” * “global recession is not really a problem to Russia since they are in a recession all the time anyway” Kind of suggestive that what's happening won't be over anytime soon.
  - petre 5y ago
    What do you expect, really? Russians live in feudalism, only with modern technology. They haven't known anything other than totalitarian regimes, and when they had a little democracy after '91, it all fell apart for most of them. Maybe all of the interested parties should read a bit of Russian literature? If you want shortcuts, just read Vladimir Sorokin, but it's really more nuanced. The thing about suffering is also very enshrined in the Eastern Orthodox mindset.
- netsharc 5y ago
  Also a long and great Twitter thread: https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388 https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388
  - istjohn 5y ago
    He has a number of good threads.
    - Kinrany 5y ago
      He mixes evidence with unsupported opinions and just-so stories though.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
The bit about welcoming the patriotism of war reminded me of the 'conspiracy theory' that Putin blew up some of his own people in order to consolidate his power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings Now, some people believe that, some people don't, but since just before he invaded Ukraine he announced that they were one people, he's literally done the same thing again, blowing up "his own people", for his own political games, but openly.
- istjohn 5y ago
  There really is no question that Putin was behind the bombings. This American Life had a recent episode about them. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/transcript
  - tim333 5y ago
    That's impressively evil really.
  - Razengan 5y ago
    Just like Bush was behind 9/11?
    - istjohn 5y ago
      Spend 15 minutes looking into it and decide for yourself. The evidence really is compelling.
14 5y ago
I just want to remind people of 12ft.io to remove paywalls. It works well for most sites.
amai 5y ago
„ Ukraine’s place in this doctrine was accurately summed up by former US national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski: “Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.” The Russian establishment entirely agrees.“ This statement about Ukraine was presented by Brezezinski without any proof. In fact he just copied that idea from 19th century British geopolitics, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_Hist.... This theory was already controversial in 19th century, but in 21st century it is completely absurd. If you want to be an empire nowadays, you don‘t need a huge Black Sea fleet or a huge amount of land. You need a very strong economy. But occupying Ukraine will not help Russia accomplishing that. It is absurd, that the Russian elite believes into a theory written by an American, which was originally proposed by the British in the 19th century to explain why they need to fight the Russian empire in the Crimean War of 1853.
tim333 5y ago
>Even otherwise calm and reasonable members of the Russian establishment have snarled with fury when I have dared to suggest in conversation that it might be better for Russia itself to let Ukraine go. This all seems a bit unfortunate. I mean there are many examples of similar countries next to each other - US/Canada, France/Belgium, maybe even England/Scotland and it's no really tragedy to let the less powerful one do it's own thing and be independent if it wants. In England in the past we've made efforts to control Ireland and it's caused a bunch of problems compared to if we had just let the thing go without the Donbass / Northern Ireland stuff.

214 points by mayiplease 5y ago

https://archive.ph/RXgCG https://archive.ph/RXgCG

Strangely, one figure is notably omitted from the "exposé" is Dmitry Medvedev. Who is none other than the former president, and still acting member of the current "politbureau"... Who knows, maybe he is the "one senior official" mentioned as being the author's source on some of the topics. Protect your sources!

ordu 5y ago

> These men are known in Russia as the “siloviki” — “men of force”, or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, “hard men”. Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and security guards). It refers to police, military or any other organization with a dress code that requires a gun.

twelve40 5y ago
yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described, except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a gun, are also included.
- qiskit 5y ago
  We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns, they don't wear guns.
  - adamc 5y ago
    Right, in English "wear" generally means something you can "put on" and you can't "put a gun on" either. Although you can put on a holster. ;-)
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      Although, in this case specifically, "wear a gun" is pretty common place and doesn't sound out if place at all. I think this may come down to regional dialect differences, but it doesn't make this pedant look good (and I generally love pedants.)
  - SkinTaco 5y ago
    What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain from your comment? Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine question that thought to myself when I read your comment. I can't think of a better way to phrase it.
    - qiskit 5y ago
      Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native english speaker and was helping him out.
      - js2 5y ago
        I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”. People absolutely say that. It’s not even pedantically incorrect: 2 (b) to carry on the person; wear a sword https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=bks https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=bks
        qiskit 5y ago
        > I’m a native U.S. English speaker and I didn’t think twice about “wear a gun”. Maybe it's regional. I've never heard it said that way before. "Are you wearing a gun"? "Concealed wearing laws"? Doesn't sound right, but I guess people do use it. Don't cops ask "Do you have a gun on you" or "Are you carrying?". I think most of us would find it weird if a cop asked us "Are you wearing a gun?".
- ordu 5y ago
  Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at least have a license to wear gun. Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This knowledge tells me that "силовые структуры"/"structures of force" are organizations that use force to solve problems. And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong with that last statement, and moreover language is changing, so the generally accepted meaning of the word can differ from what I had learnt in my childhood.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    > FSB is an intelligence agency, They are also a military branch and have military ranks, although they don't wear uniforms. The FSB acts like a combination of FBI, a border patrol and secret police. They are also the group allowed to carry out an assassination on foreign soil (according to Russian law), although they are not allowed to authorize such a mission on their own.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    > FSB is an intelligence agency It is a security agency, a.k.a. the “secret police.” (It does, of course, spy on the populace.)
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Basically the Stasi of Russia, no?
      - outside1234 5y ago
        They are, in fact, what the Stasi were modeled after.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - 5y ago
throwawaymanbot 5y ago
The Irish term “hard man” is more of a meaning about a persons spirit/ attitude to certain things. It does mean someone you don’t want to mess with or in fact have any sort of dealings with. (unless you can equivalently “nullify” their attitude and there’s only one thing usually that can nullify a “hard man”… and this the cycle begins.
lordnacho 5y ago
> other organization with a dress code that requires a gun Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone?
- IncRnd 5y ago
  > Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that undertone? As does "Department of Homeland Security". That was the first federal agency named that way, and prior to that people would have thought that sort of naming to be associated with the Stassi or a totalitarian regime. I suppose it is commonplace now.
  - murderfs 5y ago
    "Federal Bureau of Investigation" or "Secret Service" aren't particularly friendly sounding names either...
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Friendly sounding to whom?
- fragmede 5y ago
  Unconscious bias at work. Russians aren't mostly mobsters wearing Adidas track suits, despite what you see on TV and in movies.
- skrtskrt 5y ago
  or mercenaries/"private security"
- xxs 5y ago
  >is it supposed to have that undertone? nope. the 2nd word means "structures" and it implies part of the state.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun No, that sounds like any armed forces, police force, the secret service, etc.
thanatos519 5y ago
"other organization with a dress code that requires a gun" ⇒ mafia.
- watwut 5y ago
  Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or anything.
  - benatkin 5y ago
    A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the same way the unlicense is a license. I think that undercover or plainclothes in most cases has enough rules that it constitutes a dress code, even if you think a dress code needs to have rules about more than one article of clothing to be considered a dress code.
    - watwut 5y ago
      Afaik, mafia does not require gun and holster on you typically. Plus, in situation where you have to have one, it is closer to requirement to have a tool with you then dress code. I don't understand why the need to twist mafia into dress code group. Russian mafia is know entity, so is albanian one. Ukraine mafia exists too. It is just that, dress code is not what would be associated with them.
      - benatkin 5y ago
        Point taken. I retract my statements. I think it is possible to have a dress code for under cover policing. I guess the only thing left is that I think that a dress code is not the same as a uniform, and that an undercover operation could have a dress code similar to a nightclub, where there are rules but no specific products that have to be worn.
huhtenberg 5y ago
"siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police). That's it.
- trhway 5y ago
  Good news - as result of Ukraine war failure these lowlifes are starting to eat each other - the director of foreign intelligence of FSB has just got arrested for "embezzling money intended for sabotage and gathering of intelligence in Ukraine and for providing false information about political situation in Ukraine" :) From https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-ukraine-right-by-the-nato-border https://www.thedailybeast.com/now-russia-is-bombing-western-... : "Meanwhile, panic appears to be setting in within Putin’s inner circle, with the Russian leader allegedly firing eight generals and putting the head of his FSB spy arm Sergei Beseda and his deputy under house arrest" Russian: https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/11/zhurnalist-andrey-soldatov-rukovoditelya-vneshney-razvedki-fsb-otpravili-pod-domashniy-arest-ofitsialno-eto-ne-podtverzhdeno https://meduza.io/news/2022/03/11/zhurnalist-andrey-soldatov... All that while 3 generals have already been killed in Ukraine in addition to uncounted number of officers with no major military success. That is bound to cause "friction" between various arms of the "siloviki". There is also a large fight brewing between FSB and Chechens (they have been in "cold war" state) as large convoy of Chechen forces in Ukraine was completely destroyed by Ukrainians based on information that seems to had been leaked by FSB.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Putin surrounded himself with yes men. These people are afraid to displease Putin and end up taking shortcuts left and right to give him what he wants. Only fear is keeping this system from crumbling, they’re all afraid of eachother. “ Soldierov told the British Times that it could well be that the FSB had realistic knowledge of the situation in Ukraine - the only question was what was passed on to Putin. "The problem lies in the fact that it is often risky for those responsible to tell Putin things that he doesn't want to hear," Soldierov said.” [0] https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-put-secret-service-chiefs-under-house-arrest-out-of-anger.H1g4iyyK-q.html https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-03-11-putin-is-said-to-have-pu...
zoomablemind 5y ago
> ...The word "siloviki" made from "силовые структуры", which may be translated literally as "structures of force"... "siloviki" => members/heads of the law enforcement and security agencies, read "enforcers". But "hard men" passes the forceful connotation well enough.

edhowzerblack 5y ago

[flagged]

andrewflnr 5y ago
Which is why someone helpfully posted an archive link.
cbg0 5y ago
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F503fb110-f91e-4bed-b6dc-0d09582dd007 https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2...
CapsAdmin 5y ago
kinda funny how it sort of reads: Inside Putin’s circle — the real Russian elite. An intelligent take on global lifestyle, arts and culture - Insightful reads - Interviews & reviews - The FT Crossword - Travel, houses, entertainment & style
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  And all behind paywall, as if they didn't want you to see what they are writing. In time of crisis like this you should expect FT to do at least a token contribution to spread true information. Other commercial news outlets like say New York Times let the casual reader read a few articles for free, but not FT it seems.

doe88 5y ago

Another interesting opinion piece in NYT on this subject https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...

te_chris 5y ago

Excellent and thorough piece of writing

user249 5y ago

hvs 5y ago
Hacker News isn't an activist group, it's a tech website. Individuals on this site may or may not be "doing" something about Ukraine but there is no reason to associate this with HN being "good" or "bad". I've seen this sentiment in other places as well. Everything doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause.
- SavageBeast 5y ago
  "Everything doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause." - sadly this is too long to easily fit on a tee shirt or I swear Id have one made right now. You make a very insightful point.
tunesmith 5y ago
I'm not as surprised, given the kind of discussion we've seen the last few years. Hacker News main audience isn't true hackers. A large proportion of its readers are techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent.
- worik 5y ago
  > techno-libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an authoritarian bent. Not me!
SirYandi 5y ago
I know this is a selfish perspective but the Ukraine/Russia news cycle has been hitting my mental health pretty hard. Its nice to come here and see the usual interesting techy stuff and get a break from the horror. Not that I disagree with your point. This is a place of intelligent discussion which could perhaps benefit Ukrainians better.
- 5y ago

mekkkkkk 5y ago

I read an incredibly thorough book about Putin a year or so ago, and what stuck with me is how political his career in the KGB was. In those final years of the USSR, everything was in shambles, and any position of power became so through-and-through political. That makes his rise so interesting and frightening. He has been forged in a dark web of covert slush funds, power projection and kompramat. He was obviously very good at that game, and it continues today. EDIT: The book was "Putin's People" by Catherine Belton

agumonkey 5y ago
there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC, a series called "Putin files" Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen It's partial but has a lot of detail On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer or even Stone. It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased anti aggressor in this case)
- dralley 5y ago
  I watched both of those interviews yesterday, they are excellent.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    It lacks the first hand soviet agent data that the ft article has, which more important in my view. Still better than nothing.
- yucky 5y ago
  >Russian friendly views such as Mearsheimer I don't know that I would refer to Professor Mearsheimer's view as pro-Russian, he has plenty of criticism of Putin and the Russian political system in general. But the fact that he has been railing on the likely consequences of our approach for dealing with the Russia/Ukraine situation for years, and been proved right, should make his writing and interviews required for anybody seeking to better understand who we got here.

mmaunder 5y ago

I’ve been a paid subscriber of FT for years. It’s horrifically expensive and worth every penny.

leoh 5y ago
One of the perks of Google is a free FT subscription, as it were
notyourwork 5y ago
I had to check pricing after reading your comment. $375/year! That sounds crazy.
- jfk13 5y ago
  Does a dollar a day sound more affordable? Just read the news over a cup of home-brewed coffee instead of getting a take-out, and you should easily break even. :)
  - 8ytecoder 5y ago
    They regularly have some deals going around. ft.com/weekendpodcast would also show you some deals. I pay around $80 a quarter. Like OP, worth every penny and it’s much more than just a financial newspaper. I get WSJ through work and NYT/WaPo are all super cheap. I’ve just never found the quality of FT. So I decided to pay for it. Another publication I recommend is The Economist.
  - dangrossman 5y ago
    If I'm going out to get my avocado toast anyway, it only makes sense to get the coffee with it since I'm right there. Maybe they should let me round up my change to get the day's FT news with my coffee at Starbucks instead.
    - malloryerik 5y ago
      Not an entirely bad idea.

Animats 5y ago

That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern Europe. A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great, if it doesn't work, pull back and try something else. It's a must-win operation. Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Sometimes not even then. If the person who takes over is also a true believer in this manifest destiny, it can go on until all the believers in the inner circle die off.
jacquesm 5y ago
> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. It can't happen soon enough.
- Razengan 5y ago
  I’m curious, would you have called for the assasination of Bush during the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? Or the American presidents during the massacres in Vietnam?
worik 5y ago
> Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is killed. Or Russia wins
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  that's not going to happen. When they try to take a NATO country it's over for them. Possibly over for all of us.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

can somebody tell me why pretty much any (even random) configuration sounds kind of good?

2-718-281-828 5y ago
why the downvotes? I am actually wondering about that?
- tapas73 5y ago
  I assume your comment is accidentally on a wrong thread.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

"I believe, however, that Putin and the siloviki (though not many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west]. They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting the idea of China as a separate and superior civilisation." Money quote.

hcarvalhoalves 5y ago
The idea of a centralised planned state fell with the USSR, and it was widely argued that it fell _because_ of central planning. China is becoming a counter-example for the people who have always been fond of the idea of having a state ruled by an "elite", with the perception that democracy is fragile and doesn't work for long-term (more than a 4/5 years mandate) planning.
- the_lonely_road 5y ago
  The world changed in a very significant way over the last 70 years. Even more so over the last 20 years. It may very well end up that the Information Age has tipped the scales and our large meandering decentralized democracies are no longer the superior model they were back when it took 4 weeks to get a letter from New York City to Washington DC. Now it’s a synchronous call with satellite footage of every inch of the earth. It may very be that centralized planned economies are now the superior model and only the test of time will unveil which is true. I’ve lost a bit of sleep wondering about this over the years.
  - refurb 5y ago
    I wouldn’t lose sleep. Central planning hasn’t been “hard to implement” its been a absolute disaster not just due to information scarcity, but for the same reason massive organizations in free markets rot from within.
  - singularity2001 5y ago
    On the other hand, the Information Age might for the first time in history enable true democracy, where every political decision can instantaneously be made by the voting populous. (not that farce of a democracy where a highspeed jet is allegedly steered by the binary input of "left" or "right" every four years)

bogomipz 5y ago

A related Op/Ed piece from yesterday regarding his inner circle and his isolation over the last couple of years: "How Vladimir Putin Lost Interest in the Present": https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...

thriftwy 5y ago

Better read https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/30301/story-of-faded-love/ https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/30301/story-of-faded-lov... (ru) All the Putinology tries to sell you that the trouble with Putin is entirely subjective. But it's not (that much).

323 5y ago
> Explaining his position on NATO, Putin said that Russia is part of European culture. “I can't imagine my own country apart from Europe and the so-called civilized world, so I can hardly imagine NATO as an enemy. The problem is that the Russian understanding of "civilized" is different from the Western one. Just look at the "civilized" way he treats his people. Let's not even talk about the Moscow bombings that got him into power. The "it was an inside job" conspiracy is true, but in Russia, not in USA. Putin views what he's doing now in Ukraine as a civilized thing to do, Russia was promised things, wronged and now he's solving the problem after warning about it. Like civilized man do. This is why Russia will never be in NATO. Everybody understands that the Russian bear will lash out after a perceived slight. There is a great talk about "honor culture" versus "dignity culture". Russia is a "honor culture", the West is a "dignity culture". They don't mix.

mikkom 5y ago

Evaluation of Russia by Finnish Intelligence Colonel (subtitles) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kF9KretXqJw I think this is something you should watch if you are interested in how russia works. It's very straight talk and clarified russian mindset a lot for me at least.

fouc 5y ago
Interesting bits: * “the Russians have the ability to expect and endure a tremendous amount of suffering”.. “they have made suffering a virtue” * “global recession is not really a problem to Russia since they are in a recession all the time anyway” Kind of suggestive that what's happening won't be over anytime soon.
- petre 5y ago
  What do you expect, really? Russians live in feudalism, only with modern technology. They haven't known anything other than totalitarian regimes, and when they had a little democracy after '91, it all fell apart for most of them. Maybe all of the interested parties should read a bit of Russian literature? If you want shortcuts, just read Vladimir Sorokin, but it's really more nuanced. The thing about suffering is also very enshrined in the Eastern Orthodox mindset.
netsharc 5y ago
Also a long and great Twitter thread: https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388 https://nitter.net/kamilkazani/status/1501360272442896388
- istjohn 5y ago
  He has a number of good threads.
  - Kinrany 5y ago
    He mixes evidence with unsupported opinions and just-so stories though.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

The bit about welcoming the patriotism of war reminded me of the 'conspiracy theory' that Putin blew up some of his own people in order to consolidate his power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings Now, some people believe that, some people don't, but since just before he invaded Ukraine he announced that they were one people, he's literally done the same thing again, blowing up "his own people", for his own political games, but openly.

istjohn 5y ago
There really is no question that Putin was behind the bombings. This American Life had a recent episode about them. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/763/transcript
- tim333 5y ago
  That's impressively evil really.
- Razengan 5y ago
  Just like Bush was behind 9/11?
  - istjohn 5y ago
    Spend 15 minutes looking into it and decide for yourself. The evidence really is compelling.

14 5y ago

I just want to remind people of 12ft.io to remove paywalls. It works well for most sites.

amai 5y ago

„ Ukraine’s place in this doctrine was accurately summed up by former US national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski: “Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.” The Russian establishment entirely agrees.“ This statement about Ukraine was presented by Brezezinski without any proof. In fact he just copied that idea from 19th century British geopolitics, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geographical_Pivot_of_Hist.... This theory was already controversial in 19th century, but in 21st century it is completely absurd. If you want to be an empire nowadays, you don‘t need a huge Black Sea fleet or a huge amount of land. You need a very strong economy. But occupying Ukraine will not help Russia accomplishing that. It is absurd, that the Russian elite believes into a theory written by an American, which was originally proposed by the British in the 19th century to explain why they need to fight the Russian empire in the Crimean War of 1853.

tim333 5y ago

>Even otherwise calm and reasonable members of the Russian establishment have snarled with fury when I have dared to suggest in conversation that it might be better for Russia itself to let Ukraine go. This all seems a bit unfortunate. I mean there are many examples of similar countries next to each other - US/Canada, France/Belgium, maybe even England/Scotland and it's no really tragedy to let the less powerful one do it's own thing and be independent if it wants. In England in the past we've made efforts to control Ireland and it's caused a bunch of problems compared to if we had just let the thing go without the Donbass / Northern Ireland stuff.