8 ms·

Off-Facebook Activity

166 points by stclaus 7y ago

pesenti 7y ago
This is the clear history feature that was announced a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325. See also the engineering post that explains some of the challenges in implementing this: https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-activity/ https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-...
- tobr 7y ago
  This comment is by Jérôme Pesenti, VP of AI at Facebook.
- eropple 7y ago
  Respectfully: if your employer (for as I understand it you are a Facebook employee) encounters "challenges" to treating people decently and not running a panopticon on humanity at large, it is hard to see a reason why your employer should be allowed to continue as a going concern.
- jforberg 7y ago
  > challenges rm -rf /var/tracking_data/jforberg
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    > challenges "How do we delete the data, and still profit from it?"
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  If it’s challenging to make a feature treat users with respect then maybe you shouldn’t have built the feature in the first place? It’s like designing a dangerous rollercoaster with no concern for safety, and then when people start dying complaining about how hard it was to make it safe. Nasty, unethical, criminal and morally bankrupt company. There are no other words to describe it.
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    Did you read the article? If you read between the lines is really tells you what they think of user's privacy. Apparently their systems was never designed to allow deletion of data, and they had to do investigations just to figure out what the different teams were doing with it. There is no way they found everything. If I was investing a a GDPR complaint, this article contains a lot of information that would be useful when asking questions to FB.
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      I think you are either completely unaware of the whole situation with Facebook and their business model or you have ulterior motives. When I read between the lines I see just a nasty attempt at PR to keep naive users & clueless regulators happy by offering the illusion of choice and control over your data. The reality is that they designed malicious infrastructure akin to a spyware’s command and control center (but at scale, while the other spyware usually gets by with brittle PHP scripts dropped on a hacked shared host) and are now offering you tools to (supposedly) opt-out from a threat they created in the first place.
      - lokedhs 7y ago
        I don't know why you suggest I'm unaware. I'm completely in agreement with you. You might have thought I was making excuses for them. On the contrary, they clearly never designed a system to delete data because the mere idea of actually deleting information associated with a user is so alien to them that they never even thought of it.
        Nextgrid 7y ago
        Apologies - I guess I was in the wrong state of mind when I read it yesterday as now it appears completely clear what you meant.
        lokedhs 7y ago
        Actually, when I read my original message, I can see how it can be mistaken for making the opposite statement. I usually try to be as clear as possible, but when it comes to that company I just don't see how anyone could be apologetic for them, so I never read my own post from that perspective.
- nod 7y ago
  Why is it no longer a "clear history" feature?
  - olliej 7y ago
    money? Or maybe just Facebook is at its core opposed to the idea of not misleading their users. I mean it's also worth noting that to access the misleading "clear history" feature you have to create an FB account so they can track you more.
- bubble_talk 7y ago
  Since no one else has asked yet: You seem like a nice guy who could probably get a job elsewhere easily. Why are you still at FB?
  - krn 7y ago
    Maybe the position of VP of AI at other FAANG companies was already taken, and there were no other alternatives at the similar level of prestige and compensation in the job market.
    - bubble_talk 7y ago
      >>similar level of prestige Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined - "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration". Facebook lied to ad buyers (customers) about video views https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccu... Facebook lied to users about their spying app https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-caught-lying-about-spying-on-teenage-users-data-yet-again/#b5b53b142888 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-... Facebook lied to regulators about its ability to combine user data https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp-instagram-third-party-user-data-combined-banned-germany-fco-competition https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp... Facebook lied to journalists about the CA issue https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-journalists-about-how-bad-the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-was https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-j... They don't mind doing mood manipulation experiments https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every... They have absolutely no qualms stooping low enough to steal money from kids https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fraud-scandal-what-parents-need-to-know/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fr... Based on the definition above, there is only one prestigious job left at Facebook. Whistle-blower.
      - krn 7y ago
- olliej 7y ago
  This is at best disingenuous - you are a VP at facebook and should preface a comment that tries to claim FB is respecting people's privacy with a comment to the effect of: "I am a VP at Facebook and my income is based on how effectively we track and abuse the privacy of the general public, whether or not they are user's or have agreed to any contract with my employer"
  - pesenti 7y ago
    I do add a disclaimer when I express an opinion. I didn't mean to imply anything here, I was just really pointing people to extra information. But I guess if that came across differently, it would have been safer to add the disclaimer anyway.
- amaccuish 7y ago
  It's like how the scale of Google forced them to come up with Spanner to solve their engineering challenges: Facebook collects so much data it's now having to develop new systems and ingenious methods to allow users to delete said data.
cameronbrown 7y ago
This is a good step but it'll probably be something that won't be pushed widely by Facebook themselves but pointed to by them to regulators, saying 'look, we do care!'
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  This is a good step I disagree. It's a typical Facebook step. Sneaky, shifty and weasely.
high_derivative 7y ago
'The off-Facebook activity setting isn't currently available to you right now.' Smart, announcing it without it being usable, so when it's silently rolled out later people will have forgotten about it. Never change, FB.
- moneil971 7y ago
  It’s rolled out in Ireland, South Korea and Spain to start, more countries are coming soon.
  - high_derivative 7y ago
    Sorry, but my point stands. In Facebook's case, there is absolutely zero reason to assume good intentions, give the benefit of the doubt, have general good-will, or believe its employees regarding privacy aims.
    - la_barba 7y ago
      Which social media company would you believe regarding privacy?
      - chillydawg 7y ago
        None, obviously.
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        The Masons.
      - fghtr 7y ago
        Purism: https://librem.one/ https://librem.one/
        rtkwe 7y ago
        Any social with a monthly fee is not going to hit the same network criticality that makes Facebook reign supreme. Attracting people to a new service is hard enough tell them it'll cost 50$ a year and it's hopeless.
tobr 7y ago
So how will this work if I don’t use a Facebook account?
- givinguflac 7y ago
  That's my question as well, they aren't saying anything about shadow profiles. It seems like a ploy to get people to create accounts just to 'stop' tracking.
  - tobr 7y ago
    There’s a bunch of FB employees in the comments here, so I guess they will answer soon. EDIT: Any moment now, I suppose it might take a while to type up a thorough, elucidating answer.
    - Jerry2 7y ago
      > I guess they will answer soon You're way too optimistic.
  - megous 7y ago
    If you read the article linked in the comments, it looks like this works by creating a special tracking ID for each user that can be disconnected from the real UID, if the user chooses to. So if you don't have FB, presumably you already don't have UID, so you're on equal footing with Facebook users that use this future. They are tracked, but tracking data is not connected to their UIDs.
    - raquo 7y ago
      If you don't have a facebook account, facebook likely has a shadow profile for you. Which would carry your phone number, full name, and whatever else they could extract from your friends' phonebooks and whatever other sources they use. There is no opting out of that, and there is no opting out of facebook getting third party data that lets them connect your shadow profile to a cookie, or to information collected by third parties.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mattkevan 7y ago
Hmm, a clear history feature that does nothing of the sort. Sounds like Facebook! The product manager in charge said: “people were able to mentally connect that with how their browser controls work, where they can clear their history. We clearly state that … the information isn’t connected to your account.” [0] So, they deliberately designed it to make people think it works like a browser's clear history feature (which does delete everything), but instead, it 'disconnects' the data (but doesn't delete anything). Such a bunch of weasels. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-launches-clear-history-tool-but-it-wont-delete-anything https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-...
- gaogao 7y ago
  That's why it's not called clear history anymore...
  - flattone 7y ago
    propose the original comment was more about the behavior of Facebook being mechanized both at interface and internal product culture to be anti traditional Western/free thinking human from the bleeding edge of our ever emerging attention capital economy.
- yumraj 7y ago
  > Such a bunch of weasels I think it's more like a very big weasel and his cult-followers.
- lunchables 7y ago
  Anyone still using Facebook at this point is insane or has some direct financial motivation to continue using it. I don't know what else people need to see to stop using it.
  - edgarvaldes 7y ago
    A better alternative to groups and planning for the non technical user? I don't use Facebook as much, but I see the appeal.
ProAm 7y ago
So creepy.
pictur 7y ago
Why do people keep using facebook? I don't want to see this shit anymore.
- pyr0hu 7y ago
  Keep in touch with family and friends. In my country (hungary) most people use Messenger to communicate. It'd take too much time and hassle to introduce new apps and platforms to my friends to keep in touch with them.
  - pkilgore 7y ago
    You'll discover the people that really care about you will find a way, and that you're largely better off without the people who dont.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  It's for kids to share memes under fake profiles and boomers to share fake news under real profiles. A hard cut from facebook is surprisingly easy. The biggest challenge is getting over the mentality of fear that it will somehow be challenging.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Semaphor 7y ago
    It’s to keep a loose connection with distant people and organize private events and find out about non-personal events and happenings. Just because the people you added on facebook filled it with bullshit, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone. I’d love to get away from them, but I have yet to find a workable alternative.
    - nimajneb 7y ago
      Yes, I rarely see memes, super political posts, or such. A lot of what I see on FB is stuff that people would tell me in person if I was standing next to them at the time. You can also somewhat filter what you see by unfollowing or unfriending people that post a lot of stuff you dislike.
6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago
Ugh, this just reads so slimy. Like, "Occasionally, businesses share that data with Facebook." or "We sometimes receive information from businesses that use third-party data..." Like it just happens to occur. 'Yep, It's just a natural process, buddy, like the sun rising. It just happens. But we're here to help you deal with this mysterious problem, because we're the good guys!' There's so much grossness to opt out of in the modern world. Thank god for GDPR and CCPA.
5trokerac3 7y ago
[Ron Burgundy "I don't believe you" GIF]
roddux 7y ago
>If you'd like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally. Specifically no mention that they will delete the data, helpfully combined with no mention that it's trivial to deanonymise such data. TL;DR: This is a bullshit PR piece to assuage worries that Facebook data-mining the internet. They still are. Move along.
elicash 7y ago
Facebook deleted a ton of the really valuable ad settings controls I used to prevent bad advertiser behavior somewhat recently. I'd rather have that ability to block advertisers uploading data I didn't give them than this feature. And all they'd have to do is turn it back on.
typicalfacebk 7y ago
This seems nearly useless. It doesn't remove the data when you clear it. It simply "disconnects it from your user ID". But we've seen before that the collected data has so much personally identifiable information in it, that the user ID isn't needed anyway. So in reality, this does nothing. And Facebook absolutely knows this.
- timgilbert 7y ago
  Yeah, if the personal (or shadow) profile has a phone number, and the same phone number is in the tracked data, removing the personal profile's user ID seems a little beside the point.
rolltiide 7y ago
> If you’d like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally. “But we still keep it and the entire unique fingerprint”
winternett 7y ago
Hey Guys, We here at Facebook realized you don't trust our apps, so we made another app that makes you think our apps are safe. Despite this just being another app within our portfolio of tracking tools. Please download and install, otherwise the other apps may not work eventually. Trust us. ಠ_ಠ
- _bxg1 7y ago
  And just look at that lovely, friendly new shade of blue! There's no way a company using that color can mean any harm!
  - mattkevan 7y ago
    And such an open and trustworthy font. No one using a typeface like that can be shady, surely?
  - ziddoap 7y ago
    Blue, the color of calm. And data hoarding.
  - CaptainZapp 7y ago
    Is there an image of a cute bunny? Like when they asked for permition (in a typically snaeky, weasely Facebook way) for permission to suck up your entire phone book data and message history (and even contents) from your Android device? I want a bunny!
- the_watcher 7y ago
  Where does it say you need to download another app? It lives in the Settings tab of the main app.
romaaeterna 7y ago
Here is a dirty GDPR secret: HDFS is an append-only filesystem. It's way too hard to delete things in big data projects, so they get disconnected instead.
kd3 7y ago
I just recently stopped using Facebook, Instagram and Whatsapp. Taking everyone close to me to Signal.
mosselman 7y ago
For Android, privacytools.io advises Blokada. It is an app that runs a sort of local pihole which enables it to block trackers in any app, not just a web browser. I don’t have an android phone myself, but I was very impressed when I tried it out on someone else’s. Is there a similar for iOS that anyone is aware of?
- skonteam 7y ago
  DNSCloak (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-client/id1452162351 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-client/id1...) seems to do the job.
  - vxNsr 7y ago
    thanks! I've been looking for something like this for while.
  - mosselman 7y ago
    Thanks! I have been trying it out and it seems to work well.
gukov 7y ago
Social media has became incredibly complex. Facebook now has a mini-site to explain the purpose of a single button.
dredmorbius 7y ago
"Disconnected". Data Re-Identification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification
jbaudanza 7y ago
Lately I've been thinking that the phrase "your data" is a deceptive use of language. It encourages the fantasy that you have some kind of ownership over the data that your actions produce. And that you have some natural right to control how it is used. The reality is that once data leaves your device, it's not yours anymore. It will almost certainly be used to track and manipulate you. If someone is talking about giving you control over "your data", it should be a signal that they intend to do the opposite. (like the OP). Maybe we need to give up this fantasy of "your data" before we can embrace technologies such as ad-blocking, encryption, and frankly abstaining from using abusive software.
- jasonjayr 7y ago
  Digital rights holders very much hold tightly to the fiction of "your data", and use the teeth of the law to fight anyone claiming otherwise, or copying it in a manner they did not authorize. (IANAL) At what point can we claim that Terms of Service statements are agreed to under duress, and regain rights to our data as the rightful copyright owner of such data?
newscracker 7y ago
As a good practice, does the user have to go to this page and “clear history” everyday, akin to brushing one’s teeth? Who’d even do that (not taking about brushing one’s teeth)? Why not make it like a permanent toggle that says “never associate off-Facebook activity with my account (to advertise to me and sell me stuff I don’t need)”? I don’t see anyone being creeped out or annoyed by “backpack ads” (as seen in that dramatization video of this feature) and still being ok with seeing continuous creepy and annoying ads for shoes or something else later.
beshrkayali 7y ago
In the video she said that the website sends data about you to Facebook. This is incorrect. Facebook is the one doing the collecting or the purchasing of your data from 3rd party collectors. I try to post this on every Facebook related post: Leave Facebook. You'll thank yourself a year from now.
- olliej 7y ago
  If you leave facebook you can't access the "clear history" feature, so they can track you and keep that information forever. Facebook is a morally bankrupt company and the only real fix is to black hole their many domains.
  - beshrkayali 7y ago
    Yes of course. Blackholing is step 2.
- echeese 7y ago
  Not true, you're able to advertise to specific groups of people by sending hashed email addresses in a "Customer List". I found this out when I discovered Rockstar Social Club targeted me for a GTA Online campaign.
tsjq 7y ago
as a non-FB user, do these browser settings keep FB from tracking me? block all 3rd party cookies, block all trackers, clear cookies on exit, uBlock Origin extension, and blocking FB related sites in /etc/hosts file
- bravoetch 7y ago
  It's hard to know for sure, and I think you're doing most of what you could do. More layers would be using TOR browser, noscript, and using a VPN for Al connections on your phone and other devices.
samschooler 7y ago
So I've all but given up on trusting these big corporations to delete all of my data when I turn off data collection/clear history. However, I think these activity tools are extremely useful. They allow me to see all (or at least most) of what Facebook/Google has on me and it allows me to practice and implement strategies that prevent the corps from collecting the data in the first place.
ben7799 7y ago
Wait how can I set my preferences for the activity they're tracking on me if I don't have an account? I'm not under any illusions they're not trying to track me despite me not having an account with them.
- daphneokeefe 7y ago
  We know that FB tracks us just as much as the people who have accounts. But we have less access and fewer rights.
  - CaptainZapp 7y ago
    Actually if you're in the EU you have more rights (but may have a hard time enforcing them). Data collection, according to the GDPR, requires a reason. If I have a Facebook account you're in a relationshio with the company and so they can argue that you agree to providing your data (it's all there in the 12000, or so, "User Agreement". If you do not use Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp you are not in a business relationship with the company and they have no right to collect and store your data. I have a feeling that there's a very nasty legal fight with the EU brewing here in a few years time.
tareqak 7y ago
I'm glad Facebook chose the name that they did. Hopefully enough people will ask, "why does Facebook care about my activity off Facebook?"
- gregknicholson 7y ago
  If you don't read it too closely, it sounds like an advert for the very concept of doing activities away from Facebook, which made me chuckle. “Exciting features include: Cycling through woods! Reading a story in a book made of paper! Now you can control what you see, do and think!”
plodman 7y ago
How does this work in terms of GDPR? If it’s only rolled out in a few countries, surely this is Facebook admitting they collect this data but we have no way to access it right now? Shouldn’t this incur a rather heavy fine?
shafyy 7y ago
Honestly, it pisses me off that I even have to THINK about this.
drinchev 7y ago
Facebook can receive whatever they deserve, but let's clap our hands on their development team. React is what currently puts bread on my table and it seems like it will do so for a long time. I can't think of a single big win from a social network in spending their money for R&D than FB ( look at LinkedIn for example ).
- sgt101 7y ago
  Kafka?
  - drinchev 7y ago
    Good point! :) Thanks for sharing that. > Apache Kafka is an open-source stream-processing software platform developed by LinkedIn and donated to the Apache Software Foundation, written in Scala and Java. [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka
sgt101 7y ago
Firefox, firefox, firefox! ((facebook containers -> it looks after you)) ironically, posted with Chrome
olliej 7y ago
Please create a facebook account so we can track you^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h help "you" can "control" how we make ads from our abuse of your privacy. We aren't going to stop tracking you, and "bugs" and "inadvertent" changes may "accidentally" reset your settings.
danpalmer 7y ago
Translations from their FAQs: > If I disconnect my activity, will I stop seeing ads? No. > Does disconnecting my activity mean that it's deleted? No. > Why am I seeing businesses I don't recognise? Because they are creepier than you thought.
werber 7y ago
Who is going to see this that isn't a nerd checking out places like HN like all of us? This doesn't seem like a real effort to aid user privacy, if it was it should be something that pops up in every facebook user's face, not an article you have to search for. Facebooks attempts at making up for their mistakes almost always leave me feeling worse about the company
kbos87 7y ago
This sounds so similar to the engineering of the notifications UI they have done over the past few years. When they say they’ve “given users more control”, yes, they’ve added toggles to that screen, but they’ve engineered the whole thing to take control away and force people into an all or nothing decision where Facebook has the ability to serve you a notification when they feel like you should be engaging.
powellbu 7y ago
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llamataboot 7y ago
All I want is a clear answer from someone at facebook. Why can't I choose to delete data about me from your database? I don't even nec need to be able to see it or do it at a granular level, though that would be nice. All I want to be able to do is say delete this. Can I delete a private message from your database? Can I delete your record of a status I wrote from your database? Can I delete access logs from a website that was using a FB pixel from your database?
lwh 7y ago
Does this block react CDN hits?
sandeshd 7y ago
What will happen to people who are already opted out of ads based on data from facebook business partners.
nappy 7y ago
Facebook just happens to get sent data... yeah, more like Facebook buys data. And invests heavily in tools to make it easier for its customers to send Facebook data.

166 points by stclaus 7y ago

This is the clear history feature that was announced a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16969325. See also the engineering post that explains some of the challenges in implementing this: https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-activity/ https://engineering.fb.com/data-infrastructure/off-facebook-...

tobr 7y ago
This comment is by Jérôme Pesenti, VP of AI at Facebook.
eropple 7y ago
Respectfully: if your employer (for as I understand it you are a Facebook employee) encounters "challenges" to treating people decently and not running a panopticon on humanity at large, it is hard to see a reason why your employer should be allowed to continue as a going concern.
jforberg 7y ago
> challenges rm -rf /var/tracking_data/jforberg
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  > challenges "How do we delete the data, and still profit from it?"
Nextgrid 7y ago
If it’s challenging to make a feature treat users with respect then maybe you shouldn’t have built the feature in the first place? It’s like designing a dangerous rollercoaster with no concern for safety, and then when people start dying complaining about how hard it was to make it safe. Nasty, unethical, criminal and morally bankrupt company. There are no other words to describe it.
- lokedhs 7y ago
  Did you read the article? If you read between the lines is really tells you what they think of user's privacy. Apparently their systems was never designed to allow deletion of data, and they had to do investigations just to figure out what the different teams were doing with it. There is no way they found everything. If I was investing a a GDPR complaint, this article contains a lot of information that would be useful when asking questions to FB.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    I think you are either completely unaware of the whole situation with Facebook and their business model or you have ulterior motives. When I read between the lines I see just a nasty attempt at PR to keep naive users & clueless regulators happy by offering the illusion of choice and control over your data. The reality is that they designed malicious infrastructure akin to a spyware’s command and control center (but at scale, while the other spyware usually gets by with brittle PHP scripts dropped on a hacked shared host) and are now offering you tools to (supposedly) opt-out from a threat they created in the first place.
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      I don't know why you suggest I'm unaware. I'm completely in agreement with you. You might have thought I was making excuses for them. On the contrary, they clearly never designed a system to delete data because the mere idea of actually deleting information associated with a user is so alien to them that they never even thought of it.
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        Apologies - I guess I was in the wrong state of mind when I read it yesterday as now it appears completely clear what you meant.
        lokedhs 7y ago
        Actually, when I read my original message, I can see how it can be mistaken for making the opposite statement. I usually try to be as clear as possible, but when it comes to that company I just don't see how anyone could be apologetic for them, so I never read my own post from that perspective.
nod 7y ago
Why is it no longer a "clear history" feature?
- olliej 7y ago
  money? Or maybe just Facebook is at its core opposed to the idea of not misleading their users. I mean it's also worth noting that to access the misleading "clear history" feature you have to create an FB account so they can track you more.
bubble_talk 7y ago
Since no one else has asked yet: You seem like a nice guy who could probably get a job elsewhere easily. Why are you still at FB?
- krn 7y ago
  Maybe the position of VP of AI at other FAANG companies was already taken, and there were no other alternatives at the similar level of prestige and compensation in the job market.
  - bubble_talk 7y ago
    >>similar level of prestige Assuming this isn't sarcasm, this is how the word prestige is defined - "denoting something that arouses widespread respect or admiration". Facebook lied to ad buyers (customers) about video views https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccurate-video-metrics-inflation-lawsuit https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/17/17989712/facebook-inaccu... Facebook lied to users about their spying app https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-caught-lying-about-spying-on-teenage-users-data-yet-again/#b5b53b142888 https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/03/02/facebook-... Facebook lied to regulators about its ability to combine user data https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp-instagram-third-party-user-data-combined-banned-germany-fco-competition https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/7/18215143/facebook-whatsapp... Facebook lied to journalists about the CA issue https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-journalists-about-how-bad-the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-was https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/qv777x/facebook-lied-to-j... They don't mind doing mood manipulation experiments https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/everything-we-know-about-facebooks-secret-mood-manipulation-experiment/373648/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/every... They have absolutely no qualms stooping low enough to steal money from kids https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fraud-scandal-what-parents-need-to-know/ https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/facebook-friendly-fr... Based on the definition above, there is only one prestigious job left at Facebook. Whistle-blower.
    - krn 7y ago
olliej 7y ago
This is at best disingenuous - you are a VP at facebook and should preface a comment that tries to claim FB is respecting people's privacy with a comment to the effect of: "I am a VP at Facebook and my income is based on how effectively we track and abuse the privacy of the general public, whether or not they are user's or have agreed to any contract with my employer"
- pesenti 7y ago
  I do add a disclaimer when I express an opinion. I didn't mean to imply anything here, I was just really pointing people to extra information. But I guess if that came across differently, it would have been safer to add the disclaimer anyway.
amaccuish 7y ago
It's like how the scale of Google forced them to come up with Spanner to solve their engineering challenges: Facebook collects so much data it's now having to develop new systems and ingenious methods to allow users to delete said data.

cameronbrown 7y ago

This is a good step but it'll probably be something that won't be pushed widely by Facebook themselves but pointed to by them to regulators, saying 'look, we do care!'

CaptainZapp 7y ago
This is a good step I disagree. It's a typical Facebook step. Sneaky, shifty and weasely.

high_derivative 7y ago

'The off-Facebook activity setting isn't currently available to you right now.' Smart, announcing it without it being usable, so when it's silently rolled out later people will have forgotten about it. Never change, FB.

moneil971 7y ago
It’s rolled out in Ireland, South Korea and Spain to start, more countries are coming soon.
- high_derivative 7y ago
  Sorry, but my point stands. In Facebook's case, there is absolutely zero reason to assume good intentions, give the benefit of the doubt, have general good-will, or believe its employees regarding privacy aims.
  - la_barba 7y ago
    Which social media company would you believe regarding privacy?
    - chillydawg 7y ago
      None, obviously.
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      The Masons.
    - fghtr 7y ago
      Purism: https://librem.one/ https://librem.one/
      - rtkwe 7y ago
        Any social with a monthly fee is not going to hit the same network criticality that makes Facebook reign supreme. Attracting people to a new service is hard enough tell them it'll cost 50$ a year and it's hopeless.

tobr 7y ago

So how will this work if I don’t use a Facebook account?

givinguflac 7y ago
That's my question as well, they aren't saying anything about shadow profiles. It seems like a ploy to get people to create accounts just to 'stop' tracking.
- tobr 7y ago
  There’s a bunch of FB employees in the comments here, so I guess they will answer soon. EDIT: Any moment now, I suppose it might take a while to type up a thorough, elucidating answer.
  - Jerry2 7y ago
    > I guess they will answer soon You're way too optimistic.
- megous 7y ago
  If you read the article linked in the comments, it looks like this works by creating a special tracking ID for each user that can be disconnected from the real UID, if the user chooses to. So if you don't have FB, presumably you already don't have UID, so you're on equal footing with Facebook users that use this future. They are tracked, but tracking data is not connected to their UIDs.
  - raquo 7y ago
    If you don't have a facebook account, facebook likely has a shadow profile for you. Which would carry your phone number, full name, and whatever else they could extract from your friends' phonebooks and whatever other sources they use. There is no opting out of that, and there is no opting out of facebook getting third party data that lets them connect your shadow profile to a cookie, or to information collected by third parties.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mattkevan 7y ago

Hmm, a clear history feature that does nothing of the sort. Sounds like Facebook! The product manager in charge said: “people were able to mentally connect that with how their browser controls work, where they can clear their history. We clearly state that … the information isn’t connected to your account.” [0] So, they deliberately designed it to make people think it works like a browser's clear history feature (which does delete everything), but instead, it 'disconnects' the data (but doesn't delete anything). Such a bunch of weasels. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-launches-clear-history-tool-but-it-wont-delete-anything https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/20/facebook-...

gaogao 7y ago
That's why it's not called clear history anymore...
- flattone 7y ago
  propose the original comment was more about the behavior of Facebook being mechanized both at interface and internal product culture to be anti traditional Western/free thinking human from the bleeding edge of our ever emerging attention capital economy.
yumraj 7y ago
> Such a bunch of weasels I think it's more like a very big weasel and his cult-followers.
lunchables 7y ago
Anyone still using Facebook at this point is insane or has some direct financial motivation to continue using it. I don't know what else people need to see to stop using it.
- edgarvaldes 7y ago
  A better alternative to groups and planning for the non technical user? I don't use Facebook as much, but I see the appeal.

ProAm 7y ago

So creepy.

pictur 7y ago

Why do people keep using facebook? I don't want to see this shit anymore.

pyr0hu 7y ago
Keep in touch with family and friends. In my country (hungary) most people use Messenger to communicate. It'd take too much time and hassle to introduce new apps and platforms to my friends to keep in touch with them.
- pkilgore 7y ago
  You'll discover the people that really care about you will find a way, and that you're largely better off without the people who dont.
ilikehurdles 7y ago
It's for kids to share memes under fake profiles and boomers to share fake news under real profiles. A hard cut from facebook is surprisingly easy. The biggest challenge is getting over the mentality of fear that it will somehow be challenging.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Semaphor 7y ago
  It’s to keep a loose connection with distant people and organize private events and find out about non-personal events and happenings. Just because the people you added on facebook filled it with bullshit, doesn’t mean it’s like that for everyone. I’d love to get away from them, but I have yet to find a workable alternative.
  - nimajneb 7y ago
    Yes, I rarely see memes, super political posts, or such. A lot of what I see on FB is stuff that people would tell me in person if I was standing next to them at the time. You can also somewhat filter what you see by unfollowing or unfriending people that post a lot of stuff you dislike.

6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago

Ugh, this just reads so slimy. Like, "Occasionally, businesses share that data with Facebook." or "We sometimes receive information from businesses that use third-party data..." Like it just happens to occur. 'Yep, It's just a natural process, buddy, like the sun rising. It just happens. But we're here to help you deal with this mysterious problem, because we're the good guys!' There's so much grossness to opt out of in the modern world. Thank god for GDPR and CCPA.

5trokerac3 7y ago

[Ron Burgundy "I don't believe you" GIF]

roddux 7y ago

>If you'd like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally. Specifically no mention that they will delete the data, helpfully combined with no mention that it's trivial to deanonymise such data. TL;DR: This is a bullshit PR piece to assuage worries that Facebook data-mining the internet. They still are. Move along.

elicash 7y ago

Facebook deleted a ton of the really valuable ad settings controls I used to prevent bad advertiser behavior somewhat recently. I'd rather have that ability to block advertisers uploading data I didn't give them than this feature. And all they'd have to do is turn it back on.

typicalfacebk 7y ago

This seems nearly useless. It doesn't remove the data when you clear it. It simply "disconnects it from your user ID". But we've seen before that the collected data has so much personally identifiable information in it, that the user ID isn't needed anyway. So in reality, this does nothing. And Facebook absolutely knows this.

timgilbert 7y ago
Yeah, if the personal (or shadow) profile has a phone number, and the same phone number is in the tracked data, removing the personal profile's user ID seems a little beside the point.

rolltiide 7y ago

> If you’d like, you can disconnect that information from your account, and it will not be associated with you personally. “But we still keep it and the entire unique fingerprint”

winternett 7y ago

Hey Guys, We here at Facebook realized you don't trust our apps, so we made another app that makes you think our apps are safe. Despite this just being another app within our portfolio of tracking tools. Please download and install, otherwise the other apps may not work eventually. Trust us. ಠ_ಠ

_bxg1 7y ago
And just look at that lovely, friendly new shade of blue! There's no way a company using that color can mean any harm!
- mattkevan 7y ago
  And such an open and trustworthy font. No one using a typeface like that can be shady, surely?
- ziddoap 7y ago
  Blue, the color of calm. And data hoarding.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  Is there an image of a cute bunny? Like when they asked for permition (in a typically snaeky, weasely Facebook way) for permission to suck up your entire phone book data and message history (and even contents) from your Android device? I want a bunny!
the_watcher 7y ago
Where does it say you need to download another app? It lives in the Settings tab of the main app.

romaaeterna 7y ago

Here is a dirty GDPR secret: HDFS is an append-only filesystem. It's way too hard to delete things in big data projects, so they get disconnected instead.

kd3 7y ago

I just recently stopped using Facebook, Instagram and Whatsapp. Taking everyone close to me to Signal.

mosselman 7y ago

For Android, privacytools.io advises Blokada. It is an app that runs a sort of local pihole which enables it to block trackers in any app, not just a web browser. I don’t have an android phone myself, but I was very impressed when I tried it out on someone else’s. Is there a similar for iOS that anyone is aware of?

skonteam 7y ago
DNSCloak (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-client/id1452162351 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dnscloak-secure-dns-client/id1...) seems to do the job.
- vxNsr 7y ago
  thanks! I've been looking for something like this for while.
- mosselman 7y ago
  Thanks! I have been trying it out and it seems to work well.

gukov 7y ago

Social media has became incredibly complex. Facebook now has a mini-site to explain the purpose of a single button.

dredmorbius 7y ago

"Disconnected". Data Re-Identification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_re-identification

jbaudanza 7y ago

Lately I've been thinking that the phrase "your data" is a deceptive use of language. It encourages the fantasy that you have some kind of ownership over the data that your actions produce. And that you have some natural right to control how it is used. The reality is that once data leaves your device, it's not yours anymore. It will almost certainly be used to track and manipulate you. If someone is talking about giving you control over "your data", it should be a signal that they intend to do the opposite. (like the OP). Maybe we need to give up this fantasy of "your data" before we can embrace technologies such as ad-blocking, encryption, and frankly abstaining from using abusive software.

jasonjayr 7y ago
Digital rights holders very much hold tightly to the fiction of "your data", and use the teeth of the law to fight anyone claiming otherwise, or copying it in a manner they did not authorize. (IANAL) At what point can we claim that Terms of Service statements are agreed to under duress, and regain rights to our data as the rightful copyright owner of such data?

newscracker 7y ago

As a good practice, does the user have to go to this page and “clear history” everyday, akin to brushing one’s teeth? Who’d even do that (not taking about brushing one’s teeth)? Why not make it like a permanent toggle that says “never associate off-Facebook activity with my account (to advertise to me and sell me stuff I don’t need)”? I don’t see anyone being creeped out or annoyed by “backpack ads” (as seen in that dramatization video of this feature) and still being ok with seeing continuous creepy and annoying ads for shoes or something else later.

beshrkayali 7y ago

In the video she said that the website sends data about you to Facebook. This is incorrect. Facebook is the one doing the collecting or the purchasing of your data from 3rd party collectors. I try to post this on every Facebook related post: Leave Facebook. You'll thank yourself a year from now.

olliej 7y ago
If you leave facebook you can't access the "clear history" feature, so they can track you and keep that information forever. Facebook is a morally bankrupt company and the only real fix is to black hole their many domains.
- beshrkayali 7y ago
  Yes of course. Blackholing is step 2.
echeese 7y ago
Not true, you're able to advertise to specific groups of people by sending hashed email addresses in a "Customer List". I found this out when I discovered Rockstar Social Club targeted me for a GTA Online campaign.

tsjq 7y ago

as a non-FB user, do these browser settings keep FB from tracking me? block all 3rd party cookies, block all trackers, clear cookies on exit, uBlock Origin extension, and blocking FB related sites in /etc/hosts file

bravoetch 7y ago
It's hard to know for sure, and I think you're doing most of what you could do. More layers would be using TOR browser, noscript, and using a VPN for Al connections on your phone and other devices.

samschooler 7y ago

So I've all but given up on trusting these big corporations to delete all of my data when I turn off data collection/clear history. However, I think these activity tools are extremely useful. They allow me to see all (or at least most) of what Facebook/Google has on me and it allows me to practice and implement strategies that prevent the corps from collecting the data in the first place.

ben7799 7y ago

Wait how can I set my preferences for the activity they're tracking on me if I don't have an account? I'm not under any illusions they're not trying to track me despite me not having an account with them.

daphneokeefe 7y ago
We know that FB tracks us just as much as the people who have accounts. But we have less access and fewer rights.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  Actually if you're in the EU you have more rights (but may have a hard time enforcing them). Data collection, according to the GDPR, requires a reason. If I have a Facebook account you're in a relationshio with the company and so they can argue that you agree to providing your data (it's all there in the 12000, or so, "User Agreement". If you do not use Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp you are not in a business relationship with the company and they have no right to collect and store your data. I have a feeling that there's a very nasty legal fight with the EU brewing here in a few years time.

tareqak 7y ago

I'm glad Facebook chose the name that they did. Hopefully enough people will ask, "why does Facebook care about my activity off Facebook?"

gregknicholson 7y ago
If you don't read it too closely, it sounds like an advert for the very concept of doing activities away from Facebook, which made me chuckle. “Exciting features include: Cycling through woods! Reading a story in a book made of paper! Now you can control what you see, do and think!”

plodman 7y ago

How does this work in terms of GDPR? If it’s only rolled out in a few countries, surely this is Facebook admitting they collect this data but we have no way to access it right now? Shouldn’t this incur a rather heavy fine?

shafyy 7y ago

Honestly, it pisses me off that I even have to THINK about this.

drinchev 7y ago

Facebook can receive whatever they deserve, but let's clap our hands on their development team. React is what currently puts bread on my table and it seems like it will do so for a long time. I can't think of a single big win from a social network in spending their money for R&D than FB ( look at LinkedIn for example ).

sgt101 7y ago
Kafka?
- drinchev 7y ago
  Good point! :) Thanks for sharing that. > Apache Kafka is an open-source stream-processing software platform developed by LinkedIn and donated to the Apache Software Foundation, written in Scala and Java. [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Kafka

sgt101 7y ago

Firefox, firefox, firefox! ((facebook containers -> it looks after you)) ironically, posted with Chrome

olliej 7y ago

Please create a facebook account so we can track you^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h help "you" can "control" how we make ads from our abuse of your privacy. We aren't going to stop tracking you, and "bugs" and "inadvertent" changes may "accidentally" reset your settings.

danpalmer 7y ago

Translations from their FAQs: > If I disconnect my activity, will I stop seeing ads? No. > Does disconnecting my activity mean that it's deleted? No. > Why am I seeing businesses I don't recognise? Because they are creepier than you thought.

werber 7y ago

Who is going to see this that isn't a nerd checking out places like HN like all of us? This doesn't seem like a real effort to aid user privacy, if it was it should be something that pops up in every facebook user's face, not an article you have to search for. Facebooks attempts at making up for their mistakes almost always leave me feeling worse about the company

kbos87 7y ago

This sounds so similar to the engineering of the notifications UI they have done over the past few years. When they say they’ve “given users more control”, yes, they’ve added toggles to that screen, but they’ve engineered the whole thing to take control away and force people into an all or nothing decision where Facebook has the ability to serve you a notification when they feel like you should be engaging.

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llamataboot 7y ago

All I want is a clear answer from someone at facebook. Why can't I choose to delete data about me from your database? I don't even nec need to be able to see it or do it at a granular level, though that would be nice. All I want to be able to do is say delete this. Can I delete a private message from your database? Can I delete your record of a status I wrote from your database? Can I delete access logs from a website that was using a FB pixel from your database?

lwh 7y ago

Does this block react CDN hits?

sandeshd 7y ago

What will happen to people who are already opted out of ads based on data from facebook business partners.

nappy 7y ago

Facebook just happens to get sent data... yeah, more like Facebook buys data. And invests heavily in tools to make it easier for its customers to send Facebook data.