10 ms·

CoreCLR is now open source

709 points by xyziemba 12y ago

_random_ 12y ago
If they could add native C#(+HTML5) support to Spartan now that would be amazing...
Touche 12y ago
And they have Issues and Pull Requests turned on.
- 4ad 12y ago
  Can you turn off pull requests?
  - calpaterson 12y ago
    No, you can only turn off issues
- jongalloway2 12y ago
  Some pull requests have already been merged, e.g. https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/35 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/35
frik 12y ago
Next step, WinForms
- sz4kerto 12y ago
  I don't think they are going to open-source legacy stuff that they want people to forget. .Net, ASP.NET, CLR -- all of it is technology they want to keep.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    I wish. One of the projects I am currently working on, a greenfield application, requires WindowsForms for reasons I cannot expose here.
    - daigoba66 12y ago
      WinForms is a pretty great UI toolkit. It's easy to use, fast, and requires very little system resources.
      - fsloth 12y ago
        This. It might appear a bit clunky at first sight, and it might not provide the shiniest eye candy out of the box but in terms of development velocity to get something practical done - provided it is combined with the tooling in Visual Studio - it's really nice.
        jaked89 12y ago
        Velocity? Only for simple, boring UI. Any non-standard control requires GDI+ rendering, which is not very maintainable. WPF offers a far superior composition ability.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        I love using simple boring UIs because they are predictable. WPF encourages non-standard custom drawn stuff that only serves to distract from usability in my opinion. WPF also still has weird focus rectangles and font issues.
        fsloth 12y ago
        I agree I would not suggest doing anything non-standard with it. And yes, it looks dated and ugly. But in some places visual appearance of widgets is not that important. Often, boring UI:s are good. The tool should fade into the background and let the user focus on getting her work done. While I love shiny things the real world accepts good enough solutions that are economic to develop. Theoretically I just adore WPF:s scenegraph oriented paradigm since it feels the right way but... I've observed that for a large projects practically it needs a lot of work to get anything usefull done compared to forms. Perhaps the overall architecture is a bit big-org oriented where every tiny widget will have its own development team. Which is understandable but means for simple UI:s WPF might be a lot more expensive. I haven't done anything massive with it myself but have just observed a few projects from my work. I hope there are counterexamples.
- mwcampbell 12y ago
  I think it would be more interesting and useful to have the source for WPF, given that WPF is an actual GUI toolkit implementing its own widgets, whereas WinForms is basically just a wrapper around Win32.
  - jameshart 12y ago
    Unfortunately, I think a lot of the interesting parts of WPF are just wrappers around DirectX APIs.
    - Aleman360 12y ago
      That's just for rendering. All the controls and data-binding mechanisms are straight-up C#. For example: http://referencesource.microsoft.com/#PresentationFramework/Framework/System/Windows/Controls/Slider.cs,6532ecbe410bb4ae http://referencesource.microsoft.com/#PresentationFramework/...
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    And WPF seems pretty slick. I've only used it as a developer who has little UI skill, but it seemed to be far better than other UI kits. The design seemed rather coherent. Too bad performance and rendering issues hurt it for the first half decade of its life.
  - grokys 12y ago
    Just a quick plug then for my own project: https://github.com/grokys/Perspex/ https://github.com/grokys/Perspex/
- edwinnathaniel 12y ago
  I'm still waiting for a good cross-platform UI toolkit with good tools and ecosystems around it without resorting to C++ (Qt) or JS approach (atom/nw). C++ tooling is behind its time (CMake, no dependency management) and JS approach seems kludgy right now. Java was pretty close (JDK .. or NetBeans, support packaging to Windows or Mac AppStore) but the UI component for OSX is not pleasing and would be nice if it can produce something for Ubuntu/Redhat at least (don't care Arch or the rest at the moment). Basically I want something better than what Oracle Java has to offer today :) PS: I would require a great IDE, unit-testing/automation-testing, good scriptable build (Maven/Gradle style, not Ant/NAnt/MSBuild).
  - damian2000 12y ago
    Sounds like the only thing that would fit your bill would be IntelliJ IDEA using Java bindings for either wxWidgets, Qt or GTK+?
  - ziahamza 12y ago
    I agree. Xamarin guys have done a great job at delivering cross platform UI, making C# first class on most platform, but their API's still lag behind .Net official framework and are stuck to the .Net 4.0 era.
  - mike_hearn 12y ago
    You should look at JavaFX. I just finished an app based on it. It's the official replacement for Swing and is quite WPF like in nature (scene graph oriented, etc). Although there are skins that can make it look native on each platform, I didn't bother with this for my app. Trying to match native on a cross platform app is a fools errand. A few months after you ship your app, the OS developers will decide to reskin everything and anything not using their native toolkit will look out of place. So my app takes its inspiration from Twitter Bootstrap and just doesn't even try to look native. You can skin JavaFX with CSS so it's quite easy to match the look, at least in some ways. Nobody has complained and quite a few people said the app looks great. I would definitely do this again for my future apps. Pick a nice design that isn't native to any platform in particular, and people won't hate you for it. BTW Java now comes with a packager tool that makes self contained native installers which don't depend on the user having Java installed. Deployment is a lot more practical these days.
- akoeplinger 12y ago
  I ported Mono's WinForms implementation to .NET Core some time ago as a proof of concept: https://twitter.com/akoeplinger/status/546832629010817024 https://twitter.com/akoeplinger/status/546832629010817024 Would be great if MS open-sourced WinForms as well so we could fill in the gaps.
- lubos 12y ago
  Java Swing turned out to be a failure because it didn't look native on any platform. I would recommend something like Eto.Forms (https://github.com/picoe/Eto https://github.com/picoe/Eto) which is an abstraction over native GUI toolkits (WPF, WinForms, GTK+, Cocoa) Works really well and mature.
  - jvickers 12y ago
    My impression of Java UI components was that they looked boring and old-fashioned. It's a subjective judgement, but I guess others would have thought that way too. If Java Swing or other parts of the Java UI toolkit looked better than many native GUIs then there would have been more interest.
    - ptx 12y ago
      Yup, it was different and it was worse. And full of bugs, particularly w.r.t. focus-handling, which even Sun's own (presumably correctly written) Swing applications were afflicted with.
    - pron 12y ago
      There has been a lot of interest. There are thousands upon thousands of big applications out there built on Swing, you just don't use them, because Java has never caught on in desktop consumer apps. But JetBrains' IDEs are based on Swing, as is NetBeans, and they look great.
      - tracker1 12y ago
        I think looking great is entirely subjective.. I think that the JetBrains' IDEs look horrible... the skinning as it stands is inconsistent at best. They are cross platform.. but even looking like something built with bootstrap+fontawesome would look better. VS looks awesome (tends to run like ass though) by comparison.
        pron 12y ago
        NetBeans looks very native.
yellowapple 12y ago
MIT-licensed, even.
- unknownian 12y ago
  I wonder why they would do this. In fact, I don't see the benefit of MIT over Apache except for compatibility with GPLv2. But I'm definitely not an expert, if someone would want to explain.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    Parts of Mono are GPLv2, maybe they want Mono (and thus Xamarin) to have the freedom to use as much of this as possible.
    - laichzeit0 12y ago
      The irony that Microsoft would one day release code under the MIT license which would make it possible for Mono to benefit (but not the other way around because of GPL) is hilarious. How the wheel of freedom has turned. * disclaimer: yeah I know the Stallman crowd have their own particular definition of "freedom" that is vastly different and would disagree
  - tedunangst 12y ago
    Less words.
    - yellowapple 12y ago
      To be honest, that's actually one of the big motivators for me using MIT-style licenses (or BSD or ISC or somesuch) for a lot of my own code. I'm so accustomed to 525600-page EULAs that I cringe as soon as I see a license that exceeds one screenful, and I figure there are plenty of others who do the same. Plus there are the other benifits (especially when it comes to free software projects being able to reuse that code without worrying so much about license compatibility).
  - 12y ago
jader201 12y ago
Direct link to repo: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr
benreic 12y ago
Quick link to what I think is the most interesting class in the CLR: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/mscorlib/src/System/String.cs https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/mscorlib/s...
- simfoo 12y ago
  From their GetHashCode(): // We want to ensure we can change our hash function daily. // This is perfectly fine as long as you don't persist the // value from GetHashCode to disk or count on String A // hashing before string B. Those are bugs in your code. hash1 ^= ThisAssembly.DailyBuildNumber; I'd love to hear the story behind this one :D
  - daeken 12y ago
    I don't know the story, but the logic behind it is simple: If you want to guarantee no one depends on GetHashCode staying static between runs of an application, change it all the time.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Also is it not for hash collision protection, which can end up hurting the runtime of many algorithms, causing a DoS?
      - plorkyeran 12y ago
        No, it has no effect on hash collisions. Two hashes that are equal before being xored with the daily build number will still be equal afterwards.
      - porges 12y ago
        It won't help much there as the number is static for a particular build.
      - munificent 12y ago
        The hash randomization for security is above this part of the code.
sz4kerto 12y ago
Interesting commit: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/commit/90ef39bc3c9886e796748a65b4e530253190aeff https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/commit/90ef39bc3c9886e7967... "This change fixes a potential problem in unwinding on Linux"
- wtetzner 12y ago
  Interesting quote from README.md: "You can 'watch' the repo to see Linux and Mac support being added over the next few months."
  - johnduhart 12y ago
    They already seem to be compiling for Linux on Jenkins: http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/view/dotnet_coreclr/ http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/view/dotnet_coreclr/
- Aleman360 12y ago
  From the article: Today, .NET Core builds and runs on Windows. We will be adding Linux and Mac implementations of platform-specific components over the next few months. We already have some Linux-specific code in .NET Core, but we’re really just getting started on our ports. We wanted to open up the code first, so that we could all enjoy the cross-platform journey from the outset.
j_baker 12y ago
This is on github. Does this mean that MS is abandoning CodePlex?
- simcop2387 12y ago
  From other articles[1] it looks that way. Really makes you think how big github has become. [1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/15/codeplex_repository_out_of_favour_as_microsoft_moves_major_projects_to_github/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/15/codeplex_repository_...
  - carussell 12y ago
    HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869401
  - _nedR 12y ago
    To me Github has become a social networking website for developers (bear with me). As a social networking website its sort of half-way between Instagram (instead of sharing pictures you share code) and LinkedIn (It serves as a programmer's online profile ). As a social-networking website, the most important thing that defines it is the number of users. You could publish your code on Codeplex or Bitbucket, but you would be simply limiting your reach.
- hbbio 12y ago
  Probably the same way Google is now shifting to https://github.com/google https://github.com/google instead of its own Google Code!
stevecalifornia 12y ago
I am really interested to see what happens once ASP.Net is running on Linux. C# and Visual Studio are fantastic, mature tools and I think a lot of developers would enjoy using them whereas they might be hesitant at the moment due to OS lock-in on the code they are writing.
- ossreality 12y ago
  It works right now on Mono. There are loads of example projects on GitHub.
- Raphael 12y ago
  Could/Does Visual Studio run in Linux?
  - jerleth 12y ago
    No, which is _the_ reason I am on windows.
  - artmageddon 12y ago
    Not yet. MonoDevelop is the closest you'll get at the moment.
    - luisrudge 12y ago
      no need for that. Just use your favorite editor with omnisharp[1] [1] http://www.omnisharp.net/ http://www.omnisharp.net/
      - bigdubs 12y ago
        if you can attach and debug a process through sublime text, then maybe. as it stands there is no real replacement for visual studio (save maybe xamarin studio / mono develop)
      - failed_ideas 12y ago
        I still haven't gotten it working in vim consistently enough to switch to the mac for development. When it does work, the lag makes it too slow, doesn't really allow for method discovery like intellisense, Ctags and omnicomplete still get better mileage for me.
dkarapetyan 12y ago
I really like the new Microsoft. Ballmer was really trying to run the company into the ground.
- unfamiliar 12y ago
  I'm not sure those two statements are related. I don't see how having .NET open sourced is directly effecting Microsoft's bottom line. I like getting free stuff too, but that doesn't man it is necessarily profitable for the company.
  - azakai 12y ago
    First of all, it's not just opening up .NET. It's also many other cool things Microsoft has been doing: Linux on Azure, TypeScript, etc. etc. Regarding .NET, it is likely it will benefit Microsoft significantly. First, because Microsoft would not do it without strong reasons. Second, we can guess at those reasons: Microsoft wants to grow its developer ecosystem. .NET has been limited due to being Windows-focused. Opening it up makes sense. (Yes, Mono exists, but the .NET cross-platform experience still wasn't good enough. Not necessarily Mono's fault, but regardless, opening .NET can solve this (possibly at a cost to Mono).)
  - mdaniel 12y ago
    IMHO, it's the "open" part and less the "source" part. I believe a lot of projects were reluctant to jump on the Mono train because they expected it would be steamrolled (on purpose or just through sheer manpower) by the .NET. However, if everyone is building on top of the same CoreCLR, it's possible that fear might subside. I doubt it will ever go away because Microsoft will continue to keep some APIs close to the vest. If it's possible to transpile either Java source or better Java class files to a CLR assembly, even some of the community momentum that Java has might turn into a benefit for .NET, too.
    - wtetzner 12y ago
      I think this is what you're looking for: http://www.ikvm.net/ http://www.ikvm.net/ In particular: http://sourceforge.net/p/ikvm/wiki/Ikvmc/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ikvm/wiki/Ikvmc/
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- deleted 12y ago
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giancarlostoro 12y ago
I wonder how this would aid projects such as IronPython and IronRuby if at all, just out of curiosity. My only dream is that they eventually have VS on Linux.
- ianlevesque 12y ago
  Probably the most immediate winner is Unity. They've been stuck on an ancient version of Mono because they did not want to license tech from Xamarin. They can now have MS derived runtimes free.
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    Wow, didn't even think about that. Huge step for the Unity project.
  - numo16 12y ago
    Unity has been developing their own runtime for a while now to get away from the mono licensing costs of using a new version. I'll be interested to see how they react to Microsoft open-sourcing a lot of stuff they might have been able to use.
- fsloth 12y ago
  In terms of velocity and trifty syntax F# is almost as nice as these dynamic languages. It can even be used for scripting.
- Sanddancer 12y ago
  Not much, I imagine. .net's been supporting languages like that for a long time through the Dynamic Language Runtime. Although, if more people use Iron(Python|Ruby|Scheme), the underlying runtimes, and quite possibly the DLR itself could see some code contribution loving.
- Rapzid 12y ago
  I'm hoping ClojureCLR gets some more attention now too.
- 12y ago
Nelkins 12y ago
I would be curious to see the effects of completely open-sourcing Windows. Businesses would continue to use it, because it's Microsoft and they want enterprise support. I think it would get even more love than it already does from the development community. Piracy of Windows is already rampant, so they're not really in a worse position from that (plus I think that most people who can pay for Windows do so already). Foreign governments who are concerned about NSA backdoors would have their fears allayed. Is there any way it could seriously damage their business model?
- otterley 12y ago
  As a practical matter, I doubt that they can. There's probably quite a lot of third-party code intertwined with Windows itself (especially in the device drivers that ship with it) that's subject to strict redistribution and publication restrictions.
  - bigdubs 12y ago
    Device drivers can be divorced from the core os.
    - mackwic 12y ago
      They are divorced from the core os. Windows is a microkernel and the drivers run in userland since vista. It's a completely different matters.
      - tormeh 12y ago
        It's not really a microkernel, but a hybrid. Isn't the drivers the only thing that runs in userland?
        mackwic 12y ago
        I don't think so, the windows manager is also in userland. It's not the most documented thing, and it depends on what are "the things" of windows, there are many. :)
ixtli 12y ago
Even more reason to port all of your C/C++ code to CMake. I'm excited to see upstream contribution from MS.
- stinos 12y ago
  Exactly, CMake getting more traction like this should be good. I know quite some devs who're like CMake? Why don't you just use good old Makefiles? and then struggle with it's syntax and/or fail to provide working Windows or even Mac builds of their software simply because they stick with plain makefiles. (don't get me wrong, they work fine, just not so much for cross-platform projects)
  - stefantalpalaru 12y ago
    The alternative is not plain Makefiles, but Autotools: https://autotools.io/index.html https://autotools.io/index.html
    - mackwic 12y ago
      AH ! That was a nice joke, have my upvote. :) For the curious: http://voices.canonical.com/jussi.pakkanen/2011/09/13/autotools/ http://voices.canonical.com/jussi.pakkanen/2011/09/13/autoto... (tldr: autotools won't work on windows, you need a shell emulator, like cygwin, and gcc) Premake is nice, also. But CMakes tend to work better for a big project.
      - stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        > a shell emulator, like cygwin Your joke is much better. Have an upvote ;-)
fsloth 12y ago
De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. What the hell happened. It's like Skeletor became He-Mans best buddy all of a sudden and started helping everyone. I'm thrilled. The MS tooling is really, really good and the only thing stopping me from committing to the stack fully has been it's lack of open sourceness (vendor lock in is still feasible but getting less of an issue). Edit: Pardon the fanboyism but I've tried a set of feasible Non-MS language options for my particular domain and F# in Visual Studio beats for me, my particular use case and coding style Scala, Clojure, Ruby, Python, Haskell, "browser technologies"...
- doodpants 12y ago
  > De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. Kind of ironic, what with Ballmer's "Developers developers developers..." spiel.
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    Indeed. For someone who understood the problem, Ballmer sure missed out on understanding the solution.
    - JeremyMorgan 12y ago
      Depends on how you look at it. Microsoft has been good to developers since the Gates area. They always understood the importance of developers for their OS, as long as you pay for the privilege. The biggest difference now is all the stuff they give out for free.
      - klibertp 12y ago
        > The biggest difference now is all the stuff they give out for free. No, it doesn't actually matter, it's not a financial issue. Open sourcing their libs is good because it gives developers access to the sources of libraries which they use daily. This in turn will make debugging much easier and will also help with understanding what is actually happening when you call some function. I left MS-land a decade ago, but when I worked with MS tools I'd have gladly paid serious money for access to the source code (that was in C++, I hear debugging is easier in C#), but that wasn't an option. Now they offer access to the source code, which is the important part, and for free, which is kind of nice but very important.
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phkahler 12y ago
It's actually Free Software, not just open source. MIT license.
- iwwr 12y ago
  "Free software" has a narrower meaning in the context of the four freedoms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition
  - tpush 12y ago
    And if you follow your link, you'll see that the MIT license grants all these freedoms and is thus considered to be a Free Software license.
- tree_of_item 12y ago
  Eh, most proponents of free software would in fact call this "just open source": MIT isn't copyleft.
  - adrianmalacoda 12y ago
    Most proponents of free software would argue that the difference between free software and open source is a philosophical one, not a technical one [0]. Copyleft is preferable, but not mandatory, for a free software license; the most widely used non-copyleft free software licenses are recognized by such by the FSF [1]. [0] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.h... [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
    - tree_of_item 12y ago
      Sure, but the post I replied to "corrected" the term open source to free software, which is strange for an MIT licensed project.
- adl 12y ago
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pmontra 12y ago
I wonder how this strategy is going to affect the bottom line of Microsoft. People writing with CLR languages are deploying web apps mainly (or only) to Windows now. They're going to have an option to deploy to Linux soon. This means less revenues from OS and DB licenses, so it looks bad. Do they expect a large number of people leaving Java, Node, Python, Ruby and picking up C# because of the Linux deploys? Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. More desktop licenses could make up for lost server ones but if I googled well a server costs more than a desktop. Or maybe they're playing a longer game: open source as much as they can, hope some network effect builds up, find out how to profit from it. In the medium term they might be losing money tough. Am I missing something obvious?
- dkarapetyan 12y ago
  As far as statically typed languages go C# is actually great. If I had the option of using it instead of some gimped version of it then hands down that would be my language of choice.
- adrianlmm 12y ago
  > Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. No, they can code in Linux using Vim if they want.
  - xanadohnt 12y ago
    Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Win10 is practically free or totally free (if upgrading from a valid Win8).
    - aikah 12y ago
      well,still waiting for SQL Server (pro) to follow that trend... I guess I'll wait a long time.
      - 12y ago
cm2187 12y ago
Should we expect more zero days against .net as a short term effect of the source code becoming available?
- gtirloni 12y ago
  Very few people here are qualified to inspect the code in such short notice and look for dangerous code. I think any answer to this question is going to be pure speculation. Since it's very easy to decompile .NET binaries and Windows has been a traditional place for crackers and what not, I think that code base is very well inspected already.
  - cm2187 12y ago
    But I don't think the CLR is in .Net.
- wglb 12y ago
  Open source is no guard against zero days.
saosebastiao 12y ago
So I'm still a little fuzzy as to what this means. Is this basically the same thing that Mono is trying to provide? Would it now be possible to have the F# front end link to the CoreCLR backend on Linux?
- Naknut 12y ago
  Thats kind if it. CoreCLR is the runtime that all .NET languages run in. CoreCLR doesn't run on Linux yet but they are working on it and once it dose all .NET languages (Including F#) should run on Linux.
- tracker1 12y ago
  I'm pretty sure mono is intending to replace parts of itself with coreclr...
  - thinkpad20 12y ago
    My understanding was that Mono was the "open source CLR." What parts of Mono would this not cover? Once this project gets ported, what barriers to running .NET code on Linux/Mac/etc with performance and reliability comparable to Windows would remain?
    - DigitalJack 12y ago
      Libraries and Frameworks that are MS Only at the moment. I haven't been keeping track of what they have open sourced, so my point may be moot already.
lukasm 12y ago
hmm github can't preview cpp files https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/gc/gc.cpp https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/gc/gc.cpp
- ploxiln 12y ago
  github suppresses views of syntax-highlighted files that have too many lines or too-long lines. They make browsers crawl or crash (too many elements...) and they're not useful for humans to try to view on a web page anyway. I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines...
  - larsberg 12y ago
    > I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines... IIRC, it was originally machine-generated... from LISP code written by David Bacon, under contract from the then-GC owner Patrick Dussud.
    - kinghajj 12y ago
      Holy crap, do you have a link that explains that in more detail? That sounds amazing.
      - carussell 12y ago
        Here go: http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Patrick-Dussud-Garbage-Collection-Past-Present-and-Future http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Patrick-Dussud-Gar...
    - Cyph0n 12y ago
      I'm sorry, what? That sounds awesome.
    - lispm 12y ago
      http://blogs.msdn.com/b/patrick_dussud/archive/2006/11/21/how-it-all-started-aka-the-birth-of-the-clr.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/patrick_dussud/archive/2006/11/21/ho...
josh2600 12y ago
I made a snapshot of a CentOS 6 box with CoreCLR cloned if anyone wants to play with it: https://www.terminal.com/snapshot/f34341a1b529a9141529cda0067678770dbd1894a247a33854cbf0907247819a https://www.terminal.com/snapshot/f34341a1b529a9141529cda006... Note: You'll need a terminal account to boot it, but it only takes 10 seconds to come online once you do that.
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 12y ago
test
felixrieseberg 12y ago
This post is a few hours old, but I just want to put it out there: We're hiring OPEN SOURCE ENGINEERS. I'm one and our job is awesome[1]. Please get in touch with me if you're interested[2]. [1]: http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ [2]: felix.rieseberg@microsoft.com
felixrieseberg 12y ago
This post is a few hours old, but I just want to put it out there: We're hiring OPEN SOURCE ENGINEERS. I'm one and our job is awesome[1]. Please get in touch with me if you're interested[2]. [1]: http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ [2]: felix.rieseberg@microsoft.com
vinceyuan 12y ago
Great, but it's too late. .NET will still be the Windows-only technology. (I do know Mono) .NET becomes too big and too complex. I don't think it's easy to make it cross-platform.
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NicoJuicy 12y ago
This has all been set in motion during Ballmer.. Not from Ballmer himselve, but from inside out ( a lot of good employees there). Now one of the guys pushing it, is CEO of Microsoft and we are finally seeing a (real) difference.. I joined the MS community a long time ago and this is (again) a heart warming addition! Good job Microsoft, you're a bit late to the party. But no doubt, the ROI will show sooner or later! ;-)
josteink 12y ago
Noteworthy from the source: Microsoft does NOT use (unmergable) SLN-files for their projects, but instead scripts-msbuild invocations against specific projects: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L140 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L140 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L159 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L159 I guess this explains why they saw no need to fix the somewhat broken SLN file-format in the first place, but actually did something about project-files. They don't share their customers pain on this point.
- pmelendez 12y ago
  As a wild guess I would say that using msbuild-scripts is the way to go if you have automatic builds in place.
Halienja 12y ago
So I am not sure what this means to the end user but as another reader pointed out, Google and other companies in future could use .Net/C# as part of their mobile architecture. You could host .net sites on OSX or Linux, test them on a Mac. What else?
camkego 12y ago
Mixed mode assemblies on Linux?? Has anyone heard or seen whether MSFT is planning to support this?

709 points by xyziemba 12y ago

_random_ 12y ago

If they could add native C#(+HTML5) support to Spartan now that would be amazing...

Touche 12y ago

And they have Issues and Pull Requests turned on.

4ad 12y ago
Can you turn off pull requests?
- calpaterson 12y ago
  No, you can only turn off issues
jongalloway2 12y ago
Some pull requests have already been merged, e.g. https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/35 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/pull/35

frik 12y ago

Next step, WinForms

sz4kerto 12y ago
I don't think they are going to open-source legacy stuff that they want people to forget. .Net, ASP.NET, CLR -- all of it is technology they want to keep.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  I wish. One of the projects I am currently working on, a greenfield application, requires WindowsForms for reasons I cannot expose here.
  - daigoba66 12y ago
    WinForms is a pretty great UI toolkit. It's easy to use, fast, and requires very little system resources.
    - fsloth 12y ago
      This. It might appear a bit clunky at first sight, and it might not provide the shiniest eye candy out of the box but in terms of development velocity to get something practical done - provided it is combined with the tooling in Visual Studio - it's really nice.
      - jaked89 12y ago
        Velocity? Only for simple, boring UI. Any non-standard control requires GDI+ rendering, which is not very maintainable. WPF offers a far superior composition ability.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        I love using simple boring UIs because they are predictable. WPF encourages non-standard custom drawn stuff that only serves to distract from usability in my opinion. WPF also still has weird focus rectangles and font issues.
        fsloth 12y ago
        I agree I would not suggest doing anything non-standard with it. And yes, it looks dated and ugly. But in some places visual appearance of widgets is not that important. Often, boring UI:s are good. The tool should fade into the background and let the user focus on getting her work done. While I love shiny things the real world accepts good enough solutions that are economic to develop. Theoretically I just adore WPF:s scenegraph oriented paradigm since it feels the right way but... I've observed that for a large projects practically it needs a lot of work to get anything usefull done compared to forms. Perhaps the overall architecture is a bit big-org oriented where every tiny widget will have its own development team. Which is understandable but means for simple UI:s WPF might be a lot more expensive. I haven't done anything massive with it myself but have just observed a few projects from my work. I hope there are counterexamples.
mwcampbell 12y ago
I think it would be more interesting and useful to have the source for WPF, given that WPF is an actual GUI toolkit implementing its own widgets, whereas WinForms is basically just a wrapper around Win32.
- jameshart 12y ago
  Unfortunately, I think a lot of the interesting parts of WPF are just wrappers around DirectX APIs.
  - Aleman360 12y ago
    That's just for rendering. All the controls and data-binding mechanisms are straight-up C#. For example: http://referencesource.microsoft.com/#PresentationFramework/Framework/System/Windows/Controls/Slider.cs,6532ecbe410bb4ae http://referencesource.microsoft.com/#PresentationFramework/...
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  And WPF seems pretty slick. I've only used it as a developer who has little UI skill, but it seemed to be far better than other UI kits. The design seemed rather coherent. Too bad performance and rendering issues hurt it for the first half decade of its life.
- grokys 12y ago
  Just a quick plug then for my own project: https://github.com/grokys/Perspex/ https://github.com/grokys/Perspex/
edwinnathaniel 12y ago
I'm still waiting for a good cross-platform UI toolkit with good tools and ecosystems around it without resorting to C++ (Qt) or JS approach (atom/nw). C++ tooling is behind its time (CMake, no dependency management) and JS approach seems kludgy right now. Java was pretty close (JDK .. or NetBeans, support packaging to Windows or Mac AppStore) but the UI component for OSX is not pleasing and would be nice if it can produce something for Ubuntu/Redhat at least (don't care Arch or the rest at the moment). Basically I want something better than what Oracle Java has to offer today :) PS: I would require a great IDE, unit-testing/automation-testing, good scriptable build (Maven/Gradle style, not Ant/NAnt/MSBuild).
- damian2000 12y ago
  Sounds like the only thing that would fit your bill would be IntelliJ IDEA using Java bindings for either wxWidgets, Qt or GTK+?
- ziahamza 12y ago
  I agree. Xamarin guys have done a great job at delivering cross platform UI, making C# first class on most platform, but their API's still lag behind .Net official framework and are stuck to the .Net 4.0 era.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  You should look at JavaFX. I just finished an app based on it. It's the official replacement for Swing and is quite WPF like in nature (scene graph oriented, etc). Although there are skins that can make it look native on each platform, I didn't bother with this for my app. Trying to match native on a cross platform app is a fools errand. A few months after you ship your app, the OS developers will decide to reskin everything and anything not using their native toolkit will look out of place. So my app takes its inspiration from Twitter Bootstrap and just doesn't even try to look native. You can skin JavaFX with CSS so it's quite easy to match the look, at least in some ways. Nobody has complained and quite a few people said the app looks great. I would definitely do this again for my future apps. Pick a nice design that isn't native to any platform in particular, and people won't hate you for it. BTW Java now comes with a packager tool that makes self contained native installers which don't depend on the user having Java installed. Deployment is a lot more practical these days.
akoeplinger 12y ago
I ported Mono's WinForms implementation to .NET Core some time ago as a proof of concept: https://twitter.com/akoeplinger/status/546832629010817024 https://twitter.com/akoeplinger/status/546832629010817024 Would be great if MS open-sourced WinForms as well so we could fill in the gaps.
lubos 12y ago
Java Swing turned out to be a failure because it didn't look native on any platform. I would recommend something like Eto.Forms (https://github.com/picoe/Eto https://github.com/picoe/Eto) which is an abstraction over native GUI toolkits (WPF, WinForms, GTK+, Cocoa) Works really well and mature.
- jvickers 12y ago
  My impression of Java UI components was that they looked boring and old-fashioned. It's a subjective judgement, but I guess others would have thought that way too. If Java Swing or other parts of the Java UI toolkit looked better than many native GUIs then there would have been more interest.
  - ptx 12y ago
    Yup, it was different and it was worse. And full of bugs, particularly w.r.t. focus-handling, which even Sun's own (presumably correctly written) Swing applications were afflicted with.
  - pron 12y ago
    There has been a lot of interest. There are thousands upon thousands of big applications out there built on Swing, you just don't use them, because Java has never caught on in desktop consumer apps. But JetBrains' IDEs are based on Swing, as is NetBeans, and they look great.
    - tracker1 12y ago
      I think looking great is entirely subjective.. I think that the JetBrains' IDEs look horrible... the skinning as it stands is inconsistent at best. They are cross platform.. but even looking like something built with bootstrap+fontawesome would look better. VS looks awesome (tends to run like ass though) by comparison.
      - pron 12y ago
        NetBeans looks very native.

yellowapple 12y ago

MIT-licensed, even.

unknownian 12y ago
I wonder why they would do this. In fact, I don't see the benefit of MIT over Apache except for compatibility with GPLv2. But I'm definitely not an expert, if someone would want to explain.
- cwyers 12y ago
  Parts of Mono are GPLv2, maybe they want Mono (and thus Xamarin) to have the freedom to use as much of this as possible.
  - laichzeit0 12y ago
    The irony that Microsoft would one day release code under the MIT license which would make it possible for Mono to benefit (but not the other way around because of GPL) is hilarious. How the wheel of freedom has turned. * disclaimer: yeah I know the Stallman crowd have their own particular definition of "freedom" that is vastly different and would disagree
- tedunangst 12y ago
  Less words.
  - yellowapple 12y ago
    To be honest, that's actually one of the big motivators for me using MIT-style licenses (or BSD or ISC or somesuch) for a lot of my own code. I'm so accustomed to 525600-page EULAs that I cringe as soon as I see a license that exceeds one screenful, and I figure there are plenty of others who do the same. Plus there are the other benifits (especially when it comes to free software projects being able to reuse that code without worrying so much about license compatibility).
- 12y ago

jader201 12y ago

Direct link to repo: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr

benreic 12y ago

Quick link to what I think is the most interesting class in the CLR: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/mscorlib/src/System/String.cs https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/mscorlib/s...

simfoo 12y ago
From their GetHashCode(): // We want to ensure we can change our hash function daily. // This is perfectly fine as long as you don't persist the // value from GetHashCode to disk or count on String A // hashing before string B. Those are bugs in your code. hash1 ^= ThisAssembly.DailyBuildNumber; I'd love to hear the story behind this one :D
- daeken 12y ago
  I don't know the story, but the logic behind it is simple: If you want to guarantee no one depends on GetHashCode staying static between runs of an application, change it all the time.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    Also is it not for hash collision protection, which can end up hurting the runtime of many algorithms, causing a DoS?
    - plorkyeran 12y ago
      No, it has no effect on hash collisions. Two hashes that are equal before being xored with the daily build number will still be equal afterwards.
    - porges 12y ago
      It won't help much there as the number is static for a particular build.
    - munificent 12y ago
      The hash randomization for security is above this part of the code.

sz4kerto 12y ago

Interesting commit: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/commit/90ef39bc3c9886e796748a65b4e530253190aeff https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/commit/90ef39bc3c9886e7967... "This change fixes a potential problem in unwinding on Linux"

wtetzner 12y ago
Interesting quote from README.md: "You can 'watch' the repo to see Linux and Mac support being added over the next few months."
- johnduhart 12y ago
  They already seem to be compiling for Linux on Jenkins: http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/view/dotnet_coreclr/ http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/view/dotnet_coreclr/
Aleman360 12y ago
From the article: Today, .NET Core builds and runs on Windows. We will be adding Linux and Mac implementations of platform-specific components over the next few months. We already have some Linux-specific code in .NET Core, but we’re really just getting started on our ports. We wanted to open up the code first, so that we could all enjoy the cross-platform journey from the outset.

j_baker 12y ago

This is on github. Does this mean that MS is abandoning CodePlex?

simcop2387 12y ago
From other articles[1] it looks that way. Really makes you think how big github has become. [1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/15/codeplex_repository_out_of_favour_as_microsoft_moves_major_projects_to_github/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/15/codeplex_repository_...
- carussell 12y ago
  HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8869401
- _nedR 12y ago
  To me Github has become a social networking website for developers (bear with me). As a social networking website its sort of half-way between Instagram (instead of sharing pictures you share code) and LinkedIn (It serves as a programmer's online profile ). As a social-networking website, the most important thing that defines it is the number of users. You could publish your code on Codeplex or Bitbucket, but you would be simply limiting your reach.
hbbio 12y ago
Probably the same way Google is now shifting to https://github.com/google https://github.com/google instead of its own Google Code!

stevecalifornia 12y ago

I am really interested to see what happens once ASP.Net is running on Linux. C# and Visual Studio are fantastic, mature tools and I think a lot of developers would enjoy using them whereas they might be hesitant at the moment due to OS lock-in on the code they are writing.

ossreality 12y ago
It works right now on Mono. There are loads of example projects on GitHub.
Raphael 12y ago
Could/Does Visual Studio run in Linux?
- jerleth 12y ago
  No, which is _the_ reason I am on windows.
- artmageddon 12y ago
  Not yet. MonoDevelop is the closest you'll get at the moment.
  - luisrudge 12y ago
    no need for that. Just use your favorite editor with omnisharp[1] [1] http://www.omnisharp.net/ http://www.omnisharp.net/
    - bigdubs 12y ago
      if you can attach and debug a process through sublime text, then maybe. as it stands there is no real replacement for visual studio (save maybe xamarin studio / mono develop)
    - failed_ideas 12y ago
      I still haven't gotten it working in vim consistently enough to switch to the mac for development. When it does work, the lag makes it too slow, doesn't really allow for method discovery like intellisense, Ctags and omnicomplete still get better mileage for me.

dkarapetyan 12y ago

I really like the new Microsoft. Ballmer was really trying to run the company into the ground.

unfamiliar 12y ago
I'm not sure those two statements are related. I don't see how having .NET open sourced is directly effecting Microsoft's bottom line. I like getting free stuff too, but that doesn't man it is necessarily profitable for the company.
- azakai 12y ago
  First of all, it's not just opening up .NET. It's also many other cool things Microsoft has been doing: Linux on Azure, TypeScript, etc. etc. Regarding .NET, it is likely it will benefit Microsoft significantly. First, because Microsoft would not do it without strong reasons. Second, we can guess at those reasons: Microsoft wants to grow its developer ecosystem. .NET has been limited due to being Windows-focused. Opening it up makes sense. (Yes, Mono exists, but the .NET cross-platform experience still wasn't good enough. Not necessarily Mono's fault, but regardless, opening .NET can solve this (possibly at a cost to Mono).)
- mdaniel 12y ago
  IMHO, it's the "open" part and less the "source" part. I believe a lot of projects were reluctant to jump on the Mono train because they expected it would be steamrolled (on purpose or just through sheer manpower) by the .NET. However, if everyone is building on top of the same CoreCLR, it's possible that fear might subside. I doubt it will ever go away because Microsoft will continue to keep some APIs close to the vest. If it's possible to transpile either Java source or better Java class files to a CLR assembly, even some of the community momentum that Java has might turn into a benefit for .NET, too.
  - wtetzner 12y ago
    I think this is what you're looking for: http://www.ikvm.net/ http://www.ikvm.net/ In particular: http://sourceforge.net/p/ikvm/wiki/Ikvmc/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ikvm/wiki/Ikvmc/

deleted 12y ago

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deleted 12y ago
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giancarlostoro 12y ago

I wonder how this would aid projects such as IronPython and IronRuby if at all, just out of curiosity. My only dream is that they eventually have VS on Linux.

ianlevesque 12y ago
Probably the most immediate winner is Unity. They've been stuck on an ancient version of Mono because they did not want to license tech from Xamarin. They can now have MS derived runtimes free.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  Wow, didn't even think about that. Huge step for the Unity project.
- numo16 12y ago
  Unity has been developing their own runtime for a while now to get away from the mono licensing costs of using a new version. I'll be interested to see how they react to Microsoft open-sourcing a lot of stuff they might have been able to use.
fsloth 12y ago
In terms of velocity and trifty syntax F# is almost as nice as these dynamic languages. It can even be used for scripting.
Sanddancer 12y ago
Not much, I imagine. .net's been supporting languages like that for a long time through the Dynamic Language Runtime. Although, if more people use Iron(Python|Ruby|Scheme), the underlying runtimes, and quite possibly the DLR itself could see some code contribution loving.
Rapzid 12y ago
I'm hoping ClojureCLR gets some more attention now too.
12y ago

Nelkins 12y ago

I would be curious to see the effects of completely open-sourcing Windows. Businesses would continue to use it, because it's Microsoft and they want enterprise support. I think it would get even more love than it already does from the development community. Piracy of Windows is already rampant, so they're not really in a worse position from that (plus I think that most people who can pay for Windows do so already). Foreign governments who are concerned about NSA backdoors would have their fears allayed. Is there any way it could seriously damage their business model?

otterley 12y ago
As a practical matter, I doubt that they can. There's probably quite a lot of third-party code intertwined with Windows itself (especially in the device drivers that ship with it) that's subject to strict redistribution and publication restrictions.
- bigdubs 12y ago
  Device drivers can be divorced from the core os.
  - mackwic 12y ago
    They are divorced from the core os. Windows is a microkernel and the drivers run in userland since vista. It's a completely different matters.
    - tormeh 12y ago
      It's not really a microkernel, but a hybrid. Isn't the drivers the only thing that runs in userland?
      - mackwic 12y ago
        I don't think so, the windows manager is also in userland. It's not the most documented thing, and it depends on what are "the things" of windows, there are many. :)

ixtli 12y ago

Even more reason to port all of your C/C++ code to CMake. I'm excited to see upstream contribution from MS.

stinos 12y ago
Exactly, CMake getting more traction like this should be good. I know quite some devs who're like CMake? Why don't you just use good old Makefiles? and then struggle with it's syntax and/or fail to provide working Windows or even Mac builds of their software simply because they stick with plain makefiles. (don't get me wrong, they work fine, just not so much for cross-platform projects)
- stefantalpalaru 12y ago
  The alternative is not plain Makefiles, but Autotools: https://autotools.io/index.html https://autotools.io/index.html
  - mackwic 12y ago
    AH ! That was a nice joke, have my upvote. :) For the curious: http://voices.canonical.com/jussi.pakkanen/2011/09/13/autotools/ http://voices.canonical.com/jussi.pakkanen/2011/09/13/autoto... (tldr: autotools won't work on windows, you need a shell emulator, like cygwin, and gcc) Premake is nice, also. But CMakes tend to work better for a big project.
    - stefantalpalaru 12y ago
      > a shell emulator, like cygwin Your joke is much better. Have an upvote ;-)

fsloth 12y ago

De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. What the hell happened. It's like Skeletor became He-Mans best buddy all of a sudden and started helping everyone. I'm thrilled. The MS tooling is really, really good and the only thing stopping me from committing to the stack fully has been it's lack of open sourceness (vendor lock in is still feasible but getting less of an issue). Edit: Pardon the fanboyism but I've tried a set of feasible Non-MS language options for my particular domain and F# in Visual Studio beats for me, my particular use case and coding style Scala, Clojure, Ruby, Python, Haskell, "browser technologies"...

doodpants 12y ago
> De-Ballmerization and Microsoft is oozing delicious developer love. Kind of ironic, what with Ballmer's "Developers developers developers..." spiel.
- scrollaway 12y ago
  Indeed. For someone who understood the problem, Ballmer sure missed out on understanding the solution.
  - JeremyMorgan 12y ago
    Depends on how you look at it. Microsoft has been good to developers since the Gates area. They always understood the importance of developers for their OS, as long as you pay for the privilege. The biggest difference now is all the stuff they give out for free.
    - klibertp 12y ago
      > The biggest difference now is all the stuff they give out for free. No, it doesn't actually matter, it's not a financial issue. Open sourcing their libs is good because it gives developers access to the sources of libraries which they use daily. This in turn will make debugging much easier and will also help with understanding what is actually happening when you call some function. I left MS-land a decade ago, but when I worked with MS tools I'd have gladly paid serious money for access to the source code (that was in C++, I hear debugging is easier in C#), but that wasn't an option. Now they offer access to the source code, which is the important part, and for free, which is kind of nice but very important.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

phkahler 12y ago

It's actually Free Software, not just open source. MIT license.

iwwr 12y ago
"Free software" has a narrower meaning in the context of the four freedoms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition
- tpush 12y ago
  And if you follow your link, you'll see that the MIT license grants all these freedoms and is thus considered to be a Free Software license.
tree_of_item 12y ago
Eh, most proponents of free software would in fact call this "just open source": MIT isn't copyleft.
- adrianmalacoda 12y ago
  Most proponents of free software would argue that the difference between free software and open source is a philosophical one, not a technical one [0]. Copyleft is preferable, but not mandatory, for a free software license; the most widely used non-copyleft free software licenses are recognized by such by the FSF [1]. [0] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.h... [1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
  - tree_of_item 12y ago
    Sure, but the post I replied to "corrected" the term open source to free software, which is strange for an MIT licensed project.
adl 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

pmontra 12y ago

I wonder how this strategy is going to affect the bottom line of Microsoft. People writing with CLR languages are deploying web apps mainly (or only) to Windows now. They're going to have an option to deploy to Linux soon. This means less revenues from OS and DB licenses, so it looks bad. Do they expect a large number of people leaving Java, Node, Python, Ruby and picking up C# because of the Linux deploys? Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. More desktop licenses could make up for lost server ones but if I googled well a server costs more than a desktop. Or maybe they're playing a longer game: open source as much as they can, hope some network effect builds up, find out how to profit from it. In the medium term they might be losing money tough. Am I missing something obvious?

dkarapetyan 12y ago
As far as statically typed languages go C# is actually great. If I had the option of using it instead of some gimped version of it then hands down that would be my language of choice.
adrianlmm 12y ago
> Those people would probably have to buy Windows and VisualStudio licenses to code in C# in a VM or just ditch Macs for PCs. No, they can code in Linux using Vim if they want.
- xanadohnt 12y ago
  Additionally, full-blown Visual Studio is totally free now. Win10 is practically free or totally free (if upgrading from a valid Win8).
  - aikah 12y ago
    well,still waiting for SQL Server (pro) to follow that trend... I guess I'll wait a long time.
    - 12y ago

cm2187 12y ago

Should we expect more zero days against .net as a short term effect of the source code becoming available?

gtirloni 12y ago
Very few people here are qualified to inspect the code in such short notice and look for dangerous code. I think any answer to this question is going to be pure speculation. Since it's very easy to decompile .NET binaries and Windows has been a traditional place for crackers and what not, I think that code base is very well inspected already.
- cm2187 12y ago
  But I don't think the CLR is in .Net.
wglb 12y ago
Open source is no guard against zero days.

saosebastiao 12y ago

So I'm still a little fuzzy as to what this means. Is this basically the same thing that Mono is trying to provide? Would it now be possible to have the F# front end link to the CoreCLR backend on Linux?

Naknut 12y ago
Thats kind if it. CoreCLR is the runtime that all .NET languages run in. CoreCLR doesn't run on Linux yet but they are working on it and once it dose all .NET languages (Including F#) should run on Linux.
tracker1 12y ago
I'm pretty sure mono is intending to replace parts of itself with coreclr...
- thinkpad20 12y ago
  My understanding was that Mono was the "open source CLR." What parts of Mono would this not cover? Once this project gets ported, what barriers to running .NET code on Linux/Mac/etc with performance and reliability comparable to Windows would remain?
  - DigitalJack 12y ago
    Libraries and Frameworks that are MS Only at the moment. I haven't been keeping track of what they have open sourced, so my point may be moot already.

lukasm 12y ago

hmm github can't preview cpp files https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/gc/gc.cpp https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/src/gc/gc.cpp

ploxiln 12y ago
github suppresses views of syntax-highlighted files that have too many lines or too-long lines. They make browsers crawl or crash (too many elements...) and they're not useful for humans to try to view on a web page anyway. I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines...
- larsberg 12y ago
  > I guess it's no surprise that microsoft software has a human-edited source file that's over 35000 lines... IIRC, it was originally machine-generated... from LISP code written by David Bacon, under contract from the then-GC owner Patrick Dussud.
  - kinghajj 12y ago
    Holy crap, do you have a link that explains that in more detail? That sounds amazing.
    - carussell 12y ago
      Here go: http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Patrick-Dussud-Garbage-Collection-Past-Present-and-Future http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Patrick-Dussud-Gar...
  - Cyph0n 12y ago
    I'm sorry, what? That sounds awesome.
  - lispm 12y ago
    http://blogs.msdn.com/b/patrick_dussud/archive/2006/11/21/how-it-all-started-aka-the-birth-of-the-clr.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/patrick_dussud/archive/2006/11/21/ho...

josh2600 12y ago

I made a snapshot of a CentOS 6 box with CoreCLR cloned if anyone wants to play with it: https://www.terminal.com/snapshot/f34341a1b529a9141529cda0067678770dbd1894a247a33854cbf0907247819a https://www.terminal.com/snapshot/f34341a1b529a9141529cda006... Note: You'll need a terminal account to boot it, but it only takes 10 seconds to come online once you do that.

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 12y ago

test

felixrieseberg 12y ago

This post is a few hours old, but I just want to put it out there: We're hiring OPEN SOURCE ENGINEERS. I'm one and our job is awesome[1]. Please get in touch with me if you're interested[2]. [1]: http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ http://instagram.com/p/yqQe0bK3Bq/ [2]: felix.rieseberg@microsoft.com

felixrieseberg 12y ago

vinceyuan 12y ago

Great, but it's too late. .NET will still be the Windows-only technology. (I do know Mono) .NET becomes too big and too complex. I don't think it's easy to make it cross-platform.

deleted 12y ago

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NicoJuicy 12y ago

This has all been set in motion during Ballmer.. Not from Ballmer himselve, but from inside out ( a lot of good employees there). Now one of the guys pushing it, is CEO of Microsoft and we are finally seeing a (real) difference.. I joined the MS community a long time ago and this is (again) a heart warming addition! Good job Microsoft, you're a bit late to the party. But no doubt, the ROI will show sooner or later! ;-)

josteink 12y ago

Noteworthy from the source: Microsoft does NOT use (unmergable) SLN-files for their projects, but instead scripts-msbuild invocations against specific projects: https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L140 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L140 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L159 https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/blob/master/build.cmd#L159 I guess this explains why they saw no need to fix the somewhat broken SLN file-format in the first place, but actually did something about project-files. They don't share their customers pain on this point.

pmelendez 12y ago
As a wild guess I would say that using msbuild-scripts is the way to go if you have automatic builds in place.

Halienja 12y ago

So I am not sure what this means to the end user but as another reader pointed out, Google and other companies in future could use .Net/C# as part of their mobile architecture. You could host .net sites on OSX or Linux, test them on a Mac. What else?

camkego 12y ago

Mixed mode assemblies on Linux?? Has anyone heard or seen whether MSFT is planning to support this?