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PayPal might still be the sweetheart, but there's no innovation I feel. With eBay having CC support and being able to charge and return a charge back to the car
by wkoszek 22d ago
PayPal might still be the sweetheart, but there's no innovation I feel. With eBay having CC support and being able to charge and return a charge back to the card, PayPal now is in a niche. I'm helping a founder recruit. To handle the load of candidates, we give folks applying some $ for doing a small 1hr project, and Claude told me that PayPal may still be universal way of sending a "gift amounts". I often wonder how much work would it be to bring IBAN accounts to the US. The need for Zelle baffles me, and the fact that person A can't send $ to person B via normal bank infrastructure is interesting.
- DanielHB 22d agoUS bank accounts don't have IBAN? I thought IBAN numbers were part of the whole Swift system that Russia got locked out of. Shows how much I know about this stuff...
- mrdoe 22d agoWait what? How are you then going to send someone money?! If not through the bank? What special USA feature is this?
- DarmokTanagra 22d agoIts crazy, every time I am in the US and a group needs to split a bill its a absurd debate over which third party payments provider to use. I've even had people refuse cash because they want me to "venmo" them or whatever stupid app they prefer.
- groestl 22d agoIsn't "split the bill" something that the restaurant does?
- chneu 22d agoYes but a lot of people just use apps. It's weird. Americans are super weird about dining procedures and expectations. Remember, we tip here. It's weird.
- ricardobayes 22d agoMost of Europe tips too, and increasingly there is a service charge too (at least in the UK it has become standard now).
- master-lincoln 22d agoAccording to this list it doesn't seem like most of Europe tips too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tipping_customs_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tipping_customs_by_cou...
- ricardobayes 21d agoIn your list it says 13 out of the 18 countries tipping is customary or expected. France and Spain are not among those, which tracks with my experience.
- edoceo 22d agoSometimes. In USA they may require one check for parties of >N (where N can be 6). Some (fancy) places won't split at all. Then consumers juggle apps to square up the deal.
- DarmokTanagra 22d agoWho considers PayPal a sweetheart?! PayPal is by far one of the most heinous companies I have interacted with on a regular basis. Outside the US many banks offer simple QR payment options, the direct transfer difficulties US citizens encounter that make services like PayPal and Zelle necessary are entirely self imposed.
- chneu 22d agoPayPal is Intuit of the payment processor world. Paypal has actively lobbied for legislation(or lack of) in ways that has hurt American consumers.
- jarym 22d ago100%. They had a place back when banks barely knew what the internet was. But I think their time has passed.
- michaellee8 22d ago[dead]
- AdamN 22d agoAgree that nobody considers it a sweetheart but you're wrong on the ex-US issue. Paypal is big in Germany for instance and I literally know nobody who uses Paypal in the US (maybe for eBay stuff??)
- pimeys 22d agoProbably not very long. Multiple companies, including Amazon, started supporting Wero for payments. And most banks already support it. You scan a QR code or open a link that opens your bank app, show your fingerprint, see the amount and which account and to who, and you approve. Very easy and costs nothing to the seller nor the buyer. Next year we'll get this in the physical stores...
- tetec1 22d agoYou’re overestimating their ability to change. I still regularly have to pay in cash in many businesses here in Berlin. Wero is a great start but I suspect that PayPal will stay around for many more years.
- mittensc 22d ago> Claude told me that PayPal may still be universal way of sending a "gift amounts Meanwhile in china you just scan a qr code. In europe you just send money to their IBAN or they send you a link Instant payments, no commission...
- sho_hn 22d ago> In europe you just send money to their IBAN or they send you a link You can, but at least in Germany people are reluctant to give their IBAN to others and prefer one degree of separation, so PayPal is still very common for transfers between friends.
- jbstack 22d ago> in Germany people are reluctant to give their IBAN to others Are they worried people might send them money without their permission?
- CodesInChaos 22d agoAn IBAN can be used to take money via SEPA direct debit.
- herbst 22d agoWhich is the problem. Why does something like this even exist?
- darkwater 22d agoBecause it's a convenient lower tech solution where you don't need to be a merchant with access to the debit card system to get monthly (or one-off) money, and it's easy to take or give back money. As other comments say, it's also trivial to claim back a fraudulent charge, it's exposed directly in every online bank system UI.
- 22d ago
- barrkel 22d agoFor some reason PayPal is still quite big in Germany; about 28% of online revenue in 2025. Also Austria, perhaps Italy, but I have less direct experience there.
- patrickk 22d agoIn Germany, it’s not uncommon for people to not have a credit card. For online purchases, it’s therefore easier to use PayPal at checkout because a direct IBAN transfer or debit card might not be accepted by the merchant. Also for splitting smaller amounts among friends and family (less of a moat because this could be done in principal by a SEPA transfer). In other countries Revolut is popular for the friends and family bill splitting, in places like Sweden they have a PayPal-like solution offered by local banks. There’s an upcoming initiative by Brussels to bring all these national initiatives under one umbrella, which would definitely hurt PayPal’s German revenue in future.
- jen729w 22d agoBut you have a Visa/Mastercard, surely? A thing with 16 digits that you can plug into the Stripe checkout screen? I have, but never use, a 'credit card'. The thing I use every day is a 'debit card', where the money comes straight from my account. But it still has 16 digits and Visa written on the front.
- WA 22d agoGermany: Younger people yes, older people no. They wouldn't know the difference between credit and debit card and everything that looks like a credit card is an invention from hell and instant debt-spiral to them.
- kuschku 22d agoIn 2019, only 20% of Germans had a Visa/Mastercard. The vast majority of Germans used the German GiroCard network, as many vendors refused Visa/Mastercard due to the higher fees (2-3% vs GiroCard's 0.125%), and there was no real need for it. Even 2019 you had to pay 30-50€/year fee just for a debit MasterCard/Visa, as Germans rarely used them and rarely went into overdraft, so there was little profit to be made. Since then MasterCard has tried to force banks into dropping GiroCard, by refusing to work with smaller banks that still support GiroCard, and by offering better conditions to larger banks that drop GiroCard. This has increased the number of Germans with Visa/MasterCard, but it's still below 50%.
- kevin_thibedeau 22d agoZelle is an ACH frontend. It is using normal bank infrastructure.
- LoganDark 22d agoZelle has absolutely never had anything to with ACH, because it's typically instant (within seconds). ACH tends to take hours to days.
- toomuchtodo 8d agoZelle payments, under certain circumstances, will be converted to ACH transfers vs RTP instant payments. Typically, this will occur with higher risk payments (unseasoned contacts or high value transfer amounts) or when the destination is an unenrolled participant in the Zelle ecosystem.
- pests 22d agoTechnically yes, because Zelle is just the frontend, but banks can settle between themselves via ACH if they don't have another arrangement or a RTP (real time payment) setup. To answer the original question, because Zelle is ran by a consortium of banks, they all trust each other enough to release funds immediately and settle up overnight if need be.
- LoganDark 22d agoZelle isn't the ACH or RTP though, is what I'm saying. Zelle is the real-time notifications and accounting, but the reason every bank needs to have bespoke support is because it's each bank's job to figure out how to do the actual funds transfers in the background after Zelle payments go through.
- AdamN 22d agoI'm lovin' RTP. I've used it a few times between IBKR and Chase and it works very well, even for some hefty sums.
- MASNeo 22d agoFor as long as criminals believe they can hide in relative anonymity (e-mail, stolen CC and burner phone being sufficient authorization) and high volume of transactions PayPal will remain with us. It’s a great way to do small cash like transactions without going to crypto. Some crimes still need to source cash.
- DarmokTanagra 22d agoI have had more money stolen from me by PayPal than any scammer.
- Jommi 22d agoDoes https://usedots.com/ https://usedots.com/ fit your purpose?
- general1465 22d ago> I often wonder how much work would it be to bring IBAN accounts to the US It is 2026, in USA people are not having access to IBAN in their bank accounts, usually they have to be personally present for international transfers out of their accounts and everyone have a checkbook.
- Symbiote 22d agoIBAN is less adopted than I expected -- Europe, the Middle East and progressing in Africa, plus a few others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number#Adoption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Num...
- bambax 22d agoI'm from Europe and like Paypal a lot for paying for things online; much easier than using a credit card. Paying with CC: typing the 16 digits of the CC, expiration date, 'CVC', and then having your phone nearby for confirmation. Happens on a myriad of forms from various providers that may or may not save or log the CC number. Many times the text message doesn't arrive on time on your phone, which makes the transaction fail. Or you have reached your credit card 'limit' and the transaction also fails (without you knowing why). Paying with Paypal: username and password (or password only if the username is saved), done. Happens only on the Paypal website. Funds are withdrawn immediately from your bank account if you want. Never fails.
- cjrp 22d agoFor me it's slightly more convenient than manually entering CC details, but still less convenient than Apple/Google Pay where that's supported.
- kakacik 22d agoEuropean here, can't agree at all. Never, ever had the confirmation SMS not arrive. Even when I have literally 0 bars signal and just wifi, it just works here. Those few buys per week I can enter CC numbers directly, I don't mind since its my money being spent. Don't need some questionable middle man if I can avoid that.
- ahartmetz 22d agoSame here, Germany. PayPal with immediate bank transfer is usually a little more convenient. I use CC more often anyway to avoid the middle man, but when I feel lazy (wallet is not on my desk, oh no) or there is any hassle with CC, I use PayPal.
- stefan_ 22d agoIt's crazy how much they have enshittified credit cards. It's not stuff like CVC, that's fine, but all the random failures! Nothing will turn me off your "payment system" more than having it randomly fail on me for utterly incomprehensible reasons when I'm simply trying to pay. It's five times worse when you are traveling, buying some small items in a shop and have it fail at the register.
- Hendrikto 22d ago> the fact that person A can't send $ to person B via normal bank infrastructure is interesting. I would call that outrageous. It is my money. I earned it. I paid taxes on it. Let me fucking use it. That is what I like about crypto. What I have is actually mine. I can send it to whomever I want at any time.
- locallost 22d agoPayPal is far far away from a niche, although this depends on the market. I work for a company in Europe selling physical goods and the vas majority of our sales online are paid with PayPal. The reason their future is not that bright is that things like Apple Pay and Google Pay are starting to eat their lunch because it's just that easy. You pay with e.g. Google Pay, verify your fingerprint and you're done. No logins, no typing, no stored passwords or credit cards that sometimes don't autofill correctly. So the writing is on the wall for the future, but they are still a money machine in the present day. The only thing easier than paying with a fingerprint is not paying at all. So their lifeline could be agentic shopping where you don't even shop anymore if this can ever become a thing.
- classified 22d ago> but there's no innovation I feel. WTF, I want my payments to work, no “innovation” necessary.
- rchaud 21d agoIf a site has PayPal as a payment method, I'm using PayPal. It's a million times more convenient than punching my CC into yet another site. I don't use mobile wallets. I've had a PP account since the time it was required to buy anything on Ebay. The best feature it has is being able to cancel newspaper subscriptions without the hassle of calling and talking to a retention agent.
- featwanz 20d agoI've always been baffled when friends return from the US talking about how hard it was to simply move dollars from one person to the other without using hard currency, how is this a thing in the modern world?