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Bun 1.4 Rust rewrite is not looking good?
- aneryu 29d agoBased on my experience so far, code written by today’s frontier LLM is generally trustworthy, though it still requires human oversight.
- deleted 29d ago[deleted]
- tipiirai 29d agoI've been a heavy user of Bun since 2022. The last three months of their public timeline have not looked good, so I wanted to summarize my frustration
- unified101 29d ago[flagged]
- worthless-trash 29d ago> Bun 1.4 Rust rewrite is not looking good This is.. clickbait ?
- unified101 29d ago[flagged]
- chr15m 27d agoThis was useful to read, thanks.
- rao-v 29d agoWhat is the right recommendation at this point for a Node alternative? Deno?
- tipiirai 29d agoI'm still waiting for v1.4 as I have committed to Bun so much. Not looking good, though.
- xscott 29d agoNot that my opinion matters much, but I like Deno. I never tried Bun.
- domh 29d agoWhat's wrong with just using Node? It's stable, has a good (and growing) standard library and has enough backing to be self sustaining. edit: There's also nub which is built on top of Node.js and removes some rough/legacy edges: https://github.com/nubjs/nub https://github.com/nubjs/nub
- hresvelgr 29d agoIt consolidates a lot of really annoying nits and quality of life aspects like bundling, module resolution, testing, env handling, etc. Node is just the runtime and still would require libs like esbuild, jest/vitest, dotenv, and so on. It's genuinely nice to have those out of the box, and generally in Bun the performance is quite significantly better in places that matter.
- domh 29d agoLet me address each one in turn: - esbuild - this is normally for TS compilation, which Node can run natively now by stripping types: https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/typescript.html#type-stripping https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/typescript.html#type-stri... - jest/vitest: Node has a test runner: https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/test.html https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/test.html - dotenv: Node can read .env files: https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/cli.html#--env-filefile https://nodejs.org/docs/latest/api/cli.html#--env-filefile Performance, maybe you're right - but if you're doing any IO, I doubt the runtime is really the bottleneck.
- franciscop 29d ago
- dvt 29d ago> The last three months have not looked good for Bun. Apart from pro-AI or anti-AI posturing how have the last few months not looked good for Bun, exactly? I use it daily and I've seen basically zero regressions. I get it, you don't like AI or you like Zig over Rust, or whatever. I just haven't seen any serious argument that Bun has somehow become worse software. > The project has over 5k open pull requests, which is the largest number of pull requests I’ve seen. Terrible argument, and not really an argument at all. > The biggest worry is, of course, the code itself. I agree, so look at the code and point out what's wrong with it. Insofar as Andrew Kelley is concerned, it's obvious he has an axe to grind and is salty about Bun embarassing Zig (which he freely admits). Not sure why you'd invoke an unreliable narrator as some sort of final nail in the coffin.
- tipiirai 29d agoUnused code is one issue. A project called Buz[1] found over 11,000 lines of dead code from the Rust port. [1]: https://github.com/jazzzooo/buz https://github.com/jazzzooo/buz
- unified101 29d ago11k out of a million. I wish I had a project under 1% of "dead code".
- verdverm 29d agothere are linters that check for dead code (depending on your language / ecosystem), it should always be 0%
- jibal 29d agoThe dead code was removed from the pre-Rust Zig version. The OP has no credibility. P.S. Nor does new user parenting my comments.
- unified101 29d ago
- joshuat 29d agoThis reads as another weirdly personal attack against Jarred for slighting a technology stack the author prefers, citing the even weirder personal attack against Jarred written by Andrew Kelley as the sole source to justify their "biggest worry", code quality. Idk why people have become so invested in this.
- jibal 29d agoThe OP says > Unused code is one issue. A project called Buz[1] found over 11,000 lines of dead code from the Rust port. [1]: https://github.com/jazzzooo/buz https://github.com/jazzzooo/buz When in fact Buz is a fork of the pre-Rust Zig version of Bun. The OP has no credibility.
- potsandpans 28d agoPeople _really_ don't want there to be success stories for llms and they will go through all lengths to discredit and disparage folks successfully exploring the space.
- dafelst 28d agoIt is yet to be determined whether or not the bun rewrite is a success, though.
- hdjrudni 28d agoRight. So let's hold our horses and wait for the release before disparaging anyone. I do have to agree with the author about Jarred's false claims about release dates though. Really not sure why he keeps doing that.
- vga1 28d agoWhat are the standards for determining that? The most obvious benefit Rust can give them is being safe from memory leaks. This is hardly controversial: it has been a Zig design choice that memory leaks are the developer/user's responsibility. They have already demonstrated to have fixed several of those [0]. Marketing-wise, it has been an obvious success. Dunno if that matters. [0] https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust
- jemiluv8 29d agoYet another clickbait making outrageous assertions. Fwiw I don’t think anyone’s reputation is on the line and so far, you’ve offered only anecdotal evidence at best. Things like this should be backed by stats and community surveys and a whole lot more. I didn’t see anything about number of downloads or any of the usual metrics used to judge software these days Your whole scientific endeavor in this seemed to thrive on the rock solid foundation of tweets. And all those referencing of the Kelly post makes this even more of a clickbait. All you had was to put all the ingredients of a post that will draw the crowd but offer very little on the subject matter it purported to discuss
- stpedgwdgfhgdd 29d agoThe article is about the upcoming 1.4 release. The article lists various promised release dates, are they incorrect?
- okeuro49 29d agoCounterpoint: > Our conclusion is deliberately modest: under the conditions Prisma Compute cares about, the Rust rewrite behaved better than the stable release we had been testing. That was enough to change what we shipped. https://www.prisma.io/blog/bun-rust-rewrite-prisma-compute https://www.prisma.io/blog/bun-rust-rewrite-prisma-compute
- franciscop 29d agoBun has been nothing but amazing wins for me, and I really like what it enabled me to do. Two examples: - I have a couple of projects that handle images. I was including Sharp, but since these are side projects in a small VM, often a redeploy that recompiled Sharp just crashed the full VM (out of memory). Bun includes Bun.Image[1] natively, which is built around Sharp's API, so swapping Sharp out was very easy, and now deploys are a breeze (and swapping it in would be just as easy). - Bun's JSX support is a godsend. I've replaced almost all my side projects that were backend rendered from Pug, Handlebars, and other various templates I used to have to just pure JSX. Heck, this made it trivial to make a side projects where the Favicon was a dynamic SVG [2] [1] https://bun.com/docs/runtime/image https://bun.com/docs/runtime/image [2] https://stocksreader.com/portfolio?%5Egspc=10&amzn=10&msft=12&tsla=8&v=15&ko=20&spcx=10&aapl=10&period=1M https://stocksreader.com/portfolio?%5Egspc=10&amzn=10&msft=1...
- tipiirai 29d agoI also use Bun.Image to collect image size and metadata, and also to generate low-quality image placeholders. Works great. Have you tried 1.4?
- CrimsonRain 28d agohave you? Type -canary instead of this garbage article
- deleted 28d ago[deleted]
- skeledrew 29d agoI'm still waiting for someone to bring forth some reproducible stats and state something along the lines of "I did a comparison of Bun 1.3 vs 1.4, and found these user-affecting issues in the latter which are not in the former".
- happytoexplain 29d ago[flagged]
- skydhash 28d agoIs it a paid job?
- cyanydeez 28d agocan I do it with AI?
- dgellow 28d agoYou have free will
- namblooc 28d agoRobert Sapolsky would disagree
- dgellow 28d agoI would assume Sapolsky understands how terms are defined by their context, and that someone saying “free will” in a forum discussion about software doesn’t literally imply the strictest, academic definition of the term. But if not he can reach out
- namblooc 27d agoI'm curious as to what other definitions of the term exist, other than the academic one? I had never though of using the term in any other context. But maybe that's because I've been concerning myself with this specific topic for too long.
- jtrn 29d agoThis reads like one of thouse articles in mainstream media where the author has a obvious agenda, and they think they are really clever when they write an attack piece that they think looks like objective , when it really really transparently isent.
- tonyhart7 29d agolmao need 5 trillion more Opus token
- rich_sasha 29d agoFor me the real test will be maintainability going forwards. Not a JS user. I suppose it’s one thing to rewrite code and make tests pass. But a lot of my own CPU cycles when coding go to making the code understandable, modular, editable etc. IME Claude is not great on these. Maybe it doesn’t matter? Maybe the spaghetti makes sense to Claude, and when you say “hey add this feature”, no problem? But maybe it will turn into a worse ball of spaghetti, with no nicely curated tests, hacks on hacks on hacks and never ending loops of whackamole of “just change this one line and rerun tests”. I can imagine both - let’s see.
- 0-bad-sectors 29d agoI think this is a great chance for us to evaluate how capable AI is and at what cost does it deliver such capabilities. I would love to know how much token they spent on the rewrite starting from deciding to rewrite till they actually ship. I assume since the beginning of this whole rewrite saga they have been spending tokens on it every day so the number that Jarred mentioned in his blog post has increased a lot since then. Also assuming the future releases will be done through AI as well I wonder how much it will cost for each of them.
- SaucyWrong 28d agoJarred wrote a lengthy blog about the rewrite a little while ago and IIRC the token burn numbers were in there (or at least the burn up to that point in time). https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust https://bun.com/blog/bun-in-rust
- classicposter 28d agohttps://x.com/yagiznizipli/status/2082905235459117202 https://x.com/yagiznizipli/status/2082905235459117202 They were pleased to be faster than Go in the "Hello World" benchmark, but unfortunately, they lag behind Node.js and Deno in complex real-world workloads.
- SaucyWrong 28d agoThis remains one of the strangest and frankly most annoying beefs I’ve ever read about all decade, and I say this as somebody with no particular affinity for bun, rust, or zig.
- Havoc 28d agoCould have sworn I read this exact article a month ago
- rtpg 28d ago3 months since the last stable release feels ... alright. The constant promises for a new stable release feels a bit like a self-own. Having said that I would have a bit more confidence in things if release just got back to a normal pace.
- AntonOfTheWoods 28d agoLots of people are apparently happily using the canary version in prod. Anthropic has been using it for ages now, as has Prisma. Why not release 1.4 (or 2.0 or whatever) then? It won't get picked up by lots of tooling and won't get allowed in many "no pre-release in prod" shops until then. It had plenty of issues before (many thousands of open issues) so a few thousand more is hardly a big deal...
- tuananh 28d agobit off topic: do lots of people use Prisma Compute? I never heard it in a conversation, in my bubble
- jibal 28d agoTFA shows that they are working on releasing it. If you actually want an answer to your question, ask Jarred ... you won't get it here.
- hdjrudni 28d agoNo, the article shows that Jarred is claiming to be working on releasing it. And maybe he is, but he's also not provided reasons for the repeated delays, so for all we know he's goofing off drinking pina colladas while Claude is running the show and Tweeting on his behalf.
- jibal 26d ago"for all we know [utterly implausible nonsense]" is intellectually dishonest trash, not a legitimate argument.
- conartist6 28d agoI think the rewrite will end up being more expensive (for the same quality) because AI was used. At the same time this specific rewrite is being used to drive the narrative that reading the code is counterproductive. If they had delivered their promises, they might have convincingly delivered that argument. ...but the cost keeps going up and up and up and up! If it was only the token costs it might still be economically viable, but I'm imagining that when you add in the pro-rated salaries of the human engineers this would start to look like a financial blunder even if it released today. It's true that I don't want a success story told about a failure, because then replicating the "success" would likely produce lots more bad outcomes
- aypineau 28d agoI'm really skeptical about this rewrite I chose to adopt bun about a year ago, and I've honestly lost count of the number of issues i've submitted and the amount of time i've wasted dealing with them. If I had to make the choice again, I would probably stick with node and pnpm for serious projects We're constantly being sold on promises of -XX% ram usage, but in practice, it's often builds randomly failing for no apparent reason, memory leaks bringing applications down, and instability that ends up costing far more in engineering time than the resources saved That's why i'm worried that bun 1.4 could end up being a step backwards, once again putting into question the small amount of stability we've managed to achieve so far But I still strongly believe the project makes a lot of sense, and I genuinely think these issues can be solved by 2028, if the project keeps its focus on stability instead of another SDK for SQL, web sockets, image compression, or whatever comes next
- owebmaster 28d ago> But I still strongly believe the project makes a lot of sense, and I genuinely think these issues can be solved by 2028, if the project keeps its focus on stability instead of another SDK for SQL, web sockets, image compression, or whatever comes next If you check the maintainer X, he's asking Claude for what features to implement next. Not only stabilizing isn't the priority, even the features implemented are random.
- hn_submit 28d agoI'm quietly hoping it fails. This will once and for all silence all those paid-shills that are calling out that A.I. will replace all software developers. It may also lead to the A.I. musical chairs game stopping and a multi-trillion dollar collapse of the stock-market and, most likely, the financial system. Hopefully we'll be able to buy DRAM and other stuff that uses it cheaply again. I mean there's so much cruft on the internet about people talking how revolutionary these code generators are and that they fixed 5 years worth of technical debt in 2 months etc. etc. Considering the multi-trillion dollars involved I don't believe we can trust anything we read anymore. Many of these proponents are nothing but paid shills.
- spartanatreyu 24d ago> This will once and for all silence all those paid-shills that are calling out that A.I. will replace all software developers. Nah, they'll just shift the goalposts again.
- andsoitis 27d agoBun 1.4 released: https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 and https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/releases/tag/bun-v1.4.0 https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/releases/tag/bun-v1.4.0
- jtrn 27d agoIndeed. This article didn't age well... I'm sure that the creator of the original piece will do a thoughtful self-analysis if they might have gotten something wrong, and make sure they didn't have any sort of unspoken bias in their thinking and writing!
- bomzj 27d agoLol Bun rust-rewrite is still not released even after 3 month :).
- nharziro 27d agoThis comment aged poorly