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I don't think audio, image or video generation should exist. I haven't seen enough positive applications to justify the amount of harm these tools are being use

by damsta 2mo ago

I don't think audio, image or video generation should exist. I haven't seen enough positive applications to justify the amount of harm these tools are being used to cause.

p-e-w 2mo ago
[flagged]
E-Reverance 2mo ago
> I haven't seen enough positive applications If in the future they can create a reward model to aid with creating super human levels of appeal tailored to me, I would considered it one of the best technologies ever made. I'm not sentimental about the source, pretty videos and pictures make me happy
argentinian 2mo ago
Now they cause harm because there's people that may believe a fake video is real. But people is developing skepticism about what they see in videos and learning to think that they may be generated, before taking them as true. What kind of harms do you have in mind?
- Nition 2mo ago
  No longer being able to tell whether any image or video is real due to the extreme ease of creating realistic fakes, is itself a harm.
  - jay_kyburz 2mo ago
    It might actually be helpful to push through and out to the other side. Think about how many completely fake videos are going to be flying around for the next election. Nobody is going to believe anything the see online. What is the the next stage, where the only things you believe are things you see with your own eyes.
    - Barbing 2mo ago
      >things you see with your own eyes Oh I wouldn't trust myself! In his study, "Nearly 2,000 witnesses can be wrong", Buckhout performed an experiment with 2,145 at-home viewers of a popular news broadcast. The television network played a 13-second clip of a mock robbery, produced by Buckhout. ... The people at home could call a number on their screen to report which suspect they believed was the perpetrator. The perpetrator was suspect number 2. ... Approximately equal contingents of participants chose suspects 1, 2, or 5, while the largest group of participants, about 25 percent, said they believed the perpetrator was not in the lineup. Even police precincts called in and reported the wrong man as the one they believed committed the crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony#Reliability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony#Reliabili... Also-mentioned concepts: misinformation effect, source misattribution, confirmation bias.
  - Aerroon 2mo ago
    You've seen movies before. You know that they can make fake videos look realistic. We have an entire industry built around it, so why is it only a harm now?
    - Nition 2mo ago
      Since it took a certain amount of time and effort, as well as skill in the past, it was a significantly lesser problem than it's becoming now. Especially with video footage.
      - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
        plus all the money and people involved created a paper trail, which meant proving something was "faked" much easier that no longer exists with genAI models
  - galkk 2mo ago
    It will be solved. Walleted, vertically integrated Apple can do a digital authenticity signature and guarantee that the video you see was at least shot on iPhone, and I won’t be surprised if it will happen soon. This + some lidar info will be enabled and everybody except minority will say that this is a great thing to have.
    - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
      until models will be trained to fake that too
      - galkk 2mo ago
        I’m not talking about watermarks, I’m talking about hardware digital signature.
    - Nition 2mo ago
      Couldn't I just take a photo of an AI image with my phone? I suppose that'd where the LIDAR comes in.
vitalyan8184 2mo ago
[dead]
chrysoprace 2mo ago
While I generally think it's balanced against a lot of negative applications (misinformation, deepfakes, etc.), there are some good applications. I think regulation just hasn't sufficiently caught up with the harm they can cause. To give a good use case (audio generation specifically), the 2002 game Morrowind has had a resurgence lately and it's a really great game, but it lacks fully voiced lines for dialogue. A community project called Voices of Vvardenfell uses ElevenAI to generate voice lines from the voiced lines that do exist in the game. They don't take away jobs from artists because it was a monumental (unpaid) undertaking from community volunteers to do this before (there was such a big project but it was abandoned last I saw). So as with any emerging technologies, I think it just needs to be properly regulated.
- Barbing 2mo ago
  > They don't take away jobs from artists Does the game with improvements now better compete against other games with paid human voice actors?
  - chrysoprace 2mo ago
    The game is from 2002. Anybody wanting to play the game either buys it for nostalgia or as an enthusiast. All the mod does is increase accessibility.
- thrance 2mo ago
  Morrowind wasn't meant to be narrated, NPCs blur out walls of text with hyperlinks in them leading to more walls of text. If I had to sit idle while someone/something was reading all of this to me, I'd be bored out of my mind.
- Jtarii 2mo ago
  >To give a good use case (audio generation specifically), the 2002 game Morrowind has had a resurgence lately and it's a really great game, but it lacks fully voiced lines for dialogue. This isn't how art works. Reminds me of this twitter post. https://x.com/DonnelVillager/status/1741394747594318275 https://x.com/DonnelVillager/status/1741394747594318275 You can mod the game however you want, but to imply that its somehow a incomplete game because it "lacks voice acting" is just wrong.
userbinator 2mo ago
[flagged]
- ruszki 2mo ago
  The long tail dream didn’t really happen in any single market which was democratized the same way in the past. Why do you expect something else now, especially on an already oversaturated market?
- trencedamp 2mo ago
  How does creating fake video amplify anyone's voice?
- Barbing 2mo ago
  Some voices are “$politicalParty should win at all costs” and “my ex-spouse should be humiliated” and “my boss should go to jail for the pittance they pay me”, and instead of text opinions posted or voices shouted, there’s video gen to amplify them. They didn’t have the skill to make a convincing fake video themselves but if tools are at their fingertips… temptation. Really not ideal although obviously amazing artists will do incredible things with the technology that many of us will enjoy. Cat out of bag, of course.
  - userbinator 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Barbing 2mo ago
      Well, you can imagine how the first and third examples could go far beyond protected speech. Boss example - The First Amendment wouldn’t protect the whole process of making deepfake videos created with the goal of spurring a false imprisonment in retaliation for perceived poor leadership, and sending them off to the company board and town police chief as if they’re real, asking for immediate action.
- krelian 2mo ago
  It's going to be just like social media. A flood of content from the talentless masses exposing us to their lazy and shallow ideas they just cannot keep to themselves. Once in a while a diamond in the rough will be found, but at what cost?
globular-toast 2mo ago
What are the positive applications? This all seems to be generating fake images/videos just because we can, not because it solves any real problems. It makes me wonder where the money is coming from to fund this stuff. Why would a regular person want to generate fake videos except for purposes of deception or debauchery?
- Barbing 2mo ago
  Benefit: entertainment Downsides: * (Well <all> minus entertainment)
- bsenftner 2mo ago
  The lack of creative understanding is astounding: all these generative media AI are fantastic for education applications. Sure, the vast majority want to use them to jerk off, but that's what humanity does anyway. Education is where these are extremely useful, and that is for the aid in conveying understanding to those that need the Jazz Hands of an image or audio or a video presentation to grasp the concept they are not.
  - toasty228 2mo ago
    It's been here for a while, where are the numbers? Youtube is also great for education, yet 99% of the watch time is pure brainrot entertainment
    - bsenftner 1mo ago
      The numbers reflect the vast majority jerking off, self entertaining. To find the 1% of the 1% that use anything for self improvement, one needs to look at the statistical tails. Because that market is so small, and their skills so advanced, you will not hear about them because they represent too small a market for our pop culture to try to leverage them for profits, other low hanging fruit is far too sweet, such as all the idiots that want to jerk off and will pay.
- Marha01 2mo ago
  > What are the positive applications? Generating large training video datasets for robotics is going to be huge. Google used generative AI to make training data for self-driving cars (Waymo). This is by far the most promising facet of this tech, IMHO, and hugely underestimated in potential future impact.
skakcnejwisnsid 2mo ago
You comment is completely unethical it's funny you think you are saying something good
HDBaseT 2mo ago
It seems like the race to the bottom slowed down with audio, video and image generation models. OpenAI has completely shifted focus, Google still is working on various toolings/models but ultimately most people are unwilling to pay for these generations, whereby code, can easily be burned (and paid for) by businesses. image gen isn't a proven market (at least not yet).

by damsta 2mo ago

I don't think audio, image or video generation should exist. I haven't seen enough positive applications to justify the amount of harm these tools are being used to cause.

p-e-w 2mo ago

[flagged]

E-Reverance 2mo ago

> I haven't seen enough positive applications If in the future they can create a reward model to aid with creating super human levels of appeal tailored to me, I would considered it one of the best technologies ever made. I'm not sentimental about the source, pretty videos and pictures make me happy

argentinian 2mo ago

Now they cause harm because there's people that may believe a fake video is real. But people is developing skepticism about what they see in videos and learning to think that they may be generated, before taking them as true. What kind of harms do you have in mind?

Nition 2mo ago
No longer being able to tell whether any image or video is real due to the extreme ease of creating realistic fakes, is itself a harm.
- jay_kyburz 2mo ago
  It might actually be helpful to push through and out to the other side. Think about how many completely fake videos are going to be flying around for the next election. Nobody is going to believe anything the see online. What is the the next stage, where the only things you believe are things you see with your own eyes.
  - Barbing 2mo ago
    >things you see with your own eyes Oh I wouldn't trust myself! In his study, "Nearly 2,000 witnesses can be wrong", Buckhout performed an experiment with 2,145 at-home viewers of a popular news broadcast. The television network played a 13-second clip of a mock robbery, produced by Buckhout. ... The people at home could call a number on their screen to report which suspect they believed was the perpetrator. The perpetrator was suspect number 2. ... Approximately equal contingents of participants chose suspects 1, 2, or 5, while the largest group of participants, about 25 percent, said they believed the perpetrator was not in the lineup. Even police precincts called in and reported the wrong man as the one they believed committed the crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony#Reliability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony#Reliabili... Also-mentioned concepts: misinformation effect, source misattribution, confirmation bias.
- Aerroon 2mo ago
  You've seen movies before. You know that they can make fake videos look realistic. We have an entire industry built around it, so why is it only a harm now?
  - Nition 2mo ago
    Since it took a certain amount of time and effort, as well as skill in the past, it was a significantly lesser problem than it's becoming now. Especially with video footage.
    - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
      plus all the money and people involved created a paper trail, which meant proving something was "faked" much easier that no longer exists with genAI models
- galkk 2mo ago
  It will be solved. Walleted, vertically integrated Apple can do a digital authenticity signature and guarantee that the video you see was at least shot on iPhone, and I won’t be surprised if it will happen soon. This + some lidar info will be enabled and everybody except minority will say that this is a great thing to have.
  - WhrRTheBaboons 2mo ago
    until models will be trained to fake that too
    - galkk 2mo ago
      I’m not talking about watermarks, I’m talking about hardware digital signature.
  - Nition 2mo ago
    Couldn't I just take a photo of an AI image with my phone? I suppose that'd where the LIDAR comes in.

vitalyan8184 2mo ago

[dead]

chrysoprace 2mo ago

While I generally think it's balanced against a lot of negative applications (misinformation, deepfakes, etc.), there are some good applications. I think regulation just hasn't sufficiently caught up with the harm they can cause. To give a good use case (audio generation specifically), the 2002 game Morrowind has had a resurgence lately and it's a really great game, but it lacks fully voiced lines for dialogue. A community project called Voices of Vvardenfell uses ElevenAI to generate voice lines from the voiced lines that do exist in the game. They don't take away jobs from artists because it was a monumental (unpaid) undertaking from community volunteers to do this before (there was such a big project but it was abandoned last I saw). So as with any emerging technologies, I think it just needs to be properly regulated.

Barbing 2mo ago
> They don't take away jobs from artists Does the game with improvements now better compete against other games with paid human voice actors?
- chrysoprace 2mo ago
  The game is from 2002. Anybody wanting to play the game either buys it for nostalgia or as an enthusiast. All the mod does is increase accessibility.
thrance 2mo ago
Morrowind wasn't meant to be narrated, NPCs blur out walls of text with hyperlinks in them leading to more walls of text. If I had to sit idle while someone/something was reading all of this to me, I'd be bored out of my mind.
Jtarii 2mo ago
>To give a good use case (audio generation specifically), the 2002 game Morrowind has had a resurgence lately and it's a really great game, but it lacks fully voiced lines for dialogue. This isn't how art works. Reminds me of this twitter post. https://x.com/DonnelVillager/status/1741394747594318275 https://x.com/DonnelVillager/status/1741394747594318275 You can mod the game however you want, but to imply that its somehow a incomplete game because it "lacks voice acting" is just wrong.

userbinator 2mo ago

[flagged]

ruszki 2mo ago
The long tail dream didn’t really happen in any single market which was democratized the same way in the past. Why do you expect something else now, especially on an already oversaturated market?
trencedamp 2mo ago
How does creating fake video amplify anyone's voice?
Barbing 2mo ago
Some voices are “$politicalParty should win at all costs” and “my ex-spouse should be humiliated” and “my boss should go to jail for the pittance they pay me”, and instead of text opinions posted or voices shouted, there’s video gen to amplify them. They didn’t have the skill to make a convincing fake video themselves but if tools are at their fingertips… temptation. Really not ideal although obviously amazing artists will do incredible things with the technology that many of us will enjoy. Cat out of bag, of course.
- userbinator 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Barbing 2mo ago
    Well, you can imagine how the first and third examples could go far beyond protected speech. Boss example - The First Amendment wouldn’t protect the whole process of making deepfake videos created with the goal of spurring a false imprisonment in retaliation for perceived poor leadership, and sending them off to the company board and town police chief as if they’re real, asking for immediate action.
krelian 2mo ago
It's going to be just like social media. A flood of content from the talentless masses exposing us to their lazy and shallow ideas they just cannot keep to themselves. Once in a while a diamond in the rough will be found, but at what cost?

globular-toast 2mo ago

What are the positive applications? This all seems to be generating fake images/videos just because we can, not because it solves any real problems. It makes me wonder where the money is coming from to fund this stuff. Why would a regular person want to generate fake videos except for purposes of deception or debauchery?

Barbing 2mo ago
Benefit: entertainment Downsides: * (Well <all> minus entertainment)
bsenftner 2mo ago
The lack of creative understanding is astounding: all these generative media AI are fantastic for education applications. Sure, the vast majority want to use them to jerk off, but that's what humanity does anyway. Education is where these are extremely useful, and that is for the aid in conveying understanding to those that need the Jazz Hands of an image or audio or a video presentation to grasp the concept they are not.
- toasty228 2mo ago
  It's been here for a while, where are the numbers? Youtube is also great for education, yet 99% of the watch time is pure brainrot entertainment
  - bsenftner 1mo ago
    The numbers reflect the vast majority jerking off, self entertaining. To find the 1% of the 1% that use anything for self improvement, one needs to look at the statistical tails. Because that market is so small, and their skills so advanced, you will not hear about them because they represent too small a market for our pop culture to try to leverage them for profits, other low hanging fruit is far too sweet, such as all the idiots that want to jerk off and will pay.
Marha01 2mo ago
> What are the positive applications? Generating large training video datasets for robotics is going to be huge. Google used generative AI to make training data for self-driving cars (Waymo). This is by far the most promising facet of this tech, IMHO, and hugely underestimated in potential future impact.

skakcnejwisnsid 2mo ago

You comment is completely unethical it's funny you think you are saying something good

HDBaseT 2mo ago

It seems like the race to the bottom slowed down with audio, video and image generation models. OpenAI has completely shifted focus, Google still is working on various toolings/models but ultimately most people are unwilling to pay for these generations, whereby code, can easily be burned (and paid for) by businesses. image gen isn't a proven market (at least not yet).