7 ms·

Keychron announces first open-source firmware for gaming mice

442 points by JLO64 2mo ago

Neil44 2mo ago
This is going to be used for cheating / hacking in games.
JLO64 2mo ago
I’ve had positive experiences with Keychron products in the past, but I’ve moved past them as I now prefer orthogonal layouts. That said, I loved their support of QMK on my Q1 Pro and I really hope this ends up on that same level.
- loloquwowndueo 2mo ago
  Ortholinear, surely? Which one do you use/have now?
  - JLO64 2mo ago
    You're right, I do have an ortholinear keyboard! I have an Inland MK-47 I bought on a whim from Microcenter, but it's been absolutely transformational. It did require a fair amount of setup though: - I swapped out the switched from crummy reds to some lubed Keychron Browns I had. - I had some custom keycaps made via https://yuzukeycaps.com/ https://yuzukeycaps.com/ since the ones it came with were abysmal. - I had to enlarge the cutout for the USB-C port in the case so it could fit cables other than the one it came with. - The default shortcuts/functions were bad so I had to customize it in QMK.
- abhinavk 2mo ago
  Do you mean really ortholinears like Planck or columnars like Corne, Sofle, Kinesis?
  - JLO64 2mo ago
    My bad, I did mean "ortholinear"!
DemiGuru 2mo ago
For those that are interested: - https://github.com/Keychron/zgm https://github.com/Keychron/zgm - https://zgm.gg/ https://zgm.gg/
- exidex 2mo ago
  Um, did they announce opensource firmware without providing the source?
  - robrtsql 2mo ago
    Yep! > This repository is currently in its early setup phase. > At the moment, the repository mainly contains project scaffolding, policy files, and the initial project direction. Firmware sources, board support, build instructions, and flashing guidance are still being prepared. > That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. The goal is not to wait until everything is finished before opening the door. The goal is to make the long-term direction visible and let the project grow into a useful open firmware platform in the open.
    - fwip 2mo ago
      > That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. "Intentionally early" is one of those phrases that means they vibed this README out in an hour with AI, and now hope that they can create firmware for it in the next 6 months.
  - DemiGuru 2mo ago
    Based on what I understand, pull requests are coming. In the meantime they provide directions for people that want to contribute here -> https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md
    - martinjc 2mo ago
      Where are the PRs coming in? I see a repo without source code.
echelon 2mo ago
I suspect that a lot of hardware will start shipping open source firmware soon. Routers, IP cameras, etc. It'll be a selling point for everyone tinkering with vibe coding, and it's no longer a moat. Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools. Companies that do this will have community goodwill and extra distribution that comes from having people talking about your product.
- dmitrygr 2mo ago
  > Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools This is not as "one and done" as you make it sound.
- warmwaffles 2mo ago
  I suspect a lot of that firmware has NDAs with Broadcom attached.
  - tancop 2mo ago
    thats not the blocker you think it is. they can "leak" the info, wait until broadcom lawyers notice, agree to investigate themselves and fire a random contractor (who gets paid on the side). they just need to do it outside of america to avoid discovery if anyone decides to sue them.
- drnick1 2mo ago
  > Routers, IP cameras, etc. Those already exist: OpenWRT, OpenIPC. I wish more hardware was available though, especially for cameras.
  - loloquwowndueo 2mo ago
    Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend? I need surveillance cameras (outdoor mostly) but the cheap ones I found are a horrid proprietary mess. I even bought and returned one after the setup was complex and invasive. Basically all I need is access to the live stream from a raspberry pi where I can store and process the video.
lstodd 2mo ago
I still wait for someone to beat logitech m500 (released 2009) in ergonomics.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
DobarDabar 2mo ago
Keychrone mice are already pretty nice, this is a welcome improvement
- Evidlo 2mo ago
  Their mice are pretty nice, and they come at a good price. The M7 is a particularly good device, and their other offerings have enticed me twice.
  - bigfishrunning 2mo ago
    Thanks for being so concise
  - DobarDabar 2mo ago
    [dead]
jchw 2mo ago
A bit ago I accidentally bought a Keychron keyboard that didn't have QMK support, but then found that someone had ported it anyway, and I was able to flash it and fix some problems I had (the main one being that it seems like the default firmware only scans a single row of keys while asleep, possibly to save energy, but I want any keypress to wake the computer.) Maybe it's not perfect, but the community around open source keyboard firmware is great, it's a good example of how open source is beneficial for end users, especially power users. And, in an era where vendor software and firmware for all kinds of devices is constantly having vulnerabilities, it is possible the liability of doing custom shit will eventually outweigh whatever benefits hardware companies seem to think it has, versus just having industry standards and free software instead. But, maybe that is wishful thinking. My only complaint with Keychron is that of 5 or so keyboards I've owned from them I wound up having to resolder 3 different hotswap sockets on 2 different keyboards right out of the box. That is... Not a fantastic failure rate. OTOH, they are otherwise an unambiguously great value, with materials and build quality that feels pretty impressive for the cost, QC issues notwithstanding.
- martinjc 2mo ago
  I bought a K4 Nordic version, only to learn none of their software supports it. So i can't reconfigure the firmware. The keyboard has swapped Super/Alt (Windows/Alt) on the windows layout which is so annoying. I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it, but i curse the engineer that burned the prom every day.
  - benoau 2mo ago
    That sucks, the main reason I like KeyChron is the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows! I wouldn't buy another keyboard without this feature TBH.
    - martinjc 2mo ago
      Yeah on the mac it works fine. The keyboard just shipped with the Left Alt and Left Windows key in the correct positions, but they are mapped opposite in the firmware. Imagine how maddening it was in the beginning.
nijave 2mo ago
Hopefully better than their QMK fork. They force push over their branch in their fork each new release effectively erasing history of the last version... Of course there's no change log anywhere either...
- seba_dos1 2mo ago
  > effectively erasing history of the last version Does that mean they remove any release tags as well?
  - nijave 2mo ago
    Iirc there are no release tags, they build off the tip of the branch Actually it's their zmk fork, not qmk https://github.com/Keychron/zmk/tree/rtl8762g https://github.com/Keychron/zmk/tree/rtl8762g
    - seba_dos1 2mo ago
      Perhaps asking them to tag the releases is all that's needed then.
- warmwaffles 2mo ago
  I don't blame them though. QMK is a mess of a monolithic repository.
  - Graziano_M 2mo ago
    QMK should be thrown away. ZMK is much, much cleaner.
    - abhinavk 2mo ago
      Yep. I am waiting for half-duplex UART splitkb support to come so that I can move everything over.
matchstickman23 2mo ago
Very interesting. I've been eyeballing a mouse/trackball project for a while based on some of the open source designs like Ploopy and the like. Slap a Nordic chip on it and a joycon battery. Even better if you can cook up a wireless charging mousepad like Logitech offers!
jerlam 2mo ago
This would be more exciting if Keychron had mice of more interesting / experimental form factors and functionality. Just like their keyboards, their mice are mostly differentiated by obscure technical features (polling rates!). I'm a bit worried that a decent, modern replacement for the extremely obsolete multi-button mouse I have now (Logitech G602) will never be available.
- 100percentjake 2mo ago
  I miss my G602 so much. Replaced it with a G604 and then replaced that one with another G604 and then a third G604 before realizing that Logi's build quality has seemingly dived off a cliff for the premium they charge for their product and swapped to the 50% as expensive Keychron mice and keyboards and have been satisfactorily living with the decrease in available buttons (though quite an adjustment was needed). Onset of carpal tunnel has seen me switch to a vertical mouse anyways, so a change was inevitable.
  - big_toast 2mo ago
    I made the G602 to G604 to ?? transition. I ended up on the Razer Naga v2 Hyperspeed because I couldn't give up the dual mode scrolling. It functions very well but I'm waiting for it to break and find it discontinued like all the rest. I got it a few years ago now so I'm not sure what mice I considered. But I'm always curious to hear if people have found better mmo mice. The 12 buttons + 2 index buttons, the high dpi, the 2.4ghz, the two scroll modes. I really enjoy it.
- minimaxir 2mo ago
  My G602 died due to Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :( I've been fine with the G502 X Lightspeed (which should avoid said double-click issue due to optical switches) and some more efficient button use to compensate for the fewer side buttons.
  - ErroneousBosh 2mo ago
    > Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :( Isn't that just the tact switch failing? Two minute job to replace...
WithinReason 2mo ago
I hope this leads to macro programmable mice, the only brand I know of that saves macros on board and supports while loops is A4tech
Tade0 2mo ago
I stumbled upon this brand when I was looking for a hall effect QMK keyboard. Glad to see them introducing this - I might make a purchase as while my current mouse is great, I can't customise it because the associated bloatware runs only on Windows.
theGeatZhopa 2mo ago
Hmm that opens up a way for cheating in games - have a Screengraber and image processing running directly communicate with mouse and let it calculate the distance to region of interest internally and then give out delta position. For the system, it looks like the mouse has been moved very fast and far
- kllrnohj 2mo ago
  it's hardly difficult to do that already. Like a Raspberry Pi Pico can be turned into a HID mouse rather easily: https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse/ https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse... and yes, hdmi/displayport capture -> ML object detection -> fake HID mouse to cheat is absolutely already a thing.
- orbital-decay 2mo ago
  There's a ton of low-latency proxy hardware meant for cheating that does exactly that, out of the box, for those too lazy to do it themselves on any devboard. It's not an excuse for closed source mouse firmware
- Graziano_M 2mo ago
  It's already being done. The fanciest game hacks use a custom PCI card to DMA game memory, read it on another computer, where it can do wallhacks and such. But also, the second computer can drive a virtual mouse and keyboard which is connected to the 'legit' PC to even aim/move/shoot for you.
- aprilnya 2mo ago
  Sorry, how does new mouse firmware open this up...? USB/HID is a standard that anyone can implement, right? Is it that hard to implement a HID mouse emulator?
  - fragmede 2mo ago
    it's hard enough that someone else having done and open-sourcing makes it easier for anyone else that wants it. It means you don't have to do that work.
fn-mote 2mo ago
Announces != releases. They claim 2027 Q1 will be the release date. Links below purporting to be “the repository” lead to a repo with no source code. Sorry, I’m cynical. An announcement 6-9 months ahead of release? Why? Right now it’s vaporware.
- bluGill 2mo ago
  Keychron is a real company with a good history so it isn't unreasonable to expect it and thus you shouldn't be too cynical. However don't confuse that with don't be cynical at all - many companies with a good history have canceled projects, and this is still vaporware.
- phoghed 2mo ago
  If they plan on developing it in the open and taking early contribution / feedback could be a valid (and good) reason.
  - palata 2mo ago
    Or it's (again) a brilliant idea from those marketing people, something along the lines of "let's announce something we don't have and see how it is received, so that we will see if there is interest or not". It's not even made up, I have seen marketing people actually do that.
- ssl-3 2mo ago
  I'm cynical, too, and I have good reason to be. I recently bought a Keychron TKL keyboard that uses Hall effect switches. It is, in my opinion, a lovely board to type on and so far I like it quite a lot. (Hopefully, this board with its socketed HE switches will serve longer than the previous board that had soldered Cherry MX Blues.) It was advertised as being open-source and supporting QMK. Not at some time in the mysterious future, but right then. (And that's still true right now -- the web page is unchanged.) But it does not have source available. The link for source code on the website lands at a Github page for a completely-unrelated keyboard, and I can't do anything at all with it using QMK. Extensive digging to find the source has resulted in zero positive results. In the case of this Keychron keyboard, the promise of source code consists of resolute lies more than it does vaporware: The source is stated to openly exist, but it does not exist. A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence. So yeah, anyway: The cynicism is valid.
m463 2mo ago
I bought a Q6 wired keyboard. Most solid keyboard I've ever owned. Only problem is the backlight didn't actually light up the keys. It wasn't fixable. first, the keys that came with the keyboard were opaque. And after the arduous task of replacing the keys with shine-through keycaps -- all the LEDs were positioned below the keystem instead of above, so the lettering wasn't illuminated. I would have loved to use that keyboard. Switched to steelseries apex pro.
landver 2mo ago
[dead]
effnorwood 2mo ago
Keychron announces it has too much time on its hands while never being Datahand.
- boobsbr 2mo ago
  If you want a DataHand replacement, take a look at https://svalboard.com/ https://svalboard.com/. Costs an arm and a leg, though.
  - effnorwood 2mo ago
    My brother. TY
aparihar 2mo ago
[dead]
OsrsNeedsf2P 2mo ago
I really wanted to like Keychron, but after spending 200$ on one of their high end keyboards, certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later. I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out. Felt like a waste
- abhinavk 2mo ago
  I am deep into custom keyboards but I only buy ones with hot swappable switches. Some keys like AWSDEHJKL etc are bound to fail sooner than others.
  - ComputerPerson 2mo ago
    The mechanical keyboard hobby takes patience; just look at firmware customization: testing litterally requires keystrokes. I'm on a Mac keyboard bent for the very reason, actually, Mouse firmware sounds very cool, though. If you could access a layer by holding down a central button, that could open up neat possibilities.
  - fwip 2mo ago
    And all of us have owned multiple keyboards that have lasted for years of daily heavy use without a single key failing. Even the $30 membranes you could buy at $local_retailer didn't fail in a month.
  - michaelt 2mo ago
    As the poster is saying "certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later" it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect, rather than a wear-out issue. Keychron say their mechanical switches last '50 million clicks' so to wear out after a month you'd have to be pressing the key 19 times a second, 24 hours a day.
- zamadatix 2mo ago
  Same. I ended up resoldering nearly all of the contact points (i.e. not the hot swap contact points but where those connect to the main board) because I liked the keyboard and firmware so much but it was such a stupid problem (way too little solder from the factory) for such an otherwise good and high end keyboard.
userbinator 2mo ago
Never have I thought "I want a mouse with modifiable firmware", IMHO this is only going to lead to more bugs arising from the associated increase in complexity and the "we can always fix it later" mentality. All the mouses and keyboards I've used have a mask-programmed MCU, and essentially no bugs to speak of.
- rincebrain 2mo ago
  I think the point is less to add features and more to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice, since, as you said, in large part keyboards and mice are appliances to the degree that it should rapidly converge to a stable set of features. Plus, on a human level, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams working on mouse development were annoyed they couldn't show their past work in the same way...
  - userbinator 2mo ago
    to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice The barrier is absolutely not firmware; you can get a single-chip sensor with a USB + PS/2 interface for cheap, no firmware required, and it's just plug-and-play on any PC. The mechanical design is the biggest hurdle. https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse
    - rincebrain 2mo ago
      I would imagine that it's plug and play until you start adding nonsense like customizable scripting on buttons or more than a certain button count as is standard on specialized gamer mice, but sure, fair enough. "This is a platform you can build on", software and hardware specs included, is still a much nicer thing to iterate on than "it's commodity parts to slap together" for someone without familiarity with the processes involved at scale, and going from "this is an opaque piece of hardware that responds on guaranteed timing" to "this responds on guaranteed timing but also has more complex features" is still a substantial jump, since "building software that meets realtime timing requirements" is not a thing in a lot of people's wheelhouse.
- deleted 2mo ago
MayeulC 2mo ago
Hmm, I have a mouse and trackballs from ploopy, they run QMK, so why was a new project needed? What is the added value? To me, the missing feature in the QMK ecosystem is a devices too device communication channel. For now there is only caps lock & others: it would be nice to activate a mouse layer (for instance: increase DPI) to a keyboard key. It is probably solvable if a heavyweight was to push for new HID descriptors or something similar.
- wongogue 2mo ago
  Has anyone hacked a scroll-lock based signalling solution for this.
tmvphil 2mo ago
Cool, I like Keychron products, but can people really not even write a single tweet without using AI to speak for them now?
deepthaw 2mo ago
It took me three hours to figure out how to blacklist my Keychron keyboard from showing up as a joystick - and screwing up several games that thought they were receiving constant joystick input - in Linux, so I'm not sure how keen I am on using their stuff in the future. Is that a common issue in Linux?
- jeddy3 2mo ago
  I can at least say that it's not endemic. I have two different Keychron keyboards, used in different Linux distros. I have never experienced, and wouldn't even had imagined, such a scenario.
  - deepthaw 2mo ago
    Probably depends on the specific device and specific game. I ended up using some info from here. https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
  - aprilnya 2mo ago
    I think this has to do with their 2.4G dongle for their wireless keyboards - it shows up as a DirectInput (but not XInput) controller for me on Windows for whatever reason. The keyboard itself doesn't though.
  - ssl-3 2mo ago
    I can imagine it very easily, depending on the keyboard. For example: The Keychron C3 HE I'm typing this on (which I ranted elsehere about lacking the open-source/QMK firmware it is advertised to have) has some peculiar features that it supports. The way they used Hall effect keyswitches lets some fun stuff happen. That fun stuff includes 3 different modes: One is just a keyboard, and the other two modes let the keyboard behave exactly like a game controller. At least one of those game controller modes even lets keys behave as analog inputs. I haven't knowingly used this keyboard in game controller mode, but perhaps it is something can be selected by software (in addition to the multi-key combo listed in the book).
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
Pet_Ant 2mo ago
I hope they make a wired one. Ideally with a detachable USB-C for when the cat eventually chews on it.
unbolted3032 2mo ago
I bought two (identical) of these keyboards and they're by far the worst keyboard I've ever purchased. OOB, both had Bluetooth stability issues, dropping out at least 1-2 times a day, resulting in a sustained keypress being interpreted by the OS while they reconnectedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd. Vendor support suggested upgrading the firmware (I was on the latest firmware) so I followed their instruction - which nuked the keyboard's ability to use Bluetooth at all. No refund or replacement offered by vendor after reporting this. I still use the non-broken one, exclusively in wired mode, and EVERY single time I use it, I have to perform the factory reset (Fn + z + j) in order to get the lights to work. Otherwise, cycling through the presets simply dims them until they're not visible. I'm yet to find anybody with the same problems as me.
- elictronic 2mo ago
  Greetings and salutations. Same issue on two seperate keychron keyboards with repeating key presses I purchased for wife and myself. She ran hers on a Mac and I am on a windows gaming rig. I tried changing the key, updating firmware, different cord and wireless, and just got tired of it and threw them both into my backup in case of closet. I saw so many positive comments about these keyboards but will never buy another after getting burned twice. I don’t think everyone is BSing but getting two lemons is weird and makes me second guess the positive comments. I never contacted support, just found repair routes online. I had spent enough time faffing about with them, few hundred dollars wasn’t worth my time after that.
- u8080 2mo ago
  This is probably because of shitty Cypress/Infineon "iton_bt" bluetooth module used. Do you have K2/K6 ?
bana-io 2mo ago
Keychron, I own two of your keyboards, actually three. If you want to send me an evaluation version of this mouse or even a sample reach out to me at m@bana.io. Keep up the good work. Biggest change I would request is a password before macros are allowed to be used. I store some sensitive information in macros because I hate typing them out so a feature to unlock macros when the device is first powered up would be great. Example: 1. Device powers off. 2. Lock macros keys. 3. Device powers on. 4. Show led indicating that macros are locked. 5. Enter password to unlock macros. 6. Led indicator turns green or some other colour to indicate that lock was successful upon entering password. 7. Macros can then be used. Any other ideas would be great.
ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago
Is it on QMK? It's GPL so it would require publishing the source anyway.
burner420042 2mo ago
The number of buttons on ergonomic mice is excessive. More than 3 is too much. So I'm sitting there wondering what else you could use them for: a random squiggler to keep the mouse moving and your monitor active when you want a break.
- supriyo-biswas 2mo ago
  I had a Logitech ergonomic mouse and by default, the two extra buttons corresponded to forward/back, and I had gotten quite used to them for navigating codebases. It's a shame the mouse didn't last long, though... As for the squiggler, put a wrist watch or something underneath it?
  - burner420042 1mo ago
    I think that's a myth. I've never gotten it to work repeatedly.
- aaviator42 2mo ago
  When doing image editing and text copy editing, I find it very handy to have mouse thumb buttons mapped to copy / paste / cut / undo / redo / delete / shift / ctrl. Allows me to do a lot more with my mouse when I'm using it anyway to do stuff, without having to switch back and forth repeatedly with my keyboard.
  - burner420042 1mo ago
    Yes I agree. This idea differs from an OS dependent shortcut in that here the mouse firmware would generate movement data. Not possible before now.
DuncanCoffee 2mo ago
Crossing my fingers for an open source MMO mouse. While many linux solutions exists which allow you to use the side buttons macro on board, and sometimes to create new ones, Corsair had a feature where the side buttons template switched based on the foreground window, I loved always having the correct one for firefox, intellij and even games.
yashau 2mo ago
Too bad Keychron quality of late has been horrendous. Support has been abysmal too. They've gone from a beloved manufacturer to basically public enemy number 1 in the enthusiast communities.
RandomMarius 2mo ago
But can it run DOOM? My Pulsar mouse has an OLED display on the underside, DOOM could work... :P But it won't be able to use the firmware, neither would my Gaming Gear OP1. I already have 2 Keychron HE TKL keyboards, both configured and used under Linux, and it was such a breath of fresh air to configure. I'll definitely consider their mice in the future.

442 points by JLO64 2mo ago

This is going to be used for cheating / hacking in games.

JLO64 2mo ago

I’ve had positive experiences with Keychron products in the past, but I’ve moved past them as I now prefer orthogonal layouts. That said, I loved their support of QMK on my Q1 Pro and I really hope this ends up on that same level.

loloquwowndueo 2mo ago
Ortholinear, surely? Which one do you use/have now?
- JLO64 2mo ago
  You're right, I do have an ortholinear keyboard! I have an Inland MK-47 I bought on a whim from Microcenter, but it's been absolutely transformational. It did require a fair amount of setup though: - I swapped out the switched from crummy reds to some lubed Keychron Browns I had. - I had some custom keycaps made via https://yuzukeycaps.com/ https://yuzukeycaps.com/ since the ones it came with were abysmal. - I had to enlarge the cutout for the USB-C port in the case so it could fit cables other than the one it came with. - The default shortcuts/functions were bad so I had to customize it in QMK.
abhinavk 2mo ago
Do you mean really ortholinears like Planck or columnars like Corne, Sofle, Kinesis?
- JLO64 2mo ago
  My bad, I did mean "ortholinear"!

DemiGuru 2mo ago

For those that are interested: - https://github.com/Keychron/zgm https://github.com/Keychron/zgm - https://zgm.gg/ https://zgm.gg/

exidex 2mo ago
Um, did they announce opensource firmware without providing the source?
- robrtsql 2mo ago
  Yep! > This repository is currently in its early setup phase. > At the moment, the repository mainly contains project scaffolding, policy files, and the initial project direction. Firmware sources, board support, build instructions, and flashing guidance are still being prepared. > That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. The goal is not to wait until everything is finished before opening the door. The goal is to make the long-term direction visible and let the project grow into a useful open firmware platform in the open.
  - fwip 2mo ago
    > That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. "Intentionally early" is one of those phrases that means they vibed this README out in an hour with AI, and now hope that they can create firmware for it in the next 6 months.
- DemiGuru 2mo ago
  Based on what I understand, pull requests are coming. In the meantime they provide directions for people that want to contribute here -> https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md
  - martinjc 2mo ago
    Where are the PRs coming in? I see a repo without source code.

echelon 2mo ago

I suspect that a lot of hardware will start shipping open source firmware soon. Routers, IP cameras, etc. It'll be a selling point for everyone tinkering with vibe coding, and it's no longer a moat. Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools. Companies that do this will have community goodwill and extra distribution that comes from having people talking about your product.

dmitrygr 2mo ago
> Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools This is not as "one and done" as you make it sound.
warmwaffles 2mo ago
I suspect a lot of that firmware has NDAs with Broadcom attached.
- tancop 2mo ago
  thats not the blocker you think it is. they can "leak" the info, wait until broadcom lawyers notice, agree to investigate themselves and fire a random contractor (who gets paid on the side). they just need to do it outside of america to avoid discovery if anyone decides to sue them.
drnick1 2mo ago
> Routers, IP cameras, etc. Those already exist: OpenWRT, OpenIPC. I wish more hardware was available though, especially for cameras.
- loloquwowndueo 2mo ago
  Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend? I need surveillance cameras (outdoor mostly) but the cheap ones I found are a horrid proprietary mess. I even bought and returned one after the setup was complex and invasive. Basically all I need is access to the live stream from a raspberry pi where I can store and process the video.

lstodd 2mo ago

I still wait for someone to beat logitech m500 (released 2009) in ergonomics.

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

DobarDabar 2mo ago

Keychrone mice are already pretty nice, this is a welcome improvement

Evidlo 2mo ago
Their mice are pretty nice, and they come at a good price. The M7 is a particularly good device, and their other offerings have enticed me twice.
- bigfishrunning 2mo ago
  Thanks for being so concise
- DobarDabar 2mo ago
  [dead]

jchw 2mo ago

A bit ago I accidentally bought a Keychron keyboard that didn't have QMK support, but then found that someone had ported it anyway, and I was able to flash it and fix some problems I had (the main one being that it seems like the default firmware only scans a single row of keys while asleep, possibly to save energy, but I want any keypress to wake the computer.) Maybe it's not perfect, but the community around open source keyboard firmware is great, it's a good example of how open source is beneficial for end users, especially power users. And, in an era where vendor software and firmware for all kinds of devices is constantly having vulnerabilities, it is possible the liability of doing custom shit will eventually outweigh whatever benefits hardware companies seem to think it has, versus just having industry standards and free software instead. But, maybe that is wishful thinking. My only complaint with Keychron is that of 5 or so keyboards I've owned from them I wound up having to resolder 3 different hotswap sockets on 2 different keyboards right out of the box. That is... Not a fantastic failure rate. OTOH, they are otherwise an unambiguously great value, with materials and build quality that feels pretty impressive for the cost, QC issues notwithstanding.

martinjc 2mo ago
I bought a K4 Nordic version, only to learn none of their software supports it. So i can't reconfigure the firmware. The keyboard has swapped Super/Alt (Windows/Alt) on the windows layout which is so annoying. I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it, but i curse the engineer that burned the prom every day.
- benoau 2mo ago
  That sucks, the main reason I like KeyChron is the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows! I wouldn't buy another keyboard without this feature TBH.
  - martinjc 2mo ago
    Yeah on the mac it works fine. The keyboard just shipped with the Left Alt and Left Windows key in the correct positions, but they are mapped opposite in the firmware. Imagine how maddening it was in the beginning.

nijave 2mo ago

Hopefully better than their QMK fork. They force push over their branch in their fork each new release effectively erasing history of the last version... Of course there's no change log anywhere either...

seba_dos1 2mo ago
> effectively erasing history of the last version Does that mean they remove any release tags as well?
- nijave 2mo ago
  Iirc there are no release tags, they build off the tip of the branch Actually it's their zmk fork, not qmk https://github.com/Keychron/zmk/tree/rtl8762g https://github.com/Keychron/zmk/tree/rtl8762g
  - seba_dos1 2mo ago
    Perhaps asking them to tag the releases is all that's needed then.
warmwaffles 2mo ago
I don't blame them though. QMK is a mess of a monolithic repository.
- Graziano_M 2mo ago
  QMK should be thrown away. ZMK is much, much cleaner.
  - abhinavk 2mo ago
    Yep. I am waiting for half-duplex UART splitkb support to come so that I can move everything over.

matchstickman23 2mo ago

Very interesting. I've been eyeballing a mouse/trackball project for a while based on some of the open source designs like Ploopy and the like. Slap a Nordic chip on it and a joycon battery. Even better if you can cook up a wireless charging mousepad like Logitech offers!

jerlam 2mo ago

This would be more exciting if Keychron had mice of more interesting / experimental form factors and functionality. Just like their keyboards, their mice are mostly differentiated by obscure technical features (polling rates!). I'm a bit worried that a decent, modern replacement for the extremely obsolete multi-button mouse I have now (Logitech G602) will never be available.

100percentjake 2mo ago
I miss my G602 so much. Replaced it with a G604 and then replaced that one with another G604 and then a third G604 before realizing that Logi's build quality has seemingly dived off a cliff for the premium they charge for their product and swapped to the 50% as expensive Keychron mice and keyboards and have been satisfactorily living with the decrease in available buttons (though quite an adjustment was needed). Onset of carpal tunnel has seen me switch to a vertical mouse anyways, so a change was inevitable.
- big_toast 2mo ago
  I made the G602 to G604 to ?? transition. I ended up on the Razer Naga v2 Hyperspeed because I couldn't give up the dual mode scrolling. It functions very well but I'm waiting for it to break and find it discontinued like all the rest. I got it a few years ago now so I'm not sure what mice I considered. But I'm always curious to hear if people have found better mmo mice. The 12 buttons + 2 index buttons, the high dpi, the 2.4ghz, the two scroll modes. I really enjoy it.
minimaxir 2mo ago
My G602 died due to Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :( I've been fine with the G502 X Lightspeed (which should avoid said double-click issue due to optical switches) and some more efficient button use to compensate for the fewer side buttons.
- ErroneousBosh 2mo ago
  > Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :( Isn't that just the tact switch failing? Two minute job to replace...

WithinReason 2mo ago

I hope this leads to macro programmable mice, the only brand I know of that saves macros on board and supports while loops is A4tech

Tade0 2mo ago

I stumbled upon this brand when I was looking for a hall effect QMK keyboard. Glad to see them introducing this - I might make a purchase as while my current mouse is great, I can't customise it because the associated bloatware runs only on Windows.

theGeatZhopa 2mo ago

Hmm that opens up a way for cheating in games - have a Screengraber and image processing running directly communicate with mouse and let it calculate the distance to region of interest internally and then give out delta position. For the system, it looks like the mouse has been moved very fast and far

kllrnohj 2mo ago
it's hardly difficult to do that already. Like a Raspberry Pi Pico can be turned into a HID mouse rather easily: https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse/ https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse... and yes, hdmi/displayport capture -> ML object detection -> fake HID mouse to cheat is absolutely already a thing.
orbital-decay 2mo ago
There's a ton of low-latency proxy hardware meant for cheating that does exactly that, out of the box, for those too lazy to do it themselves on any devboard. It's not an excuse for closed source mouse firmware
Graziano_M 2mo ago
It's already being done. The fanciest game hacks use a custom PCI card to DMA game memory, read it on another computer, where it can do wallhacks and such. But also, the second computer can drive a virtual mouse and keyboard which is connected to the 'legit' PC to even aim/move/shoot for you.
aprilnya 2mo ago
Sorry, how does new mouse firmware open this up...? USB/HID is a standard that anyone can implement, right? Is it that hard to implement a HID mouse emulator?
- fragmede 2mo ago
  it's hard enough that someone else having done and open-sourcing makes it easier for anyone else that wants it. It means you don't have to do that work.

fn-mote 2mo ago

Announces != releases. They claim 2027 Q1 will be the release date. Links below purporting to be “the repository” lead to a repo with no source code. Sorry, I’m cynical. An announcement 6-9 months ahead of release? Why? Right now it’s vaporware.

bluGill 2mo ago
Keychron is a real company with a good history so it isn't unreasonable to expect it and thus you shouldn't be too cynical. However don't confuse that with don't be cynical at all - many companies with a good history have canceled projects, and this is still vaporware.
phoghed 2mo ago
If they plan on developing it in the open and taking early contribution / feedback could be a valid (and good) reason.
- palata 2mo ago
  Or it's (again) a brilliant idea from those marketing people, something along the lines of "let's announce something we don't have and see how it is received, so that we will see if there is interest or not". It's not even made up, I have seen marketing people actually do that.
ssl-3 2mo ago
I'm cynical, too, and I have good reason to be. I recently bought a Keychron TKL keyboard that uses Hall effect switches. It is, in my opinion, a lovely board to type on and so far I like it quite a lot. (Hopefully, this board with its socketed HE switches will serve longer than the previous board that had soldered Cherry MX Blues.) It was advertised as being open-source and supporting QMK. Not at some time in the mysterious future, but right then. (And that's still true right now -- the web page is unchanged.) But it does not have source available. The link for source code on the website lands at a Github page for a completely-unrelated keyboard, and I can't do anything at all with it using QMK. Extensive digging to find the source has resulted in zero positive results. In the case of this Keychron keyboard, the promise of source code consists of resolute lies more than it does vaporware: The source is stated to openly exist, but it does not exist. A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence. So yeah, anyway: The cynicism is valid.

m463 2mo ago

I bought a Q6 wired keyboard. Most solid keyboard I've ever owned. Only problem is the backlight didn't actually light up the keys. It wasn't fixable. first, the keys that came with the keyboard were opaque. And after the arduous task of replacing the keys with shine-through keycaps -- all the LEDs were positioned below the keystem instead of above, so the lettering wasn't illuminated. I would have loved to use that keyboard. Switched to steelseries apex pro.

landver 2mo ago

[dead]

effnorwood 2mo ago

Keychron announces it has too much time on its hands while never being Datahand.

boobsbr 2mo ago
If you want a DataHand replacement, take a look at https://svalboard.com/ https://svalboard.com/. Costs an arm and a leg, though.
- effnorwood 2mo ago
  My brother. TY

aparihar 2mo ago

[dead]

OsrsNeedsf2P 2mo ago

I really wanted to like Keychron, but after spending 200$ on one of their high end keyboards, certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later. I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out. Felt like a waste

abhinavk 2mo ago
I am deep into custom keyboards but I only buy ones with hot swappable switches. Some keys like AWSDEHJKL etc are bound to fail sooner than others.
- ComputerPerson 2mo ago
  The mechanical keyboard hobby takes patience; just look at firmware customization: testing litterally requires keystrokes. I'm on a Mac keyboard bent for the very reason, actually, Mouse firmware sounds very cool, though. If you could access a layer by holding down a central button, that could open up neat possibilities.
- fwip 2mo ago
  And all of us have owned multiple keyboards that have lasted for years of daily heavy use without a single key failing. Even the $30 membranes you could buy at $local_retailer didn't fail in a month.
- michaelt 2mo ago
  As the poster is saying "certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later" it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect, rather than a wear-out issue. Keychron say their mechanical switches last '50 million clicks' so to wear out after a month you'd have to be pressing the key 19 times a second, 24 hours a day.
zamadatix 2mo ago
Same. I ended up resoldering nearly all of the contact points (i.e. not the hot swap contact points but where those connect to the main board) because I liked the keyboard and firmware so much but it was such a stupid problem (way too little solder from the factory) for such an otherwise good and high end keyboard.

userbinator 2mo ago

Never have I thought "I want a mouse with modifiable firmware", IMHO this is only going to lead to more bugs arising from the associated increase in complexity and the "we can always fix it later" mentality. All the mouses and keyboards I've used have a mask-programmed MCU, and essentially no bugs to speak of.

rincebrain 2mo ago
I think the point is less to add features and more to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice, since, as you said, in large part keyboards and mice are appliances to the degree that it should rapidly converge to a stable set of features. Plus, on a human level, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams working on mouse development were annoyed they couldn't show their past work in the same way...
- userbinator 2mo ago
  to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice The barrier is absolutely not firmware; you can get a single-chip sensor with a USB + PS/2 interface for cheap, no firmware required, and it's just plug-and-play on any PC. The mechanical design is the biggest hurdle. https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse
  - rincebrain 2mo ago
    I would imagine that it's plug and play until you start adding nonsense like customizable scripting on buttons or more than a certain button count as is standard on specialized gamer mice, but sure, fair enough. "This is a platform you can build on", software and hardware specs included, is still a much nicer thing to iterate on than "it's commodity parts to slap together" for someone without familiarity with the processes involved at scale, and going from "this is an opaque piece of hardware that responds on guaranteed timing" to "this responds on guaranteed timing but also has more complex features" is still a substantial jump, since "building software that meets realtime timing requirements" is not a thing in a lot of people's wheelhouse.
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MayeulC 2mo ago

Hmm, I have a mouse and trackballs from ploopy, they run QMK, so why was a new project needed? What is the added value? To me, the missing feature in the QMK ecosystem is a devices too device communication channel. For now there is only caps lock & others: it would be nice to activate a mouse layer (for instance: increase DPI) to a keyboard key. It is probably solvable if a heavyweight was to push for new HID descriptors or something similar.

wongogue 2mo ago
Has anyone hacked a scroll-lock based signalling solution for this.

tmvphil 2mo ago

Cool, I like Keychron products, but can people really not even write a single tweet without using AI to speak for them now?

deepthaw 2mo ago

It took me three hours to figure out how to blacklist my Keychron keyboard from showing up as a joystick - and screwing up several games that thought they were receiving constant joystick input - in Linux, so I'm not sure how keen I am on using their stuff in the future. Is that a common issue in Linux?

jeddy3 2mo ago
I can at least say that it's not endemic. I have two different Keychron keyboards, used in different Linux distros. I have never experienced, and wouldn't even had imagined, such a scenario.
- deepthaw 2mo ago
  Probably depends on the specific device and specific game. I ended up using some info from here. https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
- aprilnya 2mo ago
  I think this has to do with their 2.4G dongle for their wireless keyboards - it shows up as a DirectInput (but not XInput) controller for me on Windows for whatever reason. The keyboard itself doesn't though.
- ssl-3 2mo ago
  I can imagine it very easily, depending on the keyboard. For example: The Keychron C3 HE I'm typing this on (which I ranted elsehere about lacking the open-source/QMK firmware it is advertised to have) has some peculiar features that it supports. The way they used Hall effect keyswitches lets some fun stuff happen. That fun stuff includes 3 different modes: One is just a keyboard, and the other two modes let the keyboard behave exactly like a game controller. At least one of those game controller modes even lets keys behave as analog inputs. I haven't knowingly used this keyboard in game controller mode, but perhaps it is something can be selected by software (in addition to the multi-key combo listed in the book).

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Pet_Ant 2mo ago

I hope they make a wired one. Ideally with a detachable USB-C for when the cat eventually chews on it.

unbolted3032 2mo ago

I bought two (identical) of these keyboards and they're by far the worst keyboard I've ever purchased. OOB, both had Bluetooth stability issues, dropping out at least 1-2 times a day, resulting in a sustained keypress being interpreted by the OS while they reconnectedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd. Vendor support suggested upgrading the firmware (I was on the latest firmware) so I followed their instruction - which nuked the keyboard's ability to use Bluetooth at all. No refund or replacement offered by vendor after reporting this. I still use the non-broken one, exclusively in wired mode, and EVERY single time I use it, I have to perform the factory reset (Fn + z + j) in order to get the lights to work. Otherwise, cycling through the presets simply dims them until they're not visible. I'm yet to find anybody with the same problems as me.

elictronic 2mo ago
Greetings and salutations. Same issue on two seperate keychron keyboards with repeating key presses I purchased for wife and myself. She ran hers on a Mac and I am on a windows gaming rig. I tried changing the key, updating firmware, different cord and wireless, and just got tired of it and threw them both into my backup in case of closet. I saw so many positive comments about these keyboards but will never buy another after getting burned twice. I don’t think everyone is BSing but getting two lemons is weird and makes me second guess the positive comments. I never contacted support, just found repair routes online. I had spent enough time faffing about with them, few hundred dollars wasn’t worth my time after that.
u8080 2mo ago
This is probably because of shitty Cypress/Infineon "iton_bt" bluetooth module used. Do you have K2/K6 ?

bana-io 2mo ago

Keychron, I own two of your keyboards, actually three. If you want to send me an evaluation version of this mouse or even a sample reach out to me at m@bana.io. Keep up the good work. Biggest change I would request is a password before macros are allowed to be used. I store some sensitive information in macros because I hate typing them out so a feature to unlock macros when the device is first powered up would be great. Example: 1. Device powers off. 2. Lock macros keys. 3. Device powers on. 4. Show led indicating that macros are locked. 5. Enter password to unlock macros. 6. Led indicator turns green or some other colour to indicate that lock was successful upon entering password. 7. Macros can then be used. Any other ideas would be great.

ShinyLeftPad 2mo ago

Is it on QMK? It's GPL so it would require publishing the source anyway.

burner420042 2mo ago

The number of buttons on ergonomic mice is excessive. More than 3 is too much. So I'm sitting there wondering what else you could use them for: a random squiggler to keep the mouse moving and your monitor active when you want a break.

supriyo-biswas 2mo ago
I had a Logitech ergonomic mouse and by default, the two extra buttons corresponded to forward/back, and I had gotten quite used to them for navigating codebases. It's a shame the mouse didn't last long, though... As for the squiggler, put a wrist watch or something underneath it?
- burner420042 1mo ago
  I think that's a myth. I've never gotten it to work repeatedly.
aaviator42 2mo ago
When doing image editing and text copy editing, I find it very handy to have mouse thumb buttons mapped to copy / paste / cut / undo / redo / delete / shift / ctrl. Allows me to do a lot more with my mouse when I'm using it anyway to do stuff, without having to switch back and forth repeatedly with my keyboard.
- burner420042 1mo ago
  Yes I agree. This idea differs from an OS dependent shortcut in that here the mouse firmware would generate movement data. Not possible before now.

DuncanCoffee 2mo ago

Crossing my fingers for an open source MMO mouse. While many linux solutions exists which allow you to use the side buttons macro on board, and sometimes to create new ones, Corsair had a feature where the side buttons template switched based on the foreground window, I loved always having the correct one for firefox, intellij and even games.

yashau 2mo ago

Too bad Keychron quality of late has been horrendous. Support has been abysmal too. They've gone from a beloved manufacturer to basically public enemy number 1 in the enthusiast communities.

RandomMarius 2mo ago

But can it run DOOM? My Pulsar mouse has an OLED display on the underside, DOOM could work... :P But it won't be able to use the firmware, neither would my Gaming Gear OP1. I already have 2 Keychron HE TKL keyboards, both configured and used under Linux, and it was such a breath of fresh air to configure. I'll definitely consider their mice in the future.