6 ms·

Visa application is riddled with scams. From the simple website that charges you twice the price to websites that will tell you that you were rejected and then

Visa application is riddled with scams. From the simple website that charges you twice the price to websites that will tell you that you were rejected and then fake your documents to get in with your name. So they're probably trying to see that you're not one of those web servers, a proxy for them or detect some known C2 channels.

jaimehrubiks 1y ago
This is a very clever answer.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
testdelacc1 1y ago
Another data point - 5he Indian visa system is similar. The official website ending in .gov.in, which is hard to find, offers a visa for $10 and minimal hassle. The scam websites, with better SEO sell the same shit for $80. They’re just proxying your application to the real website and pocketing the difference. It would be good if the Indian government could block the scammers but I guess it’s a lower priority for the moment.
- mdp2021 1y ago
  [dead]
- sumedh 1y ago
  The scam websites are probably owned by someone who works in the Indian govt.
  - p3rls 1y ago
    Almost certainly, entire industries have been given over to indian scammers and their government allies.
    - cyanydeez 1y ago
      Modhi, for one
    - tonyhart7 1y ago
      damn bro, how bad situation on there???? I know that Indian scam stereotype is racist and bad but how much it is "that bad"
  - datadrivenangel 1y ago
    This was the case with Ghana. The Embassy in the US had an unofficial offical partnership with an expediter scam (charge more for faster shipping, looks very official). They fired the whole visa staff when it finally came to light. Probably because someone forgot to let their manager's manager in on the scam.
- bluGill 1y ago
  I found the real website, but the application never went through, always some issue. My boss told me which service to use and everything just worked. (I could expense that service so cost didn't bother me)
  - ghaff 1y ago
    My understanding is that India visa processing improved quite a bit. Back when I was speaking internationally quite a bit, I actually had to cancel trips to India on two separate occasions because of delays in getting visas. (Once was under the old visa system and the other was because of delays in switching to a new system. Both times were through a visa expediting service.)
- somenameforme 1y ago
  Not sure if this is the case for India, but I've experienced similar situations for other countries, but the 'scam websites' actually provided a real service - if you needed some ultra-urgent processing (like you only realized you needed a visa to this country before boarding a flight, once you were already at the airport check-in...) they were able to provide 30 minute approval, whereas the official site's accelerated processing was 24 hours. So obviously the only way they could to this is with government contacts meaning the government themselves could already do it, but a lot of immigration stuff everywhere is full of people taking kickbacks.
  - testdelacc1 1y ago
    No the scammers were slower than the official Indian website.
actionfromafar 1y ago
If the proxy scams are just a little clever, they'll run the proxy on an another IP.
dns_snek 1y ago
Huh, how do you imagine that would work? This "scan" is happening inside client-side javascript, delivering the file through a proxy wouldn't "detect" anything about the proxy.
- JosephRedfern 1y ago
  I imagine it may not be a proxy in the true sense, but a headless browser that's "proxying" the application process rather than the network traffic itself.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Proxy is being used in the traditional sense here. It’s common for a business (scam or legit) to handle visa applications on behalf of customers.
mrtksn 1y ago
That would be quite clever for an incredibly horrible website. The other day my SO, who is a Turkish citizen, was filling up her visa application and after half an hour of meticulous form filling the system just kick her out. I think the session times out or something. If you haven't created an account or you haven't write down the current application ID everything is lost. In the process she was also directed to a non-.gov website for something during the process, I thought she was getting scammed but no. It actually makes sense to have a paid service that makes this abomination less painful. Though they work with VFS Global for collecting the applications and relevant documents, the VFS Global itself is an abomination and doesn't help with the handling of the form filling anyway. Recently EU streamlined the Schengen visa application process for Turkish citizens as those "visa agencies" that are the official agencies and the only way to apply for a visa for many countries don't actually help with anything and are scamming people by selling the "good hours" for the visa appointment on the black market. An agency was dropped for this and the scams by agencies were listed among the reasons to streamline the application process. Both with US and EU people are losing scholarships etc. due to outrageous wait times that are sometimes are years ahead or there's an issue with the systems handling the applications. I guess there must be an opportunity there to fix all this together with smaller stuff like handling transliteration and character encodings, I wonder if some of those scam site are not scams and actually help with it. An AI agent can be useful here.
- paganel 1y ago
  The hard truth of it all is that both the US and (partially) the EU don’t want to make this easier because seeing as wanting “outside” people is now a political liability. You may want to adjust your expectations around that.
  - mrtksn 1y ago
    Turkish tourist are desired, Turks love spending money on restaurants and activities especially since the prices in Turkey have become more expensive than most of the EU. Greeks even introduced special non-Schengen on-arrival visa valid on the Greek islands especially for the Turks. Besides that, EU has "green passport" exception for the Turkish nationals, where they can travel visa-free on this kind of passport that is provided to individuals that meet certain criteria and millions of such passports were issued. The rejection rates are also not bad and EU has a "return agreement" with Turkey, which is designed to keep the middle eastern refugees in Turkey(essentially, if you come from Turkey EU can send you back to Turkey right away ). Crime rates for Turks show up among the lowest ones, unlike others from the region. So I don't think that EU is trying to reduce visas for Turks.
ChrisRR 1y ago
I'm not too familiar with network side stuff. What would a port scan be able to detect that would indicate that you're a scammer?
- Thorrez 1y ago
  Just a guess, but maybe a typical bot has a webserver, ssh server, some other servers running on the same machine, whereas a typical Visa applicant doesn't.
  - immibis 1y ago
    Or a browser automation server (Marionette/CDP). I seem to remember watching a presentation where it was mentioned you could detect them this way, <s>but I don't remember where or what it was called.</s> this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZD6ee2Xo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZD6ee2Xo8 (WHY2025: Stealth Web Scraping Techniques for OSINT)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
1oooqooq 1y ago
it's riddled with scams, and thinking any of this will detect any of the things you mention is very foolish, native and show a total lack of understanding of the scams. of you think using a proxy is essential for visa scam, i would even know where to begin to correct you. it's one hundred per cent clueless privacy invasion. they are probably also opening ports via other means and using that for side channel ID like Facebook does. just like any other documentation scam, the only weak point is on the "last mile" that's why you will always have a human interviewer. the visa process is abusive and unpractical because people will work around any hurdle and their kpi will never be affected no matter how crappy they manage to make to whole process. or how many doge kids implement useless privacy invasion tech just because.

jaimehrubiks 1y ago

This is a very clever answer.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

testdelacc1 1y ago

Another data point - 5he Indian visa system is similar. The official website ending in .gov.in, which is hard to find, offers a visa for $10 and minimal hassle. The scam websites, with better SEO sell the same shit for $80. They’re just proxying your application to the real website and pocketing the difference. It would be good if the Indian government could block the scammers but I guess it’s a lower priority for the moment.

mdp2021 1y ago
[dead]
sumedh 1y ago
The scam websites are probably owned by someone who works in the Indian govt.
- p3rls 1y ago
  Almost certainly, entire industries have been given over to indian scammers and their government allies.
  - cyanydeez 1y ago
    Modhi, for one
  - tonyhart7 1y ago
    damn bro, how bad situation on there???? I know that Indian scam stereotype is racist and bad but how much it is "that bad"
- datadrivenangel 1y ago
  This was the case with Ghana. The Embassy in the US had an unofficial offical partnership with an expediter scam (charge more for faster shipping, looks very official). They fired the whole visa staff when it finally came to light. Probably because someone forgot to let their manager's manager in on the scam.
bluGill 1y ago
I found the real website, but the application never went through, always some issue. My boss told me which service to use and everything just worked. (I could expense that service so cost didn't bother me)
- ghaff 1y ago
  My understanding is that India visa processing improved quite a bit. Back when I was speaking internationally quite a bit, I actually had to cancel trips to India on two separate occasions because of delays in getting visas. (Once was under the old visa system and the other was because of delays in switching to a new system. Both times were through a visa expediting service.)
somenameforme 1y ago
Not sure if this is the case for India, but I've experienced similar situations for other countries, but the 'scam websites' actually provided a real service - if you needed some ultra-urgent processing (like you only realized you needed a visa to this country before boarding a flight, once you were already at the airport check-in...) they were able to provide 30 minute approval, whereas the official site's accelerated processing was 24 hours. So obviously the only way they could to this is with government contacts meaning the government themselves could already do it, but a lot of immigration stuff everywhere is full of people taking kickbacks.
- testdelacc1 1y ago
  No the scammers were slower than the official Indian website.

actionfromafar 1y ago

If the proxy scams are just a little clever, they'll run the proxy on an another IP.

dns_snek 1y ago

Huh, how do you imagine that would work? This "scan" is happening inside client-side javascript, delivering the file through a proxy wouldn't "detect" anything about the proxy.

JosephRedfern 1y ago
I imagine it may not be a proxy in the true sense, but a headless browser that's "proxying" the application process rather than the network traffic itself.
alistairSH 1y ago
Proxy is being used in the traditional sense here. It’s common for a business (scam or legit) to handle visa applications on behalf of customers.

mrtksn 1y ago

That would be quite clever for an incredibly horrible website. The other day my SO, who is a Turkish citizen, was filling up her visa application and after half an hour of meticulous form filling the system just kick her out. I think the session times out or something. If you haven't created an account or you haven't write down the current application ID everything is lost. In the process she was also directed to a non-.gov website for something during the process, I thought she was getting scammed but no. It actually makes sense to have a paid service that makes this abomination less painful. Though they work with VFS Global for collecting the applications and relevant documents, the VFS Global itself is an abomination and doesn't help with the handling of the form filling anyway. Recently EU streamlined the Schengen visa application process for Turkish citizens as those "visa agencies" that are the official agencies and the only way to apply for a visa for many countries don't actually help with anything and are scamming people by selling the "good hours" for the visa appointment on the black market. An agency was dropped for this and the scams by agencies were listed among the reasons to streamline the application process. Both with US and EU people are losing scholarships etc. due to outrageous wait times that are sometimes are years ahead or there's an issue with the systems handling the applications. I guess there must be an opportunity there to fix all this together with smaller stuff like handling transliteration and character encodings, I wonder if some of those scam site are not scams and actually help with it. An AI agent can be useful here.

paganel 1y ago
The hard truth of it all is that both the US and (partially) the EU don’t want to make this easier because seeing as wanting “outside” people is now a political liability. You may want to adjust your expectations around that.
- mrtksn 1y ago
  Turkish tourist are desired, Turks love spending money on restaurants and activities especially since the prices in Turkey have become more expensive than most of the EU. Greeks even introduced special non-Schengen on-arrival visa valid on the Greek islands especially for the Turks. Besides that, EU has "green passport" exception for the Turkish nationals, where they can travel visa-free on this kind of passport that is provided to individuals that meet certain criteria and millions of such passports were issued. The rejection rates are also not bad and EU has a "return agreement" with Turkey, which is designed to keep the middle eastern refugees in Turkey(essentially, if you come from Turkey EU can send you back to Turkey right away ). Crime rates for Turks show up among the lowest ones, unlike others from the region. So I don't think that EU is trying to reduce visas for Turks.

ChrisRR 1y ago

I'm not too familiar with network side stuff. What would a port scan be able to detect that would indicate that you're a scammer?

Thorrez 1y ago
Just a guess, but maybe a typical bot has a webserver, ssh server, some other servers running on the same machine, whereas a typical Visa applicant doesn't.
- immibis 1y ago
  Or a browser automation server (Marionette/CDP). I seem to remember watching a presentation where it was mentioned you could detect them this way, <s>but I don't remember where or what it was called.</s> this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZD6ee2Xo8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZD6ee2Xo8 (WHY2025: Stealth Web Scraping Techniques for OSINT)
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

1oooqooq 1y ago

it's riddled with scams, and thinking any of this will detect any of the things you mention is very foolish, native and show a total lack of understanding of the scams. of you think using a proxy is essential for visa scam, i would even know where to begin to correct you. it's one hundred per cent clueless privacy invasion. they are probably also opening ports via other means and using that for side channel ID like Facebook does. just like any other documentation scam, the only weak point is on the "last mile" that's why you will always have a human interviewer. the visa process is abusive and unpractical because people will work around any hurdle and their kpi will never be affected no matter how crappy they manage to make to whole process. or how many doge kids implement useless privacy invasion tech just because.