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The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resound
by dan_can_code 2y ago
The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe.
- mjfl 2y agoReposting because my previous comment was unjustly flagged: The US just facilitated a genocide in the previous administration. This is not just me saying this - this is the consensus ruling of the International Court of Justice at the UN.
- emmelaich 2y agoICJ has not done so; it will take years to make a determination. (And it should fail IMHO). And I don't think that the US was mentioned by the ICJ, even if it had confirmed genocide.
- mjfl 2y agothey ruled that it was plausible enough to pursue the case
- freshpots 2y agoBarring all of the hyperbole of your comment, I find it astounding how you're unaware of this with such a "thumb on the pulse" of world news: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/feb/04/benjamin-netanyahu-donald-trump-israel-gaza-middle-east-ceasefire-latest-live-news https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/feb/04/benjamin-... Trump said Palestinians have “no alternative” but to “permanently” leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas. He described Gaza as a “pure demolition site” and claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”. “I don’t know how they could want to stay,” he said. Trump’s comments marked the first time he has publicly floated the permanent relocation of Palestinians from Gaza. The US president’s remarks in effect endorsed ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries. Trump is literally for completely ridding Gaza of the Palestinians so Israel can colonize it. An ACTUAL genocide.
- tehjoker 2y ago> Trump is literally for completely ridding Gaza of the Palestinians so Israel can colonize it. An ACTUAL genocide. This was the goal of the Biden administration. The difference now is that without Israel demolishing Gaza every day, the resistance has demonstrated they cannot be dislodged. Trump has no credibility. They simply cannot do it and both the U.S. and Israeli officials that enabled this are war criminals that should be prosecuted immediately.
- mjfl 2y agoThe consensus ruling of the International Court of Justice is not hyperbole, it's a fact. Are you going to call the UN antisemitic like Benjamin Netanyahu did? And actually, you in fact can argue that Trump has been better on the issue than Biden. Multiple news outlets have reported that it was Trump that forced the ceasefire: - https://www.wsj.com/opinion/trump-forced-netanyahu-to-make-a-deal-with-the-devil-israel-hamas-db48045f https://www.wsj.com/opinion/trump-forced-netanyahu-to-make-a... - https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=64825 https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=64825 - https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-13/ty-article/.premium/trumps-mideast-envoy-forced-netanyahu-to-accept-a-gaza-plan-he-repeatedly-rejected/00000194-615c-d4d0-a1f4-fbfdce850000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-13/ty-article/.p... - https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-official-trump-envoy-swayed-netanyahu-more-in-one-meeting-than-biden-did-all-year/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-official-trump-envoy-sway... Everything you find with regarding Trump is rhetoric while his actions have been much more peaceful than Biden's. Which brings me back to my main point: it's absurd and hysterical to be claiming that Trump is uniquely fascist here. Whoever is freaking out now about him, and was not freaking out about Biden, is a fraud and should be called out as a fraud.
- csa 2y ago> The cynic in me thinks that the US is going to roll over and take this fascist shake down. The optimist in me thinks that the people will rise up with a resounding NO and do something about it. Right now I'm not sure which I believe. At this point, almost certainly the former. 1. Most Trump supporters do not think that there is a problem. 2. “Regular people” — that is, the folks who don’t track news — won’t notice any problems in their day-to-day lives until after said shakedown has been completed. The only way large swathes of people will demand action is if they are hit hard in the wallets in an immediate and clear way (e.g., rapid price increases to one or more critical goods or services) or if a critical process (e.g., social security checks) gets disrupted. I’m not sure the current types of changes will reach that level.
- nerdponx 2y agoI don't know why you're being downvoted. > 1. Most Trump supporters do not think that there is a problem. Talk to any conservative -- even people who are/were skeptical of Trump -- or browse any conservative-leaning social media. It's clear that the people who voted for Trump fully understood what they voted for: they wanted what's happening. Project 2025 is a good thing in the eyes of many. Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful, but in the eyes of literally millions of Americans, it's a means to a well-justified and long-awaited end.
- csa 2y ago> Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful, but in the eyes of literally millions of Americans, it's a means to a well-justified and long-awaited end. This is a very tight and succinct summary of many conversations I’ve had with conservative family and acquaintances. > I don't know why you're being downvoted. The votes on my comment are going up and down like a yo-yo. I’m pretty sure it’s because I used the term “regular people”, and I used it in quotes. I get the sense that some people are reading more into that phrase than I intended.
- WgaqPdNr7PGLGVW 2y ago> Maybe they think politicizing the whole executive branch is a little distasteful They believe it has already been politicized by people who hate them.
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoI think the former is most likely. The people are largely unhappy with how things have been and it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term, so I don't think there will be a fire lit under enough of the population to rise up. If it gets bad enough that most people are starving, rather then just struggling, we'll see action, but I doubt it'll get there anytime soon.
- mcphage 2y ago> it's unlikely to get materially worse for the majority of people in the near term That’s pretty optimistic…
- Dalewyn 2y ago>The people are largely unhappy with how things have been This is an understatement to say the least, and the fact it's been denied and even refused by the powers that be until today is why the pendulum has swung as hard as it has. Americans wanted change, and they finally got it with ferocious retribution because it's been held back for so long.
- mastersummoner 2y agoI'm confused. Are you saying specifically that you think the experiences described in this article are for the good of the country? Or do you think they're an exaggeration/lie.
- pizlonator 2y agoI don’t think that’s what the comment said at all. You’re extrapolating too much. Explaining the pendulum swinging violently because folks didn’t feel heard is not the same thing as saying that it’s a good thing that the pendulum has swung so violently.
- Dalewyn 2y agoI'm a Trump voter (2016, 2020, and 2024) so I obviously find all this a good thing, just for transparency. That said, that is tangential and irrelevant to explaining how and why the pendulum swung back as hard as it did. Trump won his first term in 2016 because Americans were fed up with the Bush+Obama status quo of endless wars and waste. Drain the swamp, fuck the establishment! As the sentiment of the day went; remember Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party? Biden winning 2020 was a sharp rebuke by the powers that be; how dare the people demand change and elect an outsider, how dare the people demand peace and effective government. Biden and Harris's 2024 campaigns likewise were based strictly and ultimately on continuing the status quo; Harris "had no policy" in large part because the "policy" was the status quo. Trump winning again in 2024 with a historic campaign is a sharp rebuke to that, he is the people's retribution for being denied and refused for so long time and time again. For voters like me and us, NASA and the like having their funding slashed and denied is merely collateral damage for a greater and long-awaited cause.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cft 2y agoTime to leave HN for me. It's become a cesspool of this vitriol.
- kfrzcode 2y agos/sess/cess
- cft 2y agoupvoted
- alextingle 2y agoWhich bit of that is vitriol?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- zamadatix 2y agoIf I were to be fair to cft the comment does really seem much different than ones which said they can't wait for people to rise up against Biden because he's a communist. I.e. just a short comment throwing charged political labels rather than discussion the actual meat under consideration. I'm not all that big a fan of that style comment rising to the top threads like this myself, even though I likely lean very opposite of cft on political matters and what I think the impact of this will be like.
- joe_the_user 2y agoThe thing I find strange is that the other wealthy and powerful stand for the destruction of things that gave the US a huge competitive advantage. The average person isn't hit immediately by the destruction of science. But a far-sighted person with some power should by self-interest not want this. And this, I think, points to the corruption of the entire political class in America with just being upshot.
- aqueueaqueue 2y agoElon can live anywhere in the world. Very rich people are global citizens. They cannot be patriotic.
- ergonaught 2y agoBy the time there is any actual mass recognition of what is happening, nevermind any attempt to intervene, it will be far too late. There was a successful coup and the USA as such has fallen, now presumably on the route to failing.
- khazhoux 2y agoNot a coup. Trump said he was going to dismantle the government, and the majority empowered him to do so.
- nicce 2y agoIf we want to predict things, look no further than Project 2025
- addandsubtract 2y agoAn auto coup is still a coup.
- RajT88 2y agoI live in the US; born here, lived here all my life. The former is 100% how it will go. The only question is: how bad will it get? A poster down thread mentions a million dead immigrants. I personally think it will just be in the low 6 figures. Maybe high 5 figures.
- refurb 2y agoIf only HN had a reminder option. The doom and gloom in these comments is truly funny. I remember the exact same when Trump won the first time. It’s like HN has no memory.
- error_logic 2y agoTrump was surrounded by establishment Republicans last time. This time no checks and balances exist within the administration, and the supreme court has been turned. I wish I could laugh.
- Gareth321 2y agoYeah this thread is like being on Reddit. "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" The hyperbole was thick and fast last time he was elected, with accusations of fascism and certain doom. It turns out, he didn't in fact blow up the world. Quite the opposite. He was the first president in decades not to start a new war. People were inoculated during that first term against hyperbole. Even if "fascism" were to appear now (and I firmly believe it has not), people would no longer care. Well done those of you who cried wolf so vociferously. Trump is president because of you.
- cmurf 2y agoI think it’s distinctly not funny people who voted for a rapist think they’re good people. Trump as POTUS ordered the VPOTUS to overturn an election, and when Mike Pence refused the order, Trump sent a mob to have the VPOTUS assassinated. It’s distinctly not funny, though very memorable, that people who voted for Trump again think of themselves as American patriots. I remember the racist lie of birtherism. You can grab them by the pussy, they let you do it. I remember it. I think some are addicts to the anger, drama, and depravity of Trump TV. Perhaps they can be treated like drug, sex, and shopping addicts. The stupid and malicious are probably lost for our lifetime. The best thing to do is cut them off. They’re not good people. They voted for a rapist, that’s how desperate and low they’ve become. I remember Mike Pence boilerplate Republicanism wasn’t good enough. Trumpers want and need an abuser. They voted for that, not despite it. A good deal why we’re here is liberals coddled Trumpers, forgave them in advance, helped to normalize the depravity by inviting Trumper friends and family to all the usual social functions, despite the insanity. We were too nice. And this is permission. We gave them permission all along. Kick abusers to the curb. All of them. They’re not good people. Stop trying to make them better by lying about who and what they are. Stop normalizing the depravity. That’s the beginning.
- pfd1986 2y agoWouldn't rise up lead to a coup? Isn't this exactly what Trump is waiting / routing for?
- yibg 2y agoRoughly half the voting population wants a king. It's not just rolling over, this is welcomed with open arms. I try to understand how the "other side" is thinking about this. Disagreements on policy aside, why would "freedom loving Americans" want a king that can rule unilaterally? Not trying to start a flame war or pose a gotcha question, I'm genuinely curious. What am I missing?
- khazhoux 2y agoI think you're misrepresenting. His side won, and now they get to do what they want. It's always that way, no? Like, isn't that the point of an election?
- stingrae 2y agoThey get to do what they want within the rules established by the courts and constitution.
- yibg 2y agoAnd this time, people don't seem to care about that anymore. Despite the right supposedly being the group that's all about the constitution and rule of law.
- mike_hearn 2y agoThat's true in theory, but it's not what's happened in the recent past. A lot of the problems Trump faces are due to "rules" established by the civil service itself - often directly and unashamedly just to spite him, and stop him implementing the policies he campaigned and won on. There's no theory of government in which this is supposed to play a part. For example, the civil service passed new rules in the dying days of the Biden administration intended to stop Trump implementing Schedule F. This didn't come from Congress or the courts. They just passed it themselves. Trump is the boss so can undo that rule with a new rule, but they passed it within a framework of yet more rules they made themselves to slow that down so - if followed - it will take months. This is purely self serving protectionism and has nothing to do with democracy or the Constitution. There's an interesting document here [1] that goes into all the ways the civil service betrayed Trump in the first term. Betrayal is a correct and moderate term to use. They were doing things like forging documents, lying to appointees about non-existent laws, refusing to prosecute legally clear cut cases in order to propagate woke ideology (e.g. discrimination against Asian Americans), deliberately keeping their bosses in the dark, refusing direct orders to do work if it would run contra to woke ideology and many more things. From the Trump team's perspective the rules are largely fake: when they align with what the left want they're followed to the letter, when they don't they're ignored or subverted without consequence. He played that game in his first term, and is apparently no longer willing to do so. It's hard to know what Congress will do but presumably they're aware of the fact that their own laws have created this situation to some extent (even if not the full extent). It wouldn't be surprising to see civil service reform bills appear soon. [1] https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/Tales_from_the_Swamp-_How_Federal_Bureaucrats_Resisted_President_Trump_-_Revided_1.8.2025.pdf https://americafirstpolicy.com/assets/uploads/files/Tales_fr...
- kilroy123 2y agoThis is classic anacyclosis in action so none of this is surprising to me. I've talked about this for years, hell even here on HN. We're at the final stage of the cycle—ochlocracy. (Mob rule) I don't think Trump will be king, to be blunt he's too old and not skilled enough. I'm worried about the next guy or the one after that.
- khazhoux 2y agoThere was just an election! The people literally just voted for this.
- mewc 2y agoWhat is happening is a good thing. rm corruption -rf
- cycrutchfield 2y agoThe corruption is currently in the White House, they could start there?
- Sharlin 2y agoAh, yes. Billionaires who funded the campaign with hundreds of millions, being delegated powers that the president does not have the authority to delegate, getting free access to classified information without any clearance, demanding things they have no authority to demand, promising buy-outs they have no authority or intention to ever honor (if you believe otherwise, I have a hell of a lot of bridges to sell you), crippling programs and agencies meant to keep normal hard-working citizens safe and healthy, everything in order to steal as much taxpayer money as possible? That corruption? The only government efficiency they’re concerned with is the efficiency of funneling other people’s money into their own pockets. Even Putin’s oligarch buddies are nowhere that bold nor think they’re that much above the law.
- jimkleiber 2y agoSome people think politicians make money in corrupt ways but the richest people in the world do it through very clean ways. Almost as if very very rich people are super genius, but the semi-rich people are just corrupt. Ironically, the essence of a confidence trick, or con artistry, is to convince people that you're superhuman, much much much smarter than everyone else.
- amelius 2y agoThis will probably decide it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance If one party wants to do things democratically at all cost, and the other party wants to bring down democracy, then the latter will win.
- Arkhadia 2y agoSure. I can’t tell you how much I love my tax dollars fluffing the pockets of god knows what while also having to deal with insane inflation due to no accountability in government. More than have the country welcomes the purge
- jccalhoun 2y agoHe's an old man. I don't know whether to hope he dies of old age soon or to hope he doesn't because that would mean JD Vance would become president.