9 ms·

How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

258 points by bronzekaiser 3y ago

wackget 3y ago
Is there something I'm missing? A quick search of YouTube reveals tons of garage door spring replacement videos. It doesn't seem like the knowledge or parts are difficult to obtain.
- TheGRS 3y ago
  Its widely known as one of the most dangerous DIYs you can do. I think typically people working on them will get pushed off their ladder suddenly from the tension in the spring releasing.
  - JKCalhoun 3y ago
    I worry more about a steel bar being thrown out with ample centrifugal force or coming around and taking a whack at your jaw.
  - derekp7 3y ago
    Happened in my family a number of years ago. The instructions said to crank the spring 7 1/4 turns. So it was really make a 1/4 turn, repeat 7 times. Not 7 full turns plus 1/4 additional. After pulling the vice grips off, the door shot up with such force that it knocked the ladder over, causing a broken collar bone in the process.
    - jollyllama 3y ago
      I tried and failed to repair before, but didn't get injured. I had to take great care with the vice grips and other implements I was using; my intuition was they could become missiles.
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      Holy crap what a terrible instruction!
- 8organicbits 3y ago
  > If you've researched this subject at all, you will no doubt have heard that you shouldn't be attempting torsion spring replacement as a do-it-yourselfer.
- bluGill 3y ago
  There are several different springs, some are more dangerious than others. It isn't hard to safely replace any spring. However it isn't always obvious what is safe or unsafe and mistakes can kill.
- glasss 3y ago
  Probably the year this was published, the blog said the first version was in posted in 2002
- mhuffman 3y ago
  I suspect that a lot or all of those videos are about "extension spring" replacements and not "torsion spring" replacements. Probably shouldn't do either, but the torsion ones can have instant and catastrophic failure modes during installation or removal.
- fencepost 3y ago
  The page in question predates the founding of YouTube by ~3 years. It's in the middle of the Geocities time period, back when video distribution on the Internet was probably via Usenet and digital photography was probably on a Sony Mavica writing to floppy disks - or maybe to compact CDR if you were lucky.
  - camtarn 3y ago
    Sort of. It was a different world, but not quite that different! Geocities was really dying by 2002. It had been bought by Yahoo! a few years previously, and they were intent on driving it into the ground. Video distribution was indeed fairly rare, but Flash sites were very widespread, sometimes including video, but more often vector animations. The Mavica was still around in 2002, although mostly in CD-R form. But cameras taking flash memory cards were also around, using a wild mix of CompactFlash, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, xD-Picture Card and MMC. SD had just been invented, and a year or so later I had my own cheap digital camera that took SD cards.
- 14 3y ago
  yes this is one of those things that is scaring people but if you pay $500 some other guy can magically do it for you. The fact is that it is not that hard of a job and the dangers can easily be mitigated if you have some basic common sense and knowledge. Unfortunetly common sense is not that common and many people have been hurt doing this job. I myself would not hesitate to do this job like you say lots of information now days on how to do it this site is 22 years old in this post so now days you can see exactly what to do in many videos way before even attempting the job and that alone can take away most of the risk since you get hand held the entire process. I have to say I am a little disappointed in the HN crowd at how shy they are to do this job. All the handy men that do this job now are just humans like you and me and they all had to learn from scratch at some point. Again this is not that hard or dangerous but like the article says it has by shrouded in stories of danger and the trades people would not share their knowledge but told everyone how dangerous it would be so pay them money.
xyst 3y ago
i thought there were alternates to torsion spring as the mechanism to open and close garage doors by now. I guess it’s limited for residential installs
mikewarot 3y ago
Mine is broken and I'm waiting until I have enough savings to pay someone experienced to do it for us. I've worked on all sorts of things, but I don't want to risk my health that recklessly.
superkuh 3y ago
What an incredible web page design. It loads and paints instantly on any browser in existence and reflows faster than any site I've seen. The content is front and center and there's a ton of it. This is what peak website performance looks like.
- gear54rus 3y ago
  randomly changing content width and slapping random tables where they don't belong doesn't do it for me, sorry
- martinky24 3y ago
  Yeah but how will I get ~customized ads~ served to me? What if big-ad-tech doesn't know I'm tangentially interested in garage door opener content??
  - abracadaniel 3y ago
    You will miss out on having your YouTube feed filled with garage door videos for the next 3 years as well.
- xnx 3y ago
  Still too much design. The centering is unnecessary.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  Ha ha, and the compression artifacts on the images: how you know it's gonna load fast.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  Not sure if satire. It's a terrible user experience for me. For future readers: https://motherfuckingwebsite.com https://motherfuckingwebsite.com http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com
levocardia 3y ago
I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough money to do this repair. >This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a professional to work on my roof too (and wince when they don't wear safety equipment). I'm not sure where "crushed by your own car" falls on the list, but while I'm perfectly comfortable digging around in the engine bay, you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car. 1. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/ https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  Yeah, I'm a DIY'er and I noped-out of this one too.
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    Ditto, but after he charged me $550 it and used bars rather than a worm-drive "winder", I'm thinking that next time I'm going to either get a winder and do it myself (parts were sub $100) or at least get 3 quotes. I went with someone a friend liked, so I didn't do any shopping around, mea culpa. But, I guess he had to pay for his brand new F-250 somehow. :-) I was half expecting him to say I needed other maintenance including new rollers, at which point I was going to call BS, because I replaced those rollers a couple three years ago and I'm about a million uses away from their rated million open/closes. Double sealed ball bearings, ask for them by name.
- the__alchemist 3y ago
  Thank you. I agree on all examples. Absolutely not worth the risk. Not even close. I wince thinking about when I changed my own oil in my 20s... Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done under a professional lift.
  - 3y ago
tmaly 3y ago
I have had to replace mine before. I was sitting in the family room. Big slam sound. I go out and check the garage and one of the springs had broke. It is really not a big deal to switch them out.
- ianschmitz 3y ago
  Oof. Just because you did it yourself does not mean it wasn’t extremely dangerous, or that the average home owner should attempt it. There’s an incredible amount of energy stored in those springs when wound up
  - tmaly 2y ago
    I am not talking about wound up springs. This is a simple spring you usually see in pairs, one on each side of the garage door.
- Knufferlbert 3y ago
  That is a very weird take to me. That big slam presumably is the spring breaking, a lot of energy released at once in a rather uncontrolled fashion. The same energy will be released if you make a mistake installing it or the spring is faulty for whatever reason while you are standing right next to it. My take away is that it's to dangerous to do.
  - tmaly 2y ago
    If you take the weight off the spring so it is limp, and you secure the door, this removes the danger.
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  It is absolutely a big deal.
- imperialdrive 3y ago
  It's not that big a deal if you're someone that considers getting on a 6+ foot ladder not a big deal, or changing your own oil, or going to a shooting range with a rifle, or I guess driving a big rental truck. It REALLY helps to watching someone do it in person the first time, like a handy neighbor or something. Definitely error on the side of calling a pro than doing yourself unless you can easily do a couple pull ups or lift a 50lb weight. Definitely ensure the rods you use fit snugly. It's super satisfying to get the job done though.
MarkusWandel 3y ago
I did one on the "do it with the spring relaxed and the door up" plan. The door isn't that heavy, you can just lift it with your hand to help the opener lift it up, and done. But cramped!! Getting the lift cable nicely wound on the lift pulley, giving it a bit of preload (pull) and getting it attached to the bottom of the door, all with the raised door in the way, and doing both sides, let's just say my supply of swear words was severely depleted by the end. But I did get it done, and no dangerous forces were involved. Whereas I saw a professional do it in about 5 minutes flat on the "wind the spring and block it and then hook everything up with the door down" plan. But that can kill you if you do it wrong.
- WesleyJohnson 3y ago
  16' x 7' metal garage doors are like 150lbs or more. Maybe I'm a weak old man, but I wouldn't say that "isn't that heavy".
  - MarkusWandel 3y ago
    Mine is 8', uninsulated, and lifting was with the aid of the opener (which stalled without help, with the broken spring).
- yard2010 3y ago
  This reminded me of so many childhood memories with my dad..
toomuchtodo 3y ago
I do not recommend DIYing this work, but I do recommend springing for the high cycle (20k cycles) torsion springs if offered by your installer (TLDR larger wire size and a few inches longer to optimize for longevity). They are a bit more in material cost, but will save you labor costs, which will only go up in the future. Also, depending on your living arrangement and situation, an unexpected spring failure can be annoying AF if you can't get vehicles in and out of the structure.
- ianschmitz 3y ago
  I recently had mine serviced and the spring I have is original (~30 years old) and looking a little old. I asked the installer if I should replace it and he said “no. They don’t make them like they used to. They don’t last nearly as long. Wait until this one gives up”
MiguelHudnandez 3y ago
I was hoping this was going to be a new technology making these springs obsolete.
- shiftpgdn 3y ago
  I don't entirely understand why you can't just have a motor move the door for newer aluminum doors. They aren't that heavy.
  - jtriangle 3y ago
    Because if someone needs to open the door and the power's out, or the motor has failed, many people won't be able to do it. That might be acceptable day-to-day, but, if opening the door is what's required to escape, say, a house fire, it's very much not acceptable.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
      Should be a door or egress window in any garage.
      - toast0 3y ago
        Kind of hard to get a car out the door or window. Usually getting a car out of a garage isn't a big deal, because who actually puts their car in there? But also, you don't need to drive your car out if your structure is on fire ... OTOH, you may want to drive somewhere else if your power is out, especially if it's out for an extended period of time.
  - ok123456 3y ago
    They do. My gym has a garage door like this. Because of the lack of springs, I didn't realize it had a door opener until the owner went to lower it.
  - birken 3y ago
    Coincidentally I just had a professionally done garage door spring replacement today, and I asked the repairman this question, and here is what he said: 1. The springs lift the door from the bottom, and from each side, which puts less load on the door itself as compared to if the entire weight were being lifted from the top middle every time. 2. The motors can be smaller, quieter and use less power 3. In case of power failure, the door is much more functional and safer the less apparently weight it has. Also the springs themselves are very unlikely to be dangerous (as long as you don't try to replace them yourself), because he said they almost always break when the door is at the closed state, because that is when they are under the most tension. Therefore on the whole, the springs in practice offer no practical safety risk, while greatly increasing the safety of the door in it's normal operation while also reducing wear and tear on the door. They also allow people to have heavier types of doors if they want them.
neilv 3y ago
> This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. I wonder what the net impact of an article like this is: * How much money is saved by garage door owners? * How much money is lost by professionals? * How many people are injured/killed because this article made them think this was doable at acceptable risk, when they otherwise wouldn't have attempted it? * How many people would've attempted it anyway, and would've been injured, but this article helped them not to be injured? Modern bonus: * How many people are injured because a YouTube/TikTok/etc. DIY influencer is informed by this article, makes a YouTube video that muddies the information, and people are inspired by the influencer video to attempt it?
- mildchalupa 3y ago
  Life's dangerous.
linsomniac 3y ago
Nobody seems to mention keeping the springs lubed for longevity. What's the groups thinking on that? I keep a spray bottle of lube by the door and shoot it every few months, which is probably overkill, but it's so easy. Then just wipe off the excess and grime maybe yearly.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Might help with corrosion, too. My grandfather had a very old garage door and opener, and one day something gave and it blew apart. It sounded very much like a shotgun had been fired inside the garage. Fortunately, nobody was in or near the garage when it happened, but I'll remember it every time "garage door spring" comes up in conversation.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    We had a corroded one that still functioned but I finally buckled under the RACKET the thing made every time the door opened and closed and got it replaced anyway. Every single time you opened or closed it, it sounded like a goddamn car crash going on out front. Ugh.
- bumby 3y ago
  At least according to the article, the main failure mode is fatiguing, so I’m not sure lube would help with that, unless the corrosion is really bad. Most materials have a finite amount of cycles in them (although I’m a bit skeptical of the authors 7 year estimate…it seems low to me)
  - linsomniac 3y ago
    Doesn't the rubbing of the coils against each other contribute to fatigue?
    - manfre 3y ago
      Yes, it does.
tonetegeatinst 3y ago
So I recently helped my dad replace 2 of these springs. He is no engineer but used to be a firefighter and straight up told me "you don't respect the power of the spring....you will die" I don't think he ever had to respond to a call where someone died trying to do this....but I bet he had some local story of the dangers these pose growing up. TLDR treat dangerous things with respect and you vastly increase your odds. Be it a firearm or a chemical or a fast spinning lathe.....danger can be lurking anuwhere and when you recognise it a d stop and develop a aproach to mitigate risks.....you can help elimate stupid mistakes that could really cost you. TLDR its better to have annoyingly boring procedures than just wing it and hope it goes well.
VincentEvans 3y ago
Reading some of the comment section here makes this veteran DIYer sneer. Ya’ll need to “grow some” and unlearn helplessness. Pay someone else who learned the simple steps to do the simple work and save yourself the time for more productive activities, but stop congratulating yourself on “avoiding a disaster” - too much drama for the task at hand here.
- TheGRS 3y ago
  Its not a regular thing to work on for the majority of people. What's the point of manning up for this particular DIY if the danger is high? Is it really that big of an ego hit to pay someone for a job once in awhile?
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  I'm sorry, but this "sneering" attitude is hideous. It's OK to do this job yourself if you have enough experience. It's also OK to not do it yourself because it is, in fact, dangerous. It's also OK to suggest that other DIY'ers err on the side of caution if they aren't 100% confident. What's not OK is insisting broadly to man up and do it yourself, stop being helpless, etc. You could encourage an innocent person to severely injure themselves. It's pointless and irresponsible.
- dang 3y ago
  "Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you know more than others, that's great, but in that case please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... Putdowns don't help anybody, and make less interesting reading.
- bitfilped 3y ago
  It also only takes one mistake to severely injure yourself and permanently reduce your quality of life, it's worth considering the value you put on that when deciding these things. I like DIYing as well, but sometimes the risk vs reward isn't worth some extra money. People who get injured doing DIY work often have a similar attitude as yours until they make a critical mistake taking on something they "understand" and haven't done before.
hk1337 3y ago
> Usenet newsgroup alt.home.repair This dude is old school.
crmd 3y ago
The author's intentionally verbose/non-linear storytelling technique, for example the two paragraph detour that describes his ladder and the ladder company's bankruptcy, and the 19 paragraph deep dive on garage door repair business marketing, makes it very hard for my brain to absorb the core information I was looking for (the procedure to replace the springs). I know I'm kind of missing the point/creative intent of this essay, and I appreciate the non-linear full-of-detours style in other genres. For example I'm a huge fan of Norm MacDonald whose long, impossible-to-follow stories would often drive unaware audiences and talkshow hosts crazy. But for technical things I personally find the style super annoying and feeling like the author is trying to flex on how much engineering, business, and trivia knowledge he has in many adjacent topics. I actually get anxiety thinking about getting trapped at a bar or party interacting with somebody who talks like this :-) Curious how other readers feel about this, especially those who have the exact opposite reaction!
- hvs 3y ago
  This is basically what the "early Internet" looked like that people often write paeans to. Lots of pages written by people very dedicated to a weirdly specific thing while also peppering it with nonsequiturs and their crazy theory about who runs the "real" government. It was fine, but hardly the glorious wonderland often portrayed. (Not that the current Internet is without its flaws, but if I want to learn something from someone it is a million times easier today than it was in the late-90's and early-00's.
  - crmd 3y ago
    Yeah, that's a good point and it makes me wonder if the modern web has shrunk my attention span. I used to often meet this exact type of engineer early in my career as an enterprise data storage consultant in the 90s and early 2000s. I would say the most common "character" I would run into at a customer site was "UNIX libertarian hippie guy" who would love to weave politics, especially about privacy, freedom of speech, government overreach, new world order, esoteric obsessive hobbies, etc into technical discussions. I feel like the typical tech worker today either has very different socio-political views, or keeps their politics out of our workplace interactions.
throwaway2037 3y ago
This blog feels like something from Internet hyperspace: Informative, but shitty formatting / layout. I say the latter with genuine love -- no trolling / hate. This blog post could have been posted in 1994! Can we please get more of these on HN!?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dang 3y ago
Related: I Replaced Deadly Garage Door Torsion Springs and Lived to Tell the Tale - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 - Sept 2021 (10 comments)
adrr 3y ago
Why are we still using springs?
- unglaublich 3y ago
  Did you even read the article? Why are we still using passive, reliable mechanisms to reduce the force needed to move heavy objects?
  - hoppyhoppy2 3y ago
    >Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- anamexis 3y ago
  Why not?
  - adrr 3y ago
    Seems like there should be something better that can last longer and not kill you if you try to fix it.
    - riversflow 3y ago
      Why does it seem like there should be something better?
      - adrr 3y ago
        Our garage doors openers are better. No more loud chain and they last longer too.
    - selcuka 3y ago
      There are safer spring systems, such as TorqueMaster that goes into a hollow torque tube.
arh68 3y ago
> but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs "Comparable" in that it's way, way greater, sure. Unless we're talking dangerous car repairs, like using a spring compressor to disassemble a strut &c. Or using harbor freight jack stands.. When my spring broke, I thought someone crashed their car into my house. It's an incredible amount of energy. Garage door springs are up there with lathes & table saws, in terms of danger (IMO).
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  I once bought a table saw, then watched a YouTube safety video about table saws, and then sold my table saw. I wouldn't even consider owning a lathe. I know my limits, and even the chop saw in the garage gives me the shivers.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    I used a Craftsman radial arm saw for a while. One day, I rotated the head 90 degrees to do some ripping. The saw grabbed the wood, and climbed up on it, and fired it at unbelievable speed at the wall. It punched a neat hole in the wall the exact size of the board, and the board disappeared into the next room. I got rid of the saw after that, and bought a sweet Makita cutoff saw instead, and a table saw for ripping. I also bought one of those full face shields people use with chain saws. I like these better than the usual shields because they are a wire mesh, and screens don't fog up.
    - rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
      For what it's worth the 3M full-face respirators are very well designed in that the inlet air passes over your face and then into a sub mask where it is inhaled. Exhaled air is directed out of the front and down. I spent hundreds of hours with one (the FF400) in unconditioned spaces running power tools in fairly strenuous ways and never had it fog at all.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    If I ever need a table saw I'm getting one of the pricy ones that stops before it chews up your hand[1]. My cousin is a professional furniture maker and lost the tips of 3 fingers to a table saw. It happens quickly. [1] https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vCuLs31fDaQ https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vCuLs31fDaQ
chasd00 3y ago
the people you pay to do it aren't going to do it any safer than you would and if they get hurt you're liable. You may as well watch some youtube, take your time, and do it yourself.
- sfilmeyer 3y ago
  I question whether it's actually true that they "aren't going to do it any safer than you would". I'd expect the typical person I hire to have a lot more experience than me which would give them a chance to be safer, to the point I'd expect it to overcome even the fact that they're probably not taking their time as much as I would. Separately, being liable for something happening to someone else and that same thing happening to me are not equivalent. Macabre as it is, I'd rather pay out (or have my insurance pay) the lawsuit for a professional hired for a particular task ending up grievously injured than end up grievously injured myself. In a lot of cases, I'd doubt you'd even be financially liable. From a moral standpoint there's still some culpability, but in the case of garage springs I think your obligation is more to stress to the professional that you're happy for them to take their time and you're willing to pay accordingly than it is to subject yourself to the risk instead. From a societal standpoint, a few repairpeople building up expertise at a particular task is safer than everyone doing it individually.
  - scotty79 3y ago
    Experience brings complacency. Averagely experienced woodworkers loose fingers most often. When you are new to something you are super careful. When you are veteran you made or seen somebody make all mistakes already. When you are averagely experienced it's the most likely time for your confidence to exceed your capability.
- unglaublich 3y ago
  I rather pay for a dead person than be the dead person. Also, you might expect some professionalism from a person advertising themselves as capable of doing the job, so not sure how your liability assumption holds up.
- ajcp 3y ago
theogravity 3y ago
I had mine fail on me a few years ago. Mine was a single spring, and after researching on how to replace, I decided that I'd rather pay someone else to take the risk. It was around $700 at the time and the installer installed two springs (side by side) to handle a failure event with one of them.
rootusrootus 3y ago
I've had springs replaced in the past, and that's one of those jobs I'm perfectly willing to pay someone else to do. The cost is insignificant. I'll happily wire up my own 240V appliances, work underneath my properly supported car, etc. But garage door springs? Nah, go ahead, you do it, send me the bill.
- dave78 3y ago
  The cost really is the key for me. We had one replaced a few months ago and it was a few hundred dollars and was done the same day. I usually prefer to DIY, but it would have taken me a while just to measure everything, round up the right spring and acquire it, get the correct rods and cut them to size, etc. I'm sure that would consume at least an afternoon for me and it would still cost something to acquire the parts. The savings just isn't worth it. If the cost to have it done professionally was $3000, it might be a different story.
uticus 3y ago
If they are this bad to replace, should I be worried about them randomly failing? I mean, I drive right underneath them like twice a day backing in and out.
- buescher 3y ago
  They typically fail when wound (closed), not unwound (open), because that's when they're stressed. Cables can fail when winding the drum (open), but you have two.
  - therein 3y ago
    That doesn't instill any peace of mind. So they are normally under stress and might explode at some random moment? Edit: Okay, that [0] doesn't look too violent. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik
    - XorNot 3y ago
      What gets you as I understand it is that the turning handles for the springs. If you lose your grip on them its a rod of steel that's going to flung around at high speed with enough force to counter-weight an entire garage door.
    - mzs 3y ago
      There is a rod that contains the broken spring. If an installed spring were to break when the door was open the most likely cause of danger is a few hundred pounds of garage door coming down on whatever was under it, so wait for the door to fully open before driving through.
    - NegativeLatency 3y ago
      Driving is probably the more dangerous activity there, if it helps you take your mind off the springs.
- userbinator 3y ago
  The roof of your car can likely survive the garage door falling on it. Unless you're in a convertible.
elzbardico 3y ago
At my home country we used counter-weights, pulleys and cables. Took more space, it is arguably uglier (but who cares how it looks on the inside?) but the cable usually lasts for ages and fixing it is not a life-threatening procedure.
- elzbardico 3y ago
  Torsion springs are BMWs, the expensive, over-engineered, beautiful, high performance style of doing this. Most of use would be just fine with a Toyota instead.
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  How does a counterweight work? A torsion spring is great because as it unwinds, the tension decreases. As the garage door transitions from 200 lbs of vertical load in the closed position to almost 0 lbs when it's mostly parallel to the ceiling, a properly sized and wound spring reduces the force in synchrony with the door position. Wouldn't a counterweight provide insufficient force at the bottom and/or excess force at the top?
  - Horffupolde 3y ago
    It’s like for an elevator. The motor is there for the friction but the potential energy of the system is approximately constant.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      An elevator on the ground floor and an elevator at the top floor have the "same" weight. Not so for a 100%, 50%, and 0% open garage door. The 0% open door is the full weight; the 100% open door has very little weight (as most of the door is on the horizontal track).
  - cyberax 3y ago
    You use multiple weights that telescope into each other ( https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ ), or a segmented counterweight (Kelley E-Systems one company that does this). But they require space and a sturdy housing. Springs are as compact as you can get. There are also some safety concerns, a cable connecting the door to the counterweight can break, and/or slip. This can result in pieces of metal flying everywhere. A broken spring typically stays contained. Personally, I would do one of the counterweight systems for my new house.
galdosdi 3y ago
> Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 Richard J Kinch Why is 2013 missing?
- valleyer 3y ago
  Presumably because the document was not updated in 2013. So no part of the document was first published in that year.
- m3kw9 3y ago
  He needs all the luck with that job or paying it forward for next time
lebuffon 3y ago
Reminds me of the old engineer joke: "Did you know you can save $27.00 if you build your own refrigerator?"
- nkurz 3y ago
  I don't know it, and searching got me nowhere. Could you expand?
  - xattt 3y ago
    The BOM of a DIY refrigerator (or anything of this sort), built using retail price components, is almost as much as a manufactured fridge that was built using components bought at a volume discount.
- fbdab103 3y ago
  How is this the first time I have heard this? Just golden wisdom that is broadly applicable to so much DIY.
- anyfactor 2y ago
  I understand the idea of DIY and self repair, but doing some kind of specialized DIY work will require special tools, domain knowledge, ability to fix things on the go, ability to stay focused after a full week of work etc. I am not dismissing DIY at all, but YouTube repair channels make it sound so easy but viewers forget making these repair videos is their job while your job is writing software. When you try it out IRL these repairs are always considerably more difficult and nobody talks about shipping cost that makes 5 minute replacements considerably more expensive.
winrid 3y ago
My grandfather is in his 70s and does this as his "retirement job", it's generally around $500 last I asked him...
iancmceachern 3y ago
My dad would do anything, with confidence. This is the one thing he wouldn't touch. Me too.
mistrial9 3y ago
yes this is dangerous ! first hand experience with a commercial rollup door. A small crowbar is used to tighten the final install, about four meters up off the ground, too.
Waterluvian 3y ago
> so if you have any doubts about your abilities to do risky physical work on your own, hire the job out like everyone else. The problem I witness is that the people who kill or maim themselves will tell you they were confident. When people aren’t confident, their brains are responding properly to the danger and it generally leads them to making good decisions.
- fargle 2y ago
  hard disagree. confidence != complacency/over-confidence. self-confidence is actually an absolutely key factor to safety. it doesn't mean you are blind to the dangers, rather that you recognize them, are able manage and handle risks and how to mitigate them, and above all are not fearful. you absolutely need to trust yourself. if you are not feeling confident you are NOT going to be safe. not being confident leads to timidity, second-guessing, maybe saying "ugh. i guess that is normal?" when they shouldn't. and if something goes wrong, you can't freeze, you have to be able react appropriately. the first time you do a mildly risky thing like this, it's wise to do more research, go a little slower and think about each step. but there's no reason that you can't approach it with a safe and confident attitude, even the first time, if you are prepared - or even better - have a trainer/mentor that can check you. when you feel "unconfident" or fearful that is when you should walk away.
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
The reason it's not expensive to have someone else do it is that if done properly it's not dangerous. Otherwise culture would be lumping garage door repairmen with emergency responders who take dangerous jobs but keep society functioning. You couldn't get it done for $200 if the career killed people frequently. The "if done properly" is critical, yes, if done wrong it's incredibly dangerous, but if you understand and respect it there's minimal chance of harm. DIYed it three times now (on different doors of course) without incident.
- Horffupolde 3y ago
  Famous last words.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    That makes no sense. I'm with OP. You don't see mass casualties among overhead door installation crews. So, there must be a safe way to do it. I've also installed around 6 overhead doors, and followed all safety instructions that I learned from an overhead door installer. I've never once been killed.
    - Horffupolde 3y ago
      It’s the arrogance that kills. Not the spring.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  On what planet do you live where dangerousness of work has anything to do with pay? EMTs, who are basically doing the bulk of "saving people's lives" - are paid the lowest wages, worse than firefighters, police, and often even the dispatchers. Why? Because the market is totally saturated with former armed services folks. And in many states, assaulting a cop will get you in a fuckton of trouble, assaulting a firefighter will get you in a fair bit of trouble, but assaulting an EMT will (depending on the state) often get you...an ambulance ride, which you were probably getting anyway. Retail workers, transportation workers, field workers...all very dangerous jobs and bottom-barrel pay. Same for people in meat processing; just look up the articles about migrant children working in meat packing plants (or don't if you have kids, because there are some incredibly horrific things happening to them.)
1970-01-01 3y ago
Excellent example of safety third. If you know how to be careful, don't be afraid to do the job.
- b3lvedere 2y ago
  Or if you know it is going to be a huge pain in the.. then hire someone. Recently i had all the central heating connections in my house replaced by smart thermostats. I could have done that myself given enough time, but i knew the old current system was from around 1970/1980 and i would face major problems. So i hired some guy to do it for me. Agreed upon a fixed price as well. It took him around 11 hours to get everything working.
Scoundreller 3y ago
One scam/scheme not mentioned in the article is calling the phone number on the sticker of the vendor that installed your opener. Those are very valuable advertisement slots. Call anyone but them. There's not a ton of specialization in residential garage door systems.
- stavros 3y ago
  Can you clarify a bit? Why are they valuable ad slots? Why wouldn't I call the vendor that installed my opener to repair it?
  - lolinder 3y ago
    Presumably because when they see the sticker they'll know that you called them without shopping around, so they'll quote you something ridiculous and bank on you not realizing you could easily get a second opinion.
    - stavros 3y ago
      Ah, the vendor doesn't run a generic repair shop? This makes sense if the only people that will call the vendor for a repair are the people who had the vendor install the thing in the first place.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        It's often the builder's contractor. Years/decades down the line, that phone number is worth $$$.
      - lolinder 3y ago
        They don't have to know the sticker is there while on the phone, only by the time they give you the quote. Once they show up at the house to diagnose the problem they'll be able to see the sticker or not. To be clear, this is just me speculating about how such a scam would run, I've never seen it or heard of it.
giantg2 3y ago
I wonder if longer life springs could be made from something like chrome silicon, or if the application of force won't work that way for that material.
wigglewoggle 3y ago
It's interesting whenever this comes up on Reddit and there are a hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is, but on closer inspection you can see the comments cannot discriminate between important details - eg. talking about how dangerous extension springs are, having no clue that they are different than torsion springs. Always fun to see how many people will pretend they have knowledge on a subject they have no experience in.
- MichaelMug 3y ago
  > hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is And every time a similar post or question is made the same responses are parroted again. I’ve read so much Reddit in college that I would play a game where id try to guess what the top voted comments would say. After a while it becomes tiring to read the same things over and over again.
  - pests 2y ago
    Yep, can even go levels deep and correctly guess replies to relies. Or what song are they going to sing line by line? too predictable.
- winkelmann 3y ago
  Something I've noticed is that, when under the guise of safety/"don't do this thing", netizens seem to have few inhibitions sharing information from topics they barely understand or have experience in. Some caution is always good, but I feel like people are too comfortable using it as an excuse for sharing unsubstantiated information as fact.
mildchalupa 3y ago
People think garage door springs are like diffusing a bomb. It's not that bad if you are competent and have the correct equipment.
- b3lvedere 2y ago
  People who nickel and dime everything usually do not have the correct equipment and most of them are hardly competent as well.
irjustin 3y ago
I'll agree with Reddit and most of the posts here. It's too dangerous to be worth it. Once every 3-7 years replacement at ~US$150-350 YMMV is honestly not that much money saved vs the risk.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  Once every 3-7 years? I've heard of them breaking before but I've never had it happen in a place I lived, including my parents' house growing up, and the houses I've personally owned. I've never had the spring worked on other than to have it installed in the first place. Again, I know they break sometimes. It should not be happening every few years. (But if/when it does, take my money. I'll replace my car's brakes and wire a new ceiling fan but I'm not touching that spring for love nor money.)
userbinator 3y ago
I wonder if the claims of danger are exaggerated to keep those in the business making $$$, and spread like rumours aided by the lack of information in that era. Now that there's YouTube, and an abundance of information (and accompanying misinformation, of course), the truth can come to light. I even found a supposedly scary warning video of a spring deliberately let go, and it's... underwhelmingly tame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrUIN6hClB4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrUIN6hClB4 Just remember to keep your hands away from it, which is easy to do with long winding rods that should be grasped at the ends for best leverage anyway.
RockRobotRock 3y ago
this article was very effective at convincing me I would never try this myself.
ARandomerDude 3y ago
I attempted an almost identical repair like this once and ended up in the ER. Don't do it. Call a pro.
linsomniac 3y ago
I think the next time I have to replace my torsion springs, I'm going to install the Coplay Ez-Set system, anyone have experience with it? It has a built in tensioning system. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion-Kit-for-16-ft-x-7-ft-Garage-Doors-191-lbs-211-lbs-LW-BROWN-A-16/207135205 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion... It has a built-in winder that uses a power drill. There are tools that will attach to the traditional winders and you can use a power drill, those tools are $800, which is a bit hard to swallow.
- ehaskins 3y ago
  I've installed doors with that system, or a very similar Menard's carries. Given the choice, I'd opt for it since it is easier to fine tune, but I'm not convinced it's safer than the traditional way. You still have to secure the door against unintentional movement and ensure everything is assembled correctly before tensioning. The only "safety" feature I see is it eliminates the appeal to use an inadequate tool to tension the spring, so resist the urge to use a flimsy old screwdriver and you'll probably have similar risk either way.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
porkbeer 3y ago
I have replaced these and am still alive. Apparently thats a big deal? When did we become so afraid of being responsible for our own safety?
j-a-a-p 3y ago
These doors are what we call a 'luxury problem': just more trouble because the premium door type was chosen. The single pane type door I know [0] are perhaps uglier, but they will last decades and do not need maintenance. They use normal springs. [0] https://www.novoferm.nl/producten/garagedeuren/kanteldeuren/ https://www.novoferm.nl/producten/garagedeuren/kanteldeuren/
weinzierl 2y ago
"Phew! The hazardous torsion is all removed from the old spring. Now the disassembly can begin, with our old friend gravity as the only acceleration threatening personal safety." Haha, also reminds me of how *"The Actions In This Video Are Performed by Professionals" became completely meaningless, because most of the time they very obviously aren't.
TomMasz 2y ago
I respect the enormous power of these springs and leave them to the pros.
stikit 2y ago
I replaced my torsion springs a few weeks ago with little drama. The hardest part was measuring the old springs so I could order the correct replacements. The reason I did it myself was 1) the springs used by contractors are typically lower quality and will last 10k cycles vs about 30k for the standard ones I ordered. 2) I wanted to learn how the system worked so I could adjust it as needed and know it was done right and not be reliant on an ‘expert’ same as why people work on their cars 3) labor costs in Seattle area are higher than most other areas. The best video on replacement is https://youtu.be/xOXO01rdZ5c?feature=shared https://youtu.be/xOXO01rdZ5c?feature=shared. I used zip ties to hold the cable pulleys and open mouthed bracket in place instead of the vice grips as he did in the video. I did not weigh the door. I did it alone, though probably not recommended. I ordered from DDM Garage Doors. I wouldn’t recommend Amazon vendors as they all look pretty sketch. Definitely order proper winding bars with good rubber stops to help you ensure you’ve inserted it fully before each wind. If you are at all mechanical minded (replaced a clothes dryer drum? ), this is doable. Just go slow and be safe. Took me about an hour to remove the old springs, 3 days to get parts and 3 hours to install including having to repeat the winding because the cables came off during the first try. I wore gloves, safety glasses and during the winding of the springs a bike helmet and an over the ear headset to protect my ears. Probably could have used teeth protection, and a chainsaw type face shield. The dangerous part is tightening the set bolts while the spring is tensioned . If you aren’t paying attention, I can see that it might be easy to bump the bar out of place, releasing the tension and potentially shooting the bolts back at you or the spring catching your gloves and fingers and shredding them.
- winkelmann 2y ago
  > I wore gloves I don't know if this also applies to garage door springs, but when working with lathes for example, it is often recommended to not wear gloves. I imagine if the spring comes loose, it might slash open your hand, but with a glove, it could fully grab it and basically wind up your hand and arm around itself.
__mharrison__ 2y ago
One of our garage door springs "popped" just last week. Had to recruit two of my kids to help me get the door open to back out the vehicles. Even an aluminum garage door is heavy.
pierat 2y ago
This garage door work is comparable to working on a vehicle suspension. Similar springs, similar preloading force, etc. And similar threat of death if you fuck up or do something stupid. Nothing wrong with doing things yourself, but make sure you're following basic safety standards and procedures. And don't do stupid hacks cause the actual tools are expensive. This is how you get injured or killed.
londons_explore 2y ago
The springs become pretty safe when contained with a simple cable down the middle right?
dpb001 2y ago
A year ago I had a spring fail in my old/cheap system with tension springs. I was surprised to see the level of scamminess present in this particular area of repair. After seeing that a set of replacement springs from a big box store was under $100 and wouldn't be that hard to do myself, I figured that it would be reasonable to pay an extra $100-200 just to have it done while I was busy with other things. One guy over the phone tried to convince me that he would need to replace the entire cable system as well and lost any interest after I told him the cables were fine and the spring had failed from fatigue in the hook section where the cable was attached. Someone else was "dispatched" from a local-sounding number and showed up with out-of-state license plates on his van. He quoted me $800 for the repair. I tried not to be a jerk and told him thanks, but I'll be looking around some more. He then dropped the price to $400, saying he'd do the job for that if he could replace only one spring. After another thanks, but no thanks he became aggressive and said that was a special one-time price that ended when he left my driveway. He later texted me with a $200 dollar price, but by then I had already arranged for someone to do a full conversion to a torsion system for about $500.
kristianp 2y ago
Speaking of things you shouldn't do yourself, I should really get around to replacing that ceiling fan remote unit.
slowhand09 2y ago
Good article, but the author is using low numbers for the "speeding bullet" stats. Like many jobs both around the house and industrial stuff, know what you are doing before you attempt it. But go away with the "it's too dangerous for mere mortals" speeches and special legislation to protect us all. Many people are capable and willing to do work that is hard and or dangerous. Snowflake legislation doesn't help the world work. Darwin awards work for the betterment of society.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dajt 2y ago
Proper nerd chic, that site. Love it!

258 points by bronzekaiser 3y ago

Is there something I'm missing? A quick search of YouTube reveals tons of garage door spring replacement videos. It doesn't seem like the knowledge or parts are difficult to obtain.

TheGRS 3y ago
Its widely known as one of the most dangerous DIYs you can do. I think typically people working on them will get pushed off their ladder suddenly from the tension in the spring releasing.
- JKCalhoun 3y ago
  I worry more about a steel bar being thrown out with ample centrifugal force or coming around and taking a whack at your jaw.
- derekp7 3y ago
  Happened in my family a number of years ago. The instructions said to crank the spring 7 1/4 turns. So it was really make a 1/4 turn, repeat 7 times. Not 7 full turns plus 1/4 additional. After pulling the vice grips off, the door shot up with such force that it knocked the ladder over, causing a broken collar bone in the process.
  - jollyllama 3y ago
    I tried and failed to repair before, but didn't get injured. I had to take great care with the vice grips and other implements I was using; my intuition was they could become missiles.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    Holy crap what a terrible instruction!
8organicbits 3y ago
> If you've researched this subject at all, you will no doubt have heard that you shouldn't be attempting torsion spring replacement as a do-it-yourselfer.
bluGill 3y ago
There are several different springs, some are more dangerious than others. It isn't hard to safely replace any spring. However it isn't always obvious what is safe or unsafe and mistakes can kill.
glasss 3y ago
Probably the year this was published, the blog said the first version was in posted in 2002
mhuffman 3y ago
I suspect that a lot or all of those videos are about "extension spring" replacements and not "torsion spring" replacements. Probably shouldn't do either, but the torsion ones can have instant and catastrophic failure modes during installation or removal.
fencepost 3y ago
The page in question predates the founding of YouTube by ~3 years. It's in the middle of the Geocities time period, back when video distribution on the Internet was probably via Usenet and digital photography was probably on a Sony Mavica writing to floppy disks - or maybe to compact CDR if you were lucky.
- camtarn 3y ago
  Sort of. It was a different world, but not quite that different! Geocities was really dying by 2002. It had been bought by Yahoo! a few years previously, and they were intent on driving it into the ground. Video distribution was indeed fairly rare, but Flash sites were very widespread, sometimes including video, but more often vector animations. The Mavica was still around in 2002, although mostly in CD-R form. But cameras taking flash memory cards were also around, using a wild mix of CompactFlash, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, xD-Picture Card and MMC. SD had just been invented, and a year or so later I had my own cheap digital camera that took SD cards.
14 3y ago
yes this is one of those things that is scaring people but if you pay $500 some other guy can magically do it for you. The fact is that it is not that hard of a job and the dangers can easily be mitigated if you have some basic common sense and knowledge. Unfortunetly common sense is not that common and many people have been hurt doing this job. I myself would not hesitate to do this job like you say lots of information now days on how to do it this site is 22 years old in this post so now days you can see exactly what to do in many videos way before even attempting the job and that alone can take away most of the risk since you get hand held the entire process. I have to say I am a little disappointed in the HN crowd at how shy they are to do this job. All the handy men that do this job now are just humans like you and me and they all had to learn from scratch at some point. Again this is not that hard or dangerous but like the article says it has by shrouded in stories of danger and the trades people would not share their knowledge but told everyone how dangerous it would be so pay them money.

xyst 3y ago

i thought there were alternates to torsion spring as the mechanism to open and close garage doors by now. I guess it’s limited for residential installs

mikewarot 3y ago

Mine is broken and I'm waiting until I have enough savings to pay someone experienced to do it for us. I've worked on all sorts of things, but I don't want to risk my health that recklessly.

superkuh 3y ago

What an incredible web page design. It loads and paints instantly on any browser in existence and reflows faster than any site I've seen. The content is front and center and there's a ton of it. This is what peak website performance looks like.

gear54rus 3y ago
randomly changing content width and slapping random tables where they don't belong doesn't do it for me, sorry
martinky24 3y ago
Yeah but how will I get ~customized ads~ served to me? What if big-ad-tech doesn't know I'm tangentially interested in garage door opener content??
- abracadaniel 3y ago
  You will miss out on having your YouTube feed filled with garage door videos for the next 3 years as well.
xnx 3y ago
Still too much design. The centering is unnecessary.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
JKCalhoun 3y ago
Ha ha, and the compression artifacts on the images: how you know it's gonna load fast.
suddenclarity 3y ago
Not sure if satire. It's a terrible user experience for me. For future readers: https://motherfuckingwebsite.com https://motherfuckingwebsite.com http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com

levocardia 3y ago

I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough money to do this repair. >This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a professional to work on my roof too (and wince when they don't wear safety equipment). I'm not sure where "crushed by your own car" falls on the list, but while I'm perfectly comfortable digging around in the engine bay, you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car. 1. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/ https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/

JKCalhoun 3y ago
Yeah, I'm a DIY'er and I noped-out of this one too.
- linsomniac 3y ago
  Ditto, but after he charged me $550 it and used bars rather than a worm-drive "winder", I'm thinking that next time I'm going to either get a winder and do it myself (parts were sub $100) or at least get 3 quotes. I went with someone a friend liked, so I didn't do any shopping around, mea culpa. But, I guess he had to pay for his brand new F-250 somehow. :-) I was half expecting him to say I needed other maintenance including new rollers, at which point I was going to call BS, because I replaced those rollers a couple three years ago and I'm about a million uses away from their rated million open/closes. Double sealed ball bearings, ask for them by name.
the__alchemist 3y ago
Thank you. I agree on all examples. Absolutely not worth the risk. Not even close. I wince thinking about when I changed my own oil in my 20s... Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done under a professional lift.
- 3y ago

tmaly 3y ago

I have had to replace mine before. I was sitting in the family room. Big slam sound. I go out and check the garage and one of the springs had broke. It is really not a big deal to switch them out.

ianschmitz 3y ago
Oof. Just because you did it yourself does not mean it wasn’t extremely dangerous, or that the average home owner should attempt it. There’s an incredible amount of energy stored in those springs when wound up
- tmaly 2y ago
  I am not talking about wound up springs. This is a simple spring you usually see in pairs, one on each side of the garage door.
Knufferlbert 3y ago
That is a very weird take to me. That big slam presumably is the spring breaking, a lot of energy released at once in a rather uncontrolled fashion. The same energy will be released if you make a mistake installing it or the spring is faulty for whatever reason while you are standing right next to it. My take away is that it's to dangerous to do.
- tmaly 2y ago
  If you take the weight off the spring so it is limp, and you secure the door, this removes the danger.
happytoexplain 3y ago
It is absolutely a big deal.
imperialdrive 3y ago
It's not that big a deal if you're someone that considers getting on a 6+ foot ladder not a big deal, or changing your own oil, or going to a shooting range with a rifle, or I guess driving a big rental truck. It REALLY helps to watching someone do it in person the first time, like a handy neighbor or something. Definitely error on the side of calling a pro than doing yourself unless you can easily do a couple pull ups or lift a 50lb weight. Definitely ensure the rods you use fit snugly. It's super satisfying to get the job done though.

MarkusWandel 3y ago

I did one on the "do it with the spring relaxed and the door up" plan. The door isn't that heavy, you can just lift it with your hand to help the opener lift it up, and done. But cramped!! Getting the lift cable nicely wound on the lift pulley, giving it a bit of preload (pull) and getting it attached to the bottom of the door, all with the raised door in the way, and doing both sides, let's just say my supply of swear words was severely depleted by the end. But I did get it done, and no dangerous forces were involved. Whereas I saw a professional do it in about 5 minutes flat on the "wind the spring and block it and then hook everything up with the door down" plan. But that can kill you if you do it wrong.

WesleyJohnson 3y ago
16' x 7' metal garage doors are like 150lbs or more. Maybe I'm a weak old man, but I wouldn't say that "isn't that heavy".
- MarkusWandel 3y ago
  Mine is 8', uninsulated, and lifting was with the aid of the opener (which stalled without help, with the broken spring).
yard2010 3y ago
This reminded me of so many childhood memories with my dad..

toomuchtodo 3y ago

I do not recommend DIYing this work, but I do recommend springing for the high cycle (20k cycles) torsion springs if offered by your installer (TLDR larger wire size and a few inches longer to optimize for longevity). They are a bit more in material cost, but will save you labor costs, which will only go up in the future. Also, depending on your living arrangement and situation, an unexpected spring failure can be annoying AF if you can't get vehicles in and out of the structure.

ianschmitz 3y ago
I recently had mine serviced and the spring I have is original (~30 years old) and looking a little old. I asked the installer if I should replace it and he said “no. They don’t make them like they used to. They don’t last nearly as long. Wait until this one gives up”

MiguelHudnandez 3y ago

I was hoping this was going to be a new technology making these springs obsolete.

shiftpgdn 3y ago
I don't entirely understand why you can't just have a motor move the door for newer aluminum doors. They aren't that heavy.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  Because if someone needs to open the door and the power's out, or the motor has failed, many people won't be able to do it. That might be acceptable day-to-day, but, if opening the door is what's required to escape, say, a house fire, it's very much not acceptable.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
    Should be a door or egress window in any garage.
    - toast0 3y ago
      Kind of hard to get a car out the door or window. Usually getting a car out of a garage isn't a big deal, because who actually puts their car in there? But also, you don't need to drive your car out if your structure is on fire ... OTOH, you may want to drive somewhere else if your power is out, especially if it's out for an extended period of time.
- ok123456 3y ago
  They do. My gym has a garage door like this. Because of the lack of springs, I didn't realize it had a door opener until the owner went to lower it.
- birken 3y ago
  Coincidentally I just had a professionally done garage door spring replacement today, and I asked the repairman this question, and here is what he said: 1. The springs lift the door from the bottom, and from each side, which puts less load on the door itself as compared to if the entire weight were being lifted from the top middle every time. 2. The motors can be smaller, quieter and use less power 3. In case of power failure, the door is much more functional and safer the less apparently weight it has. Also the springs themselves are very unlikely to be dangerous (as long as you don't try to replace them yourself), because he said they almost always break when the door is at the closed state, because that is when they are under the most tension. Therefore on the whole, the springs in practice offer no practical safety risk, while greatly increasing the safety of the door in it's normal operation while also reducing wear and tear on the door. They also allow people to have heavier types of doors if they want them.

neilv 3y ago

> This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. I wonder what the net impact of an article like this is: * How much money is saved by garage door owners? * How much money is lost by professionals? * How many people are injured/killed because this article made them think this was doable at acceptable risk, when they otherwise wouldn't have attempted it? * How many people would've attempted it anyway, and would've been injured, but this article helped them not to be injured? Modern bonus: * How many people are injured because a YouTube/TikTok/etc. DIY influencer is informed by this article, makes a YouTube video that muddies the information, and people are inspired by the influencer video to attempt it?

mildchalupa 3y ago
Life's dangerous.

linsomniac 3y ago

Nobody seems to mention keeping the springs lubed for longevity. What's the groups thinking on that? I keep a spray bottle of lube by the door and shoot it every few months, which is probably overkill, but it's so easy. Then just wipe off the excess and grime maybe yearly.

zdragnar 3y ago
Might help with corrosion, too. My grandfather had a very old garage door and opener, and one day something gave and it blew apart. It sounded very much like a shotgun had been fired inside the garage. Fortunately, nobody was in or near the garage when it happened, but I'll remember it every time "garage door spring" comes up in conversation.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  We had a corroded one that still functioned but I finally buckled under the RACKET the thing made every time the door opened and closed and got it replaced anyway. Every single time you opened or closed it, it sounded like a goddamn car crash going on out front. Ugh.
bumby 3y ago
At least according to the article, the main failure mode is fatiguing, so I’m not sure lube would help with that, unless the corrosion is really bad. Most materials have a finite amount of cycles in them (although I’m a bit skeptical of the authors 7 year estimate…it seems low to me)
- linsomniac 3y ago
  Doesn't the rubbing of the coils against each other contribute to fatigue?
  - manfre 3y ago
    Yes, it does.

tonetegeatinst 3y ago

So I recently helped my dad replace 2 of these springs. He is no engineer but used to be a firefighter and straight up told me "you don't respect the power of the spring....you will die" I don't think he ever had to respond to a call where someone died trying to do this....but I bet he had some local story of the dangers these pose growing up. TLDR treat dangerous things with respect and you vastly increase your odds. Be it a firearm or a chemical or a fast spinning lathe.....danger can be lurking anuwhere and when you recognise it a d stop and develop a aproach to mitigate risks.....you can help elimate stupid mistakes that could really cost you. TLDR its better to have annoyingly boring procedures than just wing it and hope it goes well.

VincentEvans 3y ago

Reading some of the comment section here makes this veteran DIYer sneer. Ya’ll need to “grow some” and unlearn helplessness. Pay someone else who learned the simple steps to do the simple work and save yourself the time for more productive activities, but stop congratulating yourself on “avoiding a disaster” - too much drama for the task at hand here.

TheGRS 3y ago
Its not a regular thing to work on for the majority of people. What's the point of manning up for this particular DIY if the danger is high? Is it really that big of an ego hit to pay someone for a job once in awhile?
happytoexplain 3y ago
I'm sorry, but this "sneering" attitude is hideous. It's OK to do this job yourself if you have enough experience. It's also OK to not do it yourself because it is, in fact, dangerous. It's also OK to suggest that other DIY'ers err on the side of caution if they aren't 100% confident. What's not OK is insisting broadly to man up and do it yourself, stop being helpless, etc. You could encourage an innocent person to severely injure themselves. It's pointless and irresponsible.
dang 3y ago
"Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html If you know more than others, that's great, but in that case please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=share%20know%20learn%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... Putdowns don't help anybody, and make less interesting reading.
bitfilped 3y ago
It also only takes one mistake to severely injure yourself and permanently reduce your quality of life, it's worth considering the value you put on that when deciding these things. I like DIYing as well, but sometimes the risk vs reward isn't worth some extra money. People who get injured doing DIY work often have a similar attitude as yours until they make a critical mistake taking on something they "understand" and haven't done before.

hk1337 3y ago

> Usenet newsgroup alt.home.repair This dude is old school.

crmd 3y ago

The author's intentionally verbose/non-linear storytelling technique, for example the two paragraph detour that describes his ladder and the ladder company's bankruptcy, and the 19 paragraph deep dive on garage door repair business marketing, makes it very hard for my brain to absorb the core information I was looking for (the procedure to replace the springs). I know I'm kind of missing the point/creative intent of this essay, and I appreciate the non-linear full-of-detours style in other genres. For example I'm a huge fan of Norm MacDonald whose long, impossible-to-follow stories would often drive unaware audiences and talkshow hosts crazy. But for technical things I personally find the style super annoying and feeling like the author is trying to flex on how much engineering, business, and trivia knowledge he has in many adjacent topics. I actually get anxiety thinking about getting trapped at a bar or party interacting with somebody who talks like this :-) Curious how other readers feel about this, especially those who have the exact opposite reaction!

hvs 3y ago
This is basically what the "early Internet" looked like that people often write paeans to. Lots of pages written by people very dedicated to a weirdly specific thing while also peppering it with nonsequiturs and their crazy theory about who runs the "real" government. It was fine, but hardly the glorious wonderland often portrayed. (Not that the current Internet is without its flaws, but if I want to learn something from someone it is a million times easier today than it was in the late-90's and early-00's.
- crmd 3y ago
  Yeah, that's a good point and it makes me wonder if the modern web has shrunk my attention span. I used to often meet this exact type of engineer early in my career as an enterprise data storage consultant in the 90s and early 2000s. I would say the most common "character" I would run into at a customer site was "UNIX libertarian hippie guy" who would love to weave politics, especially about privacy, freedom of speech, government overreach, new world order, esoteric obsessive hobbies, etc into technical discussions. I feel like the typical tech worker today either has very different socio-political views, or keeps their politics out of our workplace interactions.

throwaway2037 3y ago

This blog feels like something from Internet hyperspace: Informative, but shitty formatting / layout. I say the latter with genuine love -- no trolling / hate. This blog post could have been posted in 1994! Can we please get more of these on HN!?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dang 3y ago

Related: I Replaced Deadly Garage Door Torsion Springs and Lived to Tell the Tale - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 - Sept 2021 (10 comments)

adrr 3y ago

Why are we still using springs?

unglaublich 3y ago
Did you even read the article? Why are we still using passive, reliable mechanisms to reduce the force needed to move heavy objects?
- hoppyhoppy2 3y ago
  >Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that". https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
anamexis 3y ago
Why not?
- adrr 3y ago
  Seems like there should be something better that can last longer and not kill you if you try to fix it.
  - riversflow 3y ago
    Why does it seem like there should be something better?
    - adrr 3y ago
      Our garage doors openers are better. No more loud chain and they last longer too.
  - selcuka 3y ago
    There are safer spring systems, such as TorqueMaster that goes into a hollow torque tube.

arh68 3y ago

> but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs "Comparable" in that it's way, way greater, sure. Unless we're talking dangerous car repairs, like using a spring compressor to disassemble a strut &c. Or using harbor freight jack stands.. When my spring broke, I thought someone crashed their car into my house. It's an incredible amount of energy. Garage door springs are up there with lathes & table saws, in terms of danger (IMO).

pavel_lishin 3y ago
I once bought a table saw, then watched a YouTube safety video about table saws, and then sold my table saw. I wouldn't even consider owning a lathe. I know my limits, and even the chop saw in the garage gives me the shivers.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  I used a Craftsman radial arm saw for a while. One day, I rotated the head 90 degrees to do some ripping. The saw grabbed the wood, and climbed up on it, and fired it at unbelievable speed at the wall. It punched a neat hole in the wall the exact size of the board, and the board disappeared into the next room. I got rid of the saw after that, and bought a sweet Makita cutoff saw instead, and a table saw for ripping. I also bought one of those full face shields people use with chain saws. I like these better than the usual shields because they are a wire mesh, and screens don't fog up.
  - rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
    For what it's worth the 3M full-face respirators are very well designed in that the inlet air passes over your face and then into a sub mask where it is inhaled. Exhaled air is directed out of the front and down. I spent hundreds of hours with one (the FF400) in unconditioned spaces running power tools in fairly strenuous ways and never had it fog at all.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  If I ever need a table saw I'm getting one of the pricy ones that stops before it chews up your hand[1]. My cousin is a professional furniture maker and lost the tips of 3 fingers to a table saw. It happens quickly. [1] https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vCuLs31fDaQ https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vCuLs31fDaQ

chasd00 3y ago

the people you pay to do it aren't going to do it any safer than you would and if they get hurt you're liable. You may as well watch some youtube, take your time, and do it yourself.

sfilmeyer 3y ago
I question whether it's actually true that they "aren't going to do it any safer than you would". I'd expect the typical person I hire to have a lot more experience than me which would give them a chance to be safer, to the point I'd expect it to overcome even the fact that they're probably not taking their time as much as I would. Separately, being liable for something happening to someone else and that same thing happening to me are not equivalent. Macabre as it is, I'd rather pay out (or have my insurance pay) the lawsuit for a professional hired for a particular task ending up grievously injured than end up grievously injured myself. In a lot of cases, I'd doubt you'd even be financially liable. From a moral standpoint there's still some culpability, but in the case of garage springs I think your obligation is more to stress to the professional that you're happy for them to take their time and you're willing to pay accordingly than it is to subject yourself to the risk instead. From a societal standpoint, a few repairpeople building up expertise at a particular task is safer than everyone doing it individually.
- scotty79 3y ago
  Experience brings complacency. Averagely experienced woodworkers loose fingers most often. When you are new to something you are super careful. When you are veteran you made or seen somebody make all mistakes already. When you are averagely experienced it's the most likely time for your confidence to exceed your capability.
unglaublich 3y ago
I rather pay for a dead person than be the dead person. Also, you might expect some professionalism from a person advertising themselves as capable of doing the job, so not sure how your liability assumption holds up.
ajcp 3y ago

theogravity 3y ago

I had mine fail on me a few years ago. Mine was a single spring, and after researching on how to replace, I decided that I'd rather pay someone else to take the risk. It was around $700 at the time and the installer installed two springs (side by side) to handle a failure event with one of them.

rootusrootus 3y ago

I've had springs replaced in the past, and that's one of those jobs I'm perfectly willing to pay someone else to do. The cost is insignificant. I'll happily wire up my own 240V appliances, work underneath my properly supported car, etc. But garage door springs? Nah, go ahead, you do it, send me the bill.

dave78 3y ago
The cost really is the key for me. We had one replaced a few months ago and it was a few hundred dollars and was done the same day. I usually prefer to DIY, but it would have taken me a while just to measure everything, round up the right spring and acquire it, get the correct rods and cut them to size, etc. I'm sure that would consume at least an afternoon for me and it would still cost something to acquire the parts. The savings just isn't worth it. If the cost to have it done professionally was $3000, it might be a different story.

uticus 3y ago

If they are this bad to replace, should I be worried about them randomly failing? I mean, I drive right underneath them like twice a day backing in and out.

buescher 3y ago
They typically fail when wound (closed), not unwound (open), because that's when they're stressed. Cables can fail when winding the drum (open), but you have two.
- therein 3y ago
  That doesn't instill any peace of mind. So they are normally under stress and might explode at some random moment? Edit: Okay, that [0] doesn't look too violent. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik
  - XorNot 3y ago
    What gets you as I understand it is that the turning handles for the springs. If you lose your grip on them its a rod of steel that's going to flung around at high speed with enough force to counter-weight an entire garage door.
  - mzs 3y ago
    There is a rod that contains the broken spring. If an installed spring were to break when the door was open the most likely cause of danger is a few hundred pounds of garage door coming down on whatever was under it, so wait for the door to fully open before driving through.
  - NegativeLatency 3y ago
    Driving is probably the more dangerous activity there, if it helps you take your mind off the springs.
userbinator 3y ago
The roof of your car can likely survive the garage door falling on it. Unless you're in a convertible.

elzbardico 3y ago

At my home country we used counter-weights, pulleys and cables. Took more space, it is arguably uglier (but who cares how it looks on the inside?) but the cable usually lasts for ages and fixing it is not a life-threatening procedure.

elzbardico 3y ago
Torsion springs are BMWs, the expensive, over-engineered, beautiful, high performance style of doing this. Most of use would be just fine with a Toyota instead.
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
How does a counterweight work? A torsion spring is great because as it unwinds, the tension decreases. As the garage door transitions from 200 lbs of vertical load in the closed position to almost 0 lbs when it's mostly parallel to the ceiling, a properly sized and wound spring reduces the force in synchrony with the door position. Wouldn't a counterweight provide insufficient force at the bottom and/or excess force at the top?
- Horffupolde 3y ago
  It’s like for an elevator. The motor is there for the friction but the potential energy of the system is approximately constant.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    An elevator on the ground floor and an elevator at the top floor have the "same" weight. Not so for a 100%, 50%, and 0% open garage door. The 0% open door is the full weight; the 100% open door has very little weight (as most of the door is on the horizontal track).
- cyberax 3y ago
  You use multiple weights that telescope into each other ( https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ ), or a segmented counterweight (Kelley E-Systems one company that does this). But they require space and a sturdy housing. Springs are as compact as you can get. There are also some safety concerns, a cable connecting the door to the counterweight can break, and/or slip. This can result in pieces of metal flying everywhere. A broken spring typically stays contained. Personally, I would do one of the counterweight systems for my new house.

galdosdi 3y ago

valleyer 3y ago
Presumably because the document was not updated in 2013. So no part of the document was first published in that year.
m3kw9 3y ago
He needs all the luck with that job or paying it forward for next time

lebuffon 3y ago

Reminds me of the old engineer joke: "Did you know you can save $27.00 if you build your own refrigerator?"

nkurz 3y ago
I don't know it, and searching got me nowhere. Could you expand?
- xattt 3y ago
  The BOM of a DIY refrigerator (or anything of this sort), built using retail price components, is almost as much as a manufactured fridge that was built using components bought at a volume discount.
fbdab103 3y ago
How is this the first time I have heard this? Just golden wisdom that is broadly applicable to so much DIY.
anyfactor 2y ago
I understand the idea of DIY and self repair, but doing some kind of specialized DIY work will require special tools, domain knowledge, ability to fix things on the go, ability to stay focused after a full week of work etc. I am not dismissing DIY at all, but YouTube repair channels make it sound so easy but viewers forget making these repair videos is their job while your job is writing software. When you try it out IRL these repairs are always considerably more difficult and nobody talks about shipping cost that makes 5 minute replacements considerably more expensive.

winrid 3y ago

My grandfather is in his 70s and does this as his "retirement job", it's generally around $500 last I asked him...

iancmceachern 3y ago

My dad would do anything, with confidence. This is the one thing he wouldn't touch. Me too.

mistrial9 3y ago

yes this is dangerous ! first hand experience with a commercial rollup door. A small crowbar is used to tighten the final install, about four meters up off the ground, too.

Waterluvian 3y ago

> so if you have any doubts about your abilities to do risky physical work on your own, hire the job out like everyone else. The problem I witness is that the people who kill or maim themselves will tell you they were confident. When people aren’t confident, their brains are responding properly to the danger and it generally leads them to making good decisions.

fargle 2y ago
hard disagree. confidence != complacency/over-confidence. self-confidence is actually an absolutely key factor to safety. it doesn't mean you are blind to the dangers, rather that you recognize them, are able manage and handle risks and how to mitigate them, and above all are not fearful. you absolutely need to trust yourself. if you are not feeling confident you are NOT going to be safe. not being confident leads to timidity, second-guessing, maybe saying "ugh. i guess that is normal?" when they shouldn't. and if something goes wrong, you can't freeze, you have to be able react appropriately. the first time you do a mildly risky thing like this, it's wise to do more research, go a little slower and think about each step. but there's no reason that you can't approach it with a safe and confident attitude, even the first time, if you are prepared - or even better - have a trainer/mentor that can check you. when you feel "unconfident" or fearful that is when you should walk away.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

The reason it's not expensive to have someone else do it is that if done properly it's not dangerous. Otherwise culture would be lumping garage door repairmen with emergency responders who take dangerous jobs but keep society functioning. You couldn't get it done for $200 if the career killed people frequently. The "if done properly" is critical, yes, if done wrong it's incredibly dangerous, but if you understand and respect it there's minimal chance of harm. DIYed it three times now (on different doors of course) without incident.

Horffupolde 3y ago
Famous last words.
- Loughla 3y ago
  That makes no sense. I'm with OP. You don't see mass casualties among overhead door installation crews. So, there must be a safe way to do it. I've also installed around 6 overhead doors, and followed all safety instructions that I learned from an overhead door installer. I've never once been killed.
  - Horffupolde 3y ago
    It’s the arrogance that kills. Not the spring.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
On what planet do you live where dangerousness of work has anything to do with pay? EMTs, who are basically doing the bulk of "saving people's lives" - are paid the lowest wages, worse than firefighters, police, and often even the dispatchers. Why? Because the market is totally saturated with former armed services folks. And in many states, assaulting a cop will get you in a fuckton of trouble, assaulting a firefighter will get you in a fair bit of trouble, but assaulting an EMT will (depending on the state) often get you...an ambulance ride, which you were probably getting anyway. Retail workers, transportation workers, field workers...all very dangerous jobs and bottom-barrel pay. Same for people in meat processing; just look up the articles about migrant children working in meat packing plants (or don't if you have kids, because there are some incredibly horrific things happening to them.)

1970-01-01 3y ago

Excellent example of safety third. If you know how to be careful, don't be afraid to do the job.

b3lvedere 2y ago
Or if you know it is going to be a huge pain in the.. then hire someone. Recently i had all the central heating connections in my house replaced by smart thermostats. I could have done that myself given enough time, but i knew the old current system was from around 1970/1980 and i would face major problems. So i hired some guy to do it for me. Agreed upon a fixed price as well. It took him around 11 hours to get everything working.

Scoundreller 3y ago

One scam/scheme not mentioned in the article is calling the phone number on the sticker of the vendor that installed your opener. Those are very valuable advertisement slots. Call anyone but them. There's not a ton of specialization in residential garage door systems.

stavros 3y ago
Can you clarify a bit? Why are they valuable ad slots? Why wouldn't I call the vendor that installed my opener to repair it?
- lolinder 3y ago
  Presumably because when they see the sticker they'll know that you called them without shopping around, so they'll quote you something ridiculous and bank on you not realizing you could easily get a second opinion.
  - stavros 3y ago
    Ah, the vendor doesn't run a generic repair shop? This makes sense if the only people that will call the vendor for a repair are the people who had the vendor install the thing in the first place.
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      It's often the builder's contractor. Years/decades down the line, that phone number is worth $$$.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      They don't have to know the sticker is there while on the phone, only by the time they give you the quote. Once they show up at the house to diagnose the problem they'll be able to see the sticker or not. To be clear, this is just me speculating about how such a scam would run, I've never seen it or heard of it.

giantg2 3y ago

I wonder if longer life springs could be made from something like chrome silicon, or if the application of force won't work that way for that material.

wigglewoggle 3y ago

It's interesting whenever this comes up on Reddit and there are a hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is, but on closer inspection you can see the comments cannot discriminate between important details - eg. talking about how dangerous extension springs are, having no clue that they are different than torsion springs. Always fun to see how many people will pretend they have knowledge on a subject they have no experience in.

MichaelMug 3y ago
> hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is And every time a similar post or question is made the same responses are parroted again. I’ve read so much Reddit in college that I would play a game where id try to guess what the top voted comments would say. After a while it becomes tiring to read the same things over and over again.
- pests 2y ago
  Yep, can even go levels deep and correctly guess replies to relies. Or what song are they going to sing line by line? too predictable.
winkelmann 3y ago
Something I've noticed is that, when under the guise of safety/"don't do this thing", netizens seem to have few inhibitions sharing information from topics they barely understand or have experience in. Some caution is always good, but I feel like people are too comfortable using it as an excuse for sharing unsubstantiated information as fact.

mildchalupa 3y ago

People think garage door springs are like diffusing a bomb. It's not that bad if you are competent and have the correct equipment.

b3lvedere 2y ago
People who nickel and dime everything usually do not have the correct equipment and most of them are hardly competent as well.

irjustin 3y ago

I'll agree with Reddit and most of the posts here. It's too dangerous to be worth it. Once every 3-7 years replacement at ~US$150-350 YMMV is honestly not that much money saved vs the risk.

kstrauser 3y ago
Once every 3-7 years? I've heard of them breaking before but I've never had it happen in a place I lived, including my parents' house growing up, and the houses I've personally owned. I've never had the spring worked on other than to have it installed in the first place. Again, I know they break sometimes. It should not be happening every few years. (But if/when it does, take my money. I'll replace my car's brakes and wire a new ceiling fan but I'm not touching that spring for love nor money.)

userbinator 3y ago

I wonder if the claims of danger are exaggerated to keep those in the business making $$$, and spread like rumours aided by the lack of information in that era. Now that there's YouTube, and an abundance of information (and accompanying misinformation, of course), the truth can come to light. I even found a supposedly scary warning video of a spring deliberately let go, and it's... underwhelmingly tame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrUIN6hClB4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrUIN6hClB4 Just remember to keep your hands away from it, which is easy to do with long winding rods that should be grasped at the ends for best leverage anyway.

RockRobotRock 3y ago

this article was very effective at convincing me I would never try this myself.

ARandomerDude 3y ago

I attempted an almost identical repair like this once and ended up in the ER. Don't do it. Call a pro.

linsomniac 3y ago

I think the next time I have to replace my torsion springs, I'm going to install the Coplay Ez-Set system, anyone have experience with it? It has a built in tensioning system. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion-Kit-for-16-ft-x-7-ft-Garage-Doors-191-lbs-211-lbs-LW-BROWN-A-16/207135205 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion... It has a built-in winder that uses a power drill. There are tools that will attach to the traditional winders and you can use a power drill, those tools are $800, which is a bit hard to swallow.

ehaskins 3y ago
I've installed doors with that system, or a very similar Menard's carries. Given the choice, I'd opt for it since it is easier to fine tune, but I'm not convinced it's safer than the traditional way. You still have to secure the door against unintentional movement and ensure everything is assembled correctly before tensioning. The only "safety" feature I see is it eliminates the appeal to use an inadequate tool to tension the spring, so resist the urge to use a flimsy old screwdriver and you'll probably have similar risk either way.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

porkbeer 3y ago

I have replaced these and am still alive. Apparently thats a big deal? When did we become so afraid of being responsible for our own safety?

j-a-a-p 3y ago

These doors are what we call a 'luxury problem': just more trouble because the premium door type was chosen. The single pane type door I know [0] are perhaps uglier, but they will last decades and do not need maintenance. They use normal springs. [0] https://www.novoferm.nl/producten/garagedeuren/kanteldeuren/ https://www.novoferm.nl/producten/garagedeuren/kanteldeuren/

weinzierl 2y ago

"Phew! The hazardous torsion is all removed from the old spring. Now the disassembly can begin, with our old friend gravity as the only acceleration threatening personal safety." Haha, also reminds me of how *"The Actions In This Video Are Performed by Professionals" became completely meaningless, because most of the time they very obviously aren't.

TomMasz 2y ago

I respect the enormous power of these springs and leave them to the pros.

stikit 2y ago

I replaced my torsion springs a few weeks ago with little drama. The hardest part was measuring the old springs so I could order the correct replacements. The reason I did it myself was 1) the springs used by contractors are typically lower quality and will last 10k cycles vs about 30k for the standard ones I ordered. 2) I wanted to learn how the system worked so I could adjust it as needed and know it was done right and not be reliant on an ‘expert’ same as why people work on their cars 3) labor costs in Seattle area are higher than most other areas. The best video on replacement is https://youtu.be/xOXO01rdZ5c?feature=shared https://youtu.be/xOXO01rdZ5c?feature=shared. I used zip ties to hold the cable pulleys and open mouthed bracket in place instead of the vice grips as he did in the video. I did not weigh the door. I did it alone, though probably not recommended. I ordered from DDM Garage Doors. I wouldn’t recommend Amazon vendors as they all look pretty sketch. Definitely order proper winding bars with good rubber stops to help you ensure you’ve inserted it fully before each wind. If you are at all mechanical minded (replaced a clothes dryer drum? ), this is doable. Just go slow and be safe. Took me about an hour to remove the old springs, 3 days to get parts and 3 hours to install including having to repeat the winding because the cables came off during the first try. I wore gloves, safety glasses and during the winding of the springs a bike helmet and an over the ear headset to protect my ears. Probably could have used teeth protection, and a chainsaw type face shield. The dangerous part is tightening the set bolts while the spring is tensioned . If you aren’t paying attention, I can see that it might be easy to bump the bar out of place, releasing the tension and potentially shooting the bolts back at you or the spring catching your gloves and fingers and shredding them.

winkelmann 2y ago
> I wore gloves I don't know if this also applies to garage door springs, but when working with lathes for example, it is often recommended to not wear gloves. I imagine if the spring comes loose, it might slash open your hand, but with a glove, it could fully grab it and basically wind up your hand and arm around itself.

__mharrison__ 2y ago

One of our garage door springs "popped" just last week. Had to recruit two of my kids to help me get the door open to back out the vehicles. Even an aluminum garage door is heavy.

pierat 2y ago

This garage door work is comparable to working on a vehicle suspension. Similar springs, similar preloading force, etc. And similar threat of death if you fuck up or do something stupid. Nothing wrong with doing things yourself, but make sure you're following basic safety standards and procedures. And don't do stupid hacks cause the actual tools are expensive. This is how you get injured or killed.

londons_explore 2y ago

The springs become pretty safe when contained with a simple cable down the middle right?

dpb001 2y ago

A year ago I had a spring fail in my old/cheap system with tension springs. I was surprised to see the level of scamminess present in this particular area of repair. After seeing that a set of replacement springs from a big box store was under $100 and wouldn't be that hard to do myself, I figured that it would be reasonable to pay an extra $100-200 just to have it done while I was busy with other things. One guy over the phone tried to convince me that he would need to replace the entire cable system as well and lost any interest after I told him the cables were fine and the spring had failed from fatigue in the hook section where the cable was attached. Someone else was "dispatched" from a local-sounding number and showed up with out-of-state license plates on his van. He quoted me $800 for the repair. I tried not to be a jerk and told him thanks, but I'll be looking around some more. He then dropped the price to $400, saying he'd do the job for that if he could replace only one spring. After another thanks, but no thanks he became aggressive and said that was a special one-time price that ended when he left my driveway. He later texted me with a $200 dollar price, but by then I had already arranged for someone to do a full conversion to a torsion system for about $500.

kristianp 2y ago

Speaking of things you shouldn't do yourself, I should really get around to replacing that ceiling fan remote unit.

slowhand09 2y ago

Good article, but the author is using low numbers for the "speeding bullet" stats. Like many jobs both around the house and industrial stuff, know what you are doing before you attempt it. But go away with the "it's too dangerous for mere mortals" speeches and special legislation to protect us all. Many people are capable and willing to do work that is hard and or dangerous. Snowflake legislation doesn't help the world work. Darwin awards work for the betterment of society.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dajt 2y ago

Proper nerd chic, that site. Love it!