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How would you say “She said goodbye too many times before.” in Latin?
- VikingCoder 3y agoHow am I the first person here to uselessly link to the Latin Lesson scene from the Life of Brian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjOfQfxmTLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjOfQfxmTLQ
- neilkakkar 3y agoI'm very confused, why is this so upvoted, someone mind explaining?
- mannykannot 3y agoAside from anything else, human language and its comprehension is an important aspect of AI, and the sheer variety among grammars is a salient feature that cannot be ignored.
- baq 3y agoPeople found this interesting. People upvoted.
- gpderetta 3y agoNot only that, I actually clicked to read the article!
- AlecSchueler 3y agoI'm guessing other people found it intellectually stimulating.
- jukea 3y agoI’m surprised myself, but I found it interesting to see how the sentence got compressed to only 2 words in Latin.
- renewiltord 3y agoInterestingly it's only one letter in the esolang Rewi: û
- barbarr 3y agoIt's the degree of compression that can be achieved, from 7 words to 2.
- petercooper 3y agoEnglish can do reasonably well if you don't mind poetic sounding language (and, to be fair, Shakespeare compressed down a lot of things into shorter, poetic idioms we use today). Something like her farewells overran, perhaps.
- surgical_fire 3y agoThe mystery of internet points is both fascinating and inscrutable.
- BoxFour 3y agoIt's a fascinating bit of information that demands minimal time to absorb and comprehend. It's a refreshing break from the usual content seen here while still being intellectually stimulating.
- talkingtab 3y agoI am not sure why I upvoted this. Perhaps because I have dealt with C, C++, Java, JavaScript and some Python. I know a smattering of French, German, Dutch, Japanese and Czech. So perhaps that too. Or perhaps because of the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis.
- defrost 3y agoIt directly relates to the recent ETL (Extract - Transform - Load) thread patterns. Here someone seeks to do for Maroon 5's This Love what has been done for Greenday's Boulevard of Broken Dreams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mip30YF1iuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mip30YF1iuo I look forward to near future efforts with the Sleaford Mods' Blog Maggot.
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- dTal 3y agoPeople wondering why this is on Hacker News - probably the fascinating part is how a relatively complex 7 word phrase in English translates idiomatically into a 2 word phrase in Latin.
- alcover 3y agoOh yes! It touches language and compression, both dear subjects to programmers. If the accepted answer stands, that's remarkable. I wonder how one could measure a language efficiency. Maybe syllable count ? But one would need a sort of assembly to translate to and verify that a sentence computes the intended information.
- enkid 3y agoThe problem is that there are complex concepts that translate to a single syllable in some languages but requires a lot of context or explanation in other languages. Would these be "single instructions" or multiple? Then when you really break it down, many concepts are used grammatically but are not required based on their context. Should you count that as extraneous or not? An example is that some languages use a case system to indicate the epistemology of a statement, how the speaker knew that information (i.e. saw it first hand, heard it second hand, or saw evidence of it). Depending on the context, this may be vital or extraneous. Therefore the same statement that is "compressed" to remove useless information would be compressed two different ways. That doesn't seem feasible. All of this is to say, this sounds good in theory, but the complexities on practice are insurmountable.
- 93po 3y ago> the complexities on practice are insurmountable. “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra” begs to differ
- alcover 3y ago> single syllable in some languages but requires a lot of context or explanation in other languages then don't these other langs do a 'bad job' at compression ? > That doesn't seem feasible In general maybe not. But for some restricted 'assembly' ? "The cat is on the table" has no ambiguity. And in some langs like Polish it compresses better : "Kot jest na stole" (Cat is on table), same info, better syllable-wise compression (5 vs 7).
- tonetheman 3y agoIt pleases me greatly that there is a latin stackexchange.
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoWould Latin GPT come up with that 2 word phrase?
- tmalsburg2 3y agoGPT4 response: You can translate the phrase "She said goodbye too many times before" into Latin as "Dixit vale saepe nimis antea". I asked GPT4 whether it could make the translation shorter to which it responded that Latin was inherently a verbose language, so no.
- z2 3y agoFor what it's worth, I asked the same two questions to GPT 3.5 and got: Yes, in Latin, you can say "multum vale" to mean "goodbye many times" or "vale nimis" to mean "goodbye too much"
- tmalsburg2 3y agoNot surprised. These models are inherently stochastic and will therefore happily say A and ¬A when prompted multiple times. A fundamental difference to how humans operate. (You could say that humans are stochastic, too, but they're stochastic in different ways.)
- sandworm101 3y agoYes, latin crams more meaning into each word (gender, tense ect) but that doesnt make it superior, rather different. English is generally short than french, but french remains the more exacting and clear language for communicating specific ideas.
- lgeorget 3y ago[citation needed]?!
- OtomotO 3y agoNitpick: it's etc for et cetera
- masswerk 3y agoIt's "&c" – Latin ligatures are important, especially in a thread like this! ;-)
- r0b1n 3y ago…
- sandworm101 3y agoAnd sentences generally end with periods, or release from confinement.
- vgalin 3y agoFor further nitpicking: "etc." shall also end with '.' as it is the abbreviated form of "et cetera/caetera". Also, when used in an enumeration, it shall be preceded by a comma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera
- stinos 3y agoOne could also say that French is 'rather different', not better or more clear. Let alone superior (though I do not know where that claim came from).
- misja111 3y ago[flagged]
- efficax 3y agochatgpt is no cicero
- tgv 3y agoIlla doesn't even mean "she", and I see no other use for it in the translation. But my Latin is very rusty.
- masswerk 3y agoMine shows some serious oxidation, too, but, if I'd go with this, at all, I'd prefer, "saepe valere dixit illa antea nimis" (I guess, "saepe" is really a bit luxurious here, while I can see the need for expressing, even emphasizing the gender related aspect.)
- tuomosipola 3y agoIlla means "she". (Thesaurus linguae Latinae 7,1:349)
- KeplerBoy 3y agoMeh, ChatGPTs answer might be very different if it would have been trained on this stackexchange thread.
- tail_exchange 3y agoI think you can achieve the same "compression" in other latin languages. In portuguese, you may be able to translate this as "despedira-se demais" or "despediu-se demais" (despediu-se = she said goodbye, despedira-se = pluperfect form of she said goodbye, demais = too many times).
- lopis 3y agoYou lost the gender of the person though, which from my understanding is preserved in Latin with a verb suffix.
- tail_exchange 3y agoThat is true. It could also be used by a "he", so there is a bit of ambiguity.
- trgn 3y agoI'm really curious, where is the gendered information in "valedixit"? I feel like the proposed translation misses that romantic weight by keeping the gender ambiguous. What am I missing?
- _aavaa_ 3y agoThe thing missing is the context in which the sentence is used. From the comments on stackexchange: "if the context refers to this person enough to make it clear who "she" is, it should also make it clear who "he/she/it/they" is."
- trgn 3y agoThat makes a lot of sense, thank you.
- tail_exchange 3y agoI don't speak Latin, but according to my short research (aka googling), it does not distinguish between third-person masculine and feminine. So the ambiguity is also present in Latin.
- Lio 3y agoI realise it's from song lyrics so doesn't have to make sense but this instinctively scans as poor grammar to me. Shouldn't it be "she'd" past tense? Otherwise it's just someone saying "goodbye too many times before" and someone who'd previously said "goodbye" more than is acceptable. ...I'm almost certainly overthinking this but I'd wager that tense error is important when translating to Latin. It's like reading XML where someone's left out a closing tag. :P
- ses1984 3y agoDoesn’t adding the ‘d change it from past tense to passive voice past tense?
- Lio 3y agoI honestly don't know but to me it sounds like present tense. I'd be interested to know though. It just reads as ...wrong to me. I guess it might be an English dialect thing.
- slhck 3y agoI'd say: "She has said goodbye too many times before." Because it still has relevance for the present, it should be present perfect. Unless if course it's about finally quitting, then the past tense makes sense.
- Lio 3y ago> "She has said goodbye too many times before." Yeah, that sounds OK. Probably better than my original suggestion. Or even the contracted "She's said goodbye too many times before".
- jameshart 3y agoI always heard the lyric as ‘she’s said goodbye..’, which both scans and makes more grammatical sense. Also matches the tense of the previous line - ‘this love has taken its toll..’
- DeTheBug 3y agoYou can do something similar with Arabic, I can think of few ways to squeeze it into 4~2 words phrase (variations) without sacrificing clarity
- ClaraForm 3y agoIf we open it up to Arabic slang then we can almost compress to 1, right? رَحلِتَك Because we can use the form of the verb that both disparagingly implies "sends you away", in the imperative form to imply what's actually being requested (obedience of repetition). Of course, it's not perfect, but definitely easily doable with 2.
- DeTheBug 3y agoOh no I was not talking about slangs, this can be like ودعت كثيرا قالت وداعا كثيرا ودعت مرارا I'm Iraqi but I'm by no means an Arabic expert, I'm pretty sure there is a better way to give a more accurate expression for this in Arabic
- samjohnation111 3y ago[dead]
- pizzafeelsright 3y agoHer goodbye's a lie. She lies goodbye. Oft repeated, her exits depleted.
- alcover 3y agosyllable count english 10 - She said goodbye too many times before latin 6 - nimium valedīxit polish 7 - Zbyt często się żegnała german 10 - Sie hat sich schon zu oft verabschiedet french 11 - Elle a dit au revoir trop souvent avant italian 12 - Ha detto addio troppe volte prima portuguese 11 - despedira-se demasiadamente (user tail_exchange) 14 - Ela despediu-se demasiadas vezes antes (deepl) nb: the target sentence has 'before', which is lacking in some submissions.
- erremerre 3y agoSpanish: Despidiose excesivamente. 10
- alcover 3y agoDoes this not lack the 'before then' nuance ?
- flobosg 3y ago“Despidióse excesivamente antes”?
- GonzaloQuero 3y agoIt doesn't. "Despidió" is already past tense. That said, "despidiose", while valid, is quite archaic. If it was me, I'd say "se despidió demasiado" or even "se despidió de más" Edit: Reading the meaning of the song, I'd say "dijo adios demasiadas veces", as it stays closer to the original meaning.
- jiofj 3y agoThat's too lossy, and "despidiose" is trying too hard.
- flobosg 3y ago> is trying too hard Maybe, but still a valid pronominal verb.
- monster_group 3y agoWhile I don't know Latin, I do know Sanskrit. In Sanskrit you can say entire sentences with one word. For example "जिगमिषामि।" is a full sentence and it means "I want to go." This is possible because Sanskrit (and Latin) are highly inflected languages. The price for brevity is that now you have to remember many more forms of verbs and nouns. So nothing impressive (at least to me).
- screamingninja 3y agoI find it highly impressive, but that's just me.
- xdennis 3y agoThat's nothing, in Nuxalk, clhp'xwlhtlhplhhskwts' means "he had had in his possession a bunchberry plant". It's a single word sentence with no vowels, pronounced as [xɬpʼχʷɬtʰɬpʰɬːskʷʰt͡sʼ] (see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/x%C5%82p%CC%93x%CC%A3%CA%B7%C5%82t%C5%82p%C5%82%C5%82sk%CA%B7c%CC%93#Pronunciation https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/x%C5%82p%CC%93x%CC%A3%CA%B7%C... ). It's formed from: xł- (“have”) + p̓x̣ʷłt (“bunchberry”) + -łp (“plant”) + -łł (pluperfect marker) + -s (possessive marker) + kʷc̓ (of uncertain function)
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- nihiven 3y agoI read the linked info and the comments asking why this was upvoted and it's a good question. The liked answer feels a lot like a text version of a TikTok video. It's an interesting fact that takes very little time to read and makes us feel that we've learned something about a interesting topic outside of our expertise. A TikTok example is a video about a 'little known' fact of quantum mechanics. The linked info gives us the same type of satisfaction we would get from a TikTok, but is on Hacker News because it's presented in a more 'legitimate' way.
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- bitdivision 3y agoMostly unrelated, but there was a study [0] some time ago which said that the information rate of all languages was roughly the same. So if a language had more data conveyed per syllable, then it might be spoken slower for instance. 0: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aaw2594 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aaw2594
- avgcorrection 3y agoSpanish (Spain) is often spoken faster than English. And in my experience if you translate something from English to Spanish the text becomes 20%–30% longer.
- bitdivision 3y agoYes, I agree, Spanish is generally more verbose. The weird one is that Latin American Spanish is spoken much slower, but with the same information per syllable (presumably). I always wondered if the information rate would actually be the same for Spanish (LATAM) and Spanish (Spain) - my suspicion is that it's lower in LATAM. Perhaps pauses and connective words could account for the difference though?
- dmoy 3y ago> always wondered if the information rate would actually be the same As a general rule of thumb, human spoken languages all communicate about 5 bytes per second of info. The limit seems to be not because of auditory processing or verbal issues, but rather how fast someone can process thoughts. I don't know about latam vs Spain specifically, that would be interesting. Seems unlikely that it would be more varied than e.g. English, Italian, and Japanese, which all tend towards the same ~5Bps limit.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ihm 3y agoThere's huge variation in Latin American dialects, there's definitely no universal speed of speech.
- academia_hack 3y agoI'm really sad at how much Latin I've managed to lose since my school days. It's really an incredible language and this stack exchange post shows some of that versatility. Because the words in Latin contain dense grammatical information in their spelling, you can be much more flexible with word order. This gives classical poets the ability to do crazy things with word ordering to create "word pictures" where the structuring ordering of the words conveys some additional meaning. This can be done in English too, but classical Latin is almost made for it. For example, Catulus 85: "Ōdī et amō. Quārē id faciam fortasse requīris. Nesciŏ, sed fierī sentiō et excrucior." The translation Wikipedia gives is: "I hate and I love. Why I do this, perhaps you ask. I know not, but I feel it happening and I am tortured." But there is so much brilliance in the structure of the poem that translation cannot really encapsulate. The last word "excrucior" (I am crucified) references a relationship between the structure of the first and second line. Each verb on the first line has a "mate" on the second. For example: odi (I hate)<->excrucior (I am tortured), requires (you ask) <-> nescio (I know). If you draw lines connecting these mates to each other, they form a number of crosses - referencing the "crux" in "excrucior". The poem literally depicts the torture instrument that is Catulus' love. Even more remarkably, this poem follows a strict metrical standard dictating the order of long and short syllables: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elegiac_couplet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elegiac_couplet and it achieves this meter in part due to the use of elision in the opening of the poem, where two vowel sounds get merged due to the ordering of words. "Odi et Amo" is read as "Odet Amo" as the the love and hate crush together and evoke that sense of pressure and torment that underlies the couplet. Classical Latin had so much capacity for structural complexity that is really remarkable. It's not just that you can say more stuff with less words, but that the allocation of information in the grammar allows for entirely different expressions than you could make if word order dictated meaning.
- haste410 3y ago> Each verb on the first line has a "mate" on the second. Can you clarify what a "mate" is? What determines a word's "mate"? The position on the line? Their meaning?
- viciousvoxel 3y ago
- nickspacek 3y agoThe ability to express thoughts more concisely in various languages is kind of sort of a plot point in the science fiction novel Babel-17 by Samuel R. Delany, published in 1966. Picked up a few of his novels to read and I've been enjoying them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babel-17 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babel-17
- ak_111 3y agoI think two words also in arabic : ودعتنا تكرار
- denton-scratch 3y agoThe original English is ungrammatical, or at least incomplete; it helps a bit if you start from grammatical English. So first alter it to "She HAD said goodbye too many times before". Then it's essier to translate correctly.
- wunderland 3y agoBoth “she said goodbye too many times before” and “she had said goodbye too many times before” are grammatically correct English. They have slightly different meanings.
- denton-scratch 3y agoAgreed; "she said goodbye too many times before" is grammatical. But it's temporally ambiguous. The sentence is reporting on a time in the past, a time when "her" utterances were even further in the past. I suggested rephrasing prior to translation, to clarify the tense of "said". As someone upthread noted, it's a song, so prosody is more important than grammar. But I think it's still an ugly construction. [Edit] I'm not sure what tense it is; I'm a native English speaker, and I don't think I was ever taught the grammar of my own language. I don't think it's past-perfect/pluperfect; that would be "she has said" (she has finished saying it). Wikipedia disagrees, but doesn't say what tense "she has said" is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluperfect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluperfect
- burkaman 3y agoThat would be the past perfect tense, a different tense with a different meaning that is only used in the context of another past event you're talking about. The original quote is simple past tense and is correct. You could also use the present perfect, "she has said goodbye too many times before", which sounds slightly better to me, but is again a different tense and implies the goodbye-saying is an ongoing phenomenon. If it's all in the past, this tense would be wrong.
- jackcosgrove 3y agoI wonder if the original question -asking if a popular song lyric could be translated into Latin - was asked because someone wants a tattoo of it. I know a Latin teacher and she gets several emails a year from strangers asking her to translate phrases into Latin because they want them in a tattoo.
- tuomosipola 3y agoWhen I was the president of the society of Latin students, I got several emails asking for tattoo translations. I hope I got them right.
- justinator 3y agoLet’s hope not- Maroon 5’s songwriting is not known to be… good.
- sandyarmstrong 3y agoThat was my first thought as well. Ah, to be young again!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- lr4444lr 3y agoPeople trusting the advice of a stranger over email to permanently etch their skin? What a world...
- resolutebat 3y agoIf you think Latin tattoos are bad, check out the kind of shit people get tattooed with in (what they think is) Chinese: https://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/ https://hanzismatter.blogspot.com/
- NooneAtAll3 3y agoI'd probably bet on Latin cover like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbEKIW3pUUk
- JTbane 3y agoMaroon V?
- da39a3ee 3y agoThe English starting point is very questionable. Is it trying to say "she had said goodbye too many times before"? In any case, this makes the exercise of translating questionable.
- leke 3y agoMy favourite part was - Saves valuable chisel time.
- bertil 3y agoA clear reference to 'lapidārius/um', an explicit quality of speakers, and meaning literally that.
- exitb 3y agoIs that a way an actual native speaker would phrase it, or is it just Latin golf that would sound out of place?
- hgsgm 3y agoThat's what the question is trying to figure out Actual native speakers are all dead. It's poetry, not conversational. The answers looked to poets.
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- penguin_booze 3y agoFor a change of scenery, here's your Latin 101: https://youtu.be/0lczHvB3Y9s https://youtu.be/0lczHvB3Y9s.
- fillipvt 3y agoIn Spanish this would look like "dijo adiós demasiado". Although unsure how to fit the "before" without being too literal.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago[flagged]
- VikingCoder 3y agoHow would you translate this into Latin? 10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" 20 GOTO 10 ... X SCRIBE "SALVE MUNDI" XX ITE X or something like that?
- eindiran 3y agoThat reminds me of this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lingua_abstrusa https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lingua_abstrusa
- schoen 3y agoYou might want the vocative of "world" (MUNDE) and the singular imperative of "go" (I). The latter is a bit easy to confuse with the Roman numeral for the number one, though!
- VikingCoder 3y agoSo...? X SCRIBE "SALVE MUNDE" XX I X
- schoen 3y agoThat looks plausible to me.
- phendrenad2 3y agoIf we're just trying to translate the literal meaning of this sentence from English to Latin, these are good answers. But I suspect that if we went back to ancient Rome and found someone experiencing the meaning behind these words (a guy talking about a girl who has said goodbye too many time, and he doesn't believe that it's going to be final this time either), the actual phrase he says may be completely different. Because while English speakers (specifically, American English speakers, or even more specifically wherever the songwriter is from, looks like it's Los Angeles) reach for this particular phrase to convey this meaning, this is very idiomatic when you think about it.
- murphyslaw 3y agoGiven that this is meant to be poetic it is likely that a Roman would have said it in Greek, which was considered a more "cultured" language than mere boorish Latin.
- digging 3y ago> the actual phrase he says may be completely different That's also true in English, in my experience. I've never heard someone express this phrase (or a variation) in conversation, but the sentiment is common. A typical phrasing in English would be more like "She always says she's done but she always comes back."
- viraptor 3y agoHa, I've never really listened in to the rest of the words and kinda assumed the meaning was "she left many people" with "too many" indicating loneliness. TIL
- NooneAtAll3 3y agoyep, I somehow came up with ageless being saying goodbye to friends over the centuries
- lampiaio 3y agoThe point you raise is one of the things most people -- professional translators, even -- get very, very wrong when translating (books, movie subtitles, game dialogue, you name it). "How do you say 'phrase' in [target language]?" is more often than not a much worse approach than "What would a native speaker of [target language] say if they found themselves in the same situation?".
- lr4444lr 3y agoEh... this is a really idiomatic expression in English. Maybe if you rummage Plautus or Terrence, perhaps even the epistolary corpus of Pliny or Cicero, you could chance upon something sentimentally accurate, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Grammatically accurate word for word reconstructions aren't really going to convey it.
- galangalalgol 3y agoIdiomatic enough that I, as a native speaker, didn't understand what was intended by the phrase outside of context.
- whimsicalism 3y agoAs a native english speaker, I feel like "She'd said goodbye too many times before" better conveys the meaning for me.
- jacksnipe 3y agoSure, but then it’s no longer the lyrics to a Maroon 5 song.
- digging 3y agoI always heard it as "She's said goodbye too many times before," but that was probably my mind filling in the gap. Also, I never heard the rest of the lyrics so I don't know if they're present or past tense.
- Karellen 3y agoSome instances of "had" can be elided without loss of meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_while_John_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_had_a_better_effect_on_the_teacher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_while_John_had_had_had_h... Kind of like that that can be similarly strange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_that_is_is_that_that_is_not_is_not_is_that_it_it_is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_that_is_is_that_that_is_n...
- whimsicalism 3y agoI'm not at all an expert on grammar, just know what sounds right to my ear. Can you more explicitly connect the 'had had' sentence to this example?
- Karellen 3y agoOK. The punctuated version is: > James, while John had had "had", had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher If you take the first clause: > James, while John had had "had" You could replace it with: > James, while John had "had" Similarly, most of the (non-quoted) instances of "had had" could be replaced with "had", keeping the meaning almost exactly the same. (edit: this is the point of the sentence. "had had" and "had" are almost equivalent, but the teacher happens to prefer "had had".) This is like the original, where "had said" can be contracted to "said" without loss of meaning, so > She had said goodbye too many times before is equivalent to: > She said goodbye too many times before
- uptownfunk 3y agoImagine if we had this much attention paid to other Classical languages.
- teleforce 3y agoFun facts, Grammar schools in the UK were originally schools created mainly to teach Latin grammar and currently there are 163 Grammar schools operating in the UK as academic oriented (or orientated per UK English grammar), secondary schools [1],[2]. You know that the language is hard when you have multitude of schools dedicated to teach its grammar. Latin has a reputation of a complex language with complicated grammar, and the OP kind of demonstrating this perception. Interestingly, based on School Standards and Framework Act 1998, no new maintained grammar schools can be opened [3]. [1] Grammar school: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school [2] List of grammar schools in England: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_Eng... [3] Grammar School Statistics: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01398/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01...
- jltsiren 3y agoLatin grammar is literally trivial, because it was a part of the trivium in traditional liberal arts education. You did not study the grammar in order to use the language but to understand the structure of it. You also studied logic to understand the structure of ideas and arguments, and rhetoric to communicate them. Then you proceeded to the quadrivium to study arithmetic, geometry, music theory, and astronomy.
- canjobear 3y agoUnderstanding Latin was absolutely the goal of grammar schools in the time when most written educated discourse happened in Latin.
- jltsiren 3y agoIt was, but that has nothing to do with name "grammar school". In the liberal arts tradition that goes back to the ancient Greece, you studied grammar, logic, and rhetoric to learn to think and argue properly. Those were considered prerequisites to learning anything real. Grammar was considered the most fundamental of the three, which is why it was taught in the lowest-level schools.
- jrflowers 3y ago“Maroon 5” delenda est
- jll29 3y agoNow "totiēns valedīxit" is quite a bit shorter than the English original. I was hoping our friends on StackExchange could have found a Latin equivalent that fits the number of syllables of the English version, or it won't help if the original translation request was motivated by an upcoming Latin karaoke... not that machine translation was any better. Dixit Google Translatum: Tam altus eram, non agnovi Ignis ardens in oculis eius Chaos gubernans mentem meam Vale quod illa surrexit in planum susurrabant Numquam iterum redi, sed semper in corde meo, heu Hic amor accepit portorium in me Dixit etiam multis temporibus ante vale Et cor eius breakin 'in conspectu oculorum meorum Et non optio 'Fac tibi non vale ultra dicere' Whoa? Whoa? Whoa? Conatus sum optimum appetitum pascere Serva eam omni nocte venire Tam difficile est ut ei satisfiat, oh Tenentur ludens amore sicut erat sicut ludus Simulans idem Deinde conversus et iterum discede, sed uh-oh Hic amor accepit portorium in me Dixit etiam multis temporibus ante vale Et cor eius breakin 'in conspectu oculorum meorum Et non optio 'Fac tibi non vale ultra dicere' Whoa? Whoa? Whoa? Fracta haec figam, alis fractis reparabo tuis Et fac omnia recte (saxum est, ita bene) Premuntur coxis tuis, ego digitos deprimo Omnis inch ex vobis Quia scio quod vis ut faciam Hic amor accepit portorium in me Dixit etiam multis temporibus ante vale Her breakin cor 'in conspectu oculorum meorum Et non optio 'Fac tibi non vale ultra dicere' Hic amor accepit portorium in me Dixit etiam multis temporibus ante vale Et cor meum est breakin 'in conspectu oculorum meorum Et illa etiam pluries ante vale dixit Hic amor accepit portorium in me Dixit etiam multis temporibus ante vale Et cor eius breakin 'in conspectu oculorum meorum Et non optio 'Fac tibi non vale ultra dicere' EDIT: this automatic translation has so many errors, my late Latin teacher must just have turned in his grave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPpTgCho5ZA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPpTgCho5ZA