8 ms·

Internet Explorer 11 has retired and is officially out of support

455 points by alexobenauer 4y ago

timeimp 4y ago
Does anyone work in an “enterprise” environment who have been dreading this day? Any apps / mainframes / industrials systems that needs IE to run?
- PaulWaldman 4y ago
  We frequently encounter legacy industrial automation applications that use IE inside an ActiveX container. There are a few third-party apps that attempt to bundle Chrome or Edge inside an ActiveX object, but we've had limited success.
- thetinguy 4y ago
  Yes I use some ancient version of sharepoint and the edit in word button only worked in IE.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- night-rider 4y ago
  If there are legacy systems that would be too expensive to tear down and modernise, then some form of regulatory fine should be implemented to stop this. There is no excuse for running IE anywhere these days, especially now after this news which puts the final nail in the coffin.
  - brutusborn 4y ago
    Are you joking? Why would you punish people for using old tech?
    - night-rider 4y ago
      It’s a liability. The problem with security measures is that there is no immediate reward, but a few years down the line and you get ransomware’d you would want to have replaced legacy systems with modernised software and hardware. You need to weigh the cost of modernisation versus getting embarrassingly pwned.
      - brutusborn 4y ago
        Ah I understand now. A fine is a bad idea since companies should be able to take risk freely as long as this risk isn't socialized. I don't get fined for leaving my door unlocked, because it is my prerogative whether I take that risk. If risky behaviour affects others, then fines would be appropriate (e.g. managing customer data)
- gertlex 4y ago
  HP Alm seemed to require IE where I work in the past 6 months. I told the person asking me to use HP Alm that I had no way of installing IE, with insinuations that the ask was BS. Probably outdated version or not a hard requirement...
- frumper 4y ago
  Edge has an IE mode
- izzydata 4y ago
  At my office we use this software called Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer. Apparently they made some kind of containerized IE launcher for it. I suppose that was easier than porting it to a modern browser.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    >Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer. That is so ironic. Love it.
- isp 4y ago
  All versions of Windows Server are (for now) unaffected, i.e., Internet Explorer 11 continues to run [1]. There is also "Internet Explorer Mode" in Edge, which uses iexplore.exe under the hood. Additionally, if somebody were _really_ desperate to launch iexplore.exe itself, then there are unsupported means to do so. For example, via manually modifying the registry key "NotifyDisableIEOptions" under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\ My favourite hack though, which should not be used by anyone ever, is launching via the COM object interface, which bypasses the registry key check [2]. I have personally verified that this works(!) [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/internet-explorer-11-desktop-app-retirement-faq/ba-p/2366549 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/i... [2] https://twitter.com/aaaddress1/status/1523590203658862592 https://twitter.com/aaaddress1/status/1523590203658862592
  - Jaruzel 4y ago
    If one is desperate, there is also the option of the classic Webview control in Visual Studio (or even the old VB6 version) which with little bit of UI added around it, can substitute for the real IE for certain enterprise legacy webapps. A bit more effort, can also lock the control to only browse to the intended web service, and launch the default browser for any external links. There's kind of a market for this type of solution in the legacy enterprise app space I think.
    - omnibrain 4y ago
      You can even use a registry key (per Application using the WebView control) to specify the function level/version to emulate.
    - Zardoz84 4y ago
      these WebView on VB6 isn't the IE6 engine ?
      - Jaruzel 4y ago
        No it's a wrapper around the installed version of IE. As a sibling comment stated, you use the registry to tell the WebView what version of IE you want to emulate (on a per app basis).
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  I used it to authenticate against some webdav intranet sites hosted on Sharepoint Online. Formerly on a SSO standard windows AD integrated system you needed to open internet explorer once. It did some arcane voodoo in the background you didn't need to do anything with it, just close it again. But if you did that you could connect to Sharepoint sites through the file explorer via webdav. This process needed to be repeated every other week when the arcane voodoo authentication needed to be refreshed.
  - brazzledazzle 4y ago
    Probably getting you a kerberos ticket (which would subsequently be available to other services like explorer). Hitting it with another browser (which need to be configured to use Kerberos) probably led to an NTLM auth in response to the Negotiate header. NTLM isn’t a global credential and doesn’t get a kerberos ticket.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      Both Firefox and Chrome can get the kerberos ticket themselves, but it is necessary to whitelist sites that can use spnego. For Firefox, the settings are separate for ntlm and spnego, so one can be disabled and the other whitelisted. Interestingly, Edge for Linux doesn't support spnego at all.
      - brazzledazzle 4y ago
        This is mostly true, however there’s a major caveat with chrome: your ticket can’t be too large. Too many group memberships and kerberos fails in chrome. The lack of support for spnego in edge for linux isn’t entirely surprising though I am curious what the excuse is.
- baud147258 4y ago
  the software I'm working on still supports IE, but after years of pushing for it, in 2020 management let us start work on supporting Chrome/Edge. Though we'll have to see how our automated testing suite will be impacted by those redirections (FTA: "opening Internet Explorer will progressively redirect users to Microsoft Edge with IE mode."), because we're still testing with IE, though that's also planned to be phased out this summer.
- AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
  I support an enterprise Java app that uses SWT, and some clients may still be using IE for the embedded i-frames, depending on their OS. But I think we have a way of overriding the registry and forcing the IE version, if it comes to that.
- daigoba66 4y ago
  FWIW I don’t think this changes anything, as those same usages often run on out-of-support versions of Windows too that are never updated. It usually doesn’t matter - if it works, then it works.
- electroly 4y ago
  We have one third party app that requires IE. I opened Visual Studio, dropped a WebBrowser control onto a form, and voila: I've got IE again, even on Windows 11. I pushed the app out and it works great. I figure we've got years until this breaks again.
- kemotep 4y ago
  I support an EMR running on AIX that is accessed through a Java Web applet that only works with Internet Explorer. Since you cannot install Java in any other modern browser, IE mode works on Windows 10 but not 11. The menus and setting you need to configure just do not exist in Edge and without the full Internet Options menu from IE, the site cannot load. The vendor allegedly has an update coming soon to allow other browsers to work.
  - smm11 4y ago
    The bigger deal here is that you have an AIX-based EMR in 2022.
- smm11 4y ago
  I need it to access my firewall. Yeah.
- ehPReth 4y ago
  not dreading it, but we do have a couple of older photocopiers (with no fw updates) that won't let us do things like add emails to the address book without IE
bombcar 4y ago
Internet Explorer was first released on August 16, 1995 - couldn't they have kept support for two more months!
DrBazza 4y ago
Having lived through the MS/IE6 era of being the monopoly web browser, and effectively determined and held back web standards for a long time, it's bittersweet that we now have Google/Chrome era. At least it's not hard wired into the OS and we're not going through another era of mega-corp hard wiring browsers into their OSes any more. Oh wait.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  Say what you will (I am a sole firefox user for a decade +), at least chrome keeps improving and having development. Now that the web is more of a "VM in a window for applications", it's _not_ like the IE era of no updates, buggy crap, un-debuggable, etc.
  - zaarn 4y ago
    No, instead it's a world of "works ~~best~~ only in Google Chrome" where other browser engines have no chance to claw back marketshare.
  - leeter 4y ago
    Yes and no, Chrome does what's good for google with no regard for most of the rest. To make it worse google goes out of their way to break compatibility with other browsers when it comes to their stuff. It's really no different and in many ways just as bad. The only major difference is google's incentives do align with innovation for web; insofar as it furthers advertising revenue for google. https://www.developer-tech.com/news/2019/apr/17/mozilla-google-firefox-boost-chrome/ https://www.developer-tech.com/news/2019/apr/17/mozilla-goog...
    - calvinmorrison 4y ago
      I don't really care if there is only one implementation of Java, or if there is one implementation of "Web". It's all VMs to me.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
effnorwood 4y ago
2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
I thought the Xbox 360 version of IE11 was supported until the Xbox 360 goes EOL? Not that it's actually usable on today's web or anything...
philliphaydon 4y ago
Celebrate good times!
brainyz 4y ago
RIH
night-rider 4y ago
As the old meme goes: Internet Explorer was the first step to downloading Chrome or Firefox on a new computer.
- binbag 4y ago
  Only after they were released. Many users used IE daily. It was fine until we had better options.
- some-guy 4y ago
  The large enterprise outfit I work for has 8% IE11 usage still, almost all of which is in Korea. Our customers there go out of their way to not use Edge on their machines.
  - kriro 4y ago
    The question is why? I want to put on my tin foil hat and speculate about Korean knowledge of Edge 0-days (maybe North Korea is known to hoard those for some reason) but then again if you have edge 0-days it's probably trivial to get IE11 ones.
    - Mixtape 4y ago
      The answer is that a lot of companies and services in Korea require ActiveX, thereby making IE the de facto option for a majority of their users. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_compatibility_issues_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_compatibility_issues_in_...
wolframhempel 4y ago
I started my career 2008 building real estate and stock news websites. Back then, sooooo much of my days were spent making things "IE compatible" using techniques like: - creating sprite sheets of transparent png corners and sides that one could arrange in a table around an element to create drop-shadows and rounded corners - putting single pixel, transparent gifs at the end of floated containers because clearfix used a "before" CSS selector that earlier IEs didn't know about. - writing CSS rules like -ms-filter: "progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(Opacity=75)"; to make something semi-transparent... And so much more. Back then, we were certain we'd open a bottle of champagne once IE is not a requirement anymore. Today, fortunately, I have a different Job and Microsoft makes different browsers. But looking back, I wouldn't have believed this day to arrive.
- skittleson 4y ago
  I remembered these days as well. There wasn't a lot of resources out their either. Getting everything pixel perfect was the goal. HTML emails were extra tricky since they displayed differently in each client.
  - z3t4 4y ago
    Pixel perfect existed in an era where almost everyone had 800x600 screens. Today it's about adapting to many different screen sizes and devices. So when people say pixel perfect today they're 20+ years too late. :P
- space_ghost 4y ago
  I strongly remember using Firebug in Firefox (mind-blowing tools, for the time) in ~2008 and having to debug issues in IE, which had the equivalent of a Check Engine Light for debugging.
  - samwillis 4y ago
    So true, debugging with alert()… There was Firebug Light, which from memory was a bookmarklet that injected a cut down firebug into the page, but even that didn’t help much.
upupandup 4y ago
Huzzah! The tyrant is no more!
konfusinomicon 4y ago
im speculating that in a wild twist of events, MS announces the revival of Netscape Navigator, just to keep all the web developers on their toes and make sure they get enough practice working with cross browser compatability
- dekerta 4y ago
  No need. Safari fills that role for us now
  - ecshafer 4y ago
    Wouldn't that be Chrome? Internet Explorer had dominant market share, non-standardized features, and powerful corporate backing. Chrome has dominant market share, non-standardized features, and powerful corporate backing. Safari doesn't have the newest standards always, but mostly sticks to the standards from what I know. The major difference seems to be a lot of devs liking Chrome.
    - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
      Chrome and Safari each took half of the ways that IE was terrible. Chrome got the non-standard extensions and dominant market-share. Safari got deliberately lagging behind standards and trying to hold back the web so that people have to build native apps.
    - asddubs 4y ago
      They both have some parallels to IE in their own ways. Chrome for the reasons you mentioned, safari because: -Coupled to OS updates, meaning that people on older versions of the OS will also have an older browser, with worse standards support (thankfully apples upgrade policies aren't as bad as android manufacturers, or this would be way worse) -lagging behind on standard features with less frequent, big updates that still often end up missing crucial things (my prime example is how long it took them to support webp, which they thankfully finally support now, but there's plenty of others)
neatze 4y ago
Windows Server should be retired next, arguably, if MS would focus on making UI and Dev tools for Linux instead of Windows and nothing else, it will be better off.
- geraldcombs 4y ago
  Windows Server provides a cleaner, more enjoyable desktop experience that the desktop version.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Have you seen Microsoft's latest work on UIs? They're less responsive, less readable, less discoverable, and less functional than anything that came out of the IE era. Not that GNOME is any better, suffering as it does from the same tabletitis disease that has infected today's UI designers.
ricardobayes 4y ago
A red letter day for us web devs. A collective sigh of relief.
throwaway71271 4y ago
sad day, the day that we have one less web browser only webkit is left the king is dead, long live the king.
- hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
  what about Gecko?
  - throwaway71271 4y ago
    I think that Gecko is more dead than IE 11, 3% of people use it, versus 0.3% using IE11, but those Gecko people will move to chrome, while the 0.3% people using IE11 will never move due to enterprise reasons.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    When Microsoft decided to cede the browser to Chrome with Edge it was clear they don't believe a browser to be an important part of their current strategy. If they had wanted to stop IE but keep competing they would have made Edge a Gecko-based browser and worked on it.
err4nt 4y ago
Being in web development since 2004, I both thought the day would never arrive, and would have arrived a lot sooner than 2022. Tech-wise, there were times when IE was advanced, often in non-standard ways, but it was innovative. There are other ways where it was a major thorn in the side of every web developer and required much extra attention and care. And yet, since about 2014 or 2015, the world of web standards had caught up to and surpassed IE in every area. So here's to a surprisingly bittersweet farewell
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Back in the early 2010's, one of our more amusing interview questions for front-end developers was "What is your favorite thing about Internet Explorer?". We never really used the answer against anyone if they couldn't think of anything, but the advent of XHR and other improvements offered was something a lot of developers had already forgotten about, and it was interesting to see various responses and reactions.
logifail 4y ago
Q: What about the Internet Explorer versions that shipped in the Windows 10 LTSC[0], most (all?) of which are very much still "in support"[1]? [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#what-are-the-requirements-for-servicing-and-updating-the-windows-10-long-term-servicing-channel https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#what-...
- currysausage 4y ago
  Ctrl+F is your friend: "For certain versions of Windows currently in-support and used in critical environments, we will continue to support Internet Explorer on those versions until they go out of support. These include all currently in-support Windows 10 LTSC releases (including IoT) and all Windows Server versions, as well as Windows 10 China Government Edition, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 with Extended Security Updates (ESUs). Future versions of these editions will not include Internet Explorer."
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Windows 10 China Government Edition https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/05/23/announcing-windows-10-china-government-edition-new-surface-pro/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/05/23/annou...: > The Windows 10 China Government Edition is based on Windows 10 Enterprise Edition, which already includes many of the security, identity, deployment, and manageability features governments and enterprises need. The China Government Edition will use these manageability features to remove features that are not needed by Chinese government employees like OneDrive, to manage all telemetry and updates, and to enable the government to use its own encryption algorithms within its computer systems.
    - kingcharles 4y ago
      LOL. That's the first time I've heard of that. I thought I had access to all Windows 10 versions, but that one's not on my access list. Includes its own special encryption algorithms. Oh boy!
philliphaydon 4y ago
First time I ever wanted to embed an image into a HN comment. This image is so fitting! https://i.imgur.com/MgGvQHH.png https://i.imgur.com/MgGvQHH.png
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  And for more IE-related humor, I recommend the following webcomic: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/internet-explorer/list?title_no=219164&page=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/internet-explorer/list...
  - nazgulsenpai 4y ago
    I clicked to laugh at a meme for a second and ended up reading an intriguing action packed drama about anthropomorphized web tech. This is awesome! Thanks for sharing :)
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Happy to see that HN is enjoying my recommendation :D I actually just discovered the same comic also has a voice-over: https://youtu.be/8rygV_MeudA https://youtu.be/8rygV_MeudA
- john567 4y ago
  This is so fitting because even if Microsoft is deprecating and giving up on this monstrosity the executable is still sitting there. Serving legacy web apps that should have been abandoned a long time ago...
  - MrStonedOne 4y ago
- user_7832 4y ago
  I was not sure what that would be, but it got a solid chuckle out of me, thanks for lifting my mood!
open-paren 4y ago
I argue that moving it “out of support” doesn't mean anything for what browsers you have to support. Users and businesses still using IE11 aren't exactly those that are on the top of their IT policy game, so I doubt they will be jumping when the browser is “no longer supported by Microsoft.”
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  A couple of weeks back and edge update forced many many many users to Edge earlier than expected, if your tried to launch iexplorer.exe it would go to edge instead IEMode in Edge also works very well So if these companies are getting windows updates at all, or edge updates at all is somewhat not optional
  - yamazakiwi 4y ago
    I have a friend who works for a VA Hospital and they've switched as of yesterday. So we know the DOD/VA is at least switching off old IE8/IE10 Apps. The funny part is the app they use still works, you're just forced to run it in compatibility mode on Edge (Holy, I forgot this existed) but their user profiles have limited access so they can't right-click, properties, unless they have admin priv. New browser, same old 2009 problems. Obviously this is not the browsers fault, it's just insane to hear about shops like this that still hold on to legacy apps FOREVER.
    - Sunspark 4y ago
      A big reason for why this is in my opinion, is not that they don't want to get an update, it's because of corporate politics. Someone has to be the manager that goes "boss, I want to spend money and resources to update an essential service and doing so will increase security and productivity." What is heard "<underling> boss, I want to spend money". Bosses never want to spend a cent, because of the "shareholders". They also don't want to say "yes" to something because if there is an issue, it is then their fault even if it was worth doing. They would rather kick the can down the road until the wheels come flying off the car. This is why nothing ever gets updated.
lemoncookiechip 4y ago
From a previous thread (lost link): "For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." The King is dead, long live the King.
mwcampbell 4y ago
Does anyone know when the forced redirect from IE to Edge actually lands, particularly in Windows 10? In particular, does anyone know when it will affect users that open IE by entering "iexplore URL" in the Run dialog? Is anyone seeing this behavior yet? I'm not.
sbf501 4y ago
Many countries that access my company site still use some version of IE (France and Japan come to mind). But they are still on Win7 too.
layer8 4y ago
I’ve still been using IE11 up to now by default (for the websites it still renders adequately, with Firefox as a fallback — there’s a “Open current page in Firefox” add-in), for the following reasons: - crisper and higher-contrast font rendering on low-DPI monitors - Ctrl+N/Ctrl+K clone the current tab into a new window/tab including its history, letting you “fork” the tab and effectively navigate a history tree. Edit: And, maybe more importantly, opening a link in new window/tab also clones the history. - generally good keyboard usage, e.g. for the history tab (you can for example always blindly hit Ctrl+H, Home, Enter to go to the last visited page, something which is more fiddly in other browsers) - larger viewport height than possible on Chrome/Firefox/Edge (after hiding the toolbar and status bar, configuring tabs to be on the address bar, etc.) - allows yellow search highlighting (which Firefox doesn’t on light backgrounds)
- Liquid_Fire 4y ago
  > - Ctrl+N/Ctrl+K clone the current tab into a new window/tab including its history, letting you “fork” the tab and effectively navigate a history tree. You can do this in Firefox by middle (or Control) clicking the Reload button.
  - mister_tee 4y ago
    In Chrome those mouse actions work as well, or right-clicking a tab and selecting "Duplicate." I'm not sure if there's a keyboard command for it.
  - layer8 4y ago
    Unfortunately there is no keyboard shortcut, and no option to open it in a new window (which is what I usually want). Also, what I initially forgot to mention, opening a link in new window/tab in IE also clones the history.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wonderbore 4y ago
  You are now banned from Hacker News.
charles_f 4y ago
I didn't realize that it was still alive, and that some devs were still maintaining it. I am wondering if there were still apps out there in the corp world that would only work with ie11, even if just for blocking other agents.
xutopia 4y ago
So much effort from Microsoft to take over the web. They spent so much money and time on hurting all other browsers and web standards and for what?
- wonderbore 4y ago
  Money?
tiborsaas 4y ago
If you have some time between two cocktails while celebrating, do your visitors a favour and add this meta tag to your <head>: <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1"> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-iedoco/380e2488-f5eb-4457-a07a-0cb1b6e4b4b5 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-i... This will make IE very insisting to upgrade to Edge if possible.
- simongray 4y ago
  Thank you for that tip.
- electroly 4y ago
  That's not what that is. "Edge" there doesn't mean Edge the browser, it means "latest"; it predates the Edge browser by many years. It has nothing to do with the Edge upgrade. It switches IE into the latest document mode that it supports. For IE11, it just puts it into IE11 mode.
- Mathnerd314 4y ago
  "Google Chrome Frame was discontinued in January 2014" https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22059060/is-it-still-valid-to-use-ie-edge-chrome-1 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22059060/is-it-still-val...
psim1 4y ago
IE may have been problematic from a tech point of view, but I'll eulogize that IE was important in advancing the web. The OS-integrated browser meant that in 1995, users had a full Internet stack readily available on their home PCs -- the widespread launch of Web 1.0. Later, IE was the pioneer of XMLHttpRequest, the beginning of Web 2.0. For these, we can say thanks, Microsoft! (for everything else, see other comments)
- warning26 4y ago
  People often forget that in the IE4 days, IE was leagues beyond Netscape. It had far better CSS and JS support, and you could do things that wouldn't be possible in Netscape for years. That said, it all came to an end after Microsoft "won" and disbanded the IE dev team, resulting in that era of stagnation we all remember.
- anthk 4y ago
  > users had a full Internet stack readily available on their home PCs No.
maxpert 4y ago
// One last time remembering IE6 var request = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP");
- asddubs 4y ago
  and to dress for the occasion: * html { _background:black !ie; }
wonderbore 4y ago
Is this Groundhog Day? How many more times will IE be declared dead? Official support is irrelevant if the browser is still stubbornly used by users. Most websites have moved on more than 5 years ago. This news is meaningless. This confirms it: > For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed. From https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/internet-explorer-microsoft-edge#is-internet-explorer-11-the-last-version-of-internet-explorer- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/internet-expl...
- oaiey 4y ago
  In conservative IT businesses like hospitals this date is a deal breaker: No more security updates. In consequence IT will switch it off immediately. Guess why edge has an IE Mode.
  - yread 4y ago
    That's not what conservative means. My conservative hospital client recently downgraded to Windows 7! If you pay MS enough you get security updates no problem. Not to mention that even the less conservative are probably on Windows 10 LTSC where IE11 will keep running
    - wonderbore 4y ago
      Microsoft made the mistake of letting users keep IE11 next to Edge. Egregious. Having a IE mode for whitelisted websites would have killed IE11 on public internet a long time ago. “Website broken? Click here to try IE11 mode.” But no, IE is still on the desktop and people will use it for both intranet and internet
- snarkyturtle 4y ago
  There are two things that differentiate this from other announcements: They're disabling certain versions of IE and redirecting users to Edge [1] and the global usage of IE is far, far, lower than it was even a couple of years ago. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/15/microsoft-to-retire-internet-explorer-browser-and-redirect-users-to-edge https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/15/microsoft...
kazinator 4y ago
I found IE11 pretty useful recently. I made to the web UI of a firmware device, and needed to check whether it will work with old browsers as far back as IE9. Because IE11 has an emulation mode, I didn't have to install IE9. Thank you, IE11! :)
- asddubs 4y ago
  yeesh, ie9, my condolences.
intrasight 4y ago
I started doing web development back in Netscape - adding graphics extensions. I think it was 1995. But I really dug into SPA/AJAX web apps in 2000 - building enterprise stuff. They were all "IE6 apps". IE6 was basically my X-windows. No other browsers were supported, and there as no pushback from customers back then. Only one of those apps made the transition to IE11. Last year I explained to my current client that our big enterprise reporting app had to move off IE11. And I was really surprised how much pushback on got on that.
aquova 4y ago
Slightly tangential, but does this mean that Wine prefixes will no longer need to include Internet Explorer? If you ever go digging through a Wine prefix's Program Files, there are a handful of default Windows applications, including IE and Windows Media Player. I've never been really sure why my Steam library is filled with a dozen copies of IE, but I'm curious if they will still be added.
- netr0ute 4y ago
  Ironically, Wine has better support for older programs than Windows itself. Therefore, why would they remove backwards compat and get rid of a major selling point?
- iggldiggl 4y ago
  Well, there's Internet Explorer as the complete browser, but there's also the rendering engine behind it that's still needed to power the web browser controls used by all sorts of applications. If I'm understanding things right by default Wine emulates it using Gecko, but you can still install the original Microsoft DLLs for maximum compatibility. Likewise on Windows itself, Microsoft will have to continue shipping IE's rendering engine for backwards compatibility with all those programs using the old web view control (as well as Edge's hidden IE11-mode).
jrochkind1 4y ago
MOSTLY. > Windows releases where Internet Explorer will still be available after June 15, 2022, include Windows 7 ESU, Windows 8.1, and all versions of Windows 10 LTSC client, IoT, and Server. > "The Internet Explorer (IE) 11 desktop application will end support for Windows 10 semi-annual channel starting June 15, 2022," Microsoft says on the IE11 lifecycle page. > As Microsoft further explains, "for supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/internet-explorer-almost-breathes-its-final-byte-on-wednesday/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/internet-exp... I gotta say... MS is serious about long-term support commitments and backwards compat!
- Sunspark 4y ago
  I've never quite understood this MS policy of "ending support" but continuing support anyway for extended support contract customers or for specific versions, etc. The way I look at it, MS obviously is actually continuing to support the product, they are just choosing not to make it available to most people. It's still supported, just not for everyone. I feel that if security patches are still being produced, they should be released as opposed to expecting people to use nothing, or roll their own by getting patches from a third party. They could be released as "donations" to the public good from the big customers.
  - krylon 4y ago
    As I recall (vaguely) Microsoft did release a few security fixes for Windows XP and Windows 7 after their respective ends-of-lives on a case-by-case basis when the security issue was especially bad. I am by no means a fan of Microsoft's, but when you release an OS and some applications and provide security fixes for ten years, asking for people who want to continue using that OS/app beyond that point to buy a support contract is not a complete dick move. In the FLOSS world, you may get volunteers who maintain a piece of software as a labor of love, but with something like Windows or IE, someone needs to pay people to do that work. It might make sense to create something like a foundation to take care of the long term support for software, which would benefit everyone. I'm kind of surprised actually that this has not happened, yet (to my knowledge, at least).
user_7832 4y ago
I posted this as a reply to a comment here but I felt it would be better to ask as a separate comment - Does anyone (especially from MS) know why later versions of IE and pre-chromium Edge were so good and snappy with scrolling? The level of accuracy and speed was incredible (on touchpads at least) - it was probably the last time I had an interaction on a computer that made me go "wow".
- kiririn 4y ago
  I agree the input lag and scroll curves in later IE was some of the best I’ve seen. Firefox was as good for a time but is now (slightly) worse after changing to a more chrome-like curve They really went all out on input lag reduction for Windows 8 touch interfaces. I remember some videos from the time where they showed off such low input lag that scrolling and drawing almost perfectly tracked finger movement. Perhaps not so impressive today with iOS as a benchmark, but Windows is still king for desktop input lag
Mattmrmatt 4y ago
Bye bye IE and thank you!
geniium 4y ago
kthxbye
pavlov 4y ago
There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far. Netscape 4 was unstable and had completely botched all the fancy new features: its implementation of CSS (brand new at the time) was so bad that even font sizes didn't work right, its homegrown "layers" API for JavaScript DOM access was awful, and many web developers were wishing they could somehow get away with only supporting IE. 25 years after the release of IE4, I'm just glad both of those browser codebases are now dead. IE was really done in by Microsoft's "Longhorn" OS project. After Windows XP, Microsoft was planning a very ambitious update that would completely reset core APIs. File systems would be largely replaced by an OS-level database, and the Win32 GUI API would be replaced by an XML-based UI framework codenamed Avalon. A new Avalon browser would ship with the OS, and thus IE + HTML would become legacy technologies as Microsoft confidently assumed most developers would flock to building their web apps in Avalon instead. To Microsoft strategists, it seemed that they had succeeded in containing the web: Netscape was dead, Mozilla had almost no users, Apple was shipping their IE in Mac OS X, Google wasn't on Microsoft's radar, and the HTML standard process was stalled. So while a lot of content was being delivered as HTML4, there didn't seem to be any reason left for Microsoft to invest in IE — they'd already nailed the browser, owned the market, and would push Avalon as the next step. Fortunately, Longhorn failed. Some parts of the project eventually shipped years late as Windows Vista. Avalon became WPF + XAML and still exists in Windows, but the dream of a XAML browser replacing IE was dead.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far Only as a preview for web 3. Netscape, even when crashing, was faster and more user friendly. Error messages in IE were surrealistic. Unfortunately those are today standard in todays browsers.
- Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
  > There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far. Especially the Mac version of IE 5. Tasman was such a breath of fresh air. I never understood why they didn't use that engine everywhere.
pmarreck 4y ago
RIP, and good riddance
kasajian 4y ago
That's awesome. But what happens if you double-click on an .hta file?
hidden-spyder 4y ago
Why is IE still in use and what's stopping people from switching over to something new?
Agamus 4y ago
I am eternally grateful to IE for shoving me early and squarely to the Linux/FOSS side. Thank you, IE - and good riddance!
Spooky23 4y ago
…on Windows 10. It’s still a thing on server.
suff 4y ago
101008 4y ago
I'd take any day the old internet with IE than our current internet with current browsers.
caycep 4y ago
Except it's still required to run HIPAA-sensitive EHR's like Allscripts. facepalm (note, they say they are compatible with Edge etc. But sadly they are really not)
ChrisArchitect 4y ago
Seeing a timeline animation of browser share made me both nostalgic about the browser wars days and how IE took over after (and for a time was the best), and also sad about what happened to Firefox, which was so exciting in those early days becoming very much a standard but falling to the wayside as Chrome snuck up. It's just sad where it ended up today as an also ran for some/holdout for others (I still insist my parents use it etc) with difficult marketing and who knows what level of development behind the scenes. Sigh.
major505 4y ago
Nice. Now I only have to support it for 11 more years because my stubborn clients will continue to use explorer in windows 7.
newbieuser 4y ago
Would the web have been a different place if IE had gone a different way instead of its current bullshit? I mean, I wonder what effect this would have on the current state of the web if it complied with general standards.
lindamer 4y ago

455 points by alexobenauer 4y ago

Does anyone work in an “enterprise” environment who have been dreading this day? Any apps / mainframes / industrials systems that needs IE to run?

PaulWaldman 4y ago
We frequently encounter legacy industrial automation applications that use IE inside an ActiveX container. There are a few third-party apps that attempt to bundle Chrome or Edge inside an ActiveX object, but we've had limited success.
thetinguy 4y ago
Yes I use some ancient version of sharepoint and the edit in word button only worked in IE.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
night-rider 4y ago
If there are legacy systems that would be too expensive to tear down and modernise, then some form of regulatory fine should be implemented to stop this. There is no excuse for running IE anywhere these days, especially now after this news which puts the final nail in the coffin.
- brutusborn 4y ago
  Are you joking? Why would you punish people for using old tech?
  - night-rider 4y ago
    It’s a liability. The problem with security measures is that there is no immediate reward, but a few years down the line and you get ransomware’d you would want to have replaced legacy systems with modernised software and hardware. You need to weigh the cost of modernisation versus getting embarrassingly pwned.
    - brutusborn 4y ago
      Ah I understand now. A fine is a bad idea since companies should be able to take risk freely as long as this risk isn't socialized. I don't get fined for leaving my door unlocked, because it is my prerogative whether I take that risk. If risky behaviour affects others, then fines would be appropriate (e.g. managing customer data)
gertlex 4y ago
HP Alm seemed to require IE where I work in the past 6 months. I told the person asking me to use HP Alm that I had no way of installing IE, with insinuations that the ask was BS. Probably outdated version or not a hard requirement...
frumper 4y ago
Edge has an IE mode
izzydata 4y ago
At my office we use this software called Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer. Apparently they made some kind of containerized IE launcher for it. I suppose that was easier than porting it to a modern browser.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  >Application Lifecycle Management that still requires Internet Explorer. That is so ironic. Love it.
isp 4y ago
All versions of Windows Server are (for now) unaffected, i.e., Internet Explorer 11 continues to run [1]. There is also "Internet Explorer Mode" in Edge, which uses iexplore.exe under the hood. Additionally, if somebody were _really_ desperate to launch iexplore.exe itself, then there are unsupported means to do so. For example, via manually modifying the registry key "NotifyDisableIEOptions" under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\ My favourite hack though, which should not be used by anyone ever, is launching via the COM object interface, which bypasses the registry key check [2]. I have personally verified that this works(!) [1] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/internet-explorer-11-desktop-app-retirement-faq/ba-p/2366549 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/i... [2] https://twitter.com/aaaddress1/status/1523590203658862592 https://twitter.com/aaaddress1/status/1523590203658862592
- Jaruzel 4y ago
  If one is desperate, there is also the option of the classic Webview control in Visual Studio (or even the old VB6 version) which with little bit of UI added around it, can substitute for the real IE for certain enterprise legacy webapps. A bit more effort, can also lock the control to only browse to the intended web service, and launch the default browser for any external links. There's kind of a market for this type of solution in the legacy enterprise app space I think.
  - omnibrain 4y ago
    You can even use a registry key (per Application using the WebView control) to specify the function level/version to emulate.
  - Zardoz84 4y ago
    these WebView on VB6 isn't the IE6 engine ?
    - Jaruzel 4y ago
      No it's a wrapper around the installed version of IE. As a sibling comment stated, you use the registry to tell the WebView what version of IE you want to emulate (on a per app basis).
raxxorraxor 4y ago
I used it to authenticate against some webdav intranet sites hosted on Sharepoint Online. Formerly on a SSO standard windows AD integrated system you needed to open internet explorer once. It did some arcane voodoo in the background you didn't need to do anything with it, just close it again. But if you did that you could connect to Sharepoint sites through the file explorer via webdav. This process needed to be repeated every other week when the arcane voodoo authentication needed to be refreshed.
- brazzledazzle 4y ago
  Probably getting you a kerberos ticket (which would subsequently be available to other services like explorer). Hitting it with another browser (which need to be configured to use Kerberos) probably led to an NTLM auth in response to the Negotiate header. NTLM isn’t a global credential and doesn’t get a kerberos ticket.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Both Firefox and Chrome can get the kerberos ticket themselves, but it is necessary to whitelist sites that can use spnego. For Firefox, the settings are separate for ntlm and spnego, so one can be disabled and the other whitelisted. Interestingly, Edge for Linux doesn't support spnego at all.
    - brazzledazzle 4y ago
      This is mostly true, however there’s a major caveat with chrome: your ticket can’t be too large. Too many group memberships and kerberos fails in chrome. The lack of support for spnego in edge for linux isn’t entirely surprising though I am curious what the excuse is.
baud147258 4y ago
the software I'm working on still supports IE, but after years of pushing for it, in 2020 management let us start work on supporting Chrome/Edge. Though we'll have to see how our automated testing suite will be impacted by those redirections (FTA: "opening Internet Explorer will progressively redirect users to Microsoft Edge with IE mode."), because we're still testing with IE, though that's also planned to be phased out this summer.
AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
I support an enterprise Java app that uses SWT, and some clients may still be using IE for the embedded i-frames, depending on their OS. But I think we have a way of overriding the registry and forcing the IE version, if it comes to that.
daigoba66 4y ago
FWIW I don’t think this changes anything, as those same usages often run on out-of-support versions of Windows too that are never updated. It usually doesn’t matter - if it works, then it works.
electroly 4y ago
We have one third party app that requires IE. I opened Visual Studio, dropped a WebBrowser control onto a form, and voila: I've got IE again, even on Windows 11. I pushed the app out and it works great. I figure we've got years until this breaks again.
kemotep 4y ago
I support an EMR running on AIX that is accessed through a Java Web applet that only works with Internet Explorer. Since you cannot install Java in any other modern browser, IE mode works on Windows 10 but not 11. The menus and setting you need to configure just do not exist in Edge and without the full Internet Options menu from IE, the site cannot load. The vendor allegedly has an update coming soon to allow other browsers to work.
- smm11 4y ago
  The bigger deal here is that you have an AIX-based EMR in 2022.
smm11 4y ago
I need it to access my firewall. Yeah.
ehPReth 4y ago
not dreading it, but we do have a couple of older photocopiers (with no fw updates) that won't let us do things like add emails to the address book without IE

bombcar 4y ago

Internet Explorer was first released on August 16, 1995 - couldn't they have kept support for two more months!

DrBazza 4y ago

Having lived through the MS/IE6 era of being the monopoly web browser, and effectively determined and held back web standards for a long time, it's bittersweet that we now have Google/Chrome era. At least it's not hard wired into the OS and we're not going through another era of mega-corp hard wiring browsers into their OSes any more. Oh wait.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
Say what you will (I am a sole firefox user for a decade +), at least chrome keeps improving and having development. Now that the web is more of a "VM in a window for applications", it's _not_ like the IE era of no updates, buggy crap, un-debuggable, etc.
- zaarn 4y ago
  No, instead it's a world of "works ~~best~~ only in Google Chrome" where other browser engines have no chance to claw back marketshare.
- leeter 4y ago
  Yes and no, Chrome does what's good for google with no regard for most of the rest. To make it worse google goes out of their way to break compatibility with other browsers when it comes to their stuff. It's really no different and in many ways just as bad. The only major difference is google's incentives do align with innovation for web; insofar as it furthers advertising revenue for google. https://www.developer-tech.com/news/2019/apr/17/mozilla-google-firefox-boost-chrome/ https://www.developer-tech.com/news/2019/apr/17/mozilla-goog...
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    I don't really care if there is only one implementation of Java, or if there is one implementation of "Web". It's all VMs to me.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

effnorwood 4y ago

2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago

I thought the Xbox 360 version of IE11 was supported until the Xbox 360 goes EOL? Not that it's actually usable on today's web or anything...

philliphaydon 4y ago

Celebrate good times!

brainyz 4y ago

RIH

night-rider 4y ago

As the old meme goes: Internet Explorer was the first step to downloading Chrome or Firefox on a new computer.

binbag 4y ago
Only after they were released. Many users used IE daily. It was fine until we had better options.
some-guy 4y ago
The large enterprise outfit I work for has 8% IE11 usage still, almost all of which is in Korea. Our customers there go out of their way to not use Edge on their machines.
- kriro 4y ago
  The question is why? I want to put on my tin foil hat and speculate about Korean knowledge of Edge 0-days (maybe North Korea is known to hoard those for some reason) but then again if you have edge 0-days it's probably trivial to get IE11 ones.
  - Mixtape 4y ago
    The answer is that a lot of companies and services in Korea require ActiveX, thereby making IE the de facto option for a majority of their users. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_compatibility_issues_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_compatibility_issues_in_...

wolframhempel 4y ago

I started my career 2008 building real estate and stock news websites. Back then, sooooo much of my days were spent making things "IE compatible" using techniques like: - creating sprite sheets of transparent png corners and sides that one could arrange in a table around an element to create drop-shadows and rounded corners - putting single pixel, transparent gifs at the end of floated containers because clearfix used a "before" CSS selector that earlier IEs didn't know about. - writing CSS rules like -ms-filter: "progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Alpha(Opacity=75)"; to make something semi-transparent... And so much more. Back then, we were certain we'd open a bottle of champagne once IE is not a requirement anymore. Today, fortunately, I have a different Job and Microsoft makes different browsers. But looking back, I wouldn't have believed this day to arrive.

skittleson 4y ago
I remembered these days as well. There wasn't a lot of resources out their either. Getting everything pixel perfect was the goal. HTML emails were extra tricky since they displayed differently in each client.
- z3t4 4y ago
  Pixel perfect existed in an era where almost everyone had 800x600 screens. Today it's about adapting to many different screen sizes and devices. So when people say pixel perfect today they're 20+ years too late. :P
space_ghost 4y ago
I strongly remember using Firebug in Firefox (mind-blowing tools, for the time) in ~2008 and having to debug issues in IE, which had the equivalent of a Check Engine Light for debugging.
- samwillis 4y ago
  So true, debugging with alert()… There was Firebug Light, which from memory was a bookmarklet that injected a cut down firebug into the page, but even that didn’t help much.

upupandup 4y ago

Huzzah! The tyrant is no more!

konfusinomicon 4y ago

im speculating that in a wild twist of events, MS announces the revival of Netscape Navigator, just to keep all the web developers on their toes and make sure they get enough practice working with cross browser compatability

dekerta 4y ago
No need. Safari fills that role for us now
- ecshafer 4y ago
  Wouldn't that be Chrome? Internet Explorer had dominant market share, non-standardized features, and powerful corporate backing. Chrome has dominant market share, non-standardized features, and powerful corporate backing. Safari doesn't have the newest standards always, but mostly sticks to the standards from what I know. The major difference seems to be a lot of devs liking Chrome.
  - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
    Chrome and Safari each took half of the ways that IE was terrible. Chrome got the non-standard extensions and dominant market-share. Safari got deliberately lagging behind standards and trying to hold back the web so that people have to build native apps.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    They both have some parallels to IE in their own ways. Chrome for the reasons you mentioned, safari because: -Coupled to OS updates, meaning that people on older versions of the OS will also have an older browser, with worse standards support (thankfully apples upgrade policies aren't as bad as android manufacturers, or this would be way worse) -lagging behind on standard features with less frequent, big updates that still often end up missing crucial things (my prime example is how long it took them to support webp, which they thankfully finally support now, but there's plenty of others)

neatze 4y ago

Windows Server should be retired next, arguably, if MS would focus on making UI and Dev tools for Linux instead of Windows and nothing else, it will be better off.

geraldcombs 4y ago
Windows Server provides a cleaner, more enjoyable desktop experience that the desktop version.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Have you seen Microsoft's latest work on UIs? They're less responsive, less readable, less discoverable, and less functional than anything that came out of the IE era. Not that GNOME is any better, suffering as it does from the same tabletitis disease that has infected today's UI designers.

ricardobayes 4y ago

A red letter day for us web devs. A collective sigh of relief.

throwaway71271 4y ago

sad day, the day that we have one less web browser only webkit is left the king is dead, long live the king.

hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
what about Gecko?
- throwaway71271 4y ago
  I think that Gecko is more dead than IE 11, 3% of people use it, versus 0.3% using IE11, but those Gecko people will move to chrome, while the 0.3% people using IE11 will never move due to enterprise reasons.
- bombcar 4y ago
  When Microsoft decided to cede the browser to Chrome with Edge it was clear they don't believe a browser to be an important part of their current strategy. If they had wanted to stop IE but keep competing they would have made Edge a Gecko-based browser and worked on it.

err4nt 4y ago

Being in web development since 2004, I both thought the day would never arrive, and would have arrived a lot sooner than 2022. Tech-wise, there were times when IE was advanced, often in non-standard ways, but it was innovative. There are other ways where it was a major thorn in the side of every web developer and required much extra attention and care. And yet, since about 2014 or 2015, the world of web standards had caught up to and surpassed IE in every area. So here's to a surprisingly bittersweet farewell

zdragnar 4y ago
Back in the early 2010's, one of our more amusing interview questions for front-end developers was "What is your favorite thing about Internet Explorer?". We never really used the answer against anyone if they couldn't think of anything, but the advent of XHR and other improvements offered was something a lot of developers had already forgotten about, and it was interesting to see various responses and reactions.

logifail 4y ago

Q: What about the Internet Explorer versions that shipped in the Windows 10 LTSC[0], most (all?) of which are very much still "in support"[1]? [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/ltsc/ [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#what-are-the-requirements-for-servicing-and-updating-the-windows-10-long-term-servicing-channel https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/windows#what-...

currysausage 4y ago
Ctrl+F is your friend: "For certain versions of Windows currently in-support and used in critical environments, we will continue to support Internet Explorer on those versions until they go out of support. These include all currently in-support Windows 10 LTSC releases (including IoT) and all Windows Server versions, as well as Windows 10 China Government Edition, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 with Extended Security Updates (ESUs). Future versions of these editions will not include Internet Explorer."
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Windows 10 China Government Edition https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/05/23/announcing-windows-10-china-government-edition-new-surface-pro/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/05/23/annou...: > The Windows 10 China Government Edition is based on Windows 10 Enterprise Edition, which already includes many of the security, identity, deployment, and manageability features governments and enterprises need. The China Government Edition will use these manageability features to remove features that are not needed by Chinese government employees like OneDrive, to manage all telemetry and updates, and to enable the government to use its own encryption algorithms within its computer systems.
  - kingcharles 4y ago
    LOL. That's the first time I've heard of that. I thought I had access to all Windows 10 versions, but that one's not on my access list. Includes its own special encryption algorithms. Oh boy!

philliphaydon 4y ago

First time I ever wanted to embed an image into a HN comment. This image is so fitting! https://i.imgur.com/MgGvQHH.png https://i.imgur.com/MgGvQHH.png

Tijdreiziger 4y ago
And for more IE-related humor, I recommend the following webcomic: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/internet-explorer/list?title_no=219164&page=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/internet-explorer/list...
- nazgulsenpai 4y ago
  I clicked to laugh at a meme for a second and ended up reading an intriguing action packed drama about anthropomorphized web tech. This is awesome! Thanks for sharing :)
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Happy to see that HN is enjoying my recommendation :D I actually just discovered the same comic also has a voice-over: https://youtu.be/8rygV_MeudA https://youtu.be/8rygV_MeudA
john567 4y ago
This is so fitting because even if Microsoft is deprecating and giving up on this monstrosity the executable is still sitting there. Serving legacy web apps that should have been abandoned a long time ago...
- MrStonedOne 4y ago
user_7832 4y ago
I was not sure what that would be, but it got a solid chuckle out of me, thanks for lifting my mood!

open-paren 4y ago

I argue that moving it “out of support” doesn't mean anything for what browsers you have to support. Users and businesses still using IE11 aren't exactly those that are on the top of their IT policy game, so I doubt they will be jumping when the browser is “no longer supported by Microsoft.”

phpisthebest 4y ago
A couple of weeks back and edge update forced many many many users to Edge earlier than expected, if your tried to launch iexplorer.exe it would go to edge instead IEMode in Edge also works very well So if these companies are getting windows updates at all, or edge updates at all is somewhat not optional
- yamazakiwi 4y ago
  I have a friend who works for a VA Hospital and they've switched as of yesterday. So we know the DOD/VA is at least switching off old IE8/IE10 Apps. The funny part is the app they use still works, you're just forced to run it in compatibility mode on Edge (Holy, I forgot this existed) but their user profiles have limited access so they can't right-click, properties, unless they have admin priv. New browser, same old 2009 problems. Obviously this is not the browsers fault, it's just insane to hear about shops like this that still hold on to legacy apps FOREVER.
  - Sunspark 4y ago
    A big reason for why this is in my opinion, is not that they don't want to get an update, it's because of corporate politics. Someone has to be the manager that goes "boss, I want to spend money and resources to update an essential service and doing so will increase security and productivity." What is heard "<underling> boss, I want to spend money". Bosses never want to spend a cent, because of the "shareholders". They also don't want to say "yes" to something because if there is an issue, it is then their fault even if it was worth doing. They would rather kick the can down the road until the wheels come flying off the car. This is why nothing ever gets updated.

lemoncookiechip 4y ago

From a previous thread (lost link): "For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." The King is dead, long live the King.

mwcampbell 4y ago

Does anyone know when the forced redirect from IE to Edge actually lands, particularly in Windows 10? In particular, does anyone know when it will affect users that open IE by entering "iexplore URL" in the Run dialog? Is anyone seeing this behavior yet? I'm not.

sbf501 4y ago

Many countries that access my company site still use some version of IE (France and Japan come to mind). But they are still on Win7 too.

layer8 4y ago

I’ve still been using IE11 up to now by default (for the websites it still renders adequately, with Firefox as a fallback — there’s a “Open current page in Firefox” add-in), for the following reasons: - crisper and higher-contrast font rendering on low-DPI monitors - Ctrl+N/Ctrl+K clone the current tab into a new window/tab including its history, letting you “fork” the tab and effectively navigate a history tree. Edit: And, maybe more importantly, opening a link in new window/tab also clones the history. - generally good keyboard usage, e.g. for the history tab (you can for example always blindly hit Ctrl+H, Home, Enter to go to the last visited page, something which is more fiddly in other browsers) - larger viewport height than possible on Chrome/Firefox/Edge (after hiding the toolbar and status bar, configuring tabs to be on the address bar, etc.) - allows yellow search highlighting (which Firefox doesn’t on light backgrounds)

Liquid_Fire 4y ago
> - Ctrl+N/Ctrl+K clone the current tab into a new window/tab including its history, letting you “fork” the tab and effectively navigate a history tree. You can do this in Firefox by middle (or Control) clicking the Reload button.
- mister_tee 4y ago
  In Chrome those mouse actions work as well, or right-clicking a tab and selecting "Duplicate." I'm not sure if there's a keyboard command for it.
- layer8 4y ago
  Unfortunately there is no keyboard shortcut, and no option to open it in a new window (which is what I usually want). Also, what I initially forgot to mention, opening a link in new window/tab in IE also clones the history.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wonderbore 4y ago
You are now banned from Hacker News.

charles_f 4y ago

I didn't realize that it was still alive, and that some devs were still maintaining it. I am wondering if there were still apps out there in the corp world that would only work with ie11, even if just for blocking other agents.

xutopia 4y ago

So much effort from Microsoft to take over the web. They spent so much money and time on hurting all other browsers and web standards and for what?

wonderbore 4y ago
Money?

tiborsaas 4y ago

If you have some time between two cocktails while celebrating, do your visitors a favour and add this meta tag to your <head>: <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1"> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-iedoco/380e2488-f5eb-4457-a07a-0cb1b6e4b4b5 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/ie_standards/ms-i... This will make IE very insisting to upgrade to Edge if possible.

simongray 4y ago
Thank you for that tip.
electroly 4y ago
That's not what that is. "Edge" there doesn't mean Edge the browser, it means "latest"; it predates the Edge browser by many years. It has nothing to do with the Edge upgrade. It switches IE into the latest document mode that it supports. For IE11, it just puts it into IE11 mode.
Mathnerd314 4y ago
"Google Chrome Frame was discontinued in January 2014" https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22059060/is-it-still-valid-to-use-ie-edge-chrome-1 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22059060/is-it-still-val...

psim1 4y ago

IE may have been problematic from a tech point of view, but I'll eulogize that IE was important in advancing the web. The OS-integrated browser meant that in 1995, users had a full Internet stack readily available on their home PCs -- the widespread launch of Web 1.0. Later, IE was the pioneer of XMLHttpRequest, the beginning of Web 2.0. For these, we can say thanks, Microsoft! (for everything else, see other comments)

warning26 4y ago
People often forget that in the IE4 days, IE was leagues beyond Netscape. It had far better CSS and JS support, and you could do things that wouldn't be possible in Netscape for years. That said, it all came to an end after Microsoft "won" and disbanded the IE dev team, resulting in that era of stagnation we all remember.
anthk 4y ago
> users had a full Internet stack readily available on their home PCs No.

maxpert 4y ago

// One last time remembering IE6 var request = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP");

asddubs 4y ago
and to dress for the occasion: * html { _background:black !ie; }

wonderbore 4y ago

Is this Groundhog Day? How many more times will IE be declared dead? Official support is irrelevant if the browser is still stubbornly used by users. Most websites have moved on more than 5 years ago. This news is meaningless. This confirms it: > For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed. From https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/internet-explorer-microsoft-edge#is-internet-explorer-11-the-last-version-of-internet-explorer- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/faq/internet-expl...

oaiey 4y ago
In conservative IT businesses like hospitals this date is a deal breaker: No more security updates. In consequence IT will switch it off immediately. Guess why edge has an IE Mode.
- yread 4y ago
  That's not what conservative means. My conservative hospital client recently downgraded to Windows 7! If you pay MS enough you get security updates no problem. Not to mention that even the less conservative are probably on Windows 10 LTSC where IE11 will keep running
  - wonderbore 4y ago
    Microsoft made the mistake of letting users keep IE11 next to Edge. Egregious. Having a IE mode for whitelisted websites would have killed IE11 on public internet a long time ago. “Website broken? Click here to try IE11 mode.” But no, IE is still on the desktop and people will use it for both intranet and internet
snarkyturtle 4y ago
There are two things that differentiate this from other announcements: They're disabling certain versions of IE and redirecting users to Edge [1] and the global usage of IE is far, far, lower than it was even a couple of years ago. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/15/microsoft-to-retire-internet-explorer-browser-and-redirect-users-to-edge https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/15/microsoft...

kazinator 4y ago

I found IE11 pretty useful recently. I made to the web UI of a firmware device, and needed to check whether it will work with old browsers as far back as IE9. Because IE11 has an emulation mode, I didn't have to install IE9. Thank you, IE11! :)

asddubs 4y ago
yeesh, ie9, my condolences.

intrasight 4y ago

I started doing web development back in Netscape - adding graphics extensions. I think it was 1995. But I really dug into SPA/AJAX web apps in 2000 - building enterprise stuff. They were all "IE6 apps". IE6 was basically my X-windows. No other browsers were supported, and there as no pushback from customers back then. Only one of those apps made the transition to IE11. Last year I explained to my current client that our big enterprise reporting app had to move off IE11. And I was really surprised how much pushback on got on that.

aquova 4y ago

Slightly tangential, but does this mean that Wine prefixes will no longer need to include Internet Explorer? If you ever go digging through a Wine prefix's Program Files, there are a handful of default Windows applications, including IE and Windows Media Player. I've never been really sure why my Steam library is filled with a dozen copies of IE, but I'm curious if they will still be added.

netr0ute 4y ago
Ironically, Wine has better support for older programs than Windows itself. Therefore, why would they remove backwards compat and get rid of a major selling point?
iggldiggl 4y ago
Well, there's Internet Explorer as the complete browser, but there's also the rendering engine behind it that's still needed to power the web browser controls used by all sorts of applications. If I'm understanding things right by default Wine emulates it using Gecko, but you can still install the original Microsoft DLLs for maximum compatibility. Likewise on Windows itself, Microsoft will have to continue shipping IE's rendering engine for backwards compatibility with all those programs using the old web view control (as well as Edge's hidden IE11-mode).

jrochkind1 4y ago

MOSTLY. > Windows releases where Internet Explorer will still be available after June 15, 2022, include Windows 7 ESU, Windows 8.1, and all versions of Windows 10 LTSC client, IoT, and Server. > "The Internet Explorer (IE) 11 desktop application will end support for Windows 10 semi-annual channel starting June 15, 2022," Microsoft says on the IE11 lifecycle page. > As Microsoft further explains, "for supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will continue receiving security updates and technical support for the lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed." https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/internet-explorer-almost-breathes-its-final-byte-on-wednesday/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/internet-exp... I gotta say... MS is serious about long-term support commitments and backwards compat!

Sunspark 4y ago
I've never quite understood this MS policy of "ending support" but continuing support anyway for extended support contract customers or for specific versions, etc. The way I look at it, MS obviously is actually continuing to support the product, they are just choosing not to make it available to most people. It's still supported, just not for everyone. I feel that if security patches are still being produced, they should be released as opposed to expecting people to use nothing, or roll their own by getting patches from a third party. They could be released as "donations" to the public good from the big customers.
- krylon 4y ago
  As I recall (vaguely) Microsoft did release a few security fixes for Windows XP and Windows 7 after their respective ends-of-lives on a case-by-case basis when the security issue was especially bad. I am by no means a fan of Microsoft's, but when you release an OS and some applications and provide security fixes for ten years, asking for people who want to continue using that OS/app beyond that point to buy a support contract is not a complete dick move. In the FLOSS world, you may get volunteers who maintain a piece of software as a labor of love, but with something like Windows or IE, someone needs to pay people to do that work. It might make sense to create something like a foundation to take care of the long term support for software, which would benefit everyone. I'm kind of surprised actually that this has not happened, yet (to my knowledge, at least).

user_7832 4y ago

I posted this as a reply to a comment here but I felt it would be better to ask as a separate comment - Does anyone (especially from MS) know why later versions of IE and pre-chromium Edge were so good and snappy with scrolling? The level of accuracy and speed was incredible (on touchpads at least) - it was probably the last time I had an interaction on a computer that made me go "wow".

kiririn 4y ago
I agree the input lag and scroll curves in later IE was some of the best I’ve seen. Firefox was as good for a time but is now (slightly) worse after changing to a more chrome-like curve They really went all out on input lag reduction for Windows 8 touch interfaces. I remember some videos from the time where they showed off such low input lag that scrolling and drawing almost perfectly tracked finger movement. Perhaps not so impressive today with iOS as a benchmark, but Windows is still king for desktop input lag

Mattmrmatt 4y ago

Bye bye IE and thank you!

geniium 4y ago

kthxbye

pavlov 4y ago

There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far. Netscape 4 was unstable and had completely botched all the fancy new features: its implementation of CSS (brand new at the time) was so bad that even font sizes didn't work right, its homegrown "layers" API for JavaScript DOM access was awful, and many web developers were wishing they could somehow get away with only supporting IE. 25 years after the release of IE4, I'm just glad both of those browser codebases are now dead. IE was really done in by Microsoft's "Longhorn" OS project. After Windows XP, Microsoft was planning a very ambitious update that would completely reset core APIs. File systems would be largely replaced by an OS-level database, and the Win32 GUI API would be replaced by an XML-based UI framework codenamed Avalon. A new Avalon browser would ship with the OS, and thus IE + HTML would become legacy technologies as Microsoft confidently assumed most developers would flock to building their web apps in Avalon instead. To Microsoft strategists, it seemed that they had succeeded in containing the web: Netscape was dead, Mozilla had almost no users, Apple was shipping their IE in Mac OS X, Google wasn't on Microsoft's radar, and the HTML standard process was stalled. So while a lot of content was being delivered as HTML4, there didn't seem to be any reason left for Microsoft to invest in IE — they'd already nailed the browser, owned the market, and would push Avalon as the next step. Fortunately, Longhorn failed. Some parts of the project eventually shipped years late as Windows Vista. Avalon became WPF + XAML and still exists in Windows, but the dream of a XAML browser replacing IE was dead.

hulitu 4y ago
> There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far Only as a preview for web 3. Netscape, even when crashing, was faster and more user friendly. Error messages in IE were surrealistic. Unfortunately those are today standard in todays browsers.
Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
> There was a time in 1998-99 when Internet Explorer 4 / 5 was actually the best browser by far. Especially the Mac version of IE 5. Tasman was such a breath of fresh air. I never understood why they didn't use that engine everywhere.

pmarreck 4y ago

RIP, and good riddance

kasajian 4y ago

That's awesome. But what happens if you double-click on an .hta file?

hidden-spyder 4y ago

Why is IE still in use and what's stopping people from switching over to something new?

Agamus 4y ago

I am eternally grateful to IE for shoving me early and squarely to the Linux/FOSS side. Thank you, IE - and good riddance!

Spooky23 4y ago

…on Windows 10. It’s still a thing on server.

suff 4y ago

101008 4y ago

I'd take any day the old internet with IE than our current internet with current browsers.

caycep 4y ago

Except it's still required to run HIPAA-sensitive EHR's like Allscripts. facepalm (note, they say they are compatible with Edge etc. But sadly they are really not)

ChrisArchitect 4y ago

Seeing a timeline animation of browser share made me both nostalgic about the browser wars days and how IE took over after (and for a time was the best), and also sad about what happened to Firefox, which was so exciting in those early days becoming very much a standard but falling to the wayside as Chrome snuck up. It's just sad where it ended up today as an also ran for some/holdout for others (I still insist my parents use it etc) with difficult marketing and who knows what level of development behind the scenes. Sigh.

major505 4y ago

Nice. Now I only have to support it for 11 more years because my stubborn clients will continue to use explorer in windows 7.

newbieuser 4y ago

Would the web have been a different place if IE had gone a different way instead of its current bullshit? I mean, I wonder what effect this would have on the current state of the web if it complied with general standards.

lindamer 4y ago