7 ms·

Misbehaving Microsoft Teams ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop

281 points by hazzamanic 5y ago

tonetheman 5y ago
An ad can take down your computer... sigh. Microsoft you have learned nothing... :(
matheusmoreira 5y ago
It just keeps getting worse and worse.
bloopernova 5y ago
And this is why I ditched Windows when the preview edition installed v11, and moved to Fedora.
jrockway 5y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332
loudtieblahblah 5y ago
grumpycat_good.jpg
grishka 5y ago
It would really be a shame if something were to happen to the files that contain the code that implements these "features".
hfktktnfkgk 5y ago
One bug I've been hitting for a couple of years on Windows 10: If the computer starts with a working Internet connection, but then you lose Internet, Start Menu search just stops working during net downtime. Meaning I type some app name like "calc" in the Start Menu search box and nothing appears! Which is absolutely ridiculous, I can't search for locally installed apps, or Windows settings. Even if I disabled Cortana and Internet search in the Statt Menu (or maybe because of it?) And I failed to Google the problem since all the keywords combinations I tried inevitably lead to some article on how to disable Internet search in the Start Menu, so I have no idea if I'm the only one with this bug.
- sitzkrieg 5y ago
  i have hit this and it drives me nuts. not in a while though, maybe i havent tried when net down lately
- DixieDev 5y ago
  Can't be sure, and forgive me if this is already what you mean by disabling "Internet Search", but I suspect you are experiencing this because of Bing's involvement in the start menu search. To fix it, you have to regedit some stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/f09184/how_to_block_bing_search_in_windows_10_start_menu/fgs6z7i https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/f09184/how_to_bl...
  - Spivak 5y ago
    I had to use the registry key as well because MS broke the GPO (I would say on purpose but anyone who is in a position to mess with GPOs knows how to edit registry keys with it as well) but it really does get rid of it for good.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  For me, in Windows 10, I can type "calc" into the search menu and it will recommend and open the calendar app instead of the calculator app 2 out of 5 times. I will search for an app that I have installed and instead of opening the app it will open a bing search for the app that I have installed. It's so infuriating that if there were a M$ rep within arm reach I might be tempted to do violence towards them.
  - eric__cartman 5y ago
    The search function in Windows 10 is pathetic. It almost seems like an April fool's joke that was left in place for too long. What is double stupid is that MS already had a working search built into the shell in Windows 7. It's like they don't understand that no one ever woke up one day and thought to themselves, "I hope I could search the web using the start menu in Windows".
INTPenis 5y ago
I will begrudgingly use windows 11 at some point because of the games you can play on it. But for anything else I'm so glad Linux and its ecosystem exists, and is only getting more stable lately. Windows gives me heartburn.
- heyitsguay 5y ago
  If you're playing games through Steam and haven't checked out Proton in a while, give it another try! The only game I haven't been able to get work on Ubuntu 16/18/20 is Fallout 3.
  - dankwizard 5y ago
    Don't feel bad - Fallout 3 (atleast from Steam) no longer works on Windows 10 either! Installed it the other day, googled after it failed to launch, and saw there's a few community efforts and hacks you can try to get it up and running. I gave up.
  - azalemeth 5y ago
    I completed Fallout 3 a few months ago on Ubuntu 20 under Proton (and Fallout: New Vegas). Try using Lutris's implementation of wine ± proton -- my GOG copy "just worked", much to my surprise. Including the mods, and mod managers! If you continue to have trouble, drop me an email and I'll give you my configuration. I very much second your sentiment about proton being "good enough". It's amazing! I have a less than stellar GPU -- a Radeon 570 -- and haven't found a single game that I can't play on 'ultra' settings at 1080p, including the in-development BG3. After Apple's CSAM awfulness, my next laptop will be linux, ideally with a Zen processor, quite possibly running Manjaro and either KDE or i3.
    - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
      There's only one ThinkPad with Ryzen that comes preloaded with Linux last I checked, but I'm hoping more come out soon since I really like ThinkPads. Either way, ThinkPads are worth a look since they play well with Linux, whether they come with Linux preloaded or not. I'm also in the market (to replace my MacBook-esque XPS 13 Developer Edition), so if someone wants to suggest me a (other than ThinkPads) 13-14 inch laptop that will play well with Linux [not necessarily preloaded], let me know.
whalesalad 5y ago
This is the achilles heel of Microsoft. They will cannibalize a successful part of their business in order to subsidize/bootstrap/launch or even straight-up force the adoption of new service. Every Windows release gets progressively worse when it comes to Microsoft's integrated services and how obtrusive they are. The cherry on top is the fact that Windows 10 Pro is $199 and yet you'll still feel like you are flying Sprit airlines when you boot it up.
- meibo 5y ago
  It's such a shame too. Windows 10 is a great modern OS that everyone expected to last and be built upon, but they just had to go and push out a new "modernized" version and fill it up with ads. I wonder what you pay to be in the Windows 10 Pro start menu and if it's really worth selling out their professional userbase.
  - PostThisTooFast 5y ago
    How is it a "great modern OS?" Internally? Because its UI and user experience are a shitshow. Settings are scattered everywhere. Windows have no toolbars, title bars, or borders to distinguish them from the one they're overlapping. Menu bars are missing. There are access-prohibited shadows of user directories all over the place in Explorer. The color-scheme editor is simply gone. It's still full of peek-a-boo and Easter-egg UI, with controls disguised as text or simply invisible unless you accidentally roll over them. And my favorite: Microsoft has disabled remote desktop access except in its "pro" version. Gee, Microsoft: Your contention is that a PROFESSIONAL is the most likely customer to need someone else to log in and help him remotely? Retarded. When my parents have an issue that I could log in and solve, guess what? I can't. And no, Microsoft, I'm not "upgrading" them to a "pro" version of your broken shit. I'm going to buy them a Mac, and that's the end of Windows in any of my family's homes. And this is coming from a former Windows enthusiast / professional developer / Mac scorner. You don't realize how unusable Windows has become until you try to set someone up on it. Its E-mail program is absymal, defective in design and function. Outlook isn't included anymore. If you do make the mistake of installing another glorified spam conduit, Office 365, you'll be treated to defects that literally render it unusable to some people: I increased the system-wide font size for my parents, but Outlook didn't honor it. E-mail subjects in the In box remained microscopic and illegible. And of course there's the endless goddamned harangue to log in with your Microsoft account. A huge portion of the population is laden with an ever-growing pile of accounts and passwords. An account to log into your computer. Another for E-mail. Another for Apple products. Another for your cable provider. ENOUGH. They have no idea which one I'm asking for when I need to get their password to help them with something. It's easy for the Hacker News demographic to forget that PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MESS. And so they are writing down their IDs and passwords on Post-Its and putting them on their computers. They are using the same password on every site that demands that they use an E-mail address as a user ID, because they think that this is required. Then the users feel dumb and blame themselves for problems, which pisses me off even more. They're being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MICROSOFT and others, rendering their computers essentially unusable and their security at risk. It's disgraceful.
geodel 5y ago
I used to doubt power of ads. No longer.
errantspark 5y ago
It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I run LTSC with updates disabled because the idea that something that's working one day would stop working the next drives me up the wall. I have a linux phone (which is awful) because at least when that breaks it's my fault and I can always just put it back into a known working state. I hate how my relationship with Microsoft/Google etc is essentially one where they're constantly pushing the boundaries of what I'm willing to put up with. It's fucking abusive.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  > we're okay with this level of uncertainty no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    I sometimes like to joke that seeing a company push for Windows / Teams, and, more generally, software that fights against you instead of helping you do your job must be some kind of signaling. "Look how well-off we are, we can afford to pay our employees full-time while they only work half the time".
- marcodiego 5y ago
  > ... we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices. I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.
  - Jorengarenar 5y ago
    I, on the other hand, would need to sacrifice a lot of convenience to be included in this "we"
chrisan 5y ago
Looks like the tradition of skipping a terrible windows release will continue Me.. Vista.. 8.. 11
loicd 5y ago
There used to be the "Windows tax" that the rest of Microsoft had to pay[1], now I guess that there is the "Rest-of-Microsoft tax" that Windows has to pay. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feab...
- jfptech 5y ago
  That’s funny considering Microsoft is so tax averse when it comes to its own finances. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-tough-against-microsoft-microsoft-got-tougher https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-to...
zz865 5y ago
Windows 11 hasn't been released yet right?
- joenathanone 5y ago
  Will be released to GA next month.
- achr2 5y ago
  It's not so much the fact that an issue occurred, but rather the fact that this type of issue can occur at all. They have coupled nagware into the core of the OS.
reilly3000 5y ago
For what it’s worth, the web has figured out ad serving. With stuff like SafeFrame there is decent sandboxing and exception handling. I’ve really not seen any ad serving outside of web and app sdks that doesn’t fail miserably on a technical level.
- AlotOfReading 5y ago
  Has the web figured out ad serving? I was under the impression that malvertising was still very much an issue and even best-in-class security doesn't outright stop things like cryptominers, but instead simply prevents them from consuming too many resources. It's better than wherever MS used here, but I'm definitely not comfortable using the web without an adblocker.
  - reilly3000 5y ago
    It’s not a solved issue to be certain, but sites that use a service like CleanCreative rarely have issues, as do any publishers that whitelist ads and advertisers.
clavicat 5y ago
Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world, yet Microsoft does not treat it like the most important piece of software in the entire world. They have no sense of responsibility about foisting this garbage onto billions of users. I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I've come to feel that Windows needs to be completely replaced. We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.
- dstaley 5y ago
  You do realize this issue was on Windows 11, an unreleased operating system correct? I'm not saying Windows 10 hasn't had its share of critical issues, but I can't remember the last time Microsoft released widely a show-stopping bug to the LTS branch of Windows (that is, the branch you'd be using for "mission-critical" applications).
  - XorNot 5y ago
    The existence of ads as a "core" part of the Windows experience speaks otherwise. Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
  - ptero 5y ago
    It is not any unreleased OS though. It is a major release of the most widely used desktop OS in the world, that presumably got through many layers of testing and was released to a small set of outside users before the final rollout less than 1 month away. One would expect a pretty solid state by then.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      so it was caught by an additional layer of testing, a little later down the pipeline than desired, but caught nonetheless
  - brian_herman 5y ago
    Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a repeat of Windows Vista and I'll be able to stay on 10 for a while before they create Windows 12 which will be a much better release.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
To clarify, though, this is just an issue for people who are deliberately getting preview builds (aka beta testers), correct? The article feels pretty click-baity with that critical detail not part of the title.
- nomel 5y ago
  This is like driving some prototype car and having the brakes go out when your tail light burns out. It's a serious concern because it's not something that should be able to happen, with a sane design. Sure, it's click-baity, but it's also insanity.
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    I've been on insider edition beta versions of windows for years and while I don't mind occasional hiccups stuff like this made me get rid of it. It was fine for a while but ever since the 20202H update it's been one major issue after another.
- haswell 5y ago
  Correct, this is a beta build. With that said, I get that things go bad in betas - this is the point of a beta release - but this still feels egregiously bad. It also highlights the direction Windows is going, which is cause for criticism even if this worked perfectly.
- MrStonedOne 5y ago
  internet downloaded ads shouldn't be able to break your computers. like, even in a buggy system, it shouldn't happened, and there is clearly not enough isolation, something that isn't gonna get fixed in a release candidate and be prepared for this to somehow turn into a ring0 exploit later down the line.
  - JohnFen 5y ago
    Even more than that, your OS should not be showing you ads at all, let alone downloading them. The problem here isn't that the facility went wrong, it's that the facility exists.
theknocker 5y ago
I'm also a big fan of the weather widget they tried to force on everyone's start bar. I'm also a big fan of how "one drive" is now critical functionality, and windows needs to persistently notify me if I'm not logged into it. I'm also a big fan of how it's 2021, and their bloated OS still takes like ten minutes to truly boot up all the way.
sleepytimetea 5y ago
HERE BE DRAGONS. From the article comes this nugget of knowledge. quote This problem combines two of latter-day Windows' most annoying tendencies. First, the operating system relentlessly promotes and prioritizes Microsoft's first-party apps and services. Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. As Aleksandersen correctly points out, these non-essential background processes shouldn't be capable of breaking core functionality. unquote
- hulitu 5y ago
  > Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. Microsoft has learned nothing from Solar Winds. Time for some popcorn. It's funny how the concept of security has slipped from "no open ports and no default services" to "backdoors (automatic download and install) and telemetry (data exfiltration without permission -also backdoor).
marcodiego 5y ago
Correct title: "ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop". There's no "well behaving ad".
- flutterwascrap 5y ago
  Just remove all ads. That should fix the bug.
pcdoodle 5y ago
This also creates trust issues in a lot of applications like Point of Sale, Machine Control Devices, Security and Automation Solutions, Motion Control Solutions, Etc. I miss Balmer a little bit. Developers hate this shit. Have trust that if you support developers, they will advocate your OS.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  Actually I think windows became much better for developers after ballmer. VSCode, github, wsl, wsl2... It seems to me that ballmer was much more about windows-only everywhere than developers.
newbamboo 5y ago
Sounds like a feature, not a bug.
jhanschoo 5y ago
Looks like Windows is the Smart TV of home computers since Win10
tempfs 5y ago
Teams, that application that is notoriously slow, unstable and crashy AF...will soon be 100% baked in and inseparable from the rest of the OS. [cue hyper-emotional MSFT spokesperson reaction GIF]
windex 5y ago
What ever happened to simple, light weight, free standing OSes? Why does everything have to be networked, with "like share subscribe" buttons, bundled with crap and always online?
- errantspark 5y ago
  It's profitable to do so. If I had to point a finger it is because individuals (and companies, made up of individuals) do not take responsibility for their part in supporting institutions that corrode the commons for personal gain. If you work for a place that is largely just about shuffling money to yourself by exploiting info asymmetry sabotage it or quit. You most likely have a skillset that can earn you a living wage somewhere that's a net positive for society.
haolez 5y ago
Maybe Haiku with a good web browser will save us :)
Causality1 5y ago
Microsoft stopped using real hardware for Windows Update testing and instead now rely on virtual machines. Ever since then Windows Update has been the most incompetent, half-assed major software project in the world, bar none. Java has a better track record.
megablast 5y ago
And this wonderful webpage starts playing a video with. I thing to do with the story. What a joke.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

281 points by hazzamanic 5y ago

tonetheman 5y ago

An ad can take down your computer... sigh. Microsoft you have learned nothing... :(

matheusmoreira 5y ago

It just keeps getting worse and worse.

bloopernova 5y ago

And this is why I ditched Windows when the preview edition installed v11, and moved to Fedora.

jrockway 5y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28404332

loudtieblahblah 5y ago

grumpycat_good.jpg

grishka 5y ago

It would really be a shame if something were to happen to the files that contain the code that implements these "features".

hfktktnfkgk 5y ago

One bug I've been hitting for a couple of years on Windows 10: If the computer starts with a working Internet connection, but then you lose Internet, Start Menu search just stops working during net downtime. Meaning I type some app name like "calc" in the Start Menu search box and nothing appears! Which is absolutely ridiculous, I can't search for locally installed apps, or Windows settings. Even if I disabled Cortana and Internet search in the Statt Menu (or maybe because of it?) And I failed to Google the problem since all the keywords combinations I tried inevitably lead to some article on how to disable Internet search in the Start Menu, so I have no idea if I'm the only one with this bug.

sitzkrieg 5y ago
i have hit this and it drives me nuts. not in a while though, maybe i havent tried when net down lately
DixieDev 5y ago
Can't be sure, and forgive me if this is already what you mean by disabling "Internet Search", but I suspect you are experiencing this because of Bing's involvement in the start menu search. To fix it, you have to regedit some stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/f09184/how_to_block_bing_search_in_windows_10_start_menu/fgs6z7i https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/f09184/how_to_bl...
- Spivak 5y ago
  I had to use the registry key as well because MS broke the GPO (I would say on purpose but anyone who is in a position to mess with GPOs knows how to edit registry keys with it as well) but it really does get rid of it for good.
BizarroLand 5y ago
For me, in Windows 10, I can type "calc" into the search menu and it will recommend and open the calendar app instead of the calculator app 2 out of 5 times. I will search for an app that I have installed and instead of opening the app it will open a bing search for the app that I have installed. It's so infuriating that if there were a M$ rep within arm reach I might be tempted to do violence towards them.
- eric__cartman 5y ago
  The search function in Windows 10 is pathetic. It almost seems like an April fool's joke that was left in place for too long. What is double stupid is that MS already had a working search built into the shell in Windows 7. It's like they don't understand that no one ever woke up one day and thought to themselves, "I hope I could search the web using the start menu in Windows".

INTPenis 5y ago

I will begrudgingly use windows 11 at some point because of the games you can play on it. But for anything else I'm so glad Linux and its ecosystem exists, and is only getting more stable lately. Windows gives me heartburn.

heyitsguay 5y ago
If you're playing games through Steam and haven't checked out Proton in a while, give it another try! The only game I haven't been able to get work on Ubuntu 16/18/20 is Fallout 3.
- dankwizard 5y ago
  Don't feel bad - Fallout 3 (atleast from Steam) no longer works on Windows 10 either! Installed it the other day, googled after it failed to launch, and saw there's a few community efforts and hacks you can try to get it up and running. I gave up.
- azalemeth 5y ago
  I completed Fallout 3 a few months ago on Ubuntu 20 under Proton (and Fallout: New Vegas). Try using Lutris's implementation of wine ± proton -- my GOG copy "just worked", much to my surprise. Including the mods, and mod managers! If you continue to have trouble, drop me an email and I'll give you my configuration. I very much second your sentiment about proton being "good enough". It's amazing! I have a less than stellar GPU -- a Radeon 570 -- and haven't found a single game that I can't play on 'ultra' settings at 1080p, including the in-development BG3. After Apple's CSAM awfulness, my next laptop will be linux, ideally with a Zen processor, quite possibly running Manjaro and either KDE or i3.
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    There's only one ThinkPad with Ryzen that comes preloaded with Linux last I checked, but I'm hoping more come out soon since I really like ThinkPads. Either way, ThinkPads are worth a look since they play well with Linux, whether they come with Linux preloaded or not. I'm also in the market (to replace my MacBook-esque XPS 13 Developer Edition), so if someone wants to suggest me a (other than ThinkPads) 13-14 inch laptop that will play well with Linux [not necessarily preloaded], let me know.

whalesalad 5y ago

This is the achilles heel of Microsoft. They will cannibalize a successful part of their business in order to subsidize/bootstrap/launch or even straight-up force the adoption of new service. Every Windows release gets progressively worse when it comes to Microsoft's integrated services and how obtrusive they are. The cherry on top is the fact that Windows 10 Pro is $199 and yet you'll still feel like you are flying Sprit airlines when you boot it up.

meibo 5y ago
It's such a shame too. Windows 10 is a great modern OS that everyone expected to last and be built upon, but they just had to go and push out a new "modernized" version and fill it up with ads. I wonder what you pay to be in the Windows 10 Pro start menu and if it's really worth selling out their professional userbase.
- PostThisTooFast 5y ago
  How is it a "great modern OS?" Internally? Because its UI and user experience are a shitshow. Settings are scattered everywhere. Windows have no toolbars, title bars, or borders to distinguish them from the one they're overlapping. Menu bars are missing. There are access-prohibited shadows of user directories all over the place in Explorer. The color-scheme editor is simply gone. It's still full of peek-a-boo and Easter-egg UI, with controls disguised as text or simply invisible unless you accidentally roll over them. And my favorite: Microsoft has disabled remote desktop access except in its "pro" version. Gee, Microsoft: Your contention is that a PROFESSIONAL is the most likely customer to need someone else to log in and help him remotely? Retarded. When my parents have an issue that I could log in and solve, guess what? I can't. And no, Microsoft, I'm not "upgrading" them to a "pro" version of your broken shit. I'm going to buy them a Mac, and that's the end of Windows in any of my family's homes. And this is coming from a former Windows enthusiast / professional developer / Mac scorner. You don't realize how unusable Windows has become until you try to set someone up on it. Its E-mail program is absymal, defective in design and function. Outlook isn't included anymore. If you do make the mistake of installing another glorified spam conduit, Office 365, you'll be treated to defects that literally render it unusable to some people: I increased the system-wide font size for my parents, but Outlook didn't honor it. E-mail subjects in the In box remained microscopic and illegible. And of course there's the endless goddamned harangue to log in with your Microsoft account. A huge portion of the population is laden with an ever-growing pile of accounts and passwords. An account to log into your computer. Another for E-mail. Another for Apple products. Another for your cable provider. ENOUGH. They have no idea which one I'm asking for when I need to get their password to help them with something. It's easy for the Hacker News demographic to forget that PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS MESS. And so they are writing down their IDs and passwords on Post-Its and putting them on their computers. They are using the same password on every site that demands that they use an E-mail address as a user ID, because they think that this is required. Then the users feel dumb and blame themselves for problems, which pisses me off even more. They're being TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY MICROSOFT and others, rendering their computers essentially unusable and their security at risk. It's disgraceful.

geodel 5y ago

I used to doubt power of ads. No longer.

errantspark 5y ago

It's so mind boggling to me that we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I run LTSC with updates disabled because the idea that something that's working one day would stop working the next drives me up the wall. I have a linux phone (which is awful) because at least when that breaks it's my fault and I can always just put it back into a known working state. I hate how my relationship with Microsoft/Google etc is essentially one where they're constantly pushing the boundaries of what I'm willing to put up with. It's fucking abusive.

mistrial9 5y ago
> we're okay with this level of uncertainty no, you are not the customer.. executive management, legal and finance are the target customer
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I sometimes like to joke that seeing a company push for Windows / Teams, and, more generally, software that fights against you instead of helping you do your job must be some kind of signaling. "Look how well-off we are, we can afford to pay our employees full-time while they only work half the time".
marcodiego 5y ago
> ... we're okay with this level of uncertainty about the systems we rely on every day. I'm not included in this "we". And I definitely pay a price for that by sacrificing some convenience. I'm sure the price would be lower if more people were willing to make the same sacrifices. I can understand most end users being okay with that. Most are not educated to know the problems or alternatives. But developers should consider how contributions in code or money could improve competition and encourage development of better software for everyone.
- Jorengarenar 5y ago
  I, on the other hand, would need to sacrifice a lot of convenience to be included in this "we"

chrisan 5y ago

Looks like the tradition of skipping a terrible windows release will continue Me.. Vista.. 8.. 11

loicd 5y ago

There used to be the "Windows tax" that the rest of Microsoft had to pay[1], now I guess that there is the "Rest-of-Microsoft tax" that Windows has to pay. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/9e09d082-b5d3-11e3-a1bd-00144feab...

jfptech 5y ago
That’s funny considering Microsoft is so tax averse when it comes to its own finances. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-tough-against-microsoft-microsoft-got-tougher https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-to...

zz865 5y ago

Windows 11 hasn't been released yet right?

joenathanone 5y ago
Will be released to GA next month.
achr2 5y ago
It's not so much the fact that an issue occurred, but rather the fact that this type of issue can occur at all. They have coupled nagware into the core of the OS.

reilly3000 5y ago

For what it’s worth, the web has figured out ad serving. With stuff like SafeFrame there is decent sandboxing and exception handling. I’ve really not seen any ad serving outside of web and app sdks that doesn’t fail miserably on a technical level.

AlotOfReading 5y ago
Has the web figured out ad serving? I was under the impression that malvertising was still very much an issue and even best-in-class security doesn't outright stop things like cryptominers, but instead simply prevents them from consuming too many resources. It's better than wherever MS used here, but I'm definitely not comfortable using the web without an adblocker.
- reilly3000 5y ago
  It’s not a solved issue to be certain, but sites that use a service like CleanCreative rarely have issues, as do any publishers that whitelist ads and advertisers.

clavicat 5y ago

Windows is probably the most important piece of software in the entire world, yet Microsoft does not treat it like the most important piece of software in the entire world. They have no sense of responsibility about foisting this garbage onto billions of users. I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I've come to feel that Windows needs to be completely replaced. We simply cannot trust Microsoft with mission-critical software any longer.

dstaley 5y ago
You do realize this issue was on Windows 11, an unreleased operating system correct? I'm not saying Windows 10 hasn't had its share of critical issues, but I can't remember the last time Microsoft released widely a show-stopping bug to the LTS branch of Windows (that is, the branch you'd be using for "mission-critical" applications).
- XorNot 5y ago
  The existence of ads as a "core" part of the Windows experience speaks otherwise. Why are there ads in paid software? Why is Microsoft content having a separation of "serious" Windows and consumer Windows, delineated by ads and spyware?
- ptero 5y ago
  It is not any unreleased OS though. It is a major release of the most widely used desktop OS in the world, that presumably got through many layers of testing and was released to a small set of outside users before the final rollout less than 1 month away. One would expect a pretty solid state by then.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    so it was caught by an additional layer of testing, a little later down the pipeline than desired, but caught nonetheless
- brian_herman 5y ago
  Yeah, but I'm thinking this is a repeat of Windows Vista and I'll be able to stay on 10 for a while before they create Windows 12 which will be a much better release.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

To clarify, though, this is just an issue for people who are deliberately getting preview builds (aka beta testers), correct? The article feels pretty click-baity with that critical detail not part of the title.

nomel 5y ago
This is like driving some prototype car and having the brakes go out when your tail light burns out. It's a serious concern because it's not something that should be able to happen, with a sane design. Sure, it's click-baity, but it's also insanity.
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  I've been on insider edition beta versions of windows for years and while I don't mind occasional hiccups stuff like this made me get rid of it. It was fine for a while but ever since the 20202H update it's been one major issue after another.
haswell 5y ago
Correct, this is a beta build. With that said, I get that things go bad in betas - this is the point of a beta release - but this still feels egregiously bad. It also highlights the direction Windows is going, which is cause for criticism even if this worked perfectly.
MrStonedOne 5y ago
internet downloaded ads shouldn't be able to break your computers. like, even in a buggy system, it shouldn't happened, and there is clearly not enough isolation, something that isn't gonna get fixed in a release candidate and be prepared for this to somehow turn into a ring0 exploit later down the line.
- JohnFen 5y ago
  Even more than that, your OS should not be showing you ads at all, let alone downloading them. The problem here isn't that the facility went wrong, it's that the facility exists.

theknocker 5y ago

I'm also a big fan of the weather widget they tried to force on everyone's start bar. I'm also a big fan of how "one drive" is now critical functionality, and windows needs to persistently notify me if I'm not logged into it. I'm also a big fan of how it's 2021, and their bloated OS still takes like ten minutes to truly boot up all the way.

sleepytimetea 5y ago

HERE BE DRAGONS. From the article comes this nugget of knowledge. quote This problem combines two of latter-day Windows' most annoying tendencies. First, the operating system relentlessly promotes and prioritizes Microsoft's first-party apps and services. Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. As Aleksandersen correctly points out, these non-essential background processes shouldn't be capable of breaking core functionality. unquote

hulitu 5y ago
> Second, the operating system talks to Microsoft's servers in the background to report diagnostic data, fetch advertisements, and even download Windows Store apps without asking. Microsoft has learned nothing from Solar Winds. Time for some popcorn. It's funny how the concept of security has slipped from "no open ports and no default services" to "backdoors (automatic download and install) and telemetry (data exfiltration without permission -also backdoor).

marcodiego 5y ago

Correct title: "ad brings down the entire Windows 11 desktop". There's no "well behaving ad".

flutterwascrap 5y ago
Just remove all ads. That should fix the bug.

pcdoodle 5y ago

This also creates trust issues in a lot of applications like Point of Sale, Machine Control Devices, Security and Automation Solutions, Motion Control Solutions, Etc. I miss Balmer a little bit. Developers hate this shit. Have trust that if you support developers, they will advocate your OS.

marcodiego 5y ago
Actually I think windows became much better for developers after ballmer. VSCode, github, wsl, wsl2... It seems to me that ballmer was much more about windows-only everywhere than developers.

newbamboo 5y ago

Sounds like a feature, not a bug.

jhanschoo 5y ago

Looks like Windows is the Smart TV of home computers since Win10

tempfs 5y ago

Teams, that application that is notoriously slow, unstable and crashy AF...will soon be 100% baked in and inseparable from the rest of the OS. [cue hyper-emotional MSFT spokesperson reaction GIF]

windex 5y ago

What ever happened to simple, light weight, free standing OSes? Why does everything have to be networked, with "like share subscribe" buttons, bundled with crap and always online?

errantspark 5y ago
It's profitable to do so. If I had to point a finger it is because individuals (and companies, made up of individuals) do not take responsibility for their part in supporting institutions that corrode the commons for personal gain. If you work for a place that is largely just about shuffling money to yourself by exploiting info asymmetry sabotage it or quit. You most likely have a skillset that can earn you a living wage somewhere that's a net positive for society.

haolez 5y ago

Maybe Haiku with a good web browser will save us :)

Causality1 5y ago

Microsoft stopped using real hardware for Windows Update testing and instead now rely on virtual machines. Ever since then Windows Update has been the most incompetent, half-assed major software project in the world, bar none. Java has a better track record.

megablast 5y ago

And this wonderful webpage starts playing a video with. I thing to do with the story. What a joke.

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