21 ms·

As long as we're having a big bitch-fest here, I'll throw in my $.02. Other than expanding batteries, my laptops have generally been trouble-free. But the pro

As long as we're having a big bitch-fest here, I'll throw in my $.02. Other than expanding batteries, my laptops have generally been trouble-free. But the problem I do have is that the older my MBP, the slower it becomes when I upgrade the OS. When I upgraded my 2015 to Big Sur last year, it essentially became unusable because it ran so slowly. It now sits in my closet. Apple should stop nagging you to upgrade the OS if your hardware wasn't built to support the newer versions. Just give us security updates and leave the rest alone. I think that would make a lot of users happy.

amelius 5y ago
Put Linux on it.
- amatecha 5y ago
  Yeah, I got a 2009 MacBook Pro for free (or like $10 or something, I forget), and it's now running the latest FreeBSD. BSD, GNU/Linux and other open source OSes typically run great on MacBooks, and give them new life. Try it out!
  - jwdunne 5y ago
    Exact same situation. Couldn’t upgrade macOS whatsoever and it was slow as anything. Whacked Ubuntu on there and it’s running as good as new, outside of slow disk reads.
    - amatecha 5y ago
      Yeah! I actually dropped an old secondhand SSD in mine and it makes a huge difference. You'd never guess the machine is over a decade old other than the slightly bulkier form-factor and mediocre resolution, haha (and in fact I actually really like the keyboard compared to newer models!)
      - handrous 5y ago
        The newer butterfly keyboards got all the bad press (for good reason) but a while back I had to use one of the early aluminum models from when they were still thick enough to hold disc drives, for the first time in many years, and damn, I'd forgotten just how much worse the original slim driveless models' keyboards were, than those. Those were basically perfect, for a laptop.
        amatecha 5y ago
        Yeah that's exactly what this 2009 model is, the nice thick keys that actually move quite some distance when you press them. So satisfying and tactile! Now when I try the latest MacBooks in an Apple Store it's like typing on nothing. Very strange feeling.
        math-dev 5y ago
        The trick I find is to type very softly, then its an amazing wonderful experience. I haven’t used my MB keyboard for a while so when I went back it felt very jarring because I lost my soft touch. Have to retrain myself
        hallway_monitor 5y ago
        I know it sounds crazy but you will get used to it if you use it for a day. I'm picky about keyboards and I thought I would hate it, but after a couple years I type as comfortably and quickly as I do with the cherry browns on my Das Keyboard
- Diederich 5y ago
  Yup. I've had a lot of luck putting Ubuntu on older Macbooks for quite a few years now. Works quite well.
  - zsmi 5y ago
    In my experience all software seems to slow down over time. Firstly, my expectations of "fast" change, but also all the various data structures a system needs to run grow and complicate. In addition we ask more of our software over time and run more of it. For many, not even Ubuntu is immune. Hence articles like this: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-1804 https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-1804
    - alwaysjoe 5y ago
      Half of these tips have nothing to do with Ubuntu. Changing your SSD will do wonders for your Windows installation as well...
- mehphp 5y ago
  Yep, I'm typing this on a '15 macbook pro with PopOS on it.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- DanTheManPR 5y ago
  A fresh install of Catalina was unusably slow on my 2010 Macbook pro (to say nothing of even trying Big Sur!). I had gone back and forth between MacOS and Linux on this machine over the years, and the Linux experience has been improving in comparison. Especially now that some apps are falling out of compatibility with High Sierra (the last version that ran acceptably on this hardware). And it's not as though you need to use a lightweight distro; regular Ubuntu works fine on old hardware. The focus on keeping everything lean and performant, while maintaining compatibility with older hardware, is a great advantage of modern linux distos. Linux hasn't replaced my desktop workstation OS quite yet, but the last few years have definitely been "Year of the Linux Laptop" for me.
jppope 5y ago
Apple is the master of planned obsolescence.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  I see people say this but I can’t see that it it true. This current lockdown in New Zealand has 2011 and 2013 Macbook airs in daily use and they are working perfectly. There is an iPad 2 in daily use also. Those devices have had hard lives. I haven’t got any other electronics with anything approaching this longevity (unless you count espresso hardware). Presumably others are having a very different experience.
  - Tarsul 5y ago
    i basically can't use my ipad mini from 2012 anymore because the apps in the app store usually need a newer OS version than possible. A laptop from 2012 with Windows (whatever version) wouldn't have these problems whatsoever. I know it's another device type but it shouldn't really matter, both are computing devices.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      There are absolutely windows apps that won't run on your 2012 laptop too, it's just less likely you would run into them. Lack of DX 10 and higher APIs as well as lack of things like AVX instructions will prevent certain applications from running at all.
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      That's a 3rd party developer problem, not Apple problem. It's like blaming GM for not making leaded gasoline for your 1950s car.
  - ksec 5y ago
    Because you happen to be using the good old Apple's MacBook. I mean a 2011 MacBook Air could still be sold for $120 2nd hand. 2016 Macbook has the worst reselling price out of all MacBook History. I think this tells a bit.
gdulli 5y ago
I got an iPhone in 2008 and 2 years later an OS update rendered it too slow to be usable. It annoyed me so much that it became the last Apple product I ever bought. Every non-Apple smartphone I've had since then has remained usable until I was ready to replace it on my own timeline, even after as long as 4 years.
- ribosometronome 5y ago
  What non-Apple smartphone were you getting in 2010 that received 4 years of updates? My experience at the time was essentially no updates, or relying on custom ROMs for that sort of thing.
  - gdulli 5y ago
    I think it was the Galaxy S4 that I had for 4 years, then the S8 for 3. I don't remember if/when updates stopped. I probably only had the phone I bought in 2010 for 2 years because back then they were still subsidizing new phone purchases at the 2 year mark.
riffic 5y ago
you know, if expanding batteries were so problematic, why the heck does Apple glue them into the topcase?
- spullara 5y ago
  To make the computer smaller and lighter.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    I refuse to accept that as an answer as to why the battery is glued in. It's just laziness by apple, there's is literally zero reason to use glue to hold the battery, and it means that if you want to ever replace it yourself you end up looking at a 50-steps long guide on ifixit where one of them is pouring solvent behind the battery - it's insane. Just have a system of tabs holding the battery packs in place, glue is not needed.
    - Bud 5y ago
      No, it's not laziness. Nothing about the internal design of the Mac is due to "laziness". Apple has clearly decided that the battery is better held in place by adhesive than by a "system of tabs". This could easily be for durability or safety reasons. It's a big, big problem if a battery gets damaged. If your argument is that the replacement process has too many steps, this argument fails: you'd save at most one step (out of your claimed 50) if the adhesive were not there. Because the battery is not terribly accessible.
      - gambiting 5y ago
        >>If your argument is that the replacement process has too many steps, this argument fails: you'd save at most one step (out of your claimed 50) if the adhesive were not there. Thank you for making an assumption on my behalf, but that's actually not my argument - I do have an issue with the fact that replacing the battery requires pouring solvent behind the case, as the guide clearly warns you that if you mess this up you will damage other components and the screen. That's an unacceptable process for a battery replacement, I don't mind the disassembly of everything else to get to there. I will repeat myself - there is absolutely no reason to use glue in a case as tight as that of a modern MacBook.
m_st 5y ago
I agree, same with my MBP at home. And I have the same issue with my 2015 XPS 15 at work which first was really fast, especially with Windows 10 and now feels slow for everything. Even though it is still running "Windows 10" (with Windows Update). Changed for the new XPS 15 with the new i7-11800H and couldn't be happier though.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bobbylarrybobby 5y ago
Also have the 2015 and Big Sur was also a shitshow for me performance wise (no serious bugs otherwise though). Updated to the Monterrey beta and it’s back to silky smooth. No idea what they screwed up in Big Sur, but it seems like they fixed it.
everyone 5y ago
It seems like they intentionally throttle older models as a feature of the update.. They do it on their phones at least. https://www.phonearena.com/news/how-to-make-iphone-faster_id134530 https://www.phonearena.com/news/how-to-make-iphone-faster_id...
- whoisburbansky 5y ago
  Your linked article is entirely about the phone. Do you have any sources about them intentionally throttling older computer models?
- Bud 5y ago
  No, they do not, and that's an outrageous, silly, completely unsupported accusation. Apple also does not "intentionally throttle" older iPhones as a "feature of the update" for some sort of nefarious bullshit "planned obsolescence" reason. The opposite is true: Apple reduces the clock speed very very slightly on older iPhones, so that they can be used LONGER and have a LONGER service life. The alternative would be, when the battery is starting to lose capacity, just having the iPhone randomly shut down. This would quite obviously be an inferior outcome for the user, so Apple thoughtfully checks for reduced battery performance in aging devices and reduces clock speed slightly to save power if necessary. Apple's reward for this? Literally YEARS of bullshit, bad-faith, poorly-researched lying stories in the tech media about how they are supposedly "forcing" users to buy new devices, when in fact, they are enabling iPhones to last even longer. Anyone with any clue knows, of course, that iPhones receive many years more software updates than competing products, and are also in service for years longer than competing products, but somehow, this BS narrative has still taken hold, likely because many folks are lazy, desperate for any excuse to slam Apple, credulous, and don't really care what the truth is.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - PolCPP 5y ago
    Because someone decided it was better to be opaque on the iPhone and do that than do the same thing they had on macs and throw a warning when the battery was on bad state. At least all the drama ended with having a warning and a toggle for battery status.
dudul 5y ago
That's funny I recently upgraded a 2013 mbp and it's a bit faster now.
- wellthisisgreat 5y ago
  To Big Sur?
  - dudul 5y ago
    Yes and I find it snappier than before.
wallscratch 5y ago
I assume apple does this intentionally :)
user3939382 5y ago
You have to poke around but there are ways to disable the update badges and checks, eg: defaults delete com.apple.preferences.softwareupdate LatestMajorOSSeenByUserBundleIdentifier && softwareupdate --list
konart 5y ago
Sometimes I feel like an alien with my late 2013 MBPr working all the same with the latest os.
- riversflow 5y ago
  Yeah. Same boat, mine (15" with dGPU, base spec) just keeps chugging. Never felt like an OS update affected it negatively. I've often wondered if it has to do with the Crystal Well L4 cache they put on these machines.
- akg_67 5y ago
  Yeah, same here. I am using 2012 rMBP and usually upgrade OS and update quickly after release. No significant issues with the machine. It is still chugging along on Catalina. Only issue in last 10 years was replacing battery once. But I am waiting for Mx version of 15”+ MBP to upgrade, just need more storage and memory at this point for heavy duty work.
- Tagbert 5y ago
  Yes, 2014 MBP on Big Sur. No performances issues. I suspect that some of these cases of slowdown are a result of something getting messed up in the update or some non-standard process that is getting bogged down on Big Sur.
limeblack 5y ago
If you have an Apple store near by they'll set it up for dual boot. If you don't mind do it yourself partition and install the installer to thumb drive. I don't condone piracy but you can download the old installers(get creative) md5 checksum it and simply reinstall the old OS. I am still running a 2012 macbook pro for video editing with final cut pro.
- officeplant 5y ago
  You don't really have to pirate anything. Apple provides a guide for creating USB installers. Used it to bring my 2012 Mini back to Mojave recently. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372
twic 5y ago
I had this problem with my MacBook Pro, so i upgraded it to Linux. It's an early 2011 model, and still going strong!
dredmorbius 5y ago
My understanding is that Sceptre/Meltdown mitigations significantly slow processors due to reduced speculative execution, and perhaps more integrity tests against attacks. That's something that's near-universal across AMD64 / Intel architectures, regardless of OS. https://www.howtogeek.com/339559/how-to-stop-the-meltdown-and-spectre-patches-from-slowing-down-your-pc/ https://www.howtogeek.com/339559/how-to-stop-the-meltdown-an... One view is to blame the mitigations. Another is to recognise that the previous performance was itself a mirage, created by ignoring the risks presented by speculative execution (which had been long voiced, and long ignored by major CPU vendors).
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Is it possible to disable these mitigations on Mac?
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    It would be exceedingly unwise to do so.
    - paulryanrogers 5y ago
      Even on a single user system which doesn't run untrusted software?
      - dredmorbius 5y ago
        In the unlikely event that you're absolutely confident that's true, you should also be competent enough to find the answer on your own. If the device is network-connected at all, or is exposed to any external devices or storage (drives, USB or other devices), it is running untrusted software.
      - bzzzt 5y ago
        As long as you keep Javascript disabled in your browser...
      - 5y ago
00deadbeef 5y ago
Every MacBook I’ve ever owned has ended up with a swollen battery
- eric_h 5y ago
  I've "owned" (they were either mine or belonged to the company i worked for) many macbooks since they were ibooks and powerbooks and I've only had one end up with a swollen battery (a 2015 13" macbook pro) #anecdata edit: sample size is approximately 12 machines since the ibook was introduced
- riffic 5y ago
  same here. It's a flaw inherent in the battery chemistry. Apple knows it happens, they should make it easy to swap batteries out when they expire.
fouc 5y ago
You should downgrade it back to MacOS 10.x version range. I'm still on 10.13 myself, I don't feel any strong urges to upgrade to Mojave or Catalina. If I stopped using homebrew and started using macports or pkgsrc I'd probably be even less bothered by needing to upgrade. (homebrew is pretty shitty with older OSes) I'm also on a 2015 MBP that's still going strong. It's snappy and I'm happy. I upgraded the SSD last year, and that made a dramatic difference as well. Upgraded to 1TB, write speed jumped from 282 MB/s to 1321 MB/s, read speed jumped from 964 MB/s to 1505 MB/s. (2015 is the last year that Macbook Pros had upgradeable SSDs)
- tistoon 5y ago
  I would like to upgrade my disk while keeping the OS version (clone?). Could you please tell me how did you do?
  - fouc 5y ago
    I cloned to a USB drive, swapped the SSDs, and then booted up with the USB drive, and cloned back to the new SSD. -- You will need an NVMe SSD adapter similar to this https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2015-MacBook/dp/B01CWWAENG https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2015-Mac... There's a whole thread writeup here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-mac... -- You can also download old versions of MacOS installers. I forget the link to the easier scripts/installers, there's a High Sierra one at http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ Personally I ended up using ./installinstallmacos.py from https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts to grab the catalog contents and then temporarily blocked swcdn.apple.com in /etc/hosts, and then served the /content/ directory so that swcdn.apple.com/content/ was pointed at 127.0.0.1/content (I used python here in the parent directory of /content/) > sudo python -m SimpleHTTPServer 80 and then I opened the High Sierra MacOS app store specific link to make it download & assemble the .dmg file properly Open in Safari to ensure it launches App Store https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id1246284741?ls=1&mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id12462847... Can use the same approach to grab other versions of MacOS downloaders from apple too if you look up the app store links for it and then serve the catalog locally I guess.
wellthisisgreat 5y ago
I have an MBP2013 with Catalina and it’s been smooth sailing, good to know I shouldn’t upgrade to Mojave even
ksec 5y ago
If you dont upgrade the OS they cant claim their installation rate and push their new API along with other API depreciation. So generally speaking I am pro OS upgrade. But I do think they somehow turn off certain optimisation for older devices. It is the same with iPhone as well. i.e New OS is only optimised for current set / latest devices.
rapind 5y ago
I would go one step further and say only give us security updates and bug fixes full stop. Every update I’m less satisfied with my OS. I just want it to run other things and stay the hell out of my way.
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
"Apple should stop nagging you to upgrade the OS if your hardware wasn't built to support the newer versions." When Apple introduced OSX I refused to upgrade a G4; I stayed on OS9. I never connected that computer to the internet, it was only used as a DAW. This "upgrade the OS" nonsense is an old trick. Microsoft made it infamous. I had Windows computers back in the day, late 90s, where I only upgraded the hardware, not the OS. This went in direct opposition to all marketing, "technical advice" and hype. These computers were always much faster. Hardware keeps getting faster and cheaper. Software keeps getting larger and slower. Upgrades are almost never PRIMARILY for the user's benefit. Developers will never admit it. Upgrades are what developers want, not users. Then they try to convince people that everyone should want these "improvements". Not that I know what other users want, but I want stuff that works reliably, does not slow down and does not need constant fixing. I prefer software that stays the same over software that is constantly changing. I like software that keeps doing what I installed it to do and nothing more.
- blagie 5y ago
  I would love nineties Debian, with modern hardware support and security patches.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    So basically void linux plus trinity (TDE) or mate for the continuation of kde 3 or gnome 2. There is an issue to package TDE for void and it apparantly can be built. https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/19243 https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/19243
    - blagie 5y ago
      I used things like twm or fvwm at the time. in 2021, xmonad works well. My concern, though, is that: 1) I've never seen modern "lightweight" distros work well. There isn't critical mass, and it's always my wifi or bluetooth or something. In the nineties, there were Linux HOWTOs. In 2021, there's always some kludge written by Ubuntu wrapping some kludge written by Red Hat wrapping some half-baked API and no documentation. 2) The instant you run an app, you lose all the upside. Firefox or Chrome can eventually eat up all available memory. Most apps are super-bloated, e.g. written in JavaScript/electron, and distributed in some containerized VM or some nonsense like that. If you skim out the 5% between apps and iron, it just doesn't help much. 3) Dependencies. If you want Bluetooth sound.... Is void better? Or does it somehow address this?
cmurf 5y ago
Yeah I'm over macOS, since 10.12, having used Apple OS's since System 6, sufferung years of not ready for prime time OSX but settled into that regime for almost 20 years. And now its Fedora Linux #1, Windows a distant #2, and then macOS. The churn in macOS is annoying. A few year old version can't run the latest TeamViewer, I'm running into more of that now where on Windows 10 that's not even a thing (yet, maybe there will be a breakthrough with Windows 11). shrug
- robertoandred 5y ago
  Sounds like a TeamViewer problem.
gkanai 5y ago
> When I upgraded my 2015 to Big Sur last year, it essentially became unusable because it ran so slowly. Thank you for this. I haven't upgraded to Big Sur and now I never will.
vondur 5y ago
This sucks. From the original release of MacOS 10 until 10.6 or so, every version felt faster to me than the previous version. I looked forward to the next release. It felt like getting a new computer.
Tagbert 5y ago
There must be something else going wrong with your MBP. You might want to wipe it and reset things up. I’m running a 2014 MBP with Big Sur and it is no slower than on Catalina.

amelius 5y ago

Put Linux on it.

amatecha 5y ago
Yeah, I got a 2009 MacBook Pro for free (or like $10 or something, I forget), and it's now running the latest FreeBSD. BSD, GNU/Linux and other open source OSes typically run great on MacBooks, and give them new life. Try it out!
- jwdunne 5y ago
  Exact same situation. Couldn’t upgrade macOS whatsoever and it was slow as anything. Whacked Ubuntu on there and it’s running as good as new, outside of slow disk reads.
  - amatecha 5y ago
    Yeah! I actually dropped an old secondhand SSD in mine and it makes a huge difference. You'd never guess the machine is over a decade old other than the slightly bulkier form-factor and mediocre resolution, haha (and in fact I actually really like the keyboard compared to newer models!)
    - handrous 5y ago
      The newer butterfly keyboards got all the bad press (for good reason) but a while back I had to use one of the early aluminum models from when they were still thick enough to hold disc drives, for the first time in many years, and damn, I'd forgotten just how much worse the original slim driveless models' keyboards were, than those. Those were basically perfect, for a laptop.
      - amatecha 5y ago
        Yeah that's exactly what this 2009 model is, the nice thick keys that actually move quite some distance when you press them. So satisfying and tactile! Now when I try the latest MacBooks in an Apple Store it's like typing on nothing. Very strange feeling.
        math-dev 5y ago
        The trick I find is to type very softly, then its an amazing wonderful experience. I haven’t used my MB keyboard for a while so when I went back it felt very jarring because I lost my soft touch. Have to retrain myself
        hallway_monitor 5y ago
        I know it sounds crazy but you will get used to it if you use it for a day. I'm picky about keyboards and I thought I would hate it, but after a couple years I type as comfortably and quickly as I do with the cherry browns on my Das Keyboard
Diederich 5y ago
Yup. I've had a lot of luck putting Ubuntu on older Macbooks for quite a few years now. Works quite well.
- zsmi 5y ago
  In my experience all software seems to slow down over time. Firstly, my expectations of "fast" change, but also all the various data structures a system needs to run grow and complicate. In addition we ask more of our software over time and run more of it. For many, not even Ubuntu is immune. Hence articles like this: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-1804 https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-speed-up-ubuntu-1804
  - alwaysjoe 5y ago
    Half of these tips have nothing to do with Ubuntu. Changing your SSD will do wonders for your Windows installation as well...
mehphp 5y ago
Yep, I'm typing this on a '15 macbook pro with PopOS on it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
DanTheManPR 5y ago
A fresh install of Catalina was unusably slow on my 2010 Macbook pro (to say nothing of even trying Big Sur!). I had gone back and forth between MacOS and Linux on this machine over the years, and the Linux experience has been improving in comparison. Especially now that some apps are falling out of compatibility with High Sierra (the last version that ran acceptably on this hardware). And it's not as though you need to use a lightweight distro; regular Ubuntu works fine on old hardware. The focus on keeping everything lean and performant, while maintaining compatibility with older hardware, is a great advantage of modern linux distos. Linux hasn't replaced my desktop workstation OS quite yet, but the last few years have definitely been "Year of the Linux Laptop" for me.

jppope 5y ago

Apple is the master of planned obsolescence.

lostlogin 5y ago
I see people say this but I can’t see that it it true. This current lockdown in New Zealand has 2011 and 2013 Macbook airs in daily use and they are working perfectly. There is an iPad 2 in daily use also. Those devices have had hard lives. I haven’t got any other electronics with anything approaching this longevity (unless you count espresso hardware). Presumably others are having a very different experience.
- Tarsul 5y ago
  i basically can't use my ipad mini from 2012 anymore because the apps in the app store usually need a newer OS version than possible. A laptop from 2012 with Windows (whatever version) wouldn't have these problems whatsoever. I know it's another device type but it shouldn't really matter, both are computing devices.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    There are absolutely windows apps that won't run on your 2012 laptop too, it's just less likely you would run into them. Lack of DX 10 and higher APIs as well as lack of things like AVX instructions will prevent certain applications from running at all.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    That's a 3rd party developer problem, not Apple problem. It's like blaming GM for not making leaded gasoline for your 1950s car.
- ksec 5y ago
  Because you happen to be using the good old Apple's MacBook. I mean a 2011 MacBook Air could still be sold for $120 2nd hand. 2016 Macbook has the worst reselling price out of all MacBook History. I think this tells a bit.

gdulli 5y ago

I got an iPhone in 2008 and 2 years later an OS update rendered it too slow to be usable. It annoyed me so much that it became the last Apple product I ever bought. Every non-Apple smartphone I've had since then has remained usable until I was ready to replace it on my own timeline, even after as long as 4 years.

ribosometronome 5y ago
What non-Apple smartphone were you getting in 2010 that received 4 years of updates? My experience at the time was essentially no updates, or relying on custom ROMs for that sort of thing.
- gdulli 5y ago
  I think it was the Galaxy S4 that I had for 4 years, then the S8 for 3. I don't remember if/when updates stopped. I probably only had the phone I bought in 2010 for 2 years because back then they were still subsidizing new phone purchases at the 2 year mark.

riffic 5y ago

you know, if expanding batteries were so problematic, why the heck does Apple glue them into the topcase?

spullara 5y ago
To make the computer smaller and lighter.
- gambiting 5y ago
  I refuse to accept that as an answer as to why the battery is glued in. It's just laziness by apple, there's is literally zero reason to use glue to hold the battery, and it means that if you want to ever replace it yourself you end up looking at a 50-steps long guide on ifixit where one of them is pouring solvent behind the battery - it's insane. Just have a system of tabs holding the battery packs in place, glue is not needed.
  - Bud 5y ago
    No, it's not laziness. Nothing about the internal design of the Mac is due to "laziness". Apple has clearly decided that the battery is better held in place by adhesive than by a "system of tabs". This could easily be for durability or safety reasons. It's a big, big problem if a battery gets damaged. If your argument is that the replacement process has too many steps, this argument fails: you'd save at most one step (out of your claimed 50) if the adhesive were not there. Because the battery is not terribly accessible.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      >>If your argument is that the replacement process has too many steps, this argument fails: you'd save at most one step (out of your claimed 50) if the adhesive were not there. Thank you for making an assumption on my behalf, but that's actually not my argument - I do have an issue with the fact that replacing the battery requires pouring solvent behind the case, as the guide clearly warns you that if you mess this up you will damage other components and the screen. That's an unacceptable process for a battery replacement, I don't mind the disassembly of everything else to get to there. I will repeat myself - there is absolutely no reason to use glue in a case as tight as that of a modern MacBook.

m_st 5y ago

I agree, same with my MBP at home. And I have the same issue with my 2015 XPS 15 at work which first was really fast, especially with Windows 10 and now feels slow for everything. Even though it is still running "Windows 10" (with Windows Update). Changed for the new XPS 15 with the new i7-11800H and couldn't be happier though.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bobbylarrybobby 5y ago

Also have the 2015 and Big Sur was also a shitshow for me performance wise (no serious bugs otherwise though). Updated to the Monterrey beta and it’s back to silky smooth. No idea what they screwed up in Big Sur, but it seems like they fixed it.

everyone 5y ago

It seems like they intentionally throttle older models as a feature of the update.. They do it on their phones at least. https://www.phonearena.com/news/how-to-make-iphone-faster_id134530 https://www.phonearena.com/news/how-to-make-iphone-faster_id...

whoisburbansky 5y ago
Your linked article is entirely about the phone. Do you have any sources about them intentionally throttling older computer models?
Bud 5y ago
No, they do not, and that's an outrageous, silly, completely unsupported accusation. Apple also does not "intentionally throttle" older iPhones as a "feature of the update" for some sort of nefarious bullshit "planned obsolescence" reason. The opposite is true: Apple reduces the clock speed very very slightly on older iPhones, so that they can be used LONGER and have a LONGER service life. The alternative would be, when the battery is starting to lose capacity, just having the iPhone randomly shut down. This would quite obviously be an inferior outcome for the user, so Apple thoughtfully checks for reduced battery performance in aging devices and reduces clock speed slightly to save power if necessary. Apple's reward for this? Literally YEARS of bullshit, bad-faith, poorly-researched lying stories in the tech media about how they are supposedly "forcing" users to buy new devices, when in fact, they are enabling iPhones to last even longer. Anyone with any clue knows, of course, that iPhones receive many years more software updates than competing products, and are also in service for years longer than competing products, but somehow, this BS narrative has still taken hold, likely because many folks are lazy, desperate for any excuse to slam Apple, credulous, and don't really care what the truth is.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- PolCPP 5y ago
  Because someone decided it was better to be opaque on the iPhone and do that than do the same thing they had on macs and throw a warning when the battery was on bad state. At least all the drama ended with having a warning and a toggle for battery status.

dudul 5y ago

That's funny I recently upgraded a 2013 mbp and it's a bit faster now.

wellthisisgreat 5y ago
To Big Sur?
- dudul 5y ago
  Yes and I find it snappier than before.

wallscratch 5y ago

I assume apple does this intentionally :)

user3939382 5y ago

You have to poke around but there are ways to disable the update badges and checks, eg: defaults delete com.apple.preferences.softwareupdate LatestMajorOSSeenByUserBundleIdentifier && softwareupdate --list

konart 5y ago

Sometimes I feel like an alien with my late 2013 MBPr working all the same with the latest os.

riversflow 5y ago
Yeah. Same boat, mine (15" with dGPU, base spec) just keeps chugging. Never felt like an OS update affected it negatively. I've often wondered if it has to do with the Crystal Well L4 cache they put on these machines.
akg_67 5y ago
Yeah, same here. I am using 2012 rMBP and usually upgrade OS and update quickly after release. No significant issues with the machine. It is still chugging along on Catalina. Only issue in last 10 years was replacing battery once. But I am waiting for Mx version of 15”+ MBP to upgrade, just need more storage and memory at this point for heavy duty work.
Tagbert 5y ago
Yes, 2014 MBP on Big Sur. No performances issues. I suspect that some of these cases of slowdown are a result of something getting messed up in the update or some non-standard process that is getting bogged down on Big Sur.

limeblack 5y ago

If you have an Apple store near by they'll set it up for dual boot. If you don't mind do it yourself partition and install the installer to thumb drive. I don't condone piracy but you can download the old installers(get creative) md5 checksum it and simply reinstall the old OS. I am still running a 2012 macbook pro for video editing with final cut pro.

officeplant 5y ago
You don't really have to pirate anything. Apple provides a guide for creating USB installers. Used it to bring my 2012 Mini back to Mojave recently. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

twic 5y ago

I had this problem with my MacBook Pro, so i upgraded it to Linux. It's an early 2011 model, and still going strong!

dredmorbius 5y ago

My understanding is that Sceptre/Meltdown mitigations significantly slow processors due to reduced speculative execution, and perhaps more integrity tests against attacks. That's something that's near-universal across AMD64 / Intel architectures, regardless of OS. https://www.howtogeek.com/339559/how-to-stop-the-meltdown-and-spectre-patches-from-slowing-down-your-pc/ https://www.howtogeek.com/339559/how-to-stop-the-meltdown-an... One view is to blame the mitigations. Another is to recognise that the previous performance was itself a mirage, created by ignoring the risks presented by speculative execution (which had been long voiced, and long ignored by major CPU vendors).

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Is it possible to disable these mitigations on Mac?
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  It would be exceedingly unwise to do so.
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    Even on a single user system which doesn't run untrusted software?
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      In the unlikely event that you're absolutely confident that's true, you should also be competent enough to find the answer on your own. If the device is network-connected at all, or is exposed to any external devices or storage (drives, USB or other devices), it is running untrusted software.
    - bzzzt 5y ago
      As long as you keep Javascript disabled in your browser...
    - 5y ago

00deadbeef 5y ago

Every MacBook I’ve ever owned has ended up with a swollen battery

eric_h 5y ago
I've "owned" (they were either mine or belonged to the company i worked for) many macbooks since they were ibooks and powerbooks and I've only had one end up with a swollen battery (a 2015 13" macbook pro) #anecdata edit: sample size is approximately 12 machines since the ibook was introduced
riffic 5y ago
same here. It's a flaw inherent in the battery chemistry. Apple knows it happens, they should make it easy to swap batteries out when they expire.

fouc 5y ago

You should downgrade it back to MacOS 10.x version range. I'm still on 10.13 myself, I don't feel any strong urges to upgrade to Mojave or Catalina. If I stopped using homebrew and started using macports or pkgsrc I'd probably be even less bothered by needing to upgrade. (homebrew is pretty shitty with older OSes) I'm also on a 2015 MBP that's still going strong. It's snappy and I'm happy. I upgraded the SSD last year, and that made a dramatic difference as well. Upgraded to 1TB, write speed jumped from 282 MB/s to 1321 MB/s, read speed jumped from 964 MB/s to 1505 MB/s. (2015 is the last year that Macbook Pros had upgradeable SSDs)

tistoon 5y ago
I would like to upgrade my disk while keeping the OS version (clone?). Could you please tell me how did you do?
- fouc 5y ago
  I cloned to a USB drive, swapped the SSDs, and then booted up with the USB drive, and cloned back to the new SSD. -- You will need an NVMe SSD adapter similar to this https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2015-MacBook/dp/B01CWWAENG https://www.amazon.com/Sintech-Adapter-Upgrade-2013-2015-Mac... There's a whole thread writeup here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-macbook-pro-ssd-to-m-2-nvme.2034976/ https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrading-2013-2014-mac... -- You can also download old versions of MacOS installers. I forget the link to the easier scripts/installers, there's a High Sierra one at http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/ Personally I ended up using ./installinstallmacos.py from https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts https://github.com/munki/macadmin-scripts to grab the catalog contents and then temporarily blocked swcdn.apple.com in /etc/hosts, and then served the /content/ directory so that swcdn.apple.com/content/ was pointed at 127.0.0.1/content (I used python here in the parent directory of /content/) > sudo python -m SimpleHTTPServer 80 and then I opened the High Sierra MacOS app store specific link to make it download & assemble the .dmg file properly Open in Safari to ensure it launches App Store https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id1246284741?ls=1&mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-high-sierra/id12462847... Can use the same approach to grab other versions of MacOS downloaders from apple too if you look up the app store links for it and then serve the catalog locally I guess.

wellthisisgreat 5y ago

I have an MBP2013 with Catalina and it’s been smooth sailing, good to know I shouldn’t upgrade to Mojave even

ksec 5y ago

If you dont upgrade the OS they cant claim their installation rate and push their new API along with other API depreciation. So generally speaking I am pro OS upgrade. But I do think they somehow turn off certain optimisation for older devices. It is the same with iPhone as well. i.e New OS is only optimised for current set / latest devices.

rapind 5y ago

I would go one step further and say only give us security updates and bug fixes full stop. Every update I’m less satisfied with my OS. I just want it to run other things and stay the hell out of my way.

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

"Apple should stop nagging you to upgrade the OS if your hardware wasn't built to support the newer versions." When Apple introduced OSX I refused to upgrade a G4; I stayed on OS9. I never connected that computer to the internet, it was only used as a DAW. This "upgrade the OS" nonsense is an old trick. Microsoft made it infamous. I had Windows computers back in the day, late 90s, where I only upgraded the hardware, not the OS. This went in direct opposition to all marketing, "technical advice" and hype. These computers were always much faster. Hardware keeps getting faster and cheaper. Software keeps getting larger and slower. Upgrades are almost never PRIMARILY for the user's benefit. Developers will never admit it. Upgrades are what developers want, not users. Then they try to convince people that everyone should want these "improvements". Not that I know what other users want, but I want stuff that works reliably, does not slow down and does not need constant fixing. I prefer software that stays the same over software that is constantly changing. I like software that keeps doing what I installed it to do and nothing more.

blagie 5y ago
I would love nineties Debian, with modern hardware support and security patches.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  So basically void linux plus trinity (TDE) or mate for the continuation of kde 3 or gnome 2. There is an issue to package TDE for void and it apparantly can be built. https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/19243 https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/19243
  - blagie 5y ago
    I used things like twm or fvwm at the time. in 2021, xmonad works well. My concern, though, is that: 1) I've never seen modern "lightweight" distros work well. There isn't critical mass, and it's always my wifi or bluetooth or something. In the nineties, there were Linux HOWTOs. In 2021, there's always some kludge written by Ubuntu wrapping some kludge written by Red Hat wrapping some half-baked API and no documentation. 2) The instant you run an app, you lose all the upside. Firefox or Chrome can eventually eat up all available memory. Most apps are super-bloated, e.g. written in JavaScript/electron, and distributed in some containerized VM or some nonsense like that. If you skim out the 5% between apps and iron, it just doesn't help much. 3) Dependencies. If you want Bluetooth sound.... Is void better? Or does it somehow address this?

cmurf 5y ago

Yeah I'm over macOS, since 10.12, having used Apple OS's since System 6, sufferung years of not ready for prime time OSX but settled into that regime for almost 20 years. And now its Fedora Linux #1, Windows a distant #2, and then macOS. The churn in macOS is annoying. A few year old version can't run the latest TeamViewer, I'm running into more of that now where on Windows 10 that's not even a thing (yet, maybe there will be a breakthrough with Windows 11). shrug

robertoandred 5y ago
Sounds like a TeamViewer problem.

gkanai 5y ago

> When I upgraded my 2015 to Big Sur last year, it essentially became unusable because it ran so slowly. Thank you for this. I haven't upgraded to Big Sur and now I never will.

vondur 5y ago

This sucks. From the original release of MacOS 10 until 10.6 or so, every version felt faster to me than the previous version. I looked forward to the next release. It felt like getting a new computer.

Tagbert 5y ago

There must be something else going wrong with your MBP. You might want to wipe it and reset things up. I’m running a 2014 MBP with Big Sur and it is no slower than on Catalina.